It's only voted by 4 people. This means nothing.
solitud.de | YouTube | Soundcloud | Bandcamp
Yes, I would also like to know why the poor rating... AFAIK there is no difference in sound and function between the MK I and MK II. The MK I currently has 4.14 in rating...
I added the Intellijel audio interface2, and Intellijel uJack, that covers it so i can record in my daw and use headsett in the eurorack box, and now possible to use a 2nd headsett from Presonus mixer when working live. and headsett number 3 and 4 from apollo if needed when i record other music people in studio.
Thanks, now i am interested to find out what else i need to expand this world in the most interesting ways, for designing new original sounds.
Be it deep SUB bases that makes the ground shake, leads, pads, etc. Good modules that are generating sounds. this is what i look to add now, and more drums.
Good suggestions are welcome :D
Hello Lugia.
My rig is Mac, Apollo uad2, Logic X, Studio live 16.0.2 PreSonus, Roland MC-303 groovebox, Yamaha RM1x, Virus indigo access, Yamaha CS1x, Prophet-6 Sequential, Elektron Analoug Four, Digitak, Octatrack MK2, Mackie Big Knob, Speakers are Adam A77X, JBL, Bheringer, DJ gear is from Pioneer, vinyl, cd, mixer. I have a Shure SM85 Microphone. I use a Zoom H2 for sampling/recording as well.
I know how to use the equipment, i started from Commodore 64, Amiga 500 to make music, my first pure Techno machine was the Roland MC-303 in 7th grade.
Today i am 38 years turning 39 on april 24. On the 25 of april the items in the picture arrives, marking the start of my next 40 years of making Progressive! , Techno, Acid, Trance, House, Club music.
Artists that has inspired my music making are many, this are a few of them: Tony De Vit, Mac Zimms, Ricardo Ferri, Carl Cox, Silvio Ecomo, Umek, Mauro Picotto, Cari Lekebusch, Ben sims.
Recently i discovered Colin Benders in this Eurorack world.
And i strive always to have my own sound :)
I understand it has to sound good from me, and that the equipment is not everything.
But damn man, already for me before i have even one module! this is heaven and a candy store mixed with a toy store for me :D
I feel like 7th grade when i walked out of that store with a mc-303 in my hands, all over agein.. That kick sound is still the greatest, and i understand that euro rack is the way to go for me now that i can afford it.
Thank you for your reply, and any more inputt from you would be much welcomed! :D
Right...one key, I've found over many years, to making a synth behave like an instrument is that if specific aspects are grouped by their particular specialty (generator, modifier, controller, processor), then the flow around the instrument becomes clearer and more intuitive. This, in turn, changes up how you approach the instrument; instead of having function 'A' all over here and 'B' down that side or such, mingle everything together as far as playing function, but make it cohesive as far as actual functionality.
Another thing that will help here a lot is fixing the output stage. Right now, there's a couple of manual mono mixers, one of Intellijel's new sorta-stereo ones, and the output isolator itself. I really strongly suggest making the output some sort of stereo performance mixer, something that also allows VCA control over the strip levels at the very least, as well as panning if you can swing it. Shift the mono mixers to use as submixing into the final stereo strips. This way, the mixer becomes something of a playing surface, allowing you to better slot various instrumental signal paths within the cab into a cohesive stereo-out mix.
As for the AJH VCOs...one thing that will click that sound in even tighter is to get some sort of Moog CP3 clone. The CP3 circuit, if cloned properly, is actually not 100% clean; it introduces subtle nonlinearities into the outputted result that actually emphasizes certain euphonic partials. It's not distortion per se...and a bit difficult to describe unless you've ever gotten your hands on a Moog device with that particular mixer circuit (such as a modular, or the Minimoog).
Now that I've got a clearer idea of what's actually going on here, let's see...
[Had this all typed up, and MG logged me out in the time it too to write it up. But I have my own word-processor, so...take THAT, rotten, evil login script! Ha!]
OK...you will notice that there's definitely some things missing from your original build. I did tinker with this a good bit, but I kept your primary functionalities as you'd posted them pretty much intact, even improving on the ergonomics of them. The entire order of this got a lot of reworking, too...but it now has that 'subsystemic' flow that I think you'll find makes it all easier to program and play, especially with the module swaps.
Row 1 has your buffered mult and adder/mult to the far left, with the AJH glide/noise module there so that your can easily impose slewing on CVs as needed. Also, with that positioning, you can easily place the slew limiter into a CV path, then send that back to a mult and distribute it that way, giving you a couple of nice options. The Minimoog VCOs were dropped to three (which is like the real thing) and the CP3 clone from Manhattan was added. This now replicates the VCO-mixer part of the Minimoog signal path...and there's more coming about that, so keep reading.
Digital-type sources are on the right end, then the Mixup was paired with the Quad VCA so that there's a lot of possible mixing/VCA control routing options present, given that the PDO and Shapeshifter have multiple outputs and there may be different ways you'll want that working for different situations. Oh...and a mult. You needed a passive one.
Row 2 starts with modulation sources: one Disting, your o&Cs, Batumi, Maths, Quadra. I then added three Ladik ADSRs with normal and inverted outputs, which eliminated the need for the attenuverters and added three desperately-needed 4-stage EGs. An Intellijel uFold is next for waveshaping/distortion, but with CV control over waveshaping in up to three stages. Then a SE 5089 VCF...and this is the rest of the tale on the Minimoog signal path.
That filter is a pretty effective clone of the 4-pole Moog transistor ladder lowpass VCF. If you feed this directly from the CP3, you then have the actual Minimoog audio signal path, up to the final VCA. Because of this, you get the nonlinearities and euphonic...something...that the Minimoog proper tends to have. Mind you, Minimoogs had a lot of variation to them because of component tolerances and such...but this is now a pretty spot-on redux of that audio path, hence the ability to remove the fourth VCO. The two new components (especially that 5089 VCF) will more than make up for its absence.
Your Polaris is next...and now, you have two excellent VCFs of two 'flavors'. Quad VCA next to mix the VCF outs...or you can just as easily send them through the LxD, which I relocated right beside it. Or both...? At any rate, the Quad VCAs were also set up this way so that you could both use them as exponentials for audio level control or in linear mode for CV levels, and split out your mixing duties but have one or two VCAs left for linear work.
Row 3: the other Disting, placed here to work more with the quantizing modules. Your drum/bass modules come next, then a stereo mixer to sum these down and get a good stereo placement so the Bitbox has a nice stereo image to screw around with. Note that all of this is now directly over the sequencing/control section for easy routing.
Effects processing is next: looping delay and Z-DSP. This closes out that row...but notice, again, the placement: these processors are directly above the mixing/output section, again to make routing easier. Plus it allows for some routing options with ease that we'll get at in a bit.
Row 4 is control. MIDI interface, then the Pamela's, Eloquencer, Varigate and Bow Tie. The idea here is that, with things laid out like this, you can easily send in a sync clock via MIDI or USB, use that as a master, then the next several modules get to tamper with that incoming clock as needed, all in a nice line so that if you want to do some screwy things with that clock, it's easy to do. And as mentioned, the placement of all of these is right below the quants, drum and bass, and Bitbox so that all of your functionality of these things in tandem are right there, simple to route and use as a unitized whole. The Bow Tie was placed down on the end of this so that you can now easily use it either for routing CVs or audio, whatever you feel like. Plus, anything that needs to go to the VCOs can now just flow right up the left side of the cab, keeping those patchcables out of the way. Much cleaner.
The Triple VCA is in place so that you can use it to VCA submix a single strip going into the Toppobrillo Stereomix. That thing there is going to make a huge difference. It allows CV control over audio levels, panning, and AUX sends on four inputs, which also have some routing tricks such as a cue send. This also has a single AUX send (mono) and return (mono or stereo) loop, so it's possible to parallel-process part of the overall mix through quite a few things.
Your MSCL is next, to put it in place to easily dynamic-process the overall stereo mix. But since the new Happy Nerding OUT has two stereo inputs, you can do some parallel processing work with that, or send in a separate signal path, or...well, a lot of things. That aux stereo feed has a pan control to adjust the stereo image, but it's fixed-level. The main input, however, is variable, so you actually get to use that OUT as a final stereo summer, in addition to being stereo balanced outs, a headphone (1/4”) amp, and output-level metering.
So, yes...I yanked several modules out, some of which you'd mentioned but a few of which I felt were not really well-implemented, or could be done better in a smaller space (pulling the Malekko distorter in favor of the uFold, for example). Overall, though, the idea behind what I'd cut was to maximize what you'd described as the 'mission' for the build, and I think that you'll find that this arrangement actually makes it more intuitive for those, as well as suggestive of some other possibilities not really clearly shown in the original layout. But the main split here is to get the 'synthy' bits up top, and the 'controlly' bits down and all together on the lower tiers.
And given what the 'pulls' might bring on the used market, you might be able to do this for close to zero-extra. Or maybe even a little left over...I did come in at $432 less than your figure, after all!
Wow... thanks for your honest thoughts. I'll try to give more context on how I use it and my current issues with the rack. It's a real rack, btw... not just in ModularGrid. I built it up slowly over the past 2 years, but I feel lately like I've been driving in the wrong direction for a while.
I use the Eloquencer to sequence melodies/bass lines and sometimes drums, but I primarily sequence drums with the Varigate 8+. I sample various sounds from the rig into BitBox, which can take 16 trigger inputs. Sometimes I run 1 cable per channel from the VG8+ into the BitBox, and other times I run 1 channel into BowTie and then use random CV to route that to one of 8 channels on the BitBot. That's just drums/perc.
Yes, I do have a "phat" Minimoog clone building up in here with the AJH row. Call me nuts... I just love how they sound. That mixer has 3 inputs too, so sometimes I use it with the other VCOs.
The flow is intended to generally be sequencers on the left/bottom, then going from left to right / top to bottom, oscillators, filters, envelopes, and mixing. Are you suggesting rearranging them into clusters of self-contained mini-groups?
I don't really do ambient stuff, and so Telharmonic/Rings are probably the first 2 sound sources I'd give up in here. Maybe they'll make room for another filter.
My problem is that I hate to feel too constrained. I admit it's a bit of a hodgepodge, but I like to have options.
Your intuition is correct. In fact, I'm not even touching this one; you need to rip at least half (or more!) of the signal sources out, for starters. This isn't a big build, and there's a hodgepodge of ten oscillators of various sorts (that I see on first glance!). Then there's ten channels of CV/gate sequencing, and another FOURTEEN of just trig/gate. But at the same time, just two filters...? If the idea here is to create a 'phat' (which I pronounce 'pee-hat', myself; shows you what I think of the term) sound, there's other/better/cheaper ways to do that. Or if you're trying to do something West Coast and crossmodulate everything...again, other/better/cheaper ways exist.
Step back and take a few breaths. Delete this. Start over, and start smaller. You're trying to toss things that look/sound cool into a box with this and figure that that'll result in a usable instrument, and it just won't. Seriously, go back and study some others' racks (synthesists who know what they're doing, basically) and spend a bunch of time studying classic modular systems that are still classics to this day because they were done right decades ago. See how and why they work. Then start again, but either smaller or with a smaller palette of modules (Eurorack, or also perhaps MU), or both, and then grow toward something like this incrementally. Build it up in subsystems that make sense as groups of modules. Use that grouping to place things in a sensible flow pattern.
Admittedly, this seems like it's easy. And on MG, it is...which may be the sole flaw in Modulargrid. Otherwise, it's a brilliant resource, but you have to use the whole resource to get the real use out of it. It's not Legos with knobs and wires; there's a real point to how and why modular synths come out in the ways they do, both good and bad builds. And the latter can and should (because this is 'expensive shit', to quote Fela Kuti) be avoided.
Couple of things...
You say you have a studio rig. What's in it as far as instruments (ie: synths, drum machines, sequencers, etc) already? This is going to be a major key to what should go into a modular rig and will help determine what sort of focus the build needs to have.
Second: I hope you're not expecting that the equipment is the thing that will make the music work. Truth is, that's on you...not what gear is at your disposal. A modular of any workable size is a hefty expenditure, both in money to outlay for it and time spent in getting how you use it sorted out. You can have a Synthi 100 at your disposal because you had the $50-100k to drop on it...but if the talent needed to make that spendy thing really sing is lacking, that's not a wise purchase.
Last: there are a LOT of machines to 'make techno music with'. Fact is, the people who started all of this (the house guys in Chi, the Belleville 3) were working with crap they could afford from want-ads, used music shops, and pawn shops. That's what shaped how techno sounds to this day. If you don't have experience with electronic music gear on the basic levels, such as with older gear, patchables, etc and thinking starting with a modular is the 'big secret'...guess again. It would be like trying to go through driver's ed in a $500k Ferrari.
Just sayin'...
and....
a late but big thanks to another two good traders
@mopoco for gifting me a trigger man in great condition and kindly did he add some extra value.
@tumulishroomaroom for sending over here a verbos module, also in mint condition and at a very reasonable price.
I feel an unbalance in the (euro) Force. Too many oscillators? Not enough CV utilities? What would you change?
big thanks to @HomoSonoinVivo, sent over from france a good quality ultra random.
Hi i am new to this forum and new to Euro-rack, so bear with me if i do noob mistakes and ask silly questions :D
I did some research for the last 3-4 weeks, And this is now my first build, Just a humble start!
I want a machine to make techno music with in my studio, later on i can live play with it.
Got the Mantis case with green legs. later i will need a bigger case.
My Questions in my head now is, am i missing something important in this build now ?
Can i send the sound to my mixer now so i can record in my daw?
What should i prioritise to get next ? how to Expand this build for great techno music.
Any help is most welcome.
Hmmm...sometimes I even amaze me...OK, got the additional module expenditure down to $986, a $238 drop. And strangely, in the process I upped a bit of the functionality, although the initial build was a bit better fit, I thought. New version's in the same position in this thread, so have a look...but here's what was changed:
This version changes the extra VCO (Plaits) to a pair of more conventional VCOs, a Ladik and a Noise Reap uBermuda, which is a somewhat weird thing that can go into internal feedback behavior, sort of like sending a VCF into self-resonance. Went to a single VCA/mixer with those also.
Quad LFO was changed to a TAKAAB 3LFO, which offers two waveforms in a staggered timing setup. ADSRs are now Ladiks, both with normal and inverted outputs, plus I was able to squeeze in a dual AD Ladik to give you two more envelopes. I switched out the Ladik dual linear VCA for a Noise Reap pair. Eowave Poles now handles attenuation/CV/inversion, and the Tiptop Fold also offers a suboctave generator, which wasn't there before. Same sort of 4-pole transistor-ladder lowpass VCF, albeit Doepfer's version which loses the dual input mixing...but the Fold has that now, so nothing lost there.
So...yeah. Filled cab, again. Functionality a bit different and, like I said, upped a bit in a few ways. And closer to the $700-ish budget line you quoted.
As to what to get first...hmm, that's a puzzler. I sort of build things as a 'unitized' set of subsystems, which is how I'm used to modular gear working (and, for that matter, a lot of prebuilt stuff). My suggestion would be to just add along as you can, and if you can kick things down a little more with used purchases (there's loads of used modules out there if you look), then cool. Otherwise, the only other way to reliably knock things down further is to go with a bunch of DIY kit modules...which is an option if you're OK with some soldering and assembly, but otherwise, this is not too shabby.
Agree no rush as I am super busy getting up to speed with the Elektron and Nocoast gear. I will keep eyes out for a used deal on MS-20+SQ1
One last thing, and I don't mean to be picky but since I have your attention...if there are any cheaper alternatives to what you posted above, that'd be helpful to know. Thanks again!
Hi Lugia,
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond here. Much appreciated. If I could ask for one more favor...since I don't have that amount of money to spend on this right now, can you tell me which of the modules you added that can get me started. Maybe $800-$900 worth.
Thanks
Easy: start with the ES-8 and the Metropolis. That way, you can lock the Metropolis up to the DAW's sync clock, and the Metropolis is perfectly usable with the SE-02, which will allow you to start learning all of the tricks that sequencer has up its sleeve. I'd then fill out the bottom row as shown (and move the ES-8 into its place up top), allowing you to get used to the trigger sequencer, drum modules, and the performance mixer next. After that, any order that feels right should be just fine.
Yeah...I can see why they sold it. They'd not really built much out of it...added a bunch of sequencers, but not built out the voicing compliment much at all. I did fix it up, but the budget I hit was $1224, which overruns about $500 over your line. But as a result, I was able to turn this into a pretty respectable little rack. Vide:
Now...to make this work (and assuming that I'm right that this was built in a Pittsburgh EP-270), you're going to have to change one thing about the case itself. Remove the feet from the 'short' bottom, and reattach them so that you can lay this down on the larger side, what would normally be the 'back'. Basically, you're going to make this into a sloping horizontal cab instead of a sloping vertical.
And the bottom row is why. Notice: all of the control surfaces are now at the front of the cab, on an easy slope, which makes them...well, controllable controllers. The percussion sequencer is left, so that it can also work as the primary clock, for which I put the Brains (sequencing controller for the Pressure Points) next to that, and, natch, then the Pressure Points. Then the Rene, since it has its touchpad controls for changing things on the fly, and the Rosie mixer/crossfader is over at the right side so that your line out can go right off the side of the cab.
Top row: added a passive mult to do some CV splitting from the controller row or the Lifeforms' MIDI converter, or both. The next two were in the original build, but are mainly voicing, so they went up top along with a Plaits (the new version of the Braids) to double the Braids, then a Quad VCA because this original build was almost devoid of useful VCAs, plus it can also submix the sources.
Middle row is mainly modulation and modifiers, save for the Erica Pico Seq on the left, poised to use the Percussion Sequencer's clock. Added a Quad LFO for some extra basic cyclic modulation, then the Maths for the...well, Maths things, and a dual ADSR envelope for the VCF duties. A TriATT is there for offset voltages, attenuation/inversion of modulators, then a simple CV-controlled distortion module starts off the modifier chain. Next up, a very serious, very vintage character VCF: G-Storm's replica of the 'pre-lawsuit' ARP 2600 low-pass, the infamous Moog ladder copy. Beefy VCF...was very lacking. It can also handle two inputs for a bit of submixing. Then the Rings and DSP at the end to pass through to the Rosie.
Yeah, this thing was a mess...it seemed like whoever had it before had something of an idea of where they wanted to go with the build, but either couldn't get the resources together or, just as possibly, got utterly confused and gave up after adding too much of not exactly the right things. But this is a major improvement...as well as a very usable instrument with the additions and major structural reworking.
Thanks to @SpaceyJimbo I bought a Phonogene off him and he answered all my questions politely and quickly (my first time using this marketplace), was completely reliable and fast with delivery! Good price too would happily buy from him again!!
Takes time...you can't just roll up to Synths-R-Us with a panel truck and a briefcase of cash (well, you could, but what would be the point?) and haul off everything in one shot. It's good to have a routine schedule for acquiring gear, but trying to build Alessandro Cortini's studio in one shot would result in an unusable studio.
solitud's big-time right about one thing, tho...that rawer, early piece. Like I said, MS-20 Mini + SQ-1. True, there's people who carp and moan about how the Mini doesn't sound like a 'vintage' MS-20, and there's some truth there: it certainly doesn't sound quite like a 30+ year old box full of 30+ year old components with 30+ years of power cycling, usage, etc. But being one of the few people that I know of to have unboxed a minty-fresh 1st-gen MS-20 back in 1980 when they were still rolling off the production line and then being able to compare/contrast what I vividly recall of that synth with the minty-fresh 1st-gen Mini replica, let me assure you: it's a VERY faithful replica.
Hi all,
So I just bought a prebuilt rack off of someone. Link below. Can I get feedback on it. I mostly play guitar and piano, but have wanted to get into synthesizers for quite some time, specifically modular. I have a small budget of about $700 more dollars to get any essentials that I may still need. I was hoping to primarily get a lot of percussive sounds and ambient sounds out of this.
Thanks in advance.
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_645322.jpg
He does have tons of gear in his studio and many computers! I'd love to have a synth cave like this guy.
If I understand Mr Cortini right you already have anything you need. He said he can just use the Octatrack to create a song. The 0-Coast is your Buchla. The Analog 4 your EMS Synti AKS (o.k. that is an exaggeration).
If you want to expand: your sources are more on the well behaved clean side. Maybe you can add something more raw analog. A vintage VCO mono or a small Eurosystem (this is ModularGrid for a reason).
And you need of course a stompbox style larger than live fx unit, like BigSky, Mercury 7, Space, Bam ...
solitud.de | YouTube | Soundcloud | Bandcamp
I just watched the cool video with Alessandro Cortini the synth master from NIN and he has a very expensive impressive cave of gear!
He has tons of Buchla and vintage synths. What would be a good setup for me to get to learn and not go broke to get those sounds? Right now I have an Elektron Octatrack, Elektron Analog 4 and Make Noise 0-coast that do sampling/sequencing and some basic patches. Looking to expand this on a budget that won't cost me a fortune.
Well, I sort of went a little over the top, mainly because I'd opted for a Mantis case, which offers a decent power supply in a very portable (you can even get a matching gigbag for it from Tiptop), inexpensive, and lightweight small case. The Mantis, however, is 2 x 104hp, not a single row, so I figured "ok...let's see if something that really can be a modular stand-out can be cobbled together here, something that gives this user some serious power in a portable cab while still keeping it controllable". Ergo:
OK, so it's not quite so minimal. However, this build not only functions as a modular guitar processing rig, it also has the capability of eliminating the need for several stompboxes. Let's look at this mo'fo...
Top row: first up is the input. Notice that this isn't merely a guitar-in jack. That module also contains the proper level and impedence matching for a guitar-in, plus it has an envelope follower and gate extractor. Envelope followers are the basic circuit in an auto-wah...but in this, you just get an adjustable voltage curve related to the input dynamics which can be sent anywhere as a control voltage. The gate extractor gets set to fire a gate signal when the input level crosses a certain level, so there's a lot of possibilities there, from triggering envelopes to audio 'squaring' the guitar signal. This has two sets of mults associated with it: the active is for splitting/buffering your audio so that it can parallel-feed modules, and the passive's two sections are for distributing the envelope follower and gate.
Then the audio processing chain (although, unlike a normal signal chain in a synth patch, there's no need to serially patch these, hence the active mult): octave divider, wavefolder (CV-able distortion/harmonic folding), Polaris VCF/phaser, EMW Triple Bandpass for three-way swept resonances, a Chronoblob delay (which has an insert point in its feedback path, perfect for mangling what the delay does), mono algorithmic reverb, a CV-able panner (useful for not only panning, but deriving stereo for the last two processors), the Erica Black Hole DSP for all sorts of digital mayhem, and a 4ms Stereo Looping Delay. I tried to get as much of this as was possible under CV control for modulation. To which...
Bottom row: the first four modules are ADDAC Pedal Integrators. Each of these allows for an expression pedal and a footswitch connection. The pedal can scale CV in all sorts of ways, and the footswitch can either be momentary for firing a trigger or, if held, a gate pulse, or you can use an on/off latching switch to turn a gate signal on and off. This allows the build a sizable degree of foot control integration, which is the typical guitar FX control paradigm.
Then the next 'thing'...this is a full-on Erogenous Tones Blip/Radar modulation setup. Basically, it's a complex but easily controllable array of AD/AR envelopes which can fire on trigger, in sequence, in looping arrangements, etc. This is the primary modulation source for the whole damn thing...and I'd say, as such, it's perfectly suited. The Blip is a controller for the Radar, allowing fast reconfiguration for the whole mess and, in a certain sense and depending on how this thing get patched up, allows for global behavior changes for the entire cab, depending on how much of the audio chain is being modulated by the Radar. It's VERY comprehensive; I suggest reading the module descriptions to see what it's capable of before deciding if it's 'too much' or not.
Two voltage controllable slope gens next...sort of more complex versions of the Radar envelopes on steroids. Then noise gen, dual VCO/LFO, and a fun little Doepfer module that incorporates a ring modulator (hence one of the VCO/LFOs), a sample and hold (that's why there's two VCO/LFOs; you need one to clock that) and a slew limiter to 'smear' the behavior of the S&H so it can be used as a randomly-fluctuating modulation source for an effect or two. Natch, you can also kill the slew lim, and that random behavior then becomes stepped.
Kickass 6-2 stereo mixer next, with all input levels under VCA control, manual stereo panning. A MSCL stereo comp/limiter after that before the Bastl Ciao! output, which also has an aux stereo in so that you can send one more stereo pair into the balanced outputs post-mixer, or you can use it to parallel the comp/limiter, or...well, lots of things.
This was sort of a bitch to work on due to the Mantis's depth constraint, but I double-checked on that and everything does fit. And at 1335mA on the +12V and 752mA on the -12 (no 5V!), we're nowhere near the Mantis's current limits. Sure, it's not quite so 'minimal'...but as a performance-capable cab, this pretty much trashes a typical pedalboard. There are so many control/modulation/processing possibilities here, it ain't funny! And a lot of it can be parallelled, using your expression controllers to fade effects processors in and out of the overall mix via the mixer VCAs. Raw power.
Oh, yeah...you won't even need an amp to practice with this, as the Ciao! incorporates a stereo headphone amp. Thought of everything!
Thanks, Lugia. I didn't think much about the case/pwr here. I was just trying to see if the modules added up to something meaningful. Right now I'm imagining that I will get a minimal case that's at least 3U/104hp, powered. I have assumed with the kind of thing I'm imagining would be fine with whichever basic power supply I might end up with (uZeus, e.g.).
Well. I printed this Setup and pinned it on my wall. Better than any Pinup Girl.
Wondering with what modules i should start :D
Thank you for your help Lugia.
Yea the BSP and Keystep and SQ-1 are standby essentials for modular gear no doubt bang for the buck. Ideally I'd want a sequencer and sampler as part of the modular system as I hear they are lot of fun in modular gear!
I would love to try out a Carbon sequencer. For now been busy learning my Octatrack and 0-coast as they pair up well. I can sequencer/sample and mangle both for lot of possible options in a small footprint.
For real portability, BeatStep Pros. You can't beat 'em for a grab-n-go sequencer. 2 channels of CV/gate/exp, 8 drum trigger outs, sync I/O plus MIDI. Plenty of scale definitions, plus loads of user programmability via the USB port + software, plus they're built like all the other Arturia stuff: pretty rugged. And cheap at $249. But if we're talking the larger-scale stuff, look into the Koma Komplex...too much to describe here, but it's about the do-all of analog sequencing environments-in-a-box. And, natch, the ultra-cheap SQ-1 for when you want to drop a sequencer into a setup somewhere and you want a couple lying around for that purpose.
Digital-wise, the Kilpatrick Carbon's not bad: 4 channels of CV/gate, SD storage, plenty of USB and MIDI options for $700. But beyond that, it would make more sense to build some MIDI-CV stuff into a modular cab for extensive control via a computer or iPad; for that, the Expert Sleepers FH-1 and its expander, the FHX-1 (you can add up to seven) is just about the perfect solution, as you can then use MIDI, CV from Silent Way, etc with the appropriate MIDI converter box (Perfect Circuit suggest the iConnect MIDI 2+).
I'll puzzle on the mixer idea...give me a day or two to compile some suggestions.
Yeah I want a decent analog portable mixer as space is limited where I live currently.
For sampler/sequencer with modular gear, what models do you like? I have an Elektron Octatrack which is fine since it sampler/sequence 8 tracks over MIDI but no modular connections so I have to use MIDI or convert from CV to audio adapter which is a pain.
Look for Soundcraft, A&H...but also, look under 'mixing console' or 'mixing desk' for search terms. The things that are out there will make your brain implode...for example, there's a listing for an Amek 501 out in Hemet, in your part of the world, 40x8. Granted, it has four strips with repairable issues, but this thing is $2500. A couple of decades back, this would've set you back a few tens of thousands of bucks!
The issue is twofold: in studio settings, so many people have shifted to mixing 'in the box' that proper desks don't get used for typical commercial production these days. And live, road companies and venues are dumping analog desks in favor of smaller digital ones. And this...is dumb. Well, maybe not dumb per se, but the end-result is that devices that cost many thousands and which would've been out of reach for most individual users are now stoopid-cheap. And for electronic music production, I still think that a mixing desk is awfully useful; sure, anyone can mix in their computer, but it loses something in that you can't 'get at' the sound when tracking or mixing and work the controls in real-time as the noises fly by. In a way, it's the selfsame argument in favor of modular synthesizers, just applicable to different gear. So nowadays, you can get a real, full-scale DESK for a few thou at worst.
Granted, then you have to figure out how to use it. But that's not that difficult, no matter how intimidating a large-scale mixer looks. Also, big PA desks can work in a studio environment (if you have space for them!) even if they don't have the ability to 'flip' channel inputs. Just set them up as 'split' desks, and remember which strips are your DAW returns.
I feel as if I may have opened yet another can of worms...
what brand of mixer would you shop for on ebay? I like Allen and Heath if used value can be found for a 16 channel mixer.
It was an limited-run earlier product...several years back, from around when the reissue came out, and it wasn't cheap, something like $1000 compared to $449 for the MS-20 Mini new and maybe about $400 or less used. At the same time, though, the keyboard version is still very much worth having, plus there's no jack conversion needed (the original '20 as well as the kit module used 1/4" jacks). It's not as large as the full-size version (I've had both at this point), so it's a bit handier, plus the keyboard also has a mod wheel and momentary button switch for various uses with their own patchpoints, which can actually be linked up to something other than the '20.
But, yes...sample-loops made with this can be made to sound like some sort of circuit-damage nightmare when you feed that input section with the right (ie: 'wrong') things. Another nice thing is that its matching SQ-1 sequencer is set up for the Hz/V scaling already and that its sync should lock up nicely with the Volcas. Not only that, it outputs MIDI and MIDI over USB (yeah...it can sequence software synths, too), plus has a special port for those littleBits modules, and it's built like a tank. Damn nice for $99! And yes, it'll also talk just fine to the 0-Coast...and can do that and talk to the MS-20 Mini with the right scaling at the same time (albeit with only 8 steps each...can't chain row A and B when doing that trick). I really think that it and the Arturia BSP are perhaps some of the finest affordable sequencing hardware...perhaps EVER.
Additional mixers: eBay. You can actually get really amazing steals on higher-end PA mixers from several years back for dimes on the dollar. Just a cursory glance shows several small-format units that originally came in at $1200 or more selling for about $300 and less at present. If this sounds like an idea, there's several things to make sure of, but most notable is that you do not want a mixer with onboard effects. This is because you don't necessarily find the best effects units in these in terms of tweakability, and you want total control over your AUX bus architecture instead of being locked into a manufacturer's idea of what you should be doing. PM me at some point on here and we can discuss this, since it's a bit outside the 'synth' topic zone.
Yea the mS-20 is solid especially the pure synth version:
http://www.korg.com/us/products/dj/ms_20mkit/
Pair that with my Elektron Analog 4 and Octatrack and the other modular gear and have wacky industrial dirt techno insanity!
I already have a Volca Beats that as you suggested can feed in percussion to the MS-20. I don't want the keyboard version but having trouble finding this pure synth kit. Maybe it is a new product release from Korg?
Anyways been learning my new Elektron gear the A4 and Octatrack as well as 0-coast and they integrate nicely together.
I ran an experiment this weekend: control the 0-coast with the A4, layer FX on top of that from the A4, sample that into the Octatrack and then add slices and resample with dirt from the Octatrack like dark reverb for some madness.
Since the Octatrack has room for 4 devices to connect, that would let me hook up the MS-20 and sample/mangle that.
Ideally I would need an additional sampler/mixer to add for the modular gear.
Well, don't discount the MS-20 Mini...if you add that 'nexus cab', it integrates wonderfully with the scalers and inverters. But even without it...well, gonna let you in on a little trade secret...
The MS-20's input section, for normally-pitched instruments, sucks. It mistracks, follows stronger harmonics, etc. BUT...there IS a way to use that to your advantage and get lots of squeally, crunchy percussives out of it. What you do there is to run a percussion source with indefinite pitches into it, patch and adjust the various bits...and VOILA: instant Aphex-style industrialoid acid-type weirdness! The Volca Beats is perfect for this, although my preference is (like Aphex) a TR-606. You just send the pitch-to-CV converter to the VCOs or filter cutoffs, the envelope follower to the filter cutoffs, trigger extraction to the trigger-in, and add some of the bandpass-filtered audio to the VCF. It's insane...and given that you can get a used MS-20 Mini for under $400 these days and an SQ-1 matching sequencer (matches the Volcas, too) for $100 new, its cheap and potent for the money! Put that against the 0-Coast, and you've got some serious sonic mayhem!
With a 606, it has to be heard to be believed...that box's cheezy 'chinnnng' cymbal turns into all sorts of metallics screeches and yowls, for example. Truly an endless source of rhythm processing, that synth.
Couple of questions: first of all, which case do you have in mind here? I can see a tile row, but is this an Intellijel cab or a 'standard format tile' 4U 84hp case? Second, if it's not an Intellijel, did you have a powered option in mind, or unpowered?
Last: do you think this size is actually sufficient due to portability constraints, etc? The Phonogene and Maths eat a lot of space, and even though this is just a processor cab, you might find that going to two 3U rows makes more sense in the long run.
Well, more space = more...uh...more:
Majorly stepped up, with a lot of new things added. Ten VCOs now, and accordingly, a buffered mult was added in addition to some other passives. Two Plaits, plus eight Doepfers in two Quad VCOs. Different wavefolder with a suboctave divider. More mixers (the Levit8 was moved to allow it to 'split' for audio and CVs if needed). Potentially up to 14 envelopes (the addition of the Stages allows a lot of flexibility with envelopes and other modulation sources), with the Quadrangle adding complex staged/looping ADs x 4. Added a Shifty analog shift register to allow the Metropolis to arpeggiate out four step-shifted CVs from the single CV out. Switched to an EMW 4xADSR for the ADSR EGs, plus added an EMW 4-stage phaser and a Flame FX-16CV for stereo effects. Changed the Mordax to an O'Tool mk2 for space considerations.
Then there's that bottom row...a lot of change there: Metropolis is still present, but I added an 8-channel EMW trigger sequencer (no, no menus there...has a shifting track display with '0' and '1' for trigger on/off indicators...very easy to use, rather 909-ish) and a section of drum modules (TR-606 4-voice clone, 8-voice with Linn LM-1 hits, and an Erica Drums with 16-bit samples). Then a HUGE WMD Performance Mixer setup w/ mute expander...this gives eight channels w/ input VCAs, automatable mutes, two FX busses, metering and cue sends, and a couple of other tricks, this into a Bastl Ciao! with a second stereo in line for the balanced outs.
Note that this will not work on a standard power supply setup that MDLR Case puts in their cabs; it will require the extra Doepfer PSU-3 option, but with that, the power will coast along smoothly. And it goes without saying that this blows your 4000 EUR original limit all to hell...but it's way more powerful and capable than the original build attempts.
I've been reading and reflecting on modular synthesis for several weeks and have begun seeing what my route forward might look like. I'm an experimental guitarist with a lot of performance experience, and I would like to incorporate a modular rig to my setup, and perhaps eventually transition to a more modular-centered approach. For now, however, I imagine the modular rig to be in service of the guitar rig.
I've come up with a very simple modular set-up that is to take a guitar signal as input and which works just with that. I've included a percussive element for ornamentation, and I have placed a mixer at the end because I assume I need to focus and condition the signal for output. I've included a Maths for general utility. After getting this kind of setup working I will begin to add more filtering and processing modules.
Here's the screenshot.
I would be grateful for feedback that might show me what I'm missing/forgetting. I'm also not sure about power and output. The mixer might not be necessary, e.g. Many thanks!
Thank your very much for your feedback.
Ok i think i decided on a Case. As i know me i tend to spend a lot in something that sounds good an i will probably fall in love with modular very soon. So i think i will get a quite big first case. 12U 114HP from MDLR Case
Not sure if the PSU-3 is a good PSU for this Rack. But 2000mA sounds nice, but not enough if i want to fill up the rack.
So i set it up here and played around with your recommendations. Im not so sure if i can get into the 4vox. It looks like fiddeling in menues and i want to avoid that.
Also i ignored my 4000 EUR limit but i left some spaces. So maybe you have some ideas how to fill the whole Rack with modules (maybe more utilies) that makes sense (the fun part)?
But money matters and so i have to start with a very basic Setup (probably even lower than my 4000 EUR Limit). But as i am only human and like to dream, i wonder how you would fill up the rack :D
Cool thanks Lugia yeah I am digging Make Noise so far and amazed what I can get out of just one single tiny box in the 0-coast with a few simple patches and tweaks and very Buchla sounding on a budget so the package would be tons of fun. I think that my next step is to try out these different systems at place like Noise Bug or Perfect Circuit Audio in the near future. I spent most of the weekend trying to figure out how to use Elektron Octatrack to sample and record tracks from my 0-coast, Analog 4, and Volca Beats. It took me a long time to figure this out and I still have a lot to learn but it is powerful box to mangle and record samples for playback and editing without a computer. Here is what I got done:
Since it will take me a good few months at the very least to get the foundations on these three boxes that gives me time to hopefully save up for a full blown modular setup as well as to try some out! I do like the sounds I hear from the Elby Serge type systems as well as Buchla of course. The point about having a Plankton Ants and Koma Field kit to use as supplement voice/texture and mixer is great as well. I think these would be quite an awesome starter setup to modular world and keep me busy for many years and then can always add a few custom racks with a special modules afterwards.
There's quite a bit wrong here...first of all, if you're using a powered rack, have you confirmed that it can handle the 5V rail current draw from that Metasonix module? If not, you'd either have to employ a Metasonix (or another similarly hefty) power supply that can handle the tube filament current draw, because a lot of basic Eurorack supplies cannot deal with the operating current draw, to say nothing of the much shorter but potentially greater startup inrush draw.
Second: the Neutron...does not appear to actually exist yet. Sweetwater, for example, doesn't even list it...and they had an advance listing for the Model D for way over a year prior to when Uli finally got around to (likely not getting his ass sued by Moog and) getting them on the shelves. In contrast to the Metasonix powering issue, I don't think any Eurorack power setups are capable of powering up a fictional device.
Third: there's several discontinued modules in here, one of which has already been superceded by its manufacturer (Braids; now Plaits).
Last: if part of the plan is to use some of this as an 'insert' in Cubase paths, there's another way to do this...let's pull out the monkey wrenches...
OK...now this makes more sense! (Or rather, it would make more sense if MG's forum had actually linked the right image instead of the empty case. If that's still showing here, click the case and the correct image should pop up!)
To start with, the ES-8 can handle either audio I/O via USB or ADAT input to provide CVs via Silent Way. That cut a lot of stuff back really quick! I then added a quad wavetable module which also can handle MIDI and does 4-voice polyphony for that 80s-ish Thomas Dolby sort of thing, plus a Quad VCO for audio sources or stacking as one honkin' big single VCO. Ring mod via a uMod, then an 8 channel mixer that can either configure as 8-1 or 4-2.
Processing provides a waveshaper for distortion/folding, Doepfer's version of a 'wave animator' to get that sweepy sawtooth sound, sort of akin to the Roland 'Supersaw', then your Jove JP-6 clone filter, plus a clone of the ARP 2600 'pre-lawsuit' LPF...both of which also have dual inputs for further mixing purposes.
Bottom row: passive mult (you probably won't need a buffered one with this setup), noise, S&H, and random modules with Doepfer's clone of the Buchla 'Source of Uncertainty'. Then modulators: Batumi, Maths, and a Quad ADSR. Veils handles some mixing as well as the ability to shear off a VCA or two for CV amplitude. The neat little Ginko Sampleslicer handles your sample-manipulation, Warps for more processing and the 20-band vocoder. Stereo mix via the 4-in Doepfer stereo mix, plus the Happy Nerding output has a second parallel stereo in to allow you to take a second audio path out via that same balanced stereo pair.
This should fit all of the functions you mentioned above, and fits in an Erica 2 x 126hp cab. The total came out to about $5200...but that would be in USA pricing, and since I used a lot of stuff here that tends to cost considerably less in the EU, we even seem to be fairly close to your 4k EUR budget constraint! Flows better, works better, no power surprises (the Erica 126 case [NOT the skiff!] has a very beefy linear power supply for very quiet and ample DC), and no fictional devices! Works loads better, I think!
Given a tossup between the Shared System or the Endorphins, I'm more drawn to the MakeNoise stuff. Endorphins is nice, and it's certainly very West Coast-centric, but I think it tends to be overpriced for what it is. On the other hand, the lowest-end Shared System is $1200 more than the Endorphins...but at the same time, it's more complex and capable, specifically designed for portability, and has room for internal expansion -- the layout's not fixed.
One other thing, too...the basic 'CV Bus' Shared System is already a holy terror in terms of functionality when compared with a lot of other prebuilts. Costs $3700...and actually, I think you wind up getting your money's worth and more besides from it. It's also something that has its origins in Alessandro Cortini's rig, so the musical track record you're concerned about already has some proof to it there.
[Time passes, nagging concern gets worked on]
HOT...damn! Check this out, instead of the format switcher box in the PCA bundle:
OK...now THIS is superior gear, dammit! Check it...
Top row contains a couple of attenuverters, then an entire setup to allow for four stompbox inserts...buffered mult for up to 1-4 division, then four Syinsi FX send/return tiles, paired with a 4-1 audio mixer.
Middle: format switcher heaven! Bananas to 3.5mm and also 1/4". In the middle, also...a 2hp 4-1 mixer, a switchable mult (either 2 four-way or 1 eight-way) and a gate/trigger diode OR combiner.
Bottom row...big surprise...mults and a pair of Syinsi scalers, to work with the dual inverter in the middle. Why? Well, with these, you can also perfectly integrate an MS-20 Mini into this whole mess! Bidirectional, too...there's a scaler and inverter for both a 'to' and 'from' function. Also, more attenuverters and a couple of att-offsets in case there's a need (invariably, there always is!) for some DC offset voltage for transposition, shifting modulation waveforms, etc etc.
All this fits in a Pulplogic Zissou LBZ54 for portability, self-powered. A bit spendy...but the idea here is that, since you're considering a real leap into patchables and cross-format connection, THIS is the permanent solution! It can function effectively as a crossconnection nexus, with the sort of utility bits you'd want right there.
Hi guys.
I like to get into the world of modular.
What i have:
- A budget around 4000 EUR.
- A DAW (cubase 9.5) with an RME Raydat Interface.
- A Beringer ADA8200
- A SE-02 Synth
- Komplete Kontrol, Maschine Studio
- A lot of Plugins and Softsynth
As you can see, I am/was a VST only Guy.
What i do:
Most of my Productions fall into Synthpop, Futurepop and Synthwave. Allways mixed with some 8bit Chiptune Sounds. Sometimes i like it even a little harsh going into heavy Distortion and running the Synth thru GuitarAmp (simulations...)
What i want:
I want a to go modular. With buying my first analoge synth (SE-02) i think this little machine sounds so amazing. I tried to emulate the se-02 with my u-He Diva. I came close but maybe only in my imagination, that little box sounded fuller and fatter. But after a few weeks i reached the limitations. After all it is 3 OSC -> Mixer -> Filter with 2 envs and a delay.
I want this (becourse i know how to program sounds in need quickly), but i want more.
I want to play may Modular with my Komplete Kontrol Keyboard and record it into cubase. As i have 3 ADAT in/out free (only one is connected to my ada8200), i can probably use Expert Sleepers Stuff for that purpose.
I want route signals out of cubase, run them thru Hardware. And i want modules that just cannot be done with some VSTs (or in a way better soundquality) I have some tube distortion, ringmodulation and maybe a vocoder in mind.
Is my sound is often 80ties related i would love filters from juno, but of course a moog filter is also nice. Maybe i can even add my Chiptune passion later on. So what do you think of my Rack. As i am totaly new, i probably forgot something.
Colors are a mess - you should get some new shaders from Tess in the Tower
Great design, really excited for this one!
Thank you very much, Lugia - I will go for more envelopes for sure.
Great idea, Lugia! Ok so another idea- what are your thoughts on the Make Noise Black and Gold System? It has the good modules from Make Noise that can be used later on as well. Also what are your thoughts on the wacky looking cartoonish yellow Endorphins.es package- a good system for industrial techno or no?
Yeah, that's the bundle that works best for the Phenol...quite familiar with it.
If that's the general idea, my take on how to approach this would be, in order: 0-Coast (which you have), Phenol bundle, Field Kit (because at that point, you will need a mixer), then the Modulor114. Then...surprise, surprise...the Ants!, because at that point you can break it out in all directions and no longer have to depend on its sound production alone. It becomes part of all of the other patchables for beefing their capabilities up, making it an 'expander' for the whole rig rather than something with an inherently weak sound in of itself.
Then...once you get up to speed on that setup...add a very simple Buchla device. In fact, what I have in mind is only two modules in a LEM3: the 252e Polyphonic Rhythm Generator and a 223e Kinesthesic Input Port/Controller. Yeah...that's about $6k, but it gives you a combination master performance controller and sequencer which can either patch directly to the Phenol or, via a format changer or two more, can interface directly with ALL of the rig, giving you the rhythmic/CV sequencer plus a 3-space multiassignable touchplate controller. Terrifying! But it integrates the entire pile of stuff as a singular instrument, and in essence, you've already built the 'rack' out of the patchables. If you did feel the need to add Eurorack (or other) modules after that point, the amount needed would likely be minimal, and limited to exotic devices, as all of the basics would be handled in the integrated patchable rig.
