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That's odd...I'd suggest checking with both KMM and Ableton on this, since it seems to me that this device is perfect for Ableton work. Did you check to see if it'll play nice with the native ASIO driver?

Streaming a live session for The Bl33p Bl00p Collective. Hope you enjoy it.

Oh yes, Jingo is back! :-)

Hi Jingo,

That's a lovely track, wow what did I miss your music, I just realise! :-) Beautiful done, nice tense, building that tense up and oh no, now I am getting goose bumps as well...

To shortcut the prose... I wish every new year starts with a track of yours like this! Now this is what I call a fantastic entrance into 2021! Thank you very much for this and I wish you a Happy New Year too! Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

Looks like that besides a Noise Engineering fan you also become a WMD fan ;-)

So what is going to happen with your Stillson when your WMD Metron arrives, does the Stillson becomes... kind of jobless? :-( and ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

In this case though, what other modules could I add to create something interesting?

It depends what you are interested in! If you click through the modules here you will find many video clips showing what they do. Alternatively maybe try VCV Rack and experiment with some things to find out what you like?

• Can I use the A-138o also as an attenuator before the befaco output?

Yes, but there is not much point, since the Befaco module has an output attenuator.

• Why I need also an attenuator for input? In this system I have only midi as input signal, I'm probably wrong but I want to understand.

For an audio input to the modular you will need an amplifier of some kind, not an attenuator, otherwise the audio will be much too quiet compared to the modular gear. For MIDI input this is not relevant, you just need a MIDI-CV converter.

• On the Digitone or Octatrack you can sequence multiple tracks so what can I use to split my midis into cv?

It depends on the converter, but different MIDI channels or cc messages could be different CV signals.

Hi Marchettijes,

Welcome to modular synths! :-) The A-138o has a Main Level knob only but with the A-138p module you can per channel use the Gain and the Level knobs to adjust your signal and that's good enough. I use the A-138p & A-138o combination and I am pretty happy with it. Only one little side remark the A-138p does bleed a little bit, but only a little bit and it would only disturb people like me who are very sensitive to any kind of side noises otherwise you would barely hear it and if you aren't as over-sensitively as I am, you don't need to be worried about that little bleeding issue (it's barely audible, but for me it is).

Keep in mind that you need at least one A-138p module and just one A-138o module, then you have a four-channel (performance) mixer. In the future if you need more channels you just add one more A-138p module and you got yourself then an eight-channel mixer :-) You can extend more A-138p modules to get even more channels.

Regarding the Doepfer A-190-x modules, those MIDI to CV modules, I had the Doepfer A-190-5 module in the past and I didn't like it, somehow not logical in use, difficult to set the MIDI parameters, just not easy to use. I exchanged that module against the Vermona - qMI2 module and that one is great, 4 channels (like the A-190-5) and it's so easy and so logical to use, no problems with that module.

I am usually very positive about Doepfer modules however the A-190-x modules are the exception, those A-190-x modules, I can not recommend them.

Good luck and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Very cool! Well done.

Amazing!

This is an interesting point, before deciding to start building a modular synth I wanted to integrate the Neutron into the setup but I thought that starting from the basics it could help me learn a lot more (also if costs much more).
I might also consider integrating the neutron directly into the eurorack and adding a few more modules to further customize the sound, even to get started with the modular system. In this case though, what other modules could I add to create something interesting?

About the spaces I knew I had made many mistakes but this is the first draft, not knowing the brands and models well I trusted a few reviews and guides (for the wasp filter and for adsr for example).

As for the question what I would like to add to my sound, I cannot answer because so far I have experimented a lot only on ableton and with the digitone (I will add the Analog Rytm for the drums), in short, the goal would be to start producing everything out of daw, or almost.

Other questions:
- Can I use the A-138o also as an attenuator before the befaco output?
- Why I need also an attenuator for input? In this system I have only midi as input signal, I'm probably wrong but I want to understand.
- On the Digitone or Octatrack you can sequence multiple tracks so what can I use to split my midis into cv?

thanks :)

the triple sloth sequences the arbhar and is quantized by the sinfonion, the triple sloth is also patched to nearly every cv in the arbhar has. The arbhar itself uses one of its buffers which has a voice from the piston honda sampled. I take the output directly from an erica synths mixer (where the arbhar is patched to) into my allen&heath qu-pac, there is nothing else involved (in the recording), I go totally dawless... I hope I could explain it a bit :)...

EDITED Jan 3rd 2021, 20:39

Lovely track- how did you sequence and record it? I am experimenting with different recording, mixing and sequencing options so always love to hear on best ways to go about it.

Happy New YeaR :)),

best,
jingo

ps: please tell me how you like it...

EDITED Jan 3rd 2021, 19:42

Check out: Maths, Plaits, Pamela's New Workout, Disting

You can do a basic mix and output with 4ms Listen instead of the array of modules needed in the current configuration

EDITED Jan 4th 2021, 16:46

Stereo trigger out from Wing Pinger goes into Ladik Probability --> Strike on Optomix
Stereo step out from Wing Pinger goes into 1/v oct on each STO

On the mixer, there a few comments :
1. The Doepfer A-138p is only half a mixer; you also need the A-138o for outputs.
2. Four channels is certainly not too much, maybe not enough as your system grows.
3. If you are using other instruments as well as the modular, you are probably better off doing the mixing on a "normal" mixer, outside of the rack. Eurorack signals are much higher than line level and it's easier to turn down the modular to line level, than to boost the other instruments to euro level. Eurorack mixers are also very expensive compared to normal mixers.

Sequencing from the Electron machines will surely work well. I don't know the Doepfer MIDI-CV interface but it does not have very many outputs, so you will quickly reach its limits. And by quickly I mean immediately: you could control one voice with this. You might look at some options with more outputs; Expert Sleepers make some very popular options.

More generally, this is small case, so you would do well to consider the size of the modules you are putting in there. There are small alternatives for many. Mostly obviously, the multiples have no controls, so why not choose a 2hp sized version? Many manufacturers make these. Same question about the ADSR and the attenuators.

As it stands, this set up is a one-oscillator monosynth. For this purpose you need two envelopes : one for the filter and one for the VCA, but you only have one. If you want to combine envelopes with your LFO you also need a CV mixer. The Happy Nerding 3xMIA or Befaco A*B+C are good options but there are many others.

On the other hand, can this do anything your Analogue Rytm can't? That's a genuine question -- I don't now the capabilities of that machine. Did you consider any semi-modulars? Moog Mother-32 or Behringer Neuron are much more capable than the rack you present above, and also cost less. I would consider a bit more what you want to add to your existing music, and start your rack from that.

Hey, doesn't look to bad to me. But I might not be the biggest pro around here. Just three remarks:
A. You can post the link to your rack here, not just the jpg. With that link other users can make copies of your rack with some additional tips. Just drop in the link without any other things, and it will show the graphic inline. Like this:
(got the link from your profile)
B. You'll probably have a hard time finding the old befaco output, the recent one can be found as befaco output v3 and is a great output module with an additional queue switch to pre-listen to another signal via the headphone out.
C The multiple is nice, but it could also be done with stacked cables or these floating multiples. Not as pretty when pached, but you win rack space. https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/befaco-multiple/

Okay after looking into the rack there is more: Also you need some input module to make sure the signal from outside is on modular level, line signal will be to quiet and you could fry your outside gear just plugging it into the modular without any safety inbetween.

Next one is your performance mixer. You only added the 138p(Vintage) which will also need the 138o(Vintage or not) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/doepfer-a-138ov to output something. And the 138o will not replace the befaco output but would be additionally required. Plus point the 128o has an aux in so one signal can be added to your rack from the outside.

Hi everyone! I decide for a while to build my first modular synth, I have read many posts and articles about first racks and how you can do it but I still have a lot of doubts (and error on the draft setup).
The idea of the setup is quite simple. For the rhytm part I use the Rytm mk1 while I would like to sequence the modular synth with the Digitone (which I will replace with octatrack mk1 or 2 when I can) and also use it for Fx (reverb, delay chorus).
Here it is the draft about eurorack ( https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1424957.jpg ), I think its a good idea to start with a very simple system. If the kind of music can help you I'm focussing on raw and loopy techno.

I put the Doepfer A-138pV cause I like the idea to live control (also with On/off switch) the various layers but maybe 4 channels is too much.
Also I don't know if the midi to cv from Doepfer can fit with this setup or if there are better solutions, same for the output module.
In this way, however, I would have only two layers where I can mix and master for the track, one from digitone (with digitone and modular sounds) and the rytm session. Could it work?

I know there is a bit of confusion but I tried to explain the situation as well as possible, any advice / suggestion / teaching is welcome.
This is my first approach to the world of modular synthesis and I would like to detach myself from the PC as much as possible (using it only for some sequencer or only for mix and master the final track would be an excellent result).

Thanks everyone for your time!

p.s. as case if think that this one could be a great solution, Doepfer A-100LC6v Low Cost Case VE (thomann)

EDITED Jan 3rd 2021, 16:01

Hello, pay attention to my page, I will propose one in about 1 month ;)
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/vendors/view/724
Christian

One other to consider: Folktek's Quiet. This should also be a VCA-based mute judging from the operation. Plus, the Quiet functions on ANY signal from audio to clocking and everything in between.
-- Lugia

cool didnt know about this one,thanks

i will have alot more Dark Ambient finished this month:)

@the-erc, nice sounds ace and fun video.

I have some sequencers hopefully arriving next week as my birthday present and another percussion module. Should be fun once I get mine sorted and recorded.

And here's the video.

I had some camera issues so there is ~10 minute of blackout in the middle. Sorry about that!

Nice Lugia,

I need to check out those Tascam recorder units. In the short term, I have basic recording of the modular covered but long term will need a better solution. I was disappointed to find out that I could not get the USB of my Keith McMillen K-mix unit to be recognized by Ableton DAW as a plugin or external instrument. That would have been nice as it is supposed to already have an audio interface built in.

Sure is...I actually use a TASCAM field recorder for just that purpose (plus...well, field recording), specifically a DR-680 mkii. It's capable of eight tracks (6 individual + a stereo pair), which is useful live because I can put backgrounds for a show on the stereo pair, then use the other six tracks for live recording and any other prerecorded bits that need to be on their own.

Agree with you @Lugia,

I have enough channels between my eurorack mixer and audio interface to dump but long term I will need something with more inputs like the MOTU audio interface that can take 8 inputs from my modular system so I can split up tracks and be able to cleanly remix in the DAW. That and an ES9 would be ace for me. If I ever perform live with my modular post-COVID, something quick and easy like a Zoom recorder or 4ms wav recorder would be a simple way to capture live performances for later import to a PC and DAW.

One other to consider: Folktek's Quiet. This should also be a VCA-based mute judging from the operation. Plus, the Quiet functions on ANY signal from audio to clocking and everything in between.

If you've got enough channels in the converter to support your audio AND CV/gate/trig needs, then yeah...just go with that. But if you're starting to run out, then the ES-9 is a possible choice...as would be a cheap ADAT Lightpipe-capable DC-coupled interface added to the existing one. It really depends on how much $$$ you've got to spend.

There's quite a few USB power modules out now from the likes of Doepfer, VOID, Endorphin.es, Pulplogic (for "standard" tile rows), Intellijel (for Intellijel tile rows), Konstant Lab, Frap, and Synthrotek. The Doepfer one would actually be fairly interesting in the middle of the top row on a larger build, as it can support four inexpensive USB gooseneck lights. Put two short and two long ones on this, arrange suitably...very cool results.

Also check out Piston Honda and Hertz Donut these can do intense dark drones with ease. For ambient chill drones, the Mutable Instruments stuff is super ace. I really like Plaits into Rings then using Marbles for some nice relaxing ambience like this one:

I also wondered. Only thing I found is "LAMP-1 and LAMP-2 modules", but they are sold out.
Am still searchin

I don't think so. NE's description states that the Muta Jovis is primarily meant for gates and triggers, but will mute audio too. That leads me to believe that it will not sound as natural as the DivKid.
-- farkas

thanks think i will have to go with the divkid version then:)

I don't think so. NE's description states that the Muta Jovis is primarily meant for gates and triggers, but will mute audio too. That leads me to believe that it will not sound as natural as the DivKid.

does the muta jovis have vactrols like the mutes from divkid,to prevent clicks when using the switches?

yes yes please. have two racks and also want to see/try move to one bigger. sure can create and add 1 by 1 modules...:)

Other point is a lot of modules can have different functions, but not at once.
-- zuggamasta

Exactly. The existence of Disting is why this feature won't work.

@lugia -- I remember a long post you made a while ago called something like "Why you shouldn't get into modular". This should be a sticky in the forum. Does that count as a feature request?

And this brings up another point: modular is the most amazing, liberating non-essential in electronic music. Yep, you read that right...they AREN'T essential. They're a working modality that allows you to get at that extra 10% of capabilities that you can't get to from a prepatched or patchable synth.
-- Lugia

I think this expresses the most why I would also not recommend the "automated list of functions", for a rack. While also signing that the small builds are sidecars. Modulars are amazing and should be machines/instruments that are suited to YOUR needs. Problem is just a lot of guys and gals here seem to not read into this before, so they don't see their needs but just their wants, e.g. morphagene or that crazy new oscillator.
So you get builds with only oscillators and no modulation, or no output modules.

Other point is a lot of modules can have different functions, but not at once. How would the system know if you use the befaco Rampage as two LFO or as ENV + OSC in your patch? You cannot list it to have 2 LFOs, 2 EGs and 2 OSC as they are exclusive from one another. This is the point where you need an actual brain to make sense of the build. The automated list would probably just give false hopes.

TTSH is placed between lower 1U row and 3U row

@Lugia,

I had the best success dumping audio from my modular mixer to my audio interface and recording into Ableton quickly and easily after some setup. Now I can quickly record my patches from modular and edit later in the DAW. So, would spending the money on an Expert Sleepers ES-9 or a 4ms wav recorder module be worth it? Since I have my audio interface and computer right next to my modular systems, it is not difficult to record now direct.

I scored a deal on the VC8 Erogeneous Tones and Radar so figure perfect for my 14u MDLR case. Hex VCA and Intellijel are fine choices and I have those in my other cases. I find that better to have more VCA and support tools and modulation sources than to be without.

Mastered some fun techno beats

Hertz Donut MK3 sequenced by Stillson Hammer MK3
WMD Percussion modules

Also true here...but then, if people would stop watching these YouTube videos where some guy who doesn't look like he's done ANYTHING in his studio (ie: it looks like your great-aunt's "Living Room" you weren't allowed to go into as a kid, with the plastic covers over the furniture that was intended "for company") believes he's managed to cram all the functionality of an ARP 2600 into a 40 hp Pod. Or at least, he's trying to convince you that he has.

Meanwhile, over here in REALITY, we've got a pile of builds designed (and even built) by experienced synthesists that people can study to their heart's content. Sure, we ain't got none of that newfangled "video" and all that, but just like you might wind up getting more out of READING Shakespeare's "Romeo & Juliet" over watching whatever the hell it was that Baz Luhrman did to it, people still want the video because "it's easier". Then, when this results in some unplayable little box of yuck, they figure that this is what modular is all about...when it's not.

But then...you run into the issue where you've got builders making very function-specific builds. Now THESE often work as small "sidecar" devices, and it's REALLY what those small cabs are meant for, IMHO. But as a way to make an "affordable, small" modular? Nah. Even those of us who know how this might be done don't even do that, because we know it'll be very restrictive and no fun at all to work with. At least, not without something larger to interface it with.

And this brings up another point: modular is the most amazing, liberating non-essential in electronic music. Yep, you read that right...they AREN'T essential. They're a working modality that allows you to get at that extra 10% of capabilities that you can't get to from a prepatched or patchable synth. But for a lot of the people out there, well...it's sort of like giving someone from the 17th century a smartphone. I would have to say that about HALF of the people who get on here with this idea that a modular will make them "hot", musically, are barking up the wrong tree. THERE IS NO DEVICE THAT CAN MAKE YOU A STAR. None. Your musical capabilities are what does this. Not a specific boxful of circuitry, no matter how it works, no matter what it does, and no matter what it might cost.

Case in point: techno. All of the guys in Detroit and Chicago who were the ones who kicked all of that off in the first half of the 1980s (yep! NOT later!) were working with...well, no modulars that I know of. There WAS a lot of "we pay you"-type junk from pawn shops and music store back closets, most notably Roland's biggest flop, the TB-303. And accordingly, it was with the TB-303 that Chi's Larry Heard (as Mr. Fingers) did "Washing Machine"...which is where Acid came from, back c. 1987. And in fact, the point that all of these guys worked with analog synths (also pretty untrue) was mainly due to the advent of DIGITAL synthesizers such as the DX7, D-50, M-1 and so on. Everyone rushed to those newer/shinier synths and dumped their "crummy old" analogs. So at the time of the "Belleville 3" getting going over in Tha D, those were cheap and plentiful, and saw use alongside some "toy" synths such as the DX100 and CZ-101 (neither of which I would consider to be a "toy"!) and old step-sequenced drum machines such as the TR-606, 808, and 909. And no modulars. None. Zip. Zero. All of that came LATER...especially in the wake of Aphex Twin's hype about his "custom-built modular synthesizer"...which was actually a trio of off-the-shelf MS-20s that had been recased together with a few extra bits added.

So do you REALLY need a modular? Depends. The question is probably better framed as "Have you reached the endpoint of the capabilities of existing, prebuilt synthesizers?" If yes, then sure, you'll benefit from this. But if NOT...either you want one to really dig in on your synthesis chops (GOOD use) or because blinkenlichts und tvistenknobs = KEWL (BAD use). But if what you need is a visual prop...hell, just go visit a junkyard and find a bunch of scrapped industrial process control panels and hook 'em up with new lights and a bunch of 555 timers for the "lightshow". You'll get as much out of that prop as you will if you intend to use a several-grand modular rig as...well, a prop.

EDITED Jan 2nd 2021, 04:31

Agree and I have one and prefer my Intellijel and Erogeneous Tones VCAs at least they have LEDs for polarity and activity with CV inputs.
-- sacguy71

I looked at the Erogenous Tones, but I couldn't pass up the cost on the Hex. I also have the Intellijel. I think I'm going to end up with an assortment. I just ordered a dual Doepfer to dedicate next to my VCO bank.

Nope, no ES-3. Just do a little scrounging. and you can beat the cost on that thing. FYI, this IS how you'd hook the ES-3 up as well...but we're going "cheap-n-dirty" here, getting much the same result for about 1/3rd the price.
-- Lugia

Ok thanks Lugia, maybe another silly question but, does that mean I would need a load of 1/4 to 1/8 cables? Also if I didn’t want to go down the “cheap-n-dirty” route, would an ES8 or ES3+6 do the job? Just trying to understand ALL the options :)
-- clivevass

Probably does mean that, yes. But then, I'd have to ask: if you're working with modular synths, why don't you have a pile of these cables already?

Now, as for the Expert Sleepers modules vs. a DC-coupled interface, well...they're the same thing, actually. In fact, with the ES-3, 8 and so on, the same lightpipe hookup method would apply. Where the difference is in in PRICE...

Just now, I did a swing through Reverb, looking at the MOTU 828s...first version and the mkii (like my own). The earliest 828 can do this, too...it's also DC-coupled. But where the several used MOTUs I saw were in a $100-150 range, the ES-3 mkiv streets at $239. And if you consider an ES-8, that's $475. And actually, the ES-8 is closer to what the MOTU interfaces offer, since the ES-3 is output-only, and both the ES-8 and MOTU method allow signals from the modular to be sent back into the DAW, and these could range from using your modular clock as the DAW's master to full-on stereo (or more) audio recording directly from the modular's outputs.

And it already is...go up to the top header on the splash page, and you'll find the MG "Marketplace".

Despite the fact that I have and use a Davolisint, I would never, EVER recommend a synth that has NO VCF. I even got a Waldorf 2-Pole for the Davoli, in fact!

The above build is missing so much stuff that my Davoli actually seems over-featured by comparison. Damn...

Great idea Garfield!

I scored a good deal on the Hertz Donut and Stillson Hammer which is why I ended up getting them. They work well together.

true and also guilty... hahaha

but let's face it, it is generally good advice

start with 1 less module and a bigger case

Hey Sacguy71,

Isn't that a great title for your new track? "The Gun Shots From Sacramento" ;-)

I keep forgetting that you got an Octratrack, you can do beautiful things with that one too!

I wish Hertz Donut was about half the price, I never see a good offer on that one here but I will keep an eye on it, you never know if one day indeed a good offer is available for this interesting module.

Kind regards and take care, Garfield.

Nice Garfield,

Sounds fun. I will do some recordings and videos once my Metron and Eloquencer arrive hopefully by end of next week. I figure that will give me two solid sequencers in my two larger cases and then have smaller sequencer/clock in my 6U case. Now I just a larger studio space house and to get out of the ghetto downtown area.

Hi Sacguy71,

With some delay I received yesterday the E950 Circuit Bent VCO from Synthesis Technology, so lots of (Texas Instruments) speech fun. So busy with that one that my Vector has to wait a bit longer. I need some hours in one stretch so I can give it a serious start at the Vector (I actually did already but I need even more time to go a bit deeper into it); still hoping to return to my Vector soon. So one thing I decided is that I am not going to buy further modules for a while so I have time to explore a bit more the E950 and the Vector.

I hope you receive your Metron soon :-) Kind regards, Garfield.