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As the power consumption and depth have changed, this is a valid/useful addition to MG.

Is this just an alternative panel for the original module?

a|x

If you're using ableton i would suggest to research Expert Sleepers modules. They could get quite helpful may prove more useful than any lfo/eg/sequencer/cv tool. For example i would recomend switching peaks and/or TM for one ES3.

Is this retarded?

idk if ill buy this but it one cool concept!

A quick "Thumbs-up" to @echoromeo for a quick payment of the uScale II and @zen4one for quick payment of the E350 Morphing Terrarium. They both were a pleasure to business with.
R-

Hello folks...I see a lot of questions on this topic, so I thought I would chime in. Having had about 35+ years of experience in electroacoustic music, as well as having designed a few devices, plus having used a plethora of modular setups over the years, I'd like to offer some how-to-get-going advice to people starting in this direction.

1) Don't start cold. Before designing a modular system to YOUR spec, see how others have been designed over the years by others. Especially note semi-modular patchable designs; the ARP 2600 comes to mind immediately, as many schools still use these as a primary tool for learning analog synth programming basics. After looking at (or better, using) a few of these, you'll notice that there are certain patterns to the layout of the panels, and this all relates to signal flow. Making this as efficiently directional as possible, instead of a patchcord hodgepodge, results in a more instrument-like...well...instrument. Which leads to...

2) Generators / modifiers / controllers / processors. These are the four basic 'food groups' of modules. Some modules can fit into a couple of these categories (or more), but it's how YOU define their uses that determines where in there these sorts wind up. So, let's look at these:
a) generators. Pretty straightforward. Things that create a waveform that is the 'raw meat' of your sound. Oscillators, certainly, but also signal inputs, noise sources, sample-based modules, and so on. If it MAKES noise, it fits here.
b) modifiers. Now these are things that ACT ON the waveform and modify how it behaves. Filters, ring modulators, VCAs if you use them for AM, waveshapers, and the like. If it changes the output of the generator(s), it's a modifier.
c) controllers. The obvious things here are controllers themselves: sequencers, keyboards, and the whole gamut of such widgets. But also various modules, especially modulation sources like LFOs, EGs, etc. If it makes something do something, it fits in this club.
d) processors. The 'summation'. When everything that's been through a-c above gets to the end of its journey, it arrives at d. Mixers go here, plus effects, output stages. But also, processors are scattered throughout any good synth design. A multiple is a sort of processor (passively splits something), as are submixer stages for various other subsets of modules, either AF or CV.

3) Why is that important? Well, it's because you, optimally, group things according to those categories...and when you do, you begin the basics of sensible signal flow. "But I want a VCO way the hell over here!", you say? Well, you could do that, sure. But at the same time, if you get adept at reading your patchcord jungle, you will come to notice 'unusual' patches that require a cord to go 'way the hell over' there, and therefore you'll pay attention to it, because, obviously, you set that special patch aspect up for a significant reason. The cord there becomes an 'arrow' that tells you 'hey...look at this a bit more carefully than the rest of the spaghetti'.

4) Flow directions. Once you get your groupings sussed out, then you need to decide how they fit together and play together. Again, study some existing, tried-and-true designs that had a lot of work go into them and which are considered 'classics'. And if you do, you notice something of a rule of thumb: up and left/right and down. Huh? Well...consider...
Your human input, as control signals, are probably best coming in at the 'bottom' of the layout. You want them at hand. Knobs to grab, wheels to turn, keys to tickle. Then from there, the control signals from those control other things to augment the control. And now, we're heading upward, building up the control signal structures. Some of these branch one way, and triggers, gates, etc go to other control things, stuff to modulate, while your CVs head on upward to (where I like to put them) the upper part of the layout, where your generators live. So now, we're all the way up and all the way left. Now we have to go rightward and downward.
The generator signals, influenced by modulators coming from that middle-leftward zone, and jiggered by processing to cook 'em down, arrive at the modifiers...where you find filters to tamper with timbre, VCAs for amplitudes, waveshapers to mangle stuff, etc. And with this stuff here, your controlling modulations are simply moving across the middle...left to right...to have at the CVs inputs herein. Once we're done here, then it's a simple move on down to the final modifiers, namely your effects processing and mixing, as well as other end-stage trickery...which, like the controllers at the beginning, are nicely at hand in the bottom-right quadrant where you can easily get at 'em. It feels right, it looks right, it's not QUITE so maddening to program...perhaps...and cables all seem to flow around the front panel's user interface in a way that doesn't seem look like some sort of connect-the-dots puzzle on mescaline.

Anyway, that's how I tend to work with these things, employing much the same sort of flow structure on an instrument as I might with a studio environment...which, after all, is what the innovators such as Don Buchla, Bob Moog, Peter Zinovieff, and the like had in mind: an 'in-one-box' solution to the electronic music studio setups of the 1960s and before. Not saying these are hard 'n' fast rules, but they work for me, and have for quite some time. Give it a try (which Modulargrid makes oh-so-easy) and I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

L

Wow, you make some great points and thank you for the valuable information. I have decided to go with a MDLR classic case which expands my HP per row to 114, giving me more room for extra modules. I am keeping the DUBjr in there and adding the disting mk3 because I am a delay junkie and want many different options (let me know if that doesn't make sense). I have replaced the mutagen with the mutamix.

Take a look at the mods that I have added and let me know what you think.

Also, to start I am not buying all of the modules at once. The grand total for everything will probably end up at close to $8k. I will most likely be spending $4k to start with. Any pointers on which modules I absolutely have to get first given my starting budget?

Once again, I appreciate the help. I'll continue to do my own research to develop my own knowledge, but I really enjoy the fact that there are others out there willing to help on this journey.

Thanks!

Oh and yes, I meant using the moog in desktop form. I might grab one myself. The sound great.

Vcas are necessary because the gate and control levels of everything. Want to control vibrato over time? Use a VCA between your LFO and oscillator with an envelope generator opening and closing the VCA. This is where a modular shines over fixed architecture. Anything can modulate anything, and it's the dynamics and movement through vcas, cv switches, logic, etc that opens up everything. Effects are fun, oscillators are necessary, but to really get them moving, you need dynamic voltage, and that's achieved through vcas.

Take a look at your DPO. You might not know it but there's a bunch of vcas built in already. One to control fm between the oscs, one to control osc modulation to the timbre section, etc.

The uMod 2 is a great choice because you can use it as a VCA in addition to ring mod. Plus the lower section is amazing fir creative cv processing.

Unfortunately the mutagen has been discontinued a while ago, but the mutamix is its replacement and quite great. It's 18hp though, versus the 12hp of the mutagen. Still a good choice because of the 3 output buses. Not to mention its sequencing capabilities.

If you replaced the dub Jr. with a Disting (which has ping pong delays, tape delays, in addition to tons of other functions, of course) then you'd have space for the mutamix.

A few words for @baguetta, I sold him my Flame Fx 16, and everything was great! Great man, great artist, great buyer!
Great communication everything was fine from start to finish. Highly recommended!

great and awesome sellers: @He_lium and @moriyama !!
be carefull with @davidauthior sold me broken module.

Anyone else out there that can help? Would love to get as much guidance as possible from some seasoned folks before I take the plunge. I feel like there are brands and actual modules out there that I am missing out on. Also, some additional tips and recommendations on the current configuration would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Right on, so I got rid of the moog (sucks cause I really wanted the moog sound in there, though I know I can just get it tabletop and still mess around like that). I added the Make Noise DPO, Make Noise function generator, Intellijel VCA 2, Intellijel uMod 2, and the intellijel mutagen as a mixer. Unfortunately, even though I know what belongs inside the rig, I do not completely understand what purpose some of the mods serve. For example, what do the VCAs do and why are more than one important? Also, could you recommend a good 4hp mod to squeeze in as the last piece? Other than that I am open to recommendations with swapping my current mods.

Apologies for the newbie questions, but I am still reading up and researching. Going to take the final plunge and buy everything hopefully in the beginning of June. Appreciate your help!

You're going to need some vcas (audio and cv), mixing (again, audio and cv)

So, I'd say consider loosing maybe the moog, and replacing it with an osc, two or more channels of VCA, mixers, envelopes etc.

You also have a ton of clocking, so maybe reduce some of that. Rcd probably redundant with the tempi. Plus yarns does lots of clock/sequencing.

So this is my first ever modular system. After messing around with a few different configurations, I decided to go with a three row system and get a bunch of fun toys to mess around with. As this is my first go around, I am not completely sure if I have the right mods to keep the system running. I covered osc, filters, effects, EGs, midi interface, and some other random mods.

Please take a look and let me know if I am missing any important modules. Also, any other advice would be great and please feel free to provide criticism as I am here to learn what is best:)

Thanks! -Craig.m

@box78 and @methodius are good traders, well packed and fast shipped modules!

EDITED May 13th 2016, 14:36

UPDATE: We built a few Gristleizers incorrectly at first based on a typo in our in-house build guide, and that caused us to think something was wrong with the CV inputs. We found out what was wrong and fixed the problem. Your Gristleizer will happily take any type of positive or negative CV input now!

EDITED Aug 29th 2016, 15:09

"WARNING: DO NOT APPLY POSITIVE CONTROL VOLTAGES TO ANY INPUT. Use ONLY negative control voltages, and do not exceed -10 volts total."

What?
So I have to dig out a voltmeter or oscilloscope every time I use this module, plus use up 3 offsets for full control.
Ridiculous.

Hello gents. What was the resolution of this issue? I have run into something similar in my setup. I have a PGH foundation 3.1+ with a bottom row of Maths,wogglebug, and optomix. Recently added a clouds,phonogene and erbe-verb. After about 15-30 minutes of patching I lost all power to the case (used to work fine without the 3 latest modules). I have to power off and power on and then all modules come back up and remain online for about 15 minutes and then the power drops again. I removed the clouds last night and had no power issues for 3 hours.

For one thing, the anti envelope was never made. And also, make sure you really read up on some of these modules and their issues.

Above all listen to demos. There's a lot of variety in every module, some geared towards dirty sounds, some pristine, some intentionally chaotic that embrace analog flaws whether good or bad, etc.

The 'one manufacturer per row' thing is nice to look at, but you end up limited yourself with choices based solely on hp. If anything, pick 2 decent companies and do 2 rows each. I'm a huge fan of Intellijel and it covers most of my system, but I still space stuff out to be more convenient instead visually aesthetically pleasing.
-- exper

The 'one manufacturer per row' thing is nice to look at, but you end up limited yourself with choices based solely on hp.

That was pretty true for me.

Last night I made an alternate version, changing all the Make Noise to Analogue Systems which I'm still thinking of changing to be more like this

Will probably ditch the 1 per row idea for more cohesion but if there's nothing mechanically wrong with this I might give half of it a shot one day.
Version I did last night:

EDITED May 11th 2016, 19:26

Hey guys,

I am a proud owner of the mother 32 as of recently and plan to go into the wild world of modular systems.
As I am very new to the whole concept would really appreciate to hear your thoughts and comments on this rig I came up with.
The whole idea is to route it to a computer and use external midi controllers as well as cv automation tools and record everything back in the PC.

@bark thanks for the great transaction. Fast delivery, safe packing and good communication.

For one thing, the anti envelope was never made. And also, make sure you really read up on some of these modules and their issues.

Above all listen to demos. There's a lot of variety in every module, some geared towards dirty sounds, some pristine, some intentionally chaotic that embrace analog flaws whether good or bad, etc.

The 'one manufacturer per row' thing is nice to look at, but you end up limited yourself with choices based solely on hp. If anything, pick 2 decent companies and do 2 rows each. I'm a huge fan of Intellijel and it covers most of my system, but I still space stuff out to be more convenient instead visually aesthetically pleasing.

I've never made a modular before, so I just wanted to make sure everything will work. Missing any necessary modules? I'm pretty picky about organization, so each company has their own row. I'm thinking of filling the last row with Make Noise but not sure. Is there anything that would cause the system to just not work at all? Too many of one kind of module? Not enough?

EDITED May 10th 2016, 20:56

a check box to delete multiple message would nice to tidy up the inbox outbox

Hello, I recently stumbled upon modulargrid and its a really great planning tool! Altough I have some suggestions: instead of the drop down menu to choose from a single brand and module type, a checkbox type would be cool. Because I have a limited choice of manufacturers here in germany, so I could like only check doepfer, mfb and some others, but no other manufacturers.
Thank you!

EDITED May 10th 2016, 08:54

Still learning - here is my fledgling system.

Any comments / suggestions appreciated

Best wishes,

headless

bought a analogue solutions SY-02 from @Zigge . Very nice, fast shipping, very good communication and module in perfect shape : all good!!!

I "think" you should be ok. I know I've used an adapter like that in the past, and simply attenuated an output into headphones, so this should be ok level wise. I'm not 100% sure, but there might eventually be a headphone 1u module from intellijel. I know that they have plans for much more in the format.

ah, of course :) but in terms of volume levels?

Well, I think you'd need a stereo to mono adapter for that to work. Otherwise the sound would only come out of 1 ear...

http://www.showmecables.com/product/3-5mm-Stereo-Jack-to-3-5mm-Mono-Plug.aspx?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cse&utm_campaign=957&gclid=CIi3n9WHy8wCFdhahgodrqoFOA

would this work as a mono headphone out?

Curious if the Tempi would be redundant for someone who already has a QCD/expander - anybody have a demo of Tempi doing a few tricks?

supa sound !

This new version makes more sense. More like the Buchla or Sputnik ones.

Some really useful refinements. Thanks for sharing the details.

Yes.

First the cv inputs are normalized so that a cv into attack can be sent to both attack and decay.

Next the eoc outputs have been greatly improved and now trigger anything.

And I think the quadrature mode has been simplified.

I can see the cosmetic differences, but are there functional differences between this and the original? Reference: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/intellijel-quadra-expander

Just in case someone down the line is curious... I ended up getting one to try. I have plenty of power in my case, but it doesn't work. This tile puts out 200ma and the BSP needs 500ma. Bummer.

Open Music Labs now has fully assembled open-source Euro modules available using the x0x-heart (TB303 analogue section replica). Panel re-design by Grayscale. Check out the already funded campaign: https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-music-labs/x0x-heart-eurorack

Currently taking suggestions for stretch goals/product options. Thoughts (some from MW thread): red (blood-coloured) anodized knobs, laser engraved/cut wood panel, full DIY kit version.

MG here: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/other-unknown-x0x-heart-eurorack-module

Features
* CV control of frequency, gate, accent, slide, env-mod, decay, and cut-off
* Switches for waveform selection (square and sawtooth), external/internal oscillator mix
* VCA and VCF outputs

Specs
* Eurorack standard format (3U height)
* 18hp
* ~1.75in depth (45mm)
* +/-12V current draw 10mA
* 5V current draw: 50mA
* 10” Euro power cable (16 pin to 10 pin connector)

Includes
* Black anodized aluminum knobs with a diamond knurl pattern and two set screws (with slot heads and flat points)
* A .063” (1.6mm) highly durable satin aluminum Metalphoto panel with a black print

https://www.crowdsupply.com/open-music-labs/x0x-heart-eurorack

EDITED May 5th 2016, 01:01

This will be my very first modular rack. So I'd really appreciate some advice from the more experienced guys on this forum.
The idea was that I'd be able to run polyphonic (4 voices) sequences, but still have a lot of modulation possibilities. Since I have zero experience in the modular world (apart from researching for some months. I have a lot of experience with software synths though) I'm afraid of design flaws in the rack I'm planning. For example whether there a too little VCAs in my rack, which makes it unusable. I'd be glad if some of you gave their opinions.

Yep, had a very easy and quick buying experience with Junk Rhythm. Thanks!

I had a perfect transaction with @jdev earlier today. We met in person and everything was super smooth from start to finish. Thank you!

I don't believe it's buffered. Or if it is, I read lots of complaints that it still has signal loss. And buffering has nothing to do with loudness. It preserves the output voltage levels when send to destinations such as mults.
-- exper

ur right, i mean CV power not loudness :D
thx....for tha reply

I don't believe it's buffered. Or if it is, I read lots of complaints that it still has signal loss. And buffering has nothing to do with loudness. It preserves the output voltage levels when send to destinations such as mults.

A potential buyer of this modul found a information about the slew, i not found.
is it buffered or unbuffered?
is buffered better because loudness compensation?

Thx
Cheers...

Had a smooth and easy transaction with @solipsistnation. Thanks!

Putting together a collaborative percussive type rig to skiff out of my larger case.
This seems like a nice set up to "pop out" of my 9u.

I just had very pleasant experiences buying from jdev and Junk Rhythm.

-- solipsistnation

Thank you for the kind words. @solipsistnation was great to deal with. Excellent communication and prompt.

EDITED May 3rd 2016, 06:02