One thing worth noting: Pittsburgh Modular had a stompbox Eurorack cab until a few years ago. Here's the page: https://pittsburghmodular.com/patch-box/ It's discontinued, but if you look around in the usual used gear locations, you might turn one up. While it doesn't hold a lot of modules, it would make for an excellent foot controller for a bigger system.
Purchased a Prizma v1 from @barebones - good comms, timely shipping, good packaging, module arrived as advertised and in good working order. Thanks!
Bought a Roland Demora, great communication, excellent packaging, everything really good! Thanks
Hi there,
I am a guitar player with a nick for electronic sounds. For some years now I have been thinking to use modular to process my guitar, basically using it as an incredibly powerful effect box to do all things that I difficultly can with my pedalboard: freeze, sample & resample, filter, chop, etc....
Now I am finally deciding what I need to get started into this whole thing.
I am looking on the best starting modules to put in between my guitar and amplifier:
utilities:
-input module for guitar (amplification) - ears
-output module for amplifier (attenuator) - doepfer a-138d
-power - tiptop audio uzeus
fun:
- doepfer wasp filter
- mutable clouds (I know it is discontinued, anyone has any idea on an alternative?)
- morphagene (expensive! cheaper alternatives?)
...and then I need advice on which control modules to put to control these beauties (vca's? pamela? sequencers?)
as said, I need advice on the minimal setup to start into it and have some fun.
Cheers!
Not sure why you'd use several ONEs when something like this would make a lot more sense and only cost slightly more: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/1010-music-bitbox-2-0
Granted, it occupies a bigger footprint, but you have far more simultaneous sample voices, plus a lot of capabilities that simply can't be crammed into a 4 hp module. Also, this allows full sample editing and manipulation to be done in the build and on the fly, along with SD card capabilities, interactivity with Ableton Live, etc.
Fast communication and shipping, nice packaging, all good!
Just received a Disting MK4 from @tomlaan. Nice communication, all good!
Yeh maybe i can swap the first row out for marbles along with 2-3 one players that would give me 2-3*256 sounds
Perhaps a controlled random source would work. Something that operates along the lines of the Buchla "Source of Uncertainty", such as Doepfer's A-149 modules, Mutable's Marbles, or the Frap Sapel. By using something like this, it's possible to constrain and direct the random variance into a specific "zone" of random activity. Within that zone, you'd still have varying degrees of randomness, but with the additional control functions, you get a more workable stochastic result.
Wow, thank you. I will consequently work through your message again later and identify and execute all your mentioned points.
Concerning the Model D, i know it takes up a lot of space, its just that i was hoping to create a setup that allows me to have an "everything in one" solution, that apparently led me to missing out on putting in important modules, like vcas, also i see that it has limitated patching capabilities.
I will get back to this thread with a hopefully more "useful" and less "sexymodulesyndrome"-like build, thank you again for your awesome response.
Here's a new modular-driven single from our band Wilder beats, hope you like it! Full length album coming later this year.
Bandcamp: https://wilderbeats.bandcamp.com/track/demens
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/track/2kT8RI5A1kaus9wYvs64qc?si=otH9cu7sQPq81Llaylichg
Soundcloud:
Arpeggios mostly coming from Mother32+Strymon Magneto.
Bass from Make Noise STO.
Beat mostly modular, with some additions from Ableton.
Hey lugia thanks for the reply!
You're absolutely right with the lighting Situation thats why i got myself a few led lights to brighten up my Rack.
Its hard for me to part with voices even though i could use a tiptop audio one with samples i love having access to a myriad of sounds (i am doing glitch/hitech psy stuff) but i am not convinced in the one sample player yet..... I sequence it with voltage block. maybe i should let a noise/random source do the sample select thing to get more Variation?
With Metropolis+loquelic+qpas i do my basslines together with the second loquelic Mixed.
Shapeshifter+micro sequence cover my leads and sometimes fx.
The plaits and synchrodyne fill in melodies and occasional bleeps'nbloops
Other then that i got kick,snare,hihats and percussive samples from the tiptop one. Doesnt seem too much to me
There's a lot there you could switch out...or, for that matter, eliminate altogether. And that's what's crippling this right now. For example, how many sequential devices do you need when you actually have very little in the way of logic and other clocking modifiers?
Stop and look at this build carefully, asking yourself constantly "Will I need this in 18 months?" This seems awfully specialized...and if your musical direction changes, will this build still serve your needs, or just turn into a 12u money pit?
In another post I did today, I mentioned what I call the "sexy module syndrome". This build here is that in action. Lots of wild panel art (which will be loads of fun in a dimly-lit venue! as in, no fun AT ALL), very specialized modules, and not a whole lot in evidence that is "boring". And the "boring" stuff, in the end, is what makes these function. There's not too much in the way of general-purpose stuff, either...things that you can say "yes!" about when you ask that question in the last paragraph. Yes, eight Doepfer A-110-2s all in a row would look really bland. And they seem boring in of themselves...until you start adding other basics, and then you get to really unleash those VCOs with, yep, just as much capability as several complex oscillators (depending on what else you have on hand) but more importantly, less cost than several complex oscillators.
And about all of that jazzy panel art...
Here's an experiment: turn your display brightness down to about 10-15% of normal while looking at your build above. Can you still make perfect sense of what you're looking at? No, you can't cheat by getting your eyes a couple of inches from the patchpanel on the screen, because if you do that live, it'll look really derpy. Treat this as what it is: a simulation of light levels you may have to deal with in live performance. Does this build make sense in dim light? My bet is that it won't. And yes, I know a lot of module designers pride themselves on their "edgy" designs...but then, go have a look at Grayscale's listing, where there are LOADS of plain-layout redesigns of all of that "edgy" stuff because, basically, those "edgy" graphics ARE ANNOYING. And also, turn down the lights and "let's see what happens" comes into play; are you up for memorizing every single knob function, switch function, patchpoint function, etc when the patchpanel looks like total gibberish? That's where this leads.
Yeah, I know you have a lot of this gear on-hand already. But seriously...back up for a moment and look at some prebuilds, classic synths, etc. They work because they play into what the performer needs before they know they need it. Try removing some of those "can't part with" modules, decomplicating the build. Try coming up with an arrangement of modules that reflects the signal flow you require before you plug in that first patchcord. And how much did that Piston Honda cost? The one you can't use because of the "everything else" that you're supposedly so locked in over? Hate to tell you, but you're up to your navel in that proverbial money pit already, friend. Time to figure out some strategies to get out of it!
Step 1: Take that Model D out of the cab. It has its own skiff with power...and Eurorack cabs, when you start looking at the cost per space they have, are things that should be filled with things that require being in there. As an example, let's look at this just in the math...
A Make Noise CV Bus case costs $660 at Perfect Circuit. Now, this has 208 3u spaces (I'm not counting the 1u row here, as Tony's already filled that for everyone). 660/208 = 3.17(ish). The Model D is 70 hp (if you don't add on any of several Model D expanders that're out there specifically for allowing access to the rest of the patchpoints once you case it). This means that if you put this synth (that comes with a free powered case) in your Eurorack cab, it will take a roughly $210 chunk out of that case, thereby making your Model D cost $509. Mmmmmm...nope. Bad idea all around.
Step 2: You should be able to add the middle 1u tier by editing this rack...and you want to, so that you can get a very clear idea of how signal flows in the build are going to work. Otherwise, you're missing out on one of the more useful aspects of MG.
Next...now, there's A LOT missing here. There's no VCAs outside of the HexMix, for starters; you'll need more of them, particularly for manipulating CV/mod levels instead of just audio. There's no output module to bring your levels down to line level after the HexMix. I don't see any modulation sources aside of one lonely LFO and the Peaks clone. There's no filtering in here, either. All of these are pretty crippling omissions.
Another problematic thing is the two rather sizeable drum modules taking up a 26 hp chunk of your upper row while only giving you the useful output of a kick and a hat. That's not a good use of space, especially given that there are loads of similar modules out there that take up far less room. But as someone who's been doing live electroacoustic performance work since the beginning of the 1980s, I frankly wouldn't put ANY drum machine stuff in the...well, the thing that's not a drum machine. If you want electronic percussion, then use a drum machine; the argument for doing so is rather similar to the point behind taking the Model D out of the case. If the two modules cost $478 (which they do in the USA) together, and an Arturia DrumBrute costs $449 (which then gives you many more percussion voices, onboard syncable sequencing, a dedicated VCF, etc etc)...well, the choice is pretty straightforward, I think.
Remember: you're building this in a case with two rows of 104 hp each. Given that you have very limited space, your first consideration in creating a build here on MG is to consider what does not belong in the case. Then after that, consider what must be in the case in order to have a workable instrument. My advice would be to trash this build, for starters, but not before making note of a few specific things that do work, such as having the Rene, Plaits clone, HexMix and the Clouds clone in the next iteration. Then after studying those four modules and what they work best with (and fyi, that's the original Rene...the mk.II version has the ability to integrate with the Make Noise Tempi, with the result being a far more capable sequencing environment, this being one example of what I'm getting at here), start branching out from there BUT not before doing some studies of other classic modular systems. See what the various engineers figured out some 40-50 years ago in terms of necessary capabilities, signal flow and module layout, and so on. And also keep in mind that you should not be trying to build this successfully in one shot. A good build that works for years on end is one that's actually honed-down and refined over many iterations; otherwise, you risk building a very expensive and incapable money pit instead of a musical instrument. Constantly question everything as you do this...is this the right module choice?, does this layout make things flow better?, can I fit the same function into a tighter space?...these should be firmly in your mind while working this out. And how do I connect what I plan to use outside of the cab with what's INside the cab? There's a Keystep there...now, are there things on MG that play nicely with that controller (hint: there are) and what it can output?
No, it's not easy. And part of that is because this isn't cheap. Another problem comes from what I call the "sexy module syndrome"...the idea that, hey, THAT looks cool! I want it!...that always results in people leaving necessary yet UNsexy modules out of the build (like here!). Try seeing how boring you can make the build look. Perhaps make a mockup with all one brand of modules, then start whittling away at this, making substitutions, etc. And always avoid putting anything in the cab that can be done outside of the cab...multiples, for example. Buffered mults (when needed! as in, if you have more than five VCOs or thereabouts to run off of the same CV source) belong in the case. Passive mults, however, only belong in the case when you have room to spread out, which means you'd be dealing with a rather sizable build, not one this small. This is why multiple widgets exist, and stackcables, also. Consider: put a 2 hp passive mult at each end of each 3u row in this. Now, try and do this when the system's been filled up already with "function", meaning you now have to remove a total of 8 hp of that functionality. Not a good compromise of space.
Anyway, these are the sorts of things you've got to have in mind to eventually get to a workable result. Modular synthesis is 100% NOT a "throw stuff in box, connect wires, twist knobs, win!" sort of situation. Remember: you're considering spending several thousand dollars on this. You're going to want to do it right.
Hello people of the modular world,
i have been trying to figure out a good setup for live performances, that leaves me room for direct and predictable interaction, as well as some rather explorative ways to work with it. it would be set up in the 7u makenoise case for in and outputs.
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_932671.jpg
I will use it with the beatstep pro and a keystep controller.
i would appreciate some feedback!
FJL 91
hi playing around with this in two cases atm. the upper 2 rows are like additional voices i really like and cannot seem to part with. even though i know i probably got too many (complex) osc.
while playing live i found myself struggling for switching off / muting certain sounds.... is there a space saving variant maybe with buttons like the divkid mutes?
does the malekko mute switch and other mute buttons klick? or is it more wise to use the mutes on the gates triggering sounds?
thanks in advance
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_705895.jpg
ps: i also want to cram in my piston Honda mk3 but its really hard for me to switch something out
I saw your post from last year and completely agree...should have referenced or "+1'd" your request as well.
I wouldn't remove it altogether though. I definitely get -some- use out of it...just want it to be even better.-- danishrancher
Hmm. Well I'd love for it to be fixed too!
I am just being realistic... The feature is totally broken and has been for as long as I've been visiting the site. It says I have 26 modules in common with a rack that has only 10 modules in it, and really we have only 1 module in common. It might as well just pick random racks for that matter.
The site is run by the one dude, and frankly, I'm just happy the site is on a stable server after being pwned by the Chinese spammers. I really need MG for only one thing, and it does that perfectly! :-) Thanks again!
A requested upgrade for the "similar racks" feature: limit returned racks to one per user to increase relevance and variety of the returned racks.
I did a "search similar" this morning and the return set was the same rack over and over again...all from the same person:
* RackName
* RackName (copy)
* RackName (copy) (copy)
* RackName (copy) (copy) (copy)
* and so onIf the return set were limited to one rack per user, I would be able to see (more useful) racks from other people.
Additionally/alternatively, return multiple pages of similar racks...I'd be happy enough to page through multiple results.
Thank you.
-- danishrancherFor that matter, it would be nice if the 'search similar' would only count one copy of each module. I have a OTool+ on my rack, and the most similar rack is one that has 49 more OTools, I guess we have 50 modules in common the way the script does math...
Basically the feature doesn't work at all, maybe you should just remove it altogether. That would be the easy solution.
-- cg_funk
I saw your post from last year and completely agree...should have referenced or "+1'd" your request as well.
I wouldn't remove it altogether though. I definitely get -some- use out of it...just want it to be even better.
A requested upgrade for the "similar racks" feature: limit returned racks to one per user to increase relevance and variety of the returned racks.
I did a "search similar" this morning and the return set was the same rack over and over again...all from the same person:
* RackName
* RackName (copy)
* RackName (copy) (copy)
* RackName (copy) (copy) (copy)
* and so onIf the return set were limited to one rack per user, I would be able to see (more useful) racks from other people.
Additionally/alternatively, return multiple pages of similar racks...I'd be happy enough to page through multiple results.
Thank you.
-- danishrancher
For that matter, it would be nice if the 'search similar' would only count one copy of each module. I have a OTool+ on my rack, and the most similar rack is one that has 49 more OTools, I guess we have 50 modules in common the way the script does math...
Basically the feature doesn't work at all, maybe you should just remove it altogether. That would be the easy solution.
A requested upgrade for the "similar racks" feature: limit returned racks to one per user to increase relevance and variety of the returned racks.
I did a "search similar" this morning and the return set was the same rack over and over again...all from the same person:
* RackName
* RackName (copy)
* RackName (copy) (copy)
* RackName (copy) (copy) (copy)
* and so on
If the return set were limited to one rack per user, I would be able to see (more useful) racks from other people.
Additionally/alternatively, return multiple pages of similar racks...I'd be happy enough to page through multiple results.
Thank you.
Good experience buying from @mrxndr - great price, quick dispatch, module in perfect condition. Thanks again!
Great to work with @RTFM , very friendly and fast communication and superfast shipping as well. Very honest pricing as well. thank you!
I wrote a guide on rack mounting the 0 coast and powering it from your case supply.
This is the more recent version of my draft, i would be very thankful for some feedback,
FJL
P.S.: It would be used with the Makenoise 7U Case, also i have lots of guitar effect pedals which i will go in through the rosie.
Hello people,
the last days i have been trying to figure out a setup that i can do arpeggios/sequences, leads via the keystep, ambient/drone/pad sounds, and a really basic drum at the same moment with.
I somehow have the feeling, that this setup is really unbalanced and might not work. Also i am not sure whether or not the clock (tempi) can even trigger the pico drums module.
Also i feel like i am missing several things:
envelope generators, modulation sources, and utilities, while at the same time, i am overdoing it with the sound generative part of the setup. Nonetheless i love the moogish sound of the model d and wouldnt want to miss it for live performances due to its easily and fast accesible characteristics. On the other hand i love working with wavetables and see also the modulation potential of the 6 lfos in the SWN.
Any recommendations?
I would be very happy to get some feedback from you,
cheers,
FJL
We've made a couple new demonstration songs using our HG-16 Black synth.
Check out our Soundcloud page here if you're so inclined :)
-Audiospektri Finland
Thank you Lugia for taking the time to comment! I probably wasn't clear, but I do plan on getting a second 104hp skiff, that's why my grid shows 2 rows. I agree with you on economy of space, but I'm not quite as limited as it appears.
Regarding the VCO, my train of thought was that the DFAM has two and the Mother32 has one with a couple other options. I think the Dixie ii+ is pretty solid, would value your opinion on this choice. Additional voices will be something I'm definitely adding as I fill out the second skiff. I'm totally with you on the QCD expander, something I am keeping in mind. I love rhythm so expanding clocking possibilities is attractive to me. Also with you on the EG. I really wanted to work the Jove into my first row, but will be there for sure in the second phase. I really like your point about a function generator, did a little digging on that already and liked what I was learning. I'm going to explore that more and see what I might add. I really wanted an excuse to add a Doepfer module, this may be the perfect avenue.
Thanks a ton!
First of all, a second VCO would probably be useful. One alone can sound a bit thin, but put two together and detune one slightly, and the sound gets real huge, real fast.
Consider replacing things that are large with the same things, but smaller. Such as: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/g-storm-electro-jp6-vcf or https://www.modulargrid.net/e/codex-modulex-%C2%B5motion . Keep in mind that in a restricted space such as this, you need to cram function in as best as you can, and the more functionality your build can have, the better. For instance, by doing those two replacements above, you then have room for the QCD's expander module, which really ups your clock modulation capabilities.
And speaking of clocking, given that you're dealing with two prebuilts that contain sequencing capabilities, you might want to look at modules that let you screw around with that aspect to a greater degree. In this case, I'm talking about Boolean logic, devices such as comparators and derivators, and gate/trigger delays. One example of this sort of function would be to use a comparator to fire off a gate when the Wogglebug's output crosses a certain voltage threshold, then feed that + a clock into an AND gate. That gate will then output a gate only when the comparator's and the clock's gates are both on; this is the sort of thing that can allow you to create a load of complex cross-rhythms between all of the parts of your patch setup...and potentially beyond, if you have other synths that can use those gate pulses.
One other thing that's lacking here is extra envelopes. Sure, the Maths can do those, but that's sort of like buying a Maserati then only using it to drive to the grocery store. Consider some sort of complex AR module, like Doepfer's A-143-1 or Sputnik's Quad Function & Trigger Source; with those, you can use the module as a bank of EGs, a complex function generator, or (in the case of the Doepfer) both at once. And this also dovetails with the clocking strategy above.
As far as integration with Ableton, another option is the FH2. Basically it's MIDI to CV. It's less expensive than the ES8. But has no option to record audio. I would really investigate both of the modules and see which is the better fit for your workflow.
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_906257.jpg?1559482639
Some minor updates that for some reason were not captured in the first image. I have that 10ph hole that I would like to fill with something that would help round out my setup and maybe I don't realize I could use. Looking for suggestions. Thanks!
I cant wait for these modules to hit the market! These are fantastic modules for the price, dual vcf, vca, all the stuff you need but dont want to break the bank for. I dont think other eurorack manufactures havr to fear from this, its a great gatrway into the euro rabbithole. I really hope this will be a reality soon, i will be on the preorder list in no time, this is a no brainer really, a full m100 system for 1200€ ? Uli is a hero!
Please post pics or virtual love to see how they look this one is all about looking cool cause you like it and having a sound that comes from the designers preferences and might be f'd up kinda too. If you can comment on what makes it flavored different that would be very helpful indeed. I/O modules do not have to be from the same company.
This is what I must have from Knobcon in 2019 and the .VCO with that crazy digital drift engine sounds disturbing.
I have had a Mother 32 and DFAM for a few months now and am beginning to build a rack(s) that would compliment them both as much as possible. I've already gotten a Makenoise 104hp skiff and have picked up Maths and 4MS Qcd. I definitely plan to get most everything in the top row, the second row are being considered. Based on what I have currently projected to go in my rack(s), where am I falling short? Please comment, I appreciate it!
This:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/purrtronics-purrvrrb
It's the spring reverb that has no spring. The Purrvrrb is a digital emulation of a mono-in, stereo-out spring, but without the actual spring itself it's not subject to the issues that can happen (ie: feedback, noises from movement or impact, etc) to a true spring reverb. At $130, the price is great, plus the architecture of the module allows you to also use it to "stereoize" a mono signal. Also, this has a regeneration control, which allows the module to feed back on itself...which can be quite interesting depending on what you're feeding into it as well.
Lugia: absolutely. As I've said above for any of the more basic utility style modules (essentially all the 2hp ones) I'll just pick up whatever I can find for cheap (Lardik & Bastl are great options in this regard). As to where I'll get the space (beyond the 10hp free as is) I'll likely re-sell my least liked favourite few modules. As I don't know what those will be yet I find it more useful to slightly over-spec, but that's just a personal preference. As a minor note I've found cost per utility to be a much more useful metric then $ per hp, as a 4xVCA in 6hp for $300 is more economical then a 2xVCA in 6hp for $200.
Ronin: I've got quite a few issues with your arguments, but thanks for the feedback anyways!
1) The A-100p9 is 10cm deep. There isn't a single module here that cracks 5. This means it's totally fine to have a rats nest of a few flying bus boards and a second smaller power supply, so your issues with depth, enough headers, and power aren't really problems for me.
2) I might be misinterpreting this but "planing for what I want" and disregarding more generally versatile modules is a great way to end up with an $7000 toy, incapable of anything more then some ambient tingles and maybe thoughtless techno. I'm looking, first and foremost, to make a fairly compact and complete tool I can use to produce music, without loosing the instant access to exploration and strange sonic territory modular brings.
Thank you both for your feedback!
There might be a way to add new waveforms to the Zadar, but the amount of "primitives" you have to work with (260) plus all of the complex transformation capabilities over those means that you probably won't ever have to do that. As for the ES-8 conflict issue, it shouldn't be a problem given that most DAWs these days allow you to specify which channels are being fed by/feeding which signals. You can probably set up a template that gives the Fireface and ES-8 clear directions as to who does what, and then use that as your main work template preference. I'd suggest going to Expert Sleepers' website (https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/) and looking over the Silent Way documentation as it relates to the ES-8 and using that with another USB audio interface. The other convenient thing, though, is that if you want to play live with only the modular, all you'd need is the DAW with Silent Way to handle your basic CV/gate functions with no need to pull the ADAT Lightpipes. And also, notice that the ES-8 has Lightpipe connections, so if there was a conflict, you could still fall back on those. But even moreso, the ES-8 has four inputs which the ES-3 doesn't have, allowing your modular to send control signals (such as clocking, triggers, etc) back into the DAW along with the capability of recording the modular's audio direct-to-digital.
No, the Erica cab doesn't have a fan. But what it does have is that amazing 140mm case depth plus excellent power specs, and the ability (if eventually needed) to add Erica's tube heater P/S addon for later tube modules, if you find some of those interesting. The Erica case is also vented, which helps to keep heat buildup issues (such as tuning drift) to a minimum.
Yep, modular is expensive. Nothing much you can do about that if certain functionalities that require specific modules are required. But while the build I put up looks complicated, ultimately, it's not. Everything's very straightforward as far as panel markings and controls, plus you have the ability to automate (via the ES-8) many of the Zadar functions, Akemie's algorithm selection, your mix levels, etc with the DAW/Silent Way able to track this via musical cues from the modular itself...yet there's still lots to tweak manually as well.
If the idea of cramming functionality into a given space is key here, I'd suggest looking into some manufacturers who specialize in the 3-5 hp range. Ronin makes a very good point that if you go too small (ie: basing everything on 2hp's modules) you'll wind up with a patch panel that's a total nightmare to navigate. Companies such as Ladik and Bastl, however, also do small well...but there's more "real estate" to work with with those, and you'll also wind up with a few more functions than the basic 2hp ones provide.
There is, however, another less-obvious issue here. Let's do some math...
Ladik does a number of different ADSR envelope generators, all with additional functions that allow them to specialize in different functions that go a bit beyond normal ADSR EGs. Each of these are 4 hp (except their fully-CVable ADSR, which is 8 hp) and each costs around $75 (the 8 hp one is $80). 2hp, OTOH, has only one basic ADSR, which is 2 hp (of course) at $89. On the surface, it doesn't seem like there's much difference, money-wise. BUT...if you start adding up how much it costs each module to occupy its space in terms of $ per hp, it becomes obvious that the smaller modules are actually more costly in terms of space they occupy. If a Ladik C-212 (ADSR with extra inverse output) fits in 4 hp and costs $75, this comes to $18.75 per hp filled. But then, doing the same test with a 2hp ADSR, you get $44.50 per hp.
That cost per hp figure is actually a valid measure of how economical your build eventually comes out to be. Let's say you have a single row at 84 hp to fill. With a $/hp of $1575, a row of Ladik ADSRs (if you were to do such a thing) is ultimately much more cost-efficient than that same row in 2hp ADSRs ($3738). But then...let's say you did a whole row of Ladik's CVable ADSRs. At $80 per module, each hp then costs $10, giving you a cost per that theoretical row of $840.
And this issue is in addition to the point that your build above is 3 x 84 hp. So, going tiny might be great if you're trying to do a very portable modular...but if you're going to build something bigger, not only would you have a difficult patchpanel to use overall, the result would be far more costly and inefficient, cost-wise. Not to ding on 2hp, mind you, but while their stuff is awesome for the small portable crowd, in a (relatively) large build 2hp's modules are better suited to fill gaps with functionality instead of throwing that away by putting in a blank panel. So, basically, if you have the space, use the space.
This is very interesting and looks absolutely brilliant! Thank you! :)
However, the system is turning out quote a bit more complex (and expensive) than I thought it would be.
So if I may throw in some additional constraints...
I think it would be useful for me to be more limited (although not too limited) to begin with, and explore fewer modules. I'm also thinking that it could be a good idea to add a Mordax DATA (or similar), so that I can see a visual representation while experimenting with the modules.
Basically, I'm curious about what could be an minimal but viable variant (interesting to work with, and at least somewhat flexible in terms of what kind of sounds (pads, basses, etc.) can be produced). Let's say we had to cut it down to only one sound source, for instance, perhaps getting rid of µRinks, SMR, Clouds and/or Stereomix.
It may be a silly idea, but could the system work with only µRinks as a sound source?
Or what could the system look like if we only built it around Jupiter Spirits?
Some other thoughts:
Is that a fan in the Erica Synths case? (I would prefer if the case I'm using is silent. Perhaps they all are?)
If the system is smaller, could a skiff case could be a good place to start?
Are there any other cases that you can recommend?
Also, I wonder if ES-8 is preferable to ES-3. That is, if it wouldn't be better for me to connect directly to Fireface UCX (which connects to the computer using USB) via an ADAT connection. I don't know if there could be a conflict with having to USB audio interfaces.
Finally, Is it possible to add envelopes to Zadar (perhaps by patching the firmware), or are we limited to the evelopes that are preprogrammed in there? I'm guessing that the many envelopes and virtually endless modulation possibilities would compensate for that, but I still think it would be pretty neat to be able to do.
Thanks again!
I will take a closer look at the Squarp... it seems really compact - at least more than 101 and 102 together. And there would be a little cash left to fill up the missing M32 ;) Already did that with the Maths at the moment.
Thanks once more for your help and have a nice weekend!
With the DLD, just leave it as-is with 4ms's stock panel. It's not difficult to read, so I don't think the expense/hassle of repaneling it makes sense. It's also a pretty control-dense module, so doing the work to get all of the controls, jacks, lights, etc lined up and resecured just seems like a major hassle.
The uClouds is simply a tiny version of the same thing as the Supercell. The Supercell adds more function controls, but at the core both are still the same open-source firmware. Same thing goes for the other smaller MI clones.
As for the sequencer...the ER-102 Sequencer Controller is definitely a must with the ER-101, given that it allows for memory-based control over the ER-101. The 102 has the SD card slot for memories, controls for loop-point changes and grouping loops, opens up new modulation possibilities, and can also do CV recording of things such as joystick, knob, etc gestures. Just as a composing "scratch pad" for grabbing clips for later use, the ER-102 is worth adding; in performance settings, it's damn near indispensable. Of course, there are other complex sequencers out there, though...maybe have a look at Hermod's Squarp, which is sort of a version of their Pyramid sequencer that's been retooled for Eurorack purposes. Something like that would also open up more space, too.
Actually, this is what I came up with earlier today. Would've posted it sooner, but I've been dealing with equipment shipping nonsense:
First up, the layout here makes a lot more sense, locating oscillators in one place, modulation in another, modifiers in a third, etc.
I've added VCA mixing control over the Jupiter Spirits' VCO outs via a pair of Doepfer A-135-2s. The Maths was also replaced by Doepfer's version of the Serge/Ken Stone VCS module, which freed up 4 more hp while still providing much of the same functionality. There's also a very complex random/noise module down by the Expert Sleepers modules; random sources were missing previously, and to get certain organic "irregularities" in pads, a tiny bit of random drift in conjunction with the DPLR's delayed output will do wonders...in addition to all of the other things that Ultra-Random Analog can do. As for the Expert Sleepers interface, I changed that out to an ES-8 with an ES-5 CV expander...this now gives you USB in addition to ADAT Lightpipe, plus four return channels to your DAW for timing, etc signals so that the modular can control DAW functions when needed (in conjunction with Silent Way or Volta, of course). The Doepfer VCAs are mainly for audio level control, so a third VCA/mixer for linear response for CVs is in the lower row. Next to that, you'll notice a Mutable Stages, which can do multiple sorts of modulation duties, and a TriATT, giving you attenuation, CV offsets, and inversion, plus mixing over three inputs.
Rings got shrunk down via a Codex Modulex uRinks...same module, better price and footprint. Optomix remains for LPG and audio summing use, allowing you to mix down to one audio channel with LPGs or to create a stereo result with the same. Dual Zadar + Nins cover much of the Akemie's control, plus a Batumi + Poti are there for CVable LFOs. And while this seems short on conventional envelope generators, the fact is that you can use Silent Way/Volta via the ES-8/5 to send conventional envelopes from your DAW, allowing for more exotic modulation sources here in the cab. As for the little black 1 hp sliver on the left side, that's a Konstant Labs PWR Checker...allows you to see your power situation at a glance, which can be rather useful for a number of diagnostic things.
So...does this version make more sense?
Thanks, Lugia!
Great suggestions about the case, power, and MG case sizes!
I'm very curious about alternative solutions for Akemie's Castle, if you find the time. :)
Trying to get a better grasp of the different functions and concepts that you described, I started thinking about a simpler system with only Rings as a sound souce. Here is an idea:
In such a system, would we prefer combining Maths and Batumi (with Poti), or just use Zandar (with Nin, acting as an envelope and a LFO)? Perhaps we need more than one envelope in order to effectively control these modules? (To what extent can Maths control multiple modules, for instance Rings and SMR, at the same time?)
Is there anything particularly important (perhaps a VCA or LFO) that we would want to add to this?
You've made some changes to the rack above. But those changes aren't reflected in this thread.
If you're using the modules as place-holders... umm... okay.
But there are some issues in your approach. The first thing is power and HP. The more modules that you cram into a smaller space, the more you'll be dealing with issues like heat, overtaxing your power supply (supplies), and simply running out of headers to plug everything into.
If your end goal is to create an advanced system, I would first concentrate on finding a much large case or multiple cases.
The 2HP modules tend to run deep because they are only 2HP... you'll end up compromising on features since there's only so much real estate in two rack spaces. Again, those micro-pots are going to be an issue even if your fingers are child-like in size.
Populate your rack with units that you'd actually want. It's a bit like designing a parking lot to only work with sub-compact cars then expecting a full sized vehicle to be able to comfortably park in there. My opinion is that you're setting yourself up for an expensive lesson in Eurorack if you pursue your ambitions down this path.
Hi Lugia
First of all thank you so much for taking your time and the detailed answer! It helps me a lot and I really appreciate it.
I struggled with the descision to put the M32 inside, too... I just thought I could easily remove it when the case is full but maybe it is better to leave it outside and invest in some longer cables instead :)
I checked out the clones of Rings and Plaits - looks good. Do you think the sound quality is comparable? The uClouds sounds great! Can you use this as a simple reverb, too? Because my intention was to have a reverb for the M32 and in the description I could not find something about this other than for example the Microcell Granular Processor.... also not too big.
Regarding the sequencer I would invest in the additional ER 103 if necessary. As an alternative I could use the Octatrack but I really like the idea of having everything in one case better. Taking the amount of space into consideration - would you say this is a good solution?
I didn‘t quite understand what you said about the Dual Looping Delay - would you keep it or take something smaller (I chose it because of the additional looping possibility and how it sounded in some of the videos).
Once agin thank you very much for your advice!
Always start on MG with a case that seems too large. You can always pare things back down on here before committing money to hardware.
VCAs look boring, yes. But they're essential. They're what you MUST USE to create changes in level for both audio and CV/modulation, they can be used as ring modulators (of a sort), they can allow automation of panning, mixing, etc. Lots of people try and get away with one or two...and regret it later on.
That's an expensive case you're looking at, btw; if I configure it with power at 126 hp x 2, I get a cost of UKP 680 with VAT. Then there's this: https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/enclosures/studio/2x126hp-monster-case-140mm-deep/ which has a much beefier power supply (2.5 A on each 12V rail), better depth (140 mm max!), real busboards, etc. OK, so it's not curvy...but remember: what you can do sonically is the important factor here. Think practicality.
As for the design...hm...let me think about that. The biggest problem is basing this around the Akemie's, because it's such a space hog, but there'll be other ways of making this work...
Lots of problems here...first up, don't consider putting the M32 in the Intellijel cab. The space in that is expensive, and the Moog already has a case. Save your Eurorack hp for things that 100% require it. Next, the tile row; that USB tile is "standard" and Intellijel uses a different spacing for their tiles, so that won't fit in there. Also, the other Line Out tile isn't necessary, since the stereo I/O tile works with the 7U case's 1/4" connections. See here: https://intellijel.com/shop/cases/104hp-84hp-7u-performance-case/ for reference. Also, with the stereo line inputs, the Ears is redundant...you could just make do with an envelope follower such as Plankton's ENVF to extract envelope CVs. That also saves 2 hp. Plus, check your module depths... Intellijel lists a maximum (over the power supply) of 53mm, but the real fact is that you'll need space (even with the Intellijel supply having loads of headers everywhere) for your power connections as well as airflow. Leave space in the case for these.
That ER-101 won't be any fun at all without the companion module, the ER-102 Sequencer Controller. The Plaits and Rings both have third-party builds that take up less space. In a small build like this, it's important to reduce size as best as possible. Also, leaving the M32 where it belongs will help with this. And don't go with replacement panels at the start of all of this; leave the Dual Looping Delay as-is to help avoid potential hassles that might arise from a panel swap.
Speaking of saving space...is the Supercell necessary? It's a very large module at 34 hp, and if you want the granularization of the Clouds, you should also look at a reduced-size version of that. For that, see Tall Dog's uClouds; they also do a uRings, but Codex Modulex does that and the Plaits in 8 hp each for less money.
Now, as for what's not there that should be...VCAs, LFOs, mixers are all pretty much absent here, and are all pretty necessary. Yet another reason why that M32 belongs where it should be...you will need that 60 hp for things that require it. This build also seems to have a case of the "Big Sexy Module" problem; if you build this as pictured, you're going to be fairly disappointed due to the fact that Big Sexy Modules require quite a few boring, utilitarian modules in order to get them to really shine at what they do. I also see very little in the way of envelope generators, save for the Stages, and EGs are important to make some of these (such as the Morgasmatron) do what they're capable of.
Don't look at a bunch of YT videos as your prime info source, btw...while some are good, a lot of them are rubbish as well, and there's no real rating system to cull out the ones where users don't know what they're doing. Simply because someone can post a video doesn't mean they're an expert (although I can think of a few examples where the posters might think they are). Instead of studying these, hit places online that allow you to study classic synths with classic architecture, synths that (in some cases) have been around for nearly 50 years that are still coveted devices make for much better templates than some random musings on YouTube. Instruments like the ARP 2600 (one of the best teaching synths, btw), EML 101 and 200, Buchla 100 series, the Minimoog, etc provide much better models to extrapolate on. Also, unless you have some galloping terminal illness, it's not a good idea to rush the process of learning what to do and then doing something immediately. TAKE TIME to examine options, study, create multiple iterations of builds, etc...otherwise, you'll wind up with something expensive and unsatisfactory. No one gets their first build on MG right. Not even people who've been doing this for decades.
Ultimately, my suggestion would be to delete this and then start again. But before doing so, take some time to look at what you're doing musically and then start building based on the strong points you see in your current gear as well as those you encounter while browsing through MG. You'll find that what you end up with after proceeding carefully will be quite different from what you have here, but at the same time it'll be several thousand dollars well-spent on an instrument that gives you many years of discovery and use.
