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Got it.
Thanks for the Qubit tip- I think that’s the way I’ll go, and scrap my sequencer ideas-the voltage block seems to do exactly what I’m looking for ie subtly shifting harmonies but in a pretty small footprint, the note entry seems a bit clumsy but looks like it might yield plenty of happy accidents though.
Thanks Lugia, the build is basically finished, adding Pamela as a clock and modulation source, the Quadnic and couple more quick intuitive sequencers( a pair of stepper acids perhaps or even a another pair of Metropoli - is that the plural of Metropolis?)at some point and ditching the Chord is as far as it’s going ( ha ha). The Moogs are still separate but just put in the rack for the purposes of the thread. I just realised I missed out what is actually quite a key component- a WMD Pro out so I’ve got no issues with the line out so far, the rack is going into an external mixer basically to provide a soundscape/rhythm section for a Voyager OS and Sub37, theremin and guitar- the Pittsburgh mixer appealed because I can run the guitar via a UA Oxbox into the modular system and share guitar pedals between the synth and guitar as well as being able to mess with the guitar signal. The automation thing isn’t critical on the mixer as pretty much as soon as I plugged Frames in I realised it’s like programming- and I HATE programming! Your point about VCAs, envelope generators and LFOs is taken on board, I’m just a bit lost as to the best way to go in this area- just discovered the joy of sending the LFO square and triangle from the M32 to the aux inputs of the Metropolis controlling the 2hp pluck and realised how much they open up the potential of a system, as to envelopes- could an ADSR module be easily synced or triggered with my existing set up plus Pamela?
Looking at the build pic and reading what you're trying to do here, I think that the Frames is a poor choice with as few modulation sources as your build has. Also, the Pittsburgh...while it's a good mixer...won't do what you want, either. And as for attenuating the output (which I'm a bit confused about your description of here), it doesn't matter what mixer you use, you have to attenuate an output to a line-level input because synth-level signals are quite a bit hotter than regular line-level.
If I were facing the same problem, I would first go with a different mixer altogether, namely one which has its main functions under CV control, but which doesn't have extra complexities. The Frames is really more intended as an audio signal "morpher" than just a mixer, and the Pitt module isn't as automated. Instead of either one, have a look instead at Qu-bit's Mixology, which is a four-channel mixer with CV over channel level, pan, and effect send and the additional utility of channel mutes and solos.
BUT...and this is pretty critical for making a build succeed overall...you desperately need more modulation sources. I don't see any additional EGs or LFOs, which are major bread-n-butter modules in of themselves, that can be dedicated to envelopes for your level VCAs or effect send VCAs or LFOs for panning and most everything as well. Plus, even with this different mixer, you will still need some sort of output level attenuator/control to keep from running your mixer input into immediate distortion.
At the basic level, this isn't a good build at all. Your Moog devices really should stay in their own OEM cabs if you're building in 84 hp cabs, otherwise they're hogging space that needs to be there for other things. There are no VCAs (linear or exponential) outside of the Moogs, nor any LFOs or envelope generators beyond what the Moogs offer. I would strongly suggest that you stop what you're doing with this, step back, and take some time examining other builds by experienced users as well as classic modular/patchable instruments to see what those people or companies are/were doing. Take some time to go through the forums here, also, plus at other sites such as Muff Wiggler, Synthtopia, etc to get a more concrete idea of how to proceed. Do the very necessary research before continuing, because modular can be a very effective way to create...but conversely, a very effective hole down which money gets uselessly thrown if one has no clear idea of what they're doing. Sure, they look cool and all, which is why a lot of people right now are drooling over them, but without a clear understanding of what you're doing and why you're doing it when creating a build, it doesn't matter how cool it is, it'll just be a waste of your time and money.
Also, perfect dealings with @joeSeggiola and @easyskywalker sorry for the late feedback!
Bought a couple of modules from @lucoli awesome condition and a nice guy to deal with A+ recommended seller!
That would make me very nervous unless there's a really good explanation for this. Did anyone ever encounter something like this that turned out to be 'legit?'
This is not the portable but looks so good. Make noise and Erica have the good collaboration. I am wondering this monster case of the portable 7U make noise case or Erica's portable case.... Difficult to decide now.
experimental quadraphonic atonal generative system
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_789046.jpg
Evening modular people, fairly new to eurorack so need a bit of advice. I bought Frames as a mixer because the key frame idea appealed to me, being able to fade in one source or sequence as you lose two and leave another more or less dominant in the mix with the turn of one knob sounded great on paper. In practice it is a bit clumsy and setting the levels up how you want is pretty hit and miss, it also can’t be used on fly at all unless you’ve got two separate systems running in tandem so I’m left with essentially a quite expensive 4 channel mixer. I appreciate it can do the same trick with CVs and has other hidden depths but at this stage that’s not what i’m after, saving grace it has a really crackly pot so can be returned BUT - do I need the VCA/attenuator element of the module? I’m thinking of exchanging it for the Pittsburgh Modular system interface which offers me some much more practical useful features in a mixer but will I need to purchase VCAs to get decent levels out? I should add the modules on the far right are not part of the setup but the next purchases to be made from the ever expanding wish list. Any input is appreciated.
Thanks @Plexusgel for dual adsr. Very fast shipping and perfect module!
Thanks @lucoli for Maths great module, perfect condition and fast shipping!
Well I am thinking about the voltage block instead of the Z8000 a lot. Z8000 really is big... Voltage block is not really a matrix but it has 8 CV outs, build in quantizer, build in clock divider, probalility per setp and a slew limiter... I wouldn't need the O_c... Pam I want to keep I think because of all the nice features.
I bought a uBraids from Michigan Synth Works. Can't complain. I bought an O_C and Temps Utile from a Modular Grids member/maker. They work perfectly as well. Message me and I'll give you the name if you wish.
Read up on all the functionality of the OC... it even has a dual sequencer that can output gates as well as envelopes. So if you get in a pinch, the OC can deliver envelopes or your quantizer or even an extra shift register (but only one set of functions at the same time).
As far as your matrix sequencer, you might want to check out Noise Engineering's Mimetic Digitalis. The functionality is similar (but not the same) as the Tip Top unit. It's only 10HP and about $100 less. Pair that with a second O_C and you should have even more options in 18HP rather than 28HP. You can also save the state of the O_C and the Mimetic Digitalis, which is a big plus. With that extra 10HP, you have room for another 10HP VCO or 5 2HP units.
I know, so many options...
Fair price , perfectly built , fast shipping in armored packaging ... very good guy is @wtkdwc , thanx aaaa lot :)
Hey Ronin1973
Oh wow, the Ornaments and Crime really does a lot of things I want. Also the shift register is back in with it... I am not really into soldering, but I saw Michigan Synthworks build those thingies for you (if you can wait for 21 days...). Looks like the uScale is more easy to use, but O_c does so much more... hmm.
To make space for the O_c I had to do some compromises... less VCA and ADSR. Now I have 6 VCA and 5 ADSR sources, one ADSR is a Tiptop Z4000 and 2 are more simple ones from the Doepfer A-142-2... Clicking on the rack should get you the new setup. Also the Ladik dual lag is back in, which I imagine handy for the Z8000 out into non-pitch CV.
With both the PAM and O_c there seem to be plenty of LFO outs now, nice.
Happy I could help with the HN mixer. It was initially proposed by Lugia. I was between Roland 531, Verbos Scan&Pan and this one...
Hi there.
If you're going with the Intellijel 104HP 7U case, it has 1/4" inputs and outputs on the case already. You won't need to add the 1U jack interface that's to the left of the volume control module. The TipTop Z4000 ADSR has CV inputs that can control each stage of the envelope. The Doepfer saves space but you're going to get sick of those jumpers in a heartbeat. The Z4000 is 8HP, so two of them equates to 16HP. The Intellijel dual ADSR is 14HP. I would substitute one of the Intellijel VCA modules for something else that's a little slimmer like the Zlob 6 channel VCA. It's slimmer and gives you six VCAs instead of four. They aren't as flexible as the Intellijel, but you've got that covered with the first Intellijel VCA.
If you can spare even more room, get rid of the uScale and replace it with a micro Ornaments and Crime. It has a quantizer built in, plus a bunch of other features when you're not needing a quantizer.
That Pan Mix by Happy Nerding is an awesome find! I was seriously considering the Roland 6 channel mixer because of the panning... but it also has mutes. But the CV control of panning and volume makes the Pan Mix a bit more attractive. Thanks so much for posting it. You've helped ME out. :)
The purpose for this patch was to derive as many Drum sounds as can fit in the available 6 Summed Audio Outputs on the Modular (4 from Quad VCA+2 Additional on Mix 3).
More simultaneous drum sounds are possible if Mother 32, Plaits, and an additional Disting are used, but these may not be as modulatable as there are no remaining VCA's (other than simple ones using Maths Channels 2 and 3).
Sending simple noise into the Quad VCA with closed Amplifiers, and CVing with Channels 1 and 4 of Maths is particularly effective for expressive changes in "snare" drum length (can then use Peaks as a Hi-Hat). To create a better composition, program and sequence States using Planar 2 as an anchor to bring you back to State 1 ("Chorus" State).
Octavian
Colour Scheme
Tempi Channel Outs
- Purple Stackcables
M32 Assign Out (Tempo) into Tempi
- Long Black
Disting Outs
- A is Medium Yellow
- B is Long Yellow
Dixie II + Rings Outputs
- Medium Yellow
Cinnamon, Peaks Outputs
- Short Yellow
Maths Unity Channel Outputs
-Short White
Quad VCA 4/MIX Out and Mix 3 Out
- Short Orange
Octavian
Disting Parameters
- H7 Noise
- 2 Simple Blended Noise outputs from A and B
- Would have liked to have a Second Disting, in order to use one for Noise and another for MIDI-to-CV until I am comfortable with using the Mutant Brain.
- Noise Lengths are modified manually by the Fall parameters on Channels 1 and 4 of Maths
Octavian
Tempi Parameters
- Default Bank 1 State 5: Clock Divider Even
- Leading Tap Tempo Enabled, but Tempo is fed in this case by M32 Assign Out (sending clock rate pulses, M32 Assign Setting #2)
Octavian
Colour Scheme
Tempi Outputs
- Long Green
Data Tempo Output
- Short Black
Ears Gate Out into Buff Mult CH. 1, and CH. 1 Outputs
- Input & output 2 are Long Yellow
- output 1 is Short Yellow
Quad VCA 4/MIX Out into Buff Mult CH. 2, and CH. 2 Outputs
- Purple Stackcable
M32 VCA Out
- Medium Red
ADSR Out to M32 Buff Mult, and Outputs
- Mult In, Output 1 are Medium Blue
- Mult Output 2 is Medium Grey
Dixie II to Cinnamon CV In
- Medium Orange
Maths to Rings 1v/oct
- Short Green
Rings ODD Out
- Short Grey
Cinnamon Lowpass Out
- Short Black
Octavian
Only 1 State is used, with Audio Rate Leading Tempo set by DATA (920 BPM).
Channel Configuration:
4 channels total (5-6 are muted)
1 & 4 are ON, Mod-disabled
2 & 3 are ON, Mod-enabled
Program Edit (Mod) Page:
Shift is OFF (CH. 4 unlit)
Run/Stop is set to Run/Stop Mode (CH. 5 red)
Run/Stop is Toggled (CH. 6 unlit)
Octavian
Sequencers: the Mod, the Main, the Random, and the Drums - and the Quantizer!
Hi there
I thought I'd give you an update of my thoughts. As before, first I want to plan a 4-voice style rack with it's own sequencer. So here is the setup, as it looks now:
1U row: Attenuverter and mults for basic stuff. I know there are inline versions but I want to have at least a few of these in the rack. The audio I/O (jacks / pre-amp) also moved to the 1U section.
3U row: PAM for clock generation / modulation into Z8000, gates and other purposes. Then a dual lag, 2x Twin Waves, S-P Filter and 4x VCA; mostly unchanged form before. I eventually ditched the KOMA VCA, now I am taking the Doepfer A-132-4 into account, mainly because it's super easy on the HP, but still not super sure of it. uBurst/clouds for effects (I think the only module form my initial setup...). Next a 2xLPG (duh, how could I have missed that) and the HN mixer for stereo out.
3U row. TipTop Z8000. Its cheaper than Rene2, has 10 CV outs and Matrix control. I saw a few demos and I am almost sold for that one. Mix4 to mix some or all of the 4 VCOs, moved down because no space upstairs. 4x ADSR, two of them with VC over each step, 4xLFO. Last not least: Wogglebug for random CV and gates.
The case: I think in the end it will be the 7U inellijel (2x104 HP, so more space than this setup). But at this time I don't have the monies for it. I will get the Doepfer DIY and 2 extra rails for 7U. Otherwise I won't have the money for the first modules.
So, for those still interested: Am I still missing something? What would you do different?
OK, in the meantime I get really hyped for this. If my boss decides for a bonus this year I will start building in January.
Some of the problem, I think, comes down to users who post modules and don't make a selection as to whether a module is "currently available", "concept/prototype", or "discontinued". If people would show a lot more discipline about doing that when posting something new, then it would be easy to use that existing filter to deselect the unwanted entries.
Using the "currently available" filter in searches does help some...but then one runs into the issue of modules that are definitely available but not labelled as such. Again, this is a user issue as I note above.
reidv does make a good point, also...if you're posting something that was a one-off and which is only in your rig, definitely use that "unlisted" checkbox unless you actually plan on making said module(s) available for sale.
Bought a Circuit Abbey Invy from @Darylc. He sent it out right away and it arrived in excellent condition. A+ transaction
Please for the love of god. It's such a mess.
Please also:
He finaly replied. The modules just have been sent. Or so he pretends, because he gave us no tracking number and do not answer to our last mail asking for it. Too bad he treat his customer this way. His modules, even if digital, are interesting, but we won't buy anything from him anymore.
Cable Colour Scheme
Planar 2
- ABCD Out = Long Red
- ABCD In = Stackcable Green
- Gate Out = Short White
- XY Outs = Stackcable Purple
Tempi
- CH. 1-4 Out = Stackcable Green
- State Gate In = Short White
- Mod In = Long Black
- Tempo In = Medium White
Buff Mult
- CH. 1 = Long Blue (both in and outs)
- CH. 2 = Medium Yellow In, Long Yellow Outs
DATA
- Inputs = Long Red
- Mult Outs = Long Black
- Tempo Outs = Medium Grey/White
Disting
- X In = Medium Grey/White
- Y In = Medium Red
- A Out = Medium Yellow
- B Out = Long Yellow
M32
- LFO Rate In = Stackcable Purple
- VCA Out = Medium Green
- VCO Mod In = Short Green
- MULT 2 and VCF Cutoff = Short Yellow
- MULT 2 = Stackcable Yellow
- MULT In = Long Yellow
Plaits/Rings
- Outs (ODD in Rings) = short Orange
Cinnamon
- Lowpass Out = Short Red
Peaks
- OUT1 = Short Blue
Quad VCA
- 4/MIX = Long Blue
Mix3
- Out = Short Black
Octavian
TEMPI Parameters
- Mod Shift functionality is turned off (although not necessary as Shift takes the State Gate Input when both Shift and Run/Stop are enabled)
- Mod Run/Stop is set to Run/Stop mode (red) and Toggled (led 6 off), so that channels can be turned on and off externally by tapping Ears
MOD-Enabled Channels per State
1. 1, 2, 3, 4
2. 2, 4
3. 1, 3
4. 3, 4
5. 1, 2
6. 1, 4
7. 2, 3
8. 2, 3, 4
9. 3, 4, 1
10. 4, 1, 2
11. 1, 2, 3
12. 1
13. 2
14. 3
15. 4
16. none
Octavian
Do at least make sure you have some way of locking up clocks between Ableton and the modular, though. You'll find that to be extremely useful. Even so, I'd still consider some way to pass more than just a clock to the modular from Live; the fact that M4L is in there (depending on which version you're using) opens up massive possibilities for modular control that will definitely exceed human limitations.
Thanks to @PinPinKula, the deal for a Clouds was ok, the only flaw is a scratch on the panel, but functionality is ok....Maybe next time ask if the panel is in good condition...
Thanks for your answer.
In our case he didn't even reply. So we've contacted our bank to cancel the payment. Hope this will work.
Just had a great transaction with @lucoli, great communication and shipment. Totally recommended!
Same problem here, except that he never answered. What did you find if I may ask ?
-- DarkEnergyLounge
I sent emails twice and could get the reply from him immediately. He told me that will ship the items soon with tracking numbers, but there was nothing from him. It was almost a week.
I will make a contact credit company next week.
Same problem here, except that he never answered. What did you find if I may ask ?
Great post Luigia.
Reading this 6 months ago before I dove in might just have deterred me, not that I have regrets per se. #5 hits hard.
Not gonna bother with most nobs right now, there's a recording I have on my phone for some of that. Rene is in harmonic minor key. Channel 4 is divided by 4. Could also be put on same tempo and/or put in Optomix strike instead of Echophon freeze. Tempi and Pressure Points both optional, latter is just for pressing and messing around with pitch.
Liam "The Lemony Bard" Zaffora-Reeder
Great post. Great post indeed.
Can I add a seventh comment:
7) Time. Like with any instrument, it takes time... a shitload of time to get good at it. Every module you add is another layer of complexity. In order to get the most out of your set-up, you'll have to dive DEEP into every module, even the simplistic ones. You'll have to create a TON of test patches to get a feel for different attributes. The more complex the module, the more time you'll invest. Even if you have years of experience with software synths or polyphonic synths, you're still going to have to put in a ton of work.
Ronin, no worries about the comments. I actually really appreciate the candor and am here precisely for the kinds of advice and info that you won't get from demo videos on a manufacturer's website.
I also should have noted that the goal isn't to use a hybrid DAW/Eurorack setup in the long run. Really the use of Ableton as a sequencer will be for early stages getting that knob wiggling time in and getting experience passing modulation CV around.
Thanks, again.
I looked at the specs on the VCA module here:
http://www.doepfer.de/a1324.htm
Any control voltage above +5v pushes you above unity and into amplification. If you have anything that can measure voltages, you may want to check your modulation source to see if you are, in fact, hitting the VCA harder than +5v in CV. That would explain your unwanted distortion. You can either attenuate the audio signal or attenuate the CV signal.
Using another VCA or attenuator (like an attenuverter) will help keep the signal in check to avoid distortion.
Perhaps I'm missing something here, but perhaps not. Checking the links provided with each module takes me to a website where there's no information on availability, pricing, and so on. The MG listings show prices and claim availability, but the actual company website doesn't seem to indicate...well, much of anything. The module listings there seem to all link to a Github site...while at the same time, some of those same MG listings show those same modules as being available as a prebuilt module or DIY kit.
In short, this is a tad screwy. Perhaps the user who posted these can clarify things?
HI!
Pretty new to modular here.
I've just started my way into this with a Ants! and a Digitakt for some sampling, percussion, sequencing function.
I have finally put some money on the side to start to expand Ants! but even if i have a desktop mixer because some space issue i was thinking to sell it to go modular instead.
Now, I've checked that i would be able to get probably a 0 coast as a second osc and a Field kit fx as a mixer and mangler, i think i would have enough to fund that.
I'm wondering, though, if any mixer module could carry the digitakt line or not.
Do you think it could be easily done just from digitakt outs to any mixer module in, or i necessarily need an interface like intellijel i/o or others to do that?
And anyway, what u think about using modular mixers in general?
Personally i find really interesting the idea of a driven cv mixer for experimenting on performances but i still have a too limited knowledge.
I've looked for my answer in sooo many threads but they re almost all about the contrary, so modular trough desktop mixers, or about desktop synth through modular fx, is there any difference with mixer than fx?
I'm still a bit confused.
Moreover, i was adopting the idea of a field kit fx as well because his mixer capability, is stated on Koma site ''4 Channel Mixer with VCA’s and tone control'', does this means that any vca could possibly act as a mixer?
Thanks!!!
My initial thought on my build was that I would save some cash and let my DAW handle the heavy sequence lifting. It seemed a little daft to have an entire MIDI capable DAW and then replicate a portion of it inside of a Eurorack case.
I was wrong.
Hooking it up to the DAW really impacted my workflow. It seemed a better fit for augmented a piece created in a DAW with some Eurorack flavor than as part as a compositional tool. When I'm wiggling and standing there with a handful of patch cables, going to the DAW felt alien. Until the 1010 Music Toolbox comes, I've been using Ornament & Crime as a sequencer.
The point above is don't be afraid to be WRONG about your needs. Your going to order things that sound great on paper you won't use. I have a Lifeforms 8 step microsequencer that gets almost zero use. I bought a Behringer Neutron that rarely has an electron flowing through it. No matter how much planning and exploration you do. You're going to have some regrets. Take it slow, order a handful of things until you experience what direction you ultimately want to go in. You may find yourself... in a shotgun shack... with a beautiful wife... cursing set-up "A" you've spent a fortune on when in your heart you're really a set-up "B" kind of person... because you've found that's what inspires you around modular.
Sorry for the lecture. But responding helps me focus my thoughts as well as helping someone else on the ladder. I would wait on the Akemie's Castle but leave room for it in your rack. Get a feel for a smaller set-up and branch out.