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Sort of the same as last weeks stream patch but the 2hp Pluck is going into the Mimeophon and Monsoon Clouds.

Cheers for listening, and looking at my Elbow quite a lot, Tats on upper arm are due a redesign to work better with the lower arm.

that's always how I'd thought of it - this thing!

just remember that disting can only do one (or 2, depending on model) thing at a time - you'll probably find you use it primarily for a one or 2 things after a while - replace them with dedicated modules and continue exploring the disting - I'm currently using mine as an extra vca - AR envelope for noiseout of deckards voice into rings - which is in turn fed though magneto with a wasp filter in the send return loop - sounds epic!

I always used to use mine as a tape echo - then I caved and got an fx aid xl and then magneto - heheh always more modules!

what a mess
hehehe
maybe instead of the dopefer mixer/vca - something like veils which is both at once would be more appropriate, alm, intelijel and happy nerding make decent alternatives

-- JimHowell1970

Hehe, yeah it's a work-in-progress for sure. It's a little tidier now if clicked through, but looks like there's some caching for these images that are pulled from rack links.

Thanks for the advice. I'll maybe keep the a-135-2 for VCA duties, and look into a 7hp mixer that will fit instead of the Doepfer adder, since I discovered Disting can also do precision adding, as well as so many other things. I'm playing around with the SD card sample playback algos right now. A bit quirky, but what a versatile unit! Any idea why it's called 'Disting'? Sounds a bit like a Jamaican accented 'This thing'. Like - what do I need for this gap in my patch? Dis ting!

I'm currently testing Plaits in VCV Rack, going through the manual at the same time. Am I wrong or is this a fantastic sound source? I mean there are so many sonic possibilities just with this alone. Any ideas on what the advantage would be to go with a more classic VCO over the Plaits? I'm thinking that with a classic (Dual) VCO one would perhaps be more inclined towards finding interesting ways of modifying and shaping the sound source as opposed to a tool that has it all premade?

depending on what you want from a rack then a trigger sequencer like steppy may be useful immediately - if the track is predominantly percussion, for example

in a general purpose rack of this size where I would advise keeping to a single (melodic) voice, pams can adequately cover trigger sequencing - as there is not that much to trigger, as well as envelopes, unipolar lfos and looped quantized random cv for generating melodies

at some point you may want to have more control over over melody - and I would expect this to be before wanting a trigger sequencer - in which case a melodic sequencer not a trigger sequencer is what you would want

sequencer (steppy?)

what are you trying to sequence?? - if it's plonk then I would just use Pams for now

Initially I plan to use Pams as 'the brains' of my rack, but doesn't it make sense to add a sequencer at some point? Or formulated differently, at what stage would it make sense for me to add a sequencer to my setup? I used steppy initially but I'm not fixed on that one specifically, could be anything else.

what a mess
hehehe
maybe instead of the dopefer mixer/vca - something like veils which is both at once would be more appropriate, alm, intelijel and happy nerding make decent alternatives

Hey @ryanthegecko do you mind providing a link to your rack vs. the image?
-- jb61264

Heya, sure thing:

EDITED Aug 21st 2021, 10:23

hmm - seems you are confusing complex oscillator with semi modular - DFAM is a semi modular - or are you talking about the drone grone?

what;s the use case for the quantizer? it would appear superfluous to me - don't the sequencers in mom, dfam and bloom have quantizers built in already? maybe not the dfam?

I've said it before and I'll say it again - more utilities!!!!

but if you don't like patching modules together maybe modular is not for you - 5 modules is a tiny patch! which is fine - but there's a reason that vcos come without filters - so you get to choose which filter (or not) is used with which vco, how many vcos are mixed before hitting a vcf, how those vcos are mixed and filtered - do you want to use an lpg instead of a vca? etc etc

doepfer are great full stop! not just when you are starting out...

I think the more you want to actually do "modular synthesis" as opposed to "just connecting some synthesizer modules together to produce some sounds", the more simple building block modules are important, and even when "just... to produce sounds" the addition of simple building blocks into especially modulation is an inexpensive way to implement complexity - and doepfer are especially good at simple building block modules that mostly do exactly what they say they do

I have quite a few doepfer modules - mostly utilities and filters - and I consider them to be as good quality as any other manufacturer - I've not got an adsr though

maybe some of their modules are a bit poorly documented (possibly lost in translation from german to english) and the odd module doesn't work how you might expect, but the same can be said for almost all manufacturers

and whilst he didn't invent modular synthesis, Dieter did start the eurorack format

@Lugia - yeah - I kind of know what you mean, but I'd call it moving basic utilities into the "expensive" row:

the cost of the 1u row is the same as that of a 3u row in terms of rails, inserts/nuts, screws

the difference in case material is generally negligible - unless possibly made from a very rare wood

hp for hp tiles are less functionally dense than 3u modules so will only cover 1/3rd the functionality or so

and all to save 3.5"...

better to get an extra row of 3u unless there is some overwhelming reason - & the only real one I can think of is overhead baggage size limits

might be worth getting a jumble henge to try it out,so my D.O.MIXX would be like a sub-mixer of some sorts?

-- Broken-Form

That's probably how I would use them. I have a few smaller "character" sub-mixers that lead into the Toppobrillo Stereomix, which I like, but I've considered both the Jumble Henge and Soundstage for my end-of-chain mixer. I've also looked at the SSF Vortices for a completely different flavor. I just like to experiment with creative mixing in the rack. Ultimately, you will have way more control with volume, EQ, and panning in your DAW, but these fixed EQ mixers seem like a good solution for live situations and capturing an acceptable quick studio mix.

Looks like the D.O. MIXX has direct outs on each of the five channels, so you could set volume levels there and then send each channel to the Jumble Henge for EQ and panning. The Jumble Henge would allow 11 more inputs and be your main outs at that point. You might be able to do some interesting feedback patching too.
-- farkas

might be worth getting a jumble henge to try it out,so my D.O.MIXX would be like a sub-mixer of some sorts?

Rossum filters are great. I have lineaus and evolution. Morgasmatron is also badass. Lineaus and Morgasmatron have changed my mind about what a filter can be; if I push them I get totally new unexpected signal. Filter as unique topology waveshaper in that case. Very west coast mentality. Evolution on the other hand is a beautiful ladder filter, expensive for a ladder but totally covers what I want from a ladder filter. Those are my three favorite Euro rack format filters so far. If I wanted to add any more filters I would check out the Joranalogue filter or some of the ones mentioned above.

Hello!
So my rack has evolved since this initial post.
Where I am at…
I have a DFAM, PNW and expander, a Mult and sound out.
I have 1500 to spend on some modules.
PLAN:
Maths
Drone Grone or Vampire( wish I saw some more vids on the vampire cause on paper it looks amazing and I’m worried I’m pulled towards the Grone drone course of clouds)
Mother 32
Some kind of quantizer
Echophon
Bloom
Can’t get them all but this was the order I was thinking.
Really loving my DFAM and PNW…I have a digitakt which I’m using for kick, snare and high hat ( love an real high hat and wish I could just have a drummer hitting hats while I mess around)
I know everyone has a different workflow and I’ve been learning about mine…. Love modular but don’t love needing 5 modules to make something musical. Which was why I ventured down the complex oscillator path. Happy the DFAM was my first module but feel like I might have gotten spoiled and think…what that’s just an oscillator with no filter?
Sorry…this turned more into a train of though then post but I guess I just wanted to give some background on my workflow thinking.
Thanks!

While I haven't been able to pick up any other ADDAC filters yet, I did get an ADDAC105 4-Voice Cluster which has an onboard filter, and I love the sound on that one. It's not super-crazy or anything, but just very nice, clean, sharp, and smooth. Love the ADDACs I've been able to use thus far, but I do wish they had more/better CV input options on their lower cost modules.

EDITED Aug 21st 2021, 03:05

Lol

Yeah Doepfer is sort of great when getting into modular and sort of not so great at the same time. They are as true "modular" as you get, I think they pretty much invented it, and their modules tend to be on the technical side. Their instructions are always available but sometimes not the most readable/approachable. I've typically found their UI layouts, while always clean and consistent, to be on the needlessly unintuitive side in some cases.

Beyond that I've found with ADSRs in general that the LED indicators tend to often not behave entirely as I would expect, nor in fact the ADSRs themselves. I've found the Doepfer ADSR I have to be particularly, mm... uncooperative for my purposes, maybe we could say? ... and I prefer my dual Soundforce ADSR. But I've found ADSRs in modular generally to be a much different animal than they were in the digital applications I'd always used before -- way more sensitive and particular, often with what seem to be threshold points where a tiny millimeter of a dial turn will suddenly make a big difference to the sound even though the previous quarter-of-a-dial seemed to barely do a thing. That's often the frustrating thing for me, feeling like my "workable" area in each ADSR always falls into a very tiny range of the dial or knob. Those and EGs have definitely been a learning process for me as I've gotten into this hobby. That said when used creatively they've been a great tool ... but I don't always use them in the same straightforward ways I would in digital applications.

Anyway, all the advice already provided covers it pretty well, just empathizing with the struggle I guess.

EDITED Aug 21st 2021, 03:00

Tiles are space-savers...but only with certain modules. For example, I deleted the Joranalogue mixer from the original build because Intellijel's got their QuadrATT, which gives you one more mixing input/attenuverter for cheaper ($179-ish vs $79). And the Noise Tools solves the noise source and sample and hold issues. But when there's no need for tiles, then yes, Jim's right on that. However, for portable rigs and definitely for one-row skiffs, tiles make a good bit of sense for shifting the basic utilities out of the "expensive" row.

I get fussy about tuning, so my tuner of choice is actually a Peterson Strobetuner. Yep, with the motorized disc, the line-frequency neon lamp, all that fun stuff BECAUSE you can detune up or down with precision due to the Strobetuner's cents vernier dial and the strobe disc's "motion". And if I'm seriously chasing some REALLY out there scalar stuff, I also have a frequency counter. If it worked for Rick Wakeman back in the early 70s, it'll work great today, too!

Hey @ryanthegecko do you mind providing a link to your rack vs. the image?

These are good fixes...but the REAL fix is this one book, probably one of the best books on electronic and/or studio mixing strategies of all time. And it's from 1913! Vide:

https://www.amazon.com/Principles-Orchestration-Nikolay-Rimsky-Korsakov/dp/B09BGLY3V8/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3GST0Q37CGQYW&dchild=1&keywords=rimsky+korsakov+principles+of+orchestration&qid=1629508971&sprefix=rimsky-korsakov+orchestration%2Caps%2C179&sr=8-6

No lie. This was the orchestration text we used for my instrumentation and orchestration classes in undergrad...but I noticed that Rimsky-Korsakov's concepts of how to keep various orchestration layers from clashing/overrunning each other also worked perfectly when mixing multitrack audio. No oboe or cor anglais? OK, there's some electronic signal that sounds like 'em, so why not deal with those the same way, albeit with faders and EQs? By doing this sort of "ab extensio" sort of approach to this book, you'll find that mixing and composition in electronic media gets WAY easier, and your mixes sound tighter.

One other caveat: if you're using EQ while multitracking, NEVER boost. Always cut. The only times you'd use boost on an EQ will either be to accentuate frequency bands within a sound, as an effect, or gentle and wide boosts on a mixbus program EQ during mixdown, and even there, you don't want to go bug-nutz on boosting. You can always pull levels up...but bringing them down can actually really mess with your ability to control the mix because you'll get a false perspective from the hotter signals.

EDITED Aug 21st 2021, 01:32

Good idea as well, I’ll probably go that route after getting the Behringer ARP 2600 (which I believe might be closer to what I’m looking for than the minibrute). Thanks everyone for all the help!

Hi JB61264,

For a test, what you could do is, set all A, D, S & R knobs to for example a small value, let's say at 2 but not at zero, please! As Catwavez already mentioned, make sure you provide a gate signal to the gate input and then for example connect the out of that ADSR to the CV input of a VCA. If you have a Doepfer A-130-1 or A-131-1 then connect it for the sake of keeping the test simple to the CV1 input.

Then feed the VCA with some music, try to keep the rhythm of the music and the gate signal you sending to the ADSR in about the same tempo and then you should hear something coming out of your VCA. Once that works, try to play with the ADSR knobs and you should get some results.

Make sure that the gate signal that you feed into the A-140-2 isn't too extremely fast. For the sake of this test purpose provide a rather slow gate and then test it. Once you can confirm the ADSR works, you can increase up the gate speed of your preference. Note that Doepfer ADSRs (at least the A-140-1 that I have) can't cope with extremely fast gates.

If you are looking for a nice snappy EG (that can handle fast gates) then consider the Hikari Instruments - Triple AD as a second EG and use your Doepfer dual ADSR for the more slower gate stuff. I am not saying that Doepfer can't handle fast gates, it can but perhaps not at super speed (if that's what you are looking for). At "super" speed, the LEDs might not lit up. At extreme low ADSR knob settings the LEDs might not lit up either hence my advice to start with a slow gate first and all knobs set to two (2) for example.

Good luck with the troubleshooting and I hope you can manage to get your dual ADSR work. Kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

Awesome! Thanks for this, I did as you mentioned and its definitely working :)
Still wish they had some sort of reference 'manual' like Mutable has for their stuff...even if its just a page that has a brief label for all the connections and outputs...oh well, soldier on with the learning curve ;)

The dual envelope? The Doepfer website says the LED is for the output so it should light up once you send a gate into it.
-- catwavez
Can you send me a link that you looked at...i went to http://www.doepfer.de/home.htm and didn't find anything on the a-140-2...saw something for a-140, but they look quite different.

-- jb61264

Here is where I found it. http://www.doepfer.de/a1402.htm
-- catwavez
Thanks, I did see this page but was hoping there was a PDF somewhere too like the links that they have there for A-140

Either that, or Uli'll buy it and clone it. He does have a bit of a track record at that sort of thing, after all...

Right...technically, you could use a basic comparator as well, but this specific Doepfer module is designed for audio AND modulation use. Not all comparators can work nicely at audio frequencies, so this purpose-designed version is the winner here I think.

Hi Nickgreenberg,

Since you are looking for rather chaos modules and less for random modules then have a look into Make Noise's Wogglebug and Telharmonic modules as well. They can be total chaos and with a bit luck, sometimes, you can manage to get something reasonable out of it, but if you want just chaos they serve that purpose pretty well is my experience :-)

Another "beauty" if it comes to unorganised chaos is the Erica Synths - Black Octasource, that's a chaotic LFO pure! But semi-organised if you like otherwise just leave it completely up to Octasource itself to get totally bananas, I love this module. It needs a bit time to learn and understand this psycho (module) but I love it.

Have fun with all that chaos and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi JB61264,

For a test, what you could do is, set all A, D, S & R knobs to for example a small value, let's say at 2 but not at zero, please! As Catwavez already mentioned, make sure you provide a gate signal to the gate input and then for example connect the out of that ADSR to the CV input of a VCA. If you have a Doepfer A-130-1 or A-131-1 then connect it for the sake of keeping the test simple to the CV1 input.

Then feed the VCA with some music, try to keep the rhythm of the music and the gate signal you sending to the ADSR in about the same tempo and then you should hear something coming out of your VCA. Once that works, try to play with the ADSR knobs and you should get some results.

Make sure that the gate signal that you feed into the A-140-2 isn't too extremely fast. For the sake of this test purpose provide a rather slow gate and then test it. Once you can confirm the ADSR works, you can increase up the gate speed of your preference. Note that Doepfer ADSRs (at least the A-140-1 that I have) can't cope with extremely fast gates.

If you are looking for a nice snappy EG (that can handle fast gates) then consider the Hikari Instruments - Triple AD as a second EG and use your Doepfer dual ADSR for the more slower gate stuff. I am not saying that Doepfer can't handle fast gates, it can but perhaps not at super speed (if that's what you are looking for). At "super" speed, the LEDs might not lit up. At extreme low ADSR knob settings the LEDs might not lit up either hence my advice to start with a slow gate first and all knobs set to two (2) for example.

Good luck with the troubleshooting and I hope you can manage to get your dual ADSR work. Kind regards, Garfield.

@TumeniKnobs, yes what you described of Plaits+Sloths is exactly the main type of use case I'm planning: chaos signals routed into timbral controls. FYI bottom of Nonlinear Circuits pages often have videos where you can see their modules on scopes and hear results. But yes I would be interested to hear your configuration!

I just installed Sloths today and it’s immediately making Plaits do very cool things by modulating timbre, morph and harmonics. I’ve also got it hooked up to Data so I can see the waves. I was thinking about doing a video of the scope with some detailed descriptions- there’s not much out there to help understand exactly how it works.

The 1U modules are very practical and somehow space savers.

I'd disagree with this - if you can fit an extra 3u instead of a 1u then go for the 3u - I really don't see the appeal of 1u tiles - except in extremely small cases - and I rarely see the point of them, tbh

a tool like Maths or Quadra. Or maybe both?

I would get one and then think about what best complements that for you - personally I would go maths first because of the illustrated manual

sequencer (steppy?)

what are you trying to sequence?? - if it's plonk then I would just use Pams for now

why? because a single sound source can be copied and processed differently, a few simple modulation sources can be mixed and >modified to become more modulation sources that are more complex

Could you explain a little bit more on how to achieve this? The part of the copied sound source I mean. To what degree can one sound source be copied and modified ?

output of sound source -> multiple -> outputs of multiple to different filters, delays, reverbs, vcas etc etc etc

By doing this, you can then move some of your functions up into the tiles, plus the header gives you three buffered mults (usable as one HUGE buffered mult)

What's the advantage to have many buffered multipliers, is it related to previous question where you would duplicate one sound source/cv signal to multiple outputs?
-- codecks

no a simple passive mult is adequate for most signals within the modular with the exception of v/oct - this needs to be precise if you want to play in tune, especially with other people - once a v/oct signal is quantized you want to use a buffered mult to guarantee that any copy is exact when delivered to the vcos inputs - say you have three vcos and tune them to specific intervals to play chords - you want each one to receive exactly the same pitch information (the root note, usually) so that the chord is in tune - with other signals audio, modulation, gates etc a tiny variation will not make any noticeable difference

as you only have a single vco I would not worry too much about buffered mults - unless you want to modulate filter cutoff with the v/oct - in which case you would need a single buffered mult - you already have 2 on order in links

EDITED Aug 20th 2021, 21:12

Thanks for the answers.
The screenshot: the offset is normal. Sorry for not clarifying that.

Ok, I'm going to look for the inverters.

I don't think you are missing anything

to mirror a positive waveform to a negative waveform a standard inverter would absolutely do

for the phase offset a short dc coupled delay would work - but if the frequency of the waveform changes the so will the phase offset - so may not be a viable solution

@Broken-Form, how many voices would you be running simultaneously?

I thought about this point a while back for my own rig. My conclusion was I would need to go into the DAW for EQ etc. if I was running enough voices; I thought doing a lot of EQ in modular, or having EQ hardware to run the modular into, just wasn't worth it for my uses.

I did get Mutable Shelves to be able to do a little EQing in modular. I don't use it too much, but it is helpful on occasions.

Thanks for the recommendations above folks!

@cmb_ is correct, I am presently more interested in "chaos" type modules which are different from random. The Elby link / description above is good. Put simply, chaos module outputs are less patterned than LFOs but more patterned than random.

The Nonlinear Circuits chaos modules are particularly interesting to me (https://www.nonlinearcircuits.com/modules?tag=Chaos). I'm going to get Triple Sloths. If people love/hate the other modules, I'd be interested to hear which ones and why!

In the meantime, I'll continue to check out the recommendations above, most of which I'd never heard of before. Thanks for the ideas everyone!

Looks like the D.O. MIXX has direct outs on each of the five channels, so you could set volume levels there and then send each channel to the Jumble Henge for EQ and panning. The Jumble Henge would allow 11 more inputs and be your main outs at that point. You might be able to do some interesting feedback patching too.

The Worng Soundstage and ALM Jumble Henge mixers seem to solve this problem with EQ and panning pre-set for each input. Every demo I have heard of each sound great for standard usage, and they can be used more creatively too.
-- farkas

would be cool to be able to use one of the above with my D.O.MIXX but dont know if thats possible?(Properly Not)

Wow, thanks for the detailed replies! Really appreciate it. Something I didn't mention is that I will be building my modular in a 19" rack. So for one 3u row I'm limited to the 84HP, but I still have enough space in the 19" rack and eventually I will expand to a second row. The 1U modules are very practical and somehow space savers. I haven't seen a 19" 1u rack yet but I'm looking into that.

There's a lot of valuable information to process here. I'll take my time to go through, check the modules you refer to properly and reply here later on. I guess the best is to build up slowly, test with the modules I already own and see what makes the most sense to add.

I'll sum up what I have already. I now realize that I maybe should have waited for your replies to make better choices, but heck, at least it got me started (I have a tendency to put things off when I start thinking too much about it :-) ). So here's the current list:

• 1 behringer 19" 84hp rack (possibility to add a second one + 1u row)
• 1 pamela's new workout (on order)
• 1 joranalogue mix 3 (on order) (veils might have been the better choice as you both suggested, but I think it will do fine for now, I can always replace it later + I checked and it's DC coupled.
• 1 ​plonk (probably not the best to have as sole sound source, because it's more percussion oriented, so I will definitely add a proper VCO, although I wonder if the plonk can output regular waveforms?)
• 1 kinks (on order)
• 1 links (on order)
• 1 befaco output V3

As for the next batch of things I think to buy, it will probably be a:

1. a VCO (Gravitational Waves sounds really good)
2. a tool like Maths or Quadra. Or maybe both?
3. a filter
4. fx
5. sequencer (steppy?)

I'm thinking of a tighter integration with my DAW (midi, CV) in a follow-up phase. For now I'll be happy just playing with the thing and record the audio into my DAW.

I still have a lot of questions but two things I'd like to know more about for now (and sorry for the newbie questions):

why? because a single sound source can be copied and processed differently, a few simple modulation sources can be mixed and >modified to become more modulation sources that are more complex

Could you explain a little bit more on how to achieve this? The part of the copied sound source I mean. To what degree can one sound source be copied and modified ?

By doing this, you can then move some of your functions up into the tiles, plus the header gives you three buffered mults (usable as one HUGE buffered mult)

What's the advantage to have many buffered multipliers, is it related to previous question where you would duplicate one sound source/cv signal to multiple outputs?

The image looks like it has a 50% phase offset in addition to mirroring the wave. If it’s just a “mirror” you want wouldn’t a standard inverter do that? Maybe I’m missing something.

EDITED Aug 20th 2021, 17:08

I would like EQ capabilities in my rack and might think about adding it when I eventually upgrade to bigger rack space. But as noted, without it I have turned to more careful sound design, filtering, arranging, enveloping, panning and effects use to avoid sonic clashes in the final mix (with varying degrees of success).

That Jumble Henge looks pretty compelling, and definitely sounds effective, but I guess I could only use it on things I want to sub-mix prior to hitting my main rack mixer.

@farkas do you set it so the pitch is kind of going between the + and - on the Disting. I can never get it to be exact on a C.
TIA

-- greenfly

Mine is usually just about spot on at the C+ pitch. Close enough for me anyway.

I often use a Korg TM-40 for tuning my Mother32 and Subharmonicon since they’re not in my 7U cases. I just prop it up in front of a monitor. It’s not ideal but it does the job and it’s cheap. I put Data in my rack and use that for tuning everything else. I know you said you weren’t really considering it, but I can’t recommend it enough especially for the scope functionality. Very educational.

I believe it’s known as contagion. Which is a bit of a creepy term. “Value” is certainly a complex philosophical concept, but at least it’s also a decidedly personal one. No doubt many would empty their bank accounts for an item that Jesus farted on. ;-)

@farkas do you set it so the pitch is kind of going between the + and - on the Disting. I can never get it to be exact on a C.
TIA

if you have a disting you already have a tuner built into that
-- JimHowell1970

Lately, I have used Disting almost exclusively for its tuner and sample & hold functions. It works very well for both.

The Worng Soundstage and ALM Jumble Henge mixers seem to solve this problem with EQ and panning pre-set for each input. Every demo I have heard of each sound great for standard usage, and they can be used more creatively too.

sound design, filtering and arrangement are the obvious ways to prevent clashing frequencies without eq

EDITED Aug 20th 2021, 09:54

Hi folks,

I'm having a problem with the Disting's (mk 3.1) sample and hold algorithm:

-Noise is coming out of output B as expected, and am feeding this back to input X
-I have a simple lfo ramp wave to input Y, and the led light in input Y flashes at the tempo of the lfo

Now I would expect random voltages changing at the speed of the lfo, but out comes a steady waveform. What am I missing? Or is the device/firmware corrput? I can get other patches to work fine (tested a few, not all yet...)

I'm kinda beginner in the eurorack world, but can handle synths just fine!

thanks, all ideas appreciated!

best,

Jussi Lampela

guitar pedals tuners - depending on the model they are easy to read and don't take up any rack space - connect with a 3.5 -> 6.5mm cable - and they are no more expensive than modules

if you have a disting you already have a tuner built into that