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You could get two Antumbra DVCAs and chain them together with the jumpers on the back, that's Veils in 8hp
-- milkmilklemonade

Nice idea. If you chain them, since they'd be 4 VCAs does that make them cascade to the next input (etc)?

The newer Veils or two chained Antumbra DVCAs would be my choice as well (and is, I have them both).

Hello!

I'm trying to think through a generative system for a Doepfer A-100 P9 9U case. This is what I had in mind:

In/out: Joranalogue Recieve 2, Happy Nerding Isolator.
Sources: Doepfer A-111-4, Tiptop Buchla 258t; Tiptop Buchla 266t.
Computer/FX: Ornaments and Crime, Happy Nerding FX AID XL
Modifiers: Joranalogue Contour 1, Joranalogue Filter 8, Happy Nerding MMM VCF, Xaoc Zadar/NIN, Intellijel Plog, Mutable Instruments Stages.
Modulators: Xaoc Batumi/Poti, Ladik L-121, Joranalogue Compare 2, Mannequins Cold Mac.
Utilities: Intellijel Scales, Doepfer A-130-2 Dual VCA, Dopefer A-135-2 Quad VCA/Mixer, Intellijel Quad VCA, Mutable Instruments Veils, Schenktronics Attenuverter, ALM PNW/Pexp, Doepfer A-151 Sequential switch, Happy Nerding PanMix Jr.

I'd love some feedback. My plan is to have the rack be complimented by external gear (such as the Arturia Minibrute 2s - 4 sequencers, 2 lfos, an extra VCA and an inverter), but would still like the rack to be a largely self-sufficient system. Am I heading in the right direction? Any functions or utilities that I'm overlooking? Any modules I should switch out because there are better, more readily available options?

Thanks so much in advance!

You could get two Antumbra DVCAs and chain them together with the jumpers on the back, that's Veils in 8hp

yeah - veils is great - and mutable product support is outstanding - unfortunately it's 10hp - so 2hp over what the OP wants - but probably worth making the space for!

the older veils has been discontinued for nearly 2 years - the new one, veils (2020), saves 2hp and adds a couple of features, including offsets and sliders!

sounds like your instincts are reasonably good then...

take a look at and think about the formula in my signature - it's a quick and dirty, rough guide to getting the most versatility out of a modular for the least expense

Thanks for the feedback. I thought so a bit.. hehehe....
I need to revisit this system a bit more.

It was a headphones thing this morning with a pair of AKG k175's that are pretty bassy, think I would have woke the wife! Thanks guys :)

Thanks! Me too haha. I should mention that the resonance on the Modcan Multimode Filter was cranked all the way up, that was an important component of the sound.

EDITED Feb 20th 2022, 14:47

Very cool. I really liked that kick.

+1 to basically everything Jim said.
What about this:

I got rid of the scope and Clouds clone, added a better mixing option, attenuverters, some plumbing, and changed the layout to be a little more logical in the signal flow department. That leaves you with 26hp open. Cover that with blank panels until you play around with everything and start to realize what you really need. Saves a bit of money from your original design too.
Just a suggestion on how I would approach this. Have fun!

*Edit: Also, I think there is a newer version of Veils that could save you a few more hp. Not sure about availability of the newer one vs. the older one in Australia though.

EDITED Feb 20th 2022, 14:30

I can recommend the veils vca

Thanks! The drum sound was:

Doepfer A-111-3 (triangle LFO) -> Abyss Devices Saevitus -> Modcan Multimode Filter (lowpass) -> DIY Veils (for some amplification) -> Sketchy Labs Freak Shift -> DPW MoG -> Metasonix RK4. For the basic drum sound, the Freak Shift and MoG were dry/"off", but they still significantly affected the tone for one reason or another.

I added in the Abyss Devices Saevitum -> Happy Nerding FX Aid XL (Peak compression algo) later in the track when the drum sound is distorted.

too many sound sources - so completely unbalanced - especially with the massive sequencer
no filters
poor mixing solution
no real vcas
no mixing for cv
no utilities
no control

black panel maths are near unobtanium - maybe you can find a replacement panel...

it's not just Australia - module supply can be erratic at the best of times and the pandemic has made it worse, everywhere - but I wouldn't worry too much - start with an absolute minimum and add modules as and when and only after you thoroughly understand the modules you already have and how they interact

things I would note - some of the modules will be unusable in their current positions

I'd go with 2 fx aids, the dsp2 takes up a huge amount of space - which could be better used for other things

look at your mixing again: the eoc mixer is 4 stereo ins and there are no panning - all your sound sources are mono - or dual mono

not convinced about the unity mixers - I'd want some control

beads or typhoon - I wouldn't have both in this size rack

tbh probably too many voices in too small a case...

Yeah, man! Interesting tones. What were you using for the kick drum?

Sounds like intravenous electricity. I'm digging it.

That’s wild! I hope you had that cranked. :-) Cheers!

Good day modular people.

I would like to know what you think of this setup?

I am going for a techno live performance case.

Is there some things i am missing? Do i have as well enough utilities to run this beast?

Hope to hear some feedback, will be much appreciated.

Thanks

Headphones recommended, but its all a bit hectic!

Weirdness, after watching a patch video by @Anthurium VCO's Noise, LFO's, I found to get some of the effect that Anthurium was getting I had to put the VCO signals through a pre-amp before mixing, then found that feeding the VCO's a negative offset to drive them slower than the knob settings.
Its all a bit gritty and mental to be honest!

The vid I was following

I'm looking at various options for Quad VCAs (or similar VCAs in 8hp or under - as an example Happy Nerding's 3 x VCA). Anyhow, I saw the Malekko Quad VCA (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/malekko-heavy-industry-quad-vca-black-panel) which looks really interesting but I can't seem to find much feedback from people about this module. The only thing that comes up is that Malekko, as a company, isn't very user friendly in replying to peoples mails.

So, if you see this thread, and have the module, maybe you can tell me what you think?

Thanks in advance.

p.s. I forgot to say, the black panel isn't of any importance - can be silver.

EDITED Feb 20th 2022, 07:44

New modular track, hot off the presses:

i wish had the space/place to be building DYIs....

but I've been working on a revamp set of units .. ...
it seems a lot of what i was originally after is hard to get in Australia @ the moment, due access to overseas supply.
so im going on availability now ...

can you have a look over it and see if its more balanced ..
i know i've got a couple odd bits but I'm trying to think out of the box.!

cheers
BB

P.S i really appreciate the time/ knowledge you are imparting in my direction.. thanks again...

You should keep the Neutron in its own case, giving you room for support modules which you will need.

How have you patched the Dot and the Black Sequencer? I don't have either, but I don't see a way of doing what you want to do with just these two modules. The BS expects a regular clock and has only one Gate In. With a VCA, you could drop out notes from the BS on low gate from the other Dot channel. Other sequencers would let you use a Dot channel as an irregular clock, but mostly only one channel, not two. It might make more sense to use the Dot separately on percussive voices, and the BS on melodic ones.

If you want to combine two or more audio signals, then, yes, you will need a mixer (perhaps more than one, depending on what you want to do), and there are many possibilities. The µJack is discontinued, but Intellijel makes the Outs module, and again there are other possibilities. I have personal experience with the ALM HPO and Befaco Out v3, and like both.

There are more modules you are likely to need, but it might be best to start using these while you keep doing research. Through use you may discover things you want to do and can look for ways to accomplish them.

I don't have a neutron but...

the normalised (default) path should be something like vco -> sub-mixer -> vca -> vcf or vc0 -> sub-mixer -> vcf -> vca

saying that the obvious place to take your output from is the output labelled 'output'...

where are you trying to take your signal from?

maybe check the cutoff on the vcf...

My goal is to use the neutron and/or another synth like the Behringer Model D as my sound source(s) sequenced by the Black Seq which would be triggered by the Dnipro Dot to play rhythmically. I’ll then want to feed the sound sources into the dual fx for some reverb and delay which I’d then like to output into headphones or my audio interface to record into my DAW.

Let’s say I wanted to sequence osc 1 and osc 2 of the Neutron separately to the Black Seq CV1 and CV2 and basically have channel 1 and 2 of Black Sequencer triggered separately by Dnipro Dot. What would be the best way to go about this? Are there any additional modules needed to achieve this? At the moment, I’m only hearing one or the other triggered by the Dot for some reason. Perhaps I have it patched incorrectly.

If I wanted to sequence the Model D and Neutron, then would I need an audio/cv mixer? I assume I need something to sum the two signals together into one output so I could then patch into FX and then an audio interface module of some sort.

What module would you suggest for tracking into my DAW and listening through headphones? I was looking at something like the Intellijel μJack. Would you suggest any better alternatives?

Grateful for any help I could get!

-- Avesta

Black sequencer only has a clock input - so you can clock it from the dni pro and then use the internal per channel dividers to advance the sequences in the black sequencer - tbh, the dni pro is a bit superfluous in this set up - the black sequencer is very capable of doing all sorts of things - gate length per step, tieing notes/gates and playing different channels at different speeds etc

if you think you have it patched incorrectly maybe you could describe the patch - or better yet illustrate it in modulargrid - so we can take a look

mixer - just get a decent end of chain mixer that has send/return and headphones as part of the package

this way you can mix the original signals from the semis and layer in as much of the fx as you want - at the lower end a tesseract tex-mix master and 4*mono channels would probably work quite well - otherwise something like es9, which @sacguy71 suggested would can do the trick of both mixer and audio interface

most 1/2 decent modern audio interfaces should be able to cope with slightly attenuated modular level signals - so just a matter of watching your gain staging - levels not too high anywhere - and you should be fine to go straight into the audio interface from the mixers stereo outs

if you don't already have an audio interface (and want an external one instead of the es9) - go for one with at least 4 outputs - 2 for monitoring (these are usually copied to the headphone outs too) and 2 for sending audio back out to the modular - otherwise if you want to send audio back to the modular you won't be able to monitor through the audio interface - which may or may not be an issue for you, now, but next week it might be...

nb with the es9 - some people have issues on windows apparently, so if you're running windows you might want to do a bit more research than just simply reading the manual - works perfectly on macs from what I hear...

A few suggestions:

1. Remove the Neutron from the case it takes up precious HP and better modules can be used for it on the side. You can chain the Neutron out of case.

2. Get a larger case at least a 12u or 14u case better. If you need compact, the smallest I would get would be something like a Doepfer 9u suitcase.

3. You want lots of support modules like VCAs, attenuators, sequential switch, matrix mixer, logic will really be central to a basic modular system.

4. The book Patch and Tweak is a must to beginners. It really helped me as a total beginner two years ago.

5. You need a good matrix mixer for what you want to do.

To do what you want also get a clock module like Pamela new workout. Having a central clock module will let you sync up the Dnipro dot and Black Sequencer and have more options like logic and so forth.

For sending audio out of the modular and into a DAW, you need either a eurorack mixer and audio interface OR you need to get a module like Expert Sleeper's CV to MIDI/USB interface to convert CV to line audio levels. Expert Sleeper's ES-9 module would do this for you. Actually I need to get one for my Doepfer monster case eventually as well.

I’m a beginner in the world of eurorack hoping to get some advice on my newly acquired setup here. My knowledge of eurorack terminology and the module functions are very low, so please excuse my ignorance.

My goal is to use the neutron and/or another synth like the Behringer Model D as my sound source(s) sequenced by the Black Seq which would be triggered by the Dnipro Dot to play rhythmically. I’ll then want to feed the sound sources into the dual fx for some reverb and delay which I’d then like to output into headphones or my audio interface to record into my DAW.

Let’s say I wanted to sequence osc 1 and osc 2 of the Neutron separately to the Black Seq CV1 and CV2 and basically have channel 1 and 2 of Black Sequencer triggered separately by Dnipro Dot. What would be the best way to go about this? Are there any additional modules needed to achieve this? At the moment, I’m only hearing one or the other triggered by the Dot for some reason. Perhaps I have it patched incorrectly.

If I wanted to sequence the Model D and Neutron, then would I need an audio/cv mixer? I assume I need something to sum the two signals together into one output so I could then patch into FX and then an audio interface module of some sort.

What module would you suggest for tracking into my DAW and listening through headphones? I was looking at something like the Intellijel μJack. Would you suggest any better alternatives?

Grateful for any help I could get!

Not yet.... but I'll look into it

@wishbonebrewery - are you using favourites? I think one of the main reasons that you're having to consult the manual every time you use it - is that you're trying to use it for too many things... yes it can do lots, but as with everything often less is more!

you don't need a mutant brain for a BSP to talk to a modular - it's got cv/gate/velocity and trigger outputs already...

I would recommend a lot more research and thinking before spending any money - a couple of pointers:

in the first iteration - Pams can do euclidean - so not a lot of point with the euclidean circles too

in the second there's a melodic quantizer - scales, but no melodic voice or vco to use it to send quantized pitch to... and only the scales for pitch sequencing - I'd get frustrated with this...

how are you mixing? sub mixing before filters/effects and end of chain? ok I see the cockpit2 - but that's not really going to do a satisfactory job - spend some time thinking about how all the voices and effects will interact... are any stereo? do some mono sources need panning into a stereo field? no mixing for cv...

no vcas... why would you want/not want these?

I'd rather have a second fx aid than a pico dsp - awkward size 3hp and less versatile - but I don't think you need it, anyway...

take out everything except what you absolutely need and then add back slowly, justifying precisely why you want/need every module - ie do I need this and why?

take a look at my signature and ask yourself why? you've got way too many sound modifiers and possibly modulation sources - not a balanced rack even for a percussion rack - & I'm not sure that's 100% what you're after here - seems more confused than anything else

personally I would buy originals where possible...

they generally have better ergonomics and I prefer to give my money to original designers - after all they did most of the work - plus Emilie has been fantastic with support when I've needed it - and I think that they'll probably hold their value a bit better and be a bit easier to sell in the future, if the need ever arises

I generally think eurorack modules are small enough without shrinking them further and using trimmers instead of proper pots/knobs - as they are more difficult to use/less precise - but then I've got my average cost of racks down to under £1/hp - by DIYing cases and power supplies - so I don't care that much about rack space (and I've got quite a bit left over) - might need an extra power supply at some point - but that's not much - and I might buy a second mantis - which will put the average price up a bit...

I've got quite a few mutable instruments modules, but saying that I've also DIYed a few and have some left in my backlog - but they are all full size or bigger in a couple of cases - and personally I'm not keen on small smd soldering - especially electrolytic capacitors! so I doubt I'll buy anymore once I've finished the ones I have

Im a bit stumped as to how I should be patching the neutron whilst mounted in my system, in order to have a default signal path that includes the vcf. I'm trying to work out if I have a faulty unit, as vca-vcf-output exhibits strange behaviour, seemingly being influenced/influencing the lfo. Does anyone have any experience with a racked neutron, and any tips regarding where I may be going wrong in terms of path? Sorry for the noobery but I was hoping someone could shed some light on this for me. Thanks!

This is a great ambient patch! Too short! :-)

I would suggest that you stick to the original Mutable Instruments modules. The micro builds make tweaking significantly less fun. I have a Peaks clone, and it's a little frustrating. The original MI builds may be larger, but that real estate is valuable in use. The MI modules likely won't cost you much more than the clones either. That's my experience, anyway.
-- farkas

yeah.. fair point....

ill work on a new lay out... with some different units, and you guys can tell me what ya think..!!

cheers
BB

link to new lay out..
got rid of some stuff as you guys recommended..

EDITED Feb 19th 2022, 13:15

Good contact and fine transaction with @Basic_Dimension
Merci Jérôme !

I would suggest that you stick to the original Mutable Instruments modules. The micro builds make tweaking significantly less fun. I have a Peaks clone, and it's a little frustrating. The original MI builds may be larger, but that real estate is valuable in use. The MI modules likely won't cost you much more than the clones either. That's my experience, anyway.

I have a Rackbrute 6U. In facts, it has 89hp by row (instead of 88). The power unit takes 5 hp.
-- ClaudeP

You’re right. But, please, that little extra hp in each row (one up and one down) must remain a secret! And it could have been a nice surprise for @davidkcolman, especially for his modules... You shouldn't try to fill those 2 small spaces: they allow for better ventilation. I have three RackBrute 6U. They are beautiful and smart :)

I find it generally a pain in the arse, I have to get the manual out almost every time I need to set a different mode! Not to mention the 0-4 parameter settings and a very 'techie' manual to confuse my tiny brain, it reads like algebra :)

Other opinions are available, and I wouldn't kick it out of my rack

Tune is handy.
Noise is good.
Stereo Tape Delay is rather good.
Anything from the Sample Player section.
Full wave rectifier is a good thing to have.
Slew rate limiter good to have.

Looking to put my first rack together. I'm looking to do some exploring around generative/chaos patterns and would like to avoid menu diving (DATA is for visual feedback, mk4 because it seems worth it given the functionality/cost).

I have a Beatstep Pro that I'd like to hookup and compliment or drive parts of the modular, thus Mutant Brain.

My plan is to stick to a 7u case, so naturally I found the widest semi-portable case I could at 126hp. https://www.mdlrcase.com/eurorack-case-7u-126hp-performer-series-pro/

This is what I'm thinking to get started:

This is how I would fill the rack, today, if I had to:

What am I missing? Which modules would you swap out?

I have a Rackbrute 6U. In facts, it has 89hp by row (instead of 88). The power unit takes 5 hp.

thanks Jim,

i've also been looking at some of the clones of "mutable instruments" that After Later Audio make..
have you any advice.. ?

I have a grandmother,mother 32,DFAM and Subharmonicon so am looking for useful bits to use with these.

@JimHowell1970 I put my modules into categories to match your formula to sense check what I have.

I know some modules will cross multiple categories but I've tried to align them to their main intended use:

Utility (16): (incl. 4 clock/trigger)
Pico Trigger, Plog, SumDif, Fractio Solum, SL3KT, 2hp VCA, Ears, 3x MIA, Links, DOT, Shades (2020), Veils (2020), Disting mk4, Ornament and Crime, RND STEP, Shuttle Control

Modulation (12): (incl. 4 pitch sequencing)
Contour, 2hp ADSR, Mimetic Digitalis, Marbles, Tides, 8S, Varigate 4+, Quadrax, Qx, Catalyst Expander, Catalyst, Muxlicer, TILT, ochd

Sound modification (10): (incl. 4 filters)
tanh[3], Miasma, Ripples (2020), Morgasmatron, Freez, Bifold, Beads, FX AID XL, Jumble Henge, Squawk Dirty To Me

Sound source (6):
Pico DRUMS, Twin waves, Plaits, Rings, arbhar, arbhar expander, Godspeed

I'm also considering dropping the lubadh from the target system and seeing what matrix mixer and additional logic might fit in the 22hp that gives back... I can always consider replacing something else with the lubadh later maybe..

cool - I'm not expecting anything that great - I just sometimes want to use a crash or ride or rimshot - everything else I have covered already - I can always do them in Logic anyway... but I'd like to be able to have them on tap...

I tried all of the drum algorithms, a few were very good but most I felt were better served by the Pico drum, or the octatrack. I never really intended to build a drum machine I always intended to layer the modular over the Octatrack drum samples... The Pico drum just lets me ignore the octatrack if I want to play around and do something basic .. and with the fractio solum it can do some very bizarre and fun things

patch programming!!!! it won't grab you until you try it...

Isn't that still achievable using multiple modules?

kind of - but it's also intrinsic to the module itself - which is important - self-patch-programming

yeah, I'd say most of the time its being used for the tape delay when it isn't sound recording, I've barely used any of its other functions! (then I got the fx aid and took some of the pressure off of it)

I have an fx aid xl - if igorrr ever gets round to the proposed xxl version (with a screen) I might buy another - and upgrade the one I have - don't like the algo swapping - so it's constantly in lofi mode!

Ive only just moved off of the stock config, but again I need to spend more time exploring what I can do with it.

I'm not in a rush to buy anything new at the moment, I've lots to learn about what I have!

that's good - I'm trying to persuade myself not to buy a crucible - and just to buy the components I need for my DIY backlog - or at least some of it... and go back and debug a few that don't work too well... and update my fx aid - to add the drum algos - really want crash, ride (& rimshot, not covered by the crucible) - but 1 at a time recording - rather than building everything and multi-tracking at once is a pita...