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I think I would postpone the Magneto for now to recover some space to get rid of all the 2hp modules. You will probably hate trying to patch and tweak all of those little ones. In my experience, tiny modules should be used very sparingly to fill a gap here and there. You could get something like an FX Aid XL or an external tape delay pedal to use that space for other modules that you are going to want and need. The Magneto might be a good addition to a second Mantis case, but I think it's taking up too much space for now. In fact, you could get 2 FX Aids, and eliminate the Magneto and Erica Black Hole DSP and have even more room without losing much of the sound and fun of those hp hungry effect modules.
Just some thoughts I have as I look over this. Have fun and good luck!

EDITED Feb 17th 2022, 10:49

Hi Peeps,

i need some feedback on what I'm looking at for a new/future build.

all will be going into a Mantis case (2 rows of 104)
I'm i trying to cover to many corners ..??
should i be winding back on some modules..?
replace some with others...

opinions... of any kind welcome..

music i make ... from ambient to weird shit... to break-beats to D&B even a bit of techno on the weird side...

thanks in advance.

p.s mods not in row order yet..

my rack

please post a link to the actual rack - copy and paste the url
-- JimHowell1970

Sorry Jim, I posted the jpg link without looking.

please post a link to the actual rack - copy and paste the url

I'm scratching my head as to how best fill the last 40hp - yes that seems a lot, but ....

Firstly, as you'll see in my rack I'm struggling with the end of chain, so I have (in my opinion) no choice but to add a mixer, and as you'll notice (bottom right) I'm planning in the next days to take the plunge and add what seems like the best option price/space/ins/outs/etc with the Cosmix. However, that still leaves 24hp.

So, as you'll see I've added a Soundforce Dual Filter, a VCA, and a Disting EX as a possibility. I'd be interested to know if people have some other 'combinations' they'd like to suggest for the 24hp? I've never had a Distings EX, but I thought this could be (like the Ornament and Crime, Temps Utile or the Twin Waves) a sort of Swiss Army Knife and a really good addition to the rack in a small space. It will provide me with many possibilities such as filters, VCAs, a sample player (very useful), etc. Maybe others will disagree, and have alternative suggestions I hope?

As for the final two pieces (everything is on the bottom right), you'll see that I went for the option of the Dual Filter (because it has plenty of possibilities, and I enjoyed DivKids video), and the MRG VCA is just there, because at the time I was doing this I thought another VCA might be useful.

So, I'd love some help in trying to find a good and useful combination to compliment the rest of my rack - which i'm pretty happy with - changes can always be made, as we all know.

Here's my rack for you to get a better idea visually of what I'm talking about (all the modules I mention are on the bottom right):

Thanks in advance.

EDITED Feb 17th 2022, 09:27

This may or may not be helpful, but Rob Papen has a very good book called "The 4 Element Synth". It lays out the basic building blocks of all synths and how they interact normally.

Additionally, you could get a demo or paid version of any of a range of software modular synths. U-He Bazille is interesting, for example, and isn't as hindered by latency and GUI issues as some others. If you spend some time with Bazille, open one instance with a preset patch, open a 2nd instance and re-create that preset patch, that will show you a LOT about how to make modular patches.

More generally, if you're not much experienced with synthesis, spending some time listening to and goofing around with software synths (demos or paid) is a good way to get some basic fluency.

Last, it should be emphasized, modular synthesis is by nature very exploratory.

Thanks for the reply, @Lugia. That totally makes sense with audio going through an exponential VCA! I hadn't thought of it that way before, but that's exactly what the signal flow is like on most non-modular subtractive synths: no attenuator on the final audio VCA, just the final output volume level after that.

You're welcome, @ascrawa! I'm glad you found some of that helpful. =]

-Chace

System X Envelope from Frequency Central. A straightforward kit and a straightforward envelope, easy to build and use.
This video is my first after figuring out picture-in-picture oscilloscope traces during demo, which is nice.
System X build

Hi Peter...

a well worn route is

a sound source, a sound modifier, a modulation source, a way to play and a way to listen...

sound source get something that's a decent size - remember it will need to be tuned - plaits is often seen as a good starter
sound modifier - either a filter or possibly a multi-effect like fx aid xl
modulation source - can't go wrong with maths - see the 'maths illustrated supplement' as a to why - it's a great jumping off point for learning patch-programming (a powerful technique in modular synthesis) and patching in general
a way to play - straight into your mixer - if you get clipping - insert some passive attenuators - they'll always be useful...
a way to play - midi->cv interface if that's what you want...

I'd also add a starter set of utilities - I usually recommend: links, kinks, shades and veils - or modules that cover the same functionality - kinks is discontinued, but there's at least one clone available, happy nerding 3*mia is a good substitute for shades

vcv rack's a great place to start...

have fun!

Nice work @TumeniKnobs. Question: which rack did you make this with? I'm curious about a few different points.

Thanks @Exposure, and yes that's the Salmple on drums. It's sequenced by the micro Grids with the accent out hitting an envelope to give it a little more oopmh.

Hi Jim,

Thanks for your reply. It's very instructive. I did consider the 1cm limitation of 2hp. The buttons won't be very helpful, indeed. But since the notes will be coming from the Torso, I don't really mind.

Aside from that, yeah, you're right. There's several pieces missing. The stereo mixer just isn't a good match for a mono system. When in my home studio, I can plug it all into an audio interface and add stereo imaging any way I want to anyway. And you're right - the VCO-filter-effects flow needs a lot of work. I'm playing around with VCV Rack as we speak to learn more about that.

As for the Mantis - I like the suggestion. In the home studio, I have another 3U space for another 84HP for extension. I was considering the ES9 and some stuff I may not always want on the road for that. I built my own racks with that in mind. But I'll reconsider, because I read a lot of positive stuff about the Mantis.

And I have noticed it's probably a good idea to start off with 1 voice and to really understand what combinations and patchings are possible, before upgrading to several more.

Peter.

Hi all,
I've had some exposure to analog synths (1980s-90s), trackers with samples (90s), then took a break and restarted a year ago with a wavetable synth (Argon8x) and several soft synths in Logic (e.g. Sculpture). Because most of this was slow, plodding development of tunes in a DAW or other editor, I'm looking to break it all open and enjoy the unbridled live madness of modular.

I've added a bunch of 2HP oscillators because they take little space, yet seem quite capable. For noise, I went with something a little more flexible. Then there's LFO/EG and some effects. Finally, the Erica Black stereo mixer with PFL so I can hear first, then mix in. Planning on getting some patch-through cables to split the signal into stereo for the mixer.

Hi Arrandan,

have you ever seen an actual eurorack module? you do know that 1hp = 1/5" - 2hp is tiny and the trimmers that they use are not very precise - tuning can be a pain because of this

also putting them next to each other will make them practically unusable...

I'm planning to use this setup with a Torso T-1. I thought I'd need the Bastl 1983 for that, but it seems there's more CV connectivity than I thought. So I guess that one can go. Saves me a pretty penny and 7HP.

I'd like to use this mounted into my racks in my home studio, yet take it out into a portable box when playing elsewhere. Is that doable?

theoretically - but I wouldn't start like that - I'd start with a mantis - yeah it's more expensive - but it will give you the ability to expand and it has significantly better power supply than the b-company - and won't fit in your 19" rack... but it is portable and is probably the best case for starters (hp/cost/quality of power/reputable company)

otherwise you'll be buying more racks in the near future as you realize that you need more modules to do anything interesting and have replaced your 2hp vcos with modules that you can actually play and enjoy using

I wanted to add the JPG here, but it seems like ModularGrid updates that infrequently. So here's the link straight to the rack config.

StarterKit on ModularGrid
-- Arrandan

good you didn't - they're crap for getting help - the link is 1000* better!

ok so you have 3 vcos, but nothing to mix them before hitting the 2 filters - it's kind of a typical subtractive synth concept to mix the 2 identical ones (slightly detuned) - needs a sub-mixer...

all your sound sources and sound modifiers are mono, but your end of chain mixer is expecting stereo inputs - needs a way of panning mono into a stereo field...

sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but if you go and buy this I think you will be seriously disappointed with what you can do with it - at least without buying quite a few more modules & more rack space

I suggest doing a lot more research into modular synthesis - read a good 10-20 newbie threads, of which there are a lot here and then create a new rack which might actually work....

there's a couple of hints in my signature...

Thank you for your kind words. There is more to come, this year.

Thank you everyone for your responses. I'll definitely take into consideration your suggestions, and perhaps I can hold off Arbhar for now (that may come in my next eurorack case or if I upgrade to something bigger down the road).

With Plaits and Rings (and with my external Moogs which I can patch into Hyrlo) it seems I will have more than enough sound sources to work with.

I'll plan out my next purchases and will likely come back again in the future if I have any other questions. Thanks again everyone!

How do you get a store listed as "these sellers may have this module"?

does the 3xmia provide negative offsets as well?
-- fretless19

Yes, because each channel has an attenuverter, and each is normalized to an offset (I think +5V). So when you twist the knob for a channel with no input down below 12:00, you get a negative offset of your choice.

-- plragde

beauty, thank you.

Hi all,
I've had some exposure to analog synths (1980s-90s), trackers with samples (90s), then took a break and restarted a year ago with a wavetable synth (Argon8x) and several soft synths in Logic (e.g. Sculpture). Because most of this was slow, plodding development of tunes in a DAW or other editor, I'm looking to break it all open and enjoy the unbridled live madness of modular.

I've added a bunch of 2HP oscillators because they take little space, yet seem quite capable. For noise, I went with something a little more flexible. Then there's LFO/EG and some effects. Finally, the Erica Black stereo mixer with PFL so I can hear first, then mix in. Planning on getting some patch-through cables to split the signal into stereo for the mixer.

I'm planning to use this setup with a Torso T-1. I thought I'd need the Bastl 1983 for that, but it seems there's more CV connectivity than I thought. So I guess that one can go. Saves me a pretty penny and 7HP.

I'd like to use this mounted into my racks in my home studio, yet take it out into a portable box when playing elsewhere. Is that doable?

I wanted to add the JPG here, but it seems like ModularGrid updates that infrequently. So here's the link straight to the rack config.

StarterKit on ModularGrid

does the 3xmia provide negative offsets as well?
-- fretless19

Yes, because each channel has an attenuverter, and each is normalized to an offset (I think +5V). So when you twist the knob for a channel with no input down below 12:00, you get a negative offset of your choice.

does the 3xmia provide negative offsets as well?

Hi! Thank you for all your reply, especially to @Chace, your thorough explaination with an actual case suggestion was really appreciated.
So, I tried to add a CV processing section to the initial design and a more flexible signal routing picking up on the words of the other two users who commented before.
(Those are minor changes of my initial design, nothing drastic, I know)

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1714557.jpg

Thanks !

VCAs without attenuators have always seemed odd to me, as I always want to attenuate the CV signal. I do understand it's nice when space is limited. How do you typically use them? Do you generally attenuate before with a different module (like with the 321 and Maths, in this particular rack), or just use the full raw CV in some cases (which always feel too crazy for me)?
-- Chace

The raw CV. However, that build version relies on the Doepfer stereo mixer downstream, and the quad VCA module gives you more or less equal amplitudes inputted to the mixer, and at that point you can adjust the audio levels instead of futzing with the CV levels. It's a better gain structure, in the end, and a lot easier to use. So all you do is to feed those with envelopes, etc...the usual VCA modulation suspects...and work with the outputs. No need to attenuate the modulation CVs!

Well, you could build up an entire system out of "primitives", ie: the very basic, mostly single-function modules. This would be as opposed to the "everything in xx hp" approach of the combined type modules. But doing so in Eurorack = Eurorack prices.

My main modular, though, is pretty much ALL "primitives"...an AE system, 180 spaces. And how much does it cost once it's fully-populated? Hmmm...maybe $6k...$7k if you really push it and include the Tektronix lab-grade linear DC supply I use with it. But the neat part is that it then becomes easy to build simulacra of typical complex modules. For example, this has either six complex VCOs when you use the colocated VCAs and mixer (it's sort of like a four oscillator variation on the usual two oscillator architecture) ...or you can just treat those configurations like 24 VCOs, 12 VCAs, and six mixers in other patches. And if you're into prototyping, they even have their "BrAEdboard" module, which puts a proto board right into the modular itself.

The main drawback is that, like Lunetta circuits, etc, these things only work with a 0 - +5V range. But while it might seem like that's a serious problem when it comes to external device interfacing, all you need is one of Soundmachines' Nanobridge boards and you've got incoming CVs and gates/triggers constrained to the proper voltage range. And audio can enter the system via an AE four-channel dedicated I/O module. Plus, you have to work with pinwires instead of the usual sorts of cables...but tbh, this has to have been one of the least-regretted things I've put money into. And while I know Eurorack pretty well and I've got some Eurorack gear here, when I need to do some seriously deep patching, I fire up that Monster From Murnau.

I love it, sounds super clean. I guess the drums are samples from the squid salmple, I love that kick, how are you sequencing it?

Hey @Lugia, thanks for taking the time to poke at the rack!

My thought on the 333 was to have both a buffered mult and unity mixer if wanting to use both Plaits and Twin Waves together for the same voice. That was also the purpose of having the DTM directly after that, but it only has three inputs, hence the 333 before that if wanting to use all five outputs from the Plaits and Twin Waves. It did feel a bit large at 6HP for that purpose though. I could have easily accomplished that in 4HP, or just had a second 4HP mixer and a buff mult at 2HP.

I agree, a Steppy would be better than the RCD, but yeah, not enough space. Glad to still have the Fractio Solum in there though to use with the Doepfer S&H and to sync the Mimeophon.

VCAs without attenuators have always seemed odd to me, as I always want to attenuate the CV signal. I do understand it's nice when space is limited. How do you typically use them? Do you generally attenuate before with a different module (like with the 321 and Maths, in this particular rack), or just use the full raw CV in some cases (which always feel too crazy for me)?

Definitely digging the addition of the PWR Checker and Qx.

Thanks again for the reply!
-Chace

Thanks again for the time and advice. I see months of deep dives in VCV Rack-Land…incredible place to learn…not to mention a solid tool to create perfectly workmanlike wav files to chop up and repurpose.
Now where did I put that tape recorder…

Beautifully done! There are tumeni nice things going on in this patch—really pleasurable listening.

Thanks @wishbonebrewery, the 90s were good times so I'll take it!

Liking it, reminds me of stuff i'd be listening to in the 90's :)

That there is some lovely stuff :)

Thank you very much piragde!
Now I understand how to think.

Still not speaking drone, but many good ideas in this thread and lots of inspiration.

-- Exposure

Perfect. The best way to speak another language is, knowing the basics, to practice it over and over again...
So now, good luck!

If input 2 is at C volts and window size is W volts, the output is high when input 1 is between C-W and C+W.

So for your first example, set input 2 to 4V and window size to 1V to get a range of 3V to 5V.

For your second example, set input 2 to 1.5V and window size to 1.5V to get a range of 0V to 3V (or adjust as needed if you want the range to start at a negative voltage).

EDITED Feb 15th 2022, 16:59

I have problems understanding my Metabolic Devices 2Win.
If input 2 is at 3v and window size is 1v the output gets high when input 1 is between 2v and 4v.
But how do I get a high output only if input 1 is higher than for example 3v?
And the opposite: a high output only if input 1 is lower than 3v?

And just in case 5 minutes of this isn't enough for you (it isn't for me) I made some changes to the patch for added betterness, like fading the three voices in and out at different rates which adds a needed element of dynamics. I let it run largly on its own for 30 minutes. It's strangely relaxing. Cheers!

=d4e3b93232104757b32e2e82f8b7caf2&utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharing

All of the suggestions so far are good (particularly swapping in a Versio for the Arbhar, as the Versio can serve any number of roles depending on what you need).

Ochd would be a wonderful addition to a case of this size.

Hey guys, beware of user @Buzzz - he ripped me off.

His name is Pascal Alexandrou (aka Paschalis Alexandrou), he’s from Greece and his email/paypal is ***@gmail.com

https://www.instagram.com/pascalalexandrou/

He sent me a glitchy RXMX module, even though I asked him two times to confirm if all knobs were working without issues. I agreed to send back the module for a refund but once he got the module back (on 24th January) he went silent and basically stole 450 € from me. I tried to contact him several times over the course of a few weeks via E-mail, PM and Whatsapp but no answer.

There have been problems with this guy before further up in the thread so beware of this email and name since he seems to be changing his usernames.

EDITED Sep 27th 2022, 15:18

I think you meant 'populated' not 'polluted', but it gave me a laugh - seriously don't let that discourage you though - your English is OK - better than my German would be, at least without google translate!
-- JimHowell1970

Don't bother, i had a big laugh aswell when reading your comment. I try to keep my rack celan and tidy, not polluting it

Thanks for the input on the o_C

I checked a lot of modules, manuals, other racks here but i never had an closer look to the O_c.
This could really be a nice thing but i think i'm only understanding half of the available functions.
It's very multi-purpose but it looks more apealing than the disting, i really like the content on the screen.

I'm not 100% set but i think i'll give it a try.

N.B. the namesake of the module "Ornament & Verbrechen" is a really clever essay - to much ornament is poluting things

you mention what you are using for sequencing, but not the pico seq... I've got one - I use it for sequencing song parts on Sinfonion - and only for that - I find the lack of a dedicated reset button/jack a real pain... what are your thoughts about it?

cheers
Jim
-- JimHowell1970

the pico-seq was my first module with the pico-voice.
I use the random function quite a lot for pitch, but it's great for cv also.
The interface is a little bit fiddly but with some practice i'm doing well with dialing in some simple baselines.
For faster stuff, bleeps and bloinks i use the random, wich is very musical to my ears.
Sometimes i also miss a dedicated reset button, on the other side i'm really good in stopping a patch on the last note of the sequence. The seq is also great for me as a neewbie to figure stuff out (e.g. scales, wich C) and to jam away instantly within everythin in the rack. When i dont use it for pitch it's modulating stuff. Great module!

Thank you so far!

Smart contact and good transaction with @zoumaz
Merci François !

As for gear, use filters and EQs, so when particular bands of frequencies stars to clash you can start carving. Don't be afraid of cutting low end, nor high ends. Let pass only what is "beautiful", instead of boosting.

-- dadodetres

Thanks for the wonderful advice. In fact I was wondering about filters use in drones, most of the time the talk seems to be about oscillators and tuning, which I get is the most important part for drones, but not that much about filters. In fact, I've been trying out some of the techniques proposed so far and I'm enjoying a lot using the LR4 Crossover, I just send each output to different parts of the system and turning a knob introduces interesting changes.

Still not speaking drone, but many good ideas in this thread and lots of inspiration.

Definitely not "the one". However...

Now THAT'S "the one". What's going on here is that I first changed the order from right->left to left->right...makes it easier for me to build, and you can flip this back to the R->L one.

Then, after the uZeus, there's now an actual modulation section. Four freerun LFOs, four loopable AR envelope gens. The huge Doepfer quad VCO got turned into a Studio Electronics Quadnic. Then Veils serves as your modulation amplitude control and mixing (yeah, I even had room for VCAs here, too!), your Wasp is next, then the FSU. And for output AND your headphone preamp, a Befaco OUT v.3 which also has stereo balanced TRS outs, and a patchable cue send.

The big takeaway here is that while these little skiffs are really a total PITA to build, it CAN be done...but you have to be careful about module sizes in order to be able to fit all of the functionality you want. Well...provided it's not something that requires buttloads of modules, that is. By tossing the Doepfer Quad VCO and Maths (which took up 38 hp between them...in a 60 hp skiff) and being careful about module selection with regard to both function AND ergonomics, this opened the build up sufficiently for all of the new toys.

And the bonus? It only costs $22 more than your original build! Not too shabby...

Overall, I think I need to take a breath and ask what I really want out of all this. As it stands, I want a place to make intricate backdrops for louder stories to be layered on top. what I’m getting at is that I may be asking too little for a world of options and criteria that demands as much as it does from the player.
-- brownbureau

Well, we have a fix for that, too. And it's called VCV Rack. Basically, VCV is a Eurorack emulator...and it's even accurate to the point of having the same "tons-o-fun" module complement (somewhere upwards of 2000 of 'em) that we're used to here. I and most everyone else here recommends this to those who've not had much/any modular experience, as this software behaves very much like (and in the case of VCV modules from manufacturers on MG, extremely much like) the hardware devices.

https://vcvrack.com/ And the price is right, too...FREE! True, the versions with VST integration and the like cost money, but the basic VCV Rack costs zip. Spend some quality time with this, then when you come back to hardware modular, you'll be on a much better informational footing.

One other thing worth taking a look through: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_series_(music) This contains several super-useful tables that show not only the pitches that happen via the harmonic series, but the retunings necessary to translate the pitches into actual harmonic values. And that math is important to drone works, as you'll want the harmonic tunings instead of the equal tempered ones since the harmonic tunings play off of the series that starts with your drone's "root". Bit of a PITA in hardware, to be sure...but back in the day when I was still singing in choral ensembles, when we had music from the proper period, we would instinctively retune everything note-per-note. And it worked...mainly because equal temperament is a "recent" invention, and when singing something prior to, say, 1700, we'd always tune for that harmonic "blend". With the voice, this is pretty simple (and a bit instinctual, too), but if you want to do this on hardware instruments, you've got to know the retunings and/or ratios.

Please note the digital dickery done to the URL above by the syntax. "series" should be followed by underlines, which MG's forum thinks are "italic" indicators. Silly server, no Pocky.

EDITED Feb 15th 2022, 04:22

You could definitely have some fun with this bad boy, no need for a mult from what I can tell though, I'd add an HPO to make life simpler.

Might be the one ☝️

I need to slow down and focus on mastering what I have.
-- sacguy71

Yeah fair enough, I have to do that too

Oscillators, Noise and LFOs, filters and effects, lots of things feeding into other things and amounts of things fed around via the Matrix mixer.

Playing with the ideas found here by Anthurium

EDITED Feb 14th 2022, 22:25

For power groups, I just have a "Power Check Rack" for each power group. Basically I just setup 3 rack skiffs, one for each power group, and keep it updated every time I do a redesign.

Hi Gaz, well... you know... actually...
And you’re a really wonderful guy... but...
(Ahem)