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I agree with @toodee. A 2nd filter would be a much better option than another oscillator. It allows better positioning in the sound spectrum (so your track is more 'readable'), it can tweak the sound in a way that an oscillator can't, and it can even become another source of sound (if really needed...) through self-oscillation. The choice of filter, however, will depend on your musical orientation...
As @AEROCATONE explains, there are some (good and bad) controversies on a certain number of modules in your setup; you probably know that. Personally, what interests me the most will be to know how you’ll evaluate your system, your modules: technically, musically, etc. Will you please let us know in a few weeks? Thanks in advance!
Last night, I watched an old sci-fi film from the 70s: a story in which the sky is permanently in a state similar to the aurora borealis, with lights appearing and disappearing regularly... Then I went on MG and listened to and watched your video. I had the strange impression that I was prolonging this film.
I suppose Pluck and Bell play an important role here.
Anyway, it's a nice piece for this "JAMuary".
In almost all activities there are artisans and industrialists. Small structures must often distinguish themselves through quality and innovation. The larger structures work more easily in terms of volume and price. And it’s not really the same job, the same universe, the same values.
The more informed buyers or consumers are, the better. A site like ModularGrid can contribute to this, without making it a daily obsession either.
All this makes me want to read or create a good old thread about our reality which is music. Woohoo!
If you don't want people to see your rack as it is, make a copy of it, edit out the things you want to be private then make this copy Public so we can all see.
-- wishbonebrewery
+1
We can only make useful suggestions by seeing things concretely.
This is one of the advantages of ModularGrid.
Everything else is literature...
It’s a good idea to have started with Verbos modules, Mark Verbos being an expert in Buchla's modular philosophy and technology.
This is also why a ‘hippy’ modular would, in my opinion, be closer to the Buchla format than to the Eurorack. Don Buchla was part of the counterculture of the 60s’; he has worked with the Grateful Dead...
Anyway, it's really a fun and interesting idea! Could you explain some of your choices?
@Dan_ogq's remark is both interesting and unexpected. I look at my setup and, indeed, the inputs are the majority.
The winner is the Loquelic Iteritas Percido: 21 inputs vs 2 outputs! That said, the possibilities for shaping sound are immense thanks to all these inputs. And I chose this module (and this version in particular) precisely for this reason.
Conversely, I notice that my Tetrapad has 8 outputs... and no inputs.
No inputs? Nightmare! I have become the module and my fingers are the cables...
I have often dreamed of the Cwejman VC-FCS Stereo Compressor, I recently discovered the Erica Synths Drum Stereo Compressor, but I was especially ‘impressed’ by the Cosmotronic Messor...
In the meantime, I'm doing without it and using external compression software solutions: including the amazing PSP VintageWarmer2.
When you compare the features and prices, on the one hand with eurorack mixer modules, and on the other hand with external mixers, things quickly become clear... But, especially in 'live' situations, it is difficult (or sporty :) to do without a mixing solution in the modular itself.
For my part, I adopted the following solution: if I want to stay warm, comfortably snuggled up on the modular side, it is a set of modules that will allow me to mix. Mono and/or stereo submixers (Doepfer A-138s and Befaco StMix), then a final hub (Erica Synths Black Stereo Mixer V3), and finally an output module (4ms Listen IO). Some other modules, which can be useful for other tasks, come in reinforcement if necessary (DivKid Mutes, Intellijell Tetrapad and Planar, Vcas, etc.)
If things become more serious, I believe that only an external mixing via a DAW, for example, will allow to work with precision (with Eqs, volume or filter automations, compressions, etc.) In this case, a module like the Expert Sleepers ES-9 (or ES-8) will be useful.
Everyone may freely work in their own way, only the pleasure of playing, and the result (sometimes also ;) count.
I’m sorry @Jukeshoe. 95% of my posts here (and on ModWiggler) are public. But private messages were invented to allow from time to time a more personal exchange. And I will not hesitate to do it with you, if necessary.
Congratulations for this post. After several years of research and investment (almost a hundred modules here), it is not always easy to expose yourself by inviting others to a criticism was it constructive, even friendly formulated. And this, next to the question of the 36HP available... I wanted to start by commending your initiative. So, if I may, a few little things.
An observation: for 'ambient soundscapes', and a 'generative direction', I am surprised not to see, unless I am mistaken, a granular synthesis source like Morphagene or Nebulae.
The modules that appear today do not always bring great innovations, but some try to go further by pushing limits (at the risk of specializing sometimes in a more limited use). But why not if they are of a high quality? The Qu-Bit Nautilus, in my opinion, is one of them. Thus I will gladly suggest it for the musical style sought here.
I took the opportunity to look at the first suggestions that were made to you at the beginning of your ‘modular adventure’. 2021, @Lugia had propose in particular a Doepfer A-119, I think it remains a good advice.
36HP... There is also a certain pleasure in knowing that part of your closet remains empty. I keep, for my part this amount of space (with a 4ms Pod and a mini-case Doepfer). Next to a hundred modules... like you. There is an old French adage (16th century) that says ‘Garde une poire pour ta soif’. Which can be tranlated as ‘Keep a pear for your thirst’. But I believe that in English the equivalent is: 'Save for a rainy day'... (And with all the love I sincerely have for this country, not only at the musical level, we can understand the choice of this analogy :))
Ochd: lfos only (8 lfos with 8 different speeds linked by a single adjustable base speed).
Rnd Step: random only (3 potentially independent randoms, and each with 2 outputs: unipolar + bipolar).
Clep Diaz: only one choice among 3 possibilities: step, random, lfo (2 outputs: unipolar + bipolar).
For these modulations an external passive multiple can extend a functionality to several cv inputs...
Other options are possible.
Don’t forget the Disting mk4: a lot of functions including modulations and much more.
And two modules of the manufacturer 2hp (e.g. one lfo + one random) would also be worth considering.
I use various sound sources, three of which seem well suited to dark ambient/drone: Loquelic Iteritas Percido, Polygogo, Morphagene. And I agree with @lucas303’s suggestion: a matrix mixer would really be recommended for your work.
Welcome here. I absolutely agree to what is indicated by @HGsynth.
We have to admit that all these things have been written a hundred times here.
So you will forgive me if I only develop one point. Actually the starting point: the size of the case...
If you want to enter the modular world, there is a good chance that you will buy other modules in the months or years that follow. For example, you will wish to complete your setup with a specific filter, an interesting effect, or simply be seduced by the presentation of a new module in a YouTube video. Or a concept that is not familiar to you today might seem indispensable to you tomorrow, a matrix mixer for example, a logic module, a sequential switch, another type of synthesis, etc. Or a type of module that did not exist before will be born and it will correspond to your philosophy, as for example recently with the Droid system: look at the incredible success it achieves (see page ‘Top Modules’). Personally, this does not correspond at all to my modular ethics, But I know many who have suddenly embraced it with sincere (and noisy) sighs of satisfaction.
All this long blah-blah about what? No one knows what your intentions will be tomorrow. But one thing is certain, a 'medium-sized' case to start is not the size of a grand piano. And its price is only that of a good module.
Depending on your sensitivity to an exterior appearance or brand, you may be interested in:
Tiptop Audio Mantis (2 x 104 HP)
Arturia RackBrute 6U (2 x 88 HP)
Behringer Eurorack Go (2 x 140 HP)
Doepfer A-100 LC6 (2 x 84 HP)
And of course keep your Subharmonicon in its box, needless to say :)
The ES-8, as well as the ES-9, have a depth of 50mm. There is this solution: 4ms Pod34X or Pod64X (Powered): 55mm of available depth. The advantage is also that you can place it halfway between your modular and your computer.
A compressor, like WMD MSCL or Cosmotronic Messor.
A resonator, like Rings, great complement to any percussive audio source.
A low pass gate, like Optomix or LxD... There are many options up to the small (and passive) but very efficient DPLPG.
There is a new version of BIA, the Basimilus Iteritas Alia. I did not test it but the alliance of the first version with Jasmine & Olive Trees Traffic is ideal.
A logic module, like XODES LB5!
Last suggestion: I also share a dislike for ‘menu diving’ and I was slow to approach Pam’s... Today I would refuse the divorce if I may say so ;)
Fortunately rules exist to regulate transactions, including and especially on the Internet!
Whether for the Business to Consumer, or Consumer to Consumer. But again, ‘the law is a complex matter’.
For example, a particular seller can be (under French law in any case) legally qualified as a ‘merchant’ according to the regularity of his sales activity. Thus, regular acts of sale on a merchant site or even a simple connection site, can make an individual a merchant of fact (within the meaning of the Code of Commerce). Various others criteria can support this... And this is pretty good for protecting transactions.
Not knowing the context of this transaction in particular, the site where it took place, or even its amount and the profit made, and not being a specialized jurist, I will stop here my advice. After all, we are here only trying to bring some leads @lazarusgordon
PS: I have been ordering various gears for years in France, Germany, Spain, etc. No problem to report with La Poste on my side.
The law is a complex matter, and the rules vary from country to country. In France, the seller is responsible until delivery. In case of loss by the carrier, he remains liable (unless you have expressly chosen a means of transport different from that offered by the seller). It seems to be the same rule all over Europe, that is if you buy on the Internet in the European Union.
3x MIA is useful in many situations. Concerning Twin Waves, it is perhaps not the best example because it has 2 attenuators (param 1 and param 2 knobs). That said, 3x MIA will be able to mix and dose two sources of external modulations that will result in a single flow in one of the two inputs (param 1 or param 2 inputs).
It is not always relevant to advise this or that module (apart from a few utilities) because the beginner logically has a difficulty in explaining what he is looking for, and the one who advises will naturally refer to his own tastes and orientations.
Take your time. Watch videos. Download and read the manuals for more information, and understand for yourself. I did this for several months before purchasing my first modules.
Leaving a gap between the modules can be risky. A 1HP blank panel from Doepfer costs around 3€. Much cheaper than damage caused by a short circuit due to an involuntary intrusion.
The 2hp drum modules are of good quality. Richard Devine’s Current Live Setup features a 2hp Kick and a 2hp Hat:
An attenuverter will allow you to adjust (reduce or increase) the amount of modulation you wish on the tone or the decay of your 2hp Kick, for example. This is an essential tool. The most complete modules have an attenuver for each of their main cv inputs.
We often suggest a utility module like the 3x MIA: it contains an attenuverter function (among many others). You will be able to dose the modulations reducing the width of an lfo or a random, and this module can even mix several modulations together.
Even the 2hp 'Picnic Basket' (their 'Flagship Lunchbox') is presented with blank panels between modules. And they often do their public demonstrations with these spacers. https://www.twohp.com/systems/picnic-basket
So the first and best suggestion will be to buy some blank panels (1 or 2HP), really. Not very exiting but much more comfortable.
A small-format macro oscillator like Twin Waves or Beehive (a 8HP clone of Plaits) would be welcome in a small box to complete your Threshold.
Finally I’ll add an attenuverter/attenuator, and probably remove Jam Jam since you have Pam’s.
Your project is interesting. Some indications that may help you...
Among the modules to consider is the Phonogene. https://www.modulargrid.net/e/make-noise-phonogene
It is a ‘historical’ module of Make Noise based on the invention of Pierre Schaeffer (creator of the concrète music). This module is discontinued, but you can easily find it on Reverb.
Today, there is the Make Noise Morphagene (partly based on Schaeffer’s Morphophone). Also excellent are the Instrūo arbhar and Lúbadh. Other manufacturers offer many models to transform, cut and play with the samples.
For my part, I often use the Qu-bit Nebulae V2. This track, in tribute to a piece by Schaeffer and Henry, was made with Nebulae:
The BeatStep Pro is great for sequencing, but you might also need less ‘linear’ and traditional tools. I use Marbles (fantastic), but also the Stochastic Inspiration Generator and more recently the Pamela’s PRO Workout (ideal for organizing gates).
Finally, do not forget a dedicated lfo (ex. Batumi, Ochd), and of course some utilities...
Yeah, very cheap too but it looks like an old car stereo unit with faceplate taken off. urghhh
-- EuroBadger
There are so many ‘old car stereo unit with faceplate taken off’ in the Eurorack world.
Therefore it’s good to reserve a small separate case and place vintage advertising stickers on it.
It’s fun and it puts things into perspective. We used to do that with our cheap guitar cases :)
Nostalgia...
Manufactured by Instruō, 4HP, 16 outs, 5mA, and expander of one of the most popular modules. There are worse pedigrees ;)
I’m waiting for mine this week.
To use a natural or any external sound, exploring it by stretching it, modifying its pitch, filtering it, cutting it into slices... in short by manipulating it in all the most unexpected ways, then associating it with others was the innovation of ‘musique concrète’. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musique_concrète
There are many modules that allow this work: choose the 'Sampling' function in the 'Modules' section (Module Finder) and you will have a long list of modules for this. This way please :)
Then, you can still associate any other module that will fold the result, distort, create an envelope, place it in a space (with more or less reverb)... Any traditional complementary modular function.
In theory there are two sound synthesis techniques for dealing with acoustics; there is the traditionnal Sample-based synthesis and the Granular synthesis: both are well developed in the modular universe.
Everyone can work in their own way. Personally, and like many modularists, I have currently invested in granular synthesis (Qu-Bit Nebulae, Make Noise Morphagene, alongside Monsoon and Beads which are also effects, modules derived from Clouds). I completed with a more modest module (Tiptop Audio One) to include samples, considering that the computer is also a first way, upstream, powerful and fast to process any audio sources.
But again, to each his priorities, his preferences...
The recording of a radio extract on a Usb key or Sd card can then be processed by a granular synthesis or traditional sampling module, and it can be easily preserved as @wishbonebrewery indicates...
We can therefore think of separating any authentic Fm or vintage radio (or other audio sources like microphone, K7, Cd, Tv) from modular processing, it’s also more economical: in cost and HP.
The looper function allows you to manipulate the audio. This function, which is the basis of the freeze function, is integrated into many modules. But many use an external looper: this is the case of the legendary Todd Barton...
I'm going through a Tangerine Dream "Rubycon" phase again.
-- farkas
Trying to get back on great classic tracks is a good thing. Especially an album like 'Rubycon', almost 50 years old (time flies); and with your AJH Synth modules conducted by the 960, I guess... it shouldn't be unpleasant.
Personally, I'm re-exploring another planet, Altair IV, inhabited by the Krell people 2,000 centuries ago. In support, the 1956 film and a few manuscripts found by Todd Barton... :))
My first series of modules was piously positioned according to common logic.
Then, with the newcomers, we worked it out as best we could... we pushed each other, we made room ;)
For me, order is of little importance, since potentially any chain should be possible (except out > out!). This also avoids automatically reproducing the same eternal chaining.
Only common sense counts! Eg. If you're right-handed, a module like Tetrapad will be easier to handle placed to the right of your setup. And vice versa if you're left-handed.
Use long cables (three quarters of my cables are 1 meter long). This makes repositioning easier as you work.
Sequencer > square vco > filter > vca > fx1 > mixer? No...
Lfo > random > sine vco > folder > vca > fx2 > mixer? No, no...
Lfo > random > square vco > filter > folder > vca > fx2 > mixer... Et voilà!
I feel like I made some relatively informed choices with my rack but I also can't help but wonder if I'm completely discounting some essential modules that would be needed for these to work. Like maybe I don't have enough VCAs/VCOs for the ones I picked out here. Maybe I have too many redundant modules (not that redundancy is always bad but if it hurts the function then it's gotta go).
-- Cat
I think you have fully anticipated the problem. Unless I’m mistaken, Manis is the only vco here capable of providing you with a real drone source (excluding the Swiss Army Knife Disting mk4). At least one complementary vco, with a wide sound palette (like Plaits or Twin Waves, for example) would be needed. And I will add a quad vca to replace or complement the small After Later Audio DVCA. I do not see either lfo and at minimum a small sequencer (although on this point the Doepfer midi to cv indicates perhaps an intention not expressed here). Other comments or questions are possible... and I sincerely hope that others formulate them.
+1 for Jim's suggestion of Maths, but I'd hold off on getting a full size Quad VCA because the 2hp VCA is adequate until you have a larger system.
-- 33PO
And again, not to mention Optomix with its vca function on each channel...
If you decide to opt for the 60 HP Moog case solution, and without prejudging a too specific musical orientation, one could imagine this setup next to your Mother-32...
It is usually easier to advise you if we know what you expect from your instrument.
The DFAM will be a 'technically' perfect complement to your Mother-32. But as you know, it is a module mainly dedicated to percussive sounds. If you want to join more melodic paths, the Subharmonicon would be a better companion.
And if you want to explore sound with much more freedom and absolutely stick to a small format of 60HP, the possibilities of choice of modules are immense... but the best advice here, especially with a small budget, will be given if you express your desire for this or that musical trip.
There are many solutions to meet your criteria at Noise Engineering. I agree in particular with the suggestion about Loquelic Iteritas Percido. This module is a Hummer H1.
But if you really want to play with the bizarre, while remaining powerful and deep: WMD Synchrodyne, without hesitation. But here you’re dealing with an UFO.
Compression, however light, is an essential function in many genres of music including here. WMD Mscl, Erica Synths Stereo Compressor and Cosmotronic Messor seem good modular options. I personally record in Logic, I keep the live performance but I often add a slight touch of the PSP VintageWarmer2 plugin (a soft analog-style compressor/limiter) to finalize before the bounce.
In any case, the function of this type of module would deserve to be, I think, a criterion in its own right in the list of functions in the ‘Modules’ page. Even if for other kinds of music, the dynamic range of the modular synthesizer really does not need it...
@troux Does your compressor (WMD Mscl, I believe), in addition to its primary function, also add a kind of additional warmth/saturation or does it remain very transparent? Thanks in advance!
As I have already commented elsewhere, this is not only a superb work, it’s also an innovation, a first it seems to me (in any case, I know of no equivalent of such strong association between the universe of the classical orchestra and the world of modular; even less at the concert).
This association is fabulous. As these extraordinary encounters between the classical orchestra and other instrumental universes such as that of the great organs (for example we can listen again to the 3rd symphony by Camille Saint-Saëns).
Listen to this fusion between the timbre of the orchestra’s instruments and the modular synthesizer. Just one example:
After an introduction that develops till a nearly apocalyptic level and ends with two powerful orchestral punctuations (we can listen to them from 5:10), then emerges a very simple and modest note held by the oscillator of a Dixie II+ (note born from the second tutti and revealed around 5:30). This note is joined by the clarinet (at 7:45) then gradually, step by step, developed by other instruments and sections of the orchestra (*).
The modular is an orchestra, the orchestra is a modular!
(*) This passage evokes the famous note held (a B), played by the bassoon and emerging from the final chord of the first movement of Mendelssohn’s violin concerto in E minor, then introducing the second movement by evolving towards a C.
I allow myself to place here the whole video of this performance.
In addition, I encourage everyone to read this very relevant reflection of Luis about the modular synthesizer.
‘We don’t need more synthesizers: we need discipline’ https://coderapuzo.com/synthsanddiscipline/
This will echo many debates here...
(...) triple sloths is good - especially when combined (via a matrix mixer, perhaps) with other modulation sources... a quad lfo (or envelope generator) like batumi or zadar is great (especially with the expanders)...
-- JimHowell1970
To add unpredictability, disturbances, Zadar + Nin is really a good tool. In ‘loop mode’ (‘repeat parameter’ set to infinity), plus the two assignable CVs on some chosen parameters (e.g. Warp, Time), the results are amazing. Here a link to have a look at the Zadar basic envelope shapes: http://xaocdevices.com/manuals/xaoc_zadar_chart_2.0.pdf
Nice Acid Jam. (Every time I listen to this kind of music today, I go back 35 years to the time of K7s, and the ‘Second Summer of Love’ :)
TB-O and TB-EFA sound great. But I also enjoyed the percussion and the use you make of it.
Small question that has nothing to do... On which support did you put the BSP? A music stand, an articulated support?
Your setup seems quite comprehensive. One could perhaps imagine some complementary Lfo modulation source, possibly more 'disturbing' (Ochd, Diode Chaos, Triple Sloths...) or other modules. But obviously this is not really the fundamental problem.
Fluctuations in inspiration are things that commonly happen. And they are not always dependent on the musical equipment. Advice: recharge your energy within the music you love. Then resume your work from these bases. Reflect about how to reproduce some references in your own way. All the creators, whether in music or in other fields, all including the most admirable and innovative, have started from what already exists, then appropriating things their own way.
PS: and take your time to experiment... sometimes also without thinking too much! Venture, avoid only out > out :))
