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When you compare the features and prices, on the one hand with eurorack mixer modules, and on the other hand with external mixers, things quickly become clear... But, especially in 'live' situations, it is difficult (or sporty :) to do without a mixing solution in the modular itself.

For my part, I adopted the following solution: if I want to stay warm, comfortably snuggled up on the modular side, it is a set of modules that will allow me to mix. Mono and/or stereo submixers (Doepfer A-138s and Befaco StMix), then a final hub (Erica Synths Black Stereo Mixer V3), and finally an output module (4ms Listen IO). Some other modules, which can be useful for other tasks, come in reinforcement if necessary (DivKid Mutes, Intellijell Tetrapad and Planar, Vcas, etc.)

If things become more serious, I believe that only an external mixing via a DAW, for example, will allow to work with precision (with Eqs, volume or filter automations, compressions, etc.) In this case, a module like the Expert Sleepers ES-9 (or ES-8) will be useful.

Everyone may freely work in their own way, only the pleasure of playing, and the result (sometimes also ;) count.

I came to the conclusion a while back that there are no perfect mixers out there in Eurorack.
I'm ending up with a hotch-potch of mixers to do the job, but this approach does work as you work on Sub-mixing before hitting a mixer you spent a bit more money on for the main outs.
You can get very well featured outboard mixers second hand on ebay etc for a fraction of the price of Eurorack that you would take up a full row of rack space, though I guess if you are doing a lot of Send-and-returns then you will end up filling rack space with modules to do that for the outboard gear.

Its a tough choice.

I am contemplating using a basic VCO to design my own kicks.

You can do that easily with any basic vco. Plug a decay into V/Oct and another decay for the vca. Trigger them together. Works pretty well! Using two separate decays gives you more flexibility to scale both level and length of the V/Oct decay.

That being said, I can recommend the Can I Kick It module from Skull&Circuits very highly. It has two of these circuits. You can control the V/Oct and VCA decays separately, but also cross-modulate them for more fun. It's a very good sounding modules with a bone piercing kick. There's also a pitch in. While it's not V/Oct, with some scaling I managed to use it as a bass synth

EDITED Dec 16th 2023, 08:05

I got this because for some reason there are no good eurorack mixers with effects sends and pans that are reasonably priced. This one fit exactly what I needed. The build quality is A+. There are 2 issues though.

1-The layout is just dumb. They didn't lay it out like a typical sequencer as a grid. HATE THAT.
2-The mute buttons are cramped in click switches. Not a major thing, but I can't really perform with mutes like that.

Good mixer for what it is otherwise. I'd recommend it just for the sends alone. If you have detailed needs, you're going to have to whip out a grand or simply use external gear.

Currently I don't honestly own any "opinionated" hardware unless you count the Moog Mavis. However, I did buy a Poly Beebo just to use the Marbles port on my samplers/synths, and I also use it a lot in VCV Rack. Despite all the options available with computers and other modules, Marbles is just a nice, simple, organized, yet highly distinct way to randomize stuff gently or intensely, and I'm not sick of it it.

EDITED Dec 15th 2023, 18:08

Would some granular stuff fit this 'category'? I have MISO Cornflakes and yes it does things you would expect, but you can get into some pretty wild territory with it too...probably the same for other granular modules.

-- jb61264

Speaking of Granular, and if I'm understanding renken correctly, I think a good comparison might be Morphagene and ADDAC112. They are both Granular modules but they feel very different. The ADDAC is like a supercomputer, it looks and feels analytical, it has a lot more functions and options for CV control, but that also means it can be harder to use. You can get lost with too many options and too many controls. Morphagene feels more like an "instrument" if that makes any sense. It's like some of the decisions you have to make with the ADDAC112 are already made for you by the Morphagene. It is not as capable but it is easier to "play". The ADDAC is a totally blank slate, the Morphagene carries with it some of the designer's artistic vision. And frankly I love them both.

I have had very little opportunity to play with them but right now the "opinionated" modules that interest me the most are from Bizarre Jezabel.

Smart communication and fine transaction with @dara
Recommended !

The SOMA lyra effects??

some sites say its a 52mm depth, and 39mm here, who's right ?

ㅇMaths: 부드러운 파형을 조각하여, 사운드 원소스로 활용
ㅇMilkyway: " SHIMMER REVERB" 선택

ㅇ사운드 주재료: Math, octave 밸브 강약조절 of Panharmonium

Would some granular stuff fit this 'category'? I have MISO Cornflakes and yes it does things you would expect, but you can get into some pretty wild territory with it too...probably the same for other granular modules.

Not sure how to update these specs since they're manufacturer-approved and MI has ceased operations, but the specs do not match the documentation. The actual specs from the updated documentation page:

Width 12hp (correct)
Depth 25mm (not 10mm!)
+12V 70mA (this is in a previous revision)
-12V 70mA (as above)

The depth one is probably worth noting, I don't think it hurts to assume a higher power draw in general.

I think I would miss all the other awesome sounds that Plaits is capable of if I had to use it for kicks. I have a Kickall and a Tea Kick. I like the great big fat bouncy deep kicks that those guys can do. But I would also like something that is tighter and punchier. 'Course, I'm always looking for something! LOL!

Hi :)
I am contemplating using a basic VCO to design my own kicks.
I am making mainly techno/dub techno/electro.
I am using a Michigan Synth SY0.5 and/or a MI Plaits to design my kicks and other hats/claps/percs.
Yet I am looking into more options for designing my kicks mainly. I am happy with Plaits and SY0.5 (or sometimes samples) for various other perc elements (hats/claps/perc).
I understand that using a basic VCO with various waveforms would also require a mixer (to eventually mix the various waveshapes), some EG (preferably ASR or ADSR) and some VCAs.
- I have a PipSlope Mk2, a Doepfer A-140 (ADSR with a Retrig input which can be interesting for adding some variation as well as an inverted out) and a XAOC Zadar for EGs.
- I also have a basic VCA (Doepfer A130-2)
I would need:
1) A basic mixer: would a Doepfer A-138n (basic 4 inputs) be good enough or a mixer/polarizer (more sound design options) like a Doepfer A-138j would be better?
2) A basic VCO: what should I look into? Bear in mind that this VCO would be used mainly for this purpose. Now I could also use it for other purposes :)
NOTE:
1) I am limited by space (as ever...).
2) I do processing outside my eurorack, therefore compression and saturation are not considered.
Any advice would be gladly appreciated.
Best,
L

-- Loersatz

I'm in almost the same boat as you at the moment...trying to decide which way to go with drums (and especially bass/kick). I also am interested in rolling my own kicks, but use Plaits as well. Unfortunately, no advice to give, but I will certainly keep an eye on this thread to see what wisdom others are able to provide, and which direction you choose after consideration. Best of luck! :)

There is the Shakmat Gemini's Path which I'm considering getting, for keeping things in the rack but giving you full Pump Control!

Hi @Jukeshoe,
Thanks for your feedback, much appreciated.
I have a relatively small setup as well but enough to have fun (9U 84hp).
Here is the link:
I am still unsure which way I am going in terms of drums: I do like the idea of patching my own kick but again, space IS crucial, as you can see :) I am in no rush though and with Plaits and SY0.5, I am good to go.

Hey @Jukeshoe,
Would you mind sharing what type of (basic?) oscillator to choose to design a kick?
I posted something here: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/12677
Not sure this is the right place :)
Thank you,
L
-- Loersatz

Happily!

I use a Dixie II+.

That said, while I will often patch my kick from scratch (also use Plaits), one of the things I find most lacking in my current small setup (other than ASDR) is a quick and easy bass drum that doesn't burn maths and 3-4 channels of vca and/or Plaits.

If your setup can support it, though, might be worth it.

So, while capable of getting a good kick sound, maybe not the most elegant solution?

EDITED Dec 14th 2023, 17:39

Hey @Jukeshoe,
Would you mind sharing what type of (basic?) oscillator to choose to design a kick?
I posted something here: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/12677
Not sure this is the right place :)
Thank you,
L

Hi :)
I am using various solutions to design my kicks:
1) Michigan Synth SY0.5
2) MI Plaits
3) Sometimes using samples but I am not convinced anymore :)
Nevertheless, I am still pursuing the best solution to design my kicks as ready made ones (macro oscillators or other dedicated kick modules) do not offer as much sound design possibilities.
I have been gathering info from YT and I come to the conclusion that I am more enclined to use a basic VCO with various waveforms, an EG (ADSR or ASR) and a VCA to yeld the results I am aiming at.
Here are a couple of resourceful videos in case it can help:
- The Modular Spaghetti Solutions - Making a Eurorack modular Techno kick drum with an envelope generator. No VCA needed
- Sinus - Tech Talk 004 Make Your Own Kickdrum In Eurorack Pure Analog Deep Full Live Patching
- Thomann - How to create the perfect kick drum | Lets Patch | Thomann
- DJ TechTools - How To Make An Analog Kick with Tobi Neumann
- Voltage Control Lab - Eurorack Modular Kick Drum Tutorial
- Stazma - Analog Kick Drum tutorial: Stazma Modular Tips & Tricks
-- Loersatz

Great links, I haven't seen all these, but the Tobi Neumann video is how I learned to patch a kick. :)

Hi :)
I am contemplating using a basic VCO to design my own kicks.
I am making mainly techno/dub techno/electro.
I am using a Michigan Synth SY0.5 and/or a MI Plaits to design my kicks and other hats/claps/percs.
Yet I am looking into more options for designing my kicks mainly. I am happy with Plaits and SY0.5 (or sometimes samples) for various other perc elements (hats/claps/perc).
I understand that using a basic VCO with various waveforms would also require a mixer (to eventually mix the various waveshapes), some EG (preferably ASR or ADSR) and some VCAs.
- I have a PipSlope Mk2, a Doepfer A-140 (ADSR with a Retrig input which can be interesting for adding some variation as well as an inverted out) and a XAOC Zadar for EGs.
- I also have a basic VCA (Doepfer A130-2)
I would need:
1) A basic mixer: would a Doepfer A-138n (basic 4 inputs) be good enough or a mixer/polarizer (more sound design options) like a Doepfer A-138j would be better?
2) A basic VCO: what should I look into? Bear in mind that this VCO would be used mainly for this purpose. Now I could also use it for other purposes :)
NOTE:
1) I am limited by space (as ever...).
2) I do processing outside my eurorack, therefore compression and saturation are not considered.
Any advice would be gladly appreciated.
Best,
L

Hi :)
I am using various solutions to design my kicks:
1) Michigan Synth SY0.5
2) MI Plaits
3) Sometimes using samples but I am not convinced anymore :)
Nevertheless, I am still pursuing the best solution to design my kicks as ready made ones (macro oscillators or other dedicated kick modules) do not offer as much sound design possibilities.
I have been gathering info from YT and I come to the conclusion that I am more enclined to use a basic VCO with various waveforms, an EG (ADSR or ASR) and a VCA to yeld the results I am aiming at.
Here are a couple of resourceful videos in case it can help:
- The Modular Spaghetti Solutions - Making a Eurorack modular Techno kick drum with an envelope generator. No VCA needed
- Sinus - Tech Talk 004 Make Your Own Kickdrum In Eurorack Pure Analog Deep Full Live Patching
- Thomann - How to create the perfect kick drum | Lets Patch | Thomann
- DJ TechTools - How To Make An Analog Kick with Tobi Neumann
- Voltage Control Lab - Eurorack Modular Kick Drum Tutorial
- Stazma - Analog Kick Drum tutorial: Stazma Modular Tips & Tricks

I am also considering the WMD MSCL. What would the pros/cons be of module vs external?

oh my! That would be verry bold!

The side chain idea...is that a type of "ducking"?
-- Jukeshoe

It's frequently used like that, yes. Suppose you have a bass line and a kick drum. If you sidechain compress the bass against the kick, the bass will typically duck when the kick hits.

EDITED Dec 13th 2023, 19:30

I just got the ES-9 Eurorack Audio + CV Interface - can I just use it to mix inline and use the audio ins and out without going to the iPad - as in like in inline Mixer module - or is the entire purpose to use the ES-9 to get audio out as an audio interface?

-- Gonkeroo

There is a mixer built into the ES-9 that would allow you to do that. But it's really hard to understand how to configure it. And the most obvious way to control it is via a web interface on a computer, which is cumbersome. Also, it's not a live mixer where you can move a slider and it takes effect immediately: you change the settings, then you upload it to the ES-9 to take effect. So while possible in theory, I would strongly advise against it!

EDITED Dec 13th 2023, 19:29

Maybe a red one too ;-)

the only thing missing is silver modules :D

Muddiness usually occurs in a mix when there are multiple lower frequencies, these tend to clash more than higher frequencies.
Do you have drums and/or multiple voices in you system that you use as bass sounds?
There are a couple of things you can try here:
- Narrow down the deep bass voices to one at a time, or mix them in one by one to see when it starts to sound muddy
- If you use multiple voices/drums in the lower frequencies, use highpass filters to filter out the lowest colliding frequencies
- Create a sidechain with you kick and bass: mult the trigger signal that triggers the kick to a AD/AR envelope, invert this envelope and set the offset to +5V, so that when the envelope is triggered the signal is moved from +5V to 0V and back. Patch the bass voice into a VCA with the CV controlled by the inverted/offset envelope, and patch this to the mix output. Now the bass gets "silenced" when the kick hits, creating a more clean mix
- Use two separate mixer modules (doesn't have to be a mixer as a lot of modules can mix signals among doing other things, MN Maths for example) and mix on your PC, as you usually have more options in a DAW for equalizing and to see at what frequency the issue occurs. Something like Expert Sleepers ES8 can work as well, you can send your separate sounds to the ES8 and mix them in a DAW.

Like mentioned in the posts above, it can also be that there's an issue with the loudness of the output from your eurorack, as these are generally way louder than normal synth/instrument volume levels. Try to decrease the volume output of your eurorack to see it if sounds less muddy.

Good luck!
-- deurstopjoris

Tons of good info here, thanks!

The side chain idea...is that a type of "ducking"?

wmd mscl?

I need help with compressor options. I'm mainly looking for sidechain compression for drums. I can't decide whether to go with something like God's Box Lollipop and keep it modular, or use my ADDAC200PI to go through an external pedal like the FMR RNC or Rainger FX Deep Space Pulsar. Any opinions or other options?

Hello everybody,

Almost one year later I must say that I fell completly in love with modular! Love the experimentation and the great sounds I can produce with it. I now have two cases one studio case and one batery powered field case (that I love to take with me into nature). Still making dark ambiant soundscapes with drones, feedback patching, fieldrecordings (that I loop, sample and proces within the modular). Lately I am in to experimenting with building chaotic generative patches. I would realy apreciate comments, sugestion's and tips for my current setup, patching and future purchases.

Thanx in advance and keep patching!

Here is my current setup:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2423083.jpg

Bought a Mutable Clouds here because I never owned one. What an amazing module.

EDITED Dec 12th 2023, 20:23

Great tips from Joris above. I'm using an ES-9 myself (kinda like a big ES-8) to send all my channels separately to my iPad. I guess you can do the same on a PC/mac. Put each in a channel strip, then add any EQ or sidechain compression you like. I worked with a basic Ladik mixer and Befaco out before, but when I finally switched to AUM (audio mixer on iPad), it was a revelation. The ES-9 also has outs, so I send the mix back from iPad to the ES-9 where I can send it out to speakers or headphone. Having every channel in a channel strip setup also allows me to add a few effects when I run out of effect modules
-- Arrandan

I just got the ES-9 Eurorack Audio + CV Interface - can I just use it to mix inline and use the audio ins and out without going to the iPad - as in like in inline Mixer module - or is the entire purpose to use the ES-9 to get audio out as an audio interface?

Just wanted to let you know that it was a real pleasure to make a swap with @rlanguillat.
Contact was swift, communicatoion really good and I would recommend this guy to anyone.

I keep four different things in mind when I chose what modules to buy, in no particular order:
1: Budget. I maintain a list of modules I want and I kept an eye out for sales, marketplace , Reverb, Ebay, etc. When I come across a good deal on a module I know I will use I try and jump on the good price if I can.

2: Rarity. Some modules are hard to get because they aren't made anymore. If you want one of of those you're at the mercy of the market. When one pops up for sale that might be a rare opportunity to get it when perhaps later on you might not be able to find one for sale at any price. On the other hand, many rare modules are overpriced, sometimes very much so. So this is a balancing act. Overspending on rare modules is a poor idea, especially if you are new. But if you find a rare module that you know you will use and it's a great price? That is something to jump on even if you can't use it right away.

3: Usefulness. This was especially important when I was starting out. Some modules, say a sequencer or logic, are useless by themselves, but others have at least limited functions by themselves--you can play a little bit with an oscillator or a resonant filter, for example. Some modules like complex oscillators with built-in modulation and "voices" can do a lot on their own, if your planned rack includes any of those you might want to prioritize them when you start. This changes as your rack grows though. A sequencer with no oscillators is useless, but once you have one or more oscillators now a sequencer becomes useful. I think uselfuless also applies to any weak points in your system. When you're just starting out everything is a weak point. But before too long you will idenitify specific needs. Right now my biggest need is envelopes, so that's what I'm planning to buy next. I often ask myself the question: "I've got $X to spend. What module(s) can I get for that which will add the most functionality to my rack?".

4: Balance of utility & fun/inspiration. Some modules are fun and exciting to play with: a fancy new filter, a complicated oscillator, granular processor, DSP, etc. Others are boring but are 100% necessary utilities, like I/Os, mults, VCAs, attenuverters, logic, offsets, S&H, clock tools, etc. I feel it's important to strike a balance between them. Utilities are super important but a rack full of nothing but them is boring and uninspiring. And likewise you might have a bunch of really cool oscillators and FX but without the nuts and bolts that hold everything together you can't do very much with it. So I try and maintain a balance of purchasing interesting and inspiring modules while also keeping up with the utility stuff at the same time.

I'd also suggest this starting out: make sure that at least some of your patch cables are stackable or pick up some splitters. This avoids the need for passive mults in your rack, saving you both space and money.

test

OK

Plaits is a different story... Mutable Instruments stopped, right? Who will repair if I buy second hand?

there are plenty iof people who can repair mutable modules - all but beads are completely open source, both hardware and software... a lot of the other clone manufacturers - After Later Audio etc I suspect will repair their modules if they need it - b-company on the otherhand will probably just bin it and give you a new one - not very environmentally friendly!

it might be an idea to share the url of your public rack - so we can see what you intend to buy... and what your budget is - both initial and ongoing - plus the case you intend to use...

After a lot of thought I think I've finally planned out all the modules I'll want for my first rack, but I won't be able to purchase them all at once. Does anyone have advice in regards to purchase order? It seems like it might be insignificant but I want to ask just in case.

Thank you for your feedback Jim. I appreciate you took the time to review and reply. I was replying to you last weeek but I think everything got lost because of an automatic logout from modular grid. I try again...
I agree with your b company. do not worry I already support small manufacturers a lot. Maths and Quad VCA... true. Plaits is a different story... Mutable Instruments stopped, right? Who will repair if I buy second hand?
All ins is because of the external synths that only have audio level. But when on the road I can indeed remove because I can connect Blackbox directly to Es-9 and move the befaco ins to a second rack for use in studio only.
ES-9 is my mixer for the outputs. But I will add a little mixer to generate complex signals.
Magneto indeed large, but I likecit a lot and keep it for now.
The 3.5 to 6.3 convertor attenuates to protect an external device. Indeed takes a lot of space. I need to find a cable with built in attenuator.
I keep Scales to generate scaled melodies from non scaled cv signals and from still to be developed own external devices.

one of the best for sure

@ElfretPriceless is a trusted seller, good communication and safe shipping... Recommended !

Hi!

This is a short video about the amazing Sealegs module by intellijel. People are wandering why its called Sealegs….. More videos on Sealegs will be online soon on my YouTube channel, enjoy!

I have sold this oscillator because I often found my self patching it together with Make Noise STO to get a more complex sound. So I sold it and STO as well to buy Cs-L. I have to say that I really miss AJH VCO. It is really fat and tight sounding. I'm unable to replicate that sound with Cs-L. I will definitely buy these VCO's in future.

I've got a question about the usefulness of external MIDI controllers or even more capable devices like the Ableton Push with Eurorack.

Right now my setup is 100% modular only. I don't have a keyboard of any sort, and I don't have a DAW or a computer rigged up to my system either. I specifically don't want a PC involved, I use those enough througout the day and one of the things that I like about modular is that it's an escape from a computer. However, one of my main interests in synths is the fat polyphonic sound from a lot of the classic 80's synths like the CS-80. Even though I plan on building a large rack I forsee that at some point I'm going to want to dive into a non-modular synth like a Deckard's Dream, Ise-Nin, etc. The problem is those require MIDI to control. I do not want to use a traditional piano keyboard and I do not want to use a PC, laptop, etc. I have found modules to generate MIDI from CV but that seemed both complex and limited at the same time--more like it was useful for interacting with a synth setup, but rather limiting as the only interface.
The other day I stumbled across the Ableton Push III via a Youtube video. I have zero experience with these sorts of machines but it seems like something like this might be very useful to me. It is a MIDI controller that could play MIDI capable synths like the Deckard's Dream--via its buttons and also as a sequencer. It also functions as a synth on its own, which is attractive since I can use it to augment my modular setup--for example right now my modular system is very weak in the drum department, something like this could handle a lot of my drums before I get a chance to buy all that in modular. And finally, I understand the version III has 4 CV outputs, so it can be used as a modulation source too. Using something like this as the main controller for the external non-modular synth(s), perhaps augmented with MIDI generating modules as I can afford them, seems like a good way to go.

I'd appreciate any thoughts, also any suggestions for other hardware to take a look at.

Another one from Djupviks Electronik, a broken delay and no-input mixer.
Very simple build, mostly surface mount already installed so you just need to put on jacks and stuff.
Sounds interesting, though I will admit I did not do the demo full justice, go to their site for a better demo
Would be a fine first kit.

Build

Hello everybody,

Almost one year later I must say that I fell completly in love with modular! Love the experimentation and the great sounds I can produce with it. I now have two cases one studio case and one batery powered field case (that I love to take with me into nature). Still making dark ambiant soundscapes with drones, feedback patching, fieldrecordings (that I loop, sample and proces within the modular). Lately I am in to experimenting with building chaotic self generative patches. I would realy apreciate comments, sugestion's and tips for my current setup, patching and future purchases.

Thanx in advance and keep patching!

Here is my current setup:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_2423083.jpg

EDITED Dec 11th 2023, 19:15

usually people mock up their racks and paste the url when posting questions - it really helps and then list the extra stuff they have... this might be an idea for you?

I wouldn't want the microcosm as end of chain processing - I think things like that tend to work better when processing singke voices as opposed to many - although reverb is always good on full mixes...

sounds like you want a mixer... possibly an external one - I used a yamaha mg10 for quite a while - reasonably inexpensive

hmmmm.... I think you'd be much better off with a bigger case and something like a keystep pro... because you wiull need the expansion space almost immediately with this setup... I'd really suggest a great deal more research before parting with cash....

there are fundamental things missing...

your description of the intellijel adsr's compactness made me chuckle... as did the "you can never have too many lfos" when there's only 1 in there - the "you can never have too many.." meme is usually used for vcas...

speaking of which, there are no vcas to plug the envelope generator into... ok there's one on the tonestar, but that already has an adsr built in...

buchla is often linked with lpgs (not filters) which are also none existant... these are a cross between vcas and low pass filters...

whilst the tonestar is a voice - the tiptop/buchla module is a dual vco - you will see on the tonestar that the vco is a small part of the voice... they have no

reverb and delay are both incredibly useful...

take a look at my signature and think long & hard about how you might apply this to a rack that you might want...

seriously consider a minimum viable synth (at least to start):

a sound source (possibly rthe tiptop buchla one), a sound modifier (possibly 1 of the filters), a modulation source (you'll want more than 1 channel - a quad is a good idea, batumi - or possibly maths - particularly if you are into west coast serge/buchlaesque concepts), a way to listen (a quad cascading vca will work wonders as a basic mono output - a veils clone) and a way to play (maybe a keystep pro - or a pams - which could also double as a modulation source and a random pitch source) and a basic utility module for attenuation/inversion/offset (happy nerding 3 * mia)

another good idea is to work out what modules you want (based around how many voices you want) what modules each voice will need, what supporting modules they will need when combined and then work out how much rack space you need - leaving a good 25% of any rack you buy free for expansion - you will need it... instead of deciding on a case because it appears to be convenient...

if you want to fit the 4 voices that the nifty keys is designed for you, into it, you need to go much more compact with every module...

I am totally in love with Mnemonic's Juniper+Gin. It is probably the most powerful modulation (x8) combo..