what brand of mixer would you shop for on ebay? I like Allen and Heath if used value can be found for a 16 channel mixer.
It was an limited-run earlier product...several years back, from around when the reissue came out, and it wasn't cheap, something like $1000 compared to $449 for the MS-20 Mini new and maybe about $400 or less used. At the same time, though, the keyboard version is still very much worth having, plus there's no jack conversion needed (the original '20 as well as the kit module used 1/4" jacks). It's not as large as the full-size version (I've had both at this point), so it's a bit handier, plus the keyboard also has a mod wheel and momentary button switch for various uses with their own patchpoints, which can actually be linked up to something other than the '20.
But, yes...sample-loops made with this can be made to sound like some sort of circuit-damage nightmare when you feed that input section with the right (ie: 'wrong') things. Another nice thing is that its matching SQ-1 sequencer is set up for the Hz/V scaling already and that its sync should lock up nicely with the Volcas. Not only that, it outputs MIDI and MIDI over USB (yeah...it can sequence software synths, too), plus has a special port for those littleBits modules, and it's built like a tank. Damn nice for $99! And yes, it'll also talk just fine to the 0-Coast...and can do that and talk to the MS-20 Mini with the right scaling at the same time (albeit with only 8 steps each...can't chain row A and B when doing that trick). I really think that it and the Arturia BSP are perhaps some of the finest affordable sequencing hardware...perhaps EVER.
Additional mixers: eBay. You can actually get really amazing steals on higher-end PA mixers from several years back for dimes on the dollar. Just a cursory glance shows several small-format units that originally came in at $1200 or more selling for about $300 and less at present. If this sounds like an idea, there's several things to make sure of, but most notable is that you do not want a mixer with onboard effects. This is because you don't necessarily find the best effects units in these in terms of tweakability, and you want total control over your AUX bus architecture instead of being locked into a manufacturer's idea of what you should be doing. PM me at some point on here and we can discuss this, since it's a bit outside the 'synth' topic zone.
Yea the mS-20 is solid especially the pure synth version:
http://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/ms_20mkit/
Pair that with my Elektron Analog 4 and Octatrack and the other modular gear and have wacky industrial dirt techno insanity!
I already have a Volca Beats that as you suggested can feed in percussion to the MS-20. I don't want the keyboard version but having trouble finding this pure synth kit. Maybe it is a new product release from Korg?
Anyways been learning my new Elektron gear the A4 and Octatrack as well as 0-coast and they integrate nicely together.
I ran an experiment this weekend: control the 0-coast with the A4, layer FX on top of that from the A4, sample that into the Octatrack and then add slices and resample with dirt from the Octatrack like dark reverb for some madness.
Since the Octatrack has room for 4 devices to connect, that would let me hook up the MS-20 and sample/mangle that.
Ideally I would need an additional sampler/mixer to add for the modular gear.
Well, don't discount the MS-20 Mini...if you add that 'nexus cab', it integrates wonderfully with the scalers and inverters. But even without it...well, gonna let you in on a little trade secret...
The MS-20's input section, for normally-pitched instruments, sucks. It mistracks, follows stronger harmonics, etc. BUT...there IS a way to use that to your advantage and get lots of squeally, crunchy percussives out of it. What you do there is to run a percussion source with indefinite pitches into it, patch and adjust the various bits...and VOILA: instant Aphex-style industrialoid acid-type weirdness! The Volca Beats is perfect for this, although my preference is (like Aphex) a TR-606. You just send the pitch-to-CV converter to the VCOs or filter cutoffs, the envelope follower to the filter cutoffs, trigger extraction to the trigger-in, and add some of the bandpass-filtered audio to the VCF. It's insane...and given that you can get a used MS-20 Mini for under $400 these days and an SQ-1 matching sequencer (matches the Volcas, too) for $100 new, its cheap and potent for the money! Put that against the 0-Coast, and you've got some serious sonic mayhem!
With a 606, it has to be heard to be believed...that box's cheezy 'chinnnng' cymbal turns into all sorts of metallics screeches and yowls, for example. Truly an endless source of rhythm processing, that synth.
Couple of questions: first of all, which case do you have in mind here? I can see a tile row, but is this an Intellijel cab or a 'standard format tile' 4U 84hp case? Second, if it's not an Intellijel, did you have a powered option in mind, or unpowered?
Last: do you think this size is actually sufficient due to portability constraints, etc? The Phonogene and Maths eat a lot of space, and even though this is just a processor cab, you might find that going to two 3U rows makes more sense in the long run.
Well, more space = more...uh...more:
Majorly stepped up, with a lot of new things added. Ten VCOs now, and accordingly, a buffered mult was added in addition to some other passives. Two Plaits, plus eight Doepfers in two Quad VCOs. Different wavefolder with a suboctave divider. More mixers (the Levit8 was moved to allow it to 'split' for audio and CVs if needed). Potentially up to 14 envelopes (the addition of the Stages allows a lot of flexibility with envelopes and other modulation sources), with the Quadrangle adding complex staged/looping ADs x 4. Added a Shifty analog shift register to allow the Metropolis to arpeggiate out four step-shifted CVs from the single CV out. Switched to an EMW 4xADSR for the ADSR EGs, plus added an EMW 4-stage phaser and a Flame FX-16CV for stereo effects. Changed the Mordax to an O'Tool mk2 for space considerations.
Then there's that bottom row...a lot of change there: Metropolis is still present, but I added an 8-channel EMW trigger sequencer (no, no menus there...has a shifting track display with '0' and '1' for trigger on/off indicators...very easy to use, rather 909-ish) and a section of drum modules (TR-606 4-voice clone, 8-voice with Linn LM-1 hits, and an Erica Drums with 16-bit samples). Then a HUGE WMD Performance Mixer setup w/ mute expander...this gives eight channels w/ input VCAs, automatable mutes, two FX busses, metering and cue sends, and a couple of other tricks, this into a Bastl Ciao! with a second stereo in line for the balanced outs.
Note that this will not work on a standard power supply setup that MDLR Case puts in their cabs; it will require the extra Doepfer PSU-3 option, but with that, the power will coast along smoothly. And it goes without saying that this blows your 4000 EUR original limit all to hell...but it's way more powerful and capable than the original build attempts.
I've been reading and reflecting on modular synthesis for several weeks and have begun seeing what my route forward might look like. I'm an experimental guitarist with a lot of performance experience, and I would like to incorporate a modular rig to my setup, and perhaps eventually transition to a more modular-centered approach. For now, however, I imagine the modular rig to be in service of the guitar rig.
I've come up with a very simple modular set-up that is to take a guitar signal as input and which works just with that. I've included a percussive element for ornamentation, and I have placed a mixer at the end because I assume I need to focus and condition the signal for output. I've included a Maths for general utility. After getting this kind of setup working I will begin to add more filtering and processing modules.
Here's the screenshot.
I would be grateful for feedback that might show me what I'm missing/forgetting. I'm also not sure about power and output. The mixer might not be necessary, e.g. Many thanks!
Thank your very much for your feedback.
Ok i think i decided on a Case. As i know me i tend to spend a lot in something that sounds good an i will probably fall in love with modular very soon. So i think i will get a quite big first case. 12U 114HP from MDLR Case
Not sure if the PSU-3 is a good PSU for this Rack. But 2000mA sounds nice, but not enough if i want to fill up the rack.
So i set it up here and played around with your recommendations. Im not so sure if i can get into the 4vox. It looks like fiddeling in menues and i want to avoid that.
Also i ignored my 4000 EUR limit but i left some spaces. So maybe you have some ideas how to fill the whole Rack with modules (maybe more utilies) that makes sense (the fun part)?
But money matters and so i have to start with a very basic Setup (probably even lower than my 4000 EUR Limit). But as i am only human and like to dream, i wonder how you would fill up the rack :D
Cool thanks Lugia yeah I am digging Make Noise so far and amazed what I can get out of just one single tiny box in the 0-coast with a few simple patches and tweaks and very Buchla sounding on a budget so the package would be tons of fun. I think that my next step is to try out these different systems at place like Noise Bug or Perfect Circuit Audio in the near future. I spent most of the weekend trying to figure out how to use Elektron Octatrack to sample and record tracks from my 0-coast, Analog 4, and Volca Beats. It took me a long time to figure this out and I still have a lot to learn but it is powerful box to mangle and record samples for playback and editing without a computer. Here is what I got done:
Since it will take me a good few months at the very least to get the foundations on these three boxes that gives me time to hopefully save up for a full blown modular setup as well as to try some out! I do like the sounds I hear from the Elby Serge type systems as well as Buchla of course. The point about having a Plankton Ants and Koma Field kit to use as supplement voice/texture and mixer is great as well. I think these would be quite an awesome starter setup to modular world and keep me busy for many years and then can always add a few custom racks with a special modules afterwards.
There's quite a bit wrong here...first of all, if you're using a powered rack, have you confirmed that it can handle the 5V rail current draw from that Metasonix module? If not, you'd either have to employ a Metasonix (or another similarly hefty) power supply that can handle the tube filament current draw, because a lot of basic Eurorack supplies cannot deal with the operating current draw, to say nothing of the much shorter but potentially greater startup inrush draw.
Second: the Neutron...does not appear to actually exist yet. Sweetwater, for example, doesn't even list it...and they had an advance listing for the Model D for way over a year prior to when Uli finally got around to (likely not getting his ass sued by Moog and) getting them on the shelves. In contrast to the Metasonix powering issue, I don't think any Eurorack power setups are capable of powering up a fictional device.
Third: there's several discontinued modules in here, one of which has already been superceded by its manufacturer (Braids; now Plaits).
Last: if part of the plan is to use some of this as an 'insert' in Cubase paths, there's another way to do this...let's pull out the monkey wrenches...
OK...now this makes more sense! (Or rather, it would make more sense if MG's forum had actually linked the right image instead of the empty case. If that's still showing here, click the case and the correct image should pop up!)
To start with, the ES-8 can handle either audio I/O via USB or ADAT input to provide CVs via Silent Way. That cut a lot of stuff back really quick! I then added a quad wavetable module which also can handle MIDI and does 4-voice polyphony for that 80s-ish Thomas Dolby sort of thing, plus a Quad VCO for audio sources or stacking as one honkin' big single VCO. Ring mod via a uMod, then an 8 channel mixer that can either configure as 8-1 or 4-2.
Processing provides a waveshaper for distortion/folding, Doepfer's version of a 'wave animator' to get that sweepy sawtooth sound, sort of akin to the Roland 'Supersaw', then your Jove JP-6 clone filter, plus a clone of the ARP 2600 'pre-lawsuit' LPF...both of which also have dual inputs for further mixing purposes.
Bottom row: passive mult (you probably won't need a buffered one with this setup), noise, S&H, and random modules with Doepfer's clone of the Buchla 'Source of Uncertainty'. Then modulators: Batumi, Maths, and a Quad ADSR. Veils handles some mixing as well as the ability to shear off a VCA or two for CV amplitude. The neat little Ginko Sampleslicer handles your sample-manipulation, Warps for more processing and the 20-band vocoder. Stereo mix via the 4-in Doepfer stereo mix, plus the Happy Nerding output has a second parallel stereo in to allow you to take a second audio path out via that same balanced stereo pair.
This should fit all of the functions you mentioned above, and fits in an Erica 2 x 126hp cab. The total came out to about $5200...but that would be in USA pricing, and since I used a lot of stuff here that tends to cost considerably less in the EU, we even seem to be fairly close to your 4k EUR budget constraint! Flows better, works better, no power surprises (the Erica 126 case [NOT the skiff!] has a very beefy linear power supply for very quiet and ample DC), and no fictional devices! Works loads better, I think!
Given a tossup between the Shared System or the Endorphins, I'm more drawn to the MakeNoise stuff. Endorphins is nice, and it's certainly very West Coast-centric, but I think it tends to be overpriced for what it is. On the other hand, the lowest-end Shared System is $1200 more than the Endorphins...but at the same time, it's more complex and capable, specifically designed for portability, and has room for internal expansion -- the layout's not fixed.
One other thing, too...the basic 'CV Bus' Shared System is already a holy terror in terms of functionality when compared with a lot of other prebuilts. Costs $3700...and actually, I think you wind up getting your money's worth and more besides from it. It's also something that has its origins in Alessandro Cortini's rig, so the musical track record you're concerned about already has some proof to it there.
[Time passes, nagging concern gets worked on]
HOT...damn! Check this out, instead of the format switcher box in the PCA bundle:
OK...now THIS is superior gear, dammit! Check it...
Top row contains a couple of attenuverters, then an entire setup to allow for four stompbox inserts...buffered mult for up to 1-4 division, then four Syinsi FX send/return tiles, paired with a 4-1 audio mixer.
Middle: format switcher heaven! Bananas to 3.5mm and also 1/4". In the middle, also...a 2hp 4-1 mixer, a switchable mult (either 2 four-way or 1 eight-way) and a gate/trigger diode OR combiner.
Bottom row...big surprise...mults and a pair of Syinsi scalers, to work with the dual inverter in the middle. Why? Well, with these, you can also perfectly integrate an MS-20 Mini into this whole mess! Bidirectional, too...there's a scaler and inverter for both a 'to' and 'from' function. Also, more attenuverters and a couple of att-offsets in case there's a need (invariably, there always is!) for some DC offset voltage for transposition, shifting modulation waveforms, etc etc.
All this fits in a Pulplogic Zissou LBZ54 for portability, self-powered. A bit spendy...but the idea here is that, since you're considering a real leap into patchables and cross-format connection, THIS is the permanent solution! It can function effectively as a crossconnection nexus, with the sort of utility bits you'd want right there.
Hi guys.
I like to get into the world of modular.
What i have:
- A budget around 4000 EUR.
- A DAW (cubase 9.5) with an RME Raydat Interface.
- A Beringer ADA8200
- A SE-02 Synth
- Komplete Kontrol, Maschine Studio
- A lot of Plugins and Softsynth
As you can see, I am/was a VST only Guy.
What i do:
Most of my Productions fall into Synthpop, Futurepop and Synthwave. Allways mixed with some 8bit Chiptune Sounds. Sometimes i like it even a little harsh going into heavy Distortion and running the Synth thru GuitarAmp (simulations...)
What i want:
I want a to go modular. With buying my first analoge synth (SE-02) i think this little machine sounds so amazing. I tried to emulate the se-02 with my u-He Diva. I came close but maybe only in my imagination, that little box sounded fuller and fatter. But after a few weeks i reached the limitations. After all it is 3 OSC -> Mixer -> Filter with 2 envs and a delay.
I want this (becourse i know how to program sounds in need quickly), but i want more.
I want to play may Modular with my Komplete Kontrol Keyboard and record it into cubase. As i have 3 ADAT in/out free (only one is connected to my ada8200), i can probably use Expert Sleepers Stuff for that purpose.
I want route signals out of cubase, run them thru Hardware. And i want modules that just cannot be done with some VSTs (or in a way better soundquality) I have some tube distortion, ringmodulation and maybe a vocoder in mind.
Is my sound is often 80ties related i would love filters from juno, but of course a moog filter is also nice. Maybe i can even add my Chiptune passion later on. So what do you think of my Rack. As i am totaly new, i probably forgot something.
Colors are a mess - you should get some new shaders from Tess in the Tower
Great design, really excited for this one!
Thank you very much, Lugia - I will go for more envelopes for sure.
Great idea, Lugia! Ok so another idea- what are your thoughts on the Make Noise Black and Gold System? It has the good modules from Make Noise that can be used later on as well. Also what are your thoughts on the wacky looking cartoonish yellow Endorphins.es package- a good system for industrial techno or no?
Yeah, that's the bundle that works best for the Phenol...quite familiar with it.
If that's the general idea, my take on how to approach this would be, in order: 0-Coast (which you have), Phenol bundle, Field Kit (because at that point, you will need a mixer), then the Modulor114. Then...surprise, surprise...the Ants!, because at that point you can break it out in all directions and no longer have to depend on its sound production alone. It becomes part of all of the other patchables for beefing their capabilities up, making it an 'expander' for the whole rig rather than something with an inherently weak sound in of itself.
Then...once you get up to speed on that setup...add a very simple Buchla device. In fact, what I have in mind is only two modules in a LEM3: the 252e Polyphonic Rhythm Generator and a 223e Kinesthesic Input Port/Controller. Yeah...that's about $6k, but it gives you a combination master performance controller and sequencer which can either patch directly to the Phenol or, via a format changer or two more, can interface directly with ALL of the rig, giving you the rhythmic/CV sequencer plus a 3-space multiassignable touchplate controller. Terrifying! But it integrates the entire pile of stuff as a singular instrument, and in essence, you've already built the 'rack' out of the patchables. If you did feel the need to add Eurorack (or other) modules after that point, the amount needed would likely be minimal, and limited to exotic devices, as all of the basics would be handled in the integrated patchable rig.
OK...flow was seriously reworked. Clock and Disting + mult are now upper-left. Audio sources next, starting with the Plonk so it can take a trigger out easily from the Tempi, then the oscillators after that, into your Veils. Filter after that...which puts the entire audio generation/modification chain up top along with your clocking.
Bottom row starts with the LFOs, then the sequencer so it can tap-upwards for its clock, then back up again to the oscillators nearby. All the envelope gens are grouped now, and proximal to the Tempi as well for triggers. I added a TriATT to make it easy to scale and invert your modulation sources (this is why it's last in the modulation section) as well as provide offset voltages or serve as an extra mixer...it's quite versatile for its size and cost.
Then the Frames for mixing, taking the filter feed down to the bottom where the mod sources are to modulate the Frames. Next, another addition: an Erica Pico DSP. This adds some basic effect processing, plus also stereoizes the Frames' output so it works better with the fully-stereo Clouds, then off to the outputs. Or, alternately, you can take a pair out from the Frames and feed this to the Clouds, then using the Pico DSP to put effects on the feed from the VCF to the Frames. Lots of potential there.
You'll notice, also, that I ejected the uZeuses in favor of a 4ms Row Power 40; this is more than adequate for the build's current draw, returns 4 hp back to other modules, and simplifies the power arrangement, eliminating the need for two P/S modules.
All flow now works left-to-right on both rows, with the ability to 'loom' up or downwards as needed in a fairly logical order. This should be a lot smoother to work with!
Thanks Lugia! Yeah the package at Perfect Circuit Audio has the format changer box I think for the Phenol:
https://www.perfectcircuitaudio.com/kilpatrick-audio-phenol-patchable-analog-synthesizer.html
I am thinking this combined with either the Sound Machines Modulor 114 and Koma Field Kit would be tons of fun to get started with along with the Endorphin.es system. I priced out the cheapest Buchla and cheapest Serge system and the Serge was over 3k and the cheapest Buchla was 5k! So for what just one of the Buchla or Serge cost, I can have 3 portable modular systems and change left over! Then I can think about building a rack from scratch.
For the direction you want to go in, which is really aggro and f**ked up, I'm thinking that the best in these early stages would be the Phenol, but make sure you get a format-changer box to convert back and forth from it and the 0-Coast. That's necessary not only because the 0-Coast and Phenol use very different jack formats, but the Phenol needs the interface box to extend its ground-plane to so that it can go on over the 'shield' on the 3.5mm jacks. Yeah...this could get real fun, real quick!
USA...makes sense, since Mutable's in the EU and Intellijel is Canadian and subject to NAFTA tariff relaxations. Same difference, though...they're pretty much interchangeable.
Right...in fact, Maths is more complex, because you also have CV over 'rise' and 'fall' rates, allowing you to CV-shape the resulting output curves on the fly as part of your patch. Basically, it's a module that's derived from the classic Serge Dual Universal Slope Generator...and as such, you can use it as an envelope, complex function gen, LFO, or even an actual VCO at a pinch!
As for the 3hp Erica DSP...think carefully here: most of your signal paths tend to be mono, but the DSP has a mono in and stereo outs, meaning that not only is it an effects processor, it's also where you can generate a stereo signal to feed both channels of the Clouds. I jammed that in like that so that you could take a mono signal, stereoize it for the Clouds, then pass the Clouds on to the stereo channel of the Erica mixer. Thinking in signal chains like that is a real key to getting maximum function out of a build!
Looking at the Stages specs right now...I think that may well be your best option for multiple envelopes. I think several 2 hp ADSRs might be a good idea, however, simply for the VCA contours over the Praga to get your final dynamic shaping prior to the output chain. Looking at the second build above, I see six VCAs outside of the Praga...using the Stages as a one-shot (or some multiple EG configuration) should be able to feed most or all of those properly, leaving only the Praga's channel VCAs.
You need 8 hp. If you were to drop the Erica Voice and Mod, and one Disting, that would give 10. So, four ADSRs, then replace the Mod with either an AD or another ADSR so you actually get that function back...that might button this thing up!
Check with Metasonix themselves. I know they offer some P/S options that can handle their tube module draws, most notably across the 5V rail for the tube filaments. They're also cogniscent that the filaments draw considerably more on startup than once they're at operating temperature, since they have to overcome the thermal version of inertia in order to get up to operating temps. Once there, they draw 'less'...although, that's one massive 'less' that they draw.
Erica also has a solution to filament voltages, but I'm not sure if it's compatible with Metasonix modules...it might just be for their own tube modules. In their case, there's a retrofitted 6.3VDC supply added which supplies the filaments.
Congrats on the 0-Coast, btw...now you can see the screaming raw POWER that having full control over the patch architecture offers! To quote noted actor and weirdo John Travolta: "Ain't it cool?"
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_645205.jpg
This is my real life set up , but not sure if this is the best order to have my modules. Also what am I missing. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks
Wowzer Lugia you are fountain of Eurorack knowledge! Thanks man for the lesson. Ok, so I finally got my brand spanking new Make Noise 0coast yesterday in the post and went to town learning and trying new patches, it is fun! Now I definitely want to get into modular when new funds permit of course. I actually much prefer the west coast synth over east coast. Of the modules, would you get for a newbie to patching and modular:
Kilpatrick Audio Phenol
Endorphin.es shuttle
Sound Machines Modulor 114
Elby Designs EuroSerge Performance System
Buchla Snoopy LEM
and why? Bear in mind my goal is to crank out dark, dirty, nasty industrial aggro-type German techno like Funker Vogt, Wumpscut, Ministry, Front 242 and NIN. I know that Trent Reznor used Moog but he also used Buchla later on with Alessandro Cortini.
BTW here is me patching the 0coast:
Thanks for your proposition! I'll have a closer look at it.
Maths was on my list, but couldn't manage to fit it in. I'm hesitating a lot between the Pico DSP and the Black Hole DSP which comes with more controls and effects.
What I like about the Dual ADSR are the extra options (EOD, cycle), but Maths seems to have similar options.
I don't know where you live, but here everywhere I look the Veils is 20 to 40€ cheaper than the Intellijel Quad!! :-P
Great experiences selling modules to @CFF3 and @Leane!
@Leane was very patient after USPS shipped to the wrong zip code, and delivery took a week longer than expected. Thanks Leane!
Top Lugia, thank's alot - I will free some space for the envelopes. Because I am a sound designing nerd I have to keep the O'tools oscilloscope.
Option A: If I drop the Synthrotek ADSR and one Disting the 8hp could be filled with four envelope generators by 2hp (2x AD/AR module and 2x ADSR module). The rack would look like this:
Option B: If I drop the WMD MSCL and the Ladik Output module for the suggested Pico Out, and furthermore dropping the Pico Logic, Synthrotek ADSR and Optomix (LxD instead as my low pass gate) that together would free up space for...
...the very new Mutable Instruments Stages - should be a super flexible envelope generator with one huge six step envelope or for example DADSR, AD and ADSR, 2x ASR, 3x AR or AD etc. Alternatively the Stages LFO function could be dialed in. Envelope curves can be shaped and time/level CV manipulated. I think that could help me out with my envelope problem in this rack (Peaks could be dedicated to the Praga in expert mode with 2x ADSR). The Stages just shows up the right time... yeah! The last 2hp could be filled with the Pluck to have some Karplus-Strong sounds (no Rings or Plaits on board).
So the rest of my rack will be developed like this (still not sure about final arrangement of the modules - so I configured two arrangement options). What do you finally think?
Arrangement option 1:
Arrangement option 2:
Haha now that would be scary in real life! Yeah I need to add power what would you recommend to handle the modules? Right now been playing with my new Make Noise 0coast semi modular and tested first patch! So much fun now I know Eurocrack is calling my name when money is available :-)
I think you just blew up a Row Power 40.
Seriously, check your draw on the R-55's 5V tap. This build wouldn't even make it through the warmup of that module before the Magic Blue Smoke got out.
It's getting closer, to be sure...my instinct, though, would be to drop the second Disting (fun tho that might be) in favor of a second Synthrotek ADSR (good pick), and then still trying to jam a couple more AR-types in. Remember, if you're using the Praga as the performance mixer, that also has exponential VCAs for its audio and you can feed envelopes to those to do your final dynamic shaping. Having one more ADSR would help the Praga really shine in that way, and then you can use the extra AR/ASRs to do the envelope response, linear VCA mixer response, and also for a bit of extra modulation sources. Maybe dropping the O'Tool would free up a bit more for that, as this rig seems to me to be a bit envelope-hungry.
Otherwise...it's getting there!
OK...you'll notice I made the cab bigger but many modules got smaller; as a result, it's a tighter, better-implemented version. Case is a Pittsburgh EP-270 (3 x 90 hp), inexpensive for the size but with beefy power specs: 4A on +12, 3 on -12, and 2 on 5 to power 1679mA on the +12 rail, 861mA on -12, and 25mA on the 5V. This way, the power supply gets to loaf along on a light load, reducing heat and component stress and improving stability.
5 VCOs now: I shrank the Verbos Complex VCO in favor of a Sputnik, which is not only smaller, it has a little bit more going on functionally. Then there's a TZFM VCO, and two regular Doepfers. Ring mod got added, then a 4-in summing mixer before a Tiptop wavefolder with a suboctave generator. Triple VCA mixer at the end along with a passive mult (the one at the VCO end is active, plus tandemmed with a dual switchable-direction slew limiter).
Modulation row: noise/random/S+H, then a pair of EMW LFOs. Maths (of course) next, then the next two modules are an Intellijel Quadra (four AR/ASR loopable envelopes) with its expander/CV control. Erica dual ADSR next, then two filters: a Doepfer A-106-1 and a Limaflo Motomouth.
Now, these are weird filters, to be sure. The Doepfer is a dirtier take on a Korg MS-20 Sallen-Key pair, but it has this weird feature: an insert point in its resonance feedback circuit. This means that you can drop stuff into that path and alter how the filter pair deals with its resonance signal in loads of ways...for example, the filter next to it, which is a very weird vocal formant-morphing thing. So, with that sort of path, you can have the regular LP/HP combo, but everything feeding back to cause resonance is getting colored up by vocal vowel formants. That's just one example of this sort of A-106-1-type mayhem. There's others, to be sure.
Bottom row: your Metropolis is there, but I did something to the Quantimator: it mutated into a two-channel Doepfer quantizer and a two-channel shift register, with a lot of potential variation that the single-channel Quantimator could never have pulled off. Now, you can actually assign one voicing to the first quantizer/shift register, and put another on the second two...or put the VCO pitches on one side and the filter cutoffs on the other, or...well, you get the idea. Same device, but twice as nice! Two more VCAs, primarily for CV use but they can also switch to exponential for audio, then a TriATT, which can be used as a set of attenuverters, a 3-in mixer, or three channels of CV offset...or a couple of those at the same time.
Four-in stereo mixer, this goes to the Morphagene, which allows you to loop/granulate/warp/mangle the entire synth's output in stereo, with the output module (with transformer isolation and a ganged stereo level pot) right there for output to line-level.
So, yeah...it's quite a bit of your idea, just refined, put into a bigger case, and tightened up with a straightforward signal flow pattern. Fairly cost-effective for the size, too...modules came in at $5106, case is $599 street. Now that's a respectable starter Eurorack, with an eye for unconventional sound and plenty of potential. Whatcha think?
That's what's nice about certain of the patchable systems...if they're properly done, you have ample choices, plus the expandability into actual modules is built-in and doesn't have to be kludged into working.
Explaining Phenol...OK, back at the beginning of synthesis, Don Buchla's systems wound up all up and down the West Coast at various schools, one of which was CalArts. And there was constant hassles over getting time on the sole Buchla system they had, so Serge Tcherepnin who was an instructor and composer there around 1970 came up with this idea to cook up some basic module boards, parts kits, predrilled panels, and paper panel layouts, and offer these to the students as a project that a number of them could collaborate in building, with the result being that everyone wound up with a few panels which made up a fairly potent patchable synth. These originals actually had no name, and were mostly assembled in an ad-hoc assembly line around a courtyard at CalArts' music department, and wound up being called 'Serge' synths because it was Serge Tcherepnin who cooked the whole project up.
Serge made some changes over Don's designs, though. First off, Serge made his systems more interconnection-friendly. Early Buchlas used all sorts of non-standard voltages and separated the control signals from the audio. Serge changed this so that his modules worked with 1V/8va scaling and positive triggers, and put the audio and control signals back as one single jack group, so that audio could easily be used as CVs, and vice-versa. Second, the actual Serges always tended to follow the form factor that had been used in the first place: modules were mounted onto predrilled aluminum panels, and as these became commercial products, you had to specify which modules you wanted on which custom panels for your system...which is a ROYAL pain in the ass to work with, I assure you!
Now, Andrew Kilpatrick and some other synth builders in the 1990s and 2000s decided to try and do the Serge-type connection format in different ways. Bruce Duncan of Modcan, in his Modcan A systems, created very tall/long modules, and Kilpatrick went more toward Buchla's 4U panels, both using bananas while at the same time, both also did Eurorack development (and Modcan also did their 5U 'B' systems). But it was Ken Stone that worked with Rex Probe and Serge Tcherepnin eventually, after devising some similarly Serge-like modules on his own, and this became Elby, which famously did their 'EuroSerge' form factor...3U with banana jacks.
Why banana jack/plugs? Several reasons, actually...
First of all, the patchcables are lunkhead-simple to make. They don't even require soldering, and you only have a single wire, so it's possible to build piles of patchcables with a wire cutter/stripper and a small adjustment screwdriver (the banana plugs have a setscrew in them that holds the wire in place), and these don't tend to wear out over time. Granted, there have been some people who've griped about crosstalk since the 'ground' is established across the panel, but that's really not a hugely consequental issue for most users.
And second, banana plugs are stackable. This eliminates the need for multiples, and also encourages users to splay signals out in all directions for various purposes, so that one signal source might actually be busy doing numerous things with numerous functions all over the place. Hence why the Phenol is such a potent device, despite it actually seeming rather simple. However, this one 'plus' comes with a big caveat: it is easy to get distracted while patching something complicated and accidentally connect an output to another output. Now, if this happens on a conventional two-conductor jack system, if the outputs don't have diode protection, the result can be damage to one or both modules. But on a banana jack system, a patchcord array that has this output-output patching might be capable of damaging several things at once if the synthesist gets sloppy while programming a patch...say, three outputs get connected. Then you'd run a risk of frying all three outputting modules, and the small instance of overvoltage (if that happens) could also overload and 'pop' any inputting modules in the patchcord array. Icky. But this just means you have to be CAREFUL...which you should be, anyway.
Anyway, banana systems are another compact option on par with Eurorack, inasmuch as there's both prebuilds like the Phenol and a sizable module base. Plus Serge/STS also does their 'shop panel' series, prebuilt panels that, while they cost quite a bit, do astonishing things sonically. The Serge was also sort of the original '0-coast' idea; it had the ability to work with subtractive synthesis to a much greater degree than the Buchlas, but patched in a manner more akin to a Buchla and made use of a touchpad key sequencer like Don's systems tended to.
Anyway, yeah, bananas do look a little...odd. But I have stuff here that uses those as well as loads of other jack formats, and I never see any issues with them. Plus the stackability allows a flexibility you just cannot find easily with typical bipolar connection systems. And if you run out of cables...well, just ring up Mouser or Allied or whatever, get a bag of Pomonas and a roll of 16ga stranded copper wire, then bust out the tools for an evening, and soon enough you'll have a pile of new cables to use. Easy-peasy!
Ah ok, I know for next time, thanks ;)
Current consumption numbers here are not accurate, although approved by the manufacturer. The module draws 35mA from the (required) 5V rail according to the Bastl website:
+12V: 5mA
-12V 5mA
+5V: 35mA
Hi all,
I started with a basic build using VCA, VCF, LFO, utilities like clock/slew, VCO. Looking for industrial techno, trance and darker sound in my first rack. Here is what I just sketched out:
What are your thoughts?
All messages which are listed in your outbox are in the inbox of the recipient. Even if the recipient did not get an email, he will see them when he logs into ModularGrid.
A missing feature of the ModularGrid Messenger:
It's not possible to reply to ModularGrid messages from your email program. They go to noreply@modulargrid.net, which is a digital trashcan.
You have to log into ModularGrid and use the messenger there.
Beep, Bopp, Bleep: info@modulargrid.net
Is anybody else having issues with messages? Ive sent a customer messages with tracking number 3 times but they are not receiving them. It looks like i'm dodgy!! Im not btw :)
Hi Lugia,
thank you very much for your effort to give advice on my expansion plans. I appreciate your experience and know-how - awesome!!
Due to space economical reasons in my project studio I don't use a mixer. I hooked up my non-modular synths and FX via balanced patchbays so I could run every synth through the FX/outboard gear I like and than to the audio/ADAT interface (everything in my studio is balanced cabled so I like to have a balanced master output for my modular system, too). Rosie's TRS output ist linked via one of the patchbays to a pair of channels of my audio interface. The system works stand alone (without PC) for jamming, too. Therefore I like the idea to have a small performance mixer in the modular rack helping me quickly dial in loudness, muting and panning when I am jamming electronic and technoid stuff (those basic functions have to be CV controlled for the more ambient and generative tracks on-top of manually mixing). Because of that secnario the Xaoc Praga has been in my mind for a while.
The idea of phase shifting the Telharmonic sounds promising, thanks for that (I have a Vermona analog phaser PH-16 in my 19" rack, so maybe I can utilize this or of cause the super-duper Xaoc Kamienic - but no rack space for this). Concerning the filter there are so many good alternatives, but as you said cause of rack space in combination with what I have and planning to achieve the Xaoc Belgrad should be a super option. Beside its special sound (could be used as a more classy liquid filter, too) I love the Xaoc look & feel and the overall outstanding build quality of their modules. I will put that filter definitely into the rack, I have ordered one today at Schneidersladen in Berlin (coming in at April/May as a new batch of Xaoc Devices is on build hopefully - yeah).
I like your suggestion with the Delphtronics LDB-2 (didn't know the module until yet). Because of the limited size of my modular system I thought a lot about putting dedicated drum modules in it or going with a external drum machine instead. So I think it is a good idea to keep the drums on the small side here and utilize my Elektron Analog Rytm more often besides the modular. To keep things more simple I like the idea to do some basic drum works within the modular via Pico Drums, Tiptop One or sometimes Peaks or Braids and for more crazy stuff Basimilus Iteritas Alter (utilizing the latter for basslines and technoid building blocks instead of percs, too).
One of my main questions still is, how many envelopes will I need. I have a classic envelope on the SV-1. It could need a second ADSR for separate filter and VCA modulation. The Telharmonic needs sometimes an ADSR envelope, too (not only vactrol kind of VCAF filtering like with the Optomix). With Peaks I have two independent envelopes in different style, the Disting could deliver, too (will sell the MK3 though, replacing it with the MK4 - much better user experience with that new small digit display). To ensure another swiss knife function a second Disting could be nuts. Maybe I leave it for a while as is and see what I need in upcoming patching situations. Hm...
As I speek "Optomix" - as I like to keep the Tallin (cause i bought it recently and it sounds amazing as an VCA for audio) - should I plan with the Optomix or should I better drop it for something else? I guess I need a good sounding lowpass gate in my system, maybe using the Make Noise LxD instead of the Optomix and fill up the remaining space with one more envelope generator?
Last but not least thank you very much for your arrangement tips, Lugia. That is what I am struggling with sometimes, luckily with this rack of a manageable size it will somehow work together. Nevertheless I will follow your structure from left to right and bundling functions.
After considering your suggestions in sum I have put the rack like this - of cause not a final building plan. Any more suggestions or comments on that are highly welcome!! :-)
Hey Lugia, big thx for your prompt comment.
I'm seriously considering to switch from that big Cwejman Filter to two smaller but more effective ones. Any advise on some VCFs should be good for me? I also have to explain you that I've got a studio with no modular synths and just vintage gear (mostly Roland...)and I've always been fascinated by the power of older oscillator and filter. So I would try to get some modules that are as possibly powerful as the other I have, any ideas? I've been quite impressive by the vibe of the Verbos CO, and that's the reason I fit it in the system.
The other reason I'm searching for an help is that my mind is likely to think sound out of a "normal" style synthesis (1 or 2 vcos, 1 lfo, adsr etc etc), but I know that keeping limits into modular world could be the main limit! Despite that I linked in the threat the incomplete system, the correct one was https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_644608.jpg.
Looking for your suggestions, have a good one :)
Marco
This looks cool as well the Endorphin.es Shuttle modular system- so many choices!
The Phenol looks well laid out and easy to understand so it would be a consideration in spite of the weird banana clip format which I am not crazy about as using standard Eurorack cables makes life easier. I would need to make a trip to LA to try all this gear out. Or mix and match with both a Phenol and Modulor 114 and add in the Koma Field Kit and go insane in backpack portable modular gear.
What is weird is that after spending lot of time watching videos of the expensive modular systems, I can do most of it on my single Elektron Analog 4 MKII box! I do want modular but the price tag is much higher than non modular hardware synths.
Yeah, I saw that demo, too...not the best programming work there, true. But keep in mind that when you crossconnect devices, a lot of shortcomings that you'd see in a device like that tend to vanish because the interconnectivity can allow you to route around the things that don't work well in that particular box, but then you can also use those 'don't work well' things in conjunction with ones that do, also. Phenol was another one I perhaps should've mentioned, although you'll need a format-changer box to go from bananas to 3.5mms to pair it.
But then, there's the terrifying idea of two Phenols, too...and this leads in the direction of Serge-type gear, which Elby, Random*Source and others can do in Eurorack format but _also_ with bananas. And there's something to be said for that patching format, because multiples aren't needed at all, and signals can start branching all over the place, leading to some VERY complex sounds. Another consideration, perhaps...?
Yeah I did not care for the demos of the Plankton Ants it was not much different than a few presets on my Elektron Analog 4. I do like the sounds from the demos of the Modulor 114 and also the Kilpatrick Audio Phenol as well as the Dreadbox Erebus and NYX. So I would probably get the Modulor 114 and Dreadbox before jumping into building a 10k Eurorack system.
Well, like I said, don't get discouraged. MG is an incredible resource for figuring out what you actually are trying to accomplish sonically and what bits and pieces, in what order, work to get you there. Spend some time here researching others' racks and seeing what experienced synthesists are doing, asking questions, and working on lots of builds to try and sketch out an approach. True, modular synthesizers aren't a thing to just dive into casually...especially these days...but the fact is that it's loads easier now thanks to resources like MG to eventually arrive at something that you intuitively KNOW you can live with and work with for years to come. Takes time, and practice...like most anything else worthwhile!
Hmm...well, maybe put a second DixieII+ in instead of the Doepfer. Saves space, which you need with that honkin' big Verbos Buchla 200 clone.
I'd also try and dissuade you from that Cwejman filter. Again, it's huge (which means it's stealing space for some other things you need) and quite spendy for what it is. You could likely get more done with two smaller VCFs, especially if you can interlink them, then you'd have room for the VCAs that you're missing and the multiples you need to spread certain CVs out.
Think smaller modules here. The devices that make sense that are large (Metropolis, Verbos VCO, Maths) leave you way less room than you need if you keep using large panel spaces. That, or scrap the rack and move up to something bigger...which might be a good idea, actually. Starting with more space and having to figure out how to fill it once your mission-specific modules are in place is usually more rewarding than hitting that cab's hp limit and then realiing that there's important bits missing.
Ahhh...you missed one: the Plankton Ants!. It's a killer value for $599, one you should consider even alongside one of the others as an expander. Plus if paired with the Modulor 114, you'd then have a very small (backpack-sized) setup with 6 VCOs, for starters. Consider those two together; they come in at about the same price (or less) than the others. Toss it together with the logical mixer (ie: a Koma Field Kit), and you'd have a rig that could fit easily in a backpack or small carry-on case.
