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OK...flow was seriously reworked. Clock and Disting + mult are now upper-left. Audio sources next, starting with the Plonk so it can take a trigger out easily from the Tempi, then the oscillators after that, into your Veils. Filter after that...which puts the entire audio generation/modification chain up top along with your clocking.
Bottom row starts with the LFOs, then the sequencer so it can tap-upwards for its clock, then back up again to the oscillators nearby. All the envelope gens are grouped now, and proximal to the Tempi as well for triggers. I added a TriATT to make it easy to scale and invert your modulation sources (this is why it's last in the modulation section) as well as provide offset voltages or serve as an extra mixer...it's quite versatile for its size and cost.
Then the Frames for mixing, taking the filter feed down to the bottom where the mod sources are to modulate the Frames. Next, another addition: an Erica Pico DSP. This adds some basic effect processing, plus also stereoizes the Frames' output so it works better with the fully-stereo Clouds, then off to the outputs. Or, alternately, you can take a pair out from the Frames and feed this to the Clouds, then using the Pico DSP to put effects on the feed from the VCF to the Frames. Lots of potential there.
You'll notice, also, that I ejected the uZeuses in favor of a 4ms Row Power 40; this is more than adequate for the build's current draw, returns 4 hp back to other modules, and simplifies the power arrangement, eliminating the need for two P/S modules.
All flow now works left-to-right on both rows, with the ability to 'loom' up or downwards as needed in a fairly logical order. This should be a lot smoother to work with!
I am thinking this combined with either the Sound Machines Modulor 114 and Koma Field Kit would be tons of fun to get started with along with the Endorphin.es system. I priced out the cheapest Buchla and cheapest Serge system and the Serge was over 3k and the cheapest Buchla was 5k! So for what just one of the Buchla or Serge cost, I can have 3 portable modular systems and change left over! Then I can think about building a rack from scratch.
For the direction you want to go in, which is really aggro and f**ked up, I'm thinking that the best in these early stages would be the Phenol, but make sure you get a format-changer box to convert back and forth from it and the 0-Coast. That's necessary not only because the 0-Coast and Phenol use very different jack formats, but the Phenol needs the interface box to extend its ground-plane to so that it can go on over the 'shield' on the 3.5mm jacks. Yeah...this could get real fun, real quick!
USA...makes sense, since Mutable's in the EU and Intellijel is Canadian and subject to NAFTA tariff relaxations. Same difference, though...they're pretty much interchangeable.
Right...in fact, Maths is more complex, because you also have CV over 'rise' and 'fall' rates, allowing you to CV-shape the resulting output curves on the fly as part of your patch. Basically, it's a module that's derived from the classic Serge Dual Universal Slope Generator...and as such, you can use it as an envelope, complex function gen, LFO, or even an actual VCO at a pinch!
As for the 3hp Erica DSP...think carefully here: most of your signal paths tend to be mono, but the DSP has a mono in and stereo outs, meaning that not only is it an effects processor, it's also where you can generate a stereo signal to feed both channels of the Clouds. I jammed that in like that so that you could take a mono signal, stereoize it for the Clouds, then pass the Clouds on to the stereo channel of the Erica mixer. Thinking in signal chains like that is a real key to getting maximum function out of a build!
Looking at the Stages specs right now...I think that may well be your best option for multiple envelopes. I think several 2 hp ADSRs might be a good idea, however, simply for the VCA contours over the Praga to get your final dynamic shaping prior to the output chain. Looking at the second build above, I see six VCAs outside of the Praga...using the Stages as a one-shot (or some multiple EG configuration) should be able to feed most or all of those properly, leaving only the Praga's channel VCAs.
You need 8 hp. If you were to drop the Erica Voice and Mod, and one Disting, that would give 10. So, four ADSRs, then replace the Mod with either an AD or another ADSR so you actually get that function back...that might button this thing up!
Check with Metasonix themselves. I know they offer some P/S options that can handle their tube module draws, most notably across the 5V rail for the tube filaments. They're also cogniscent that the filaments draw considerably more on startup than once they're at operating temperature, since they have to overcome the thermal version of inertia in order to get up to operating temps. Once there, they draw 'less'...although, that's one massive 'less' that they draw.
Erica also has a solution to filament voltages, but I'm not sure if it's compatible with Metasonix modules...it might just be for their own tube modules. In their case, there's a retrofitted 6.3VDC supply added which supplies the filaments.
Congrats on the 0-Coast, btw...now you can see the screaming raw POWER that having full control over the patch architecture offers! To quote noted actor and weirdo John Travolta: "Ain't it cool?"
Wowzer Lugia you are fountain of Eurorack knowledge! Thanks man for the lesson. Ok, so I finally got my brand spanking new Make Noise 0coast yesterday in the post and went to town learning and trying new patches, it is fun! Now I definitely want to get into modular when new funds permit of course. I actually much prefer the west coast synth over east coast. Of the modules, would you get for a newbie to patching and modular:
and why? Bear in mind my goal is to crank out dark, dirty, nasty industrial aggro-type German techno like Funker Vogt, Wumpscut, Ministry, Front 242 and NIN. I know that Trent Reznor used Moog but he also used Buchla later on with Alessandro Cortini.
Thanks for your proposition! I'll have a closer look at it.
Maths was on my list, but couldn't manage to fit it in. I'm hesitating a lot between the Pico DSP and the Black Hole DSP which comes with more controls and effects.
What I like about the Dual ADSR are the extra options (EOD, cycle), but Maths seems to have similar options.
I don't know where you live, but here everywhere I look the Veils is 20 to 40€ cheaper than the Intellijel Quad!! :-P
Top Lugia, thank's alot - I will free some space for the envelopes. Because I am a sound designing nerd I have to keep the O'tools oscilloscope.
Option A: If I drop the Synthrotek ADSR and one Disting the 8hp could be filled with four envelope generators by 2hp (2x AD/AR module and 2x ADSR module). The rack would look like this:
Option B: If I drop the WMD MSCL and the Ladik Output module for the suggested Pico Out, and furthermore dropping the Pico Logic, Synthrotek ADSR and Optomix (LxD instead as my low pass gate) that together would free up space for...
...the very new Mutable Instruments Stages - should be a super flexible envelope generator with one huge six step envelope or for example DADSR, AD and ADSR, 2x ASR, 3x AR or AD etc. Alternatively the Stages LFO function could be dialed in. Envelope curves can be shaped and time/level CV manipulated. I think that could help me out with my envelope problem in this rack (Peaks could be dedicated to the Praga in expert mode with 2x ADSR). The Stages just shows up the right time... yeah! The last 2hp could be filled with the Pluck to have some Karplus-Strong sounds (no Rings or Plaits on board).
So the rest of my rack will be developed like this (still not sure about final arrangement of the modules - so I configured two arrangement options). What do you finally think?
Haha now that would be scary in real life! Yeah I need to add power what would you recommend to handle the modules? Right now been playing with my new Make Noise 0coast semi modular and tested first patch! So much fun now I know Eurocrack is calling my name when money is available :-)
Seriously, check your draw on the R-55's 5V tap. This build wouldn't even make it through the warmup of that module before the Magic Blue Smoke got out.
It's getting closer, to be sure...my instinct, though, would be to drop the second Disting (fun tho that might be) in favor of a second Synthrotek ADSR (good pick), and then still trying to jam a couple more AR-types in. Remember, if you're using the Praga as the performance mixer, that also has exponential VCAs for its audio and you can feed envelopes to those to do your final dynamic shaping. Having one more ADSR would help the Praga really shine in that way, and then you can use the extra AR/ASRs to do the envelope response, linear VCA mixer response, and also for a bit of extra modulation sources. Maybe dropping the O'Tool would free up a bit more for that, as this rig seems to me to be a bit envelope-hungry.
OK...you'll notice I made the cab bigger but many modules got smaller; as a result, it's a tighter, better-implemented version. Case is a Pittsburgh EP-270 (3 x 90 hp), inexpensive for the size but with beefy power specs: 4A on +12, 3 on -12, and 2 on 5 to power 1679mA on the +12 rail, 861mA on -12, and 25mA on the 5V. This way, the power supply gets to loaf along on a light load, reducing heat and component stress and improving stability.
5 VCOs now: I shrank the Verbos Complex VCO in favor of a Sputnik, which is not only smaller, it has a little bit more going on functionally. Then there's a TZFM VCO, and two regular Doepfers. Ring mod got added, then a 4-in summing mixer before a Tiptop wavefolder with a suboctave generator. Triple VCA mixer at the end along with a passive mult (the one at the VCO end is active, plus tandemmed with a dual switchable-direction slew limiter).
Modulation row: noise/random/S+H, then a pair of EMW LFOs. Maths (of course) next, then the next two modules are an Intellijel Quadra (four AR/ASR loopable envelopes) with its expander/CV control. Erica dual ADSR next, then two filters: a Doepfer A-106-1 and a Limaflo Motomouth.
Now, these are weird filters, to be sure. The Doepfer is a dirtier take on a Korg MS-20 Sallen-Key pair, but it has this weird feature: an insert point in its resonance feedback circuit. This means that you can drop stuff into that path and alter how the filter pair deals with its resonance signal in loads of ways...for example, the filter next to it, which is a very weird vocal formant-morphing thing. So, with that sort of path, you can have the regular LP/HP combo, but everything feeding back to cause resonance is getting colored up by vocal vowel formants. That's just one example of this sort of A-106-1-type mayhem. There's others, to be sure.
Bottom row: your Metropolis is there, but I did something to the Quantimator: it mutated into a two-channel Doepfer quantizer and a two-channel shift register, with a lot of potential variation that the single-channel Quantimator could never have pulled off. Now, you can actually assign one voicing to the first quantizer/shift register, and put another on the second two...or put the VCO pitches on one side and the filter cutoffs on the other, or...well, you get the idea. Same device, but twice as nice! Two more VCAs, primarily for CV use but they can also switch to exponential for audio, then a TriATT, which can be used as a set of attenuverters, a 3-in mixer, or three channels of CV offset...or a couple of those at the same time.
Four-in stereo mixer, this goes to the Morphagene, which allows you to loop/granulate/warp/mangle the entire synth's output in stereo, with the output module (with transformer isolation and a ganged stereo level pot) right there for output to line-level.
So, yeah...it's quite a bit of your idea, just refined, put into a bigger case, and tightened up with a straightforward signal flow pattern. Fairly cost-effective for the size, too...modules came in at $5106, case is $599 street. Now that's a respectable starter Eurorack, with an eye for unconventional sound and plenty of potential. Whatcha think?
That's what's nice about certain of the patchable systems...if they're properly done, you have ample choices, plus the expandability into actual modules is built-in and doesn't have to be kludged into working.
Explaining Phenol...OK, back at the beginning of synthesis, Don Buchla's systems wound up all up and down the West Coast at various schools, one of which was CalArts. And there was constant hassles over getting time on the sole Buchla system they had, so Serge Tcherepnin who was an instructor and composer there around 1970 came up with this idea to cook up some basic module boards, parts kits, predrilled panels, and paper panel layouts, and offer these to the students as a project that a number of them could collaborate in building, with the result being that everyone wound up with a few panels which made up a fairly potent patchable synth. These originals actually had no name, and were mostly assembled in an ad-hoc assembly line around a courtyard at CalArts' music department, and wound up being called 'Serge' synths because it was Serge Tcherepnin who cooked the whole project up.
Serge made some changes over Don's designs, though. First off, Serge made his systems more interconnection-friendly. Early Buchlas used all sorts of non-standard voltages and separated the control signals from the audio. Serge changed this so that his modules worked with 1V/8va scaling and positive triggers, and put the audio and control signals back as one single jack group, so that audio could easily be used as CVs, and vice-versa. Second, the actual Serges always tended to follow the form factor that had been used in the first place: modules were mounted onto predrilled aluminum panels, and as these became commercial products, you had to specify which modules you wanted on which custom panels for your system...which is a ROYAL pain in the ass to work with, I assure you!
Now, Andrew Kilpatrick and some other synth builders in the 1990s and 2000s decided to try and do the Serge-type connection format in different ways. Bruce Duncan of Modcan, in his Modcan A systems, created very tall/long modules, and Kilpatrick went more toward Buchla's 4U panels, both using bananas while at the same time, both also did Eurorack development (and Modcan also did their 5U 'B' systems). But it was Ken Stone that worked with Rex Probe and Serge Tcherepnin eventually, after devising some similarly Serge-like modules on his own, and this became Elby, which famously did their 'EuroSerge' form factor...3U with banana jacks.
Why banana jack/plugs? Several reasons, actually...
First of all, the patchcables are lunkhead-simple to make. They don't even require soldering, and you only have a single wire, so it's possible to build piles of patchcables with a wire cutter/stripper and a small adjustment screwdriver (the banana plugs have a setscrew in them that holds the wire in place), and these don't tend to wear out over time. Granted, there have been some people who've griped about crosstalk since the 'ground' is established across the panel, but that's really not a hugely consequental issue for most users.
And second, banana plugs are stackable. This eliminates the need for multiples, and also encourages users to splay signals out in all directions for various purposes, so that one signal source might actually be busy doing numerous things with numerous functions all over the place. Hence why the Phenol is such a potent device, despite it actually seeming rather simple. However, this one 'plus' comes with a big caveat: it is easy to get distracted while patching something complicated and accidentally connect an output to another output. Now, if this happens on a conventional two-conductor jack system, if the outputs don't have diode protection, the result can be damage to one or both modules. But on a banana jack system, a patchcord array that has this output-output patching might be capable of damaging several things at once if the synthesist gets sloppy while programming a patch...say, three outputs get connected. Then you'd run a risk of frying all three outputting modules, and the small instance of overvoltage (if that happens) could also overload and 'pop' any inputting modules in the patchcord array. Icky. But this just means you have to be CAREFUL...which you should be, anyway.
Anyway, banana systems are another compact option on par with Eurorack, inasmuch as there's both prebuilds like the Phenol and a sizable module base. Plus Serge/STS also does their 'shop panel' series, prebuilt panels that, while they cost quite a bit, do astonishing things sonically. The Serge was also sort of the original '0-coast' idea; it had the ability to work with subtractive synthesis to a much greater degree than the Buchlas, but patched in a manner more akin to a Buchla and made use of a touchpad key sequencer like Don's systems tended to.
Anyway, yeah, bananas do look a little...odd. But I have stuff here that uses those as well as loads of other jack formats, and I never see any issues with them. Plus the stackability allows a flexibility you just cannot find easily with typical bipolar connection systems. And if you run out of cables...well, just ring up Mouser or Allied or whatever, get a bag of Pomonas and a roll of 16ga stranded copper wire, then bust out the tools for an evening, and soon enough you'll have a pile of new cables to use. Easy-peasy!
Current consumption numbers here are not accurate, although approved by the manufacturer. The module draws 35mA from the (required) 5V rail according to the Bastl website:
I started with a basic build using VCA, VCF, LFO, utilities like clock/slew, VCO. Looking for industrial techno, trance and darker sound in my first rack. Here is what I just sketched out:
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thank you very much for your effort to give advice on my expansion plans. I appreciate your experience and know-how - awesome!!
Due to space economical reasons in my project studio I don't use a mixer. I hooked up my non-modular synths and FX via balanced patchbays so I could run every synth through the FX/outboard gear I like and than to the audio/ADAT interface (everything in my studio is balanced cabled so I like to have a balanced master output for my modular system, too). Rosie's TRS output ist linked via one of the patchbays to a pair of channels of my audio interface. The system works stand alone (without PC) for jamming, too. Therefore I like the idea to have a small performance mixer in the modular rack helping me quickly dial in loudness, muting and panning when I am jamming electronic and technoid stuff (those basic functions have to be CV controlled for the more ambient and generative tracks on-top of manually mixing). Because of that secnario the Xaoc Praga has been in my mind for a while.
The idea of phase shifting the Telharmonic sounds promising, thanks for that (I have a Vermona analog phaser PH-16 in my 19" rack, so maybe I can utilize this or of cause the super-duper Xaoc Kamienic - but no rack space for this). Concerning the filter there are so many good alternatives, but as you said cause of rack space in combination with what I have and planning to achieve the Xaoc Belgrad should be a super option. Beside its special sound (could be used as a more classy liquid filter, too) I love the Xaoc look & feel and the overall outstanding build quality of their modules. I will put that filter definitely into the rack, I have ordered one today at Schneidersladen in Berlin (coming in at April/May as a new batch of Xaoc Devices is on build hopefully - yeah).
I like your suggestion with the Delphtronics LDB-2 (didn't know the module until yet). Because of the limited size of my modular system I thought a lot about putting dedicated drum modules in it or going with a external drum machine instead. So I think it is a good idea to keep the drums on the small side here and utilize my Elektron Analog Rytm more often besides the modular. To keep things more simple I like the idea to do some basic drum works within the modular via Pico Drums, Tiptop One or sometimes Peaks or Braids and for more crazy stuff Basimilus Iteritas Alter (utilizing the latter for basslines and technoid building blocks instead of percs, too).
One of my main questions still is, how many envelopes will I need. I have a classic envelope on the SV-1. It could need a second ADSR for separate filter and VCA modulation. The Telharmonic needs sometimes an ADSR envelope, too (not only vactrol kind of VCAF filtering like with the Optomix). With Peaks I have two independent envelopes in different style, the Disting could deliver, too (will sell the MK3 though, replacing it with the MK4 - much better user experience with that new small digit display). To ensure another swiss knife function a second Disting could be nuts. Maybe I leave it for a while as is and see what I need in upcoming patching situations. Hm...
As I speek "Optomix" - as I like to keep the Tallin (cause i bought it recently and it sounds amazing as an VCA for audio) - should I plan with the Optomix or should I better drop it for something else? I guess I need a good sounding lowpass gate in my system, maybe using the Make Noise LxD instead of the Optomix and fill up the remaining space with one more envelope generator?
Last but not least thank you very much for your arrangement tips, Lugia. That is what I am struggling with sometimes, luckily with this rack of a manageable size it will somehow work together. Nevertheless I will follow your structure from left to right and bundling functions.
After considering your suggestions in sum I have put the rack like this - of cause not a final building plan. Any more suggestions or comments on that are highly welcome!! :-)
I'm seriously considering to switch from that big Cwejman Filter to two smaller but more effective ones. Any advise on some VCFs should be good for me? I also have to explain you that I've got a studio with no modular synths and just vintage gear (mostly Roland...)and I've always been fascinated by the power of older oscillator and filter. So I would try to get some modules that are as possibly powerful as the other I have, any ideas? I've been quite impressive by the vibe of the Verbos CO, and that's the reason I fit it in the system.
The other reason I'm searching for an help is that my mind is likely to think sound out of a "normal" style synthesis (1 or 2 vcos, 1 lfo, adsr etc etc), but I know that keeping limits into modular world could be the main limit! Despite that I linked in the threat the incomplete system, the correct one was https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_644608.jpg.
The Phenol looks well laid out and easy to understand so it would be a consideration in spite of the weird banana clip format which I am not crazy about as using standard Eurorack cables makes life easier. I would need to make a trip to LA to try all this gear out. Or mix and match with both a Phenol and Modulor 114 and add in the Koma Field Kit and go insane in backpack portable modular gear.
What is weird is that after spending lot of time watching videos of the expensive modular systems, I can do most of it on my single Elektron Analog 4 MKII box! I do want modular but the price tag is much higher than non modular hardware synths.
Yeah, I saw that demo, too...not the best programming work there, true. But keep in mind that when you crossconnect devices, a lot of shortcomings that you'd see in a device like that tend to vanish because the interconnectivity can allow you to route around the things that don't work well in that particular box, but then you can also use those 'don't work well' things in conjunction with ones that do, also. Phenol was another one I perhaps should've mentioned, although you'll need a format-changer box to go from bananas to 3.5mms to pair it.
But then, there's the terrifying idea of two Phenols, too...and this leads in the direction of Serge-type gear, which Elby, Random*Source and others can do in Eurorack format but _also_ with bananas. And there's something to be said for that patching format, because multiples aren't needed at all, and signals can start branching all over the place, leading to some VERY complex sounds. Another consideration, perhaps...?
Yeah I did not care for the demos of the Plankton Ants it was not much different than a few presets on my Elektron Analog 4. I do like the sounds from the demos of the Modulor 114 and also the Kilpatrick Audio Phenol as well as the Dreadbox Erebus and NYX. So I would probably get the Modulor 114 and Dreadbox before jumping into building a 10k Eurorack system.
Well, like I said, don't get discouraged. MG is an incredible resource for figuring out what you actually are trying to accomplish sonically and what bits and pieces, in what order, work to get you there. Spend some time here researching others' racks and seeing what experienced synthesists are doing, asking questions, and working on lots of builds to try and sketch out an approach. True, modular synthesizers aren't a thing to just dive into casually...especially these days...but the fact is that it's loads easier now thanks to resources like MG to eventually arrive at something that you intuitively KNOW you can live with and work with for years to come. Takes time, and practice...like most anything else worthwhile!
Hmm...well, maybe put a second DixieII+ in instead of the Doepfer. Saves space, which you need with that honkin' big Verbos Buchla 200 clone.
I'd also try and dissuade you from that Cwejman filter. Again, it's huge (which means it's stealing space for some other things you need) and quite spendy for what it is. You could likely get more done with two smaller VCFs, especially if you can interlink them, then you'd have room for the VCAs that you're missing and the multiples you need to spread certain CVs out.
Think smaller modules here. The devices that make sense that are large (Metropolis, Verbos VCO, Maths) leave you way less room than you need if you keep using large panel spaces. That, or scrap the rack and move up to something bigger...which might be a good idea, actually. Starting with more space and having to figure out how to fill it once your mission-specific modules are in place is usually more rewarding than hitting that cab's hp limit and then realiing that there's important bits missing.
Ahhh...you missed one: the Plankton Ants!. It's a killer value for $599, one you should consider even alongside one of the others as an expander. Plus if paired with the Modulor 114, you'd then have a very small (backpack-sized) setup with 6 VCOs, for starters. Consider those two together; they come in at about the same price (or less) than the others. Toss it together with the logical mixer (ie: a Koma Field Kit), and you'd have a rig that could fit easily in a backpack or small carry-on case.
One thing that I am doing is using the free software VCV Rack and Softtube Modular to plan out how the modules work as well as try semi modular gear like the Make Noise 0-coast before I blow 5-10k on a modular setup. Not sure what your experience level is on Eurorack but maybe try a smaller approach in stages?
Whooo...this is not bad at all! Your prospective choices are pretty spot-on, actually. As for the reverb on your chord parts, though...I'd be more inclined to do that outside of the modular via an FX send/return on your primary mixer to have better control/blend over that signal. Otherwise, you run a risk of getting the modular's output signal a bit too muddy and cluttered. However, what I would suggest is to process the chord parts in the modular with a phase shifter to get a nice, potentially spatialized sense of timbral motion. As for the filtering on that, you might consider some sort of resonator...maybe aim for that classic Korg PS-series sort of multiband depth. Both of those together would be really wild...very much in that classic Basic Channel sort of sonic zone, given the dubby/spacy sweeping you'd get.
Another VCF to consider might be DINsync's SARA VCF...it's also a state-variable, but it has a very odd architecture that the manufacturer refers to as 'dual opposed-core', which should be in that dual-peak style of the Praga but might actually be stranger in character. Plus it has two big purple knobs...which would look very visually intriguing for live gigging.
Arrangement definitely needs work, tho...hang on a few minutes...ok, maybe a bit longer since MG's acting up, but...
Howzzat?
Went ahead and, as suggested, fleshed it on out. You'll note a few modules missing from the original, notably the Tallinn and Peaks, which were replaced with the Optomix and a bit of the RADAR. That last thing is a killer...eight looping AD/ASR generators with a separate controller module, the BLIP. I'd say that satisfies all envelope generation needs for this build! I located it centrally to make it convenient to the entire build at the same time.
Batumi (and Poti) added, along with the Belgrad (too little space for the SARA VCF, but the Belgrad fit just fine), along with a Delptronics LDB-2 for analog 606/808-ish drums, then a six-in stereo Ladik mixer, with the Morphagene in 'post' position followed by the Erica Output. Sequencer/clocking area was reordered to straighten out the step-down flow of the clock from the Metropolis thru to the Erica Seq and sequential switch (now in position to switch clock outputs from the Euclidean). All voicing to the top row, where the MTE 4 is set to work as a unity-gain muting mixer for a channel of the Veils. Also, the DSP is post-Optomix to make it convenient for tinkering with the output(s) from that. Didn't cram in a phaser, but there should be enough in there for extreme sonic damage purposes.
Yep...the price discrepancy on the Entry Point for the same functions (pretty much) as the A-119 just doesn't make sense, plus you lose 2 extra hp of space to it. Granted, it has that square-wave 'extractor', but if you're not inputting something that has a very pure waveform in the first place, or which has numerous pitches, that's not likely to function properly. Not quite the same thing as a proper P-V converter, which tends to be a bit pricier.
And if we're talking Erica mixers, have you had a look at their Black Output Module? Pricier, but you get a stereo mixer with CV over panning, 3 mono channels and one stereo, a master gain, balanced outputs + a headphone amp, and it only takes up four more hp. That thing is pretty serious, takes care of the output + stereo mix thing, gives you a proper stereo in for the Clouds. $150 more, but I think you get your money's worth on that, given that the Black Stereo Mixer is roughly $150 and a stereo output will run another $75-100 for something decent. Plus the panel width used should be the same.
(Later): OK, I banged on it a little...several modules went away, and the goal here was to jack the functionality up as much as I could in a small space. 6 EGs (two AHDSR, two ADSR w/ inverters, two AD), 6 VCA (Intellijel Quad ($10 cheaper than Mutable's) and two linears), 6-channel mixer for sources, added a Maths, condensed the effects while breaking them out a little for some separate processing. Kept the Clouds, added the Black Output v2, plus also crammed in a ring mod and waveshaper, and cleaned up the signal flow. Here 'tis:
Better?
Hey Lucia, I really appreciate your thoughts. You're right about the selling of my synths, some have rocked up in price and in hindsight I think I wanted something not achievable with really any amount of rackspace.
I think I was seduced by the small form factor and an affordable way into the Eurorack world!
I think I will sell the stuff I don't use and just keep a lurking eye on this site to keep up to date!
I'm looking for my first modular synth. I'd like to create something musical, no super-strage melodies, but I'd like to interrelate melodies so i'd picked a quantizer, the quantimator, that should be the brain of my researches. 3 VCos because of the chords progressions, any advise on utility modules or any big oversight I did?
Ok so I am looking at getting my first basic Eurorack system for industrial type techno music that can also do house and psy-trance beats. Considering a pre-built system like the Roland 500 series, Erica Synths Drone, Buchla Snoopy, or Soundmachines Modulor114 that already have the modules put together in case/power supply.
I am into modular synthesis for a while and really enjoy the possibilities for sound design, doing ambient stuff as well as technoid tracks. The modular is joining my classic synth portfolio and was at first a kind of supplement. More and more I use it standalone for jamming.
The modular case is build by MDLR with 9u/114 hp featuring a Doepfer PSU-3 with 60 power headers (https://www.mdlrcase.com/product/eurorackcase-9u-84hp-classic-black/). Started originally with Pittsburgh‘s SV-1 I have build up the rack with this larger MDLR case (Roland with 84hp first) and a couple more modules came in during the last months (Noise Engineering Basimilus Alter, TipTop One, Circadian Circles). On the sequencer side a Beatstep Pro is joining the system.
So now I am looking to compliment the built with some more decent modules like a small performance mixer (e.g. Xaoc Praga), a second FX, a capable filter as an alternative to the classic SV-1‘s lowpass filter (e.g. Xaoc Belgrad because of it‘s dedicated sound and capabilities, look and feel) - maybe a low pass gate like Make Noise Optomix in addition, another envelope, a WMD MSCL for sound polish at the end of the mix and for some duckin effects, dropping the Rosie because of the planned mixer for exchange with a simple output module with smaller footprint and last but not least a friend to the Maths (e.g. Xaoc Batumi) for some more modulation.
As said, jamming technoid stuff with this thing and sometimes some generative ambient sounds is the goal for this system. So this means some monotonic, slightly envolving beats (bass drum, snare, hats, on-top percs), bass line, 1-2 melody/seq lines, deep house chords with a lot of filtering and reverb on those chords (telharmonic for this). Would be awesome, if you have any advice or comments on the actual system and the planned direction of development? What are you missing, how would you arrange the modules?
Thx for your help in advance and greetings from Germany
Yes I am aware of the different amperage on the +12 and -12, I just mentionned the +12 here because as you said it has the biggest load. For now I have 377mA on the -12V so there's still room too. I'll keep an eye on both for sure, and even on the +5V part!
For the mixer, I was looking at the Black Stereo Mixer from Erica Synths. Less features than the Mixology, but still seems to do the job at mixing stereo and the 4th mono input can provide some panning action.
The Doepfer A-119 looks great, thanks for the tip. I was looking at the Entry Point from Pulplogic but it's more than twice the price.
Sigh...sorry to do this, but it's bubble-pop time.
There's only two sound sources in this build, and one of those is a noise generator. Even with a uBraids, the sound is going to be a tad thin.
More confusingly, there's two very large and very complex filters in there. If there's only one actual oscillator, then why have those?
Also, why the ribbon controllers? Or two granular sample processors? Or a buffered mult when a passive one will do here? And where are your VCAs, even for just audio level control?
I have a feeling that these modules aren't going to work in the way you think they will. This might be pretty, but if you were to put this together for real, the only 'pretty' it's probably going to wind up being is 'pretty frustrating'.
See https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/3015 before going too much further, please. You're contemplating spending a sizable amount of money on something that's only barely a synthesizer if this is an actual consideration. If not, then scrap it, do some more research, and start over. This isn't a simple thing that can be tossed together casually; the likely result will be money ill-spent on a device that only causes annoyance when you figure out what it won't do.
If the goal here is to put together a sort of generative system that you can trigger with your drumkit, I'll warn you right now: you're probably starting too small. Just the amount of trigger and microphone inputs you're going to want (need, actually) and the interactivity from those is going to pass that little cab's space limitations very rapidly. Back up, start again, this time with something like a 6U or 7U (one tile row) x 104 or larger case. Otherwise, the only way this becomes doable is with buttloads of tiny 2 , 3 and 4 hp modules, and if you want to make an adjustment to any of that while playing the drums, you'll discover a whole new level of frustration.
My suggestion: go and look at some examples of the electronic kits from the beginning of that concept, such as the early Simmons kits. You'll find that these tend to be very easy to adjust on the fly because of how their control panels are laid out, basically becoming the template for what electronic controls for drummers (who tend to be QUITE busy with the actual drums themselves) evolved from. Teensy knobs and loads of patchcords doesn't lend themselves to the sort of adjustability and playability as, say, an SDS-8.
It's not a bad idea...it just all has to be done right, or you'll wind up with equipment that has an unusable form factor.
Honestly, I wouldn't put the Model D in the Rackbrute. First of all, it already has a cab and that cab takes care of its power needs. Secondly, it takes up a lot of room, and given the goal you're shooting for, the Model D gobbles up a lot of the rack space you'll need to make that work. Wanting to 'do it all' in 2 x 88 hp is a bit of a tall order...not wholly impossible, but if 70 hp is being used by what's basically a monosynth that can just as easily stay where it is, you probably won't be getting close to that notion.
Third: be extremely careful about which synths to sell. Consider that some of those, if you got them relatively cheaply, probably will not ever be at your disposal again. Case in point is sitting right behind me, and only cost $450 plus a couple of days driving when I got it, and while I could easily pull down a cool $18k for my Yamaha CS-80, I have been balking at it ever since the idea arose...because I will NEVER, EVER find one of these things at an affordable price again! Even if that revenue was 100% channeled into studio equipment, losing that particular synth would be a helluva hole in my equipment. In contrast, I was able to get another MS-20 (Mini), a few others I sold in recent times are redoable in more reliable forms (my PPG setup, for example...Waldorf's Blofeld Keyboard is just fine as a functional replacement, plus Wolfgang Palm's doing some wild stuff now with mobile devices), and one I regret selling can be regotten cheaply enough.
The 'Brute rig is one I've been working on as of late, although the eventual result will be a 2 and 2S with two 6Us (maybe), so this is pretty familiar turf. So, one caveat I would make is that it might be a good idea to get the Minibrute 2 first, pair it with the Model D, and then see what needs present themselves. As for me, I'm familiar with the Minibrute's architecture, so I know what needs to be paired with it to get it to go in the directions I want, but if you've not had a lot of experience with patch-overriding a synth's internals, I would really suggest doing that first before dropping a bunch of money on a Rackbrute 6U and a module compliment, then discovering that, wow, none of this does what I had in mind, so now what?
Also, having just discovered modular synthesizers, you might want to observe first. See what others are doing, research what the 'classics' had, then sort out the various strengths and weaknesses you're going to gradually notice. For example, why did Uli Behringer use (cough, cough, 'steal') the Minimoog's overall basics to come up with that Model D? On that one, if you know why the Minimoog was set up the way it was, you might see a couple of other reasons why I'm saying it doesn't go in the Rackbrute.
And remember: what you're contemplating here involves blowing several grand, ultimately...yes, even in that small a cab, if you want it set up correctly. Treat this more as building an instrument that you're likely to use for several years, not something you can toss like a Volca or some such.
Not trying to throw water on your enthusiasm, mind you...it's just that you're wandering into an area that's INFINITELY deep that makes a read through the Sweetwater catalog look like a cursory glance at a Hallmark card, and I'm just noting that you might want to slow a bit here and find out what all of this not-bought-yet gear can and should do before dropping a bushel of moolah on it. Make sense?
Hi, my aim here is to buy a minibrute 2 and use a rackbrute 6u. I need to keep the space small as I'm likely to be moving around a lot and so will sell some of my old synths to fund.
I am totally new to the modular world, but would like to build in the rackbrute a system that can do it all. I like to noodle mostly and already have a Behringer model d, hence it's in my rack.
Do you think it's possible to have a system which would be able to cover all grounds for creating track, ie drums and such? Or have I wandered to deep into my gear acquisition syndrome and become way out of depth?!
I would appreciate any help with a hypothetical system using the minibrute 2 and rackbrute 6u and Behringer model d to create a comprehensive portable system.
Oooh...be careful about how you're reading that Mantis power spec! Tiptop's site says it has 3 x 1A on the +12 rail only; the -12 rail is limited to 1100 mA, and if that's exceeded there'll be problems.
Eurorack power uses bipolar DC supplies for the 12V rails. One side is positive, the other negative, and the 'common' acts more like a 'neutral' line for the bipolar supply purposes. While the +12 rail handles the largest loads as a rule, the -12V rail can add up pretty quickly as well, and BOTH amperage criteria have to be watched to prevent overloading each of the 12V busses. My suggestion is to find powered case solutions where you have suitably large amperage potential on all rails to avoid overtaxing any parts of the power supply setup.
As for the output/mixer issue...if you're going to mix down to mono (which would be what the TriATT would allow), just get a mono output module. Stereo mixers would be better, though, because you're going to want to step up to a spatialized output signal eventually, so my suggestion would be to look into a small performance mixer that allows CV control over audio levels (via exponential VCAs in the mixer), panning, an AUX send/return for paralleling a global effect, and mutes to drop parts of a global patch out to immediately vary the sound. Qu-bit's Mixology is probably the best value in these at present...four channels, stereo, AUX send and return, and so forth, all under voltage control for $399 which is actually pretty cheap when you consider what's built into it. And if you already have a Clouds, running the Mixology output into it, then on from the Clouds (using the Clouds as a post-mix 'playable' processor) to a stereo output would be the way I'd go.
Input-wise, I've found that Doepfer's A-119 is probably the best feature-to-value module of that sort.
Also...when speccing modules, try this trick: divide the module's price by the hp width. The lower you can get the resulting number, the cheaper the overall space utilization becomes. One of Eurorack's little secrets is that when you have room to spread out and use larger-width modules, the price-per-hp tends to go DOWN, so staying in tightly-confined cabs can actually be more spendy with respect to space used than going with something where you can use bigger modules.
Main goal is to make a modular system who is my band mate that i can jam next to on my drumset.
Melodic Voices: Pico Voice, uBraids, Microbrute
Melody Generator: o_C (in chord modes or quantermain), PNW (to clock)
LFO: PNW, Maths, (do not foresee using o_C in quadLFO mode..)
Drum Voices: Pico Drums (1 trigger- Bass, 1 trigger- Snare/clap/rim/etc), Pico DSP for drum effects
Drum Triggers: Ddrum Piezo Sensors on my acoustic snare and bass drum to trigger Pico Drums (to layer over the acoustic drum track) and maybe more piezo pads later to do things like trigger LFO/reset clock/other events)
VCA: 2hp VCA (x2) and Maths
DAW / Sampling: MPC1000 linked to modular with a-190-2
External Effects: Blue Lantern Module going to my Zoom MS70cdr to mixer
Drum Mics: Audix d6 on Bass Drum, Shure SM57 on Snare, Zoom h4n Pro Room Mic
Controllers: BeatStep Pro, Keystep
Mixer: Zed-10FX
My advice- unless you have limitless pockets and wads of cash to burn is to RUN AWAY NOW! Just kidding :-)
Eurorack is super expensive. I priced out a basic 10 module system with case and power and it was 4-5k!
I can only imagine a serious 9Ux200HP system costing 20k or more.
