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I will look into the Disting and Pam's, then. The matrix mixer seems interesting too!
When I bought my case I didn't know about line level vs. modular level. So I plugged the output of the Cloaks directly into the Moog mixer, and the output of this mixer into the Aux In of my speakers. As you can plug headphones directly into the back of the Moog semimodulars, I guess they output line level audio, and that it's the level that is expected by the mixer. Anyway, the modular level delivered by the Cloaks never caused any audible problem down the line. I hope it didn't cause any hardware damage either, but as the opinions I read about the necessity of an output module were mixed, I didn't give it too much thought. Until your post, that is... So here I am, not knowing if an output module is necessary as long as I keep sending my modular signal to the Moog mixer, or if I can save a few precious HP for something else :)
Been super busy lateley and very little synth love but... I squeeked in a short jam. I have been working to learn my Keystep Pro now that its back from getting repaired. Also playing around with a little video synthisis. I don't have time to get into hardware on it right yet so I played with a software synth for this.
I am learning that its not always easy to make something sound good on several different audio setups :-). I have a sub and decent monitors set up when I am jaming but then I get it onto my laptop or phone and not so amazing :-( But hey... This is a journey for me and not a destination...
The level of Cloaks/Veils outputs corresponds to the level used in the modular world. This is a much higher level than that used by the almost majority of external/usual audio equipment (level called 'line') and this is why we use an output module that will adjust to the line level required (by most mixers or recorders, for example).
Please note, the StMix is a small (but excellent) mixing module. It allows you to mix signals inside your modular and it is not designed to be an output module.
PS: As @Vegamorph suggests, Disting mk4 and Pam's are worth considering, and no difficulty using them. No need for degrees from Harvard University, University of Oxford plus École Polytechnique.
I'm no expert but the limited experience I have in transferring from synths and semi modular to modular, if that I needed lots of modulation for those lovely sounds. It was both vca and envelopes that I quickly used up so my recent purchases have looked for things that double up as secondaries for those tasks. I agree the disting needs a manual on hand which sucks but Pams is very fluid with barely more than one nested menu in most use cases, and the oled really helps. but for bang for buck, it's great.
These few comments. Yes, save a place for an output module: Pico is a good compact module but others like Befaco also offer very good solutions. I agree with you regarding the presence of two filters, for a number of reasons including the positioning of voices in the sound spectrum. The 4ms Ensemble Oscillator is one of the best sound sources currently, not to be put in the same category as the Liquid Glitcher which is just a nice gadget.
-- Sweelinck
Currently I output the Out4 of my Cloaks/Veils directly into the small Moog mixer I got with my DFAM / Mother 32. Thus I don't know if I really need an output module. I checked what Befaco had to offer though, and found that the STMIX could be useful. I also removed the second Cloaks to replace it with a more compact Happy Nerding 3x VCA. Do you think my utilities / VCAs needs would be covered with all this?
I also added a 2HP contact mic / preamp because I would like to experiment sticking a piezo on litteraly anything and feeding it to Rings/Resonate, Mimeophon, Loop...
I would suggest a disking mk4 if space is limited. i mean its 86 modules in one. And a Pam's if you want to clock all those oscillators easily.
-- Vegamorph
The menu diving scares me a bit, I must confess. It may be stupid as complex modules with many knobs can be even more complicated to master I guess... Disting is really tempting, I may give it a go and resell it if it doesn't fit. Pam is even scarier to me, and I already use the T2 output of Marbles/Dice, or the clock out from my Moogs to trigger my modules. Do you feel it may not be enough?
These few comments. Yes, save a place for an output module: Pico is a good compact module but others like Befaco also offer very good solutions. I agree with you regarding the presence of two filters, for a number of reasons including the positioning of voices in the sound spectrum. The 4ms Ensemble Oscillator is one of the best sound sources currently, not to be put in the same category as the Liquid Glitcher which is just a nice gadget.
I'm currently building my first rack, I use it to make some kind of ambient music, but with a noisy twist.
I also have Moog DFAM, Subharmonicon and Mother 32. So I would like to be able to output the signals of these into my case, but also to play my rack as a stand-alone.
Here is what I have for the moment. I find it nice to begin with, but I would like to add more voices. I also miss some attenuation if I want to ouput the signal from the case to the Moog. And I guess some filter would be a nice addition.
And this is what I'm considering buying next, but I'm having trouble making up my mind:
Erica Synths Pico Out: don't know if it's necessary as I rarely play with headphones, but would be a plus if I take the case on holidays.
Happy Nerding 3x MIA, or Frap Tools 321? People seem to like both for different reasons, but can't decide which would be best suited for me.
2hp Loop: may be a bit redundant with Mimeophon on "hold", but allows looping up to 5 minutes of sound, so would be great for noisy backgrounds? Any other idea for sound mangling compact module? Maybe an FX Aid?
Frap Tools 333: large number of mult/mix possibilities. Seems the best option to me.
DivKid Ochd Expander: for a larger choice of modulation. Any opinions on this?
Another Cloaks: I guess another voice + stereo output would force me to take this amount of additional VCAs.
Qpas: I think it's a pretty Moog-esque filter, but the sound shaping possibilities + stereo output attract me to it. Any thoughts?
So yeah, a whole bunch of questions, please feel free to give your opinion or tell me if I've forgotten something important.
I'm also open to other modules (though not too keen on screens and menu diving).
Thanks :)
Thanks again for the heads up :) Muchh appreciated.
That is exactly what I am doing :)
Though it takes (not always) Batumi some time to sync properly and correct te offset.
Do we embrace this sonic masterpiece hiding in a dumpster fire, or do we maintain some standards? Because, let's be honest, we're all a little shallow when it comes to our gear...
Hey :)
Thanks for offering to help.
I am troubleshooting the issue since yesterday.
As described in an earlier post:
I have 2 patterns for my kick module.
One is coming from a sequencer and the other is coming from Batumi in divide mode (input 2), clocked on every beat (4/4) from my case. The same clock is also sent to sync/reset input 2.
When I switch from the sequencer pattern to the Batumi pattern (2nd output in square mode), sometimes Batumi is not giving me the expected result, ie the sequence falls on 2 and 4 instead of 1 and 3.
Sometimes the solution is to cycle through the 4 Batumi modes until getting back to divide mode.
Also, based on your post, I tried to switch from Sync to Reset (with Poti) and it seems to work but takes various attempts.
Can you describe your issue a bit better? What exactly is the issue? I still think that it has to do with batumi not knowing which of your triggers/clocks is the first one to start the bar. You need to find a way to give the LFO the chance to get that first beat. Then it can sync to that speed.
-- SLFE
I may be mistaken, but I think you're talking about the general 4 rows limit imposed on non-Unicorn users, not related to being Buchla: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/users/pro_index
The current limit of the number of rows in a Buchla case is 4.
A lot of of the bigger portable cases on offer, as well as some recently unveiled soon to be available studio cabinets are five rows high. Please help me feed my GAS.
Can you describe your issue a bit better? What exactly is the issue? I still think that it has to do with batumi not knowing which of your triggers/clocks is the first one to start the bar. You need to find a way to give the LFO the chance to get that first beat. Then it can sync to that speed.
Easy! You check this site and decide if it is for you or not / download the firmware. Then you unplug your Batumi from Europower and plug it via USB to your PC. Start the "XAOC Firmware Update Tool Win". It should automatically find your connected Batumi (Power from USB, not the Eurorack Power) here you can select which FW you want. This one is called "batumi-iw-v1.0.bin". Select it and upload it to your module.
It just adds extra shapes to your assign out jack. Just press the select button on the batumi for 2 seconds. If you press it shorter you have a "Zoom mode" with attenuation, phase etc. But after a 2 seconds press (all LED flashing briefly) you can select four different types of random slew/stepped for each of the four LFOs with the sliders. Short press on the select button again and you are back to normal with the selected mode on your assign out. Pressing select for 4 seconds sets all LFOs back to standard operation (all LED flashing wild). It's really easy but adds so much.
Took me one or two sessions to familiarize it but I will definitely keep this FW.
I have no idea how to change FW on Batumi.
Do you mind going through some explanations or is it too much to ask?
I have not found so many resources apart from a few tutorials on YT.
The Reset/Sync thing is not working as expected though...
I guess if you divide a steady 4/4 beat batumi doesn't know what your first beat of the four is. It should work if you switch Poti to "reset" and flick it to "sync" in the right moment. No? Could that be the issue?
Oh, also Batumi is not analog, it's a fully digital LFO.
Found some querying inconsistencies in the Module Finder when it comes to modules listed under the "Other/unknown" manufacturer:
...
-- drohn
"other/unknown" is excluded on purpose which makes sense to me.
There is a hint when you have 0 search results as well:
-- modular01
Ah indeed, honestly hadn't even noticed that yet. To me, it doesn't make sense if you enter the actual name of the module in your search criteria, but anyway: problem solved. Thanks!
Hi,
Not sure if this is an issue or user error/misunderstanding.
I also understand that Batumi is analog... Maybe this explains it all :)
Here is the "problem":
I have 2 patterns for my kick module.
One is coming from a sequencer and the other is coming from Batumi in divide mode, clocked from my case.
Clock is sent to sync/reset input 4.
When I switch from the sequencer pattern to the Batumi pattern (divide by 8 on the 4th output in square mode), sometimes Batumi is not giving me the expected result, ie the sequence falls on 2 and 4 instead of 1 and 3.
Sometimes the solution is to cycle through the 4 Batumi modes until getting back to divide mode.
This does not work all the time though.
Any idea what is going on?
Should I use the reset option instead of the sync option?
The reset sync is on the sync position (through poti) and the clock is plugged in the reset/sync input.
Found some querying inconsistencies in the Module Finder when it comes to modules listed under the "Other/unknown" manufacturer:
go to Modules
as an example, type "corruptelam" in the Search box, don't modify any of the other search criteria
note how the module is not found
then select the "Other/unknown" manufacturer, now the module is found
feel free to try out with other module names (e.g., "fluxus duo"), you'll observe the same behavior
It seems the modules listed under "Other/unknown" are only found when you also select this manufacturer whereas expected behavior (by me) would be that these also appear if you just search on their name only and leave the manufacturer blank (-). Which is how it works for all modules that are attached to their actual manufacturer (e.g., I can search for "koszalin" and get the correct result even without selecting "Xaoc Devices" as the manufacturer).
StudioOne84 contacted me twice for a module, i even was ok with his "40€ less" offer (250 instead of 289)
but both times his communication was really bad, sporadic answers, wrong email for photos (i did send them again to the right one) and both times he stopped it at the point when he would have to pay.
Completely unreliable and just a waste of time.
In case he claims somthing different here i can post the complete mails.
I was looking at that Cosmix also but as it's now older model it's not so easy to find...
I got this instead which is similar (I also like having mutes on hand) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/g-storm-electro-influx
-- Traxam
That would work, but also not available for me at the moment, unfortunately.
I was looking at that Cosmix also but as it's now older model it's not so easy to find...
I got this instead which is similar (I also like having mutes on hand) https://www.modulargrid.net/e/g-storm-electro-influx
Many thanks too you guyz you all clearly know your stuff you have been very helpful indeed I'm going to study your advice and make the changes you all recommend
You could just get a 1010 Bluebox (standalone version) and use the space on more goodies.
-- Zacksname
This definitely looks like it has everything I need and more. Although, I'm not sure if I can handle all the menus and pages between that and the Perfomer. I'm building this rack mostly to get away from the PC and to gain hands-on control, so excuse me if I'm a little apprehensive with this one. But, thanks anyways! This will definitely be the choise if I want to expand for recording.
Hey, as I overflew answers, I'd say: I cannot add anything new. But I can push what was said before:
Looking at your rack before even looking at the answers shows, that you may have started out with the want of "experimental drones" and have a sweetspot for those gnarly "integrated" droners (I do and there is no shame in that :P).
Considering "techno" can be very different from taste to taste (I think we just leave the genre-discussion aside as far as possible to stay out of hypergeeking here :-D ), I'd say, if you want to combine that seemingly big interest in droning with structured machinized beats, you can ditch some modules in favour of VCAs - and mind you that Mixers and VCAs in the most classical sense differ from being controllable via external voltages (envelopes regularly). - With some more VCAs at hand, you can easily create a ducking-effect with an inverted envelope, which is good for the kick to persist in a droney techno-patch. If I had that system in front of me, I'd get rid of some soundsources, just in my personal taste, the relation between them and what else you have, feels a bit unbalanced.
For sequencing, I see Pam's and the Moskwa, which feels like a pretty good point to start, especially with technoid repetition. I personally prefer having some Logic-modules to create a few more intricate rhythms more easily, but: Pam's New Workout has Logic in it, so you don't necessary need a logicmodule to have that kind of fun.
Also: ADSRs are nice in conventional synthesizers with keyboard-input, but with more percussive stuff, snappier modules like your Pipslope will do great. Maybe add a cyclical modulationsource (an LFO or you look into your oscillators, some can go into sub-audiorates well enough).
Sad to hear that you think about getting rid of the Grendel, I think that is quite a capable voice for all things "not that melodic" and a strong ground for building dense audio.
Adding to that: I once started out with collecting modules and trying to get as much as possible - which was interesting and tought me valuable techniques, at first. I have later on sold so many modules with a relation of around "4 sold, one new bought". Gave me the opportunity to slowly get to more functional modules, to pick certain ones that are so good as tools that I have 2, 3 or even more of the same one. Take for example a filter: there's some nice ones at good value which then have less cv-patchpoints and therefore are not as versatile, allthough greatsounding.
And here, for a bit of inspiration, a few top picks, I would slap into that case without hesitation:
- Intellijel Quad VCA -> 4 VCAs, normalization to use as a monomixer, switchable response, boost-switch, attenuator in front of the CV-input per VCA (some might now go for other VCAs because of their soundquality, but I think, they sound great and give your system a very good jump upwards in possibilities)
- Make Noise Maths -> yeah I know, boring recommendation but considering price and usage, in case of what you already have, this would also really improve your possibilities big time/ otherwise: stock up on your Pipslopes for example to have a reliable point to come back to
- a Frap Tools 321 -> for all those operations on voltages that are not exciting but help you getting most of your control-voltages (and can also be used as a simple mixer...for good measure)
And now, after all that rambling about, I realize, I could just copy your rack and configure it...wait...
Thanks for the in depth response dude I'll will read into it more and think about rearranging some modules for more envelops.. Do you recommend more vca? Or is the divkid/dopfeer and mixsix enough.. I think I will sell the grenadel drone commander
-- dougie834
No problem. Yes, I would recommend more VCAs. A module like the Intellijel Quad VCA is a great start - 4 different ones with lots of options to try your VCA in many different applications. It's good for CV or audio. Plus it's normalized so you can mix outputs together (though it is notably different from the 6x Mix, which I recommend keeping).
Maybe take a look at other ones as well and see what works best for you and whether or not you might also want a separate attenuation/offset/polarization module like a Happy Nerding 3x MIA or a Tiptop Audio MISO. It's good to just look up the popular modules in these categories and read the manuals, look at the descriptions, and also check out the panels to see what they do or don't have - this will tell you more about how to use them and what's available than just the category they're sold under. Even the ones you don't buy will help you understand the concepts clearer.
However, for now the Quad VCA is a good one for now that is considered reliable and can adapt to your needs as you progress. That's my personal suggestion. Currently, I have a Frap Tools 321, but that's not voltage controlled and I might have the Intellijel module or a MISO myself if I could spare the extra 4 HP.
Thanks for the in depth response dude I'll will read into it more and think about rearranging some modules for more envelops.. Do you recommend more vca? Or is the divkid/dopfeer and mixsix enough.. I think I will sell the grenadel drone commander
This rack grew continuously over the past couple of weeks by basically buying the best used deals I could while keeping it somewhat coherent. So I want the remaining few modules to really glue everything together. The rack started as a ways to extend my Mother 32 and DFAM, which I'll probably always have besides it. The goal is a versatile groovebox that can do techno and house, but also ambient music mostly in jams. I'm actually a little concerned that this rack is not immediate and playable enough, but so far I've had a lot of fun with this, even without the Performer arriving yet.
I'm only missing the Milky Way, Pico DSP, Cosmix, Plaits and Ooots to complete this rack, so those are still up for discussion, I guess.
I'm pretty sure I want Plaits and the Milky Way. Great sound and versatility.
I put Ooots in there because I want that headphone out and (albeit very limited) EQ.
With multiple stereo outputs, I thought I might as well get a stereo mixer with Cosmix. I also like having mutes on hand.
The Pico DSP is just in there because I was looking for a 3HP module to fill the gap, but I might just swap it for a modulation, utility or drum module.
Now, I'm having trouble obtaining a reasonably priced Cosmix and I'm unsure about the Ooots and Pico DSP. Any ideas on a mixer that would fit this? Am I missing something else here? Feedback would be greatly appreciated :)
I have one and find it limiting as it really needs a good sequencer. Love Furthrrrr Generator but plan to sell it as I am not really using it that much. The weird icons and way of working with it is a bit of a pain. Sounds great but I prefer different modules in my other case.
thanks for the in depth resonce I really appretiate it..I do most of what you have suggested vco/ filter/mixer but looking at your post I think I have problems useing envolopes ! im unsure where to use them and when ? can you advise me cheers
-- dougie834
As stated above by Jim, envelopes commonly open VCAs (as well as filters) to articulate sounds - this is what makes a sound start and stop on its own. When you use the Moskwa on an oscillator, the "gate out" goes to the "gate" input on the envelope, and the envelope goes to the filter/vca. With the filter cutoff or VCA gain turned all the way down, this should make the envelope control when, how, and for how long the sound coming through plays.
I assume you bought three drone devices because you love drones, but for now I feel like selling one or two of them to finance some basic useful stuff might help (even if you have the money to throw at this, I would at least recommend focusing on fewer sound sources for now). As stated above by Jim, VCAs and attenuators/attenuverters are big here. They basically let you control amounts of stuff (modulation or audio) and make your system more fun by giving you more knobs and more control. Make sure to look up the difference between VCAs, attenuators, attenuverters, and all that so you're not amplifying stuff too loud or not enough. I use a Frap Tools 321 and I like it a lot, but there are a ton of these (including a great cost-effective one from the company who makes your mixer and FX, Happy Nerding.
You might also consider a big function generator like Maths or the Tiptop Buchla 281t. These modules provide a bunch of simple envelopes that can loop as LFOs, be used as triggers and other sort of interlinking functions (hence the name) and can help animate your system more and give you options that work together. Pamela's New Workout is a great source of modulation/clock/sequencing for a techno setup, but having something more hands-on and less buried in menus will complement that nicely and allow you to get more freeform in switching between types and shapes of modulation.
One other utility I might suggest for you is some kind of quantizer. This will allow you to use essentially anything to sequence notes in your system, from LFOs to envelopes to whatever. Especially when it comes to improvising techno, this can help you a lot in terms of variations.
One last tip: sample and hold modules are not only a classic source of modulation that I recommend researching, but if you get one with CV and trigger inputs, you can run your mix or a single sound through it and send something at audio rate to the trigger to create an analog version of a "bitcrush/downsampling" effect. I love bitcrushers, but unless the Doepfer one has a specific sound you love, you could get a decenr sample and hold somewhere and basically have two modules in one. Modular is full of instances like this where something boring and technical is actually a simpler and more efficient way of doing something than a module built for one purpose.
