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Thanks for the responses. I can't remember seeing a thread specifically about module arrangement and maintenance, so I figured it might be a good discussion/thought exercise. This is a craft that revolves around long term gear acquisition in a way, and with that comes some occasional headaches.
Lugia, that's definitely similar to the signal/work flow idea I initially started with (and looks like a fun rack). Now that I've expanded to near my limit, added a few hardware pieces, and developed my personal preferences, I had to upset the apple cart. Spent all afternoon re-racking everything (God bless threaded rails, and screw some sliding nuts. Ugh!) after realizing that I preferred some modules in close reach regardless of how illogical their placement might seem to someone else. I'm thinking the new layout should keep me focused on creativity for a while. I may add a Low Gain Short Bus and a Knob Farm Ooots eventually, but I can't think of anything else I need to add for a while.
Would love to hear anyone else's approach to this minor tedious aspect of modular.

EDITED Jan 18th 2021, 22:17

Actually, I did a build just the other day that's a good example of how I proceed with groupings and flow:

OK...so, in this setup, the TOP row is audio sources and modifiers. And in that row, things flow from left (the A-119) to right (Veils).

Then the next row is random sources and modulation manipulation until you get to the QPLFO, then you're in modulation source territory. Dead-center in that are the key manipulation modules for CV and modulation, in this case they're a SISM and another Veils. The idea here is that you can spread the outputs from this to patchpoints above and below the row, which would make it easier to differentiate between your audio path and the various mod sources/destinations.

Bottom row has a Hermod which is also intended to drive an M32...so in the lower-left corner, you have the Hermod, the MScale, and a dual lag generator for direction-dependent portamento with two of the Hermod outputs. Then we get back into audio, as the system's effect processing sits between the lag gen and the mixer. This particular build ALSO had an emphasis on looping, so I co-located the two looping modules (Morphagene, DLD) near the mixer since they should be pulling audio from it and then sending it back there. Then at the row's end, you see a 3xMIA for summing when needed, a Mixology performance mixer, and an Isolator for output isolation, plus it adds some transformers which you can 'hit' a little hard for a touch of warmth from transformer saturation.

So, when you study this, the Hermod is where the various CVs originate...and flow upwards to the top row, with the ability to make use of the Verbos Random Sampling's analog shift register for arpeggiation/tesselation purposes. Then the signal flow goes across that top audio row, and back down to the mixer, with the modulation row able to "hit" anything in either the top or bottom rows.

Now, if you've ever had the pleasure of working with an ARP 2600, this flow pattern should seem familiar. Technically, the 2600 has two "rows" to it, with the EGs actually being in the top row before the VCA, and the output/reverb mixer is also up there. But otherwise, the builds I do tend to replicate something of that same pattern...because it's worked for 50 years, so why change? Alan Pearlman and his team nailed the flow on that synth, and LOADS of synths since then follow their own variations on it. The only time I deviate from this is when the top row is stuffed with sources, and the audio modifiers have to go downward along the right side. In that case, I defer to Nyle Steiner's Synthacon design, placing the CV/mod modules to the left end, and filters, waveshapers, LPGs, etc on the right so that you can easily break out mod sources to go to the other end of the row(s) for use there. Again, this lets the modulation, etc "fan out" from its section to wherever those signals are needed in the audio path.

Right, toodee...there's not exactly "patch examples" for something like the MISO, because it's such a CV/mod control workhorse, there's not really any "basic" way to use it. It's more of a "Swiss Army Knife" for those signals...and the best way to approach it is probably to look at it as a cross between a CV processor and a controller for the CV/mod levels/routings. In short, it's got a bazillion uses, and how the OP uses it probably will differ from how anyone else uses it.

Wow...that's super-annoying! You'd think there'd be some indication of connections/polarity on those.

What you've got with the supply wiring is that the builder used red for BOTH "hot" legs and the black wire should be the common ground. Very dumb...because -12V isn't at all the same as +12V. What I would suggest is this:

Grab your multimeter, first off. If you don't have one, get one...these sorts of issues are precisely why EVERYONE doing electronic music needs one of these on hand. So, what you need to do is to check the pin header continuity, since these are invariably the same on ALL distros. So, start here: http://www.doepfer.de/home_e.htm and go to "Technical Details A-100" where you'll find the pin-out diagrams for the 16-pin standard Eurorack power/bus connection.

Next, check continuity. Put one probe onto the -12V rail pins, then see which of the two red wires it corresponds to. Once you know that, the same pin-out will apply across ALL of the distros. And you'll also know which wires need to be changed out to a different color...I suggest something that you can tell at a glance, such as white. Keep the +12V as red. And yeah...the supply lines from the AC switch shouldn't be changed, as there shouldn't be any DC polarity issues until AFTER the P/S unit.

As for that linear DC honker...that thing has enough current capacity that you'd have to really work at trying to overload it. And like I noted, when the P/S is running way under-spec, it runs cooler, and cooler means better operating conditions for it and most everything else. The stability on it should be rock-solid!

Looks like everythings back... After some more thought, I think its possible to make a Cs-l work in there (though this will probably be a purchase later on down the road if it’s working out) . Might be tight on VCAs/Mixers if I try to go for a standard 3/4 voice setup, but if they are all talking to eachother, I think it could work. Put in the Bastl Grandpa to make the sample voice a little more functional and less static. Belgrad also seems like a great complement filter to add some character and also having a varied sound to get some different stuff out of it. Also moving away from the effects thinking, just the 2hp delay and the Desmodus Versio (as send effect) would fit everything I need.

Ultimately, if I can make this many voices work in such a small space, I think this will be able to cover a really nice variety of sounds. And the modulation allows for some exciting intermingling of control.

EDITED Jan 18th 2021, 20:11

I try to leave my modules in place as long as possible, because a) it's just no fun (even with knurlies) b) there's always a chance of plugging in something wrong (even with shrouded headers on the bus boards) and c) I hope I don't spread FUD but I've read somewhere that the Eurorack connectors are in fact spec'd for a number of re-connections that's in the double digits… [citation needed!] and I prefer not to test my luck too much. Still, I think I've rearranged >50% of my rack two or three times last year.

I have certain classic synth voice combos that I leave patched for a very long time. Also, I don't feel I need to mess with final fx->mixer->outputs wiring too often. In general I go blank slate when I feel like I'm completely stuck or actually done with a track. But that means I sometimes live with a patch for weeks and it gets very messy fast.

All that said, I do wish it was easier to rearrange everything. I agree, this thing does seem to have a life of its own. And the way modules are arranged has a huge influence on my patches. Most boring case, because I'm running out of long cables and mults…

EDITED Jan 18th 2021, 16:08

Just noticed that it has been exactly one year to the day since I ordered my first modules. However mediocre and intolerable the sonic outcome of my creative endeavors, the fun, creativity, process, and community has made the last year a great experience, all things considered. :)
In the time since, I've put together a pretty nice instrument for myself. Adding cases and modules regularly to fill needs and wants, plugging holes in my racks, adding additional functionality, etc. I've tried to adjust the layout a bit at a time to accommodate new acquisitions, but the time has come to rearrange just about everything. I'm learning my own work and signal flow preferences, and trying to incorporate a more "performance oriented" layout.
Just curious how often you all rearrange your racks, if at all? At some point, a studio rack sort of takes on a life of its own. Do you all consistently rearrange modules to maintain your evolving workflow, or have you stopped trying to contain the beast? I'd much rather be experimenting and making some noise than unscrewing modules, so it would be cool to hear any insight into how you all approach this side of modular.
Thanks, and have a great day.

*Edit: Additional question, I have always started with a completely un-patched blank slate every day, but I'm moving towards leaving some module combos consistently patched. How often do you completely pull every patch cable and start over? What module combos do you leave plugged in long term?

EDITED Jan 18th 2021, 14:46

Just looked into the Noise Reap Paradox, and jep you're right. It's more than just a VCO. Looks and sounds frigging nice. I'll contact them today if they currently ship to the EU/Germany, as a lot of people have shipping issues right now.

I switched out the unity Panning Mixers form your build and added these 2hp ones as the PCB and front available at pushermann. Seems like mouser has everything I need in stock, too but I need to check local suppliers too.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/other-unknown-telexn
https://github.com/bpcmusic/TXn

It's probably a good idea anyway to have some wiggle room for the time I'm still in my jumpskiff.

Hi,

Not really instances of patch ideas but there are some included in the articles, if memory serves:

https://www.perfectcircuit.com/signal/methods

Make a search on the page for "Learning Synthesis". Some of it will be things you know, but there will also be a lot of information that you can add to your mental toolbox. For example, I suspect https://www.perfectcircuit.com/signal/learning-synthesis-logic will help you.

If you have some cash, the Patch & Tweak book or one of Chris Meyer's lessons could go a long way as well.

Hope this helps,
D.

Hey GarfieldModular,

Thanks for your comment !
I can only hope to perform in Cologne in the summer of 2021 but who knows... I keep my fingers crossed.

You're really lacking on ways to manipulate CV/mod signals here, so for 10 hp, I'd suggest a Tiptop MISO.
-- Lugia

Hi Lugia,
Can you explain a bit more ? I am totally a newbie in eurorack. it would be grateful if you can give me instances of the patch ideas.
I usually experiment CV signals with Maths and quad VCA (fed in with some LFOs)...well, perhaps I misunderstood something.

Thanks, Lugia! Can I ask you some stupid questions?

Thanks for the PS recommendation. Just ordered it :-)

What would I replace the red wire with? I would assume that the the red and black are either 12v or -12v--and I do have a problem knowing which is which.

Also, dumber question, I presume you're talking about the red wires going to the distro boards? And not the inputs from the power switch that attach to the PS?

I pulled up one of the boards and....amazingly...no writing whatsoever!

https://imgur.com/a/GDQFMT6

Hi Gabor,

He, he, nice video and fantastic music that goes along with it. A real nice combination of the both (video & music).

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Suddenbeach,

Wow, nice video! You got a lot of nice effects in the video as well as many nice, surprising & interesting sounds.

When will you perform in the Bonn/Cologne area? :-)

Thanks a lot for sharing and kind regards, Garfield.

This one?

-- defragmenteur

Yes. Thank you!

This one?

Address is broken, btw...close up that space before "view" so it'll show the build.
-- Lugia

It seems like a modulargrid issue and unfortunate time to post then :/

EDITED Jan 17th 2021, 21:52

The NTO, VCFS, and VCFQ are fantastic, I'd recommend all of them. Cold Mac is also pretty sweet, opens up lots of interesting interactions.

Address is broken, btw...close up that space before "view" so it'll show the build.

Hi there,

I’ve been making some good progress on my rack and was hoping I could get some feedback.

Would be nice to hear if anything you think is entirely missing. Also what else to fill in the rest. Seriously considering finishing the top row up with a second Mangrove - but on second thought the Cs-l sound amazing, and it fits perfectly, but definitely gets tight on mixers/vcas... Other things I’m considering:

• I’m looking for another sound source, but not exactly. 2 voices could be totally fine, but I think I’m considering adding something like an Arbhar to like spice things up a bit, not entirely sure. More effects sounds like the way to spread out my 2 sound sources to become many more things.
• another filter (more on the fun/sound design side, not too interested in like QPAS but could be wrong)
• a cold mac
• a waveshaper or a phaser or Feedback Juno 106 chorus
• another oscillator: either to a) modulate/carry and fm pair with mangrove, HO as well (could be ts-l, or anti-osc, or generate 3), or b) as another sound source, was thinking something like a basimilus would be fun but it’s a little too much. I’m trying to get closer to lead sounds because I just gravitate to bass stuff, so really open to suggestions here. The sample player is there for things like chords mostly (maybe vocals) so some kind of harmonic content in a way like that could be nice (thinking telharmonic/saich but they seem to have too much of a sound and can’t vary far from it) otherwise was also thinking of some Random Source stuff like the NTO and the VCFQ/VCFS. Also, have not been thrilled by the sounds of fm/complex synthesis just yet. Getting there with modulating the mangrove, though. So have given serious thought to a second mangrove.

Not sold on anything in the current rack except for the Verbos Harmonic Oscillator, Mannequins Mangrove and the Three Sisters. I am mainly thinking about how to best expand/complement these 3. Organic, warm. Thanks.

Edit: switched to a mantis to give it some more room..

EDITED Jan 19th 2021, 02:16

@Lugia,

Right? It is an occam's razor situation. I don't want to really buy much more for a while until I master the basics for my current setup. I am digging into the Euclidian Circles v2, Eloquencer and Mimetic Digitalis sequencers which are tons of fun and working on learning to create beats and melodies with the Hertz Donut, Trident, and Angle Grinder as well as Loquelic Iteritas Percido which is a complete synth voice. It is simple to make crude buzzing noise but melodies are far trickier as these can get unruly quickly. Especially the Hertz Donut and Angle Grinder! Those are beasts and feed 100 Grit distortion can get wild fast.

Hopefully if I can move into larger studio space this year...
-- sacguy71

Of course you realize that "larger studio space" just means you've got an excuse to cram even MORE gear into the studio!

I've got a rather different take on this. You're really lacking on ways to manipulate CV/mod signals here, so for 10 hp, I'd suggest a Tiptop MISO. Then, remove the 2 hp Mult to snag their spaces (build's too small for it anyway...use inline mults instead), and drop in a Noise Reap uLoaf, which is a dual LFO with some interesting interaction potentials between them. This leaves 1 hp, then...and I'd drop a 1 hp blank in between the Shuttle Control and the P/S module to get a little more space between the power and that other module...trying to avoid a little noise and crud getting into the audio path, basically.

Well, whoever the cab builder was, they did you a bit of disservice by not color-coding the +12V and -12V rail feeders. Hopefully there's indications marked on the backside of those distros (which, I should note, aren't too shabby...they've got filtering, for one thing), otherwise you'll have to figure out their manufacturer and then chase down the board info.

Once you figure out the two 12V rail polarities, I'd strongly recommend yanking the RED wiring for one of those rails and changing it out for some other color to avoid this issue in the future. But as for P/Ss that'll work here, I'd suggest going with this: https://www.newark.com/solahd/sld-12-3434-12t/power-supply-linear-12v-40-8w/dp/93K6589 Yes, it's expensive when compared to switching P/S units, but with a LINEAR supply like this, issues with the P/S leaking crud onto your DC rails become a non-issue. It's worth noting that Synthesizers.com's in-case supplies are also linear, as well as some other makers; even my Kevin Lightner-built Digisound has a honkin' big linear supply in it...and if Kevin Lightner signed off on it, it MUST be the right thing to use!

Oh...and you get 3.4A per 12V rail. Now THAT'S a beefy supply!

EDITED Jan 17th 2021, 19:36

very much appreciated for your advice. thanks to both of you.

Hey everyone!

This is the Eurorack travel case I used when I performed for Lostsonar Collective.

The filming took place in an abandoned factory close to the Polish border in Eastern Germany. Visuals made by Chun Li with Touch Designer.

Happy to have performed in this shitty period with a great professional team. It was freezing cold but it was worth it.

Cheers!

Superb information about both the Morphagene and the Nebulae, thanks for sharing!
I am chasing and uO_C so if you like to share some experience about it too, it would be great!

p.s. really love your music! The Leisure System set was f&%n awesome! I keep watching it again and again or have it palying in the background even when I work!

EDITED Jan 17th 2021, 12:56

Thank you for sharing, very interesting 🙂

I'm on the fence about getting a Maths, but have seen some interesting sequencing and harmonic destructuring processes ...

Yes, Disting is one of the best bang-for-the-buck utilities in the modular world. It can do everything, though only one function at a time, to help you decide when you it's time to invest in a dedicated module to perform a specific function. I bought one early on as I was building my rack, and it helped me fill in what I was missing. Now I mainly use it as a tuner, but every now and then I will dial in one of the other algorithms.
Have fun and good luck.

Patch info in the video descirption.

Hi there,

I bought this used case and I know what I think I see and what I need, but it'd be nice to have some experienced input.

Here are some images (the last one is probably the best):

https://imgur.com/a/1mL8PGt

So what I think I see is a bunch of distribution boards and no power supply. I think I see holes in the bottom area where one big PS was attached and removed. If that's correct, can someone link me to some PS's that would be suitable? Or some keywords I need for the type of PS?

It's unfortunate that there doesn't seem to be any manufacturer info on the front of the distributions boards so I can go lookup a manual--perhaps there is on the back, so I plan on removing one tomorrow to see.

Hints on wiring would also be greatly appreciated!

Best,
lee

Sounds like a plan, a Disting would be a good and easy step.

wow.. I definitely need to explore about modulation.
Forgot to mention that I also use Digitone + Shuttle Control to sequence my rack as well.

After browsed through your combinations, I think I will get Disting mk4 just for now as it has loads of tools in small hp and price.
So, I can use it with my current modules to learn more about modulation before expand my set up further.
What do you think ?

Cheers.

Thanks Garfield,

Hopefully if I can move into larger studio space this year then I can have more room to get a monster case for my base case and then will have lot more room. I'd love a Cwejman VCO and filter module along with Brenso, Sapel and Falistri, more percussion modules and of course another matrix mixer and support utilities.

Hi Mowse,

Another nice jam from you. I love those... how you call it, kind of knocking sounds, percussion kind of sounds just before 03:00, lovely done, fits very well in your jam!

My healing therapy goes very well doctor ;-) Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

Just another relaxing, live jam on the Moog stack and modular. This weekend is going pretty well. My build is really feeling like an instrument rather than a collection of things.

This is mostly M32's, DFAM, Plaits, Telharmonic and live playing of filters (something I really enjoy doing).

Hope you dig it.

Hi Brunomolteni,

You got yourself there a nice rhythm with an interesting sounding pluck instrument, sounds good! In combination with the sunset a beautiful video as well :-)

Nice to watch it and thank you very much for sharing this. Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Mog00,

He, he, nice one! Something different and yet beautiful.

Thanks a lot for sharing this, I need to listen at it at least one more time to let it sink in :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

Yeah, nice showcase of your modular setup! Ha, ha, you got the same problem as I have, not enough space for the racks. Like you I plan to get a new studio setup as well but I need a lot of time and work to put in there to be able to do so, so I am kind of dragging it...

Anyway, nice setup and thank you very much for sharing this, kind regards, Garfield.

This just arrived from Reverb after a long period of no scopes available anywhere in the US. This thing is super easy to use without looking at any manual so far. And it's going to be a massive value for understanding what is happening in my rack. It could do some things better, but it's affordable, and uses limited HP. I have no complaints, and have barely started using the features.

Hello Doctor Mowse,

I used your recently new developed "modular therapy" (see here above track), and wow, I felt myself almost directly much better after done that therapy!

Could you please subscribe me to some more modular therapy, especially your Moog ingredient in this therapy is helping me a lot!

Thank you very much, your much addictive patient, Garfield.

Thanks again for all of your useful contribution to the thread.

Well...it's your money and your gear. Have fun with that.

Managed to record this one with a sunset in the background, hope you guys enjoy!

Patch notes:
Instruo Ts-l as kickdrum
Calsynth Rangoon as main melody
Erica Pico Drums as high hats
Mutable Instruments Stages as envelope generator, LFO and step sequencer
Doboz XIIO as arpeggiator
Robaux LL8 as gate sequencer
Super Vcas as vca and mixer
ST Rocinante's Gate as LFO and Env. for sidechain.
Music Thing Startup as mixer, clock generator and clock divider.

Thanks for that completely useless response. They are designed to come out of the box as well. They just don’t explicitly advise on signal flow when doing so. Figuring out that signal flow is the point of this thread.

Beautiful!
Well done @mog00.

Yeah, the Paradox is a good bit more twisted than just being a dual VCO. For one thing, it's a Noise Reap module, which means that it comes with all sorts of interesting "defects" in operation that make it crazier than that. Also, the VCOs are set up to cross-modulate, so it also has weird aspirations to be the oscillator core from a Buchla 258.

And yet again, here's reasons why you DON'T take a synth that's already in a powered cab and...move it to yet another powered cab. Not only does it make the synth in question cost a lot more (because you have to take the Eurorack space costs into account), there's always a significant chance that you can fubar it while doing this.

Put 'em back where they belong.

Thanks it was fun experimenting with my new Euclidian Circles v2 sequencer for WMD drum modules and getting some patterns with my other modules. Eventually I plan to get a Doepfer monster case to put on the base case and add some Frap Tools and Instruo modules and more drums of course to the mix. I am good on sequencers and will see what reviews show up when and if Endorphin.es releases their Ground Control sequencer and see if future firmware updates resolve the issues with Erica Synths Black Sequencer. I'd love to add some more Erica Synths modules as well.

Nice one @sacguy71