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I suspected as much. I would be concerned with feeding too high a voltage to some other module after mixing two or three +5V gates into one +10V 0r even +15V signal.

Hi Andrés,

Ha, ha, that's a nice and funny track :-) Since you got that working nicely, why would you like to do this with modular? Sounds good to me already how it is now! Going modular is very expensive and this sounds already so good, not sure if with less money for modular you are getting this any better than what you have now already?

Up to you of course but perhaps you should reconsider going modular? Of course I don't want to talk you away from modular but please believe me, modular is going to cost a fortune, even if you plan to spend for the moment not much... I do speak here from experience, so can many other members here.

Anyway, either way you go, I wish you good luck with your nice, funny and experimental music and kind regards, Garfield.

If I were buying Eurorack right now and needed cost- and space-efficient EGs, I'd go right to the Ladik listings. Not only do they offer both AD/AR and ADSR gens, some of their ADSRs offer envelope delays, initial envelope levels, variable holds, and so on that you don't tend to see elsewhere in Eurorack...or, at least not for Ladik's prices.

No. Diode or Boolean ORs are actually rather different from a basic mixer. With an OR gate (of either type) the module reads the incoming gate signals and combines AND regenerates a resulting +5V gate. In a diode OR, this regeneration doesn't happen, but the functionality is still the same: combine gates to get a "composite" gate. This is different from a unity-gain mixer, where incoming signals are simply mixed together...this won't arrive at that "composite" gate result.

Another module this all gets confused with would be adders. In their case, you input various CVs, and the output is the arithmetical sum of the incoming voltages. These won't work to combine gates AT ALL...what you'll actually get when two gates coincide are the +5V amounts when the gates aren't coincidental, and +10V when they are. However, you CAN still arrive at a single gate by feeding the adder to a comparator and setting its threshold to, say, +6V so that whenever that level is exceeded, the comparator will fire off a gate. But it won't be a true "composite" gate; rather, this patch would only fire a gate off during those coincidental points...which can ALSO be useful, but it's not what an OR does.

Hi Eexee,

That's strange that Doepfer ADSRs give you "clicks". One hint that might help is that the potentiometers should never be exactly zero for (Doepfer) ADSRs, well, of course you can do it, but perhaps that's why there are "clicks"? Just stay a little bit (really not much just a bit) away from the zero and you shouldn't face any "clicks".

I hope that helps and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

Hmm. Paired with the Doepfer Quad VCA I have, I often have to dial the attack up to almost 5-6 to eliminate clicks on some things the Soundforce will handle more easily. Maybe it’s a linear vs exponential thing? Though the SF has both modes and they both seem better at eliminating clicks than the Doepfer does. I wonder if there’s something else I’m doing wrong…

EDITED Aug 9th 2021, 23:55

Hi Eexee,

That's strange that Doepfer ADSRs give you "clicks". One hint that might help is that the potentiometers should never be exactly zero for (Doepfer) ADSRs, well, of course you can do it, but perhaps that's why there are "clicks"? Just stay a little bit (really not much just a bit) away from the zero and you shouldn't face any "clicks".

I hope that helps and kind regards, Garfield.

No, no, Intellijel still makes their OR logic module, it just takes ordering directly from Intellijel's site. I'm still curious if a unity mixer would work however.

If you have any specific suggestions on the flangers and phasers modules, those will be very much welcome :)

-- abstractrhythms

One I've found intriguing as of late is Frequency Central's Stasis Leak. In 6 hp, you get a stereo chorus, tap tempo delay, and reverb. Plus, since the module takes a mono input and "stereoizes" that, you get that extra perk along with the FX. Plus, Happy Nerding's multieffects modules, the FX Aid (4 hp) and FX Aid XL (6 hp) are big wins if you need a larger variety of FX algorithms. Potent...AND space-efficient.

Can I use a Unity mixer to act as an OR logic module for gates? Will I fry modules if I have too many gate signals going at the same time? Alternatively, are there any highly dense OR logic modules available (Intillijel made one, but I think they don't anymore)?

I’ve been eyeing the Sir Mix a Lot specifically actually. Curious about the controversy. My first impressions of modular getting into it were that everything was unicorns and awesomeness as far as the companies went. But aside from Behringer, I’ve seen pretty harsh things posted about Synthrotek and Tiptop and that some hobbyists won’t carry/support those brands. Blue Lantern too?
-- eexee

There's almost always some negativity around specific makers. I just wanted to post it in a neutral way. Me personally... I've not had an issue. But I'm not the fan-boy. The bit of kit I have works.

I'm a huge fan of the Soundforce ADSR. I've found an exp adsr is really necessary to get the "pluck" out of my LPGs and VCAs/Filters. Also having control over all stages with attenuation is so great. Plus it has the ability to choose end of cycle gate, has cycling, and s/m/l stage length. It's big but it's worth it.
-- KMAbrams

I picked one of these up recently. It does a better job of removing unwanted “clicks” in the trigger/attack than my Doepfer ADSR by far, and I generally like it better than my Doepfer one. Modular ADSRs still feel really weird to me, though, coming from digital…. they never seem to perform as well or in the way I expect. But I think the Soundforce is likely going to be a keeper. I just wish it was smaller, like you you say.. it’s a lot of HP for what it does.

Interesting @klodifokan I’ll have to check and see if any of my modules have that option. I’ve got some power to spare for the moment but if I can unburden the 12v rail at all that’ll be helpful long term.

Thanks for the info @JimHowell1970

I’ve been eyeing the Sir Mix a Lot specifically actually. Curious about the controversy. My first impressions of modular getting into it were that everything was unicorns and awesomeness as far as the companies went. But aside from Behringer, I’ve seen pretty harsh things posted about Synthrotek and Tiptop and that some hobbyists won’t carry/support those brands. Blue Lantern too?

@modulargrid the use case for me is that I version racks a lot, including saving their state at different points in time or different future trajectories, and would love the ability to keep all that around for future reference. I like the cert idea though :p

Re: bandcamp I seem to be the main user around here but I would love to see that working 🙇

Feature request: add the ability to archive racks for when you're tired of looking at them but don't want to delete them!
-- troux

That seems to be a bit special interest for me but when @GarfieldModular and @Lugia support that too I wonder what the usecase is? If it is about the limit of possible racks it might be better and easier to increase that instead?

a better idea might be some sort of DLable format that can be read (but obviously NOT manipulated) offline by users.
-- Lugia

A ModularGrid rack exchange format with a signed certificate. That sounds even more nerdy!

Second feature request for the day: Bandcamp embeds!
-- troux

~~We have that now as an experimental feature until the bots figure out how to embed spam and porn iframes or the pages are all broken due to incorrect/non closing tags. Use the HTML iframe code in Bandcamps share options.~~

Edit: I have revoked the Bandcamp embed feature for now, it lead to some problems I did not think of. It might come back soon.

EDITED Aug 9th 2021, 17:33

I own the Blue Lantern Stereo Sir Mix-A-Lot and their Logic Module. I've not had any issues and the price for the Mix-A-Lot is quite good for the set of features.

There was a bit of controversy regarding the brand around 2010-2013. Some Googling will bring up message board posts elsewhere.

If you're looking for classic 4-Op FM I can't recommend the Akemie's Castle enough. Just a beautiful module with some great FM sounds.

Thanks for listening @GarfieldModular. I liked wednesday acid a lot too but the mimeophon parts on galaktoboureko are pretty sweet I think. It's hard to pick a favorite!

If you are on a budget (Detroit Style), you can look at the Dreadbox Antidote for Flanging and at the Dreadbox Euphoria for Phasing.
And Dreadbox starts with a "D", so two times a Dreadbox must be good for Detroit Drexcyia Analogue Electro ;)

Hi m01c,

thanks a lot for your suggestions.

Those are indeed very good advices, i was not aware of the feedback modules chorus 106 which looks very interesting.

If you have any specific suggestions on the flangers and phasers modules, those will be very much welcome :)

thanks a lot
ciao

MI Elements (Omnious Mode) for FM or if you are looking for the gritty DX sound, an ALM Akemie`s. Personally I would choose the Taiko instead of the Castle.

Juno. Feedback Modules Chorus 106. Patched right behind an Atlantis.

To make chords, get a decent pitchshifter. For instance a Z-DSP with Time Fabric card.

And last but not least a sample (player) that is able to layer sounds. Load it with strings, choirs (and other "rompler" sounds) layer them and run them through a filter.

Flangers Phasers are also an important part of the sound.

Hi,
On some actual module you can choose 5v converted from 12v or using 5v from power bus, with a jumper at the back of the module.
If you use 5v from power bus it lowers 12v consumption.
And some like Klavis Quadigy doesn't run without 5v.

EDITED Aug 9th 2021, 12:25

Hey! Glad you like it. I guess you mean the fillers I use. All drums comes from Plonk, I use the V/oct to change the sound drum with a programed track into hermod, but it's passed thru a switch (tain) and this is patched on triplatt, which allows me switch manually between the programmed track, and the voltage sent with triplatt. So I tweak knobs and push buttoms to make fillers with the drum line in live, it's so funny :).

Hey! Thanks @garfieldmodular and @tumeniknobs for listen and give a feedback :)

Nice @gumbo23....do you mind sharing your rack? was wondering what the one in the upper right was in particular
-- jb61264

Sure. Farkas is bang on! I love that filter, and Batumi is rightly one of the most successful LFOs ever made. Cross-modulating itself is really fun.

there was a period when a lot of digital modules took power from the 5v, but the trend now is to convert +12v to whatever is needed by the mcu (usually 5v or 3.3v)

these modules were often quite power hungry too

most modules use comparatively little -12v (except video, argh)

if your psu has a lot of spare 5v and you have some space in the rack you could consider a usb power module (there are a few available) and charge your phone, power a led lamp etc

Is this ever used for anything? I started into modular about 5-6 months back, have filled up the better part of a 9U 104 HP rack, and have yet to purchase or encounter anything that utilizes the 5v rail in any way. Am I missing something? Can someone explain its purpose or why many PSUs seem to dedicate even more power to the 5v rail than the seemingly much more important -12v rail? A bit confused about this obviously.

Hi,
This one could be interesting :
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/blue-lantern-modules-grids-mk2-2021

Cheers

I suggest checking out the Electro-Smith Daisy Patch module:

https://www.electro-smith.com/daisy/patch

"Custom firmware files can be created using Pure Data, Arduino, Max/MSP ~gen, or C++."

Could be perfect for algorithmic music generation on modular. I haven't tried it yet though - have one coming but it seems like it's caught in an endless loop in the Oz postal system after riding over from the US on the back of a sea turtle (not Electro-Smith's fault).

EDITED Aug 11th 2021, 09:53

Hello,
Since de Mutable intruments (grids) is discontinued.
What is the best alternative?
Thanks

Thanks guys! I'm still chewing on what options are best for me and available. Looks like ES3/5/6 are my preferred options presently as they could route into my existing interface options and by physically pretty easy to manage (vs. lots of re-patching in hidden corners of the studio). Yes making a more "networked" studio to bounce audio & CV around my various devices (like jb61264 going into Hydrasynth) would be great; makes me wonder how much I/O I will actually need!

I'll take a moment to bake into the thread some other helpful resources I've found on this question (in case anyone else refers back to this thread for info).
-- Sweetwater's list of DC-coupled interfaces: https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/which-audio-interfaces-are-dc-coupled/ ... lots of options including the MOTU devices mentioned above
-- Expert Sleeper's list of interface modules and expanders: https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/moduleoverview.html
-- other options (mentioned above and consolidated here): Ornament & Crime, ADDAC 222/221, Befaco VCMC & CV Thing. Many basic "gate to MIDI" options from Doepfer, Ladik, VPME
-- Loopop on Midi to CV and back:
-- Divkid on Midi to CV and back:

EDITED Aug 9th 2021, 04:52

Thanks for your reply @Lugia

First thing I would suggest: remove the ES-8 and go with an outboard interface. Any DC-coupled audio interface works, and I and a couple of others here use the "obsolete" MOTU 828mkii as that.
-- Lugia

I was thinking the same, I have an RME-Fireface UCX II but I thought that the ES-8 would let me record and manipulate at least 8 channels separately instead of the stereo output of the rack.

If this is supposed to interface with a Max patch, it's awfully limited. And a lot of that is directly attributable to trying to use too small a cab for the build.
-- Lugia

I have this other rack idea, I don't have too much money to spend on a gigantic Eurorack case but I think I can learn a lot with a case like this for a year or so. I want to process my snare drum in real-time with a modular and Max, using percussion modules that will blend and activate with the snare triggering through Max. This kind of stuff but with a modular approach:

Feature request: add the ability to archive racks for when you're tired of looking at them but don't want to delete them!
-- troux

+1 for me :-)

P.S. / Edit: Since that would costs storage on the web server, it might be considered to make this available to unicorn accounts only?

-- GarfieldModular

+1 here as well...but as for the archiving, a better idea might be some sort of DLable format that can be read (but obviously NOT manipulated) offline by users. By setting up the ability to DL and UL archived racks, this then opens up MG's storage issues while still letting users work on their racks...archived or otherwise...at will. And yeah, this oughta be a Unicorn feature...yet another reason for getting that Unicorn account.

Thank You:))

If this is supposed to interface with a Max patch, it's awfully limited. And a lot of that is directly attributable to trying to use too small a cab for the build. As many of us here have noted, trying to use these "beauty case" builds is fraught with restrictions that actually impair the synth's capabilities and performability. They're fine for "mission specific" rigs, but trying to build a full-on Max destination in one is asking for trouble.

First thing I would suggest: remove the ES-8 and go with an outboard interface. Any DC-coupled audio interface works, and I and a couple of others here use the "obsolete" MOTU 828mkii as that. By going with an outboard interface, you can easily expand via various interface I/Os, plus the 828mkii isn't considered "optimal" for recording these days, so they come in for cheap. And Ableton CV Tools has really good DAW integration as...well, it's part of Live in the first place, so there's no need to hunt down plugs, screw excessively with interfacing protocols, and the like. Also, since it's NOT in the cab, you'll be more likely to want to use it on other CV/g/t-capable synths.

Feature request: add the ability to archive racks for when you're tired of looking at them but don't want to delete them!
-- troux

+1 for me :-)

P.S. / Edit: Since that would costs storage on the web server, it might be considered to make this available to unicorn accounts only?

EDITED Aug 9th 2021, 00:53

One essential module for ANY external instrument has to be an input preamp WITH an envelope follower. That last part is essential; given the peculiar envelope that a shamisen has, it's something you'll 100% want to work with for modulating filters, VCAs and the like. That way, you can also use the shamisen as a controller that can be used to impose its envelope behavior onto the electronic signals.

And it's also not expensive; the Doepfer A-119 is pretty much the "gold standard" at only $99, and it provides a comparator gate in addition to the preamp and envelope follower. When the incoming level exceeds your threshold setting, the A-119 fires off a gate, which stops when the level goes back below the threshold.

EDITED Aug 9th 2021, 00:53

Ha! You've discovered some of the other voodoo that an outboard DC-coupled interface allows!

This sort of thing is why I went with it. Instead of having the CV I/O as a device-dedicated setup, using an external interface in this way is much more fluid. And given that Ableton WILL allow multiple types of streams to the 828 via CV Tools along with the easy (and CHEAP) implementation of more I/O channels...well, hey, it kinda sells itself! And with the right adjustments to CV Tools allowing compatibility to...well, pretty much anything that'll take CVs...it's possible to have those scalings present whenever you call them up.

Hi Gumbo23,

Ha, ha, I love this track, so much fun to listen at! :-) Beautiful, interesting and humouristic sounds you got there. Lots of resonance sounds ;-)

Keep on coming with tracks like these, they make my day and make me smile :-D Thank you very much for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Steve,

Wow, a new album, that's great! With EP do you mean the real thing on a vinyl record? That would be fantastic! :-)

All tracks make use of a lot of fun sounds, nice and attractive to the listener! From those four tracks, my favourite is the Wednesday Acid track. Kind of relaxing to listen at. By the way, how is the Metropolix?

Thanks a lot for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi!

I'm new to modular synthesizers and I'm deeply in love with it. I'm into Max/MSP and algorithmic synthesis and I want to adventure in this world. I'd like to get more into it but have very little knowledge so far. Does this rack look good? Am I missing something? I'm trying to achieve some sort of probabilistic sequencer with the possibility to implement some patches from Max/MSP through the Expert Sleepers ES-8. Would you replace something? Would you recommend something else? There are some redundant modules? Any help would be greatly appreciated :)

Thanks!

Thank you both!

Proper down tempo squidgy acid :) Nice.

Man, this sounds great. Your mix on galaktoboureko acid especially sounds outstanding. Keep making the acid and I'll keep taking it. :)

Looks like XAOC Batumi and Studio Electronics 5089 filter at the top right.

Nice @gumbo23....do you mind sharing your rack? was wondering what the one in the upper right was in particular

Second feature request for the day: Bandcamp embeds!

Still working on some new tunes, the first one on this EP I shared before, but there's three new ones, including the first track I've recorded with the Metropolix, galaktoboureko acid. You can check em out here:

EP isn't finished yet, I'll probably add one more, something a bit more uptempo, but I thought I'd share anyway. Hope you enjoy!

Current version of the rack:

EDITED Aug 11th 2021, 21:12

Thanks Farkas, I appreciate it. I'm pretty sure I double the bass drum from the Numeric Repetitor, sending that to both the Quad Drum and the BIA. I'm finding so many new things in the BIA this week - not surprising that the founders say that pretty much the company's success is based on getting that module so right. When I got back into modular a few weeks back it was the first thing on my Modular Grid mockup!

Great work @gumbo23. I love that sync bass sound (I’m guessing that is the Basimilus). Keep sharing!