Feedback on starter system for Atmospheric sounds, experimentation and techno

This is my rack idea and hoping for feedback or advice as this will be my first delve into full modular after a Doepfer Dark Energy and Moog Grandmother. Is there anything obviois missing or seems out of place?

[Edit: Idea Updated]

Also I was looking at a Tiptop Audio Mantis Blue to house which has 2 x 104 HP and 6U. Would you think this would be OK for this rig?

A bit about my purpose - I love lots of different types of sound and music and already have my rig for music production (including a TR8s, OB6, Blofeld, Minitaur, Future Retro Revolution, Grandmother and Dark Energy) so this really would be about having fun and exploration with sound, but could be great to incorporate into my other work possibly - particularly as I would like to use this opportunity to focus more on creating dark ambient, deep vibes as well as on the flipside harder techno/hardcore (but don't necessarily need a system that can do all of that in one).

I have also been listening to a lot of eastern music recently and interested in exploring different rythms.

Although I know it should not be the driving force of decision making I am a very visual person so the look of the modules is almost as important to me as the function - I am immediately attracted to modules such as the Euclidean Circles as well as other interesting designs and colours. I'm not too fussed about getting things that everyone else has (although understand many modules are popular for a reason) but at the same time wouldnt want unecessary or poor value modules.

I was initially thinking of starting with an all in one unit such as the Make Noise B&G system plus which looks great and there are a lot of modules in there which seem strong but I don't think all of them would suit my style. I have however, been very impressed with the videos I have seen of Erica Synths and was particularly interested in their Fusion System 2.

Therefore my rack idea borrows a lot from this system but swapped their delay/flanger with the Folktek as it looks cool. I added the FR transient for drum/loops (althouh I have also been thinking of Plaits and maybe a 3hp Pico Erica Synths drum module instead along with the Euclidian Cicles to help with rhythm. I added a mixer as would like to connect to my external mixing desk to plug into speakers/Daw

It would be great to sync with my external gear but I do have a Beatstep Pro so assume can do via this to sync with extermal drum machine/synths etc. Its not essential but would be fun.

EDITED Jul 19th 2020, 04:53

you have too many big feature modules and not enough support modules

In my racks I have about 30% of the space dedicated to utilities - this feels about right to me - whereas you have under 10% (the only thing I would class as a utility module that you have is a mixer and a single vca) - I might not use every single module in every patch - but quite often I do

spend some time thinking about how you would patch this - try arranging something similar in vcvrack and see just how many mixers, mults, vcas etc you really need to get the most out of that number of modules - play with a number of different types of utility module to understand how you would use them in your workflow - for example how you really need a sub-mixer to mix the vcos before hitting the filter etc etc

if you are 'married' to the modules you have chosen go for a bigger case (6u / 104hp or 9u /84hpfor example) - add in a quad cascading vca, some logic modules, sample and hold, rectification, utility mixers, mults, switches, matrix mixers

some people describe these modules as boring and whine about not wanting to spend money on modules that don't produce or effect sound - but these are generally people who have not learnt to patch modular synthesizers, yet - these functions are easily ignored if moving from a fixed architecture synth (or soft synths) to modular as most of them are almost always hidden or obscured in some way

but utility modules are the (relatively inexpensive) dull polish that make the expensive, shiny modules, shine brighter and prevent tarnishing

Thanks for the feedback and some helpful food for thought

I guess one of the other things I am aware of is that as I am still new to this I don't want to overwhelm myself with things - would you think it may be better to simplify this rack idea - and what would you take out/put in? I could lose the FR Transient Plus and although the Morphagene looks fun, it isn't necessary.

As I say I started with the Erica Synths System 2 as a starting point but wanted to add some additional bits to go with it. I thought the Make Noise B&G system looked good but for some reason the demos didn't really do much for me in terms of the sounds coming out.

For the utility modules, is there any you would recommend that aesthetically look nice but are also relatively simple for a beginner?

EDITED Jul 18th 2020, 17:15

Just treat the rack as a plan - and plans are great until you start to execute them - at which point they usually change

I think aesthetics are personal - I have a mix of red, black, aluminium and clear paneled modules - i'm more interested in what the modules do than what they look like to be honest

If I were to add modules I would add the following (you will need the bigger case!):

mutable links and kinks - an excellent utility starter set
a quad cascading vca - I like veils it is simple to use and has enough gain (20db) to act as an external input - you can also use it as a voltage controlled mixer (hence cascading)
a disting - either the ex or a mk4 - always there when you need it - if you keep using it for the same thing - buy a module that does that and use the disting for something else
a matrix mixer - there are a number to choose from - I'd probably go for either the AISynthesis one or the Doepfer

the usual advice is to just buy a few modules to start with - learn them and how they work together and then add other modules slowly - if you are in any way worried about being overwhelmed - this is definitely the way to go

maybe you should just get one vco, the filter, the modulator and the vca waveshaper ringmod - and seriously think about adding a few of the utilities above (links and kinks, maybe veils, maybe a disting) learn how to patch those together and then try to work out what you are missing - it might even be from your planned rack - who knows?

Thanks for the reply - I have updated the rack based on your suggestions. I also added in another VCO of the Tabo Mirror as like the drone it puts it out - but not sure if overloading or if the space could have been used for something else?

Another thing I was considering but I don't know if a better idea or not, is to just get a pre built system like the Erica Synths Fusion 2 and just add things to it in a separate rack?

EDITED Jul 19th 2020, 04:54

"I also added in another VCO"
I would do the opposite

Wow...hm, a lot of this needs to be a lot smaller. As in, your VCF and modulation source take up 42 hp in a 104 hp row, which means that two basic functions require over 1/3rd of that row. This makes no sense.

If you've got a Doepfer Monster Case, then yes, I could see justifying that sort of attitude toward panel space. But this is a build in a small cab, where you simply DO NOT have the luxury of spreading out like that if you're trying to make a very capable modular. Plus, some of this might not be the right sort of gear for what you want, which includes "Atmospheric sounds, experimentation"; the Fusion Modulator's trapezoid gens actually are fairly FAST for the sort of very slowly developing sounds that work as drifty, atmospheric bits. And with all of the tube circuitry...did you check your current draws? Do these work with a Mantis? While that cab has a 3A +12V rail, note that this is broken up into three 1A "zones", and those tubes are sucking up a lot of current.

And here's another "warning flag": "any you would recommend that aesthetically look nice". OK...go look at a saxophone for a hot minute. While we all know the shape and such, because it's easy to use as an iconic form...the network of keys, levers, pads, cams, shafts, etc etc all over this form isn't exactly very "aesthetically nice", no matter how the builder tries to nice it up. It still looks like some mechanical engineer's worst fever dream. But all of that IS what makes the sax work.

In short, don't worry about what the build LOOKS like. In all likelihood, that front panel will be smothered in multicolored patchcord wirebarf anyway. Focus on FUNCTION. Sure, an all-black modular might look snazzy...but when you record it, does the blackness of that front panel influence the sound? No? Then don't bother with that aspect. Optimize the sonic capabilities while, at the same time, reducing the cost. F'rinstance, the Fusion VCO2s...OK, fine, they're black, they have tubes. But they take up 28 hp between them, plus tubes in the VCO...ah...really, you want to introduce those nonlinearities further down the signal chain, and have rather precise waveforms at generation. And together, they're $672 for just two VCOs. But at the same time, you could drop $15 more and get three Pittsburgh Lifeforms Primarys...which are more capable in terms of waveform manipulation, modulation capabilities, etc. No, they're NOT black. No, they DON'T look like any of the other modules. But none of that really should matter; you're making a musical instrument, not a movie prop, and visual aspects really should NEVER be a prime concern in that process, especially if they force you into a poorer functionality choice. This is just one example here; there are others, if you start looking.

Honestly, I'd tear this down and chalk it up as a learning experience. Some useful things to remember with MG, btw...

1) Your initial builds will NEVER work. Nobody does one-shots and nails the result. Nobody. Creating a modular build you'll want to use and live with for years takes time and a significant refinement process; fast results only yield crap that we'll be seeing chopped up and put on Reverb/eBay in several months' time.

2) Don't define the case FIRST. Instead, start with a much larger cab. Either you'll...a: find that the case WASN'T "too big", or b: you'll be paring the build down to eventually arrive at your desired build size, with ample space in which to do that.

3) MG isn't a video game. There's no score here. It's not a timed exercise. Get used to the notion of exploring the site in deeper ways, studying modules, existing builds by knowledgeable users, and the concepts behind modular synthesis. Trying to rush this is a good recipe for wasting money.

4) Understand that a good result WILL involve certain amounts of technical compromises. You simply won't be able to cram in every single function you want, so it's important that you sort out how to arrive at those compromises within the "box" of how you work on your music.

5) The amount of f**ks given about what a build looks like should be precisely concomitant with the page count of that storied tome "Famous Antarctic Television Personalities of the 16th Century" (ie: zero). And...

6) The boring-looking stuff is what makes the sexy-looking stuff WORK. Add unlimited snazzy modules at your peril!

Thanks all - helpful and given me some good points to think about. I think I am going to start small with a few modules and really try and understand them