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Hi,

I am experimenting now with smaller case setups but have much larger cases for most modules and the challenge is to have enough room for a meaningful setup while still being user friendly. Have you considered a Tiptop mantis case? That would give you two nice wide rows with enough space for a good basic setup and yet remain portable. For my portable rig, what I am planning is two cases: a Doepfer 6u suitcase that gives 168HP for larger modules and a small Intellijel 4u palette case. Even then, I still need to plan carefully and cannot fit a lot in that space. I dislike 2hp sized modules as the knobs tend to be difficult to use in patches. Case in point, my 2hp Cat module while fun is difficult to manipulate when fully patched. A slightly larger 6hp sized module is much more comfortable and easier to handle for me with my fat fingers lol.

Hi guys, an update, I did get a Keystep Pro -- after the above recommendations and some research into that, it seemed like a great fit for my uses.

@Ronin1973, per your point above, its not that I want to routinely do polyphony in Eurorack, but that I want to send arpeggiated chord info through (mono) Eurorack. Mainly the reason that I really enjoy chord to arp (mono) in my DAW and I want to be able to have the same fun in Eurorack plus the fun of Eurorack sound design. So the use case here is basically setting up a gnarly modular patch with plenty of CV shifting the sound, and then having KSP hooked up so I can enjoy playing the patch with powerful arp and other relevant live controls.

Wish I'd found KSP earlier, it seems like a great fit. Now I just have to find some time to dig in! This weekend hopefully...

Thanks all!

@farkas and @Ronin1973, I hear you re: Xodes.PV44. I just saw the PV44 recently and thought it was neat and another option worth considering along these lines. I'm not in any rush to get a PV44 because i) it is pretty big HP wise ii) documentation for it is poor so its still slightly mysterious iii) there do seem to be plenty other usable alternatives.

and suddenly I have a good use of my Frap Tools 321 :)
Thanks @BrumoD I was able to run the signal from my BSP through 321 and now get a nice smooth piano sound
-- jb61264

I think... the Disting can analyze the maximum voltage of a gate and derive velocity/layer switching from it. I believe that's on page 34 of the Disting EX manual. I think 5v is the maximum it's looking for. So yes, the amplitude (voltage) of your gate is relevant.

Any multi-lane sequencer should be able to pull this off. The Mimetic Digitalis was mentioned. It advances to the next step based on a trigger input.

Another option is to use a Sequencer that can change what step it's outputting based on an input CV voltage rather than a trigger. Ornament & Crime has a dual sequencer that can respond in this manner (Sequins mode).

+1 for everything @Ronin1973 said!

I believe Pittsburgh cases do not use M3 screws (they’re non-metric). Check the specs on their site. They are good about responding to emails too.
I bought screws for a Pittsburgh case a while ago. I have silver and black. I have (I think) 100 of each, minus only a couple, and can send them to you for a very reasonable price. I no longer need them as I went to a different case before using them. Message me if interested.
Kind regards,
John

I'd buy a Disting Mk4 or the EX plus the Beads. They are great in small cases. The Disting has a bit crusher mode built in. So Beads plus a Disting might be a decent alternative if you really want that feature. Plus you get an shizzle-ton of other features when you're not wanting to use a bit crusher.

I'd buy a line level to synth level (Eurorack) converter. Then I'd buy a traditional hardware synth. MIDI does polyphony VERY well. CV does not. A Keystep Pro or Eurorack sequencer with a separate MIDI OUT would be my go to.

Once you're done mucking around with polyphonic sounds within Eurorack, you've spent a ton of money for functionality that's usually pretty weak. So, in my opinion, why try to get X to replicate Y badly when you can just patch in something that does Y already?

It's all about trade-offs. Modules that are one-knob-one-function are much easier to understand in terms of signal flow and learning curve. But they tend to take up more space and are more expensive.

Micro-sized modules (think 2HP) seem to make a lot of sense in being able to pack more functionality into less space. But once you tweak a few 2HP wiggly plastic knobs, you'll just start hating them for anything that requires a bit of fine and careful adjustment. They also tend to be deeper in order to fit into 2HP. A whole bunch of sad comes to town when your brand new module bottoms out in your case and doesn't fit where you want it to or not at all. Also, packing a bunch of 2HP modules together generates a LOT of heat in a small space and you can easily put more modules into a case than your power supply can handle. Over-taxing your power supply can lead to some costly damage.

Modules that are feature packed tend to have a steep learning curve or require A LOT of memorization to be able to use fluidly. Pack a bunch of those into a case and you'll forever be pulling out the instruction manual and reading/rereading things... INSTEAD OF MAKING MUSIC.

Stopping to read a manual is a serious buzz-kill when you've got a hot patch going. Memorizing functionality varies by person. Some are good at it, some are bad. No judgment... but know yourself. I'm bad at it and using modules like those from Mutable Instruments do not work for me. Too many combinations of button presses, LED colors etc. They are fantastic modules. I'm just not good with them.

EDITED Dec 3rd 2021, 17:47

No, I bought a new Roland TR-8 their boutique reissue of the legendary 808. I needed battery power to pair with my OP-1 and TB-03 for jamming on the go and on the sofa.

Depends on the size of your case and how difficult to use functions and how much menu diving and hidden button combos are involved for me anyways. Take Expert Sleepers Disting EX, it packs massive features in small space but man that module is a royal pain to navigate and use without lots of menu diving and study of the manuals! I have an O&C to learn and hope that is not as bad.

In many cases, I like simplicity take clocks for example. I love my Pam New Workout and while there are some menus and encoders to use, it is not that difficult for what it offers. In contrast, something like Shakmat Clock O Pawn is still a great clock but dead simple to use and no menu screens to deal with.
-- sacguy71

the key to this is - don't expect, or even try, to learn all functions of a swiss army knife module - learn the few that you want to use - disting favourites really helps with this, for example - and have a decent idea of the scope of the module

think about how you'd use an actual swiss knife - 90% of the time you use it as a knife, maybe you use the scissors 5% of the time, the saw 4% of the time - wtf are the other things?

if you suddenly need a 'xyz' module - then looking up the manual on your phone to check how it works is not that much of an inconvenience is it? - chances are you really don't need this function mid-performance - and if you do, at least with disting: the i/o is almost identical most of the time and working out what parameters are available is not that difficult - just click the Z pot

as for modules with secret handshakes to access hidden functions - have a play with them - if the hidden feature is important/useful to you then you'll probably remember the handshake to get there having done it a dozen times or so - if it's not that important to you then you can probably find it in a couple of minutes - if and when you need it - just don't count on it during a performance

Visit some of the other "first rack" threads. The biggest issue in almost all of those racks is the SIZE of the rack. They are too small. Skiffs should be built by people who really know modular well. To build a GOOD skiff, you have to make trade-offs on your modules considering size and features. My analogy is that it's building a classic Swiss wrist-watch versus a grandfather clock. The wrist-watch is much smaller and the tolerances are a lot tighter. You're going to get into a lot more trouble building the wrist-watch coming into it with no experience.

The first thing that is problematic is the control of your synth. Plaits requires a pitch CV and a gate CV play, so does your BIA. Every Erica drum module requires a gate/trigger to play. Where are all of these triggers, gates, and CVs going to come from? The MIDI module you've dropped in is very basic and can't support that many modules itself.

Speaking of the number of modules, how do you intend to get every sound generating module to your audio outputs? You can use the Maths as a basic mixer. But that's a huge waste of a Maths module. You have two oscillator-type modules, drums, a noise module, put some time into picking out at least one basic mixing module. You might want something basic that can handle audio and CV... and then maybe something a little better that can handle stereo audio.

It's been stated "you can never have too many VCAs." You have too many VCAs... for the size of this build. Plaits and BIA have their own internal envelopes and VCAs as well. You don't have to use them, but most people do.

I have DATA and I have Maths. But they are nice-to-haves in a Eurorack case. For a skiff, they are just too big to justify in most cases. But again... why skiffs aren't a good idea for your first build.

Also, the 2HP stuff should be integrated sparingly. The tiny knobs are tough for big fingers to adjust accurately. Also, if you place them next to each other you will have a really hard time not bumping the settings for an adjacent module. You'll find in Eurorack, that tiny adjustments can be the difference between a sound that's garbage and one that takes your breath away. Ergonomics is a real thing. With 2HP modules you also have to keep careful track of your power consumption as well as the DEPTH of space available in the case. 2HP modules can run pretty deep in order to keep their 2HP width.

I hope this reply was helpful. If you bought this set-up as-is, you'd probably be disappointed.

Yeah good experimental stuff and amazing what they did back on modular years ago. We are so lucky to have amazing choices in synthesizers and modular items today and the market is exploding as new makers create new ideas that take classics and modern design. Like the Roland re-issue of the classic 808 drum machine the TR-8 is super fun affordable and portable for beat making plus I think you can feed triggers from the boutique Roland re-issues to modular and so forth. I have really enjoyed listening to old electronic music from Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream.
-- sacguy71

I picked up a 'used' TR-8S recently from Patchwerks a few weeks ago...really digging the sounds I can do with that. I have got it sync'd up with Ableton pretty well (took a lot of fiddling around). Are you using TR-8S as well?

Yeah good experimental stuff and amazing what they did back on modular years ago. We are so lucky to have amazing choices in synthesizers and modular items today and the market is exploding as new makers create new ideas that take classics and modern design. Like the Roland re-issue of the classic 808 drum machine the TR-8 is super fun affordable and portable for beat making plus I think you can feed triggers from the boutique Roland re-issues to modular and so forth. I have really enjoyed listening to old electronic music from Kraftwerk and Tangerine Dream.

Is it safe to assume that the first and/or second tags on a module are the 'primary' functions for each. I get 'RTFM' but hoping there is also a certain degree of hierarchy in place for the tags
-- jb61264

only if there are 1 or 2 tags for the module - tag order appears to be alphabetic
-- JimHowell1970

Geez, how very non-observant of me...will definitely take that into consideration now as well...lol

Did you know that electronic music pioneer Morton Subotnick album Silver Apples of the Moon would be considered unlistenable to mainstream folks today who are addicted to rap hip hop crap and pop garbage? It would never chart top 40 mainstream today but does not mean it is bad music it is very experimental like my stuff!
-- sacguy71

Now I have another album to go listen to ;) Last week it was Klaus Schulze that someone recommended. I think @Lugia mentioned him in a post I made to reference some sounds that Klaus had on an album...I didn't end up liking that particular album (a couple songs yes) but I listened to a few more of his albums and really liked them.

EDITED Dec 3rd 2021, 17:07

Yeah it gets confusing sometimes in how tags are applied to modules. Take Shakmat Clock O Pawn and Time Wizard it really is a clock module and clock divider but can have some trigger based sequencer features and some logic functions while still easy and fun to use.

Is it safe to assume that the first and/or second tags on a module are the 'primary' functions for each. I get 'RTFM' but hoping there is also a certain degree of hierarchy in place for the tags
-- jb61264

only if there are 1 or 2 tags for the module - tag order appears to be alphabetic

Depends on the size of your case and how difficult to use functions and how much menu diving and hidden button combos are involved for me anyways. Take Expert Sleepers Disting EX, it packs massive features in small space but man that module is a royal pain to navigate and use without lots of menu diving and study of the manuals! I have an O&C to learn and hope that is not as bad.

In many cases, I like simplicity take clocks for example. I love my Pam New Workout and while there are some menus and encoders to use, it is not that difficult for what it offers. In contrast, something like Shakmat Clock O Pawn is still a great clock but dead simple to use and no menu screens to deal with.

Is it safe to assume that the first and/or second tags on a module are the 'primary' functions for each. I get 'RTFM' but hoping there is also a certain degree of hierarchy in place for the tags

@Lugia - for a couple days I have been very frustrated with BSP into my Disting EX (using multisample mode)...getting all sorts of terrible sounds just trying to hear the piano. Turns out BSP is too strong of a signal and I have to use an attenuator...luckily I have the Frap Tools 321 that you recommended I get. I haven't used it until this issue came up and I'm so glad I have it now. Would hope that Arturia would make BSP capable of sending 5V gate though...seems like it could be an update as I believe the Keystep Pro has that capability?

Thanks jb- yeah me thinks this Next_G dude needs to smoke some weed and spend more time creating cool stuff to share with the world on his massive modular setup instead of taking cheap mean pot shots at people. The world already has enough negative crap going on. Plus music tastes vary so much. Did you know that electronic music pioneer Morton Subotnick album Silver Apples of the Moon would be considered unlistenable to mainstream folks today who are addicted to rap hip hop crap and pop garbage? It would never chart top 40 mainstream today but does not mean it is bad music it is very experimental like my stuff!

You will never record a song in the DAW of that I am sure. You already have problems to operate a simple Eurorack sequencer like Eloquencer, or your pathetic attempts to operate a simple mixer.

-- Next_G

Wow dude you must be fun at parties...smh
Never will understand what compels someone to say crap like this even if you do truly believe it...which is ridiculous considering I'm assuming you don't even know sacguy71. I enjoy reading posts by sacguy71 and gain a lot of knowledge from them. What do you contribute but bad vibes and negativity...hope you can find some peace and chill out.

M3 screws are the ones that should fit. There are others that are very close in size that do not.

I bought Uxcell computer "graphic cards" screws. Apart from a couple of modules that had very narrow clearances, these work great for me. I can tighten modules down by hand with a thin nylon washer underneath to stop rack rash.

I'm not sure if the link will be valid but here is the name of the item:
"uxcell Computer PC Graphics Card M3x6mm Aluminum Alloy Knurled Thumb Screws Black 10pcs"

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MTN1PNK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A1THAZDOWP300U&psc=1

EDITED Dec 3rd 2021, 16:52

@Lugia - I remember when I first started posting on Modular Grid, you recommended getting VCV (and I did by the way). Admittedly, I spent more time researching modules and building my first rack outside of playing with VCV because it was "outside the DAW"...that has changed, I bought VCV to use as a VST in Ableton as well now.

hello folks, i've got a nice used pittsburgh case (system 10.1 +) and it works fine. but my screws (besides the original ones) don't fit into the nuts. it's also impossible to exchange the nuts. they don't fit into the rails.
does anyone here have some screws (10-14) over to send to germany ? would be nice !

Amen to that mog00 and Lugia.
I had fun last night experimenting with Ground Control and finding the right master clock setup. I’m really liking my Shakmat Clock O Pawn and Time Wizard combo for making beats without a sequencer.

Appreciate this feedback! Yeah I'm realizing this instrument has a much steeper learning curve than most of the other things I've taken on. I'm excited to fully dive in but I know it might take a bit longer now to build out. Currently tracking down a 6U case and have been gear purging to make room for more modular.

Hi all,

I've had an Arturia Minibrute 2s for a few months now and am hoping to delve deeper into the modular synth world. I'd love some feedback and help getting my head around my future rack (ie what I'm missing/what would be better for the sounds i'd like to make. I want to make heavy, gritty techno. for example music like:
=a926bf990cb042fe9ff425a93ec9ead5

anyway here is where I'm at with it.
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1763004.jpg

Any Help/feedback would be great.

Would also be interested in what modules i should buy first.

Thanks
Alex

EDITED Dec 3rd 2021, 15:12

It's a shame they seem to have dropped the in-rack VCV Recorder module (to push people to buy pro?), that was super convenient...

indeed
sequencer includes both trigger/gate and melodic sequencers - which can be confusing
as usual the only solution is RTFM

Two Plaits (chords), Monsoon and Ripples modulated by seven LFOs and Marbles.

and suddenly I have a good use of my Frap Tools 321 :)
Thanks @BrumoD I was able to run the signal from my BSP through 321 and now get a nice smooth piano sound

Just had some dealings with @hadj and I couldn’t be happier. Super fast response. Really friendly to deal with. Fast shipping too and modules were perfectly packaged and in as new condition. Highly recommended.

The 12V gates from the BSP are too hot for the disting (input range +-10V)? Have you tried attenuating them?
https://www.arturia.com/faq/beatsteppro/beatstep-pro-general-questions#collapse1

EDITED Dec 4th 2021, 11:04

Proverbs 11:12

I'd be super content with just a PL VS Intellijel checkbox, for now.

Anybody using the Beatstep Pro with Disting EX by chance?

I am having a heck of a time using the multisample app with BSP...its like the BSP is 'overdriving' the Disting EX and the sounds are not good. I've been fudging around with the gate settings with the knobs and getting a little better sound, but for example when I'm trying to just use the piano with pedal sample, there is always this 'thud' and it sounds like someone playing a kiddy piano...even though I have Disting EX set for "LABS Soft Pno - PedOn"

I'm sure it has to do with the BSP sending too much signal but not sure how to resolve it and I can't find anything that really addresses it when I google.

Hoping someone here may have a suggestion or two

This has got to be one of the most informative and helpful posts I've ever made and had replies too. Thanks everyone for all the insights, truly helpful and I have been definitely benefitting from all the comments.

One thing I had fun experimenting with is running the output of my Hydrasynth to one track in Ableton, then using the headphone output, I ran that through my Intellijel buffered mult...each output was an input into one of the four CVilization inputs and then each channel on the CVilization had two steps activated...so channel 1 had steps 1 and 5, channel 2 had 2 and 6, etc...each output runs to a different channel on my Cosmix....it created this really cool choppy/wavey sound that I sent to a separate track in Ableton....when I play the two together, it gave some really cool/interesting results. Further fun by switching on/off different channels on the Cosmix.

@farkas and @Garfield Modular - great tips, thank you very much, I'm getting a much better feel for using the envelopes with everything.

The category tags for modules need to be taken with a grain of salt. There is no substitute for reading the manuals and finding out what modules can actually do. Pam's New Workout, for example, is tagged with "Sequencer" and "Envelope Generator", but its capabilities in those two areas are fairly limited (though still useful).

Quite legit, in fact. Maths is a good example...yes, it's capable of being everything it's tagged with, and then some. If you're doing a build that's under 200 hp, searching out the good multifunction modules is pretty important. Just make sure the functionality on those that look interesting isn't TOO dense, which would make it a big PITA to program or tweak.

Our fave virtual Eurorack has stepped up to version 2. Plus, there's now a paid version that's on sale until 1 January 2022 that includes all of the VST architecture and a few other new kinks. Looks really tasty, and I'm planning to kick in the (presently) $99 because that VST capability is something I and a bunch of other people have been waiting for.

EDITED Dec 3rd 2021, 03:42

When a module here falls under multiple categories/functions, is that really legit or like, do I have to buy modules with only one function each?

Basically, XODES has developed a little fix for the P vs I issue that involves a bit of size alteration and screw slots instead of fixed holes. So you'd need Daniel's "I" format, A "P" format for Pulplogic format, and perhaps a "U" for these universal panel tiles...?

Granted, I (and a bunch of others, I'm sure) would prefer a single solution, but we got what we got right now.

Just ignore. Don't feed trolls. He'll eventually get tossed off of here with that sort of behavior.

Also since you are brand new to modular, you might want to instead get a basic oscillator VCO module and VCF filter module. That gives you more control and a better understanding of how oscillators and filters work.
-- sacguy71

Not to mention, if you get an identical VCO to the first, you then have the ability to slightly detune one against the other, which results in a much beefier sound. The Odessa is sort of an exception to this, though, in that you can work directly with the harmonic spectra and dial in exactly the timbre you want right there. But Plaits, regular VCOs, and the like definitely benefit from detuning.

It'll definitely cause eardrum damage...because you've not got any VCAs for the audio path, so everything will be direct and at one dynamic level. And Ronin is quite right...this just looks like a dumpster for "sexy" modules that NEED support modules to do what they can/should do.

Before you spend money that'll you'll regret, try the following:

1) Bigger cab. That increases the space needed for support modules. And note: Tiptop Mantis = $335, with 208 hp, already powered and expandable with a second Mantis when the time comes. So, smaller doesn't always mean cheaper.

2) Keep in mind that NOBODY gets their first (second, third, fifteenth, etc) build right.

3) Related to #2 above: this takes time. Quite a bit, if you want to really nail a build. And we're talking months...perhaps even over a year...to finally hone things down so that you have an instrument that is very capable.

4) VCV. Get it. Explore. This FREE Eurorack emulator (with several hundred modules!) will give you some major lessons on how signal paths, utilities, etc are critical to a good build. And they just released v.2, with a LOT of upgrades. https://vcvrack.com/

5) Find some of the better/bigger electronic music names on here, and study their racks. You'll be dealing with synthesists with decades of experience. I, f'rinstance, have 40+ years in on this. And there's lots of others in that zone. And...

6) DON'T replicate small YouTube builds. Ever. Many of those designs are pretty limited, sketchy, or both...because a lot of them have some manufacturer "swag" involved or, in a few specific cases, they're in some sort of relationship with synth retailers. Also, when you run across a YT clip where the presenter's studio looks like some Hollywood set, neat, all that...just remember: a clean desk is a sign of an unproductive worker.

And of course, you took the right step of posting here for advice. The main ones of us on the MG Forums probably have, all combined, about a CENTURY of experience, if not more. Mind you, we'll probably rip these builds up, but in the process you'll learn what works, what doesn't, and why...and after a while, you'll wind up with a serious rig.

Yea these tracks I recorded are really old when I was a total beginner many years ago! But I’m actually working on a modular concept album and thus far most feedback has been positive! Now I’d like to see what actually music and albums this Next_G troll nobody has done? Eh tu Brutus? You are nothing but a sorry and pathetic angry little man who hides behind a keyboard and has zero portfolio or music albums.

FYI, here's the math for calculating cost-per-hp:

Assume that each hp in a Eurorack case is 1/whatever-eth of the entire space amount. So that's, in the case of a Mantis (I know this one off the top of my head), you have a total of 208 hp in a cab that costs $335. So...335/208 = $1.61(ish) per hp.

Next, calculate the amount of hp in a device, then multiply that by the per hp cost. That gives, for a Moog semi, 60 x $1.61 = $96.60 extra.

Then you add that to the cost of the Moog, so $699 + $96.60 = $795.60 for the cost of an M32 PLUS the cost of housing it in a Eurorack case. So, unless you MUST have the M32 in the cab for some logistic reason, it's really not cost-effective, plus you're using 60 hp that modules that DON'T have power or housings now can't use, while the M32 has a case and power already.