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Thanks :)

EDITED Mar 5th 2020, 08:18

Thank you, will take a look and try.

A few other points, also...first up, you don't have enough sources that require stabilized CV for pitch, so the buffered mult is pretty useless here. Rule of thumb is that once you get beyond feeding three sources with the same CV, you'll want to buffer that to avoid CV sag and resulting tuning problems...but with what you have here, you won't need this. Just mult things out with inline mults or stackcables, and you'll be golden.

Now, having removed the buffered mult, you now have an 8 hp hole. So...try this: remove one of the Quad VCAs altogether. Then into the hole, put a Happy Nerding 3xVCA, and use this in THAT position for your CV/mod level control, and the remaining Quad VCA for your audio + mix to mono. This leaves a free 2 hp there in the second row (2hp DC-coupled mixer for CV/mod combination?), and 12 up top. My next move there would be to add one more device, something you can use as a doubler for one (or both) of the audio samplers. Like this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/flight-of-harmony-sound-of-shadows which is a delay line that would work great for doubling, plus it also offers an insert loop in the delay's feedback path for even more fun. It's sorta gritty, too...adds character, done right. That way, you don't have to tie up the Mimeophon for simple delays, making it more useful for global delays/loops.

Oooo...you might add something like this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ladik-s-186-dual-delay or this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ladik-s-090-dual-probability-skipper Both could be fun...the first would allow you to offset the timing of whatever was being clocked through it, letting you "slip" the other sequential parts. And the other would allow the sequencer to actually skip a pulse (or three) to let the sequencer fall off of whatever primary beat was underpinning things. Toss a delay line into this for audio strangeness, and you'd have something pretty nifty...and not for a whole lot, given how cheap the Ladik modules are.

...I fear people might start listing modules at unrealistic prices in order to game such a guide. Both inflated and undervalued scenarios are plausible.
-- senor-bling

Actually, a problem like this exists on eBay, and he's known as the "Flower Pot Guy". Infamous. The user posts up pro audio gear at prices which are sometimes twice the normal average, and charges "normal" prices for stuff that's broken. The name comes from his habit of putting the gear in front of some cheap clay flowerpots before photographing it, and its been going on for literally years.

The problem arises when you have non-online dealers that might be trying to price some obscure device, and they use this bastard's inflated prices as their own, because...hey, HE asked that, so WE should ask that too! I've actually run into this once or twice, and dissuading dealers from following this jackass's prices is like pulling teeth...until/unless they recognize that they might not sell the device in question at those insane prices of his. But his antics have caused considerable problems on that platform for pro audio shoppers for the precise reason you mention here. MOST...but not all...have learned to ignore him, but his "au-thor-i-tay" is still occasionally cited by non-eBayers for their own psychotic used gear prices.

Mmmm...except...there's some things missing here: phantom power and impedence settings. Very important...

If you're planning to use a high-end condenser mic for your horn, this might prove to be a problem. A better idea would be to go with something like this: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MixingLink--eventide-mixing-link-preamp-and-fx-loop and then take the line out from this (or the AUX port) and go to a more conventional input preamp such as a Doepfer A-119 for your boost to synth level and the envelope follower/gate result. A box like this also allows for a separate FX loop besides the modular. As for modules WITH phantom power...ahh, you're utterly screwed unless you hold an AMEX Black Card, because then you're looking at Cwejman stuff, and that ain't cheap! Even at $300 for the Eventide box and $100 for the A-119, you're STILL a few hundred ahead of that.

However, if your horn has a piezo pickup (most wind pickups these days are), then you'll need a module that doesn't have phantom power, but a suitable hi-Z input setting so that the piezo sounds natural. In this case, no external box would be needed, but you'd want to look into something like Sputnik's EF/Preamp, which has the necessary impedence adjustments for this.

The Erica module IS NEAT, no doubt...but it's not out yet. These other solutions are, and they should work just fine.

use inverted gate from piano sustain pedal to mute the kick drum

Hi Rookie,

You got a nice rack there! :-) I like the relaxing music, makes me cool and calm down after a very busy day!

Kind regards, Garfield.

Yep, good advice. Cara and nrings seem to be assembled.
I wonder why the Michigan Synth Works rings clone is 100E more expensive than the two others.
I'll have a look to Mimeophon.
Thanks :)

EDITED Mar 4th 2020, 20:26

Thank for those precious advices :)

Which clones of Marbles and Rings are the best ? Cara and nRings ?

Nothing else missing ?
-- vincentprimault

Just a note: some of those clones are DIY only, so just be aware of that unless you’re cool putting stuff together and soldering and whatnot. Also, if you’re looking for weird experimental sounds, Make Noise’s Mimeophon is worth a look, though it might be more hp than you’d prefer. I’m actually working with the same setup you are (Rackbrute 6U and Minibrute 2S), so have fun: it’s an awesome ride. And feel free to PM me if you want to talk further—I’m a big Depeche Mode fan.

Thank for those precious advices :)

Which clones of Marbles and Rings are the best ? Cara and nRings ?

Nothing else missing ?

EDITED Mar 4th 2020, 19:07

If you don't care about the size of the knobs, clones of Marbles and Rings will save some rack space. The Batumi always needs the 3HP Poti expander.

The 1010 Music FX Box will also run the two other firmwares, so you have another synth and a drum module there as well (just only one at a time). I'm not sure why you have all of those mults. Maybe one buffered mult. But passive mults are a real waste in a small space. Apart from the convenience, you're better off with external splitters.

I'm sort of in favor of such a thing as well. However, I fear people might start listing modules at unrealistic prices in order to game such a guide. Both inflated and undervalued scenarios are plausible. Adding to that, since the marketplace doesn't have a full order/checkout process, there's no way of telling whether a module has actually been sold at the price listed.

Check out the sticky topic "Using the planner". Maybe the keyboard shortcuts will help you accomplish what you want.

EDITED Mar 4th 2020, 16:15

Marbles and Minibrute 2S sequencer plays an A minor pentatonic scale randomly through Plaits, 2HP Pluck, a flute sampled in Disting MK4 and Minibrutes VCO 1.

Is there a way to control to which rack a module is added?

I created 4 or 5 different racks and want to copy some modules of each into a new "buy this" rack. Therefore I opened each module in a separate tab, but "add to rack" does not add to the desired target. I closed all other tabs that have racks and only opened the "buy this" rack.

Any other workflow that would help?

This one will put all my musical ground together. This will raise my horn to a galactic level. I'll be patient enough… I hope!!

Update. Do you think it works ?

Still seeing some flaky behavior with screenshot functions
-- Lugia

Thanks for reporting, it should work again for now with help from the wonder called "server reboot". I try to find out what the reason for all the trouble is ...

Thanks to the ModularGrid developers, you can now go directly to the virtual VCV Rack version of a module if it exists by clicking "Available for VCV Rack" on the sidebar of a ModularGrid page. Example: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/mutable-instruments-plaits

You can also go the opposite direction, but clicking on the ModularGrid link on a VCV Library module page. Example: https://library.vcvrack.com/AudibleInstruments/Plaits

So far there are about 100 modules on ModularGrid with authorized VCV Rack clones. Soon we'll have more clones of Malekko, Grayscale, Befaco, and Mutable Instruments modules, as well as some brands I can't announce yet. If anyone sees any errors with the links, let me know here or by emailing contact@vcvrack.com.

.pngs might scale a bit better, but MG accepts JPEG just fine as well. It's pretty forgiving about image quality. However, I avoid the autocrop function, and crop everything before loading. That way, there's less for MG to chew on, which is more efficient.

Still seeing some flaky behavior with screenshot functions, such as linking in rack images in forum posts. When attempting to load just the screenshot of a project from last night, the shot wouldn't load at all in its window...I got an error message instead. And in the forum post in question, it will only put up a generic link to the build's page, probably due to the screenshot function being linked to the forum's image display capabilities.

Good choice. The Pittsburgh Structure cabs are built like a brick s**thouse, too, which means all of these widgets will have a very sturdy home. Plus with the +12V rail total PLUS inrush figures coming in at around 2.5A, it's got the P/S that can handle that...and then some! Should be a killer rig once it's built...

Hey Lugia,

Thanks for the improvements, it looks great to me now. I'll probably go for a Pittsburgh Structure Ep 208 case (you've advised it to me in a past treat) both because of the cost and solid power supply to keep the system safe.

Hope to carry out something really enjoyable from this system throughout years.

All the best,

Marco

Thanks for the advice!
A stereo mixer and some more VCAs will be added.
More logic modules is put on the wish list.
Now I will start to build. But it is hard to decide in what order I shall buy the modules.
I guess I have to start with a simple voice: VCO+VCF+VCA+LFO+EG+mixer and a sequencer or Marbles.

Sometimes the machines rebel and the automatism does not work. So see the note from further up:

So if the autocrop does not work uploaded PNGs that were edited with an external software indeed give the best results.

I have reworked the pictures, your pedalboard looks good now.

Thanks for the info and rework! Just to be clear, you're saying a reworked PNG is better than a jpg?

I am in the middle of making an 84hp 6u rack using the Doepfer DIY Kit and Laser Cut Acrylic.

I plan to have a rig that is good for soundscapes/ambient (melodic). I plan to use the OP-Z to send CV and Clock in some cases; it will for now, be a bit of a brain. I (like many) love granular sounds and want to use this along with there stereotypical soft chimes and plucks that many get nowadays.

As a guitarist with some pedals (delay, reverb etc) I would like to be able to utilise these. I have included I/O and Ears to get both audio from the OP-Z (I an run a drum track from that for now - panned left and right into the InAmp, and then around the rack, Ears for other inputs). I wonder if there is a specific send/return module that I should consider to use the pedals?

I have put together the following proposed modules:

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1144642.jpg

I would welcome criticism, along with any guidance as to 'what to get first' that will be usable with the kit described above. I have included a Marbles clone but had looked at the Chance too - I haven't formed a strong opinion on this yet...

Do I need Maths... everyone has Maths...

Thanks!

EDIT: struggling to understand how to insert a screenshot, sorry!

EDITED Mar 3rd 2020, 16:22

Lovely little module.
Just a heads up: if you use it for audio, it doesn’t fully close.

OK...MG's screenshot function seems to be smokin' rocks again, so let's see if this sucker posts properly...

Yeeeahhhh...it's being pretty hateful. At least there IS a link there...

OK, what I did here was to trash a lot of redundancies and whittle the functionality a bit from your prior iteration so that I could drop more RAW POWER into my redux. MIDI interface and sequencer were dropped in favor of a Squarp Hermod, which has both and which does way more. Tempi was dropped in favor of a Pam's; you might want the extra two channels of trig sequencing. Zadar instead of the dual ADSR and the Erica EG/LFO, Quad VCA instead of the discrete dual VCAs...you lose two, but gain some extra mixing capability for either audio or CV (or both, given that you can split out VCAs in it).

Listen I/O was scrapped, and I separated the audio in and outs into separate modules, both located where they should be. You'll also notice that the Happy Nerding OUT has a separate stereo input, which you can use to put the Mimeophon in parallel routing, instead of having to route everything thru it and control the result with the wet/dry control. The Doepfer A-119 also now gives you an envelope follower...very useful for incoming audio, as you can now use the incoming amplitude as a dynamic contour (or most anything else CV-wise). Buffered mult, yep...normally, I'd say keep this OUT, but in this case the build IS moving into the turf where this is needed. And WHY...well, that's next to it: Squarp's new 4-channel sample player module. Then the other new device is a 6-in stereo mixer, with CV over either level (your dedicated audio VCAs) or panning.

Layout was regrouped, and the functions were split between rows: audio UP, CV/mod DOWN.

...and the cherry on the cake: I managed to mash it down another $300, even with all of the hi-octane additions. :-) So, how's that?

EDITED Mar 3rd 2020, 02:59

Kind of hard to go wrong with Arturia's various sequencers, really. There's a bunch of that laying around in my studio: Microbrute, Microfreak, a pair of BSPs, Keystep, and a Keystep Pro which should be here in a couple of months. They do those things RIGHT.

It's not bad, but I'd suggest looking into some modules that can "read" CV states and output gates...comparators, discriminators, that sort of thing. Along with that, you'd probably want to expand the Boolean logic capabilities to make better use of those new gate signals...would allow for a lot of "conditional state" behavior within the generative process, adding to the potential complexity. Also, add a few more linear VCAs so that you can better automate the CV/mod level processes.

So far, so good...now, how would you do this in stereo? Spatial activity is also a very useful thing to have going on in generative processes.

The more i learn about the mb2s the more i think i made the good choice :)
Very cool.

Yes! It's awesome.

So, what I often do is use the pitch + gate sequence to drive my Minibrute's voice. Then I use channel 3 to control the gate of a second VCO and channel 4 to control its pitch. However, if I just want to use the same gate (to create multi-voice chords), I'll split the gate channel out to two additional VCO's and then use channel 3 and channel 4 as pitch sequencers for those oscillators. You could also do the opposite and use channel 3 and 4 as additional gate channels to create drum rhythms (which don't need a pitch sequence).

It could control the extra vco and the mb2s vco(s) simultaneously with an different sequence ?
That's a lot of space saved :)

EDITED Mar 2nd 2020, 22:02

Just jumping in with a quick comment (don't have the time atm to do a full rundown) but I wanted to make sure you knew that the Minibrute 2s actually has three completely independent sequencer channel outs. The first has two outs (pitch + gate), while the other two each have a single out (either pitch OR gate OR generic voltage). With that in mind, I'm not sure you need the metropolis unless there's a fourth gate/pitch you need that you can't generate or derive from elsewhere.

Hey Lugia, I was hoping for your comment...always a positive criticism. I reflected all day about your words...there was something about the system was not convincing me as much. Frankly is the x-time I came across the idea of making my modular, and this time I really don't want to leave all again.

I tried to rebuild part of the system according to your thoughts...it was lacking vcas so I inserted some mini doepfer modules, they are all cost effective and I assume they do their job well. Again, I add more EGs (Erica and Quadra) and substituted the higly cost ADDAC mixer with a cheap Doepfer real stereo mixer.

As you can see the whole cost of the system decreased a bit, but obviously not by 1500 dollars as you said. I trust you when you say that a system should be run for years and years...if is possible I don't want to keep changing modules, so is better to take correct solution from the start.

What can you say now? It can be a step ahead? Could you please suggest something? I'm a bit depressed right now and I hope in a positive response. Despite rush is always not good I hope to perform the system as soon as possible.

Thanks again,

Marco

Glad it wasn't just me. I threw together a board of a bunch of Donner Pedals, sorted by input dimensions.

Donner mis-match

If you look at the two on the left (or the two on the right), they have exactly the same size, are cropped well, but wildly different sizes.

Seems to be a bigger issue than just getting the pedal dimensions right or cropping.

-- HoboPelican

Sometimes the machines rebel and the automatism does not work. So see the note from further up:

So if the autocrop does not work uploaded PNGs that were edited with an external software indeed give the best results.

I have reworked the pictures, your pedalboard looks good now.

Here's an example from me :
https://www.modulargrid.net/p/pedalboards/view/899593

(sorry must have deleted the old one)

The model feT on the left was my old (and now unnecessary) attempt at adding the pedal, with the 93 x 116 mm dimensions of the Hammond 1590BB. Next to it is a pedal with a 118mm height that's clearly completely different, and next to that is someone else's attempt at a model feT, with 148mm height that's still not as tall as the 118mm of the Sea Machine in the middle.
-- jacobstoker

The Model feT image was a PNG, with a surrounding transparent surface.
See note from further up:

if you upload a PNG there is no auto image processing involved.
So if the autocrop does not work uploaded PNGs that were edited with an external software indeed give the best results.

I have corrected all pictures of your pedals. Everything should fit now.

Maybe something like that but i'm sure there are possible improvements.
The sequencer would be used by the graphic vco.

EDITED Mar 4th 2020, 10:33

We now have 150Gb more space. Will see how long that goes. It does not sound much but daily backups must still be manageable.
Performance looks good here.

I am seeing slow loading of Racks for the past 24 hours. I am also seeing errors when I attempt to make a screenshot. Is anyone seeing the same issues?
-- studiobysbox

Thanks for reporting.

As for the speed, it's probably yet more Chinese and/or Indonesian spammers trying to get into MG.
-- Lugia

This time the reason is quite simple: the filesystem ran out of space from the million screenshots. Cache files and screenshots can not be generated anymore.
I am looking to free some space or buy more webspace from unicorn money. Maybe we will have a little downtime...

Hello,
Here my first attempt to carefully start a Rackbrute6U (+ a minibrute2S.)
My musical synth tastes are very various, for instance : Tangerine Dream, Depeche Mode, Infected Mushroom, Perturbator.

My very first goal is to be able to get some space/alien/experimental sounds. (So more on the side of Tangerine Dream , Pink Floyd, etc ... i love the old progressive bands weird sounds.)
So i plan to add a Multi Effect (DSP2 ?), Rings (?) and some utility modules which i think will always be useful
Am i on the right way ? Is the DSP2 versatile enough ?

Then my second, future, goal will be to add a VCO, maybe an Erica Synths Graphic VCO (+a sequencer+filter+LFO, etc. ... maybe a random module ?)
My third goal will probably about adding a sampler ... if there is enough space remaining. But this is another story...

I will take all the necessary time to avoid bad moves. It may take months or even a couple of years, there is no hurry. My goal is also to avoid overflowing the Rackbrute 6U so i need versatile modules.

EDITED Mar 4th 2020, 18:29

I’m new to modular, but not to synths.
Now i wish to accomplish something that’s not possible with my desktop instruments. Generative ambient music (like everybody else :-)
I have not bought anything yet so feel free to criticize my plans in a brutal way ;-)
I have read a lot of comments here at MG and hope I have got a basic understanding of what I need for generative patching but I know I have a lot more to learn.
Which of my suggested modules can I skip and which modules that I do not have in my rack is essential for generative patching.

Thank you for your constructive criticism.

Fixing the screenshots: the transfer of your rack data into a pure graphic file can be a little dicey on MG. What's necessary is to pull up a screenshot of the rack in question, then refresh it. For some reason, MG likes to "lock" on certain build stages, and by hitting reload you can "thwack" it into putting the proper result in place. Once refreshed (and this really should be a "must do" every time you're prepping a screenshot), then everything displays as it should.

As for the speed, it's probably yet more Chinese and/or Indonesian spammers trying to get into MG. There was a massive problem with that until the REcaptcha was implemented, but my bet is that MG's still on a list of "sites you can use as a text-based toilet for your bullshit" in the spam community, ergo sometimes you might see something like an accidental DDOS attack going on occasionally. Just wait...it'll ease up.

Well, it doesn't look great and make a lot of sense to ME! How do you expect to control amplitudes with no VCAs? True, the Quintet has them...but that module's probably going to be quite busy with audio duties, leaving no linear, DC-coupled VCAs to control amplitudes over mod signals via envelopes, LFOs, etc.

Definitely a "sexy" build...but in my book, that's not a good thing. Frankly, I would start over with your basic essentials, but the second time around, add more utility things...VCAs, more envelopes (I tend to view the Maths as an insanely-complex LFO, which is the sort of thing it does very well), and simpler things that are overcomplicated here (like using a $500 mixer as your audio VCAs when the fact is that it can't output stereo, ergo no real need for a stereo out even with the Mimeophon, etc). Really, really ask yourself "Do I truly need this in here?" and don't be afraid to be utterly brutal when making these considerations. Fact is, you could probably cut about $1500-2000 OUT of the cost on this by avoiding the bells-n-whistles modules and simply patching what you want out of "primitives".

Here's a nice rule of thumb to follow: price of module / hp count of module = cost per hp of a given module. Keeping this simple formula in mind when choosing modules, along with the other criteria in use, will go a long way to avoiding superfluous stuff in a build. Try and keep that figure under $25/hp, and you're golden...but when you look at some of what's here, well...the ADDAC 802, f'rinstance, comes in at $41.58/hp. Unless there's a very specific reason for including modules that are that costly, this is something you might want to keep in check, as it leads to both "sexy module syndrome" and the horror of cost-spiraling.

Remember: this is a process. Creating a build like this takes time and diligent pruning at the setup, which MG makes easier and relatively painless. But it still doesn't erase the fact that coming up with an effective modular that'll be usable for years actually takes quite a long time and a lot of work. And a lot of study; don't be fooled by the snazzy looks, what you need to be concerned with is BEHIND the panels.

Actually, anything that outputs a constant beat can be used as a clock if you have something which can extract that audio and convert it into clock pulses. All you'd need is a very tight bandpass filter (as in 1/10th octave or tighter) and the conversion tool of choice (I use a Truetone Time Bandit myself), and you could lock your DAW (or most anything else) to some ancient 1960s drum machine or even beats on prerecorded audio. Been doing variations on this for years, and it works pretty well.

As for an additional clock or modules to modify clocking, yeah, you DO want those. Let's say, for example, that you want an event to hit every other measure on beat 3. Your track is in 4/4, you can easily get a quarter-note pulse, your sequencer has 16 steps, and your loops are 4 measures. You COULD tie up a sequencer channel to do this, true...but the more efficient solution would be to use something like an EMW Pulse Counter. Send the quarter-note pulses in, send a pulse from steps 1 and 9 to the Reset function, and take your specific trigger pulse out of step 7 for...well, most anything. Or send your clock gates into one side of an AND gate, and then the output of a comparator to the other, and set the comparator so that as long as the note CV coming out of the sequencer is over a certain pitch, the AND gate will pass your pulses on to another sequencer ONLY when the "high state" is present both from the comparator AND clock. Neat way to add a tessitura line on your sequence line AND have the machine do it so you can twiddle with something else.

...and so on....

Yes, same issue here.

This all makes a lot of sense and looks great to me! Now, I would start with the first core modules, maybe build one complete voice and experiment how much you can get out of that and then slowly build into your drum voice and your second voice. It can feel overwhelmingly slow, but I'm glad I did this because it gave me time to learn what interfaces and patterns I really enjoyed and which ones I disliked, things I couldn't have anticipated.

I am seeing slow loading of Racks for the past 24 hours. I am also seeing errors when I attempt to make a screenshot. Is anyone seeing the same issues?