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My brain was starting to think in hi-hat patterns, so I figured it might be time to try something new. I shifted around my 208 rack to see if I could prove @Lugia's "208's not enough for generative" maxim wrong, patched it up, stepped back, and got this:
You can see the rack here, Monome Crow is doing a lot of work as it dual quantizes through the circle of fifths:
It turned out pretty well I think, but there's not enough timbral or dynamic variation, and a little too much reverb (what's new?) so I'm gonna take another crack at it once I shift some modules around and add a bit more modulation and VCAs to see whether it's possible to go a bit deeper here.
start with a single voice and all the support modules that are needed for that - but instead of buying a single vca, buy a quad etc etc etc get to know them inside out and then add as needed as slowly as possible
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
only noobs think of redundancy in modular - at least from just looking at a rack
a module is redundant if and only if you never use it - and the only person who can work that out is the actual user of the rack - this is because how you patch may be different from how I patch etc etc
duplication of both functionality and specific modules is useful once you get past a couple of voices
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I haven't found a way to put it on marketplace so I'll leave it here.
I've done group order at modular addict but friend of mine changes his mind leaving me with a lot of cables I have no use for.
So I'm selling stackable and thin cables form modular addict with -15% off and shipping from Poland. If anyone is interested feel free to contact me and make sure you do before I sell them all (hopefully). https://modularaddict.com/stacking-patch-cables https://modularaddict.com/parts/cables/skinny-patch-cables
Hi.
A perhaps strange but nevertheless a request. How about having the possibility to have different HP per row in one rack?
I have two skiffs, 84 and 104hp respectively. I'd like to have them both as one rack. And yes, it's pretty easy - I'm using blind panels for the 84hp row and everything is ok.
But it would be pretty nice, and I believe not too hard to implement, separate row lengths. Already we can select a row to be 1U, and we can switch rows...
Wow, I can't thank you enough.
About quadratt and maths, I know they are two different things but since maths can be a mixer/attenuverter I asked about the redundancy of quadratt in the previous setup.
I knew rainmaker was too big for this setup and I was looking for reasons to keep it 😆.
I don't get why temps utile is better than Pam in this context but I'll study more both and try to understand why.
Ok wow, that's a major amount of feedback – much more than I was hoping for. You've given me a comprehensive research plan and what an ideal state looks like, to work back from so thank you very, very much!
What would be your suggestion for a basic roadmap? Start with the ability to bring in voices from outside the rig, in order to focus on building out (and learning how to use) the brain/control within the rack?
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
There was a lot of stuff in the original build that just didn't seem as if it worked together. Plus, you had some misunderstandings about a few modules, such as the difference between Maths and the QuadrATT (the former is a modulation source, the latter is just a quad attenuverter/mixer). In the end, I decided to rebuild the whole thing as a three-voice setup, keeping the Octatrack use in mind. I came up with this:
It's SORT OF the same...but things have either been reinforced or shifted to more capable/better sized modules.
Top row: Shapeshifter and QPAS...then I started having some fun. The QPAS is tandemmed with a CV stereo crossfader; this allows you to select two stereo output pairs from the QPAS and crossfade between them for more timbral complexity. Then I added two pairs of Noise Reap Paradoxes, which are dual crossmodulating VCOs, then these go to a Veils clone so that you can CV around through the VCOs to do some complex timbral stuff there, or "mixsequencing" between the four VCOs before this goes to a G-Storm clone of the Roland JP-6 multimode VCF. Notice that the VCF also has a dual input, which allows you to "break out" a VCO or two and feed them directly to the VCF, bypassing the CV mixing from the Veils clone. Lastly, I added the mo'fo of all nasty, dirty VCOs, the Schlappi Engineering Angle Grinder, for in-your-face leads. This goes to a Font, which is a Ripples clone. We'll get back to the audio in a bit...
Tiles got changed a lot. The MIDI interface is now at the left end, to feed the VCOs. Then there's a Noise Tools, which gives you noise, clocking, a slew limiter, plus a sample and hold. The QuadrATT got shrunk down to a DuATT to provide some modulation attenuation/polarization control for the VCOs' CV/mod inputs. Next is a sneakily-added passive LPG, which in tandem with your noise gen can serve as an extra percussive. Since the Rainmaker was simply too large for this sort of build, I added a stereo delay (or chorus or reverb) back in with an Intellijel Multi-FX, then the line I/O is next to this.
Bottom row: I swapped the Pam's for a Temps Utile, which I think will work out better in this build. Your Disting EX is next to this, followed by a dual sample and hold, then the Shifty analog shift register. After this, there's a buffered mult, which you'll want if you decide to put ALL of the VCOs under a single pitch CV. I switched out the Maths for a Befaco Rampage, which is the same general sort of thing minus 2 hp. This then allowed me to drop in a Batumi for CV controlled LFOs, and a Roti Pola which is there to allow you to invert/mix complex modulation signals from the Batumi. Another Veils clone provides VCAs for the CV/modulation signals, then the Zadar. I upped the FX Aid to the full version, and then put in a Toppobrillo Stereomix mkii; this provides final level VCAs for four audio inputs, CV over panning, and CV over FX sends. It also has FX send/return (stereo return) jacks, a headphone preamp (which can be switched to CUE for isolating mixer strips for tuning, etc), and mutes on all inputs. A mixer like this is pretty essential for audio control, especially if you ever intend to use the system live.
This is pretty beefy now. Technically, you can source as many as FOUR different sources from this build, including the noise-to-LPG routing I mentioned. I'd actually consider taking this out for live gigs myself, which is saying something. This should be more than suitable for your purposes, plus it's open-ended enough that it'll play nicely with the Octatrack.
Not bad...but the signal flow is all over the place, and with generative work, that's BAD. You need a much more coherent arrangement so that, once it's all up and flying, you can easily deal with any subsystems that aren't functioning as expected. Also, the 4 x 84 arrangement makes things pretty dense; shifting to something considerably larger will make the build much easier to sort out and program. farkas also makes a good point, in that VCAs + free-running modulation sources are one of the keys to making the generative process work.
Instead of 4 x 84, a better choice might be 4 x 140 via two of those Behringer powered cabs (provided we get some verification of the P/S stability and reliability of those power supplies). Another idea might be 3 x 168, using a three row Doepfer Monster case, where we know the power situation is already tried and tested. In fact...
OK...now THIS is a serious generative build!
You'll notice what seems to be a disproportionately-large section of clock-based modules. These are there to extract timing info from a large amount of different internal (and external, hence the ES-8 in the bottom left) modulation sources, and then to process these via a Boolean logic module + a Xaoc Warna trigger/gate combiner/distributor to create composite clocking signals. Plus, these also work in tandem with the two sequencers; one of these is a Time's Arrow, which is a purely generative CV/gate sequencer, and the other more "determinate" one being a Tiptop Z8000. A quad quantizer deals with the CVs from this array, plus a sequential switch steps through the four CV outputs from the Z8000. The Derivator next to the Time's Arrow outputs gates based on CV movement, and the VC Trigger Source is a "pick-off" for trigger pulses when CV thresholds are passed. Next to the Logic 202 is a dual-channel probabilistic skipper for gate pulses, and the Fractio Solum is a CVable clock divider/multiplier for further manipulation of the Pam's signals. Above that group is another set of timing and randomization modules, plus more CV manipulation.
In that section, you have a buffered mult, then the Triple Sloths. After that is a Verbos Random Sampling source, which contains your noise sources as well as Buchla 265-esque random weighting for random signals (VERY necessary!), plus a 4-out analog shift register which replaces the Intellijel module. Then the Wogglebug, and after that a Min/Max derivator for CV manipulation based on arithmetical values. The Compare 2 contains two window comparators, which are special comparators that can output a pulse based on crossing two different thresholds, also containing some logic. These can also be CV controlled so that the generative processes can change the various thresholds while running. The Tool-Box has some more utilities, plus another "normal" comparator. The SISM is next; this is a fully-CVable mixer for CV and modulation sources that can also perform inversion plus 4ms's "shifting" methodology for gradual changes. After that, Branches serves as a pair of probabilistic switches, and then you have a Zlob hex VCA for amplitude control of modulation signals.
Top row above this contains a few more modulation sources. The Pachinko is a 12 hp clone of Marbles, then there's a pair of Befaco Rampages to serve as complex CV-controlled modulation sources/modifiers. After that, we get into the voicing...first up is a pair of quantized dual VCOs from Klavis, then a quartet of Noise Reap VCOs in dual modules, which have the ability to cross-modulate and use VCO sync on each other. Last up is a pair of Plaits clones. Each of these oscillator sets has four VCAs for summing, so that you can use the generative processes to sort of "strum" through each set of oscillator outputs. The VCA groups (all Veils clones by Codex Modulex) sum at a manual stereo mixer, then we get to the filters, both of which have stereo I/O, and there's a Happy Nerding CV crossfader to sweep between the two stereo VCFs. The last thing there is a Xaoc Katowice, which is a stereo frequency-dependent signal divider (sort of like a crossover, but with CV control), with the idea being that you can "Y" between it and a direct feed to the Performance Mixer so that the generative processes can be made to exclude bandwidths from the summed voice signal at times, and at others you can have the full feed via its mixer strip pair.
Below the voicing section are envelopes and LFOs...there are eight free-running LFOs, the Batumi + Poti for CV controlled LFOs, then what really should be termed an "envelope sequencer" via the incredible Erogenous Tones Radar/Blip pair, which gives you eight basic envelopes...but given the way this works, it's possible to also generate sequentially-chained envelopes for composite modulation signals. Next is effects...the dual frequency shifter, then a 12-tap stereo delay, and finally a Stasis Leak, which gives you CVable stereo chorusing, tap delay, and reverb. The little white thing at the end is a Konstant Lab PWRchekr, which is useful for keeping an eye on your power bus performance.
Last up, mixing. I went with WMD's Performance Mixer here to allow some very complex automated mixing which also included dual FX sends for the delay and Stasis Leak. The Happy Nerding OUT gives you transformer-isolated 1/4" outs, plus a second stereo input that can be used for parallel mixing of another stereo source in with the mix from the Performance Mixer. It also has a headphone preamp for convenience, as does the Performance Mixer where you can also send signals to the CUE bus for tuning and adjustment without affecting the overall mix.
This thing ain't no joke! There might seem to some to be way too much going on with timing and modulation, but you have to keep in mind that all of that is the build's CONTROLLER...while you can certainly patch this up "normally" and use a MIDI source from your DAW or, as long as it's class-compliant, a MIDI controller, the main intent here is to set up complex patches that are basically self-regulating and self-adjusting so that the build can "free-run" and...well, generate audio from a large amount of interlinked parameters. And THAT is what generative is all about.
And yeah, it's spendy as hell...but then, when you do generative RIGHT, it tends to cost quite a chunk of change due to the necessary amount of specialized control modules needed to act as the generative system's "brain".
Playing around with this idea of a multi function West coast rhythmic box. This is not something that I have strong plans to build, but regardless thought it could be a fun question to pose to the MG racks community. Wondering if people had suggestions for this type of system.
Hello guys, what do you think about it? What would you replace and why?
I sequence externally via octatrack, I'd like to run just a melody from octatrack and derive other sequences from shifty/rnd etc., so that I can use the octatrack for audio mangling and live resampling and I can focus more on sound manipulation than on melody.
Music genres: ambient/techno/idm/experimental.
Is quadratt redundant with maths? I'd like to free up maths for more complex duties.
What about the vca section?
Disting ex will be my swiss army knife and Pam's the master clock.
My english is not that good, anyway I hope that everything is understandable
Thanks, I guess in an ideal world it needs some weird samples throwing in there.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Wow, this brings back memories of my first planned case. My first plan had many of these modules included. Let me just start by saying that you will almost certainly end up with a MUCH different collection and arrangement of modules than you have assembled here.
You are on the right track as far as case size if you really are committed long-term to putting a versatile rack together, but many of your modules have overlap (Shifty and uO_C, Branches and Marbles, for example), and some you have probably chosen because you see them in a lot of other racks. Maths is cool for its versatility and as a learning tool, but it's not always intuitive, and the same goes for Rampage. Could you get dedicated modules that achieve the specific functions you want? Or is the exploration more fun for you? You will probably want modules that have a wide range of patch points so you can modulate as many parameters as possible (i.e. "modulate the modulators").
You'll probably want to invest in Pamela's New Workout and the upcoming Clouds update instead of the older discontinued versions. Mults will be mega-useful, but try to keep them outside of the rack with those little in-line star-shaped splitter thingies so you don't take up limited rack space.
First and foremost, invest in a big case but only a few must-have modules. As soon as you start patching those first few modules, you will quickly realize what is missing for the sound you are trying to create. If you find yourself reaching for something that isn't there, that's the next module you should invest in. Do a LOT of research to avoid buying something that isn't going to do what you want. Wishful thinking will not make it fit into your sound and workflow. The more research you do, the fewer duds you will waste money and time on.
All of us here would likely recommend very different modules for generative patching, but the concepts of generative patching transcend specific modules or manufacturers. Check out mylarmelodies excellent video about generative patching ideas:
Go slow. This is a big investment, but above all, have fun!
I'm new to modular and having a ton of fun playing around and learning on VCVrack. I also have a Microbrute and a Volca Modular. I'd like to get into generative patches but have very little knowledge so far – maybe a grasp of the most basic principles.
I’ve made a big rack in the hope of stimulating some guidance from some veterans here:
- What would you cut/replace to cut this down to two rows?
- What’s redundant and what's overlooked?
- Is it lacking in utilities?
- Does it help to think in groups of clocks/sequencers, voices, modulators, effects? I tried to organize the rows like a cascading workflow but I’ve probably gotten myself mixed up!
- What modules (in the rack or not) would you recommend getting started with, to maximize generative options and hands-on fun? - Would patching in the Microbrute help fill the gaps?
I’d like the eventual setup to be as hands-on as possible but totally fine with combining virtual and physical modules until I get there - and I expect this journey to last for years…
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Quite a bit of Clouds reverb then slowly blending in the Granular wetness and messing with reversed grains etc, I found the Erica Pico DSP feeds back on its self on the Green mode and goes a bit crazy so I'm making use of that with another kinda half-feedback loop around the Monsoon Clouds. There's a little blippy resonant filter pinging going in there too plus some more obvious percussion kept low down.
Oh, I'm enjoying the DannySound Timbre I built too so I get two parts out of the Sine wave of the Befaco Even VCO as one part goes via the Timbre into the PICO DSP and 2HP Verb, and the other part of more straight into Clouds
Cheers for listening :)
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Thanks guys
Yeah, I'm not going to rush to part with anything too soon.
Marbles quantizes its own outputs, there is some sort of external CV processing you can do though that might get a bit techie for me. The Turing Machine needs the Tune to keep things musical. Maybe I should ditch the Euclid to start with.
I'll post today's Marbles patch over in the 'You' section.
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
Unlike @farkas I almost never sell anything (I probably should cause I'm actually running out of space) so take my perspective with a grain of salt, but given how complex your tunes often are, I say keep em all for awhile and see if they can complement each other. TM for sure can keep holding its own, not sure how many quantizers Marbles has but Tune could be used for key switching or things of that nature.
Glad you liked it both, and that's an interesting question @farkas. In that case I'm doing something similar but a bit different to No Highpass Acid: in both I'm running the Pulse out from an NTO into my NCOM to generate sub-harmonies, and that's where a lot of the harmonic movement comes in (in fact I'd like to understand exactly what's happening here theory wise, like what's the harmonic relation an octave and a half down [3 divisions on the NCOM]). There's a difference though, on No Highpass I mixed the output of the NTO and the NCOM in my Quad VCA and then put them through the VCFS, on #2 I put them through the VCFS first (it has two inputs and a crossfader) and then route that through one VCA... and for whatever reason that approach leads to some really interesting overdrive when you push it towards the NCOM's input (maybe @Lugia can explain it 👀).
Marbles looks so fun. The ergonomics are much better than the 2hp stuff, I'm sure.
I tend to sell things off pretty quick when I'm not using them, or when I add a module that does a specific function "better". For the most part I don't have any regrets (though I kinda miss the Schlappi Interstellar Radio). I'm actually considering parting with Maths since I've added more specialized, though less flexible, modules.
Can't wait to hear your Marbles in action.
Now that I've added a Marbles to my rack, does this make the 2HP Modules; Turing Machine, Tune and Euclid spare parts?
I probably have a counter-argument for keeping the Tune, maybe the TM but the Euclid functions I can get from the DNiPro DOT.
The Marbles is exactly what my system needed.
Cheers
Enjoy your spare HP, don't rush to fill every last space, this is not like filling sticker books. Resist the urge to 'complete' your rack, its never complete so just relax.
I was listening through headphones because my wife is sleeping, but found myself strangely compelled to crank up #3 on the stereo. I don't want to incur her wrath this early in the morning, so I will revisit that one later today. Haha. Sounds great, man.
Also, that overdrive on #2 is gnarly! I love the balance between the distorted line and the cleaner line. How did you achieve that?
Awesome work as always @troux.
Yeah, the Eloquencer is a really powerful and easy to use sequencer! My 0-coast was first modular synth and good to use it with my modular gear now as extra voice or drone or background layer. Before I used my Doepfer basic VCO with the Eloquencer it sounded flat and dead. But the ability to shift scales in real time with ratcheting and probability and random modes really makes that simple Doepfer VCO quite melodic and beautiful. The Loquelic Iteritas Perdido and Anti-oscillator demand more finesse however.
He, he, nice music, I like to call this "happy music", makes me happy while listening at it. Kind of strong positive attitude to be heard here, I like that!
I will continue to listen at your album, great work and thank you very much for sharing this! Kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Great rack! :-) Now it becomes clear what you mean, except those screws (still ok) it actually looks quite nice, pity the height of Kallax isn't perfectly 9U ;-) So... you cleared your living room wall and put the entire wall full with Kallax and you are now busy with mounting all those rails in it :-) ?
By the way, how many HP is one row in your Kallax?
Have fun with your rack and kind regards, Garfield.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Did a little screwing around with the last version, came up with this:
The big thing you'll notice is that everything's been reordered. I immediately moved to get audio sources away from the P/S module. So the MScale is next to that on the top row, followed by the MIDI interface. The top row was then swapped out so that all control voltage and modulation sources and manipulators are up there now.
After the MIDI interface, I swapped the divider for a more capable CVable divider/multiplier. The 2hp TM was switched out for a real Turing-style sequencer (Permutations) which also now has its own quantizer. Then Maths, and after that I swapped the expensive U-He CV manipulator with its memory and menu diving for a much cheaper and more playable MISO. A Doepfer Dual ADSR now provides proper envelope generation for VCAs and VCFs, then I switched the Zlob VCA module for a Codex Modulex clone of Veils, which loses two VCAs but gains the variable response curves on all VCAs.
Then the effects modules were switched out for various reasons (we'll get to an important one in a bit), giving you a stereo chorus/tap delay/reverb and a stereo delay in a tighter space...but not so tight that there'd be ergonomics issues.
Lower row: I put the o&C below the P/S for the same reasons as above. Then the Percussion Interface, which keeps it away from the P/S as well. Kinks is next, then we get into the actual audio path, starting with the Disting. Next is the Ensemble Oscillator, followed by a much better VCF pick, the G-Storm ARP 4012 module which replicates the Rev.1 ARP 2600 VCF, plus it provides a 2-in mixer to sum the Ensemble Oscillator's outputs down to mono. Then the Chimera and Font were paired up next.
Now, the mixer section. Another Veils clone for individual VCA level control to your mono mixer inputs. The mixer is now a Cosmotronic Cosmix, which gives you four PANNABLE mono ins, plus a mono AUX send and two stereo inputs with no AUX. Now, remember the bit with the effects? Both the Frequency Central AND Tiptop modules take a mono input and output stereo...which is perfect for feeding them BOTH with a split AUX cable, then you can parallel-mix them back in via the dual stereo ins. This is a MUCH better and more controllable method for treating effects, plus you now have a proper stereo output with the effects where they belong in the signal chain. And the HPO's at the end, and you can Y-split its inputs off of the Cosmix's stereo out.
Chucked out: the Bernoulli gate (didn't see the need for it), the Links (this build is too small for a dedicated mult; use inline passives instead when needed), and one or two other minor things, all of which got pulled to increase available panel space for superior functionality. Also, I made sure to keep suitable room throughout the build so that there weren't any space issues of consequence around the major "performance" controls. And for the cherry on the cake, I got it in for $400 less!
