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you mentioned a "hiss problem", when working with ES-9 and Morphagene or Mimeophon... what exactly is the problem there? Do you know, where it is coming from?

It's actually not related to the ES-9. The hiss problem has been discussed at length on Mod Wiggler, for example in the main Mimeophon thread. I'm not sure if the cause of the hiss has been identified.

You can hear the hiss at 00:54 here (not my video):

I have tried the modules in both an Erica Synths 6U Monster Case and a 4MS 40X Pod, and the problem has been present in both configurations. I will soon try with a Meanwell 120W PSU and Konstant Lab HammerPWR with a filtered bus board. I'm in Europe.
-- ecstatic_sutherland

Just a quick update: the hiss is still present with the Meanwell 120W PSU and Konstant Lab HammerPWR with a filtered bus board power solution.

What else would you like to see in the system? Or are there any modules you would replace?

I'm would be curious to hear about modules I may have missed, or interesting alternatives. 😊

More advanced than keystep pro?... uh, ok.

Advanced may not be the right word. 🤔 One limitation is the lack of channels/outputs when it comes to complete arrangements. Four channels with only one mod output per channel isn't quite enough for my case. Another limitation is that it's difficult to get an overview of the arrangement. Also, while patterns can be sequenced together, I don't think it's convenient to program entire songs on it. As things stand right now, I think the DAW is the best option for me when I get to this stage.

My thinking is that things like Keystep Pro, O-Ctrl and Marbles can inspire me and help me get started. The DAW can be a bit uninspiring to me, but when I get to the point where I'm hit with the limitations in Keystep Pro, I'm hoping it won't matter. 😊

I do have some experience with NerdSeq and I love it, because it makes a kind of Metal Gear Solid retro feeling to me.
It is capable of playing back loads of programmed information and modulation [...]
But NerdSeq really needs all of my patience, and it feels a bit like programming - I'm also attaching an external display and a computer-keyboard with the expander, haha!
I don't work with external midi-gear but there is a limited option for micro timings in Nerdseq => it affects a whole step in the pattern, not only one note.

Maybe this information helps you.

BTW: whats your goal with the overall rack? Recording, live gigs, improvisation, playing with band...?

Thank you, it sure does!

I was eyeing that display and keyboard expander as well. 😊

My goal is to record songs that are more... organic than retro. Ambient soundscapes, but probably IDM and glitchy stuff as well. In that context, I'm suspecting NerdSEQ might be a bit too rigid.

EDITED Nov 14th 2022, 11:37

Have you thought about Bitbox or anything similar?

I have been looking for more advanced sequencers than Keystep Pro. So far, the most interesting eurorack option has probably been the NerdSEQ, but I don't like how “grid-based” it is. I tried FH-2 with Squarp Pyramid (with an external keyboard), but I didn't jive with that UI either.

Have you thought about Bitbox or anything similar?

By the way... I did try the Bluebox as well, with a similar experience. Sold that too. 😊

I like your setup and especially that you want to be able to work without external computer.
Have you thought about Bitbox or anything similar? It's of course not as direct as the DAW-link via ES-9, but works in some ways also without DAW.

After having tried and sold a Blackbox, I suspect the Bitbox isn't for me. I didn't like the experience of using the Blackbox, and I suspect Bitbox might be similar. Reading about it, I got the feeling that's it's a bit menu divy and unpolished. So I went for the Assimil8or instead. Assimil8or has a higher bitrate and so far seems like a better fit for me personally.

Thanks for your thoughts!

you mentioned a "hiss problem", when working with ES-9 and Morphagene or Mimeophon... what exactly is the problem there? Do you know, where it is coming from?

It's actually not related to the ES-9. The hiss problem has been discussed at length on Mod Wiggler, for example in the main Mimeophon thread. I'm not sure if the cause of the hiss has been identified.

You can hear the hiss at 00:54 here (not my video):

I have tried the modules in both an Erica Synths 6U Monster Case and a 4MS 40X Pod, and the problem has been present in both configurations. I will soon try with a Meanwell 120W PSU and Konstant Lab HammerPWR with a filtered bus board. I'm in Europe.

EDITED Nov 13th 2022, 13:17

Hi!

What do you think of my setup?

My sound sources are Assimil8or, Morphagene, Akemie's Castle, DPO, STO, Stages (in harmonic oscillator mode) and Panharmonium. This gives me high-resolution sampling (Assimil8or), old-school digital FM (Akemie's Castle), an analog complex oscillator with FM (DPO) and additive synthesis (Stages and Panharmonium). The DPO adds some additional analog waveforms and a sub-oscillator.

Filters like Ripples/Popple, Shelves, Variable Q VCF and Resonant Equalizer provide warmth. Erbe-Verbe and Echophon provide digital effects that are a bit on the lo-fi/cold side. It may be a bit overkill, but I put three FX AID XL in there as well, for additional effects and utilities.

Speaking of potential overkill, I put three Mixups in there. I'm using ES-9 with Ableton Live, but I like to be able to work without a computer as well. (I'm having the hiss problem with both Mimeophon and Morphagene (when mix/SOS is not fully CW), so I'm planning to use the “IN 3L” and “IN 3R” Mixup channels to be able to adjust the levels related to those modules.)

A Keystep Pro is used for sequencing (if Ableton Live is not used for that). 0-Ctrl can sequence as well, and be quantized using Scales if desired. I'm planning to try to use Frames to extend the CV capabilities of the KeyStep Pro.

Dual VCDrive modules can add distortion to the stereo audio from Morphagene. Streams can act as a stereo LPG.

The second Stages can provide envelopes and LFOs for Akemie's Castle.

O'Tool+ can be used for tuning.

The WMD MSCL compressor can glue the mix together if desired.

Thanks!

EDITED Nov 13th 2022, 17:30

That's cool, I can see how the analog oscillators help with that. :)

For me, I like to focus on only one voice module for now. I find that limiting my options makes things less distracting for me. Besides, I have a Nord keyboard and Ableton Live for my polyphony needs!

The modules I have are the ones in the image above.

For the Akemie's Castle setup, I decided to throw Rings out for now and get a QPAS as my “final” module. I think the extra filtering capabilities will come in handy, and it will be fun to try some stereo processing. I will also switch out FHX-8CV for Ears to get an envelope follower in the rack. I now feel that all modules in the rack are working together and are supporting Akemie's Castle in a way that is relevant for what I want to explore right now.

For modulation, I have decided to experiment using CV Tools in Ableton Live, and see how that goes.

For extra effects, I will use Ableton Live (perhaps adding on to it Valhalla VintageVerb and Valhalla Shimmer).

And when I want to explore the other modules, I can switch out Akemie's Castle for Morphagene, Rings and Quantum Rainbow 2, and have something very different to play around with.

Thanks for your thoughts! :)

Perhaps an analog multimode filter like Jouranalogue Filter 8 or Make Noise QPAS could make sense to further shape the sound?

Hi!

Thanks again! :)

I'm curious about combining Akemie's Castle with analog oscillators. Are you combining these in any specific ways? Are there any typical “roles”, or so, for the modules?

My idea was to use Stages (and perhaps Frames) for modulation. Do you think something like Zadar would make things a lot more convenient? Would you get the NIN expander?

After having thought some more about this, I'm actually thinking that Rings may be a bit too complicated as an effect for my system, and that I should perhaps take it out for now. I like to keep the system focused and not too “open” while exploring Akemie's Castle, and Rings is so dynamic. Have you used Akemie's Castle with Rings?

In line with keeping the system focused, I'm a bit hesitant to get modules like Erica Synths Black Hole DSP and Happy Nerding FX Aid (which seem absolutely awesome), since they are so flexible. I also think there might be too much overlap between what Dual Looping Delay, and what Echophon and Morphagene can do.

If I would take Rings out I have 20 HP to spare to enhance the sound of Akemie's Castle... :)

Cheers!

Also, effects that make the sounds more rich/dynamic, or thicken up the sounds, would be interesting as well!

EDITED Jul 1st 2020, 20:25

Three quick thoughts:

1) What music are you hoping to make here? The answer might be different for techno vs ambient (or both at the same time)
2) I have an Akemie and find that the XAOC Zadar is a fantastic modulation source for it as you can quickly pan through a huge range of sounds and you get four envelopes out of it.
3) This is a ton of support for just one voice (well two with Akemie). Not sure if this is a good suggestion or not but I'd try to fit another voice in there, analog or digital either way.
-- troux

Hi! :) Good points!

1) I'm interested in ambient (like Biosphere) and electronica (like Autechre).
2) Thanks for the tip!
3) So far, I've been meaning to focus on Akemie's Castle, and then to explore Rings (exciting it using external audio) and Morphagene. But I'm curious about ideas as to what additional, complementary, voice sources could be, though!

Thanks!

EDITED Jul 1st 2020, 20:26

The top two rows here is my rack for working with Akemie's Castle:

The modules in the third row are modules that are currently unconnected, as I'm focusing on Akemie's Castle at the moment.

What do you think?

Do you have any suggestions for modules that could enhance working with Akemie's Castle?

(Modules that could enhance my work with Morphagene, or just be helpful in general, would be welcome as well!)

Thanks! :)

Hi, everyone!

I've been thinking about this for a while, and my idea is now to focus on Rings and noise generation/mixing for now. I may be a bit crazy not planning on getting Elements, but I would like to experiment with Rings using noise, a contact mic, and external audio sources, for now.

I pretty much consistently chose Mutable Instruments modules rather than narrower or slightly cheaper modules because I like Mutable Instruments (such as the open source approach and the aesthetics) and because I wanted a built-in contact mic. I might be getting an A-119 later. I will also wait on the Clouds successor for now.

Given these decisions, I would love to hear your thoughts generally, and about whether or not these modules seem to make sense together. :)

I put Ears to the right since I'm right handed, and I'm kind of loosely thinking that the patching will mainly go from right to left.

I got lots of cables and inline mults.

Thanks again for all the information and great advice! I have learned a lot through this thread. :)

Take care!

Oh, I just noticed that there is a CV Envelope Follower in CV Tools:

https://www.ableton.com/en/blog/cv-tools-live-coming-soon/

Besides the convenience of Ears (the tactile surface, the possibility of not having to go through the computer, the hands-on experience), what are its benefits? Will the analog/digital conversions of going through the computer have a negative effect in this regard as well?

As always, thanks for all your valuable ideas!

Here is another draft. The modules in the top row are candidates for what to get initially, and the rest (including the modules below the case) are potential alternatives to modules in the top row, or things that I'm simply interested in for later.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. :)

Here are some specific questions:

• FH-2 vs. Export Sleepers: Do you think I need the option to record audio through this module (given that I want to give a Ableton Live-centric workflow a go, using CV Tools/Silent Way/Volta)?
• ES-3 vs. ES-8: Is there something that ES-3 provides that the ES-8 do not?
• Elements: Will Elements need to be tuned?
• Frames: Can Frames serve as a mixer and a VCA for this small system, with some room to grow with the modules in the second row, or would it make sense to have something like Stages and Veils instead?
• Cables etc: I'm considering getting a EricaSynths 2x126HP monster case (140mm deep). Do you have any recommendations for cable lengths, quantities, types (such as stack cables), inline mults, or manufacturers?
• Output: I'm thinking that I can listen to the output of the system through my computer initially, and get an audio output as a convenience later on. Do you think that could work?
• Mordax DATA: Will I benefit from this module (in terms of exploring, learning and making things more intuitive) working with these modules?
• 4ms Spectral Multiband Resonator: What other modules would make sense to add if this module is added to the system?
• Effects: Are there any effect modules that springs to mind, that can do things that are not conveniently done through Ableton Live's effects?

Also, if anyone knows whether or not I can emulate Ears (including the envelope follower) using software, that would be interesting to know. :)

Cheers!

Hi, Lugia and Ronin1973!

Thank you - your knowledge and experience is greatly appreciated. :)

I read an indication that Rings provides additional synthesis (sympathetic strings and modulated/inharmonic strings), as well as a kind of "strum" polyphony. Rings also offers 2 separate outputs for even/odd harmonies. I'm not sure what exactly this means, or if I would miss these features going with Elements. The idea of something polyphony-like seems quite attractive to me.

Regarding audio input with an envelope follower, and external instruments, I would really like to be able to use the audio signal from a synth, a microphone, or perhaps even a guitar. I have some instruments and it would be great to be able to combine them effectively with the modules. Would Mutable Instruments Ears allow me to do this? Could this even allow me to start off without a module sound source?

I see now that my idea of using an ES interface and a DAW as a VCA is problematic. What VCA would work well with Elements or Rings? Could I somehow get by with one and not regret it, you think? Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

I will keep in mind to try to avoid getting locked into a painful solution. Oh, by the way, I'm very curious about the compromises and pre-planning that you had to do, Ronin1973.

Thanks for the information!

I have some follow-up questions:

1. Would it be possible to use Ableton or some external instrument (like a keyboard) as a sound source into Rings/Elements using CV Tools/Silent Way?
2. Would it be possible to use CV Tools/Silent Way as a VCA (by patching the CV or audio signal into the computer and back into the modular system again)?
3. Can Elements do everything that Rings can do?

Cheers!

Thanks Lugia and Ronin1973!

If I may borrow my own thread to pose a related, and perhaps naive, question...

Could a system containing of only Rings, Expert Sleepers ES-3/ES-8, and a powered case like EricaSynths Pico Case, be viable?

I'm interesting in experimenting with controlling Rings using only software (in particular, CV Tools in Ableton Live). I would like to sequence and control Rings from Ableton (through ADAT to ES-8).

I would also like to record the output of Rings into Ableton.

Could that work? :)

This is very interesting and looks absolutely brilliant! Thank you! :)

However, the system is turning out quote a bit more complex (and expensive) than I thought it would be.

So if I may throw in some additional constraints...

I think it would be useful for me to be more limited (although not too limited) to begin with, and explore fewer modules. I'm also thinking that it could be a good idea to add a Mordax DATA (or similar), so that I can see a visual representation while experimenting with the modules.

Basically, I'm curious about what could be an minimal but viable variant (interesting to work with, and at least somewhat flexible in terms of what kind of sounds (pads, basses, etc.) can be produced). Let's say we had to cut it down to only one sound source, for instance, perhaps getting rid of µRinks, SMR, Clouds and/or Stereomix.

It may be a silly idea, but could the system work with only µRinks as a sound source?

Or what could the system look like if we only built it around Jupiter Spirits?

Some other thoughts:

Is that a fan in the Erica Synths case? (I would prefer if the case I'm using is silent. Perhaps they all are?)

If the system is smaller, could a skiff case could be a good place to start?

Are there any other cases that you can recommend?

Also, I wonder if ES-8 is preferable to ES-3. That is, if it wouldn't be better for me to connect directly to Fireface UCX (which connects to the computer using USB) via an ADAT connection. I don't know if there could be a conflict with having to USB audio interfaces.

Finally, Is it possible to add envelopes to Zadar (perhaps by patching the firmware), or are we limited to the evelopes that are preprogrammed in there? I'm guessing that the many envelopes and virtually endless modulation possibilities would compensate for that, but I still think it would be pretty neat to be able to do.

Thanks again!

Thanks, Lugia!

Great suggestions about the case, power, and MG case sizes!

I'm very curious about alternative solutions for Akemie's Castle, if you find the time. :)

Trying to get a better grasp of the different functions and concepts that you described, I started thinking about a simpler system with only Rings as a sound souce. Here is an idea:

In such a system, would we prefer combining Maths and Batumi (with Poti), or just use Zandar (with Nin, acting as an envelope and a LFO)? Perhaps we need more than one envelope in order to effectively control these modules? (To what extent can Maths control multiple modules, for instance Rings and SMR, at the same time?)

Is there anything particularly important (perhaps a VCA or LFO) that we would want to add to this?

Thank you so much for your reply - it was very informative, and I learned a lot from it!

I'm considering the 6U Walnut Eurorack Case Peter from SynthRacks, which is a powered case available in the widths of 84, 104, 110 and 126 HP. I had a width of 84 HP in mind, but it seems like I will need a larger case eventually, so perhaps I should buy a larger one from the get-go?

I'm guessing something like this is pretty much what fits in the 84 HP case:

I had to take out the ES-5 expander to fit these modules. I wonder at which point I'm likely to benefit from the ES-5 expander.

Does this seem to be a viable setup or am I missing something vital?

How important is a VCA?

Here is a 104 HP version:

Here is a 110 HP version (with a bit of an awkward layout), that I think should contain everything but the VCAs:

I'm also thinking about what the "essential" minimal setup would be here. Perhaps it would make sense to approach this with either Akemie's Castle or Rings in mind, and build up the system from that.

I'm looking into building a small system for ambient pads, FM sounds, and just generally "interesting" sounds (I guess everyone wants interesting sounds :)).

I have started with this:

Some questions:

Which modulator(s) would work well with (Mutable Instruments) Rings and Akemie's Castle? Would Maths make sense, for instance?

Does 4ms Spectral Multiband Resonator work well with these two modules, and what other modules would make sense in combination with this module?

Are there any granular modules that you can recommend? Clouds, perhaps, or Morphagene?

I'm planning on sequencing (and to some extent controlling) the modules through Ableton Live (and Expert Sleepers ES-3), so I'm mainly looking for modules that don't overlap too much with what can be (conveniently) done from within Ableton Live.

Also, what would be a good output module? Would (Mutable Instruments) Veils work, for instance?

I've also been looking at Planar 2.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated! :)