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I would like to learn about the signal flow, and then the modulation, effects,... Where could I read more about it? Is there any threads that will help with basic knowledge?

-- baygiooday

JB's advice is on point, if you want to read on it even more, there's plethora of knowledge to be gained in the stickies here: https://modwiggler.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=16

I took a cross-country road trip a few years ago, and the journey was just as fun as the destination. Same thing applies when building your rack. Above all, have fun.

-- farkas

Nailed it. This is excellent advice for a lot of things in life, and of course especially everything art-related !

I just may be an idiot and not able to pick up on stuff as well as others, but that has been my path so far and I'm glad I'm doing it the way I am....somewhat slow and steady...you will be tempted (as I have been)...and you will see a module you want in your rack that someone has for a good price (as I have)...and you will buy it (I've done it twice now with Warps and FX Aid XL)...but try to hold back somewhat and give yourself some room to breath and learn...I haven't even plugged in my FX Aid XL into anything yet because Warps, Maths, and Quadrax have kept me up into the morning hours multiple times and I still am just scratching the surface.
-- jb61264

You come across as being very far from an idiot, don't let anyone tell you that ! You are enjoying your hobby, and you take it at a pace you can handle and enjoy, that's actually a great way to go about it IMHO. And yeah, Maths + Quadrax is also in my rack, and I'm also just scratching the surface after months of having both, I think that's fine as long as... I'm having fun. I would have been completely overwhelmed myself if I had started with these 2 together ;-)
In fact, I think "take it slow" and "enjoy" should be at the very top of modular advice, along with "buy a bigger rack than you think you'll need" and "you will probably need more VCA's and ways to combine/mess with modulation".

Everybody's advice is good to take as long as you remember you need to make it your own idea and not just copy someone else's.

Where could I read more about it? Is there any threads that will help with basic knowledge?

-- baygiooday
Chris Meyer has some great courses available here: https://learningmodular.com/

I took a cross-country road trip a few years ago, and the journey was just as fun as the destination. Same thing applies when building your rack. Above all, have fun.

-- farkas

Love that analogy and applies to what I'm doing with my modular 'journey'.

You already have a lot of good advice from members who have been doing this for a long time (at least I think most of the replies are from those who have been doing it for a long time). I could never give you anywhere near the great advice you'll get from them, only that I am in a similar spot as you in that I'm very new to modular as well.

I can definitely attest to the advice of going slow. I originally bought a Hydrasynth desktop knowing it had some modular capabilities and that I knew I wanted to dip my toes into the modular world. I spent a good 3-4 months learning the Hydrasynth (and am still learning it today) and also reading up on modular, asking questions here and finally putting a rack out on the forum and letting members provide some feedback based on my goals with the system (which are to have a 'hybrid' setup where I can extend the capability of my Hydrasynth and also use CV Tools with Ableton going forward). I got some great feedback and now I'm 'gradually' building out my Rackbrute 6U (I also bought an Arturia Minibrute 2 at the same time as I bought the Hydrasynth). My idea was to use the Minibrute 2/Rackbrute 6U as my foray into modular...and of course the Hydrasynth. I haven't even really touched the Minibrute 2 yet...and that is probably the point of my post...this stuff gets deeeeeeep quick and you will want to spend time learning each of the modules capabilities. To emphasize that point, my first purchase was Maths...that was 6 weeks ago now I think...I'm still going through a tutorial that has like 22 examples of what it can do...many times I have to go back and redo one of them to remember what it did and how it did it...I'm still learning new ways to use it. A couple weeks ago, I got Quadrax and the learning curve just went exponential with not only learning what Quadrax could do on its own but how I can use Quadrax and Maths together with my Hydrasynth to do some crazy stuff. I can't even imagine going out and buying my intended complete rack and trying to learn everything...it would be overwhelming...heck, it is overwhelming as it is...lol.

I just may be an idiot and not able to pick up on stuff as well as others, but that has been my path so far and I'm glad I'm doing it the way I am....somewhat slow and steady...you will be tempted (as I have been)...and you will see a module you want in your rack that someone has for a good price (as I have)...and you will buy it (I've done it twice now with Warps and FX Aid XL)...but try to hold back somewhat and give yourself some room to breath and learn...I haven't even plugged in my FX Aid XL into anything yet because Warps, Maths, and Quadrax have kept me up into the morning hours multiple times and I still am just scratching the surface.

I'll stop rambling now, but just wanted to add a comment from someone who is also new to the game...these guys give great advice...take it...go slow, research, download VCV rack, ask lots of questions, seriously consider what your goal(s) is/are with modular and then ask for advice on what to build. You'll be glad you did...I am.

I think Cre8Audio get a hard time over their stuff…

I fancied playing with modular and with the NiftyBundle I got a case and some OKish modules to start building on for £222

Yes, I'm going to run out of space with only 84hp, and yes I'm going to need to replace Chipz and Cellzs sooner or later but as a place to start it's been great and very cost effective

every time someone comes along with their idea of what's going to make them a SUPAH-STAAHH and I or someone else points out the deficiencies in their line of thinking. And this has been going on for a long time; I can recall an incident back in the pre-browser days on USENET where someone popped up on one of the groups, bellowing about his brand new MORPHEUS, and how this brand new MORPHEUS was going to be THE THING that was gonna take him right to the top!!!

Yeah, right.

Fact is, this argument that a given device will vault you into stardom is a load of crap. It's the inverse corollory to blaming your equipment for your own musical shortcomings. Both notions are equally false. Your musicianship depends on YOU...not a Magic Box or whatever.

Now, yeah, sure...you might BE capable of grabbing the (somewhat cursed) brass ring of getting big in music.
-- Lugia

I have never once seen anyone in this forum (beginner or veteran) suggest the idea that a modular synth is their ticket to the big time. Is that even something that people still want? I'm sure some folks have a dream of becoming an "influencer" or whatever, but I think people are smart enough to realize that an esoteric and prohibitively expensive medium and genre of music is not going to lead to adoring fans and red carpets.
This is an odd assumption about our new member. Why can't we assume that this is a fun hobby for most people? Not everyone has some Nietzschean "suffer-for-my-art-martyr-to-my-LFO" complex haunting them. Some people just want to make a 4/4 beat and dance around their room as an escape from the day job that is undoubtedly funding this hobby.

Jack (and any other new member reading this), have fun with your new hobby. Be aware that it can be very expensive, and you will find yourself scratching your head trying to figure out some tasks that are simple in a hardwired synth/drum machine, and you will likely need to do a lot of research and re-planning to get an instrument that gets you to the sound in your head. Also be aware that you CAN achieve the sound in your head with modular and it's incredibly satisfying. I took a cross-country road trip a few years ago, and the journey was just as fun as the destination. Same thing applies when building your rack. Above all, have fun.

If you would like a bit more guidance, maybe you can share some examples of the type of sounds you are hoping to create, or if you already have any other gear that you can use as a supplement to your rack. That way we can point you in the right direction.
Good luck!

Designing your own system is awesome. But that might be a bit much for someone who doesn't have any hands on experience in modular. No one starts out knowing what they are doing... only assuming that they know.

Make Noise and Roland have some nice preconfigured systems.

The 500 series from Roland is pretty much a classic modular system in Eurorack. You can't go wrong there.
Make Noise has a few contemporary preconfigured systems that incorporate digital modules.

Behringer just came out with their own preconfigured systems as well. I don't think you can go wrong there either. Behringer is notorious, though.

-- Ronin1973

Thank for your advice!
Maybe I will start with those Doepfer modules. After adding a filter,vca, attenuverter, would it be a usable synth voice?
I would like to learn about the signal flow, and then the modulation, effects,... Where could I read more about it? Is there any threads that will help with basic knowledge?

Hi Michael, and Moderator,

What the hack has this to do with modular synthesizers? To me this looks like spam... if not, please explain yourself.

Moderator, if this looks like spam to you as well, can you please remove Michael from this forum?

Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

Hey, Garfield, be patient. It’s a good service.
-- MichaelCrowley

Poor spammers are supporting their spam manually ? LoL, I thought you'd at least have the skills to automate this kind of stuff. Low life for life, apparently

@some_dude: I don't know Timbre & Timbre (it looks & sounds pretty good for your use case though) but I do know the Tritone. I've had it in my rack for a little while and it's absolutely great for either EQ or distortion duties, sounds beautiful and having the ability to chain channels together brings a lot of depth. Happy Nerding FTW !

The idea was to provide a "standard" instrument arrangement (e.g. bass, drums, lead, arp) in a single system, while still allowing for some wierd-sound exploration. And that's really my goal with modular - sound exploration in a non-DAW environment.
-- jtunes_ia

Hello and welcome to MG !
While that sounds like an epic goal (hell, I had the same when I started), I want to offer my personal experience on the matter. Bear in mind, it's only that, advice coming from my personal experience :-)
The fact is that modular is very expensive so as Lower Rhythm very well puts it, you want the use of your hard earned money to be maximized and for the type of electronic music you refer to, any drum machine will maximize $$$ way better than any drum module. I tried - and sorta failed - to go down the road of complete groovebox when I started my journey, and eventually bought back a small MPC for the drum duties because I realized that what I was doing with drum modules was a subset of what I can do with an MPC/Digitakt/Deluge (I had extensive prior experience with that sort of groovebox device before), and that if I wanted to justify having modular drums, it would 1. require a lot more supporting modules (modulation sources, submixers, etc) which cost $$$ and 2. perhaps more importantly, require a lot of attention/time to actually handle the complexity of modular drums.
If you buy a 2nd hand drum machine, you can test drive that setup for at least a few months and not loose any cash if you decide to resell the drum machine. Same goes for most 2nd hand modules BTW, what a nice way to try things out (but the selling/buying can take some time and patience). You can then plan a very small modular setup to start getting your hands dirty (but please consider VCV first, a lot of learning there if you're ok with using computers for music), if you're inventive you could most likely use it to synthetize most of your synth sounds and even produce drum-ish sounds for your sample-based drum machine. I can almost guarantee that Digitakt/MPC+ a small well-thought-of 104HP modular can get you pretty far already, and most importantly as Wishbone Brewery said it, it will be fun for a long while.
Hope this helps ;)
D.

I think you could use this to make music, but you'd probably spend an extra 2000 on selling and switching out modules until you arrived at something you actually find usable.

You'll end up doing a lot of that anyway, but buying everything upfront is a surefire way to maximise waste.

If you're dead set on modular I'd take the VCV advice. If you haven't made electronic music before, trying using Reason or something else to find your feet and discover the joy of patching. Eurorack strikes me as a pretty treacherous place to start, unless you've got a focused vision and load of money lying around.

Also you don't need a dedicated module to do ducking, you can do this with vcas or Optomix. Part of the enjoyment for me is finding ways to make the most of simple components.

Fact is, we aren't gatekeeping people out of modular here...but we ARE trying to gatekeep people from making some really awful decisions and winding up with a generally-unplayable instrument.
-- Lugia

Here we go, this feels like starting an argument ;-)

I realise you always put the time in to write a heck of a lot, I read your first response and those of others and I just think, "way to go, disheartening another person who is interested in modular", then the response from the post originator was clearly disheartened.

I'm not a fan of this, I dare say some of the words written to me on my first post on this forum made me think WTF and Who the F***! Hardly the hi and welcome to the forum, be careful what you spend, DON'T DO MODULAR!

I feel there are more beneficial manners of helping, Blunt Critique is your best mate telling you that that thing you built is sh!t, you laugh and buy them another Pint, not a person they have never met on a forum they have just joined because of an interest in making music / sound or simply something for pure enjoyment.

So in general, I do feel there is a lot of helpful words within the responses on this forum but folks need to chill a bit.

And I'm totally fine with it if you don't think I should be pointing this out ;-)

My main driver is FUN and I'm here for the journey, and so far a Price: €6.226 Journey.

Cats are an important part :)

There's a difference between being blunt and belligerent, especially when the bluntness is being delivered along some very thin lines of opinion and some off the wall assumption. Good grief. I do not miss those personality types from my days as an engineer.

VCV rack is a good choice for starting off in modular because it's A. Free-ish, and B. Nothing ever works or interacts quite the way you're going to guess that it will. This is why people also say to start small. It's also a good idea to consider starting with some basic building blocks, because it will really help your ability to understand what's going on under the hood to have experience creating some more complex functions from those simple parts. A lot of people I know go out and buy specialized modules every time they have a problem they want to solve, rather than figuring out how to solve it with what's in front of them. Labels and panels lie! All modules do the same thing, move electricity, just in different ways. It's essential to prioritize this kind of knowledge. Down the road it will blow your mind the kinds of unexpected things you can do off-label.

I think the system you designed is primarily weak on utilities, which is not an uncommon sight. That shit may seem boring at first, but it won't later. Attenuation, inversion, offsets, CV / audio mixers, etc. are crazy powerful tools. Utilities are the bread and butter of modular. Having a goal in mind is great because it means you're in problem solving mode. Ducking important? Cool, you found a solution. When you start piecing this thing together, just remain fluid about what goes in and out of the case. Expect to buy and sell. Thankfully eurorack gear holds a lot of its value on the used market. And lord, who gives a rat's ass what you're doing in 2040? Hell, you could be dead. You don't need to reinvent the wheel, just dig in and see where it goes. Certain kinds of gear are theoretically better for certain applications, but the beauty of modular is just that -- its modular. You can tweak all sorts of modular gear to do all sorts of different kinds of things. Both you as a musician, and your machine as your toolbox, are going to change and evolve. You can't really predict where that might go, so sweating something like that is likely going to be counterproductive.

I'd consider a couple of things with where you're at:

1. How you want to pit HP against performance, and even ethics. Case in point, the MI modules. There are much smaller third party versions. Cramped as hell though, and you might not be okay with those purchases depending on how you feel about the way the open source is being used.

2. Lean more towards your melodic / drone elements, or more towards your percussion at first. There's nothing that says a system can't be a hodgepodge that does it all amorphously, but it looks to me like you want some dedicated gear. If I had X dollars, I'd try to use it to maximize what I can do in just one of those areas at a time, to make it easier to design and explore.

3. Spend more up front on a larger case, unless you're buying into a case system that's expandable (such as the Mantis stuff, which are easily joined). What it looks like you want to do is going to take more space than you're giving yourself sooner or later. It'll save you money in the long run vs. ending up like a lot of people juggling ten small cases.

4. It might be more helpful to start another thread, only from the angle of "Here are the modules I'm interested in, here is what I want to do... what's the most minimal version of this I can make to get started?" I also recommend doing so over on Modwiggler, because this place seems more prone to unhelpful narratives.

5. Don't overthink it. :) ...talking about gear is super fun, but dialog and actuality are very different. Just pull a few triggers and see what happens.

Hope some of that helps! Good luck on your journey.

@lugia I'm sorry. I misunderstood you and I overreacted. Let me try again.

I did misstate my goals for the system. The idea was to provide a "standard" instrument arrangement (e.g. bass, drums, lead, arp) in a single system, while still allowing for some wierd-sound exploration. And that's really my goal with modular - sound exploration in a non-DAW environment.

When I said "EDM", I was only referring to the ducking clichė. I now see that I don't know what the heck I'm talking about, and that I need to stop using that term. I'm sorry I confused you.

By the way, I don't really want to "get big" in music, and I never expected modular to get me there. I just like making/sharing music, and I think modular will help me have fun doing it.

Thanks for suggesting VCVRack. I'll try that first.

All the best,
Jack

EDITED Jul 15th 2021, 03:07

I mean, I don’t exactly disagree with either of you as far as other companies that make great modules. I’m just not exactly ready to write off cre8audio as a manufacturer because their very first 2 modules to hit production were not $300 quality at a $99 pricepoint. Especially since their entire point was to get people “up and running” immediately in a compact, cost-effective package. I doubt longevity is on anyone’s mind who purchases them. It certainly wasn’t an expectation of mine when I first got them. I didn’t expect them to even last this long.

Just seems like an odd take to me. Especially going as far as to speak to the future readers of this thread and steer them away from a module before literally any evidence of their quality is understood, in either direction.

Dreadbox is a great company. My first (and only, now sold) semi-modular was an NYX and it was great.

Noise Reap also. I had the swiss army mixer in my niftycase within a few weeks of getting the Nifty.

I just genuinely don’t understand why you would condemn a product or it’s producer so strongly without any concept as to the actual module in question and whether it represents an improvement in quality, no change, or a degredation. All of which are quite possible, surely.

My take on this is that if you want both "cheap" and "reliable" modules that have a good rep, you might want to have a look at Noise Reap's stuff. Ugly and functional appearance, but VERY interesting sonic capabilities. The Paradox, for example, is pretty nuts for only $120...it's pretty close to West Coast complex oscillator turf and other things that'll cost dearly, with crossmod FM and VCO self-modulation.

Yeah, that's spam alright. Looks like it's time for the MG crew to fire up the filtering...

As for the original question, though...have you thought about something like this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/nonlinearcircuits-timbre-timbre That there is a pair of independent Buchla-style wavefolders, each with its own I/O and CV input. You could go with an EQ or some such, but something like these gives you a lot more latitude in terms of sound alteration/mangling...just a touch for a little ear candy, or go nutz to get something that would've scared Genesis P-Orridge! Even better, if you've got a stereo delay of some sort in there, you can feed some modulation signals to this module, then send the audio results on to the delay and have each repeat have a different timbral color! EQs and such are easy enough, but if you're in an environment where something of this sort can run and play, this seems like the way to go.

And Mr. Annoying here makes three! So, yeah...remove that Neutron!

Also, Jim makes a good point...the cab's way too small. When beginning a build here, always start with a case that you know is too big...because the reality of the situation is that the "too big" case is usually just the right size! Oh, and you're NOT trapped in an Intellijel case, either...you might want a peek here: https://reverb.com/brand/case-from-lake Case From Lake over in Italia, dahling can do alterations to their stock versions seen at that link, and those include tile rows in EITHER format...so you could do an Intellijel format one AND a "standard" one if you felt the need. Stonkin' power specs from 'em, too...they know what they're doing.

My take on this: if you have a problem with critique, maybe you should pick a different line of work. Amusingly, though, this seems to happen every time someone comes along with their idea of what's going to make them a SUPAH-STAAHH and I or someone else points out the deficiencies in their line of thinking. And this has been going on for a long time; I can recall an incident back in the pre-browser days on USENET where someone popped up on one of the groups, bellowing about his brand new MORPHEUS, and how this brand new MORPHEUS was going to be THE THING that was gonna take him right to the top!!!

Yeah, right.

Fact is, this argument that a given device will vault you into stardom is a load of crap. It's the inverse corollory to blaming your equipment for your own musical shortcomings. Both notions are equally false. Your musicianship depends on YOU...not a Magic Box or whatever.

Now, yeah, sure...you might BE capable of grabbing the (somewhat cursed) brass ring of getting big in music. But when you start confusing your efforts with your purchases, you're operating in a pretty screwed-up area. And the thing that it leads to (and which I and others have seen repeatedly on MG and loads of other places) is a sense of hubris that causes one to incinerate their lines of credit because they've managed to convince themselves of this sort of nonsense. And, also invariably, when they get THAT CONVINCED, any sort of query turns (in their minds) into some sort of ATTACK!@!!!!!!!$$$!1111

Very dumb. Go back and reread my post. Yeah, it's blunt; I wouldn't have survived the music industry as long as I have without being blunt. But notice the actual INFO there...what WILL you do if styles change? Is this system capable of open-ended sorts of work, or have you built a very expensive MC-303? HAVE you actually worked with any sort of modular equipment, virtual or otherwise? And of course, the meat at the heart of the post was ignored...which was this:

"A much smarter move would be to try and NOT fit the system to the music. Really, it should be the other way around."

No lie. Consider: the VERY-copied and now-goes-for-several-grand TB-303 was introduced in Roland's pre-MIDI days as an automated bass line (which is why it says that on there) for acts like bar bands, people doing demos, etc. It tanked. It was, at the time, the music instrument equivalent of the Atari 2600 "E.T." game. And it took several years for Larry Heard to pop into a Chicago pawn shop or used music gear joint, find one, and then MISUSE it for a little ditty called "Washing Machine". And what happens on that track and ALL of the subsequent acid house tracks in its wake is NOT how you're supposed to use a TB-303. But when you talk to a lot of these acid producers, they invariably say that what they do with the 303 is what seemed to them to be what fit with how the TB-303 worked. This is also why it took many years after acid blew up for Roland to warm up to reissuing AN (albeit not THE) TB-303 in some manner, because they thought people were using their synth "wrong" and still thought it was an abject failure...despite the clear and obvious evidence that they could've fired up a production line for them right then and there in the middle of the 1990s, charged several times what the original list of the TB-303 was for the same, already-developed device, and made out like bandits. What finally DID get them to revisit it, though, was all of the small companies making bank on their attempts to clone this thing.

But getting back to that point: if you've not done the research, not had the experience, and are operating on snap decisions, you're going to get severely burned. And I'm not talking about the synth here, but the music itself. Do you actually know what EDM producers use? Is this effort of yours based in any of their useful experiences? Do you often take a pile of money out in the yard and set it on fire? That last one is pretty much what happens if you ignore the two previous questions.

I would suggest getting over your severe butthurt and then actually discussing what you're trying to do, what the aims are, and so on. Fact is, we aren't gatekeeping people out of modular here...but we ARE trying to gatekeep people from making some really awful decisions and winding up with a generally-unplayable instrument. But if you can't handle blunt but well-meaning advice, well...

if someone is looking for a low-cost entryway into modular that doesn't involve the controversial and ethical trappings of Behringer's low-cost alternatives.

At least with Behringer, you are still getting the know how of Moog, Roland, Intellijel and Mutable Instruments in the modules they are putting out. Controversy and ethics aside that's still a better shout than putting your lot in with Cre8audio and a guy who is obviously not making enough money from his own brand. More fool him.

I am ok with big brands like Behringer, I buy through Amazon UK. If the module stops working, I simply raise the issue with Amazon and I have no hassle returns within the 12 month guarantee period.

Also the Doepfer oscillators and filters and better in terms of quality than Cre8audio stuff and as I mentioned before, if you want to go down a cheaper multifunctional route then Dreadbox chromatic modules are excellent. I get that some people don't like big bad Behringer but there are many other low cost alternatives out there. Ladik, takaab etc

If any newbies are reading this, my guess is one day you will want to sell your cre8audio modules and I can tell you right now your resale value will be at best half price. The brands I have mentioned above will resell quickly on the second hand market and generally do ok in terms of holding their value.

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

He, he, an interesting experimental jam! :-) I like the way you are going around 16:00 with that sequence and those kind of sample-voices on the background as well. Intriguing stuff you made here!

Yes, that's fun isn't it? Modulating the modulators/modulation? :-) I love to do that too.

He, he, and it is nice to see your cat again around 21:40+ :-) Was it trying to modulate even a bit more than you wanted? ;-) At about 26:10 it tries to change a few patch cables with its tail ;-) Nice finish of the track at the end, by the way.

Thanks a lot for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Balstergeist,

He, he, this short jam is nice too! One really can do weird things with that Board Chirper and tons of fun! :-D

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Michael, and Moderator,

What the hack has this to do with modular synthesizers? To me this looks like spam... if not, please explain yourself.

Moderator, if this looks like spam to you as well, can you please remove Michael from this forum?

Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Mowse,

Okay that explains why we haven't heard from you, the good weather ;-) So looks like you got less good weather now then ;-)

At least it results in a nice track. I love that moment around 0:37 when that sequence kicks in, nice!

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

noob mistake - too small case

oh and take the neutron out - it has it's own case!

EDITED Jul 14th 2021, 21:41

This was mainly.... MakeNoise STO via DannySound Timbre into MakeNoise Mimeophon with a shed load of modulation and modulating the modulation..... then some more acid techno like bits.

I'm just going to let this play out for a while cos its weird.

Why don't you take the Neutron out of the Case to make Room for more Modules?

Dear gods, I see why they call this Eurocrack. Out of room already! Where's my Fixed Filter Bank?!

I'm with Wishbone. Keep researching and have fun experimenting. Most of the folks on this forum just don't want to see anyone waste a bunch of money and time to arrive at an unsatisfying outcome.
You can most definitely make an EDM focused system as Ronin highlighted. I don't think you have quite nailed it with this initial iteration though. Your best bet though is to start small with just a few modules, and let your needs dictate the future direction of your rack. It's fun to build these proposed dream racks, but it would be a terrible idea to sink a bunch of money into the whole thing without test driving a few of the parts first. I've mentioned in this forum many times that my first rack plan was almost completely different from my current rack. I bought a few modules to start with and just kept experimenting until I couldn't do what I wanted, and then researched the modules that would help me take that next step. Then I bought the next few modules, and so on. Repeat, repeat, repeat.
Have fun with your idea, but be prepared to go back to the planning stages often.

and I'd rather have to swallow my pride and question my own ethics rather than having a smoking hole in a rig and a related smoking hole in my wallet.

@Lugia

These modules are a collaboration with Pittsburgh Modular. I watched Richard Nicol's demo of these modules last night, and I was extremely impressed. For $99, this filter does a lot. And I doubt Richard would put his company's name on the line without extensive testing.

I understand that their initial roll-out of the Chips and Cellz has given plenty of reasons to be skeptical, but I have had both of them in my modular for over a year now and they still work as expected to this day. I don't have any need for the new Cr8/Pittsburgh modules, but I wouldn't dissuade anyone from buying them, especially if someone is looking for a low-cost entryway into modular that doesn't involve the controversial and ethical trappings of Behringer's low-cost alternatives.

EDITED Jul 14th 2021, 17:05

Thanks Garfield!

Here's a much shorter one.

yes, they send him the modules for free and then he reviews them. I think these people are called 'influencers'. I recall they did the same with the nifty case and modules and after reviewing them he spray painted over their logo and kept the case.

But don't let that put your off experimenting ;-)

I'm pretty sure I attacked starting modular from an "unpopular" angle, that has not stopped me having a load of fun in the process.
Now I find myself at the point where my Modular Rack is more about swapping one module out for another, sure I have a wish list of modules, but its relatively cash neutral at the moment as I sell things I find I don't need.

VCV confused the hell out of me to be honest, I found the hands on experimentation of having real modules in front of me to be more educational and fun! Its got to be fun!

It helps to have an idea what you want your rack to be from the start but these things evolve as you go, just start simple and small, I got a lot of mileage out of 10-12 (relatively cheap) modules in a Tiptop Happy Ending Kit case.

The weather has been so nice that I haven’t sat in front of the monster in almost two weeks. Anyhow, added XAOC Moskwa II for additional creative sequencing. Some muscle memory to develop with this one but also immediately fun.

Thanks for the replies, and for clearing up my mistaken view of modular. I apologize for wasting your time.
Can I close this thread now?
Cheers,
Jack

Sure it does. If it didn't, you wouldn't see the image that tells that the clip was blocked by the owner.

Precisely the sort of thing I was thinking of, Ronin...not a massive change to the site's scripting that would allow you whatever cab you wanted for your build. I think we can stick with the current case layout models for the Grid itself. This would be more of a "gallery" of cabs with full (authoritative!) specs, with space available probably being the best ranking criteria. That way, you could just use the navigation buttons in the existing scripting like we do with modules...you just wouldn't have the ability to pop one up onscreen to build in.

Right now, I see three primary criteria on the case listings:

1) Form factor. Is this a case? A rack housing? If it's a case, is it portable? Does it offer a lid for transport? Does it fold for transportation?
2) Power. Is the case powered? If so, does it use flying busses or fixed busboards? Is the AC supply internal or external. How much current is available? Is the power in "zones" (think Arturia here) or overall?
3) Dimensions. How deep can the modules be? How wide are the rows? What's the total available hp? What external physical dimensions does a case have? If it folds, how big is it for transport?

As far as materials, special latching (like ATA-compliant hardware) and so on...those can be in the case descriptions. Sticking with the above criteria for sorting and sifting through seems to me to be key here.

And also, if you object to Behringer, that's why the FORUMS exist. Don't screw with the database.

I'm not "into" modular (yet), but I have been researching and experimenting here on ModularGrid with rack designs, including this one that I'm calling the "EDMachine".
Jack
-- jtunes_ia

Ummmm...no.

Here's a better idea: if you don't have a copy of VCV Rack on your machine, get one. It's free: https://vcvrack.com/ Next, replicate the above cab as best as possible (there ARE some 1:1 virtual versions of these modules, fyi) in VCV. Then try using it.

So, about the point where you're going to be either very puzzled or very riled up about an hour into this...that's the point where you start realizing that this thing has some SERIOUS flaws. For example, you have no attenuators or submixers in this. That'll be fun.

Here's the real problem: you're trying to work out a build based SOLELY on the descriptions on MG. This is one of those "doomed to failure" sort of exercises. Without some practical, working knowledge of why certain things MUST be in a build, which sort of layouts will work as far as signal flow vs ergonomics, and so on, you're sort of out in a creek without a paddle. Hence the copy of VCV Rack. Trying to do this sort of thing with NO practical knowledge is a sure-fire way to incinerate your Magic Plastic on a box that costs a pile but which winds up in a closet. And speaking of that factor...

Have you considered what to do if EDM tanks? It, like everything else in music, is subject to the whims and vagaries of an easily-amused audience. If someone finds a way to amuse them in a cheaper, more practical way, that's where they'll flock to because the industry likes "cheaper". Audiences are, in general, a fairly fickle "low interest" group...you'll only find a small percentage of "true believers" among them, ever, and the rest tends to be attracted by ANY source of lights, noises, and thrashing around. So, given that, IS it really practical to spend several grand on a system that's purely focused on a musical style? Given the piles of Roland MC-303s found in pawnshops (when they'd still take 'em!) not long after the rave scene tanked in the late 1990s, I would say that, no, it's not.

A much smarter move would be to try and NOT fit the system to the music. Really, it should be the other way around. Create a suitably open-ended build that you feel confident that you'll be using sometime around 2040, and that will FIT ANY music that comes along between now and then. And no, there's no exaggeration there; system adaptability is why people will STILL slit your throat in some circles over a minty-fresh vintage ARP 2600. It's a synth that was designed c. 1970, but designed RIGHT so that it's just as valid fifty years on. And I've seen ARP 2600s in use in everything from classic 70s funk (Stevie Wonder's "Superstition", with the help of Margouleff and Cecil) to classical (even I did that...we needed a foghorn for a production of Puccini's "Suor Angelica" during my undergrad, and I was happy to oblige...and it sounded PERFECT). THAT sort of build is what you should be aiming toward...not something with a stylistic expiration date.

After all, it's not the machine that makes the music. You do. You define what it does...not the other way around.

Expect more of this, btw...I saw some scuttlebutt on YT about a new oscillator from these guys.

Frankly, I'm 100% down...if you said I could have a free VCO, and you offered me a choice between one of their new ones and a Behringer Brains, I'd take the Behringer. At least Uli's stuff tends to be somewhat (to very, actually) reliable; Cre8's modules aren't winning them any big fans in that aspect, and I'd rather have to swallow my pride and question my own ethics rather than having a smoking hole in a rig and a related smoking hole in my wallet.

EDITED Jul 14th 2021, 02:19

Does this feature even work?

So my thoughts would be:
1. Powered cases
2. Unpowered cases
3. Power supplies

I don't think it would be worth it to have cases available for building a virtual rack. It falls into the "would be nice" column.
But having the information available to peruse would be awesome. I would include a main picture of the case. Then I'd allow users to upload their own custom pictures of the case (with or without modules) to add to the description.

The description should also include the number of rows, the HP of each row, and the size of the row (3U or 1U) and the format of the row (useful for 1U set-ups since 1U isn't standardized).

Behringer has no manufacturer account on MG and it does not feel right to set a manufacturer lock on behalf of their name.
That is currently the only way to lock the entry. If the edits do not stop very soon we will implement a technical solution.
-- modulargrid

I hope the user accounts that are changing information are being logged. If someone has a habit of nefariously editing information that the account gets locked-out of creating or editing module information.

I have to agree with Arjan. Illiac is being childish. If you don't like it... if you don't support it... don't buy it.

Thank you for all your honest opinions. Im just looking on a good deal on a Doepfer system with some basic modules, so I want to plan a system on this forum to get ideas and vision for the long way. I will also have to learn more about utilities and vcas. I will have to build up this system slowly, and maybe ideas will changes over time. Im just glad to plan a system on here, reading modules, and interacting with this nice community. Thank you so much!
-- baygiooday

Designing your own system is awesome. But that might be a bit much for someone who doesn't have any hands on experience in modular. No one starts out knowing what they are doing... only assuming that they know.

Make Noise and Roland have some nice preconfigured systems.

The 500 series from Roland is pretty much a classic modular system in Eurorack. You can't go wrong there.
Make Noise has a few contemporary preconfigured systems that incorporate digital modules.

Behringer just came out with their own preconfigured systems as well. I don't think you can go wrong there either. Behringer is notorious, though.

What exactly are you trying to do? You said this rack is focused on EDM. Do you mean a complete EDM track will be generated in this rack? By rhythmic focused... do you just mean EDM percussion with maybe bass?

Here's Erica Synth's idea of an EDM percussion rack. I think this definitely defines what is needed.
https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/eurorack-systems/techno-system/

Let's flip this the other way. Do you care to explain why you chose the modules you picked out? Also why do you define Marbles and Ochd as generative?

No problem - good luck!

Thank you for considering that @JimHowell1970,

I could track back the issues to be somewhere between the cue channel and the headphone jack. When putting everything together one of the hexnuts on the Stereo got stuck and wreaked havoc on the miniswitch and PCB. I'll have some big cleanup to do now first.

would recommend dreadbox chromatic over these. Cre8audio modules tend to be cheap quality and are the only modules that I ever had that stopped functioning. Cre8audio tried to blame the 5v rail on my tip top bus board which has been rock solid for everything else even other modules that use 5v.

Hey folks!

I'm not "into" modular (yet), but I have been researching and experimenting here on ModularGrid with rack designs, including this one that I'm calling the "EDMachine".

It's a portable, highly rhythmic rack focused on EDM (note the Cockpit2 with the all-important ducker), with a few generative elements (Marbles and ochd).

Is there anything I could do to improve this design? Any feedback is welcome!

Thanks,
Jack

EDITED Jul 13th 2021, 10:45