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Dear All,

I had an interesting weekend with a good friend of mine, testing and playing around with my new Eurorack system and we had a lot of fun, and I learned a lot from this weekend's session. For me as a beginner that was a very good session and tons of "lessons learnt" for me.

While patching around on my system, I was quite happy with most of it, though it became quite clear that I had lack of a few VCO modules (and a few effect modules might be needed too). Thus... indeed I am looking to plan a few extra VCOs in my setup.

Important for me is that the VCO module isn't too small. I have now a Doepfer A-110-1 (standard VCO) and a Doepfer A-110-4 QZVCO, both great modules, especially the A-110-4 allows you to get some nice and funny effects, and I realise that a VCO module shouldn't get smaller than the A-110-4, while patching I realised the A-110-4 is small enough (almost too small with its 8 HP) when you have it plugged with cables and trying to reach the knobs ;-) So minimum width for a VCO module is for me 8 HP or larger. Of course, if there is a fantastic VCO with 6 HP I still might consider it but I don't want to save space here just for the sake of saving space and having troubles during patching and when using the knobs.

Preferable I like to have an analogue module but if it's digital and one doesn't have to go through menus or many button clicks then I am fine with that too. Important here for me is that it's easy accessible and self-explanatory.

I had a look in my own list I made in Excel and set the filter to VCOs, 131 VCO modules I got listed and I am not going to ask for all 131 modules if they are good or not, just one particular module I would like to have your opinion about: how is the Make Noise STO? Is that a good and useful VCO? I had already tested it, it was not too bad, but I am not sure about it. Okay a second module: how about the Erica Synths Black VCO version 2?

Budget-wise, always difficult of course, it shouldn’t get as expensive as Endorphin or ACL but everything good below that, I could consider it.

If there is anyone who like to share some experience with some of his/hers VCO modules, which ones are good (and comfortable) to use, preferable with FM, then please don't feel shy and let me know about it ;-)

Thank you very much in advance and kind regards,

Garfield Modular.

Hi Lugia,

Interesting that Hydrasynth, especially those CV/gate jacks on top, though a bit big one for the space I have left (close to zero I am afraid). Let's see once it gets released if it can convince me :-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Yes, it makes sense to move the P/S to the bottom, good idea. Thanks Lugia!

Just to note: as an owner of this module, it doesn't entirely mute but rather reduces the volume of the signal. If the signal is loud you will still hear the input signal, albeit at a reduced volume.

Hey,

I already own the plonk. All the rest I need to buy.
I'm thinking of putting al this in the Intellijel Pallet 62, hence the 1u units. I don't want the rack to be big (to save space and money).

I'm not to sure where I want to go with all this, but the main thing is that it needs to complement my current music production setup as a semi-controlled sound source (rhytmic/percussive/melodic). I love the sounds from the plonk and the rings, so I'd like to keep those. I'm thinking of using the pamela for controlling the sound sources (as well as the midi from my daw).

I'm unexperienced with modular so I'm probably overlooking a bunch of essential stuff.

I bought a Euclidean Circels from @tothof - everything flawless. Good seller!

Technically, it's something you shouldn't worry about...until you have to worry about it when you start getting noise/crud, so it's probably best to deal with it now. My suggestion, however, would be to move the P/S next to the Pam's; since that outputs clocking/trigger signals, P/S garbage won't be problematic for it, and the Arturia P/S should be just as happy on the bottom row as the top. In fact, the cable-draping for the P/S's line from the external "wart" will work even better down there, minimizing its proximity to the rig altogether.

Just a follow up to keep this rack up to date,

So far I’ve bought the 6U rack, one MI Plaits and the Intellijel’s Quad VCA. It seems like I’ve taken Ronin1973’s advice as a mantra - ‘Once you feel you've mastered these modules, you'll be in good shape to decide what's next’ - and I’m allowing myself plenty of time to learn how everything works before deciding what’s next.

Right now I feel I’m short on modulation sources and my next purchases will probably be the Zadar or the Batumi, and one filter too, as I’d like to use different filters for the Minibrute’s VCO and the Plaits.

Regarding the filters, I reconsidered the Polaris and I’ll probably get one of the G-Storm filters instead. I’ve been listening a lot to the System80’s Jove recently and it’s totally rad, the G-Storm’s JP6-VCF is only 8hp and it should sound pretty similar as both are based on the Jupiter 6 if I’m not wrong. Also the JP6 includes a small mixer which will be very useful in this small system.

Although I’d rather avoid using the computer at all, I find it useful to record some sessions to track my progress and see what sounds good and what doesn’t. Once I’ve got it on the DAW I can’t refrain myself from adding some effects, and I like to use a lot of them! So I though it would be a good idea to add a Clouds clone in the rack too. The Monsoon looks pretty cool and would fit perfectly in the rack.

I’ve also seen the Levit8 recommended in a different thread, and I think it’s something I may need at some point, I could use it as a mixer but also as an attenuator. I’m already short on attenuators as I’m currently using the ones in the Minibrute, and as I add more sound sources I’m probably going to need some kind of mixer, so the Levit8 seems like good choice for this rack too.

Anyway, I’ll probably keep updating the rack as I’m getting new modules and learning more about modular synths.

On the other hand, I’ve been reading it’s not a great idea to have the sound sources besides the power supply, should I move the Plaits to the bottom row instead or is this something I shouldn’t worry about?

Pretty much the same as On the Reg, but I was missing some of the tones coming from Rings. Taking out Ears and swapping Plaits for a BeeHive I can squeeze in a nanoRings, which'll do very nicely.

On a side note: the Triplatt is a really nice bit of kit.

EDITED Sep 7th 2019, 11:38

That looks quite a thing, cheers :)

Zadar for custom envelopes. The chaining features may help take care of the length criterion, depending on how long you need.

Not a bad choice if you're short on space. However, have a look at Erogenous Tones' LEVIT8, which offers eight attenuators, with four invertable, plus DC offset, 2x gain, and it can also be configured as a 8-1 or dual 4-1 mixers, all in 10 hp. Super-flexible, very capable of being a central attenuator control and/or mixer for several paths at the same time. Something like that, where you have a lot of the same functionality in a single module, also helps to "future-proof" things a bit since it's enough of a module that expanding the build wouldn't pose as much of a problem for it as it might for the Cascade.

Pro-1's going to be a while, according to my contact at Sweetwater. They know it's in "pre-production", but aside of that Uli's not supplied a release date or even a final MSRP. It could drop next month...or next year. Who knows?

Meanwhile....ahhhh...HYDRASYNTH. Why wait for Uli to reissue the past when the future is on pre-order and set for November delivery? ;-) Future apparently seems to built like a brick s**thouse, too...same sort of steel + heavy aluminum endcheek construction that my JP-6 has. And yes, you gotcher CV/gate jacks right there on the front panel, so it likes modular just fine. You can even input modulation signals via two dedicated mod-ins (which now makes me wonder what happens if you unleash a Maths on this thing).

EDITED Sep 7th 2019, 01:07

Hi,

Any news from XAOC about a release date ?

Cheers,

Thanks for all that... Both!!
So maybe something like this https://www.thonk.co.uk/shop/cascade/ ?

Hey Ronin1973,

Thanks a lot for sharing that link, interesting news. Let's hope with that move that Behringer indeed will move to more of "their own stuff" (i.e. Hiroaki Nishijima's stuff), to me that looks like a positive step forwards.

I can't wait for the K-2 to be at my dealer to have it tested there; will check tomorrow if they have already a demo unit. I am still waiting for the Pro-1 too :-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

I made an album of music using only my Modular - wire heaven :)

Here it is - https://thegalacticsuburbs.bandcamp.com/album/improvisations-modular

Both.

A VCA will work well as long as it has a manual bias knob. Using a VCA also means you can modulate the volume later if you choose. An ever so subtle amount of modulation can really bring some movement to a patch.

A simple attenuator can be very inexpensive and passive (requires no power). Koma makes patch cables with passive attenuators built-in. This may be a good solution if you don't want to commit rack-space to a passive attenuator.

Next up... units that offer attenuation and attenuverting. Sometimes you may want to attenuate a signal and even invert the phase of it. The Intellijel Quadratt is a nice set of four attenuverters that can offer some flexible control, mixing, and even static CV output (if nothing is plugged into the input).

Befaco makes a dual attenuverter that also features an offset control. A good example would be taking an LFO that goes from -2V to 2V and shifting it to 0V to 4V... then inverting and attenuating it to -2V to 0V.

These kind of boring modules can really make all the difference in your patches so I'd research your options and needs.

EDITED Sep 5th 2019, 20:44

If you have an Intellijel case with a 1U row, they make a USB outlet that retails for around $15US.

USB gooseneck reading lights should work well.

y advice to Behringer is to come more with their real own stuff and not yet another copy of yet another retro product.

So how's your opinion about Behringer's Eurorack plans? I guess not too good either? ;-)

Anyway, I guess time will teach us if Behringer's approach (from a commercial point of view) is a good one, somehow I am afraid it is...

Kind regards,

Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

They are definitely swinging in that direction. They just hired at least one of Korg's Japanese engineers with the thought of working on new products (synths and samplers) at Music Tribe Japan. One of the original developers of the MS-20 according to the article. Funny enough they just came out with the K-2 aka the Borg MS-20.
http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2019/08/31/behringer-hires-korg-synth-guru-to-lead-move-into-original-flagship-designs/

Rearrange! I have the modular crap going out into the EHX Frequency Analyzer, then into the Black Hole Symmetry, then into the Canyon, then into the Oceans Eleven. It's a total reversal, except for the FreqAnal still being first in the chain. Breaking rules too with an echo/reverb into a delay, into another reverb! FUN and DANGER!

I'll drop the B word.

The Behringer Neutron is a good starter synth with lots of flexibility.

If you can find one of the first 2000 units, the K2 looks pretty tasty as an MS-20 clone. Lots of patching possibilities in Eurorack.

If you're in Europe you may find it a lot easier to find. Then there's always the Model D mini-moog clone. THREE oscillators but limited on Eurorack patching.

The great thing with all of these choices is that they are far below your budget maximum.

Hi Holografik,

Interesting indeed, will wait for the Pro-1 first and then consider this, thank you.

Kind regards, Garfield Modular.

hi those are not full panel , just printed synthetic papers but there is some cool designs :https://www.heinakroon.net

Bought a mint Clouds from @Anubian and am very satisfied, both by the product and the service !

I made a monophonic melody voice patch based on the Cš-L, controlled by the MicroFreak, for a track we're working on and I really liked just noodling around with it so we recorded me doing just that for a couple of minutes. Has a note of Swedish folk music here and there.

Patch notes:

The Arturia MicroFreak sends 1v/o to the Instruō Cš-L second oscillator input. The first oscillator is hard synced to the bottom oscillator and the touch output from the MIcroFreak goes to the first oscillators pitch input which gives me the opportunity to create nice, slightly harsh sync pitch sounds based how much skin I put on the touch plates. One Mutable Instruments Stages channel is set to LFO mode and controls the amount of FM that is applied to the two oscillators (linear FM on the first oscillator and exponential on the second). A medium paced triangle LFO from the Takaab 3XLFO is sent to the first oscillator's FM input.

The Cš-L sends the ringmod output and the second oscillator square wave to the Doepfer A-135-2 VCA where they are mixed. The gate output from the MicroFreak is sent to Stages that has been setup like a classic ADSR. The Stages ADSR is sent to the two A-135-2 channels.

The mixed output from the A-135-2 is sent to Xaoc Devices Belgrad that is set to the lowpass + bandpass mode. The cutoff is set just shy of 12 o'clock and the resonance just past. The level is set to maximum and Tito is set to SM which gives the resonance a textured sound. A medium paced triangle LFO from 3xLFO is sent to the FM input and two slow triangle LFOs are sent to Balance and Span.

Finally the sound is sent to Metasonix R-56 that has a rather low input and rather mild wet setting. It mainly adds a cozy spring reverb touch but when the sound goes up in volume it also adds a bit of distortion on the top.

Yep...the big thrust of the West Coast and related designs is that they're more "texture" instruments. To get something "giggable" in a band sense, you'll probably want to stay in a lane that goes more in the subtractive area...straight-up VCO-VCF-VCA + modulators. Not that textural programming doesn't have a place in that sort of thing; David Bowie's "Heroes" is a great example of where washes of non-melody/non-harmony can work in a more "conventional" situation.

VCOs...really, you want two per voice. I know that you can get away with a single VCO, and many synths do just that. However, to get a really BIG sound, you can't beat having two VCOs, with one ever-so-slightly detuned.

Keystep: got. So the patchable in question should optimally have a MIDI-CV capability in addition to the normal CV/gate patching methods. This simplifies control, keeps the patchcord jungle a tad more manageable.

Filter: decent LP VCF or similar. Need EGs, need LFOs, but nothing too out of control.

So basically, something like an ARP 2600-ish architecture, minus a VCO, but with duophony. The device that immediately comes to mind is...........drumroll, please.......................the Plankton ANTS!. Costs the same as a Mother 32...but it's definitely NOT a Mother 32. Yep, you get duophony via MIDI, 4 VCOs, a multimode VCF, dual EGs, dual LFOs, dual VCAs, noise, an AND gate, sample and hold, 3-in mixer...in short, all of the basics and a little bit more, plus prepatching like the better patchables that you can defeat just by busting out the patchcords. And it's a little-bitty thing: 222 x 132 x 45mm; it and the Keystep would fit in a smallish gigbag. And it most definitely expands via the Eurorack world, for later on. The sole thing of note it's missing are multiples...but on a Eurorack system this small, you'd be using inline mults or stackcables anyway. Pop over to https://www.planktonelectronics.com/ants/ to have a closer look.

just got a supercell from @tomlaan
went smooth :D very happy

Well, what you need to do is to come up with a list of six things you know the patchable MUST have. We already have one here: more than one VCO. So, let's start with that as #1, and work out five more.

Now, clearly you seem to be leaning toward something with a proper controller, such as a Moog Grandmother. But is that the right move? Would it make more sense to get something like an Arturia Keystep as both a controller AND sequencer, with that being capable of working with the initial synth and the later expansions? Also, if you eliminate the controller as being part of the synth, it's worth noting that you both widen the field of candidates + lower the price for them.

Next, what functions should the patchable have? Multiple VCOs, check. Filter...? How much "character" do you think is needed there? You're considering adding a Rings later, which is a physical modelling "filter" and therefore capable of some pretty strange transformative behavior, so maybe you can get away with something with a more simplistic filter sound for now and know that, later, you can expand on this.

More functions...modulation sources? Should it have ample LFOs and EGs? You've specced a Maths above, so again, you might go simpler here, either in terms of amount of submodules or in terms of potential complexity. Perhaps the patchable can have the "simple" sources and the more esoteric stuff can go in later?

Do you want this to be a purely subtractive synth? Or more "West Coast"? Or something down the middle such as the Pittsburgh Voltage Lab or the Make Noise 0-Coast? Or something just downright weird? And with that in mind, do you even really want it to patch with 3.5mm cables? Why not bananas, such as the Kilpatrick Phenol, or Dupont patchwires, like on the AE Modular system? After all, you can adapt one connection to the other in many different ways.

Lastly, should you jump right on into Eurorack with a voice module as your first Euro acquisition? Note that I'm NOT suggesting taking something like a Mother 32 and "de-casing" it to put it back into another case, but something like the Intellijel Atlantis, Malekko Manther Growl, Cwejman VM-1S, Eowave Quadrantid Swarm, et al.

So, work along these lines, sort your "must-haves" out into a list, then sift the data according to them. Given the sheer amount of equipment out there these days, there's SOME patchable that'll work on nearly all if not every one of the aspects you need.
-- Lugia

1) I would like to have at least 2 VCO just to be able to stack up a couple of voices
2) I forgot to mention but I already have a Keystep. I don't know how reliable a sequencer may be in a live band environment. This is kinda an experiment so I may be end using only the keys or I may find the sequencer usefull. Who knows?
3) I'm ok with going for the normal stuff first and then expand it with the "weirdness" later on. I would consider a cool low pass filter and a couple of modulation soruces + a couple of envelopes.
4) Being new to the hobby i don't really know the differences between the est and west cosat synthesys type. The only thing I can say is that i like the 0-coast but it's more on the "weird side". It's good for the strange sounds and modulation and I think it can give the best paired with another more traditional machine. Maybe I'm totally wrong about it but I don't think it's suepr good for melodic phrases or leads.

Strange and living one note very simple seq! a little indus flavor

hey man, interested in a gmsn vcf?

Fair enough and thanks a lot for the insight information!

Regarding that B. Eurorack stuff, let's see if any of that is going to come and then let's have it tested at our dealers ;-)

The B. Eurorack? Well, when it was this idea of replicating the 100M stuff, I was rather mixed on the idea. True, the 100M is VERY out of production...but there's the 500 series that Malekko's made for Roland that is a redux of the 100M, with improvements in some cases. And that, I would have a problem with...not that it hurts Roland any, but it would impact Malekko, and those guys don't deserve that. They've done some important work, such as Euro-sizing classic Wiard modules. But at this point, I'm not sure what B.'s plans for modular are; I keep hearing that they're working on things outside of the Roland 100M range, perhaps about 40 different modules. If, of course, any of that's true. But at the same time, their idea of how the 100M form factor worked was utter crap...there are NO multiples of 16 hp that can make up a full row in any of the typical Eurorack cases, not even the 104 hp-er that B. is releasing, so if these new modules go beyond that one panel size, it'd be helpful (maybe). Ultimately, I think there's enough modular circuits out there for use (especially if you have a chip fab line for the CEM chips, which they do) that Uli's designers should be able to come up with a unique line, and not merely a clone. Unless, of course, it's a clone of something unobtainable...which we might see a bit of, since I'd heard of some linkages between B. and AMSynths and their efforts to clone ARP 2500 modules, or the repeated claims that there's "going to be an ARP 2600" from B., something Korg apparently blew off.

As for the SE-II...that's just dumb on Uli's part. It and the SE-IV would technically be under Eminent's patents, which should be quite expired at this point, ergo no licensing issues although credit-where-credit's-due should come into play here. And although the SE-IV is DEFINITELY the version of the Solina that everyone wants, I think the idea here is to kick something cheap out the door to compete with/annoy Waldorf and the Streichfett. Even though I have a Crumar Performer, I've also had an SE-IV, and they're very different creatures, ergo I might've jumped at getting a cheap SE-IV. But not this, and others who know the difference won't jump at it, either.

Then there's the "theft" reissues...the Model D, the MS-20, the Odyssey. All of these are, in some way, active products. And the Model D is something of an iconic device for Moog, even if all of the patents have expired. It's nice to have the ability to get a cheap Minimoog, I suppose...but I have some issues with the ethics of that as far as how Uli's opted to deal with it.

EDITED Sep 2nd 2019, 01:36

Hi Lugia,

With most of your points I agree. It really looks like Behringer comes with products where either licences are no problem any longer or they are very cheap, hence perhaps the Solina SE-II (instead of SE-IV)?

As long as it comes down to "normal business" (yeah I know that's a big term saying anything or nothing) with acceptable products like the Neutron and hopefully the Pro-1, then that's fine with me. If due to the sake of taking/using technology that either has no longer patents issues or licence matters... I feel it's difficult to decide if I don't like it or if it's a matter of just the x-th version of such (older) product. So beside the matter if it's doing correctly business or not, to me if it's "just the x-th version" of something it becomes rather boring or at it's best yet another copy of something.

So my advice to Behringer is to come more with their real own stuff and not yet another copy of yet another retro product.

So how's your opinion about Behringer's Eurorack plans? I guess not too good either? ;-)

Anyway, I guess time will teach us if Behringer's approach (from a commercial point of view) is a good one, somehow I am afraid it is...

Kind regards,

Garfield.

Hmmm...a poster example of "Sexy Module Syndrome"...

This will not only not work the way you expect, it won't work that way with MAXIMAL expense! I hope you haven't bought all of this, because there's some grave mistakes here. Let's rip into this...

I see three (actually 3 1/2, but you didn't add the Brains along with the Pressure Points) sequencers. And I see ZERO modules which can work with timing trigger/gates to create more complex pattern behavior between the three. No delays, no comparators, no logic, no probabilistics, no dividers, no multipliers. Zilch.

There are NO VCAs! None! Yeah, I know...VCAs look BORE-INGG, but they're quite essential. How do you expect to control any of your levels, audio or CV/mod, without those? And, for that matter...

There are NO EGs! Well, there's one lone Maths that's being tasked with every single bit of modulator duties in this build. But the Maths isn't exactly a dedicated envelope generator that can give you the nice exponential envelopes you need for your audio path VCAs (when you decided to put them in). Where are your LFOs? Your standard envelope gens?

There is ONE mixer in this entire build. Given that you need mixers and/or adders to combine signals, ahhh...yeah.

Basically, this is a great example of how to spend money to fill up a Eurorack cab, but it's missing about half of the sleepy-looking scutwork-type modules that MUST be in there to make these sexy, expensive, blinky ones function optimally. Or, for that matter, as a synthesizer in general. As it stands now, it's an interesting collection of...stuff, but a poorly-planned one, in the end. If this is simply a MG build, I would suggest deleting it and starting over AFTER taking some time to study how classic synths are structured and AFTER quite a bit of time spent here on MG going through the really dull-looking modules and understanding what those are for. And believe me, they definitely exist for a reason!

Oh...one last thing: Maths = Serge DUSG. Not Buchla. Again...study, don't just read adverts. Go back and look at a Serge system and a Buchla 200 (same general vintage) side by side. Don never used the same sort of slope gen implementations that Serge Tcherepnin did, mainly because Don kept his audio and control paths separate and Serge didn't. This is the sort of thing you pick up on from actually digging into the history, concept, and so on behind these classic systems, along with why they're designed the way they are. By picking up on these concepts the...yes, hard way...you learn to avoid critical (and costly) mistakes in designing a modular. And the above is definitely quite costly!

Yeah...the thing that Uli loves to do, with creating CGI mockups, dropping them on forums such as Gearslutz, and then basing his marketing decisions on what degree of hype he can observe...that's the thing I really detest. Basically, that's market research via trolling, IMHO...it's lazy, it annoys quite a few people, it tells us little about the final product other than that it might exist eventually, and so on. Then when he starts showing off his "field prototype" and "production run" pics in the same way, it still tells us NOTHING in the way of when the product will be available, NO exact MSRP figures, NO general availability, ad nauseaum. In the meantime, there's a certain...ah...arrogance? to this, how it seems that "influencers" can get his protos but I've never, ever heard of anyone with an actual background in instrument design or "in the trenches" musicians (except on rare occasions) obtaining a B. "field prototype" to really dive into.

And this can have predictably shitty results. F'rinstance, let's look at the NEW (ie: vaporware) Behringer "Solina". Now, Eminent made a few different versions of this for ARP, and users who have experience with them know that the SE-IV was THE version to have. But Uli opted to base his redux on the SE-II. This is the one that the "world's most famous pop, rock, jazz and disco musicians" didn't like. It wasn't stereo, it sounded thinner, it had no control over mixing the "ranks", and so on. The "lounge band" version, more or less. And to this, he's added a very basic phase shifter circuit which is...well, OK, but the other key to the Solina sound was flanging, and I see no flanger circuit here even though B. does, in fact, make them. In the end, it looks more like the Behringer "I Can Haz Streichfett Too" synth and not the Solina that everyone who knows better has been wanting.

So, when Uli gets it RIGHT...sure, I'm down. Neutron: OK. Pro-1: Sure. RD-8: fine. But when he screws up (this "Solina"), or when he just decides to go for intellectual property theft (Mackie, dbx, et al) and whip out something currently being made (MS-20, Odyssey)...yeah, screw that, and him too. He needs to learn to play nice with others.

EDITED Sep 1st 2019, 21:37

Well, what you need to do is to come up with a list of six things you know the patchable MUST have. We already have one here: more than one VCO. So, let's start with that as #1, and work out five more.

Now, clearly you seem to be leaning toward something with a proper controller, such as a Moog Grandmother. But is that the right move? Would it make more sense to get something like an Arturia Keystep as both a controller AND sequencer, with that being capable of working with the initial synth and the later expansions? Also, if you eliminate the controller as being part of the synth, it's worth noting that you both widen the field of candidates + lower the price for them.

Next, what functions should the patchable have? Multiple VCOs, check. Filter...? How much "character" do you think is needed there? You're considering adding a Rings later, which is a physical modelling "filter" and therefore capable of some pretty strange transformative behavior, so maybe you can get away with something with a more simplistic filter sound for now and know that, later, you can expand on this.

More functions...modulation sources? Should it have ample LFOs and EGs? You've specced a Maths above, so again, you might go simpler here, either in terms of amount of submodules or in terms of potential complexity. Perhaps the patchable can have the "simple" sources and the more esoteric stuff can go in later?

Do you want this to be a purely subtractive synth? Or more "West Coast"? Or something down the middle such as the Pittsburgh Voltage Lab or the Make Noise 0-Coast? Or something just downright weird? And with that in mind, do you even really want it to patch with 3.5mm cables? Why not bananas, such as the Kilpatrick Phenol, or Dupont patchwires, like on the AE Modular system? After all, you can adapt one connection to the other in many different ways.

Lastly, should you jump right on into Eurorack with a voice module as your first Euro acquisition? Note that I'm NOT suggesting taking something like a Mother 32 and "de-casing" it to put it back into another case, but something like the Intellijel Atlantis, Malekko Manther Growl, Cwejman VM-1S, Eowave Quadrantid Swarm, et al.

So, work along these lines, sort your "must-haves" out into a list, then sift the data according to them. Given the sheer amount of equipment out there these days, there's SOME patchable that'll work on nearly all if not every one of the aspects you need.

It's exactly what i want to do: start with a semi-modular synth and then expand it with some modules.
The problem is: i don't know which one should i buy.

EDITED Sep 1st 2019, 08:19

Longer envelopes in Plaits was a good advice. Thanks!

Hi Squallaz,

I don't want to take away your enthusiasm here however if your budget is US$ 850 (let's say Euro 800), perhaps you shouldn't start with an Eurorack system. A "basic" Eurosystem (depending on what you want) starts in my opinion with at least several thousands of dollars/Euros. Below US$ 2000 I think it's difficult to get you something that you need. With US$ 3000 it's getting better but you still want and need more ;-) It can go as high as US$ 5000 or more and than you still want & need more, that's the "lousy" part of Eurorack, the initial start up of getting started with Eurorack is immense expensive.

Why you don't look for a (semi-modular) desktop synthesizer (like the Grandmother you mentioned) and start with that first? If you still enthusiastic about that then perhaps in the future you can consider moving to/adding a Eurorack system?

If I would be you, I would spend US$ 850 into some nice desktop stuff, and start saving money for a Eurorack system, then let's say, if you are still enthiousiastic after one or two years and then consider a larger budget.

Naturally, that's totally up to you :-)

Kind regards,

Garfield Modular.

Hi MusikM,

Is this system something you got already or are you in the planning phase and considering this?

You really got a lot of interesting modules in this one, I wish I was as daring as you are :-)

Without wanting to sound or to be negative... I miss a bit the "basic stuff". Did I overlooked it or don't I see any envelopes? You might want to consider a few of those EGs. How about VCAs? You also might want to consider a slightly bit bigger case 5 * 84 perhaps so you have some spare space since this case is already pretty full and you might not have enough space for the near future.

As you mentioned for this not too large setup, do you really need two large sequencers to start with? If the Eloquencer is the best module, why do you still need the FLXS1? ;-) I am myself still looking for a good sequencer and I still can't decide. I am waiting for the Endorphin.es Ground Control and Erica Synths Black Sequencer, hoping that one of these will be the sequencer I am looking for.

If you have hands on experience with the Eloquencer then please let me know how are your findings about it? I am quite interested in that module too.

Good luck with planning(?) of this setup and kind regards,

Garfield Modular.

Hi Ronin1973 and Lugia,

I had a chance to test the ARP Odyssey Rev. 3 (Black version but also the white version Rev. 1) at my local dealer, if that's the one you are talking about here. To be honest, after I all heard the positive news of the original ARP from last time, I wasn't overly exicited by it when I tested it. It's certainly not bad and perhaps it's just me, but it's just not my cup of tea I guess.

Sorry Lugia, I have to agree with Ronin that the Neutron is a good deal. I got that one too, here in Europe it's around Euro 300 and I am very happy with it. I thought after getting a Eurorack system I wouldn't be much interested in it any more but I am still looking at it, no better, I am still using it together with my Eurorack system and I am still very happy to use it together with my modules.

The Model D I feel it's a slightly bit too expensive, it goes here in Europe for about Euro 300 too. I am waiting for a better deal and might then get the Model D too.

Similar as you guys, I can't wait for the Pro One, hopefully it's going to be as good as the Neutron or better!

Lugia, if Behringer can make their Odyssey better than the current ARP Odyssey on the market today, then I would be happy to get that one too ;-) But let's see, hopefully Behringer doesn't follow the "touch and feel quality" of the current ARP Odyssey, then I might be not very interested.

I totally agree with you Lugia that this all takes far too long, Behringer introduces a lot of new stuff but we are waiting here and sitting ducks... that's the part I also don't like!

Let's just hope that at least for all our waiting we get surprised with one or two good products then I would be happy already :-)

Kind regards,

Garfield.

Hi guys!
In the last couple of weeks i have been enjoying a lot VCV and i tryied a bunch of modules. Now I would love to pick up my first semimodular synth but i don't know what to do.

A couple of notes:
1) My goal is to make the synth fit into an indie-rock / math rock band (lead and bass stuff) thus its sound should be as much "musical" as possible.
2) I want to expand this first synth with a small euro-rack in the future
3) my budget is like 850€ max

I was thinking about a moog grandmother. The Mother 32 could be good but it has only on VCO and i am not totally sure about it. It feels really limiting. I may be wrong but the minibrute 2s seems to have a "techno sound" and sonically it is not really what i'm looking for.
Another good candidate is the Pittsburgh Modular Lifeforms SV-1. I kinda like the sound of the oscillators but a lot of people seems to report tuning issues with this machine. It ahs a lot of utility built into it tho.
I really don't know what to do lol.

The first modules i'ld like to buy after the synth are:

1) Make Noise Maths
2) MI Plaits
3) MI Rings

About Modules

1, Row

Plaits: My favorite, it's a macro-oscillator, very easy to use and modulation, also has beautiful voices. Must have it!

Galilean Moons: It's a brilliant module. You can use it as VCO, Envelope, or just some small fx. It's originally an expender from another module, but you can also use without that (i always use it alone).

Chord v2: A polyphonic oscillator, making chord of course haha but beautiful voices. Normally the one module can only make one voice, if you wanna make a chord, you'll need...............

Prism: A multi signal processor, it has 2 stereo input and 2 stereo output, the best thing is, besides the normal control parameter, it has a "filter type" control with CV, also can use in clock input. It has lots of fun function, can add more changes to your music.

Filter 8: It's a multimode filter and 8 phase oscillator. You can see so much CV jack on it, so just patch it and twist it, you will get lots of surprises, trust me~

ABC: Very useful mixer, because of it so tiny, just 5HP, and have 6 channel. Super for the small set.

Audio Interface II: You can use it to connect your external line level instrument, fx units, synths or drum machines that you can play along with your eurorack. You can also patch it out to a DAW or whatever you want.

2, ROW

Disting mk4: Very very very very useful module in just 4HP. It has hundreds function inside, whatever what features your rack missing, it all can give you. It also has a micro SD card slot, support audio files, it can read loop marker in audio files, MIDI files, MIDI/CV conversion, scales files, and playlist files for all forms. Just need to read and find the function code you need in the user manual (too much to remember!)

Erbe-Verb: A DSP Reverb with many control options. ( if you have some external reverb device like guitar pedal or any hardware, you can also use those, the difference is those are not eurorack, so it's up to you. My point is, if you want to put something more interested modules in your rack, but out of the space, than you could consider that option. Or you could buy a big case at first then put them all inside hahaha!)

Maths: A analog computer, based on tradition Buchla's Algebraic Processor. Legend!

Belgrad: 1976 Dual Peak Multimode State Variable Filter. Like the big knob design.

FLXS1: 4 channel 64 step sequencer. A great sequencer with multi-function and colorful design. The only thing is, just 4 channel, not enough for a big set, but super for the small set. Or can also work with different multi sequencers in the future, they are all can sync with the same clock.

3, ROW

Spherical Wavetable Navigator: Six channel synthesizer with six wavetable oscillators. The chords and modulation are great, just a little hard to trig the right chords in sequencing, but lots of possibilities. Im still working on it.

Shapeshifter: Dual Complex Wavetable VCO, multi voices choice, a lot of modulation and control possibilities. It has preset sequencing and morphing, delay based resonator, 64-band vocoder mode, analog wavefolder, detuneable 8-note chords, extensive sync, pulse and mod B options etc. Very useful module.

Pressure Points: Touch Controller / Manual Sequencer. It has touch plates, if you wanna play something by hand in your rack, you can use this. (you can also use the controller / keyboard who has cv output to play with your rack.)

Loquelic Iteritas: Super powerful voice, it's really awesome... If you like the characteristically wicked voice, that's it. BEST one! When i first time patches it and heard that voice, it shocked me out, i really got physically attacked by its voice. I think you can use that voice, this module, to kill someone, no kidding... I can't use it more than 5 min, it quite hard to stand, so still not succeeded in making a single patch with it... Just take a listen, you will see...

4, ROW

Eloquencer: Best Eurorack sequencer, i think everyone has it haha. Just a little bit big for a small set.

Rene Mk2: 3D cartesian music sequencer. It's a unique sequencer, different than others. If you have space, could have some fun with it.

As for the Odyssey, I'd rather give Korg the money. They were there first, plus David Friend of ARP assisted them with bringing it back. That's a Uli move I don't endorse. True, it has a few additional functions, but since you can get the "real deal" for all intents and purposes, I think that would be more appropriate.

But as for the RD-8? Yeah...the Roland Boutique really didn't match up to the original, so Uli wins there. As long as he sticks to the currently-unobtainables, I don't have much of a problem with B.'s reduxes.

Bought a Richter Oscillator II from @sram, everything went smooth and it was well-packcaged.

Do you have commentary on the Odyssey?

I really like the Neutron and Model D. They surpass my "good enough" expectations and for $300... well... you can't beat the price.

The RD-8 is being sold for $350! To me that's insanely good for an entire 808.

Hee...actually, there are two B. products that will probably wind up in here before much longer, tbh. One of those is their 808 clone, and the other is the Pro-1. Someone whose ear I trust has put the RD-8 through its paces, comparing it to their experiences with the Real Deal, and they state that the only obvious difference is that the timing on the RD-8 is tighter than the original. Now, this might be a problem, as I think that one of the things that made the TR-808's feel right was that certain amount of "slop" that added a tad of humanization to things, but there might also be a (M4L-generated clock quantizing jitter, perhaps?) way around this.

As for the Pro-1, Dan Bell up in Tha D has had a preproduction unit for a while, and the original Pro-One is something he knows inside and out since that's one of his mainstay axes. His verdict was that it's indistinguishable from the Sequential version...and this, interestingly, makes sense since B. now manufactures the redone CEM chips, meaning that the original and the Pro-1 have essentially the same chipset for the signal path. Again, this is someone whose judgement I trust implicitly, not someone random shill on Gearslutz that's sucking up to Uli. So, given that I'd like to have a Pro-One(ish) again (this would be...ah...#3? I think?), and given that the sound is pretty much spot-on and there's little else that B. can fuck up there, this seems like a logical buy. Whenever Uli bothers to get 'em out the door in Shenzhen, that is.

Don't let Lugia hear this, but the Behringer stuff isn't bad for simply for the oscillator sections.

The Boog aka Model D has a stack of three oscillators + noise, 1v octave CV, with a Eurorack level oscillator mix output (pre-filter) and doesn't require racking... for $300. Plus, it's a full MiniMoog clone all on its own. I don't think you're going to find that kind of functionality for $300 if you source everything individually. Granted the oscillators aren't capable of hard-sync nor have individual outputs. But if you go with the 0-Coast and you want some analog to go with it, it's an option.

The Neutron can be thought as a utility box that includes sample & hold, slew generator, a couple of extra ADSRs, attenuators, two VCAs, filter, etc. Plus two oscillators that can hard-sync.

I wouldn't call either ideal for replacing dedicated, individual modules. But they are worthy of consideration if you're trying to get more out of your set-up with limited funds. I've used both as stand-alone synths connected to my DAW for a few tracks... because sometimes you just want something quick without a ton of patching.

EDITED Aug 29th 2019, 17:27

Bought an Audio I_O 1U from @restlessboy. Smooth transaction, quick shipping and nice package. Recommended.