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Hello guys,
I am new to this community and I decided to build my own Eurorack. I am starting with building my case from a Thon rack case (about 100hp and 6U). I already have a Behringer Neutron which I now is not that good but I will use it until a can afford to replace it with better modules.
This is my rack:
I would love to hear your opinion on it and if it's even functional like that.
Side note:
I will first buy the things that are on this rack and then I am planning on removing the Neutron and replacing it with better modules.
This is the final one:
a vco into a vca into mixer - check that this makes sound (make sure that the volume is up etc)
then patch bbd in between the output of the vca and the mixer
make sure volume is up on correct channel and then play a single note with the vco - ideally very very short - as minimum delay time is 10ms - so make sure you have a noticeable delay time dialled in
make sure level on delay is not 0 - keep increasing this until you can hear the delay or have run out of travel in the knob
make sure that mix is past 12 o'clock - increase this if the previous step
another thing to do is to check the board components for signs of damage - burnt bits, bad smell, sticky residue - post pics (hi-res)
one other thing to note with doepfer modules - I have one that had the power cable on the wrong way (and not one that was just pull it out and switch it as it is connected to multiple boards) which would have been fine with unshrouded headers (which doepfer at least used to use) - but as I had shrouded ones I had to cut the key off the header to get it to fit - make sure that the red-stripe is correctly situated on both ends of the power cable
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
case - imo poor choice for a starter case - as are all 'beauty cases'
good examples of starter cases are doepfer lc9 or tiptop mantis
why? because they are the best value for money cases out there and have been proven over years of service - they are not so small that they will be filled immediately and they are not so big that they cannot be moved, reasonably easily
beauty cases are great as extensions to larger cases - control skiff, sequencer skiff etc - but most experienced modular synthesists will point you towards a bigger case (at least to start with) so that you can find the modules that you want and the modules that you need to support them and leave space to expand (preferably 20-30%)
saying that you should not have any compatibility issues with modules that are not too deep (check this - especially the doepfer modules - 45mm and 50mm), power looks ok - are there enough power headers? (you can get flying extensions from intellijel if not)
in terms of power you should always leave at least 25-30% headroom (to account for inaccuracies and onrush needs) on all rails - otherwise you will get unexpected results - anything from lights flashing weirdly and then switching off to burning out power supply and/or module components
quite frankly the odessa/hel combination on it's own is too big for this size case - as are to a large extent multiple voices - it's difficult to fit 2 vcos and the support modules for them in such a small case not counting the size of odessa/hel
how are you intending to play this synth? iirc to take full advantage of the polyphony of odessa you really want 4 v/oct signals just for that one module - but no sequencing or midi-> cv converter in the case - iirc there is part of one included in the case, b ut yoou still need to buy a module to use it and iirc it only has 2 sets of v/oct gate outputs - so can only play 2 notes at once
you almost definitely will want way more in the way of vcas - 2 vcas is not really enough for a single mono voice of a vco and filter - especially once you start using vcas for more interesting purposes - modulating modulation and controlling volume not just note shape, compression, cross-fading and auto panning (to name a few uses for them) - with essential supporting modules such as polarizers and offsets which you have neither of
I would advise you to start again with a bigger case and work out what modules you want and what you actually need to support them and get that verified by people here as a workable synth - this will probably work out less expensive in the long run
when you do this it is a good idea to also specify what sort of music you want to make and what your budget is (not only the starter budget, but ongoing monthly/yearly)
and I speak from experience I started with a 72hp 6u case - I ran out of space within 6 months and case number 2 had to be bought, roughly 5 years on from that I have 6 cases with a total of roughly 1500hp - looking back if I'd bought case 2 first I may never have gone past it's 208hp (a mantis)
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I'm currently planning my first modular system, and I'd love to have some advice. I've included two VCO's – a simple one: Electrosmith 3340 and a more complex one – but still intuitive –: Xaoc Devices Odessa. As I'm very interested in sound sculpting and filtering, I've chosen a multimode filter such as the Joranalogue Filter 8. Then, the basics: envelope generator, LFO's, and VCA's. And a small Intellijel oscilloscope basically to visualise the frequency values as well as a stereo mixer.
No idea what any of that means to be honest ... I ended up getting a 4MS Row Power and a pair of Synthrotek noise filtering busboards. Wasn't the cheapest solution, but everything's working like a charm now. Now I just need to replace that mixer......
So in my first month or two noodling with modular, there have been some ups and down and a learning curve, but the majority of my modules I've learned how to use effectively.
The exception is my Doepfer BBD. I cannot for the life of me get it to do ... anything, really.
I do have the manual, though I kind of glaze over when trying to read it, it's pretty dry. What I have done is tried the example patches they include at the end of the manual, and every time, the best result I can get it just an audio pass-thru ... no delay, no chorus, no noticeable effect at all, as far as I can tell.
I've resisted thinking there's something wrong with the module, since 99% of the time such thoughts are just due to me misunderstanding something, but at this point I'm beginning to wonder.
If someone has this module and had any similar trouble with it or has some pointers or there is something about it that's easy to misunderstand, please let me know. I got it used and I don't think I can return it, so if I can't get it to do something, it's probably destined to be a paperweight.
4MS PEG (Dual Envelope Generator)
and I also had, but sold off
Befaco Rampage (Dual Envelope Generator)
I'm fairly new to modular, but so far, I like both in different ways.
So far, I use the Doepfer more so for applying ADSR to audio signals, and it seems fairly versatile with separate CV inputs for A/D/S/R, variable CV triggering levels for each, End of Attack / End of Rise triggers, Inverted output, and a couple other potentially handy options. Be aware that like many Doepfers it is a sort of obnoxiously deep module though, won't fit in a shallow skiff.
The 4MS PEG was frustrating at first (as was the Befaco Rampage) because I expected it to work sort of like an ADSR (or an AD anyway) and was trying to apply it mainly to audio signals. That can work -- sort of -- but not very well. I got the impression it was really intended more to manipulate CV levels as opposed to directly effecting audio signals, and once I started applying it that way, it came into its own a lot more so. It's way less predictable and a lot more finicky than a digital equivalent would be in a DAW, but I guess that's true for pretty much all modular, and now that I've gotten the hang of it I like it quite a bit. It's very versatile and can add a lot of complexity to a patch. The Befaco Rampage was pretty much the same thing, I only had room for one at the time and chose the 4MS because I've generally liked the modules of theirs that I have.
I'm looking into more ADSR options myself, so interesting reading through this thread to get some ideas.
Ahhhhh...you tried to defy the MG Kitty! Living dangerously there...
Hmmmm...OK, let's see...if the build from earlier would take two years, and there's a car driving 60 MPH halfway between Cleveland and Chicago, and it's a Wednesday in October, then my hat is actually orange. Oh, wait...
OK, given that the build was double what it ought to be, let's screw with it some. Gonna play "How low can you go"...
EDIT: OK, I scrunched this somewhat, managed to drop the cost by $700-ish AND added more neat functions:
The top row got changed a lot. But it got even more entertaining. First up, the Bufflide got removed, but this allowed me to add the polyphony adapter for the Xaoc Odessa, which is now the main VCO. This sucker's WAY too complex to explain here; go and have a look at the specs instead. And then, for two more oscillators, I put in the mkii version of Klavis' Twin Waves...very useful devices, as they not only are wavetable VCOs, they also have internal quantization...meaning that you can create single-voice patterns from LFO curves, etc with a bit of patching creativity. I put a replication of the final mixer modules after that so that you can generate a stereo submix of the oscillators to feed to the Olivella stereo SVF, and then this passes to the Beads. So there's still that subtractive aspect there, but now you've got some rather potent digital VCOs to feed it.
Middle row was not spared, either. I put in an Erica Black Modulator v.2 for noise, sample and hold, and an extra LFO. Tides was added for a "slow" modulation source. VCAs, Maths...and then an interesting attenuverter module from ADDAC that can also output sum and difference voltages from thruputted modulation signals. This should allow the modulation aspect to get even MORE complex...while still saving a bit of $$ there. Then I put in the current "do it all" modulator, Intellijel's Quadrax and its Qx expander to allow lots of complex internal and keyed external behavior. And there's still two ADSRs there, courtesy of Doepfer's A-140-2.
Bottom row antics saw me change to an Erica two-voice MIDI interface and the swap of a Temps Utile for the Pam's. Then there's six channels of clock manipulation via a Shakmat Time Wizard. Pulse delays next, then the Boolean logic, and THEN the diode OR for pulse combination. The rest of the row is otherwise unchanged.
It's not the simplest thing to try and "down-budget" from a previous build, but it CAN be done. As mentioned, this shaves about $700 US from the cost that I can see here. But it's approaching a zone where I wouldn't want to cheap it down further, because beyond this point you're likely to see compromises in functionality that would make this less of a teaching/lab tool and more like a personal instrument, and this probably shouldn't go in that direction.
You are waaay too kind, I'll re-check my levels, I've been turning everything down as the first few streams last weekend were distorted. :)
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Yeah, another video/track from you! :-) Interesting sounds you got here. What are those two modules with those rather large red knobs in the left bottom corner?
I missed a bit the (full) cup of coffee though ;-) Thanks a lot for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular
Thank you once again Garfield! yeah, no cup of coffee this time haha.
This is not two but one module, the Complex Oscillator by Verbos. I fell in love with its sound, it is inspired from a Buchla module from the same name. I can recommend you the youtube video "the most beautiful eurorack oscillator", thats what made me buy it!
Thank you for your kind words Garfield.
Nicolas
Fun VCOs? OK...the first one on my list is a double VCO that sortakinda can link the VCOs together in various ways. In a sense, it's the "poor man's Buchla 258": https://www.modulargrid.net/e/noise-reap-paradox
In all of these cases, the VCOs that are part of these modules have ways to crossmodulate, which in the end yields some rather complex spectra. With the right additional modules to get control of these, they'll yield some amazing textures and timbres.
-- Lugia
Yeah, another video/track from you! :-) Interesting sounds you got here. What are those two modules with those rather large red knobs in the left bottom corner?
I missed a bit the (full) cup of coffee though ;-) Thanks a lot for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Oh no, you didn't? :-) You provide here over 18 minutes of sonic pleasure! Wow, the tension is so strong, finally can start to breath-in again around 3 minutes when your next voice kicks in, so beautifully done!
Seriously pity of those ticks caused by your sound card, that, to be honest, spoils it a bit for me, but otherwise this is just superb!
Then around 5 minutes you build up another tension that I almost can't take it ;-) When you build up yet again, I get goose bumps! Here and there this reminds me a bit of a modern Jean-Michel Jarre of his earlier days :-)
Just emotionally being able to all cope with this where you around 7:30+ and after 8:00 seriously sound like the next J.M. Jarre! Jeepers, this is seriously good! The next time I talk to Mr. Jarre I will recommend him that he should consider you as his successor ;-)
Beside the sound card you might need to have a look at your recording volume as well, is it perhaps a bit too loud? Or has that been caused by the sound card too?
I don't mind to have an album Oxygene - Part IV like this ;-) This is how weekends should be closed down! Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Live streamed, same patch as last time but with added TB-03...
Look out for the highlights of Cat and a lot of elbow action! Oh, and screwing the tuning up by accident!
The usual pops and crackles are from the crappy soundcard, just ordered a Roland Rubix 22 secondhand on ebay.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Agreed, the P6/9 seem bad value, L6 and Thomann case still comes £100 less.
I know what you mean about having everything in one LC9, but we simply can't order the whole rig, we need to split it over two year's budget. In the long run, it means another 84 Hp row to fill in with toys, and please feel free to throw in some ideas! Something built around Elements sound good, been looking at Metropolis too, but it might be redundant if a Shared System arrives later. And yes, the M32 will stay out, I was just trying to get rid of that annoying cat..
Thanks again for your advice, certainly appreciate your kindness to a newbie!
Fun VCOs? OK...the first one on my list is a double VCO that sortakinda can link the VCOs together in various ways. In a sense, it's the "poor man's Buchla 258": https://www.modulargrid.net/e/noise-reap-paradox
In all of these cases, the VCOs that are part of these modules have ways to crossmodulate, which in the end yields some rather complex spectra. With the right additional modules to get control of these, they'll yield some amazing textures and timbres.
My suggestion would actually be to expand the control capabilities at this point. Instead of a regular Keystep, though, I'd suggest the Keystep Pro. The sequencer is on the order of complexity of the BSP, the keyboard controller feels decent, plus you get some extra controllers in its ribbons. But if the task here is to up the sequencing complexity, I think you'll find the KSP to be just the thing.
And when you expand the modular itself, then you'll already be set up to handle a more complex rig.
P6 isn't a bad idea...it's just that, if you try and build that build above in there + the M32 (seriously, keep that thing in its own cab), you're going to need TWO P6es. Then this comes to $1060 for the pair of those alone, whereas with the LC9, you have the entire teaching rig in one case, and the cab cost is $435. Even if you had Thomann make a flight case for it (via their custom case service), you'd still come in lower with the LC9. But for moving the cab around the department, you won't really find the flight case all that useful.
I suggest you look at Lugia's draft racks and posts on the forum -- that will give you LOTS of ideas on what directions you could go. Lugia's racks are well designed, balanced, and a good use of HP. And his posts on rack designs are great.
The modular domain is SO wide open, IMO it takes having a concrete vision "this is my draft next rack, HP to work with, budget etc." and some iterations improving the design (with forum help) to go from an infinity of options to a next build that actually makes sense, sounds good, and is fun to use.
As far as actual modules go, I love complex oscillators (like Make Noise DPO and Instruo C-sl), wavefolders (like Intellijel Bifold) and power-filters (like Rossum Linneaus, Morpheus, or Intellijel Morgasmatron). Those types of modules embody what makes modular fun and interesting for me. So, I recommend you consider what types of modules are inspiring to you, and consider what type of build will support those. And remember, you'll need a good number of utilities to make a modular system work well! Balancing the modular system so it has a good proportion of module types -- this is key.
Since your main interest is Ambient, a few ideas that come to me from quickly scanning your rig:
-- Joranalogue Morph 4 for blending / mixing signals in interesting ways. DivKid has a great video on that and his demonstration goes way way beyond what I would imagine the module could be used for.
-- maybe some of the "Chaos" modules from Nonlinear Circuits to add a bit of musical sloppiness to your patches?
-- some of the Rossum filters might be fun for you, like Linneaus and/or Morpheaus. The Rossum filters have really changed my idea of what a filter is -- e.g. it can be not only a filter in the classical sense, but also a more complex waveshaper or part of the soundsource depending on how you patch it.
-- for me, a lot of the joy of modular is in complex oscillators (like Make Noise DPO, Instruo C-sl, etc.) and waveshapers. These might not make a ton of sense in an Ambient setup? But when I see a larger modular setup (like yours) that doesn't already have a couple modules like that, I think "why not add some if you have room and $s"? For waveshapers, I particularly like Intellijel Bifold; Joranalogue Fold 6 and Instruo's shapers are also nice. All of those are probably a bit more controlled than the Plasma Drive (the PD I'm familiar with only through some videos).
My responses above are very much "free association," not at all a disciplined list of "must have" adds. And I know your post is UTILITIES focused; my list above is ideas across any module type. But I would hope at least 1 of these ideas above is interesting or useful for you.
ES8 is good choice but you may find the 4 inputs a bit limiting especially if you like processing and effecting drum voices separately in your DAW. For this reason I paired mine with an es-6 so that may be an option later down the road and the combined size is still 4 hp smaller than the es9 albeit with less functionality. I personally thought that was a better option although I also considered Lugia's setup at the time but connecting firewire to tb3 was expensive as I needed 3 dongles in the end that were about £80 if I recall, but if you have the dongles already this would be a great option and I still think some of these older devices still look great in the rack with their LED displays.
Hey, thanks for the feedback. The rack is really a recommended build based on my goals of being able to interface with my Hydrasynth desktop and having as much flexibility/options that you could in a Rackbrute 6U. To date I only have the Maths and having been playing around a little bit with that connected up to my Hydrasynth. I think my next investment is going to be the ES8 so I can start playing around with CV Tools as well. Definitely open to suggestions if you have any based on my goal of using what I already have (Hydrasynth, Focusrite 8i6, Ableton, Push2 and Launchkey 49)
8 outputs are more than enough for me on the ES8 for modulation as I only use these when I run out of modulation sources in my rack or from my 2 neutrons
Confused me on this one...did you say above you also have an ES6 that you use with ES8 because you felt a bit limited?...but then you are saying 8 outputs are more than enough...sorry, maybe i'm completely misunderstanding your point, I'm really new to thd modular world.
Why do you need your cosmix, Intellijel audio I/O and the fx aid xl as you could effect and mix in Ableton using your es8 inputs.
This build was really a recommendation for something to consider based on wanting to integrate my Hydrasynth with whatever I build (I forgot to mention above I also have a Minibrute 2 that I may want to plug in as well)...but ultimately looking to run audio back into Ableton using my Focusrite 8i6. Definitely open to module suggestions as I'm limiting myself to the Rackbrute 6U for a variety of reasons...so want to pack as much flexibility into it as possible.
I thought adding the Intellijel audio I/O would allso me to run the audio out of my Hydrasynth through my modular for fun and then the outs from it to the input on my Focusrite? maybe i'm not thinking it through correctly...
My recommendation for a small versatile ambient setup would be the Synthesis Technology E352 Cloud Terrarium or even Mutable Instruments Plaits.
-- farkas
I had Braids before and got a lot out of it, so have been looking at Plaits. Will check out the E352 also. Thanks
I'm creating a rig aimed at ambient & granular, and am interested in hearing about other people's favorite oscillators for ambient.
I've been out of modular for a while and there are so many more VCOs in just a few short years. I don't have a strict sound in mind, but I'd like to get something somewhat versatile. I don't have a preference for digital or analogue. It's likely I'll end up with two oscillators in any case. Thanks.
ES8 is good choice but you may find the 4 inputs a bit limiting especially if you like processing and effecting drum voices separately in your DAW. For this reason I paired mine with an es-6 so that may be an option later down the road and the combined size is still 4 hp smaller than the es9 albeit with less functionality. I personally thought that was a better option although I also considered Lugia's setup at the time but connecting firewire to tb3 was expensive as I needed 3 dongles in the end that were about £80 if I recall, but if you have the dongles already this would be a great option and I still think some of these older devices still look great in the rack with their LED displays.
8 outputs are more than enough for me on the ES8 for modulation as I only use these when I run out of modulation sources in my rack or from my 2 neutrons
Why do you need your cosmix, Intellijel audio I/O and the fx aid xl as you could effect and mix in Ableton using your es8 inputs.
Jim has good advice. Add in a decent sequencer as well maybe an Arturia Keystep that has CV control. Love Analogue Solutions gear. In fact, I just picked up a new Leipzig v3 and DFAM for my home office to play with in between breaks.
@JimHowell1970 - thanks for all your replies, really appreciate your helping me along with my confusion on all this :)
If I get the ES-8...thats all I need in order to us CV Tools in Ableton Live to send/receive CV? Is it doing that via the USB?
correct
Then for recording stuff coming from my modular/Hydrasynth, I could use the combination of the ciao and a-520 to route audio to my Focusrite?...do i have all of that right?
yes if you can get both interfaces to work simultaneously - do a search on asio4all and working with multiple audio interfaces - I'm not an expert - especially as I use a Mac - where aggregate devices work quite well
If I substitue the Ciao! with the Intellijel Audio Interface II, would that allow me to route audio into the modular setup from my Hydrasynth for any processing and then back out to my Focusrite?
yes potentially - there are many other ways to do this though - personally I'd start with veils and some attenuators
According to their website all Focusrite ¼ inch (6.35mm) jack inputs and outputs are mono balanced.
-- jb61264
In which case a balanced output module sounds like a good idea - most probably aren't balanced - Happy Nerding do a reasonably priced unbalanced to balanced converter module called the isolator - if you find you need it
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
things that are usually good to pair with semis will probably work perfectly
so modulation and utilities are good starting points
Maths, zadar, pams, batumi etc etc etc (they'll mostly be in the categories envelope generator, lfo or function generator)
I'd also usually recommend a utility starter set of links, kinks, shades (or similar functions in different modules) and a quad cascading vca, such as veils (veils specifically because it's more versatile than most, 10hp and reasonably inexpensive) NB kinks is discontinued so if you can find one buy it
after that I'd start thinking about adding an extra voice of some kind - probably a vco, filter and an end of chain mixer, unless you've already got that covered externally
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Hi, another newbie trying to feel my way around modular. I've started with the Treadstone all-in-one synth voice, sequencing from my Novation Mono Station at the moment, looking for something to pair it with for some modulation, or a second VCO to augment the sound, or some way to randomise sequences... Any thoughts much appreciated!
@JimHowell1970 - thanks for all your replies, really appreciate your helping me along with my confusion on all this :)
If I get the ES-8...thats all I need in order to us CV Tools in Ableton Live to send/receive CV? Is it doing that via the USB?
Then for recording stuff coming from my modular/Hydrasynth, I could use the combination of the ciao and a-520 to route audio to my Focusrite?...do i have all of that right?
If I substitue the Ciao! with the Intellijel Audio Interface II, would that allow me to route audio into the modular setup from my Hydrasynth for any processing and then back out to my Focusrite?
According to their website all Focusrite ¼ inch (6.35mm) jack inputs and outputs are mono balanced.
the P6 is much more expensive because of the case fittings (tolex, handle, corner bumpers etc) - and it's a lot more convenient than an lc6 and a flightcase - plus it's less storage space for the lid of the case than for a flightcase
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
as the 8i6 is not DC-couplped then yes you would need something else to use CVTools
USA= unbalanced power - if the 8i6 has balanced inputs (check manual) then the general consensus is to use balanced outputs too - should = better recordings with less noise
re ciao and a-520 would be the i/o modules
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
All golden advice, thanks fellows. And kudos on surviving being Stockhausen's student!
The boss likes the system, but we'll have to split it in two phased orders. In the long run this means more modules, as we can fill two LC6s.
Here's what I came up with
Some of the modules you suggested are tricky to source in the UK (largely thanks to Brexit...), and the budget needs to be spent quite soon. So I went with what's on offer currently. I like the Isolator, but I also read good words on the Befaco output. Unfortunately no Maths or Beads until the autumn, so I added a few bits for s+h.
And yes, you convinced me on portability.
Am I right to thing that the Doepfer P6 is somewhat bad value, considering the LC6 and a made-to-fit flightcase would be cheaper?
Thanks again to both for the advice, incredibly helpful!
I am using Windows PC and it does use ASIO. I specify ASIO driver in Ableton and then Focusrite USB ASIO as the 'audio device' in Ableton. I live in the US (not sure if that means I have balanced power or not though)
So in this rack:
On the right top and bottom would the Ciao! and A-520 4ch(in) line preamp be what you're referring to as input and output?
Would I still need to make room for the ES-8 to use CV Tools with the system then as well?
