User Posts

It is amusing to note that, so far, the subject seems intriguing without eliciting any comments or reflections on it. Yet several bridges link the world of modular to that of artificial intelligence applied to music :

• The use of random.
• The self generative capacity.
• The integration of computer science, at least in digital modules.
• A common and progressive appearance in the Music of the 20th century.
• A remarkable shared development at the beginning of this 21st century.
• A strong potential for innovation, and even for mutual articulation...

I still have this beautiful reflection by Brian Eno on the subject of computers and sequencers that comes to mind, and which, I think, applies equally to these two worlds:

"The great benefit of computer sequencers is that they remove the issue of skill, and replace it with the issue of judgement.

With Cubase or Photoshop, anybody can actually do anything, and you can make stuff that sounds very much like stuff you’d hear on the radio, or looks very much like anything you see in magazines.

So the question becomes not whether you can do it or not, because any drudge can do it if they’re prepared to sit in front of the computer for a few days, the question then is, "Of all the things you can now do, which do you choose to do?".

I read in this Forum dozens of topics related to the choice of modules or the correct configuration of a setup. I am not saying that these questions are not interesting, on the contrary. I notice that the best answers, and by the best of us (I don't quote names, we'll recognize them) refer us most often to this same question from Eno: "Of all the things you can now do, which do you choose to do?

Is there any musician here for a comment, or even an answer to the initial question?

An amusing but legitimate question...
Mutable Instruments: sober, almost zen, well-proportioned and ergonomic. Like their manual by the way.

@farkas
Happy birthday! And thanks for your good, direct and sincere work!

Av3ry. Not really modular, just some 'next-door neighbour'... :)
What do you think of this? As a musician, and particularly as a modular musician, what is your opinion or feeling?

'Av3ry is an AI program and a virtual persona, who is composing music, communicating with people and learning from interactions. The main component is the on-demand conversation and art generation of the bot. (...)' - Audiobulb Records.

More information here: http://av3ry.net

@farkas
It is an excellent initiative to have described the concept that guides your music and video production.
Thank you already for that.
Moreover, I think this line is particularly coherent and brilliant.
Happy man. So many creations lack that support of reason that opens the doors to creative expression.
And the result here is (still) very, very good.

You're right. Cv modulation brings life to patches. May I suggest to you those two well thought and affordable modules: Ochd (LFOs) and Rnd Step (S&Hs) by DivKid.
We only have 2 hands. They give us 14 more within 8hp :))

Among my first sparks for modular (and a new form of collaboration) there was this jam session. I felt in love with modular because I saw the ideal complement to my traditional synths and opportunities for live improvisations jams. Berlin school is great for that. Enjoy:

It all depends on your musical goals.
Random and quantizing was important for me, so I first got Marbles (quantized random), then Bloom (opposite way).
And after a while, deeper 'ADN cooking' with URA plus Rnd Step, and... (the winner is :) ADDAC207, the solid choice.

It took me several months to discover (YouTube and forums), buy (Money, desperately a big key: 'That's What I Want', 'It's a gas', etc.), and learn (Manuals). And I'm still learning, and still resolutely don't want any traditional sequencer in my modular.

We must choose tools for the music we want to listen to.
So truly, which kind of music do you plan to ear from yourself?
The answer will be there. I'm not saying anything new...

PS: l use µMidi for Midi clock. Perfect.

@baltergeist
The aesthetic dimension is important. Regardless of the standards we have, our pleasure is visual too.
For example, please take a look at this page: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-most-beautiful-electric-guitar-ever-made, some are stunning. And you could easily find the same thing for pianos or harpsichords...

@sacguy71
Welcome in our 'wacky' universe, sacguy71. And yep, modular is fun. From the very beginning, and at each stage of our endless learning.
I saw your 'First patch Doepfer A100 Basic System' on YouTube too... a historical document!
A two notes primal loop caught out in a nearly total darkness :) Lovely.
I should have shoot my own first patch too... One thousand regrets.
Please keep yours forever!

@Moanerette
Many thanks for entrusting these feelings and words to us.
You're nearly talking of your instrument in the same way as one talks about somebody he or she loves. I share the same kind of relation with some of my instruments: my modular, my piano, and I should say my whole home studio. It's like a second family, born 40 years ago.

There is no shame or loss when a violinist talk this way about his violin, particularly about some great or rare instruments. And I think a modular setup is to become as unique, special and personal (even private). The level of customization makes the rarity. Just as everyone is unique.

Although, fortunately (if I may say so), they have not the rarity and the price of the 'Vieuxtemps' Guarneri violin (you can take a look at this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vieuxtemps_Guarneri), but our 'modest' modulars are for most of us unique and quite pricey...

Price of love? Surely for the sounds and the musics we can make with them.
Anyway, in the end we are very lucky willing victims, because we are definitely music lovers, not only technicians. Aren't we?

Please watch this video: the violinist Joshua Bell is talking about his instrument.
You will find the same feelings. It's even amazing to hear him saying the same words we use, and the same experience we share with our modular.

About the DFAM: it's a mighty and innovative synth!
I was more impressed by this module (or semi) than by the M32. DFAM is a world in itself. But I still tend to play it sometimes in a too much traditional way. You know, the first reflex to use it as an ordinary drum machine...

And here, thanks again to your post, you've chosen a right and nice word '...integrating... (my DFAM and rack)'. It's another answer to that thread. The pleasure of 'patching': ok, this freedom is tremendous. But beyond, 'integrating' is a better word because a more accurate point of view. I mean for producing an organic and living ensemble starting from solitary and inert pieces.

Creating life, that's all we looking for. And for this culmination, love is the key.

Will you publish the fruit of that night of love?
I would sincerely be pleased to hear it.

Nice tribute to Florian Schneider.

Discovering your works published in Bancamp, a special mention for 'Kapital'.
Do you know the Mode Machines ADX-1? It is not a modular drum but an analogue drum expander. I finally got one and I think it could fit with your style. Wonderful tones and a lot of modulations in the box.

Love this!
Minimalist, essential, no decorating superfluous kind of stucco melodies around.

This track (and the birds in the video) reminds me an 'old thing' I did a few years ago.
May I introduce to you the glorious and glitchy 'Vorwerk Chicken'!

No modular at that time.
Btw, DFAM and Basimilus involved in your 'Trees And' I suppose?

Cheers!

@defragmenteur
@GarfieldModular
...and Hi again Everybody!

'You can never have enough'. I don't know when and were it appears for the first time on the modular planet (apparently talking about Vcas), but it has always sounded to me like a vacuous statement or worst, an advertising slogan: 'You can never have enough' clamps, guarantees, smoked salmon, or whatever!.. And curiously, this has met a great success in this community.

This is quite funny because at the same time it is proclaimed loud and clear in music making that 'Less is more'...

Shall we eventually hear 'You can never ever get enough less for more'?
Sort of Woody Allen assertion :)

Well, I use OCHD for a few months, and had the chance to receive last week the brand new RND STEP by DivKid and SSF (a random module in the same vein as OCHD).

We all know that DivKid is an excellent reviewer. But he is also a very clever and a rather visionary man. Obviously, Ben has understood a lot of fundamental modularist requirements. Less Hps, reasonable price (though RND STEP is a bit more expensive than OCHD and Mutes), the need for easy to use but strong modulation tools, and of course a well-known and appreciated signature.

We can notice that he didn't choose to begin with innovative oscillators or samplers, no more with delays or reverbs. He worked on simple but proper tools that BRINGS LIFE... 'To bring life': another common expression, but this time, a really major concern in modular music. Because bringing life is exactly in the DNA of modular synthesis and a permanent quest of every modularist.

Nearly 10000 Eurorack modules according to ModularGrid...
Probably enough, and we should need more DivKids to 'Clean up the mess!' ;)

Low-level night flight over the sea. Thanks for this journey!

Interesting thread!
And thanks to Chaos215bar2 (what a lovely name :) for having posted his comment and making rise the subject again.

'...I'll pause videos just to stop and work out what's going on (and look at what modules they're using), and videos with cables going offscreen the whole time are a big turn off for me...' (chaos215bar2).
Same method... and print screens, and notes :))

Ok, I need to think a bit before returning with something useful here... See you soon.

Ambient has become such a wide concept nowadays... But the importance of space (by means of depth and panning) seems to remain quite constant. So, if this can help, two remarks:

Beyond uBurst/Clouds and some Disting algorithms (Btw I do approve Defragmenteur), it seems to lack of reverb/delay, or some more sophisticated fx here. Do you plan to use any pedals (blueSky, Afterneath, etc.) or other external fx?

How do you mix? External gear? Software? So about panning: same questions... But a little stereo mixer inside the rack (I personally use a Doepfer A-138s including for control signals) could be a convenient submixer in any way.

I do use a lot of BlackMarket cables: inexpensive, wide range of colors, easy to plug, never had a problem.
On the other hand Tiptop stackables: great quality, some helpful long length (up to 350cm), but regularly a bit hard to plug/unplug.

@baltergeist
You're right. We have to be both. And I must admit that the concluding question was a bit provocative.
As if I'd stopped playing in the middle of the field, asking 'Hey! What the mess, where is the goal?' And beyond: 'What's our craft? What are we living for? Music, sounds or instruments and techniques?'

Modulargrid and the module I will order next month (an ADDAC 207) are surely amazing tools. But this thread was done to evoke the reasons for our common passion: our common interest for the chairs, not the planers.

Music lovers: we all know it's tough to talk about love sometimes :)
So, thanks for your remark, baltergeist.

@Lugia
George Szell, the Cleveland Orchestra and Rudolf Serkin in the Brahm's 1st Piano Concerto... Oh bliss!
Sincerely pleased to discuss with a connoisseur of classical music and a true modular expert at the same time.

'...such a musically-rich period...'
Same opinion, but with a little shade: I tend to compare the current period with the Middle-Ages followed by the Renaissance: development of polyphony, beginning of modern music notation, plethora of instruments, and a QUEST FOR A NEW WORLD...

'...most music we hear now technically IS "electronic" by default...'
I totally agree with you. And it's a too neglected observation. Many musical genres are indebted to the invention of 'Recording'. Jazz music is partly a children of this decisive technical turning point. And Sergent Pepper himself said that he still confirms this point of view :)

Modularists benefit from the same intake.
We are the Modularists Lonely Hearts Club Band, looking for Lucy...

A simply factual observation: this thread, 'What do you love (or prefer) about modular', totals at that moment 252 views and 9 participants (and thanks to them, 16 posts).
252 views, 9 participants.
3 or 4 percent...

Is modularist community overwhelmingly a nation of music lovers or technicians?

@Lugia
Very interesting real life examples of those everlasting questions about art and technical means: 'Should I retain or break the common rules?', 'Should I use or dismiss instruments and tools I could use?'

History of art, and music in particular, abounds with great examples: the use of a keyboard (an harpsichord at that time) as a soloist in a concerto, traditionally limited to a role of continuo instrument (JS Bach was the first to dare it), the integration of vocal soloists and a chorus in a historically instrumental form (Beethoven symphony No 9), the use of vinyl discs, tape recorders and sampling techniques (Pierre Schaeffer creating musique concrète), etc.

"Don’t be ashamed of your own ideas. Most musicians get applauded for sounding like someone else.

People try something out that they think is exciting, and everyone looks a little unsure. Then they play an old James Brown riff and everyone’s saying: ’Wow! That’s what we want!’

Most of the time musicians are being encouraged to sound recognizable. What I’m doing [as a producer] is encouraging them at the points when they’re not."

[ Brian Eno ]

@baltergeist
And YES, baltergeist, THAT'S REALLY FUN! :))

EDITED Jan 8th 2021, 11:02

@fredeke
'...an Appolo cockpit...'
Same feeling. The first time I had this sensation was in the late 80's, in my little studio built around an Atari 1024 (with C-Lab Notator... forebear of Logic pro) and all those lights of Midi devices around. Feeling as an astronaut, alone in his capsule, living a sort of sonic space oddity :))

Thank you all for participating.

A couple of quotes drawing me back again:
'...the key to Can BEING Can was in how they restricted what they did...' (Lugia)
'...self enforced limitations...' (Farkas)
'...that forest of trillions of possibilities...' (GarfieldModular)

These comments remind me a Matthias Puech interview in a video you can watch on YouTube (the following are accessible at https://www.sawup.fr).

It's in French (I am french too), but I'll try to translate and summarize below some of the main ideas in relation with our thread. (Sorry Matthias if I forgot something important, and sorry ModularGrid buddies for my poor english ;(

Matthias is a musician, teacher, researcher in mathematics, and well known designer of 4ms Tapographic Delay, Ensemble Oscillator, and Mutable Parasites for Clouds, Frames, Tides, etc.

Younger, Matthias had a study at IRCAM and learned about Max/MSP "which is modular synthesis".
According to him: "Modular synthesizer is obviously specific compared with Max through his physical dimension (real knobs, true voltage, etc.)". But, and that's a point for which he LOVES IT: "Especially in the Eurorack world, everyone may opt for let say 'semi-finished' products. Because modules are pre-thought, pre-engineered by their designer, the goal is to turn them afterwards into something relevant for oneself, diverting (hijacking) the codes, and using them differently than why they were intended for".

In this video, you can see his relatively small setup ('...limitations...').
Mathias Puech explains in another video, that he prefers "complex and deep modules, bearing their fruits after a while; this is especially the case for digital, but also analog modules (he mentions Synchrodyne, Swoop, etc.)".

One major bias: "No sequencer! But random modules delivering suggestions to be reworked".

More about Matthias Puech:
https://mqtthiqs.github.io
http://cedric.cnam.fr/~puechm/
https://mqtthiqs.github.io/parasites/

I wanted to share and relate this expert point of view in order to highlight the importance of 'limitations' and the determination of our own goals.

Modular is, by nature, a wonderful instrument which reminds us this universal rule of wisdom.

In my case since january.
Participates in 90 percent of my patches...
Ideal complement to Batumi.
I often say OCHD is a hippie, Batumi a scientist :))

I completely agree with every Farkas advice. But I do think Plaits stays the best choice to begin with, AND will remain in your rack as a swiss knife even if you get an E352, for example (I've got both).
Talking of drones, Telharmonic is a classic sound source too, and Clouds stays one of the best tools for creative ambient patches, bluring an arp for example...

After reading the thread 'Why to NOT get into modular synthesis' https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/3579 I was first a bit disappointed. Then, in a second phase, I felt angry. 'To get or not to get into...'

Primarily, the main thing first and foremost is 'To love': to love music and/or painting, banjo or hightech electronic gear, my trusty old Arp Axxe and this wonderful new module, semi or not semi-modulars, Glenn Gould and Suzanne Ciani, etc and/or so on!

Then I wondered: 'What do I love above all about modular?' (and thank you sincerely Lugia for that). In a few words my own answer would be today: the quality of the sound, to experiment the generative music potential, and all those mesmerizing tiny colorful lights blinking in front of me :)) Beautiful instrument...

So I would be very pleased to know what do YOU LOVE (or prefer) about modular?
Thanks in advance for your words an confidences.

Thank you for sharing. It's easier to understand the way you work with the instrument you build.
I have listened to your track several times with the patch in mind. Very interesting and beautiful piece!

A few questions:
- Are you fully satisfied with the 2hp TM, and why not have chosen the Music Thing Modular? (I personally use Marbles...)
- 2hp Euclid, same question :) Completely satisfied? Did you hesitate with another module like Euclidean Circles?

Thanks in advance for your answers.
With kind regards.

Nice track again, especially the line and inflexions of the main voice (STO?). Which modules did you use to conduct this voice? Micro Sequence only? BTW, interesting to see your wish list (and right choice about Marbles), but would be more helpful to see the details of you current 3 rows.

Nice works, Wishbonebrewery!

You're right, Links is a mult. And a clever one. But I would advise 1 Links plus 1 Buff Mult (for example), saving room in the rack, and getting up to 6 outputs with that one... It's a question of philosophy, variety of species ;)
Disting surely merits its nickname. But like a spare wheel, I hope you won't always need two.

Two major points, IMHO:
- First, a lot of overlaps here (especially 2 Distings, 2 Links, Quad Vca plus Veils...)!
- Second, you will surely need at least some universal tools like: one buffered mult, one reverb, and a proper drum module (such as Basimilus, or ADDAC 104, see that video: )

One of my favorites: powerful, versatile, intuitive. My modular brain in many patches. Complemented by Bloom, a perfect duo.

Thank you so much, Lugia, for your comprehensive and detailed suggestions that I have integrated in the new rack below. You helped me in a previous thread to set up my very first modular around semi-modulars and sequencers I already own. https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/3864

This current thread is just (at this time) a mental exercise, though potentially achievable later within a second rack (end of the year?) The reason is I recently rediscovered Suzanne Ciani works, including the Buchla Concerts 1975, and I'm mesmerized by this music!
MScale is paradoxically included here due to the Mother32 already on my desk.
I finally swapped the A-138s for the new Make Noise X-Pan which apparently seems more in the quadraphonic philosophy of the Buchla universe.
PS: the RackBrute depth could be a bit larger. "53mm on the upper part (power bus) and 75mm on the lower part (no power bus)". https://www.arturia.com/faq/rackbrute/rackbrute-general-questions
But I'll verify that point very soon (delivery is scheduled for next week...)

EDITED May 1st 2019, 18:42

The two complex oscillators cover a lot of the same ground --- I'd swap one of them out for something different like a Verbos Harmonic Oscillator or a Wavetable Oscillator.
-- richc90

Thanks richc90 for your relevant comment. Due to the relatively small size of the RackBrute 6U, I would opt for a Wavetable Oscillator as the E-352 Cloud Terrarium or the Erica Synths Black Wavetable VCO. And alternatively Lugia provides a perspective which could be great too.

Just for fun.
Any comments ?

It's getting there, yep...I still think the Maths would be preferable to just the single VC Slope of the Contour because of all of the internal routings you can do with it to reconfigure it in some very complex ways. Why not pull the Contour in favor of a Doepfer A-140-2 or an A-141-4 for some additional "proper" ADSR EGs? Also, you might consider a comparator or two, since adding those plus a Maths would give you a decent compliment of modulation sources on which you could use the comparator(s) to fire gates when the modulation curves pass given voltage points. Put this together with some logic to work with the Varigate, and you'll have lots of rhythmic mayhem possibilities.
-- Lugia

Thank you very much Lugia for taking the time to provide, from the beginning of this thread, all your detailed and expert advices.

You convinced me about Maths, and I adopted your suggestions about the A-140-2, the comparator (I was totally unaware of that kind of module), and a logic to work with the Varigate.

All your comments have been a valuable input for me in this phase of discovery and understanding. I'm not completely a newbie in synthesizers (I began with an Arp Axxe in the 70's...) but the modular word is a lot different, and there are so many devices and options.
So thanks again.

A last question if it doesn't bother you. I already bought the RackBrute but I'am planning to order the modules in two steps for reasons of budget. If you have any suggestion, two lists, it will be very welcome.

Maybe Plaits?

Well, well... Things are moving. A RackBrute 6U has been ordered this week.
Starting from a first approach and your expert advices, then after watching some Youtube videos (as you guess... ;-) I have led with this set (to be linked with Mother-32, DFAM, 0-Coast, System-1m, KeyStep, BeatStep pro, SQ-1).

My piggy bank is shaking.

It would be great to read your opinion.

Thanks very much for your advices Lugia. Your remarks gave me a better understanding of the way a modular can be built up.

So, considering your suggestions, I modified the rack.
Here is the v2 :

And then, a likely sufficient but cheaper version (2000€ being a maximum amount, at least as a first step... :))

Your final judgment would be very valuable.

My semi-modulars : Mother-32, DFAM, 0-Coast, System-1m.
My sequencers : KeyStep, BeatStep pro, SQ-1.

In your opinion, is this rack a good beginning to extend and complete my set, and make my first steps into the real modular world ?

About the case : 6U studio case 104HP + power supply
https://www.modularsquare.com/fr/shop/eowave/6u-studio-case-104hp-power-supply/
Or : TipTop Audio Mantis
https://www.modularsquare.com/fr/shop/tiptop-audio/mantis-case-vert/

Thanks in advance for your advices.

EDITED Mar 17th 2019, 13:58