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Welcome, Pete. What kind of music are you interested in making with this?
First things first, you do not have enough voices to make use of Harmonaig. Marbles already includes a quantizer, and Plaits has a pseudo-polyphonic chord mode, so Harmonaig will be a fairly expensive paperweight in a rack of this size. The Qu-Bit Chord v2 may be a suitable replacement as it has similar functionality and includes built-in oscillators (it's also smaller).
I've been using ALM's mmMidi module for MIDI input. That may be an option to check out.
Otherwise, I would just encourage you to consider if the Mutable Instruments user interface is right for you. Their elegance and sound quality are great, for sure, but I personally don't get along well with some of the opaque button combos and different colors of LED mean different modes and functions, etc. Others here love that way of working, or at least tolerate it.
Have fun and good luck!

So, first attempt at a modular rig. have I missed anything obvious - although this is intended to be standalone, I do need Midi connectivity should I wish to use with existing kit, Pico System III, DB-01, Crave, Bass Station 2, Minilogue XD + Cubase.

For a case, looking to be a Doepfer (for the inevitable expansion down the line) which is why I've added the uMidi and Sono Abitus for I/O.

looking for some good constructive criticism for this, if that entails flaming for being wildly off mark, then so be it.

many thanks in advance

Pete

Alright... I caved in to peer pressure and included the Doepfer A138-m. I eliminated a few redundancies to squeeze it in.
This thing better make me sound like Daft Punk. Haha.

well I was coming here to basically say the same as Lugia!

Thanks for the insights on case widths. I'll keep that in mind when I build my next cabinet. (I'm trying to stick to my self-imposed moratorium on buying/building any more shiny toys until I accomplish something musically useful with all the stuff I have already bought/built :) Well, maybe one or two shiny toys if I've been a good lad...)

that system is great - but easily circumvented

any sound is musically useful - you just have too find the right context

you could set the bar so low for good that it is almost impossible to be so bad as to warrant not being good enough so get a new module - I forgot to take the trash out - I'm not good enough to deserve a module - I emptied the moldy cheese from the fridge - I am good enough to get the module I want/need etc etc etc

obviously cash flow plays a part too

I tend to look at it as I could get knocked over by a bus tomorrow if I want it and can afford it and can find it - I buy it or build it

I like the looks of this tidy bundle from Konstant Lab: https://www.konstantlab.audio/shop/zdroj-set-high-end-linear-power-supply-bundle/ although I'd need twice as much +12V power to run my 400hp rig. Maybe they'll offer a beefier version in the months ahead.

Thanks again for your advice! And apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread :)

-- oldandintheway

I have no problems running multiple power supplies (befaco and frequency central) in the same case or patching between cases - nor any need for output modules - but I do live in northern europe where there is a balanced power supply

Yep, nice work :)

Hi Farkas,

Wow you got a very nice rack there! :-) Some great choices of modules. I would love to have that Furthrrrr generator :-)

Sorry, I am a bit confused is this your final rack or is this what you have now and in April you are going to extend it?

I have the A-138m Doepfer Matrix module and I love it, it gives you some great flexibility, so just go for it :-)

With such a rack every weekend must be fantastic, so I wish you just yet another great weekend! Kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

Thanks @GarfieldModular. The Furthrrr Generator is a fun module.
The rack pictured is my final plan. I have almost all of it currently, but still need to fill about 104hp of this plan. I'm still debating a few of the modules to include in that 104hp, but this should be fairly close to the final outcome.
Currently I have two Mantis cases and three Make Noise skiffs (so, 728hp filled). I will be swapping out the skiffs for two more Mantis cases in April or May, giving me 832hp.
I will be holding on to two of the skiffs as a portable live rig in case I decide to do some live performances. I have a friend in Leipzig who is encouraging me to play in some noise festivals or art shows in Germany when I visit again after COVID, so we'll see what happens.
Have a great weekend!

Actually, there's not really any "standard widths" in Eurorack. You see 84 hp (and multiples thereof) a lot but that's because 84 hp is about the limit that you can jam into a 19" rackspace. But other widths you see include 60 hp (Moog), 104 hp, 126 hp, 140 hp (Uli), 168 hp (double 19" rack width) and 197 hp (from ADDAC, using 1 meter length rails). As a rule, most cab makers tend to stay with even-numbered hp amounts since the vast majority of Eurorack modules have panel widths that come out to even numbered amounts. But not all...

The real bottleneck on sizes comes down to power issues...amounts of headers on distro boards, power load capability vs. potential load from the modules, that sort of thing. However, there ARE ways to deal with those, plus you don't exactly have to use typical Eurorack supplies...with some poking around, you can find LINEAR power supplies that fit the bill. And yeah, linear supplies are worth the expense + weight, as they're quite incapable of spewing ultrasonic rubbish onto your DC busses, and they tend to tolerate inrush behavior better than switching supplies. No radiated fields, either, aside of the usual line frequency junk (which they're usually good at filtering out).
-- Lugia

Thanks for the insights on case widths. I'll keep that in mind when I build my next cabinet. (I'm trying to stick to my self-imposed moratorium on buying/building any more shiny toys until I accomplish something musically useful with all the stuff I have already bought/built :) Well, maybe one or two shiny toys if I've been a good lad...)

And you must have been reading my mind re: power. I was researching linear supplies only an hour or two ago, just to see what has come on the market since I built this system a year or so ago. I went with a low-cost switching supply to get started, figuring I could upgrade to linear later if noise became an issue. I encountered inrush issues straight away and wound up going with two supplies to split the load, even though the combined draw total was on paper comfortably below the steady-state rating of one supply on its own. (The vendor was a champ and gave me a break on the second supply.) So that lesson well learned!

I think I've lucked out so far with noise, knock on wood. I'm not hearing anything, and assuming I can trust the spectrum analyzer in Cubase, I'm not measuring anything above -100 dB. It's almost as clean as my MatrixBrute, if that's a meaningful point of comparison. Credit to the noise filtering on the distro boards, I guess.

However, on my next system I'll definitely go with linear, and may upgrade my current system sooner rather than later. I'm not happy with the way these supplies flicker on power-up and power-down; I cringe to imagine what that's doing to my expensive modules.

I like the looks of this tidy bundle from Konstant Lab: https://www.konstantlab.audio/shop/zdroj-set-high-end-linear-power-supply-bundle/ although I'd need twice as much +12V power to run my 400hp rig. Maybe they'll offer a beefier version in the months ahead.

Thanks again for your advice! And apologies to the OP for hijacking this thread :)

Thank you @GarfieldModular :)

@farkas my current workflow is to record to my Disting, convert to 44.1khz in Audacity, and post here, so if the mixing is sounding good I think it's primarily the Soundstage (which I have really been enjoying). In this case I did use the Audacity default compression algorithm, so I am coming back to that question with @Lugia's comments from a few months back in mind but without any space, still working in the kitchen and all 🤣

Actually, there's not really any "standard widths" in Eurorack. You see 84 hp (and multiples thereof) a lot but that's because 84 hp is about the limit that you can jam into a 19" rackspace. But other widths you see include 60 hp (Moog), 104 hp, 126 hp, 140 hp (Uli), 168 hp (double 19" rack width) and 197 hp (from ADDAC, using 1 meter length rails). As a rule, most cab makers tend to stay with even-numbered hp amounts since the vast majority of Eurorack modules have panel widths that come out to even numbered amounts. But not all...

The real bottleneck on sizes comes down to power issues...amounts of headers on distro boards, power load capability vs. potential load from the modules, that sort of thing. However, there ARE ways to deal with those, plus you don't exactly have to use typical Eurorack supplies...with some poking around, you can find LINEAR power supplies that fit the bill. And yeah, linear supplies are worth the expense + weight, as they're quite incapable of spewing ultrasonic rubbish onto your DC busses, and they tend to tolerate inrush behavior better than switching supplies. No radiated fields, either, aside of the usual line frequency junk (which they're usually good at filtering out).

EDITED Mar 13th 2021, 03:46

+1 on the Joranalogue Comparator, to be sure! It's got windowing functions, which means you can extract multiple gates from a single inputted modulation signal, depending on the signal's state. There's only a couple like that in Eurorack; I myself use several Frederick Haer units for this (definitely NOT Eurorack) and they also have windowing...awesome for start/stop commands, logic tampering, and a bunch of other things (waveshaping! naaaaaaasty clipped-up pulsewaves!).

Interesting, thanks for sharing that one. And good point about price.

I've gone the DIY route myself, as woodworking is my other obsession. My lazy side was thinking it would be nice to be able to drop prepowered, prerailed sub-units into a cabinet of my own design so that I could focus on the woodworking side of things. One downside of this would be the constraint of the standard fixed widths (84 and 104, etc.), and I like the flexibility to choose my own widths. (My first build incorporated two 200hp rows, as I needed the width in this multipurpose cabinet/cart to accommodate a couple of keyboards.)

That did turn out good. Your mixes are very consistent. Is that a result of adding the Soundstage, or focusing more on mixing and EQ in your DAW?

Hi Steve,

Oh I love that sound, so much fun to listen at, that (leading) voice!

This is a nice start into the weekend, thanks to you! :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Lol. Who doesn't need more blinkenlights and VCAs?
As far as potential additions, I've got 20-some VCAs including the ones built-in to modules, but I would consider adding another quad or hex VCA just in case I decide to get weird with it some fine evening, and the Joranalogue comparator for some extra logic functions. Other than that, I'm at my blinkenlight limit. haha

Hi Lugia,

Ha, ha, at almost the exact same time we had the exact same thoughts ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Farkas,

Wow you got a very nice rack there! :-) Some great choices of modules. I would love to have that Furthrrrr generator :-)

Sorry, I am a bit confused is this your final rack or is this what you have now and in April you are going to extend it?

I have the A-138m Doepfer Matrix module and I love it, it gives you some great flexibility, so just go for it :-)

With such a rack every weekend must be fantastic, so I wish you just yet another great weekend! Kind regards, Garfield.

Totally useless. For one thing, you need about 16 Distings...for starters. I would also consider adding about 372 hp of VCAs to this so that you've got enough VCAs, even if this happens to be too many VCAs. Lastly, I think OSHA regulations probably requires the following module: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/other-unknown-der-blinkenlights

EDIT: Oh, yeah...this also: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/d-machinery-event-horizon It gives you the "sound" that "all" the "kids" "want" to "hear" these "days".

EDITED Mar 13th 2021, 01:54

Modular isn't about "looks". It's all about FUNCTION. Plus, people sort of expect to see a hodgepodge of different panels now that modular is more commonplace and that people sort of "get" what Eurorack's about.

Don't worry about what it looks like...worry a LOT more about what it SOUNDS like.

MISO = awesome and inexpensive CV wrangling module. Another possibility there is 4ms's SISM, which is a similar sort of thing with more CV over function. These sorts of modules are pretty indispensable if you're trying to generate complex modulation curves from a few different sources.

One thing I'd suggest about the 2 hp gap in the bottom (sequencing) cab: drop in one of 2hp's Logic modules. This way, you can use TWO Pam's outs that "conflict" with each other in how they're programmed to create even more complex and elaborate clock behavior.

Had been farting around with this for a few days and thought I'd record the patch before breaking it down, turned out pretty dang good. VCFS, an NTO, and a Metropolis go to town:

https://stevehand.bandcamp.com/track/trail-haze-acid

This is what you're looking for: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/shakmat-modular-sumdif That, or something along the same lines. The Shakmat module here can do addition and subtraction of CV values, but any adder will also work because if you send an adder a negative voltage, it'll treat that as a subtractive operation.

Hi Artvark,

The Shakmat Modular - SumDif module, just 2 HP, can do this as well. Dual adder and/or subtraction.

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hello ModLifeCrisis,

Thank you very much for the interesting demo. Gives me a good appetite for the Morphagene (again) :-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

frap tools make one - but I think it works out quite pricey by the time you add everything up

I can make a DIY 84hp/9u case for just over 200€ - including power so I don't really look at cases that much

EDITED Mar 13th 2021, 01:21

I don't think any of us can claim any form of intelligent foresight - it's just what we've picked up along the way - often from making those mistakes ourselves in the process

start with too small case - check
not enough modulation - check
not enough utilities - check

4, maybe 5 years later - experience in how to build modular synths that are worthwhile and usable - in my case both audio and video - and pretty much any size

-- JimHowell1970

Ah yes, the case dilemma. I wish Euro had the equivalent of the brilliant Box11 system from Synthesizers.com in the 5U world, which is itself a modular solution to modular systems. You can start with a single 11-U wide box and expand from there, both horizontally and vertically. And the power solutions, another great Dotcom offering that makes power a no-brainer, can grow with you easily enough. (There may well be something similar in Euro, and I haven't run across it yet.)

But I happily embrace the mad uncertainty of it all as I continue to build out furniture and cabinets in my studio, knowing I'll end up with multiple semi-self-contained systems that can be linked as needed. I gather this is fairly common :)

Haha. Amen to that!

I don't believe in capitalist models of enforced scarcity @farkas, ALM Modules For All!

LOL @ Jim

Interesting first forum post

Nice rack @farkas, but where's the Akemie's Castle??
-- troux

Ha! You don't know how many times I have added both Akemie's Castle and Akemie's Taiko to this rack. Lol.
I've got 2-Op FM with the E352 and BIA is ultimately pretty similar to an FM percussion sound, so the ALM modules will have to wait for a little while. You've got that market cornered!

Things not matching honestly looks worse on ModularGrid than in real life, the synth looks beautiful either way 😍
-- troux

LOL agreed plus I love them for their personality

EDITED Mar 12th 2021, 22:29

Nice rack @farkas, but where's the Akemie's Castle??

Things not matching honestly looks worse on ModularGrid than in real life, the synth looks beautiful either way 😍

Perhaps this is a rookie problem though.

-- merzky_shoom

I would say that it is. I made what I would consider a similar mistake, building my rack with an eye towards form over function at first to some extent. I still like to group many of modules by manufacturer, but I am mindful to organize everything in a functional way first.
If it comes down to it though, I'm not paying an extra $100 for a module that is aesthetically pleasing over one that has the exact same circuitry. I guess I'd prefer to have my modular all one color, but it's a patchwork because that's what made the most sense from a playability perspective.
Have fun!

I know what you mean though - I need to move soon - so I have more space for cases (amongst other things!)

-- JimHowell1970

For real. It’s time for a new place. My lifetime collection of vinyl records already has its own bedroom, so I need to be really careful about taking up any more room than necessary in my current space. For my wife’s sanity! Haha

Thanks for all the responses!

I should mention that I'm specifically looking to be able to record in longer gate lengths via midi-cv conversion (or from within the eurorack sequencer itself like CV Key Rec Mode in the Eloquencer) for the use longer sustained envelopes where I'd like the gate length to be the amount of time that I've held a key or touch interface of some kind.

My problem currently with my Eloquencer, although I will be keeping it as it lends itself to results that I otherwise would not come up with is that I'd still like to be able to express a pattern that is in my head and the limit to gate lengths and number of steps is preventing me from doing so at the moment.

Has anyone encountered a similar situation? What did you end up doing, are there any sequencers in general, eurorack or other that will allow me to interact with my systems gates/envelopes etc in such a way?

-- AudioResearch

On the eloquencer, if you activate a tie on a step, gate will remain open until next (non tied) gate. You should test this with chain patterns.

Thanks all for the encouragement and detailed feedback, I really appreciate the time. Taking your advice into consideration, I dropped the Harmonaig and replaced with a uO_C and a Warps. Also, the Beads tip is very helpful so thanks for pointing me in the right direction there.

If there's any interest, I've updated the original link after some reshuffling and saved the rack for a comparison point down the road, we'll see how it actually turns out as it grows!

maybe metalwork is the answer

get someone to build a bracket in steel that will angle 3 mantises like the doepfer stands

ok probably a prohibitively expensive solution - although you never know!

I know what you mean though - I need to move soon - so I have more space for cases (amongst other things!)

I understand - I'm kind of pulling yer leg a bit - but quite frankly I don't even see modules unless it's un-patched and even it won't be long before I patch it again

I'd tend to see it as a rookie problem to a large extent - form over function

a beginner guitarist may want a factory fresh red strat for example - but as a guitarist I'd want the one that I liked playing the most out of a huge range of them and not care about the condition of the paintwork or which model it is - although saying that I do like the sustainer on the EOB and it would go well with my white jag - thankfully I am not in the market for another guitar!

but as I said is it an instrument or a fetish totem?

will you play with it?

or will you stand around looking at it - maybe chatting with your friends about how black and shiny and sexy it is, over cocktails??

EDITED Mar 12th 2021, 20:56

but is it primarily an instrument or a fetish totem???
-- JimHowell1970

I do the all black thing, and it's kind of important to me because I prefer to look at the unit as a cohesive, singular instrument rather than a collection of parts. I dunno, it just helps me view the whole thing at once rather than each module as their own island. Perhaps this is a rookie problem though.

If you really need a black panel version for the aesthetics
-- farkas

haha no-one needs anything for aesthetics, they might want it though!

Saying that I've always liked a slightly "bohemian" aesthetic - my modular is patchwork of black and silver and white and red and blue - maybe some fluorescent orange or green soon! and of course it's all bathed in the pulsing psychadelic light of the tv screen

but is it primarily an instrument or a fetish totem???

ok so you know there are 2 kinds of mults - passive and buffered

and you know that buffered mults are more accurate

good start...

in almost all cases other than for v/oct it really doesn't matter if your signal is slightly off - you will not notice at all

unless you have tuned your modules, even with v/oct it won't matter

in very rare cases - some of my video modules, for instance, don't like maths unless there is a buffer between them - which shows up by maths not cycling and a buffer solves this - in which case get a buffer

if after all that you still want a buffered mult - take a look at mi links - you get a buffered mult and 2 mixers (one of which can be used as a precision adder - so can also be used as a 2 output mult)

I'd been recommended to have mults, just so you have the option of using one source of modulation/cv in multiple places. Could save the space and just use stackable cables I guess but my understanding is that buff mults keep the signal more consistent vs passive.

Yeah, not concerned about adding more voices too soon. I've got 7 between the 3 moogs.

yeah no plan survives past the first encounter with the enemy!

why a buffered mult? what are you going to use it for?

I'd go Maths, Batumi (and poti) and a doepfer matrix mixer - maybe add a passive mult - and then add kinks and shades (or wmd/ssf toolbox) before anything else - it'll give you a good foundation of building blocks to complement the moogs - then think about another voice - I wouldn't try to be over ambitious on voices until you take the moogs out

my modular is on the floor I sit cross-legged in front of it - I too need a much bigger desk!

at your stage of filled case - I'd be looking for the next case!

-- JimHowell1970

I'm maxed out on space, so anything I decide to add means that something else has to go. The Blck_Noir and Panharmonium are the likely candidates to get replaced eventually, but I'm in no hurry. I'm still having so much fun with this setup.

Thanks, Jim.

I already own the Moog trinity and have them in the stacked tower config. Migrating the Moogs into this case is all about saving desktop space for now. I was going to build a smaller case and put it beside the Moog tower, but once I filled it up I'd have to spend another $1,000 on a bigger case, so just decided to start with the bigger case and put the Moogs in there until it's full. If I ever do fill it up I'll move the Moogs back into their tower and have another 180hp to start filling up. I'll just have to figure out a new desk at that point.

Once I get my case built I'll probably just start with the buff mult, maths, & batumi. Then we'll see what happens. I'm sure some of the other choices will change over time.

Appreciate the input.

Haha. Man, I've had so many different iterations including a matrix mixer. Doepfer, AI, Future Sound Systems, Instruo... I can get a little of that from the Happy Nerding 3xMIA and I've considered adding another of those when they become available again. I think there is a shortage in the dual concentric pots.

well you did say roast!

shortages of everything - I swear I spent hours last night trying to find a electronics componenet dealer that had c0g capacitors and both lm6172 and cd4053 ics!!!

But, yeah... I'm sort of avoiding too many utilities, logic modules, and such that discourage a hands on approach. That's why I've got a few mixers without VCAs. I like to pretend I'm Lee "Scratch" Perry mixing an incredible dub session. hahaha
-- farkas

so you know that when they used to have to mix everything by hand - because they only had 2 hands - they had to get other people in to help move faders etc - get more utilities now I tell ya, might spare you from the corona!!! and there's a lot to be said for being able to be both a hands on and a hands off synthesist - and everything in between - with utilities, logic, vcas etc etc - you can choose to use them or not! without you don't get a choice

and you could play matrix mixers and vcas with your hands - just get the right ones - big chunky things with big knobs!!! - go on get a Doepfer Matrix Mixer, you know it makes sense!!!

at your stage of filled case - I'd be looking for the next case!

... and what does that say about capitalism?

nice size case - very expensive housing for the moogs, though!

maths is brilliant buy it now - download the 'maths illustrated manual' and work your way through it a few times

needs way more utilities to improve the functionality though - imagine an exponential increase in patching possibilities!

If it was me, I'd take one (or 2) of the moogs out and put a load more utilities and maybe another modulation source, replace the mi clones with originals and consider replacing the lofi junky with a couple of fx aid xls

Gosh, that's amazing. I wouldn't know where to start. Hats off to you for creating such a beautiful constellation of modules. I have no idea even what most of those modules do. But no Beads? And no sample modules? You must be able to squeeze something in. I suppose the Disting mk2 can sample. For myself, I like the idea of sample modules in modular... it takes me back to Musique concrète... those were the days...

-- ModLifeCrisis

Funny you mention that... I started off with a granular and sampling approach (Clouds, Radio Music, and Phonogene) for musique concrete style stuff, but didn't really enjoy working with samples. I have the Erica Sample Drum which can record and load samples, but I haven't really been using it in that way. And, I still get my glitch fix from the Data Bender.
I think sampling is an art form unto itself, and I'm just not passionate or skilled enough to join that world.