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Wow. I appreciate hearing others' experiences here, but the sycophancy and lack of self-awareness in Ronin's last post just drives home what toxic tendencies this forum unfortunately has. (Talk of "triggering" is sort of a giveaway.) Style and substance are of course not two unrelated things, and the irony of not appreciating either here is a bit much. Anyway, thanks, Hazel, for the lovely video links. And thanks for sticking your head above the parapet with your well-written, and, yes, substantial contributions to this thread. Hope to hear more from you on another forum.
Sorry for the issues. Sadly the messenger had no spam protection so Werytuifdsa was able to send her offer to ca 2000 users and killed the SMTP doing that
We now have a limit for standard users: they cannot send more than 3 messages per hour.
Limits, fences, borders everywhere, it's not what I had on my mind ...
Well, normally a PM to one of the mods tends to work...it's important info, actually, since MG has had issues with spammers that've required site filter adjustments.
However...have you considered the "abuse potential" here? Try messaging them back with loads of technical gibberish, such as inquiries about the CV interfacing for the webcam so that you can sonify your websex and possibly make some money off of their own scam. Or ask them if their websex "providers" respond to all MIDI sysex messages, including poly-aftertouch, because...quality websex should have poly-aftertouch. Etc etc etc...
Hi,
I've received a message about webcam sex BS from a user "Werytuifdsa" with whom I haven't spoken before. It came out of the blue and looks like spam. Is there a thread or a process for reporting these spammy users?
cheers
I'll try to contribute to this discussion in the most constructive way I can.
To understand my perspective, I also have been on the receiving end of advice about a rack project being a total noob in Eurorack, not too long ago. I suppose the rack I submitted was showing enough research because I received very constructive comments, I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and had a few laughs. Maybe creating something along the lines of "How to build your first rack" and "how to constructively ask for advice to help others help you" could help everyone get the same experience.
On one hand, it's true that some comments made on newcomers' racks may be perceived as harsh, the same points could have been made while being less "dismissive" of the proposed idea, for example by pointing to learning resources about the misunderstood concepts that lead to a "less functional" rack or asking more information about the poster's goal with the rack and their knowledge about it. I personally don't have any issues with the tone but I also can totally see some sensitive people being discouraged by it sometimes, since there's a good chance MG will be (like it was for me) their first contact with the Eurorack community, as it gets recommended in a lot of YT videos for beginners. Being told your rack is unusable as a first comment could be discouraging for some people, even if that's very close to the truth. That being said, what should you tell someone who planned a rack based on faceplate color (for the record, I did that too at first) ? Sure it's fine if people want to do it (more module sales, more money for development of new modules, amarite ?), but we're building devices to make sound primarily or at least that is what most people do with Eurorack, so if someone is building a wall of black faceplates instead, I'd say "decorative" is a fitting adjective for the rack (even if "usable" and "fun" could be just as fitting in some situations), that's even the announced goal in a way.
On the other hand, those comments (or at the least the substance) were very important for me as they made me challenge a lot of my decisions for module selection or even where I was going with Eurorack in general. I still made a couple of mistakes but it would have been way more costly without the help of some people here, Lugia and Ronin included (thanks guys, really). I for one would have hated seeing the limits of my rack after only a few patches, I am SO GLAD that didn't happen and I probably owe it a lot to the advice that was provided here. Sure, in a way I agree with Hazel's point about being able to use one of those "less functional" racks. I would actually go further and say that starting with a very limited setup and picking your modules based on the limitations YOU encounter is a great strategy for learning. That being said, I strongly believe that while those racks may be fun to play with at least for a while, telling a future buyer of Eurorack about the limits of such a rack is an absolute must so they can make an informed buying decision. MG might be their first and only stop before the buying act, so it's important to make sure people understand what they would get for their hard earned money. They might not even have too much cash to spend on mistakes, even if those mistakes can teach you things as well. It's totally fine to build a rack that people would call unusable, a one-trick-pony or the modular equivalent of a Pringles can with a slinky I guess, as long as you understand well that it is what you are doing.
I suppose the most important for me is to get the information I need regardless of the tone, so I'm just grateful for whatever knowledge I can grab
Thanks, Lugia, for chiming in. I’m going to try to make a few points and then I’ll be taking a break from this. (I don’t mean for that to sound as temperamental as it may.)
blah
blah
b;aj
For any readers that might be interested, I came across this interview with Ann Annie and found it insightful and inspiring. I also found that it kind of contradicted Lugia and Ronin’s points. Also! I learned that Ann Annie’s first step into eurorack was with a Mother 32, and a 42HP rack with only one module. Kind of ironic considering the OP of this thread... You see: eurorack can all start with a very simple, restrictive setup. There’s a good chance you’ll have an excellent time with it, and as you begin to learn more, you’ll start realizing the next best steps you should take towards creating your own personal, ideal rack.
-- Hazel
You seem like a passive-aggressive troll that has nothing of any substance to seriously contribute... but hey... that's just my opinion. You seem pretty much all about criticizing others. I agree with Lugia... show me some substance.
I am looking for VCO recommendations.
I thought for a moment to hijack the similar thread from GarfieldModular but for the sake of clarity, I'm opting for a new one.
The module I'm thinking of replacing is the Erica Synth Black Wavetable VCO. My use for it is quite simple: I feed CV modulation to the Wave CV in and send the OUT to a big reverb, the 2hp Verb with max Time and almost 100% wet (sometimes through a filter first but more often than not it's unnecessary), bam, I have a cool drone. So far so good.
What grinds my gears is the limited modulation destinations I have on this thing, and the apparent uniformity I get as a result. Even letting more dry signal through, most of my drones sound very similar and a bit too "behaved" for my taste. In other words, I think the Black Wavetable VCO is not crazy enough for me, and I need harsher sounding stuff, especially if it's drenched in reverb afterwards, I found that some modulation applied to bitcrush on the Black Wavetable VCO can bring some life to my patches, I just don't like too much how the bitcrush sounds. I don't use the internal VCA at all and the FM is just ok, nothing to write home about IMO. YMMV of course, it's just my personal taste.
The only limitation I have for now is space, the module has to be in the 8HP->24HP range, preferably 20HP maximum. I have done some research of course, and came up with the following challengers:
- Industrial Music Electronics Piston Honda Mk III. Basically another Wavetable VCO but I feel I would have a wider sound palette and better modulation destinations for sonic variety/evlution on it.
- Industrial Music Electronics Hertz Donut Mk III. I love FM, and this VCO seems capable of outputting some pretty weird stuff, not sure how relevant it is for the use case I have defined though.
- Noise Engineering Ataraxic Iteritas. Sounds harsh enough, wondering about variety of sound on this one but the width is ideal.
- VOID Modular Gravitational Waves. Not enough demos online, but it came recommended by Lugia in Garfield's thread and a complex VCO sounds like something that could be useful for what I have in mind.
What are your opinions on the above ? Does anybody have experience with those ? Or maybe other modules I've missed and should really look into ? I often have no possibility to test the modules in person so bonus points for demos.
Other suggestions I'm interested in include those telling me to keep the Black Wavetable VCO and use it differently of course, I am in no rush to switch the module out ;)
Thanks in advance for your time and knowledge !!
Cheers,
D.
Hey, there's a troublesome seller - @DeepSynth
I transferred him money for 4ms STS on Nov. 5, and few days later he stopped answering my messages.
He had on sale several modules, and still seems to have, although the list is getting shorter as if he is actually selling them. It looks legit. https://www.modulargrid.net/e/users/view/147749.
The paypal account I sent the money to is ***@gmail.com
Tried to contact him, no success.
Be careful with this guy. It seems I got ripped off :/
[ edit Nov 29: DeepSynth transferred the money back and sent the apology. ]
Well, if you think you can do better, Hazel, then jump right on in. If you don't like how some of us do this, then you're perfectly welcome to give it a shot yourself.
Seriously. You're complaining a lot about style here...why not show us some substance?
I have currently downloaded VCV Rack and I am going through Youtube tutorials.
Great recommendation Ronin1973!
Yes, I have already purchased a 4u 104hp case Garfield. However, it was the last case in the store as that Intellijel 4u case is now discontinued and I got a great deal on it. As soon as I feel myself outgrowing it, I will try to find a second hand 4u case and lock them together or just sell it it and grab the 7u, which is more convenient with the lid, handle and built in jacks.
Elodin - The Ornaments and Crime as recommended by Ronin1973 with "Hemispheres" and maybe a Batumi sound like they would make great additions.
First things first though, I will start going through the tutorials and VCV Rack. Great help.
I am also going through Chris Meyers "Learning Modular Synthesis" from Lynda.com and it is very helpful.
Fortunately it is free through my local library here in Canada.
Hey guys been lurking for awhile and I’m brand new to modular. Finally decided to just post my initial idea for my first rack because I basically have been over thinking every little thing and just need some opinions or suggestions. I’m looking to eventual make a dark ambient kind of space/ocean vibe rack if that makes sense. I basically picked these first modules as basics and to learn modular better. If there is basics I am missing please give me some suggestions. I plan on adding a sequencer, modulation and effects along with a sampler is the plan. Thanks guys!
Thanks, Lugia, for chiming in. I’m going to try to make a few points and then I’ll be taking a break from this. (I don’t mean for that to sound as temperamental as it may.)
You wrote: “...nor would any modular synth beginner be happy with one of these systems that only does a few things, albeit amazingly well.” I don’t agree with this at all and think it’s completely plausible that many beginners would be thrilled with a rack like the above – even with something quite a lot smaller and more restrictive. And this might relate to my next point, which is that another significant problem I’ve found on this forum is a tendency to IMPOSE one’s own values/interests onto others. Example: the very first response to a rack that was posted several days ago (made by you) was…
“Well, first off...it's really...ah...BLACK. But that's not good. Invariably, if you're creating a Eurorack along a certain look, then all you'll wind up with is a decorative prop...”
You know what I think is totally okay? Wanting to design an all-black rack. I also think it’s alright not to care at all about how your rack looks. What’s not okay are statements like yours, which not only neglect to take into account what might be important to the OP, but also actually insult them for caring about X.
This is getting into the details of Ronin’s last post and gesturing more towards a tangent, but the comment “one-trick-pony” and the implication that Ann Annie has more or less tapped all of the creative potential of that rack with a single 4 and half minute track seems ridiculous. And given your points in this thread emphasizing how much can be done with so little (steel drums with a little reverb, slinky, Pringles can) it seems ironic.
Also: perhaps I’m wrong, but based on the comments I’ve encountered on this forum I highly doubt if someone had posted a rack similar to the above, they would have received a response like Ronin’s, telling them that the rack worked but lacked versatility. I think it’s much more likely the response would have been along the lines of what I wrote...
“Some of us might be a bit rough around the edges about this, true...but when you consider that we're trying to help bedazzled kids in a candy store of epic proportions avoid the awful feeling of realizing they've spent several grand on a modular rig that only does a handful of things correctly, well, sometimes a "reality brick" thru the "fascination window" is an expedient way to get those people to realize...”
Besides the unnecessary condescension here, I fear that more than anything, Lugia, your “reality brick” is an effective tool to help people think more like you, and value the same things as you.
For any readers that might be interested, I came across this interview with Ann Annie and found it insightful and inspiring. I also found that it kind of contradicted Lugia and Ronin’s points. Also! I learned that Ann Annie’s first step into eurorack was with a Mother 32, and a 42HP rack with only one module. Kind of ironic considering the OP of this thread... You see: eurorack can all start with a very simple, restrictive setup. There’s a good chance you’ll have an excellent time with it, and as you begin to learn more, you’ll start realizing the next best steps you should take towards creating your own personal, ideal rack.
I'd much rather get someone triggered and thinking instead of coddling them in platitudes, lies about their build, etc and then letting them discover on their own that they've blown several grand on The Machine That Goes "Ping!". The latter isn't a responsible stance at all.
-- Lugia
That's what I named my rig when I started out... because I appreciated the irony.
While I can see how this could conceivably be mounted in a Eurorack case, the rest of it doesn't seem to fit the criteria of being a proper "module". You only have outs for the VCOs, and an input for the VCF/VCA. There are NO patchpoints for any of the CVs/gate/trigs involved unless someone's coming up with a breakout module. And the audio outs aren't synth-level, but line or headphone.
Thanks for the post. Ann Annie is pretty famous in modular. The rack you're looking at works. But I seriously doubt that this rack is all of Ann Annie's modules. This rack was probably specifically built for this piece by someone with some serious knowledge and talent. If you want to reproduce this song with those sounds... perfect. But we're discussing what usually turns out to be someone's full kit that has to be more than a one-trick-pony.
-- Ronin1973
Exactly. While I certainly detect the sound of some axe-grinding here, the poster of that bad noise doesn't seem to be taking that last part into account.
The vast majority of beginners putting racks up on the MG Forum might be trying to create rigs for what they think is a specific purpose, but much of that "purpose" comes from a misreading of seeing others using purpose-built systems (like Ann Annie's here) to create specific works that that rig was built for. And I don't think anyone on here would realistically believe that it's a good idea to optimize a rig for a beginner that's purpose-built for a very narrow range of work, nor would any modular synth beginner be happy with one of these systems that only does a few things, albeit amazingly well.
I'm very much reminded of the TB-303 here. Yes, it's this much-worshipped synth. Originals still go for a couple of grand. But the cold, hard reality of the 303 is that it really only makes about 6-7 different noises really well, barring modifications. So if someone were to come up to me, or Ronin, et al with one of these little plastic boxes and ask if they could get a good "Blade Runner" Vangelis sound out of it...well, they probably need some "splainin", not merely about the difference between a CS-80 and a TB-303, but about what criteria is needed for a proper synth that can handle A LOT of different possibilities. Some of us might be a bit rough around the edges about this, true...but when you consider that we're trying to help bedazzled kids in a candy store of epic proportions avoid the awful feeling of realizing they've spent several grand on a modular rig that only does a handful of things correctly, well, sometimes a "reality brick" thru the "fascination window" is an expedient way to get those people to realize that what they're planning might not only be a money pit, but a potential experience so dissatisfying that they're apt to bail on music (especially if they're really just starting out). It might seem less "triggery" to nice up what we're trying to say, but I'd much rather get someone triggered and thinking instead of coddling them in platitudes, lies about their build, etc and then letting them discover on their own that they've blown several grand on The Machine That Goes "Ping!". The latter isn't a responsible stance at all.
Thanks, the Temps Utile certainly ticks a few boxes. I have so far been staying away from menu-driven things, though I do realise I'm thinking of the Disting!!
I'm getting along fine with my Pittsburgh MicroSequence, with the direction on Random with possibility of a rest for gates and clock, then I'm using the pitch as modulation mostly.
*edit, Just grabbed a 2hp Div cheap on ebay so that might be my clock multiplying needs filled for the moment.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
+1 for O_c (I suggest using alt firmware "Hemispheres").
This next bit may seem contradictory with my + for O_c, but I recommend you get a simple oscillator. Plaits is great, as was its predecessor Braids, but they are not the most intuitive modules. When you are learning modular, it is very nice to have easy access to raw wave forms (preferably simultaneously). Consider Befaco Even VCO.
Finally, this rack would benefit from a simple modulation source (Sin Phi Miasma / Rampage / Maths / Batumi).
Thanks tyson… the last thing I want for active members of this forum to feel is like they’re being ganged up on, but it’s also nice to know I’m not alone here.
I managed to track down the video I mentioned in my last post. Whether or not this music is one’s taste is of course not the point. It has 33k views and over a thousand likes and the first two comments are: “this wins the grammy for best generative synth track” (Lugia’s thread titled “Why your 6U x 84 generative rig won't work” might be worth bringing up). And then: “This just leaves me breathless everytime I listen to it. It's almost painfully beautiful..”
Scroll further down and someone posts: “Amazing! How is it possible to obtain more information on a setup like this? I am no musician but I would love to have something like this at home and play around with it. I guess it will be a diccicult task to master...”
Here’s an answer/plausible scenario. Do some research and come across a site called modular grid with the unique feature of being able to create a virtual rack which you can submit for feedback. Post a similar setup to this video (or even an identical one). Receive criticism along the lines of this:
Lots of attractive modules but totally lacking in utility modules. Will make a great decoration or prop but good luck making music with it.
TWO Rings + an Elements and Plonk! Call the redundancy department. And way too many mutable instruments modules. Plus these are available in smaller HP so a total waste of space.
I see an Optomix but no real VCAs? Totally unusable.
I suggest doing a lot more research before posting another rack. Etc, etc…
Looking at a price tag around 5 thousand dollars and facing comments like these, feel really discouraged (and confused?) and never take the next steps towards getting into modular synthesis.
Was the genre of synthesis potentially just harmed?
-- Hazel
Thanks for the post. Ann Annie is pretty famous in modular. The rack you're looking at works. But I seriously doubt that this rack is all of Ann Annie's modules. This rack was probably specifically built for this piece by someone with some serious knowledge and talent. If you want to reproduce this song with those sounds... perfect. But we're discussing what usually turns out to be someone's full kit that has to be more than a one-trick-pony.
Some of my favorite modules are Ornaments & Crime as well as Temps Utile.
I have the Pittsburgh sequencer. I hate that thing with a passion. You'll get more use out of an Ornaments & Crime and more features in 8HP (microversion) than the 10HP Pittsburgh. That's beyond the scope of what you're asking. But I found it worth mentioning.
It also can function as a quantizer, LFO, and some other nice functions
The Temps Utile can function as a 1-in, 6-out clock divider/multiplier. It also does Euclidean and simple trigger sequences, some internal logic, and is also 8HP.
Research those two modules and see if they fit within your creative horizons.
Hope you understand what I mean, I'm German speaking.
A few Months ago i started my Eurorack Journey and asked for Advice here on Modgrid. I also got Advice from Lugia and Ronin.
I really appreciated this because these People have lots of knowledge in Eurorack.
Maybe the Answers from Lugia sound a bit "grumpy"sometimes but I think he really cares that people don't waste their Money on a non Working Rack.
Lugia puts a lot of time and effort in his replies and advice.
But I agree with you. When someone posts his Rack on MG an the first thing they read is "unusable" or "doesn't work" may be a bit
discouraging for Eurorack Beginners :-)
But like I said. I think Lugia really cares that Beginners got the most out of their Money and a proper working Rack.
Can somebody tell me a difference between ES-8 and FH-2?
I need the module to send midi to cv from ableton cv-tools to my Stillson Hammer mk2. The outputs could be set to be a note, gate or modulation source.
It doesn't necessary need to have a lot of outputs because i plan to use cv multiplier.
So i can't completely decide which module I need for my purposes. Maybe you could help with your opinion.)
Regarding point 1, not sure but maybe the ACL Sinfonion can do this, you might want to check that module out. The con is the price.
About point 2 not too sure what you want, do you mean something like a random generator or something like that? If yes, there are several random generator modules, just go in this forum at modules and look there for what you might need.
After reading your reply I am less worried and I think you are going the right way. As long as you know (or think you know) what you are doing regarding those sexy and fancy looking modules then that's all right.
Making a mistake is totally okay within Eurorack, has there been anybody out there that never made a mistake? :-) It's so common, that's totally fine and from those mistakes we can learn and improve ourselves regarding Eurorack or modular in common.
Did you bought already the casing? If not yet, then please consider a bigger one, for example the 7U of Intellijel, as already mentioned.
As Ronin mentioned there's always an interesting way to do things. It's like that old phrase saying: "There are many roads leading to Rome". The same is applicable for Eurorack. There are many different ways to get things done within Eurorack. With the exception of a few small matters, you actually can just do anything with Eurorack. You can patch whatever you like, you can experiment the way you want and during that process you learn a lot. So enjoy your first few modules and welcome to Eurorack :-)
Have fun, good luck and don't hesitate to check/ask here, kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
So far I'm pretty happy with where I've got to with the modules I've bought, my next purchase thoughts are around the following:
Expert Sleepers Disting Mk4
Noise Engineering Clep Diaz
2hp Arp
2hp RND
Happy Nerding FX Aid
Also need a Clock Multiplier
Or
Monsoon (NI Clouds Clone)
I need a bit more Random going into the Turing Machine, I feel I need a slow clock as the main clock with Multiplier for the lighter jingly/twinkly bits, a Clouds Clone and/or more effects for some textural washes of sound to go around what I already have (and derived from what I already have).
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Thanks tyson… the last thing I want for active members of this forum to feel is like they’re being ganged up on, but it’s also nice to know I’m not alone here.
I managed to track down the video I mentioned in my last post. Whether or not this music is one’s taste is of course not the point. It has 33k views and over a thousand likes and the first two comments are: “this wins the grammy for best generative synth track” (Lugia’s thread titled “Why your 6U x 84 generative rig won't work” might be worth bringing up). And then: “This just leaves me breathless everytime I listen to it. It's almost painfully beautiful..”
Scroll further down and someone posts: “Amazing! How is it possible to obtain more information on a setup like this? I am no musician but I would love to have something like this at home and play around with it. I guess it will be a diccicult task to master...”
Here’s an answer/plausible scenario. Do some research and come across a site called modular grid with the unique feature of being able to create a virtual rack which you can submit for feedback. Post a similar setup to this video (or even an identical one). Receive criticism along the lines of this:
Lots of attractive modules but totally lacking in utility modules. Will make a great decoration or prop but good luck making music with it.
TWO Rings + an Elements and Plonk! Call the redundancy department. And way too many mutable instruments modules. Plus these are available in smaller HP so a total waste of space.
I see an Optomix but no real VCAs? Totally unusable.
I suggest doing a lot more research before posting another rack. Etc, etc…
Looking at a price tag around 5 thousand dollars and facing comments like these, feel really discouraged (and confused?) and never take the next steps towards getting into modular synthesis.
Was the genre of synthesis potentially just harmed?
As someone recently on the receiving end of some blunt but probably fair criticism for my proposed rack, I thought I would give my thoughts on this thread. I do think criticism, blunt or otherwise, can be useful. But there's a difference between being told your rack is lacking and what you need to learn, and being told to "quit immediately" if you don't pass whatever artistic litmus test. Hazel's post struck me as a thoughtful response to a thread which had a mix of helpful and holier-than-thou posts. That the first reply was "I'm not understanding the point" of the post surprised me, because I thought it made a lot of good points, especially the last paragraph about the value of making mistakes.
I take Ronin's words at face value that "we want people to have great experiences and really enjoy their racks and cases. But they have to get past the first hurdle of what exactly IS a modular synth and how do you interface with it?" Many hobbies have hurdles for beginners. (Especially track and field.) To extend the running metaphor: yes, you have to get over the hurdles yourself, but a good coach can help you get ready to jump them.
For a forum where criticism almost seems to be the default response, there was a strange lack of self-criticism in the replies to Hazel's post. Instead, it was dismissed with "Besides criticism of other members and their decades of experience... what are you offering to this year old thread?" which both misses and underscores the point. Beyond this particular thread, I agree that there tends to be an "an unnecessary level of discouragement" in this community. And that's a shame, because this forum could be missing out on a lot of posters who either feel intimidated or just put off by the general tone.
Maybe I'd see things differently if I knew a lot more about modular and synthesis and attenuverters, if that's even a real word. But consider the opposite: how would the most experienced people here view the forum if they were coming here for the first time, without all their knowledge and experience? Would they want to stay and learn, or find somewhere else more welcoming? I ask that because I'm asking myself the same question.
You also mentioned, I think it was Ronin1973 that new users lack knowledge on triggers, gates, clocks etc. I think you hit the nail on the head right there.
-- Groc
I read your whole post. But this line jumped out at me the most. If we were to write "the book" one of the biggest recommendations would be to download and install VCV Rack. The basic system is free and there are a lot of free expansions. It's an entire Eurorack-style ecosystem that will allow you to add and play with modules using virtual Eurorack standards. When you're trying to get a feel for what is a trigger, gate, clock, CV, etc. it's an invaluable resource for learning and trying things out hands on. You'll walk away with a lot more knowledge of how modular works in the real world... by doing. I can't stress it enough.
Eurorack is tricky to get your mind around coming from DAWs and hardware MIDI. I think people get comfortable with virtual plug-ins and traditional MIDI instruments that are far easier to use than control voltages. Being able to recall complete patches and using a working INIT patch means little thought has to be given to HOW different components actually communicate with each other. In Eurorack, you literally have to make the connections between components by hand.
As you discover how CV works, you'll notice a lot of very basic modules can really unleash the full power of such a retro method of making synth sounds. It's that level of control that, personally, brought me to Eurorack.
It's all good. I hope you stay around for quite a while and post frequently. I'm still learning a lot as well. There's always an interesting way to do things.
Thanks for the replies gentlemen.
I am a bit surprised by some of the things mentioned.
"Please try to plan less "fancy" or "sexy" modules however more classic components (they might look boring, they do look boring but you seriously need them) like VCOs, VCFs, EGs, LFOs, VCAs, etcetera."
Fancy and sexy have very little to do with what I am trying to achieve. It's all about the sound for me and if I could make the sounds in my head with 12 VCA's, I would be happy to do that :)
I have 3 Oscillaors, 2 VCF's, 2 EG, 5 VCA's and a basic LFO so far.
I have been reading what you suggested though and am seeing that my modules are fine but very incomplete without more utility modules.
''Another consideration is that you're using a lot of Mutable Instruments modules."
I am actually only using 2 but I get your point. I think one of the issues for "some" people new to eurorack, myself I would include here, is we do research and want to get what is considered the best quality and most versatile modules; therefore Mutable Instruments comes up a lot. However, like everything, maybe it is just a bunch of online magazines trying to profit from other peoples lack of knowledge and maybe there own, I don't know.
I read "Why your 6U x 84 generative rig won't work" and the replies that follow and I think you guys should write that short book for beginners.
Every time a newbe posts "Help! New to Eurorack", you guys can just give the link to the e-book :)
It would be so helpful and also it would help adjust the expectations of those really interested and not interested in learning eurorack, as well as the cost involved (especially for errors on purchasing unnecessary modules).
You also mentioned, I think it was Ronin1973 that new users lack knowledge on triggers, gates, clocks etc. I think you hit the nail on the head right there.
I feel lost in a forest when it comes to that stuff. I am so use to midi and how easy it is to implement. I get Oscillators, Filters, EG's, VCA's and LFO's (a basic synth) but I think it gets complicated after that, which probably sounds silly to people with experience like yourselves.
I am always reading what I can and looking at Youtube etc but it is all so fragmented and incomplete. An authority on the subject would be helpful.
Thanks for all the info guys and for taking the time out of your days to help and you have probably saved me some money here so thank you.
I already ordered the Plaits, Stages, Polaris, Quad VCA and uFold pre this post so I will learn these as much as I can and use them with my Lifeforms SV-1. I will also add the Quadratt as advised and maybe a sequencer module.
I might also add the Disting at some point to see what other utility modules I need for my own purposes.
Ok, thanks again!
I can see I have a lot of reading and experimenting to do so best of luck.
I am sure I will be back...
Thanks, Ronin, for both of your replies, and I apologize if my first post sounded harsher than it needed to.
I’m not sure I agree with everything you wrote here. I’m not especially familiar with the Mother 32 but it seems like a very capable synth in it’s own right. The prospect of integrating it with a small eurorack setup that includes Disting, Tides, Maths, and Shades, and then adding some of the modules that placebo suggested (Strymon Magneto, Intellijel Rainmaker, MI Clouds, Make Noise Erb-Verb, Tiptop Z-DSP) seems to me far from “just piling on the bad.” It seems a bit strange to me that you can agree with the creative potential of a slinky or Pringles can (which I agree with too btw) but make the statement you did about the above setup. (It’s also worth noting that Lugia agreed with placebo’s recommendation to add effects modules to this rack.)
I apologize if these posts of mine aren’t helping as that’s really my intention, but I feel like the following point is valid: I think statements like yours above, and the quotes of Lugia’s that I’ve referenced, may in fact do just as much harm to the genre of synthesis than less-than-perfect setups that require the user to make adjustments as they begin to learn more.
I also think it’s possible there may be a bit more space for different approaches to a modular setup than it seems you and Lugia believe. An example… A rack that was posted a few days ago received the following criticism: “There's an Elements...and a Rings? OK with the Department of Redundancy Department, perhaps, but a waste of space otherwise. Lose one or the other.” Note they didn’t merely point out that these two modules are similar; they more or less gave an order. Yet I recall a video popping up in my youtube suggestions recently that featured a 6U case that not only had Elements and Rings, but Elements + two Rings (all three of which were being used). If I remember correctly it was quite lovely, had thousands of views and many enthusiastic comments. Might the OP of that thread have benefited from using both of those modules in a rack that was 12U / 84HP? I don’t know, but I think it’s reasonable to suggest that it’s a possibility.
Look: I hope it goes without saying that I’m not trying to start anything, or to insult anyone personally. We both agree that modular synths are wonderful instruments, and I agree that many people likely don’t do the necessary research required to get into this – that they post racks with serious flaws and that they benefit greatly from the advice of you, Lugia, and others… With a subject that can be so daunting though (it terms of learning curve and cost) I’ve found what I see as an unnecessary level of discouragement in many of the posts I’ve come across.
For what you are planning, the lack of filters, VCAs, VCFs, attenuators and attenuverters, you are just going to have a very expensive and poorly functioning sampler on your desk.
You've fallen into the same pit as most people new to Eurorack fall into. You seem to not understand HOW a control voltage environment works and you're cherry picking modules that you seem to like. You really need to educate yourself how Eurorack/modular synthesis works and start planning AFTER.
I realize that you're planning for this to work with VCV Rack. But there are gaping holes here. I'm not picking on you. I hope everything works out well and you get everything out of your gear you're looking for. But this build is just lacking.
My best advice to you would be to download VCVRack (it's free) and set up a virtual Eurorack synth then try to play it.
In this set-up you're missing a lot of key elements to even a basic synth. What is a VCA? Why are they important and what can you do with them? Do you know the types of VCAs that are around? How many would you suggest for this set-up? What is an attenuator and/or an attenuverter?
How will you attenuate control voltages going to the resonance input for your VCF for example. The filter cut-off has a knob that functions as an attenuator... but the resonance doesn't. Manufacturers put attenuators and attenuverters (an added expense) on inputs they believe will get a lot of use. But there's no rules saying that they have to. If you want to control the amount of attenuation with other parts of your system, you'll need VCAs as well.
How will this synth play notes? There's nothing on here that can deliver a sequence of pitches AND gates. The Vari-Gate only does gates. What will handle pitch information?
You're also missing a lot of modulation sources. LFOs are very handy and standard sources of modulation. There's not one here. Where are the envelope generators? The Maths can do simple two stage envelopes... but what about ADSR envelopes?
Regarding the filter. It's only a low-pass filter. It has different outputs that supports different cut-off slopes. But that's the only kind of filtering you can do with it. I'd check out something like the Joranalogue Filter 8 to give yourself a lot more options... unless you're going to add a few other filter types to your system, which would be expensive.
The mixer is DC-coupled (so it can mix audio or it can mix control voltages). It's fine. But you may also want to consider an output module that converts synth level to line level. Modular synths operate at a much louder volume than your average line level synth.
Maths. Maths is a great utility module to have around. But it's a jack-of-all-trades.
Eurorack is pretty trendy today. There are a lot of people who are excited to get into it. I don't blame them.
But in the rush to get into the genre of synthesizer, they often don't bother understanding what makes Eurorack actually WORK.
So a nice percentage of racks that are put up for advice are like the one above. Recommending modules for ambient music making... no problem. Discourse and disagreement on what modules to recommend? Always.
However, simply acting like a sales clerk and watching people throw good money after bad is a thorn in the side of many people in this forum. Is it their money? No. Is it going to affect them personally? No.
However, it does affect the genre of synthesis. When people walk away from a bad experience... they blame the gear and the genre. Yet they refuse to learn how control voltage systems ACTUALLY work. The rack above follows suit. The recommendation to buy module-du-jour for making ambient music from... THAT RACK... you're just piling on the bad.
As I said, I can't speak for Lugia. But I believe his views are similar to mine. We want people to have great experiences and really enjoy their racks and cases. But they have to get past the first hurdle of what exactly IS a modular synth and how do you interface with it?
pretty stoked on the new arrangement of my live drum rig :) sequencing and voices in the base and mixing and modulation in the lid :) check the latest pics on instagram for a view.
I came across this thread while researching suggestions for eurorack modules that would be good for making ambient music. I think it’s pretty understandable I was left feeling frustrated.
Conversations often stray from the original topic in interesting ways but I disagree this strayed “a little”. It’s more like it took an immediate detour and then started to get back on track towards the end (and yes, I’m aware that I haven’t helped in this regard). If the OP had asked for advice about creative methods for making ambient music, or for people’s feedback regarding the importance of using specific gear, this likely would have been a very helpful thread.
I was admittedly being intentionally critical, but still, I find your response a little surprising. Lugia wrote: “if you have to labor under the misapprehension that you MUST have X piece of gear to do Y sort of music, then quit immediately, as you're not really making something that truly speaks of who you are musically.” Honestly, what could be more critical than that?
Personally, I agree that focusing too much on gear can be a hindrance and distraction, but there’s also a big difference between writing that doing so “kills ones’ creativity” and suggesting someone should quit making music because they believe they need X equipment. IMO it’s totally valid for someone to believe that a particular module is an integral and necessary part of their setup because of the unique properties it has.
I was trying to offer a different perspective. I found this thread because I had the same question as the OP but found this for the most part discouraging. I wrote what I did for others who might feel similarly. In the last paragraph I was kind of questioning the helpfulness of advice in general, but you make a valid point that this is an old thread that likely won’t get much attention.
There's a way to rotate a module 180 degrees, but not 90 degrees, which allows for showing these modules in the spot they're going to reside in. Is there any way in hell this could be possible to implement, putting a submitted module of these adapter into a rack, and then putting a module into that rack?
There's a way to rotate a module 180 degrees, but not 90 degrees, which allows for showing these modules in the spot they're going to reside in. Is there any way in hell this could be possible to implement, putting a submitted module of these adapter into a rack, and then putting a module into that rack?
I read your post. You have an SV-1 and a Keystep. This rack will be in addition to those pieces.
"I want to have a lot of diversity, functionality in a small rack."
The nature of modular makes this a very difficult request to fulfill. I'm assuming that the SV-1 is going to be your go-to synth and what's in the rack will compliment the SV-1. What do you feel is missing from the SV-1/Keystep combination? Where are you going with your music?
Garfield mentioned getting the 7U version of a case. I would definitely recommend that too. It's a little more money up front. But you get more space and more features in the 7U cases.
As far as what you HAVE in the rack posted above... IF you get a 7U case, you will definitely not need the Intellijel audio I/O 1U JACKS module. Those are built into the back of the case and have a connector for the Intellijel audio I/O module.
The pedal I/O and pedal jacks I/O are nice to have. But there are better modules that will fit in that 1U space. Get an Intellijel Quadratt for mixing, inverting, and scaling your CV and even audio. You'll find it more useful than that other stuff (the Duatt doesn't offer enough channels in my opinion). Eurorack versions of reverb, delay, and bread and butter effects are nice due if they have CV inputs for real time modulation of parameters. That's something you generally can't do with most general, stand-alone effects units.
There are some things that might give you a wider palette of sound such as a module capable of ring modulation and/or distortion. You're on the right track with a wave folder. You can overdrive a signal with your Duatt... but there's no way to directly modulate the module. It's still not a bad module, though.
Another consideration is that you're using a lot of Mutable Instrument modules. There are smaller micro versions of these available. If you can handle the smaller knobs, it's a great way to save rack space for other modules.
I'd also suggest a module like Ornaments & Crime. Your Keystep has an on-board sequencer. But having a second sequencer that can be locked to the Keystep and be modulated within the rack is also helpful. Sequencers can be used to influence modulation rather than playing notes. The O_C can also generate envelopes rather than gates... so it can get you a long way even if used in a subtle manner.
To summarize. What you have here in conjunction with the SV-1 and Keystep isn't bad. Just go with a larger case. As you dive deeper into Eurorack, you're going to probably want to add more modules or swap out what you have for something else that might need more room. Give yourself room to expand.
I reread your original post. You're want to use Ableton with your rack. Cool.
Here are some ideas.
The Expert Sleeper modules are very good when it comes to interfacing with a DAW.
The FH-2 and newly release ES-9 are worth checking out.
The FH-2 converts MIDI to control voltage. The 8 outputs can be set up as either gates/triggers or CV. So any combination is possible with CV, gates, clocks, etc. The FH-2 is also expandable if you need more outputs.
The ES-9 skips the translation from MIDI CV and acts as a direct gateway between your DAW and your rack: audio, CV, gates in both directions.
They aren't cheap and they aren't exactly easy to set-up/edit, even when using the browser interface. But they are very powerful. I'd do a little research on them as well as any alternatives by other manufacturers.
