Hi,
Currently i am building a "modular" modular case. It consists of several cases that can be stacked to an unlimited height.
the very top (case-) module will have a 1 meter LED bar that emits to the ceiling.
This Led bar has a height of ~ 70mm so i will have space for a 1U row at the front.
I have no idea if i ever will use this 1U row for modules. for now i will create a huge blank panel for this
but i wonder in which distance i should drill the holes for the rails.

Researching the different 1U front panel heights brought me:
Intellijel: 39,65 mm
Pulp Logic: 1,7 inch which should be 43,18 mm

Is one of the formats more future proof than the other?
thanks for any advice or opinion!

EDITED Jun 14th 2023, 08:31

THREE LETTERS ..... SIMPLE REALLY,

D. A. C.

no dac

nothing special.

Can’t see th Mantis cases available anywhere in Australia yet)

they tend to go in and out of stock quite a bit - like everything in eurorack they're made in batches and when they sell out it can be a while before another batch gets built and shipped

I may be a bit confused with the difference between VCAs and attenuverters, if both have CV inputs, aren’t they the same - only attenutervers are bipolar?

VCAs are generally known as voltage controlled amplifiers, although a majority have a maximum amplification of 1 and are more correctly voltage controlled attenuators (which isn't necessarily a bad thing - as often that's all that is needed)

unless a specific attenuverter is described as voltage controlled, it won't be.. it'll be manual - the MIAs and the SAM are both manual

the (now discontinued) mutable blinds is an example of a VC Attenuverter... doepfer also make 1 - they are better used for modulation than for audio as they have a tendency not to close fully

Yes, you’re right the motu does have DC-Coupled outs, perhaps I could get away with ditching the ES-3. However, I’m also thinking about send audio through these outputs, would I need dedicated modules to boost the motu outputs to modular level? If so, it may end up costing the same as the ES-3.

which is why I was suggesting a mutable veils clone... as they have 20dB+ gain on each channel

To be honest, I wasn’t thinking about CV at all but moreso processing audio from Ableton through the case. And processing outboard gear via Motu to the case…
Maybe I should instead add another 2xSAM - these can apparently be configured to be a line-modular boost via jumpers on the back.

if that's the case then not a bad idea

So, this is my updated case, not sure if you can see the modules to the side, but my most recent omissions are the 100 Grit, swapped for the Steady State Gate, removed Worng Acronym (I really wanted this but can’t justify the price for an OSC), and took out the FX Aid, in the hope that Monsoon (Clouds) can cover reverb duties, and any time based FX not covered by Clouds, Prism or Crush Delay I could hopefully get out of Disting EX.

However - I think something/s else needs to go.

I would just buy less to start with - a sound source, a modulation source (I'd go for Maths - but don't expect to find a Black & Gold one - they're only available as part of the shared system - and if they do turn up for sale used they often cost double a normal maths), a sound modifier, you've already got a way to play in the keystep pro etc, a quad cascading vca - which can be used as a mono output for now and a few utilities - a simple dc-coupled mixer, a mult, a 3*MIA or similar and then add modules when you've learnt those modules inside out and as you find you need things...

Wondering people’s opinions of what is more valuable out of Pachinko (Marbles) and Pam’s Pro workout, and also if you think I need the 0chd?

both are useful... I have both a PNW and Marbles - never used PNW for looping random quantised pitch though - as I have Marbles for that...

Seems like I have a lot of LFO modulation?

not really - just count up the number of modulation inputs on the other modules...

Considering that - I have outside gear that can seq trigs/CV, albeit limited with minimal Euclid/random functions - such as: Keystep Pro, MicroFreak, DFAM, Neutron via midi input and a soon to be modded Roland MC202 with new Tubbutec seq, even the Roland TR8S can switch it’s individual outs to trigs.

all more or less useful - depending on your workflow...

Also, what specific utilities you would add to this?

I guess I need a mult, mutes/a-b switch? Anything else? Maybe a S&H?

mult probably - a passive (or stackcables or headphone splitters) to start - a buffered one if you need it - I find Maths benefits from a buffer when connecting it's outs to some modules

mutes - not necessarily, unless you feel you need them...

a-b switch - I've always liked sequential switches myself - doepfer does a decent inexpensive bi-directional one

Also - I’ve got the 3xMIA there to double as extra VCAs/mixer - can these also be used to reduce voltage down to line level? - for example plugging into an external sampler/looper
EDIT - OK, as I was typing that I realised the answer is likely no.

kind of but probably not very precise - 3*MIA isn't a VCA though - no VC!

Thanks very much for all the advice! and sorry for the slow reply.

So, I have gone through many changes of approaches and iterations just in the last week.
I’ve made the case smaller - mainly just help me reduce the amount of modules, I think this size is better - looking at my “local” store, I’m leaning towards the Erica Synths 2x104HP Aluminium Travel Case With Lid
Not that I need it for gigging but seems to be good for price, power and availability (Can’t see th Mantis cases available anywhere in Australia yet)

I got rid of the idea of sample/beat slicing in the case, along with drums - like you said - also most of the osc/filters I have can be pingable for synth perc.

I may be a bit confused with the difference between VCAs and attenuverters, if both have CV inputs, aren’t they the same - only attenutervers are bipolar?
Yes, you’re right the motu does have DC-Coupled outs, perhaps I could get away with ditching the ES-3. However, I’m also thinking about send audio through these outputs, would I need dedicated modules to boost the motu outputs to modular level? If so, it may end up costing the same as the ES-3.

To be honest, I wasn’t thinking about CV at all but moreso processing audio from Ableton through the case. And processing outboard gear via Motu to the case…
Maybe I should instead add another 2xSAM - these can apparently be configured to be a line-modular boost via jumpers on the back.

I looked at clouds and kammerl beat repeat, however it is still not really what I want, but anyway - I decided to do this in Ableton.

So, this is my updated case, not sure if you can see the modules to the side, but my most recent omissions are the 100 Grit, swapped for the Steady State Gate, removed Worng Acronym (I really wanted this but can’t justify the price for an OSC), and took out the FX Aid, in the hope that Monsoon (Clouds) can cover reverb duties, and any time based FX not covered by Clouds, Prism or Crush Delay I could hopefully get out of Disting EX.

However - I think something/s else needs to go.

Wondering people’s opinions of what is more valuable out of Pachinko (Marbles) and Pam’s Pro workout, and also if you think I need the 0chd?
Seems like I have a lot of LFO modulation?
I’m leaning towards keeping Pam - but only because marbles was a late addition. But they’re hard to compare since Pam seems like an arranger and Marbles is more performable.
Or should I get rid of all three?! :)
Considering that - I have outside gear that can seq trigs/CV, albeit limited with minimal Euclid/random functions - such as: Keystep Pro, MicroFreak, DFAM, Neutron via midi input and a soon to be modded Roland MC202 with new Tubbutec seq, even the Roland TR8S can switch it’s individual outs to trigs.

Also, what specific utilities you would add to this?

I guess I need a mult, mutes/a-b switch? Anything else? Maybe a S&H?

Also - I’ve got the 3xMIA there to double as extra VCAs/mixer - can these also be used to reduce voltage down to line level? - for example plugging into an external sampler/looper
EDIT - OK, as I was typing that I realised the answer is likely no.
So - yes, like the 2xSAM for line input - I think I want at least one stereo line out in addition to the ES-6 interface to the motu/computer.

I've had two of these show up defective. The second time it initiated a modification of the firmware.
I would say you are gambling with the build quality when you purchase anything from Mosaic.

EDITED Jul 6th 2023, 13:47

no tengo muy claro como iría todo seteado...

CIRCUIT:
llevaría quizás platos? (hasta que me compre hats) semicorcheas (con platos, no con percs)
cajas
trig y cv (note) para plonk y BIA
quizás me quede en un mismo pattern mucho tiempo, simplemente cambiando sonidos, y cambiando lentamente algunas notas, o algo de cada pista
midi--> black midi (que estaría bajo la case)
en un futuro, comprar YARNS, y controlar el bombo y platos desde circuit también
el bombo manda su audio (--> atenuador) a la circuit, para recibir delay (y quizás reverb) además podríamos darle el efecto deejay, cambiando el filtro de la circuit (a agudos), para hacer un drop, p.ej...

PICO TRIG:
creo que trigaría bombo y plato
(tendría una zona para platos rápidos, para bombos sincopados ...)
pico trig --> muta jovis --> bombo / plato hat
también trigaría radio

PLONK:
-canción A: sería semicorcheas
-canción B: sería un poco más lead (las semicorcheas entonces vendrían desde la circuit, como platos)

MALEKKO:
-radio?
-BIA (ya recive cv desde circuit)
-hat (bia)
-plonk (bia)
con diferentes memorias (mucho 7x4, 5x4.. variaciones...)

BD 9:
enviaría su audio para la circuit para recibir delay

FILTRO BEFACO:
-plonk (filtrado suave)
-bia
despues de uno de los filtros ,se podría poner pico dsp (para darle reverb, wet/dry)

MIXER NEGRO: (envia fx, a fx aid)
-radio
-bia (que ya viene de filtro befaco)
-dfam

PICO MIX: (envia fx a filtro, filtrado suave)
-plonk
-hat
envia --> filtro --> pico dsp (wet/dry con un poco de reverb)

LADIK SEQ:
para dfam

ATENUADORES:
bombo, mix L, mix R, pico mix

EDITED Jun 12th 2023, 02:45

KORG ESX:
aquí tendríamos bombo, caja, platos, y otras percs
tendríamos el bajo (sampleado) y un posible lead (sampleado)
Los bajos podrían estar grabados en algunos temas, o no, (indicarlo en el título del pattern)
Se podría grabar en el "teclado" de la propia esx, para ahorrar tener que llevar un teclado.
la entrada de audio externa para la voz, y quizás la volca drum...

VOLCA DRUM:
en la case
tendríamos un bombo, plato, caja, y otras percs...
serviría para hacer una transición entre canciones.
canción A - con las percs de la esx
cancion B - con las percs de la volca drum
p.ej.
Su salida necesita de filtro, quizás lo pasamos por korg esx, y le damos filtro

CLOCK:
esx --> midi a volca drum --> sync a ladik (o malekko)

PICO INPUT:
para la voz--> zoom ms70 (noise gate) y fx--> korg esx?

LADIK SEQ:
para dfam
creo que me cabría también el maleko (y así tendría un lfo para dfm)

FX AID:
para la dfam
fx aid--> atenuador --> mix out

EDITED Jun 12th 2023, 01:59

I've replace the original rack with a new setup. I tried to make it less cramped.

I replaced several modules starting with the oscillator and replaced it with an Instruo Cs-L. In my main rack I stayed away from complex oscillators since I wanted the functions as discrete modules so that I had more control, but in this case it's nice to have a lot of tools in a somewhat more compact space.

I still have 6hp to fill, but can't decide what to put there. If I go with this setup, I may just leave that blank until I have a better idea of what I need after I've played with it for a while.

I'd say too many voices and not enough utilities, but I almost always say that...

I'm looking to expand on the Taiga and have a rack to take with me when I'm traveling for work. I would bring my computer with me and have Ableton to do some squencing/CV duties through the ES-8 if needed.

A fan of Joranalogue, I see. I have their Generate 3, which I'm still learning how to use, in my main rack and have considered getting the Filter 8.

Nice! Yes, something like this would be great.
👍👍

I would like to easily filter out blank panels.
-- jgb

Second on this

-- Dub007

something like this?

or is there another context where excluding blank panels makes sense?

I actually recently put together a case with similar intentions. Also a small (in my case travel) rack selected from my larger racks. Around the same size too. This was my solution:

EDITED Jun 11th 2023, 05:14

Thanks for the suggestions! The problem with using a larger case for a while then trying to come up with something small, is that you want all of the tools you're used to using but you need to make them fit

I had the two filters just to give me the option of having a choice of filter. I can, though, pull out those two filters and replace it with the Morpheus from my main rack (which would give me plenty of filter options) and that would save me 4hp. I suppose the BIA doesn't really need a filter.

The uO_C is there to provide extra envelopes for modulation. I also have it there as a general toolbox. I do have a Batumi in my main case but I also have the expander module with is 3hp (I'd need to add another odd hp module if I don't want to be left with a 1hp hole taunting me).

I totally agree with getting rid of the Flexshaper. Actually, if I remove that along with the Twin Wave and the Bifold (and combining the space I save with using the Morpheus) I can use that space for a complex oscillator like the Instruo Cs-L or the Cosmotronic Vortex.

As for the amount of modulation, I wanted as much as I could get in there, especially for the NE modules which really do thrive on it.

Well, something to think about.

It's too cramped for my taste. Two filters in a case this size seems unnecessary. I would drop either the Wasp filter or the Belgrad. I'd drop the Utopia and the Flexshaper (too many cramped knobs). I'd drop all the 4hp modules. These modules aren't particularly flexible anyway since they're missing a lot of useful features. Focus on a few larger and more flexible and playable utilities.

With the extra space I'd add Make Noise Maths, Joranalogue Select 2, Happy Nerding 3xMIA, and maybe Joranalogue Compare 2. Since the Joranalogue Select 2 gives you offsets, sample&hold, AND switches, you can also drop the ADDAC215 Dual S&H.

Also, depending on what you want to do with it, I'm not sure you need the uO_c. You've got quantization built into the Usta already. XAOC Batumi would be a much more playable way to bring in more modulation, but honestly you have tons already.

EDITED Jun 10th 2023, 19:56

This is great! Sounds great and the video compliments it perfectly. Thanks for sharing.
-- TumeniKnobs

Thank you so much for your kind feedback. Made me happy! 😊

This is great! Sounds great and the video compliments it perfectly. Thanks for sharing.

I would like to easily filter out blank panels.
-- jgb

Second on this

Hi together,
I got a very nice and fast and concise answer from Martin at Konstant Lab, perfect service, very happy!

I hope it is ok to put this here to close the thread:
(...) This connector is placed on the PCB mainly so that the HammerPWR can also be used for quick connection to the system without the need to connect busboards via WAGO terminals, or for a quick test of a module, at the same time we use this connector to test the HammerPWR during output control.
With the 16-pin IDC connector, there is a small 3-pin jumper that can be used to switch whether the +12V voltage from section "A" or section "B" will go to the output of the IDC connector (...)

Cheers, Ron

EDITED Oct 11th 2024, 14:10

Great work on the design of this patch! Your House Jam took me back to the end of the 80s :)
The ‘second summer of love’ and the years that followed were a truly creative and sincere period.
The good old days.

Nice work and breakdown! That bassline especially sounds great 🕺🏼

This patch started out with the idea of using a stage sequencer to generate longer patterns from the Moog Subharmonicon. It then grew into a larger "classic house" track, with funky bass and glitchy vocals.

Hi all!
I have just installed HammerPWR into my case (Nono Lander Two, just in case you were wondering ;-). All is fine so far, but I have stumbled over this question, that I cannot seem to find an answer to:
On the HammerPWR board there are the two sets of Wago connectors which lead to the bus boards, so far so good. The manual recommends to evenly load these two sets, also clear. Where does the 16-pin IDC connector fit in, though; is it somehow limited or does it draw power from one of the sides? Or does it have any other features?
Thanks Ron

Basic flow from Beatstep to oscillators. Uses dual Amelias w/ Plaits & Lorelei
Bypasses Uburst. Because I don't think it can do 100% dry signal. Still an option.
No lpg vactrols or modulation from maths here really.

In this case Forbidden Planet lpf comes before Pandora. Try both and see which sounds best.

Try switching Plaits and Lorelei to lpgs instead of Amelias. Now Amelias can be LFOs instead of envelopes.

EDITED Jun 9th 2023, 02:46

(Edit: Updated rack setup)

A couple of days ago I posted a proposed 4u 104HP Intellijel rack setup that I'd hoped to use as something portable to experiment with. After considering the advice, I realized that to get something truly useful I would, at least, need to have an external sequencer (which goes against the requirement that it be self-contained).

So now I'm back with another proposed case, specifically the Mantis. With the extra room, I can bring over the Usta sequencer from my desktop rack. I also decided to include some other modules from my main rack.

Along with Usta, the other modules I already own are: PNW, Zadar, Time Warp, Kamieniec, Pro Output, and Wasp.

I've also reduced it to essentially two voices: rhythmic and melodic.

Any comments, advice, or suggestions on the new rack design would be appreciated.

EDITED Jun 12th 2023, 00:23

An hour in, have not looked the the manual yet, or followed any YouTubes, and it's already awesome. I'm feeding it Magerit Laniakea sounds so far. Not sure it's worth the HP, but during the honeymoon it sure is so far.

EDITED Jun 8th 2023, 21:01

There's some Marbles clones like Pachinko that I like.

there are full size clones too - you say you have big hands... go for a full size clone!!!

you'll almost definitely want some envelope generators and 'regular' lfos too...

the pico trio:
I think the layout of my Neutron strikes a good balance, it has lots of knobs but they're usable and there's actual space around them.

no idea never seen one in the flesh

if you go for the mantis & you should then you can get a bigger lpg... an optomix for example... which have more controls and better ergonomics (see below) and seem to be available again... and I'd also look to add a second vco (possibly another ona) and a better submixer(s) with controls for - possibly something modeled after the moog cp3 - adds a nice bit of grit when driven - AISynthesis Hamonic Mixer for example - I'm considering adding another 1 or 2 analog oscillators and will want to add 2 or 3 of these Harmonix mixers when I do...

The Mantis was a great recommendation, will probably go with that. The Harmonic Mixer also sounds interesting.

yeah... a Mantis was my second case - I often wonder, if I'd been able to buy a mantis 1st if I'd have been able to stick to it - I needed the space to add maths! which is an excellent module btw - particularly because it has so much educational documentation - both in videos and pdf form ('Maths Illustrated Supplement' - download it and read through it even if you don't buy one!!)

As for LPGs and stuff, what's your take on the Doepfner modules? They have a quad-VCA and a dual-LPG/VCA for example (A-101-2 and A-130-2, both have a nice layout too.)

for me the best vca has always been Veils - I have 3 of the originals... it's possible to buy clones of the mk2 version which adds features... I have a doepfer lpg - but it's the single channel 8hp one - I like it!

are you intending on using the peaks clone for modulation?
what are your intentions for o&c

I wanted the Peaks for envelopes and LFO mostly (and some other cool tricks with new firmware). The O&C mostly for some flexible CV modulation, something that can do loops and (semi-) random stuff. But maybe Marbles would be better for that (and no menu-diving there), so I haven't decided that yet. There's some Marbles clones like Pachinko that I like.

the pico trio:
You know, the more often you mention your dislike for small modules the more I get it :D I noticed that a lot of modern modules are very dense, many knobs and stuff in as few HP as possible. Tiptop and Mutable went a different route for example with some of their modules and they seem so much more accessible. And I have big hands too, so maybe I should stay away from Pico stuff.

I think the layout of my Neutron strikes a good balance, it has lots of knobs but they're usable and there's actual space around them.

if you go for the mantis & you should then you can get a bigger lpg... an optomix for example... which have more controls and better ergonomics (see below) and seem to be available again... and I'd also look to add a second vco (possibly another ona) and a better submixer(s) with controls for - possibly something modeled after the moog cp3 - adds a nice bit of grit when driven - AISynthesis Hamonic Mixer for example - I'm considering adding another 1 or 2 analog oscillators and will want to add 2 or 3 of these Harmonix mixers when I do...

The Mantis was a great recommendation, will probably go with that. The Harmonic Mixer also sounds interesting.

As for LPGs and stuff, what's your take on the Doepfner modules? They have a quad-VCA and a dual-LPG/VCA for example (A-101-2 and A-130-2, both have a nice layout too.)

-- JimHowell1970

Those are great recommendations, thanks!

I'm looking at a bigger rack now (Mantis 2x 104 HP) that would also fit my Neutron, so my ideas may have changed a bit (see my latest sketch here.)

Check out BASTL Softpop 2 - It has so much features in little space. -
Also make noise 0-coast

I get what you're saying, but right now I don't really want a full "voice" module because one of my motivations was to be, well, modular with my setup. I might come back to one of those if I kick out my Neutron sometime in the future though =)

Did you check BASTL Ikarie? - also a nice filter with some tricks on it.

Will have a look, thanks.

If you get BASTL Basil, you can also switch the firmware to the pizza VCO.
BASTL Pizza has many stuff like FM and waveshaping/wavefolding.
Or get pizza first and try out the basil-firmware later.

Didn't realize it's the same module with different firmware, good to know! How does that work actually, does the Pizza use some DSP? Otherwise I don't see how waveshaping and delay could be done by the same circuit.

I have the ONA VCO. I like to mix the different waveforms with Befaco Percall.
You can also use it as LFO.

The Percall looks cool, and mixer + 4x decay sounds convenient too. With my Neutron I already have an LFO and 2 VCOs so there's no need for that right now. Are you satisfied with the ONA?

Ornament and Crime or Disting could also be an idea, to try out or to add different functions with little space.

Yes I'm thinking that too. Any opinion on Ornament&Crime vs. Marbles? I'm having some concerns about menu-diving on the O&C (also something I want to get away from with modular) so Marbles could be more fun for me. Were you able to try both at some point?

-- MCGM

ok looking a bit better... comments on the last revision only...

MISO is a great addition but primarily as an attenuverter (scale/invert) and offset (both really useful) but mixing on that module to me is an after thought - as you will probably be using the other functions more often for modulation...

are you intending on using the peaks clone for modulation?

what are your intentions for o&c - I find a lot of multi-purpose modules get used for one purpose a lot of the time... if you are intending this as a modulation source I would personally go for a better modulation source - if you are intending on using it for modulation (as well as the peaks) then you might want to consolidate and get a dedicated quad modulation source instead - batumi for example...

the pico trio:

I had a pico seq... to sequence chord progression changes on my sinfonion - hated it... tiny and awkward to use (especially the reset) I wouldn't really recommend any module under 4hp... especially not next to each other unless jacks only or mostly set and forget...

do you really need an output module?? I've never needed one in 7 years... I started with a small in rack panning mixer that had a headphone output built in, then went straight into an external mixer (small yamaha) that was fine with modular levels as a lot of newer mixers are and now use a tesseract tex-mix mixer, which has headphones built in and when I use speakers send the master of that to the yamaha...

I'd seriously lose the pico vca - again - get a full size veils clone!!!! it's a proper investment in your modular!

if you still want the rackbrute keep the lpg - to even up the hp usage, if I remember rightly the rackbrute is a weird 89hp or something...

if you go for the mantis & you should then you can get a bigger lpg... an optomix for example... which have more controls and better ergonomics (see below) and seem to be available again... and I'd also look to add a second vco (possibly another ona) and a better submixer(s) with controls for - possibly something modeled after the moog cp3 - adds a nice bit of grit when driven - AISynthesis Hamonic Mixer for example - I'm considering adding another 1 or 2 analog oscillators and will want to add 2 or 3 of these Harmonix mixers when I do...

ergonomics: newbies often don't realise just how small eurorack modules actually are... 1hp = 5.08mm (or 1/5") - accessibility to modules & controls is important... & your fingers are about 4hp wide... bigger cases and bigger modules are better because of this...

Check out BASTL Softpop 2 - It has so much features in little space. -
Also make noise 0-coast

You could take on of them and build your system around it - just adding some utillities.

You can use them also standalone outside of rackspace - so you could take a smaller case only for utillities and pair it with them.

If I would start now from 0 - I would do it that way.

Otherwise

Did you check BASTL Ikarie? - also a nice filter with some tricks on it.

If you get BASTL Basil, you can also switch the firmware to the pizza VCO.
BASTL Pizza has many stuff like FM and waveshaping/wavefolding.
Or get pizza first and try out the basil-firmware later.
You maybe dont need an extra waveshaper/folder module then.

I have the ONA VCO. I like to mix the different waveforms with Befaco Percall.
You can also use it as LFO.

Ornament and Crime or Disting could also be an idea, to try out or to add different functions with little space.
You can use Ornament and Crime, as quad turing maschine, Envelopes, sequencers, quad quantizer and many more.

Future House (EDM) Patch 1 with OSI-OP & XFMR VCA : Vaemi (Eurorack)

vaemi #futurehouse #patch1 #futurehousepatch #edm #analog #osiop #xfmrvca #synthesizer #eurorack #tzfm #thruzero #throughzero #frequencymodulation #audiotransformer #saturation #wobble #feedback #futurehousepatch1 #dancemusic

www.vaemi.net

EDITED Jun 8th 2023, 16:22

your linked rack is private, so unviewable

My bad, I was messing with my settings. There's now versions now: The one I referenced in my reply, and a new one that I came up with after thinking a bit more about my options.

The new setup also addresses some things you mention in your last reply. For example, it now has a pretty cool mixer (MISIO) and only one oscillator (ONA). Together with the Neutron stuff I think it's a nice rig. All this thinking about my setup and going back and forth between options at least left me with a pretty good idea of what I want, so that's nice.

I will definitely have a look at the Mantis too! (The TipTop modules are nice and I like their accessible layout.)

EDITED Jun 8th 2023, 17:19

Purchased a LL8 2 from @Hebus524 - good coms, packed like new- very happy, highly recommended.

EDITED Jun 8th 2023, 10:27

I looked at the Arturia RackBrute 6U with almost 3x the space. (You can find a rack sketch in my profile.)

I cannot truly express how much I dislike the rackbrutes... I could write whole sentences about it, the main point being the rack wart... why waste 5hp for a power input module??? really the tiptop mantis is a much better case (bigger/better power/no rack wart) for about the same money... get a mantis... or don't...

your linked rack is private, so unviewable

This might me the perfect size for me actually because it can (for now) fit my Neutron as well. The Neutron supports Eurorack rails and would be a great utility kit for the other modules: 2 VCOs, LFO, VCF, two ENVs, S&H, and even a delay! I can already see that this makes so much sense if I can interface those with my new modules.

of those, only the s&h is a utility as far as I'm concerned...

I'd want vcas as well... at least a quad...

Good point, but let's compromise on 2 VCAs + 2 LPGs ;-)

LPGs are intended for audio, think of the poor modulation... vcas are useful for cv as well as audio... if you are going to skimpon this I'd suggest one of the 2 channel veils clones - so you can get a second one in the future and correct your folly... the ability to cascade is important as it means you also get vc mixing...

hmm... I suggest some time spent thinking about the contents of my signature...

So you're telling me I need more controls/utilities? I added a bunch in my new rack, and then I'd now also have the Neutron. That ought to be enough for my first steps.

no, what I'm telling you to do is think very hard about the architecture of synthesizers and what makes modular actually make sense...

for example - if you have just an lfo, an envelope generator, a vco, a vcf and a vca - you have a very very basic monosynth... if you add in some utilities... let's say a simple mixer and a mult and some attenuverters you can mix the waveforms of the vco to create more complex ones before filtering the vco and you can modulate by different amounts the various parameters of the vco, the vcf, and possibly the envelope generator - giving you a much more interesting monosynth for very little extra cash - utilities massively increase the patching potential

can't see them (see above)

won't you be using the neutron as a voice so tying up the components? and see above

I take it you have an external mixer for end of chain mixing?

how are you going to raise the levels of the external synths to modular level fir processing?

Yes I run my other synths into an external mixer to get a line out/headphone signal. Eurorack output would plug into that as well. But like you said, I'd want a mixer in my rack for some down mix/level adjustment for sure.

almost definitely more than 1 mixer (which is why quad cascading vca - ie vc mixer) and some amplification (full size veils clone as it has lots of gain - enough to raise line level to modular level - as well as being a quad cascading vca)

Super easy transaction with @wtkdwc
Communication, shipping, packaging all top notch.
I wanted one... ended up with two... both in perfect condition functionally and visually.
Recommended.

• Room for expansion... there should be 8-10 HP left in my rack.

hahaha - thar's not room for expansion ....
-- JimHowell1970

consider to replace HP with U when thinking about room for expansion :D
just kidding - but 8-10 HP will not be enough.

Modular, it’s both very simple and very complicated.
It’s like a wedding reception: you can choose the venue (a dream case), you invite whoever you want (some cool modules), each can be placed ‘just about’ anywhere you like but be careful: you have to make sure that everyone will have enough to eat and drink (power requirement), otherwise you'll spoil the party!
Ah, also, anticipating the outs in the ins, being far-sighted ;)

and a full review / quick tute

I’ve thought of the same question “do all modules need to be on the same power supply”.. but more from an electronics POV.

I have 2 cases that use multiple power supplies - never had a problem...

I’ve thought of the same question “do all modules need to be on the same power supply”.. but more from an electronics POV.

Thank all for the suggestions. I've been using a larger setup for the past couple of years, so trying to squeeze into a smaller space is pretty foreign to me.

It seems like any kind of decent sequencing is going to need a good chunk of real estate. Like I mentioned in my first post, I have considered getting a keystep pro to handle those duties (though that would make it a little harder to use the rack as a laptop). I forgot about O_C (for a bigger rack I prefer discrete modules, but when pressed for space it's a good compromise).

I'm also now thinking about just going with the mantis case. That way I wouldn't need an external sequencer. In my "desktop" rack I have a nerdseq (for when I want to sequence a composition) and an usta (for experimenting). If I go with the mantis, I can move the usta to it and still have a respectable amount of room for other modules. The only trick with mantis is the power zones and remembering that the -12V rail provides less current than the +12.

I think I need to do an exercise with my main rack where I only let myself use a small subset of modules and see where I come up short.

Well, I have some thinking to do. Thanks, again!

There's a discussion here: https://www.modwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3977886#p3977886

Thanks for taking the time to rely, I appreciate your input! I think you pointed out some things that I wasn't (very) aware of.

this is a common mistake - these cases are really too small for anything other than satellite cases for bigger systems or extremely focused single purpose synths...

Yes, maybe I was too focused on staying small and 62HP is indeed not enough. As an alternative plan, I looked at the Arturia RackBrute 6U with almost 3x the space. (You can find a rack sketch in my profile.)

This might me the perfect size for me actually because it can (for now) fit my Neutron as well. The Neutron supports Eurorack rails and would be a great utility kit for the other modules: 2 VCOs, LFO, VCF, two ENVs, S&H, and even a delay! I can already see that this makes so much sense if I can interface those with my new modules.

Of course the Neutron takes up most of one row, but I can always take it out later when my module collection grows and I need the extra space.

which means no way to generate 'composed' sequences of pitch (there are ways to do this even with a steppy, but not without a dedicated mixer) plus if you want to make 'music' which fits in with other instruments you will almost definitely need a quantizer...

Yes I'm aware of that, maybe I didn't make it clear. My main sequencer is the Digitakt which sends MIDI/CV (and I have a Keystep too.) Hence for now I probably don't need pitch sequencing/quantization in my rack. I was thinking more about having some means of looping CV inputs or envelope triggers that go beyond what an LFO can do. But maybe I'll go with some Marbles clone instead...

I'd want vcas as well... at least a quad...

Good point, but let's compromise on 2 VCAs + 2 LPGs ;-)

• Cascades and Brooks - I first considered the NANO ONA but now moved on to (part of) the After Later Audio COCO series, with the "Cascades" as the main oscillator and "Brooks" as secondary.

I think 2 oscillators in this size case is too many... and you probably need more modules to support them... a mixer for example

I forgot about a mixer, it's good that you bring it up. As for oscillators: The Brooks interfaces nicely with Cascades and doesn't take much space. I figure that additional VCOs would be great for wave-folding (and also for LFO purposes). But actually, now I'm thinking of ditching the Timber for the Valley by After Later Audio, which is also part of their COCO series.

hmm... I suggest some time spent thinking about the contents of my signature...

So you're telling me I need more controls/utilities? I added a bunch in my new rack, and then I'd now also have the Neutron. That ought to be enough for my first steps.

I take it you have an external mixer for end of chain mixing?

how are you going to raise the levels of the external synths to modular level fir processing?

Yes I run my other synths into an external mixer to get a line out/headphone signal. Eurorack output would plug into that as well. But like you said, I'd want a mixer in my rack for some down mix/level adjustment for sure.

Jim and Radical aren't wrong exactly, but I think this is doable with a few caveats:

1) you will be menu diving
2) you won't get the range you want from a full system, but you can have some fun

Here's my crack at it:

1) Steppy isn't a great choice here, we can get better sequencing, so it's replaced with a Duatt in the 1U row to create more mixing possibilities for modulation, a scope (always useful), and a lowpass gate for when you want something a little different
2) an Ornament and Crime creates A LOT more opportunity for generative ambient and such, it's super versatile with a bunch of modes and will open this thing up
3) a Pam's can do so much, trigger sequencing like a Steppy but also LFOs, function generation, euclidean rhythms, etc.
4) Warps over a dedicated wave folder, it gives you a bunch of options for other types of sound mangling, and it's still available both used and new
5) ochd is great but you don't have room for it, Pam's replaces the Clep Diaz, and you need some more VCAs, so a Doepfer quad steps in to do the trick
6) FX Aid XL is cool and has lots of effects, you could also choose the ALM multi-effect though it's got fewer effects
7) 6hp for a mixer is too much here and you can use your Doepfer quad VCA for mixing, so I've replaced it with a Nearness v3 and a Disting mk4 opening up all sorts of other functions plus on the fly recording

All together, I think this thing could keep you busy and be a good learning rack to try out ideas and some demo recordings which is honestly half the battle.

I think I can see where you're going with this, and I have to agree with Jim, two voices max in 104hp. But if this is a first case, I think sticking to 104hp is good. It's a good discipline to stay small at least when starting. Otherwise you tend to try and "fill the gaps" and not spend time with what you have.

All that being said, I have had a lot of these modules in my case, or have them now, so I can give you some concrete feedback. I can see totally see the idea of a bass voice in the BIA and the other voice with Dixie/Fold/Belgrad. Those are great choices, although I chose Bifold. Smaller, two distinct flavors of folder.

As your only sequencer, I wouldn't go with MD. I find it really fiddly to do anything with precision. I always recommend a Beatstep pro. Super powerful, easy to use, 0HP.

Eurorack is all about modulation, and you want to be able to have good control over that. Ochd isn't really that. My current favorite, and "desert island" modulation source would be Quadrax. Easy to mess with, envelopes, LFOs and some random.

I love me some effects in the rack, and the Versios are all great, so that makes sense too. I'm not sure I'd go with those 1U VCAs as the only VCAs. There are good single or double VCAs, with attenuator, in 4-6HP packages, I'd pick one of those.

And then some blank panels to fill the gaps. Beyond that I have opinions as to what I would put in those blank spots, but it's not my rack it's yours, so mess around with the above and fill the rest in once you determine you need something.

I think you're trying to do too much in too small a case here...

I'd reduce to at most 2 sound sources (and even that's pushing it imo) otherwise there won't be enough room for support modules... although you might be able to use something like the doepfer mini synth voice to a whole voice in less hp...

personally I'd go for something like a mantis instead of this - still very portable - I've carried one many times on planes, trains and buses... and not much bigger - maybe a couple of inches - but you'll fit a lot more in a 3u row than in a 1u row... and then you'll probably be able to cram in 3 voices and still have enough space to adequately support them

It was great talking to someone experienced, thank you again.
-- justine404

I've been putting a rack (actually, multiple small racks) together for a couple of years now with the intention of having a respectably-sized setup for when I finally retire many years from now. The problem with what I currently have is that I can't just toss it in the car and take to a friend's place or bring it to work to fiddle with during my lunch hour (and maybe when in a boring tele-meeting with the mute on). So, I was thinking of coming up with a small case that is portable that I can just play around with.

I'd like to keep it as self-contained as possible (other than speakers). I'm figuring I'll start with an Intellijel 4U 104HP palette. For sequencing, I was thinking steppy and a mimetic (and though it's counter to my self-contained rule, I do keep going back and forth considering a keystep pro).

I wanted three voices: some form of percussion, a bassline, and a melody voice. After that, I'd like a nice little collection of modules for sound shaping and modulation.

The rack I linked is a first draft of what I was thinking of putting together. I'm not really set on any of the modules, and since I'd only be getting one or two modules each month, it will probably change as I go.

I'd appreciate any advice or suggestions. Am I missing anything? Anything you consider a waste of space? Is anything overlapping functionally?