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Just a reminder about the MicroFreak: It has a CV and Gate output as well as clock in and output. So you can clock it from your modular rig but you can't sequence it. I eventually got rid of mine because of this so just wanted to highlight it.

As general feedback I would say that your rack looks like the rack of someone that has done research about modular but has no experience actually using one. I know that might sound a bit harsh but I also think it's perfectly natural. The thing about modular is that (especially among beginners), there's always this drive to try to maximize "functions per HP" and try to squeeze as many functions as possible out of your modular. In theory, this makes sense since modules are expensive but in practice, it leads to frustration and an unusable system. Planning a rack is a useful exercise to do, myself I have a couple of racks here on MG where I just play around with different ideas. I'm not gonna tell you to look into module X, Y or Z but rather: Buy the least amount of modules you can start with then figure out what you're missing or what's frustrating you about your current setup, then try to solve that problem. It can definitely be worth having fewer modules if the ones you get fits you better and makes your system more fun/easier to use.

I've never seen anyone that's been able to plan a full system without actually using it and I don't think this system is any exception to that rule. I think your system is very unbalanced and probably not very ergonomic but the best way for you to know how to balance your system is to start small and slow. The only thing that I know for sure is that your modular system will never turn out the way you plan it to.

It seems like you're using up a lot of hp with your compressor and mixer. Although I imagine you'll be using the Roland 531 as your main mixer, it's handy to have several submixers in your system. Perhaps you intend to use the Doepfer A-130-8 as a submixer, but the Frap Tools 321 and Intellijel Triplatt (listed below) offer many useful features in addition to mixing.

For a smaller compressor, you should look into:
Steady State Fate - Autodyne [4hp] https://www.modulargrid.net/e/steady-state-fate-autodyne
Noise Engineering - Librae Legio [6hp] https://www.modulargrid.net/e/noise-engineering-librae-legio
Cosmotronic - Messor [8hp] https://www.modulargrid.net/e/cosmotronic-messor
God's Box - Lollipop mk2 [12hp] https://www.modulargrid.net/e/god-s-box-lollipop-mk2

For submixers I really like:
Frap Tools - 321 [6hp] https://www.modulargrid.net/e/frap-tools-321-
Intellijel - Triplatt [6hp] https://www.modulargrid.net/e/intellijel-triplatt
Joranalogue - Mix 3 [6hp] https://www.modulargrid.net/e/joranalogue-audio-design-mix-3

A possible alternative to the Roland 531:
AI Synthesis - AI007 Quad Mixer [12hp] https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ai-synthesis-ai007-quad-voltage-controlled-mixer-vca
Toppobrillo - Minimix [14hp] https://www.modulargrid.net/e/toppobrillo-minimix-black-panel
Cosmotronic - Cosmix [16hp] https://www.modulargrid.net/e/cosmotronic-cosmix

Good luck and have fun!

"another alternative might be a Happy Nerding FX Aid Pro..."

Another second for the fx aid series. Any of the FX Aid guys are great, as long as you can keep up with what dot means what. Fx aid has some clouds stuff going on already, and is more instantly satisfying. All the x into y algos are sweet, tho you might still need a small clouds buddy to get some granular going. Even so, 2 og fx aids and a uburst would consume the same hp as the typhoon thing, with an insane ammount of possibilities (making a mental note to try this myself). On the other hand it would consume way more currency.

I also agree with Farkas. 104Hp will likely be too small for what you're trying to accomplish (maaantiiiiissss). That being said, "do more with less" is always a game worth playing.

I think 104hp is going to be too small for the amount of variation you are hoping to achieve (twinkly and abrasive).

I agree with this... and point out that black maths and PNW are unobtanium

To maximize space and gain a lot of different functions in 10hp with no menu diving, I HIGHLY recommend one of the Noise Engineering Versio modules. You can flash them with different firmware (super easy process) for the task at hand. I love the Desmodus (reverb/delay), Melotus (granular), and Ruina (distortion) firmwares. Melotus could cover your Clouds needs in a smaller footprint and give you access to even more functions if you choose to pursue them. This is one of the better investments I have made in euro.
-- farkas

another alternative might be a Happy Nerding FX Aid Pro...

although tbh in lots of cases I want more than 1 of these functions at once - delay and reverb and granular for example! so maybe at least a couple of these types of things are a good idea... which leads us back to get a bigger case!!!

don't get a smaller rack - unless you are just going to loose the 1u - ie get a mantis - you could buy 2 mantises for about the same price as a intellijel performer case

but then I don't like 1u - I'd always rather have an extra 3u and haven't yet seen anything in 1u that can't be found in 3u for much less hp - and relegating utilities to 1u imo

mantis is by far the best compromise for hp/cost/decent power supply/manufacturer reputation - unless you absolutely must have 1u for some reason (as I noted above I haven't found one)

the mutable modules are going to be potentially difficult to get hold - as mutable has closed and used modules may attract a premium - there are clones that are available though - there are full size ones now though - from After Later Audio for example.. stages may be particularly difficult though...

saying that I'd consider swapping out the turing machine and expanders and look at something smaller and does something similar (mutable marbles, for example)

you almost definitely don't need both rampage and maths in a case this size - I'd just get maths as it has beeter documentation (the 'maths illustrated supplement') and a lot of youtube video lessons

again you almost defintely don't want so many sound sources in a case this size - 2 or 3 is a better fit - as there is no way you can fit the modules that you need to support them in the leftover space - ie enough sound modifiers, modulation sources and utilities (mixers, vcas etc etc) see my signature for some hints on this!!

I'd also strongly advise not to put 2hp modules next to each other - especially ones that have trimmers on them - they will be almost impossible to adjust especially once they are patched - eurorack modules are really quite small (to the point that a lot of people are surprised how small they are when their 1st ones arrive) - 5hp = 1 inch/2.54cn

in the first tranche:

I wouldn't buy so many multiples - probably just the switched one - and you probably don't need that many in the future either in this size case - I'd just use stackcables or headphone splitters for passives, if you need buffered ones for pitch (or because repatching passives during performance can add clicks, or because you have a module that stops maths working because it's input isnt buffered & maths expects a buffer) then add a buffered one in the future - but not now

I'd also get a different vca - one with a variable response (the doepfer octal is linear only so best for cv or with exponential envelopes if using for audio) and that cascades (ie is also a mixer - if you can find one a mutable veils is a good choice (or a clone) or an intellijel quad vca - this will also, at least in the beginning replace a mixer - so you can leave the mixer out too!! not that you won't want a lot of mixing and vcas in the future, just that they are unnecessary to start with

I'd also consider swapping out the bcompany dual vcf - for a couple of different filters - so you get different flavours - doepfer make a decent selection of inexpensive 8hp filters - I like the moogish ladder filter, the SEM, the WASP and the Low Pass Gate (which is a combination of a low pass filter and a vca)

I'd also be tempted to replace the doepfer dual attenuator with a couple of 2hp trim modules - and scatter them so they are usable (tiny trimmers)

hope this helps

in the filled case :

the quantizer is superfluous - hermod and Pams both have built in quantizers...

I'd probably get mixers with knobs so you can have some control rather than the intellijel ones - maybe one designed for audio - possibly something based on the moog cp3 - as it has some nice grit it can add - and a separate one for modulation - I like a matrix mixer - but to cram one in you'd probably need to loose the tetrapad - which I personally would do (and leave it for the inevitable 2nd case and add tete)

the clock divider is also probably superfluous - pams has a lot of clock division (and multiplication for that matter) functionality - and will probably be enough in this size case

I havent touched my volca modular in two years and even back then did not dig deep. I suggest to look at many videos of the volca modular, there is one input you need a cable with a stereo plug to two monos so you have two inputs, on the volca there are patchpoints from which you can patch each of those two inputs to the destination of your choice. As far as i rememember its definitely possible to clock the sequencer.
Maybe you want to look into "undulations" youtubes channel he has in depth videos about the volca modular that might cover that.
I should dig out mine sometimes.
...edit and yes a gate is not a gate and a trig is not a trig, there are different formats, i don't know what the keystep puts out.

EDITED Dec 12th 2022, 23:17

rings works very well through a filter - or one for each output...

what does the volca manual expect as a clock - usually stated as ppqn (pulses per quarter note)? - can the beatstep be set up to send this?

what voltage is the volca expecting as a clock? the beatstep might not be sending out enough voltage, in which case an amplifier of some sort would be needed...

If you want to be perfect, make sure that your tuning note is an "a". But this is already academic, there is no real reason, as long as it is only your oscillator that must be in tune to your samples.
-- Durst

um, usually the lowest note of a sequencer, that uses actual notes, is a 'c' so tuning to a 'c' makes more sense - or to an interval from a 'c; - so that every note is an interval from 'c' alternately substitute a different root note for the c - and then the sequencer plays intervals to that root note

this also works with most quantizers as they don't care about root note... and if they do they're usually sending notes relative to 'c' (0v is usually c0)

A filter isn't a bad idea... but the voices here (Doepfer, Rings, Plaits) also have filtration built in, plus there's the Optomix. So that might not be as pressing a need as it seems, depending on how you like to patch. (I know in my case I have several filters, but they're actually among my least-used modules, for exactly this reason.)

Zadar and a switch are also great suggestions. If you go the latter route, I'd highly recommend Noise Engineering's Vice Virga, which gives you a ton of options in 8hp.

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 07:24

Cool.

I think 104hp is going to be too small for the amount of variation you are hoping to achieve (twinkly and abrasive). To maximize space and gain a lot of different functions in 10hp with no menu diving, I HIGHLY recommend one of the Noise Engineering Versio modules. You can flash them with different firmware (super easy process) for the task at hand. I love the Desmodus (reverb/delay), Melotus (granular), and Ruina (distortion) firmwares. Melotus could cover your Clouds needs in a smaller footprint and give you access to even more functions if you choose to pursue them. This is one of the better investments I have made in euro.
Have fun and good luck!

A third for the Wasp filter.

I can also recommend the XAOC Odessa for generating incredible drones with its 512 upper partials.

i guess this question was way too dumb to answer :D

I won't worries so much, and if you buy a new module it may be very likely that it'll be shipped already with the new firmware. For example Michigan Synth works are already shipping their Beehive/Plaits with 1.2 installed!

https://michigansynthworks.com/collections/euromodules-test/products/beehive-8hp-plaits

I think what I would do is just remove all cables and make a recording of the oscillator for, say, 10 seconds. Make a sample from it. Then next time, just play this sample and tune the oscillator to this sample before you starting adding voltages. Move the Coarse and Fine knobs until you don't hear beating.

If you want to be perfect, make sure that your tuning note is an "a". But this is already academic, there is no real reason, as long as it is only your oscillator that must be in tune to your samples.

EDITED Dec 12th 2022, 15:38

I highly recommend the Doepfer Wasp filter for what your setup wants to do.
-- benscott

I second the wasp filter, it's quite nice.

Edit: Just make sure your case is deep enough.

EDITED Dec 12th 2022, 03:47

I highly recommend the Doepfer Wasp filter for what your setup wants to do.

Edit: Am new to the modular world.

Have been toying around with a lot of rack ideas and finally came up with a rack that I feel like would suit my needs, my eventual goal is to play live.
The type of music I make ranges from minimal/lofi house, minimal techno and drum and bass.
I externally have a Arturia MicroFreak as another voice, and a Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK as a mixer.
My idea with this rack is to have the pizza and the freak to trade roles for providing bass, and lead sounds. The Rample will be used for most of my drums and some textures and one shots that I will externally make in Ableton, with the prok kick being a sort of backing kick as I transition from one song to the next. I want to be able to modulate a lot, and also in patterns like in drum and bass, like Waeys, Levela, Sustance, Rizzle, Klinical, etc. The dark gritty underground type of drum and bass, so I'd imagine a lot of "rolling" sounds if that makes sense.
I mainly plan on using the tetra pad to make my music sound more human, and to possibly put the snare "density"(?) on one to make off beat snares in drum and bass scenarios.
I want to use Squarps Hermod due to it offering a lot of things that I want in the early stages of my rack, as I wont be able to buy everything in one go.

This is my eventual rack that I am trying to work towards (I hope the thing updated it didn't in preview):

And these are the modules that I want to buy in the first round:

Is this a good first euro rack, will it fit my needs, are there modules that I should swap out for modules that would better suit my need and all the other questions a noob like my self could ask.

Thanks a ton in advance!

EDITED Dec 12th 2022, 00:31

This stuff sounds great and looks amazing. Wonderful visuals.

I made a real simple vid about how I layer melodies. If you have a few minutes to gift your eyeballs/algorithm food, I'd really, really appreciate it:

Hello there,

I just wanted to have opinions or my rack, knowing if i could supress some modules or change things for the best, even get a smaller rack, why not!

Cheers

EDITED Dec 11th 2022, 18:33

Hey again @JimHowell1970! Thanks again for the response, super helpful! I'll consider what you said and keep tetris-ing ;) You've been a big help!
-- slysteezy

No problem - happy to be of help!

Thanks guys, I didn't want to go buying Plaits then doing the firmware and finding I've nothing to Calibrate it with.

Shout out to @ak47exe. Bought his Verbos Multistage and Sequence Selector. All very well packaged, everything as described. Recommended seller.

Hey again @JimHowell1970! Thanks again for the response, super helpful! I'll consider what you said and keep tetris-ing ;) You've been a big help!

there is a sale on Plaits at a local store. I really enjoy what I've heard from Beads and Plaits in particular.

do not think about this just buy them if you wwant them - they will be gone soon enough and there will be no more (originals) and I've already seen big premiums on used modules... some of the clones seem ok - especially the full size ALA ones - the micro ones do not appeal to me at all so haven't really looked

I have use of my partner's East Beast and was wondering if this mash up of the EB and Mutable Instruments could be a workable starting point.

Possibly...

How are you going to play it? melodic & trigger/gate sequencing - via cv/midi? dedicated sequencer/computer? or a keyboard - again midi or cv? if the eastbeast has a sequencer built in you will probably break normalisation by patching it out - you'll want a buffered mult for pitch and maybe a passive for trigger/gate/envelope

How are you going to mix the outputs & listen to it?

How are you going to modulate it? Plaits has an internal (only) lfo - and I suspect the eastbeast has 1 too... which hopefully can be patched out, but does that cut normalisation - in which case you will want a way multiply the signal (again a passive mult) to send to other modulation inputs and replace the internal (normalised) routing in the eastbeast

for passive mults stack cables or headphone splitters will do - but lots of people like modules for these - all are useful and a lot of people (myself included) have all 3

get a much bigger case than you think you will need - as you will need it... a tiptop mantis is a very good starter case - it's the best bang for buck of size/cost/decent power supply/manufacturer reputation

see my signature for hints on how to expand from here sensibly - the equation scales very well from the 1st few modules all the way up to walls of modules

Hi Jim, thanks for the thoughtful response! I'm considering your advice right now! What type of utilities would you recommend in addition to what I have in the case already?

logic, matrix mixer, slew limiters, switches, sub-mixers etc etc - but you do need to work this out yourself, through research and experimentation - doepfer and ladik are definitely manufacturers to look at as both do a wide range of utilities that are inexpensive - remember in most cases utilities (including vcas) are for modulation as well as audio!

btw doesn't the vector have quantization built in?

Update: I'd really rather keep the Data in if possible, but slimmed down the drum and synth voices to add on the XAOC expanders.
-- slysteezy

I'm not suggesting necessarily getting rid of the DATA, just moving it out of the main case - I don't think you'll need it constantly (at least once you start to hear what's happening) - I've never had an oscilloscope in the rack - I could use one in vcv rack if needed though - although tbh I never have

So when you do a firmware update do you have to re-calibrate?
-- wishbonebrewery
Here no issues at all after updating the module. All works fine.

Hi all, I am yet another person who is really new to modular synths. I have been looking into modular for a bit and heard about Mutable Instruments closing down. I know there's others who have made clones, but there is a sale on Plaits at a local store. I really enjoy what I've heard from Beads and Plaits in particular. I have use of my partner's East Beast and was wondering if this mash up of the EB and Mutable Instruments could be a workable starting point. I really just enjoy making sound and would like to build this into something really creative and don't mind not being able to recreate the same thing twice. Eventually, trying to look into creating more spontaneous/random sounds.

Hi Jim, thanks for the thoughtful response! I'm considering your advice right now! What type of utilities would you recommend in addition to what I have in the case already?

Update: I'd really rather keep the Data in if possible, but slimmed down the drum and synth voices to add on the XAOC expanders.

EDITED Dec 10th 2022, 22:32

Thank you very much my friend. A friend of mine is taking care of it!

-- orys

That's good... hope it gets fixed!

to me it looks like too many voices for this size case - not enough utilities to support them - see my signature for some handy hints!!

maybe you've kept your original, smaller case... so you can use it for overspill - I'd definitely consider putting the DATA in it, along with some of the other modules - this would free up space for more utilities (including more vcas) and the expanders for batumi and zadar, which are really useful

Thank you for the nice suggestions. I also think that the last module choice will come automatically if I'm missing features for my needs in the rack

Huge fan of your YouTube series (all of them)!

Thank you for posting this rack!

Anyone got the Rectangular thing guys? I have a DIY unit and can't figure out how modulation works.
None of the MOD knobs do anything and nothing happens with external modulation through the dedicated MOD input.
-- orys

I'd contact Stijn above - you should be bale to private message him - however it seems like you probably have some defects in your build - so posting hi-res photos of the board to somewhere that's more oriented towards DIY might be a good idea - Modwiggler's Music Tech DIY subforum would be my choice!

good luck!
-- JimHowell1970

Thank you very much my friend. A friend of mine is taking care of it!

I'd spend more time looking at mixing - at a quick glance it looks like you don't have enough channels and don't have enough submixing - mix drums before filtering for example

How are you intending to quantize your 2hp TM? - DM me if you want to buy a used 2hp TM and Trim (quantiser) pair...

too much space dedicated to sequencing, sound sources and compressor (there are many much smaller ones that do just as good a job and are possibly available - iirc wladorf discontinued all their modules) - and not enough space for modulation or utilities (see my signature for some hints!)

I'm almost done with a starter rack, but fell in the starter trap of case too smol.

After exploring a bunch of different brands and playing with my current setup, I think I've settled on a case size and system that feels really good to me, but I'd love your thoughts to see if I'm missing anything.

I want the system to so primarily four things (in order of importance):
1. Be a performable, generative electronic kusic system with decent versatility.
2. An effects processor for external audio.
3. A midi instrument to be played with keyboard (I have an arturia keystep).
4. Bleepblooper earcandy maker for my more pop-leaning music.

I feel like I got all my bases covered, but may be short on VCAs. I could get rid of the Happy Nerding Attenuators and replace with more VCAs, but not sure if I'd need the attenuation as utility. Please let me know what you think! Criticism + feedback on every element is welcome. Thanks for taking the time to look over :)

updated rack:

EDITED Dec 10th 2022, 22:30

So when you do a firmware update do you have to re-calibrate?
-- wishbonebrewery

iirc you shouldn't need to - manual states calibration is only for correcting inaccuracies of modulation sources - but at least the calibration procedure is in the manual (if it is needed)

Just did a quick google and couldn't see any mention of re-calibrating

I'm probably going to to this update myself tomorrow or Monday, so I'll let you know if I have any issues!

Anyone got the Rectangular thing guys? I have a DIY unit and can't figure out how modulation works.
None of the MOD knobs do anything and nothing happens with external modulation through the dedicated MOD input.
-- orys

I'd contact Stijn above - you should be bale to private message him - however it seems like you probably have some defects in your build - so posting hi-res photos of the board to somewhere that's more oriented towards DIY might be a good idea - Modwiggler's Music Tech DIY subforum would be my choice!

good luck!

EDITED Dec 10th 2022, 17:24

and the link to the public rack - as jpgs are shite!!!

I agree with @GarfieldModular

blind panel and save the money towards a second case - that way you'll have space for some utilities - which appear to be sadly lacking from your case

An 9 LFO module from Jolin Lab.
Not much to the build, all the surface mount components are pre-installed so there are just 9 jacks and 9 switches to install, so the build was 10 minutes.
The test and demo, though, came out at 20 minutes. Took a bit to change rates, and messing about with chaining was interesting.
For me this is a good studio module, but not live or jamming, since the rate responses are slow to start and not intended to be precise.
But fun.
Build and demo

Dump the mult to add 2 more HP. Then there's 10hp... enough room for Zadar or one of the new Noise Engineering FX modules

:D

Have you looked into filters or VCAs? Unless you plan on running everything through the benjolin all the time, an extra filter with a big ol knoby knob would be great for sweeping the Black Wavetable. A VCA can help get get some really weird sounds going. Modulating your modulators and all that. If you downsized your clouds clone you should be able to squeeze both in comfortably.

For the midi/cv you could save rack space and get a keystep or some type of external midi/cv converter.

Those Caixa cases look great, lots of functionality, which would probably cover your € per Hp between the cases you mentioned. Caixa is €6.37 per hp, the rack brute is €2.15, and the mantis is €1.53. There's always trade offs, In this scenario it's rack space vs physical space vs built in functionality vs cost. Personally, I'd go for a mantis, put in the utility modules I need (and also choose, which is important to me) and then have room to add whatever later on when I start figuring out what's missing

Just some thoughts, have fun!

Hi FWGW,

If I haven't overlooked it and to my surprise, your rack doesn't contain any filter? So I would use the last 8 HP for a multimode filter. 8 HP isn't very much, by heart, Doepfer comes to mind but I am sure there are other interesting multi-mode filters that fit within 8 HP too. Another option might be the TipTop Audio - Forbidden Planet, nice little filter!

Otherwise stick with Farkas' advice to put a 8 HP blind panel first, till you damn sure where the last 8 HP will be spend for ;-)

Yet another option is to stick with the blind panel option but save the money you would have otherwise spend for an 8 HP module and keep saving money till you have enough money for a second case. Once you got that second case you can stop worrying about your last module because you have enough space left! :-)

Good luck with choosing a nice filter (or a fancy blind panel or saving money for another rack) and kind regards, Garfield.

Maybe a sequential switch of some sort? Doepfer makes a decent and inexpensive, but limited, one in 4hp, though there are many different ones that could offer some fun alternatives.

I'm already very happy with my setup. I mainly control my system with Marbles and Bloom and have a lot of fun with it. But I would like to get more into self-generated patching. Maybe a utility module?