+1 for the Synth tech e330, I liked that one a lot.
You might also want to check out the Malekko Osc and Anti-Osc. They make up a fantastic combo and are not too expensive if you find them second hand.
Building a bread and butter synth out of modular gear is a quick way to get a good traditional sound and getting the basics of a modular setup at the same time. While the patching options are few on a traditional east coast modular, it provides the basic building blocks that will always be useful in a more complex setup later. My mistake was to choose too basic modules originally as I quickly became familiar with them and started wishing for more. I think building a trad monosynth out of as complex modules as one can afford would be the way to go initially. If I where to do it again I would get some sexy units from joranalouge and a handful of quality utilities.
Synthesis Technology e330 is a great VCO at a decent price point. It would compliment your two analog VCOs nicely and offers finger friendly wiggling.
Noted, I'll be sure to do that in the future.
Sweet, I'm glad we finally arrived at something. I'll definitely take your advice on which pieces to buy first. Time to start (slowly) gathering and building. Thanks again for taking the time to help a newbie!
Hey Marcel,
When you're posting your racks. A link to the rack itself should embed it in this thread. When you're asking for recommendations, being able to click on the modules is pretty helpful as no one can be familiar with every module.
Here's your Synth Voice rack. I added quotes and put a space between each slash so it wouldn't end up linking.
"https: //www.modulargrid.net /e /racks /view /1039061"
It looks good for a starter. There's the Disting, which is GREAT as a sampler pack of different functionality you might want to add dedicated modules for. An extra VCA is nice. But I would order it in the second round of purchases as well as your effects.
When you're ready, I'd add a second oscillator and small mixer. A two oscillator synth is much more powerful than one. The Intellijel Dixie II+ would pair well. It also functions as an LFO if you so wish. The Atlantis has a sync input. Sync sounds are always fun. Again... all with a grain of salt because your journey will be about what you wish to explore.
Love the Atlantis! I’ve mapped out a few new 104 hp racks, one with the Atlantis and another with an attempt for quadraphony for a 4 voice piece I’m composing in school.
Quad Osc:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1038500.jpg
Atlantis:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/shots/watermark_rack/modulargrid_1039061.jpg?1572547013
I’m going to try to replicate them both in VCV and play around to find out the best way to use the extra space to modulate signals coming through these modules.
somehow the post content didn't show up here. Here it is:
Hi, i am wondering how people solve this issue:
When sending a reset message to the Quad Envelope reset input, the internal sequencer resets to step 1, and if then clock signal comes in, it starts playing from step 2 (because it was already at step 1).
That means, i can never have the full sequencer step resolution. Does anyone have an idea about how to solve this?
Hi, i am wondering how people solve this issue:
When sending a reset message to the Quad Envelope reset input, the internal sequencer resets to step 1, and if then clock signal comes in, it starts playing from step 2 (because it was already at step 1).
That means, i can never have the full sequencer step resolution. Does anyone have an idea about how to solve this?
Before I start... everyone has their own opinions. So take this with a salt-lick grain of salt.
If it were my money and I was starting over again, I would go with the Intellijel Atlantis. It's based on the Roland MS101. It's a complete synth in Eurorack.
The other option is a Behringer Neutron. It's less expensive and doesn't require being mounted in Eurorack and comes with USB and DIN MIDI.
If you outgrow either the Atlantis or the Neutron, the resell value on them is decent.
Thanks @yochwired, for the nice contact, fast shipping and item is in perfect condition.
@Nucle Great seller ! Fast replies to question, fast shipping.
All arrived in perfect shape, will buy again.
thx widy
I think I underestimated the limitations of such a small set up. I’ll keep going in VCV for sure; I’ve been having a ton of fun learning and building performative ensembles in there without limitation, but I’m definitely wanting to begin taking steps towards building a eurorack. I feel confident enough to start by buying a larger (maybe 104hp) skiff, a full synth voice, and few other supporting modules to modulate and modify then build slowly from there.
Thanks again for the help, y’all. This page has been an invaluable resource.
Hi Marcel Riccelli,
I started with a Behringer Neutron before I went into Eurorack and the Neutron thought me a lot, it allows some basic patching and has everything to get started. Budget-wise the Neutron is very reasonable, in Europe it's at about Euro 299. Or you can consider the Behringer Model-D, I don't have experience with that one yet but it's on my wish list. I think to start with, the Neutron is really not a bad choice.
Once you know the Neutron in and out and you are happy with patching it, then, and only then, you should consider to move to Eurorack. Start then with planning a new rack with the buildup experience you got from the Neutron and keep checking this forum of course :-) Please also follow up the advice of Ronin1973 to practice in VCV as well before spending tons of money into Eurorack ;-)
Good luck and kind regards,
Garfield Modular.
For review reports of Eurorack modules, please refer to https://garfieldmodular.net/ for PDF formatted downloads
Gotcha, makes sense. I think you’re right. I’ve considered a few synth voice modules (with OSC/VCA/FILTER) paired with some other oscilators, effects, and utilities modules, but couldn’t land on one. Any suggestions?
Well, your second attempt to build a synth will work. But it's a very limited build.
I would suggest one of Intellijel's cases with the 1U row.
Your Cascade module is $100US and offers 3 attenuverters. An Intellijel 1U Quadrat will give you the same functionality with FOUR attenuverters for $80. You can use your Cascade to address 3 CV signals, three audio signals or a combination of both. You'll use them up quickly.
Peaks is a jack-of-all-trades module... but breaks down pretty quickly if you need more than one type of function. For instance if you want TWO envelopes you can only directly control the attack and decay. It's not bad... but it's very limited.
Basically, what you've built is a two oscillator synth that's pretty plain. You'd be better off buying a synth voice module (a module that contains everything you need to produce a basic synth sound). You could even start with a semi modular synth and then add a rack of stuff to it.
Spend some more time in VCV and up your budget. I'd really see if you can find a semi-modular that's compatible with Eurorack as your entry point into Eurorack. You'll have less heartache and start with a complete synth, MIDI interface, etc.
Woops! The mixer/attenuator/inverter was too deep. Swapped it out in this one.
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1037736.jpg
Yeah, that's the feeling that I'm getting. Nonetheless, I've enjoyed trying to plan out this mini-rack, and it's taught me a bit about planning a rack in general. I took another shot at it running with Jeff's suggestion with just a few minor alterations: https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1037736.jpg?1572473320s
How's that look?
I think these modules give me the added benefit of being able to test them (or similar modules) out in VCV Rack and see what the capabilities would be.
I'm gonna plan out a larger 104hp rack later on and compare costs.
Hey Davidaellis,
I own a MiniBrute 2s and you can patch it to external modules easily using the patchbay indeed. Both VCO1 and VCO2 have outputs you could send to your reverb module. You can return it back using the master or ext inputs, master will mix your input to the final audio signal from the MiniBrute, the ext input will send your signal through the MiniBrute's filter, envelopes, brute factor and everything else, this can be controlled with the ext fader in the VCO1 section.
The MiniBrute's manual is pretty easy to follow and there's a full section on the patchbay, you may want to check it out.
Have fun.
-- Exposure
I would suggest using the "AMP OUT" rather than directly from the VCOs. I don't think you'll want to apply reverb then your filter. The amp-out is going to be at or near the end of the signal chain.
Page 64 of the manual describes the Ext Inputs. It's not very clear, but I think the Ext In Master jack disconnects the synth when a patch cable is present. I would definitely test that. If true, you could create an insert by going from the amp out, to your reverb, and then to the ext in-master. Just not that your signal will return in mono since there's only one input.
http://downloads.arturia.com/products/minibrute-2/manual/minibrute-2_Manual_1_0_EN.pdf
Thank you for your detailed reply.
They are not 1:1 compatible. The Roland System 100 expects much stronger mod signals than Eurorack provides - that is indeed the problem I’m trying to solve.
If I can take an envelope modulating from 0V-5V and ramp it up to 0V-10V, I’ll be in business.
I'm going to reply late to here but something to observe.
The Maths module is capable of doing offsets. So while your VCA knob may be all the way down, you may be leaking an offset into it that prevents it from fully closing.
On your Maths output, be sure to use the direct-out from channel #1 or channel #4 and not the mixer out. Use the output below the black box with the LED in it and not the outputs labeled "1" or "4" or "sum" etc. Then you'll be sure that your VCA fully closes.
This might not be the case... but it might be.
I'm going to reply late to here but something to observe.
The Maths module is capable of doing offsets. So while your VCA knob may be all the way down, you may be leaking an offset into it that prevents it from fully closing.
On your Maths output, be sure to use the direct-out from channel #1 or channel #4 and not the mixer out. Use the output below the black box with the LED in it and not the outputs labeled "1" or "4" or "sum" etc. Then you'll be sure that your VCA fully closes.
This might not be the case... but it might be.
One more for the pile-on.
Creating a small-rack requires a lot of knowledge of Eurorack; more so than creating one that's a total of 208HP for example. Cramming everything that you need into such a small space means knowing exactly what the capabilities of your modules are and having confidence in your set-up to do everything you specifically want.
It's the difference between building a grandfather clock a pocket-watch. The finer details matter a LOT more.
Build a "complete" system, get familiar with Eurorack, then if you want to build a small rack it'll be less of an issue. Building a small rack from the get-go without intimate knowledge of Eurorack is going to mean a lot of wasted money and time.
Thanks a lot for your detailed responses! I think I overestimated the capabilities of the SWN. I’ll definitely go back to the drawing board then post here in a bit.
I agree with Lugia,
What you have there with those 4 modules is a way to create notes and gates, letting you play the SWN - which is a beast to use as a normal musical oscillator, going into clouds, which - unless you have some more modulation sources, is going to give you some grain effect and reverb on the stereo signal coming out of SWN, and then Rosie to output it to headphones/line out. This is not a good start to modular synths. You can make some pretty fantastic drones (I have SWN and Clouds), but not much else - without some good external LFOs/Envelopes, A FILTER, and some VCAs that aren't the ones inside SWN. If your starting with modular, and keeping under 34mm deep in 60HP (as an example), start with:
- Two oscillators: Mutable Plaits (for variety) and a Make Noise STO (analog! FM source, second/third voice - as Plaits has two),
- Mutable Ripples (a VCF - that even has a VCA),
- a multi-purpose VCA (mutable Veils - 4 channels, use it as a mixer too - you can never have too many VCAs),
- an envelope generator - Xaoc ZADAR has 4 that can do some LFO-like tasks,
- and Rosie for output
All that would fit in 58HP and has a max depth of 30mm.
You can do something with 60HP, sure - but SWN and Clouds are great textural add-ons to a collection of modules that already covers the basics.
What I gave as an example comes up to $1320 on MG - where your original plan is $1412. And I guarantee you will have a lot more fun with those two oscillators, the VCF and ZADAR. So many patching possibilities, so many modulation and cross modulation sources and destinations, FM, AM... so much versatility there!
I'd even drop Rosie if you don't need headphone outs - and get Make Noise X-Pan - then you can do some wild stereo panning effects.
Cheers,
Jeff
You're going to need more than 6 hp of free space, for starters. What's happened here is that you're trying to cram too much function into too small a case. It might seem cheaper...but when you arrive at a basically-unworkable result like this, you start to see how things get unnecessarily expensive or annoyingly tiny...or both.
If this is still a MG build, scrap it and start over in something that has a more practical amount of room. Things like the Pods really exist to house "orphan" modules alongside other rigs; they're not a nice solution to making a small modular.
If you want to turn your transients to gates, a logic module for each drum sound would be helpful. Once the audio goes above a certain voltage, you'll generate a gate through the logic module... just tap the "or" output. From there you can apply whatever you'd like. Envelope followers were also mentioned. That will generate CV based on the instantaneous amplitude of the signal.
And a third device would work if the solution is to simply open/close a gate: a comparator. These also play nice with logic gates to allow strange polyrhythms and weird timing manipulations. But Ronin's on point when he says...
Honestly, Eurorack isn't the best solution. You'd be better off with a laptop with an 8-in and 8-out interface and software like Ableton. From there you can process, envelope follow, and whatever the heck you want out of your inputs. But using Eurorack is just going to be a cluster with meager results.
Eurorack ain't for everything.
-- Ronin1973
And I agree 100% there. This isn't really the right application for Eurorack, as such. It might make more sense to use an electronic drum kit and process its output mix through a Eurorack system, thereby avoiding the need for the piezos, the extra modules, etc etc etc. But doing this purely in Eurorack will get expensive and unwieldy pretty quickly.
That's not going to work, as such. You can't exactly "amplify" CVs or modulation signals and arrive at a useful result most of the time. What you can do, though, is to use an adder to add a DC offset voltage of a given amount to raise the CV/mod level. But the sort of amplification you're talking about here would probably be pretty useless...and potentially destructive, as an x2 'amplification" of a 10V p2p modulation signal would give you a 20V p2p one, and that's apt to damage circuits that're used to seeing no more than 10V or so at their inputs.
Have a look at the Doepfer A-185-2, vpme.de's T43, or Tiptop's MISO...all of which are useful for modifying CV/mod levels. But the thing that I'm wondering here is that, if Eurorack and the Roland System 100 use the same CV/gate standard, why do the levels need boosting from the Eurorack to the Roland system? Everything should track 1:1 between those two.
Hey, y’all!
I’m building my first rack inside of a 40ms 60hp Pod. I’ve mapped out a few of the modules I’d like to use, and have 6hp of space I’m unsure about.
Modules I’ve planned so far:
Mutable Yarns
4ms Spherical Waveform Navigator
uBurst
MakeNoise Rosie
I’m wondering if there’s anything I’m forgetting to be able to perform this thing. If there isn’t, what kind of module could I throw in there that could give me the ability to modulate things differently, or generally get the most use of the space with the features already available? Maybe some extra effects or a VCA for the Audio Out of the 4ms Spherical Waveform Nav? I thought maybe some utilities, like 2hp Mult, 2hp Mixer, and a 2hp inverter, to be able to modify control voltages from the LFOs, wavetable, & Yarns.
The 60hp Pod is only 34mm deep, so modules such as the Expert Sleepers Dister & 2hp products are not compatible.
Any reccomendations would be greatly appreciated, thank you!
Bump to this topic a couple years later. I would love to see width and height options similar to the way you handle hp and u for modulars. Variable boards that resemble a PedalTrain with 2 rails, 4 rails, or 5 rails, and variable width, but using a generic, royalty-free illustration. If you let me know the image spaces for the 2 ends and the variable space, I'm happy to provide hires images. As I'm sure you are aware, any pedal freaks (or modular geeks) are pretty neurotic, and plywood or blank floor totally kill the vibe . Plus, it is helpful to see how the rails line up for planning your cabling.
This is just a terrible idea from the get-go. To do it right, you're going to need individual mics on each piece of the drum kit. You're going to need a preamp for each mic. You'll probably want a mixer with a minimum of 8 buses to get each drum sound (or stereo pair for overheads) out to your Eurorack. You'll also want a line to Eurorack level module with multiple inputs and outputs... else a bunch of single modules.
Now you have audio going into your Eurorack. If you want to turn your transients to gates, a logic module for each drum sound would be helpful. Once the audio goes above a certain voltage, you'll generate a gate through the logic module... just tap the "or" output. From there you can apply whatever you'd like. Envelope followers were also mentioned. That will generate CV based on the instantaneous amplitude of the signal.
You'll also need a compliment of envelopes, VCAs, or whatever else you're looking to run through.
Honestly, Eurorack isn't the best solution. You'd be better off with a laptop with an 8-in and 8-out interface and software like Ableton. From there you can process, envelope follow, and whatever the heck you want out of your inputs. But using Eurorack is just going to be a cluster with meager results.
Eurorack ain't for everything.
Bought a module from @pawal - everything was as described and international shipping was fast. Many thanks!
Thanks @Lugia,
It’s primary function will be to bolster modulation signals coming from my eurorack and modulating my Roland System 100-101.
That's not enough information. Is the signal in question audio or a CV or modulation signal?
Technically, you don't "play" the VCAs. But what does happen is that you work with the control and/or modulation sources connected to them in order to control either audio or CV/modulation levels. It's sort of like how you also don't "play" a sample and hold...the sample and hold is what "plays" other things instead.
The entire point of the voltage-controlled synthesizer is to put many different electronic music functions under a fairly minimal set of controls, and this goes back to both Buchla's and Moog's original concepts. The idea is that if you press a key (more typical in a Moog system), you can control pitch and duration, but also trigger other circuits such as envelope generators, etc with the same key-press gesture. So, if you wanted to create a neat lead sound with some VCO sync sweeping, a nice rubbery filter sound, and a slowly-building vibrato, you'd connect up the controller's CV output with the VCOs and VCF, then set up a few envelope generators...one to do the VCO2 sweep, one to get the filter contour, and a third for controlling the slow-rise on a linear, DC-coupled VCA that's passing an LFO to VCO1. Oh, and you'd probably also want to mult up the VCF envelope to yet another VCA (exponential in this case) to contour the sound's level. And this is all on one keypress.
And why? Well, prior to the development of this, electronic music was a massive PITA to work with, and Herb Deutsch (on the East coast) and the composers at the San Francisco Tape Music Center (West coast, natch) asked Bob Moog and Don Buchla (respectively) to come up with some sort of solution to simplify and power up these processes through some sort of technological solution. In short, they were trying to get to a point where it was possible to do less for more results, and both cases here were successful. But the thing they were trying to avoid was where you address every...single...frickin'...control...one...at...a...time in order to arrive at a result. So the point of a synthesizer's controls isn't that they're necessarily supposed to be performance controllers, but that when you can bring several aspects of control into play, you have the ability to make adjustments when needed, and let your controller systems do the heavy lifting.
basically I’m looking for a module that behaves exactly like a buffered mult, but amplifies the signal X2 at each output. does anyone know if such a thing exists? (smaller the better.)
yeah to a large extent it is access to knobs - in the case of the veils it's a cascading quad vca - so in a lot of cases I use it as effectively a mixer that has vca on the inputs
but I was really being more generic (ie not just about vcas) - it seems a lot of people want to get more and more, smaller and smaller modules into the same space - I don't find small dense modules fun to use - and the few 2 hp modules that I have with knobs are always sandwiched between 2 larger modules with space around the edges near the knobs on the small modules, I even do the same with disting, as I find the knobs are difficult to get to with a lot of jacks/knobs around it
NP about links and kinks
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities
Oh for sure, I appreciate that the larger size has upsides, and I've heard many good things about Veils. Out of curiosity, how do you "play" a VCA? Other modules I get, but is it just manually changing the level?
Thanks for Links & Kinks btw, I use those in VCV all the time but forgot about them for this.
Well, the problem with the Ears should be pretty apparent: you're paying for an onboard contact mic that's not useful for the purpose you have in mind here. I also feel that putting a contact mic in a patchpanel is a pretty bad idea unless you can disable it somehow to avoid lots of extraneous clunking and banging around that'll get into your signal path. It might be cool-looking and all...but it's not the right tool.
Basically, you're talking about using this sort of thing: https://reverb.com/item/2274010-2x-piezo-elements-for-drum-triggers-contact-mics-fast-shipping , which is a piezo sensor that can also act as a contact microphone. These need a good bit of amplification to be musically useful along with the other parts of the needed module, namely the envelope follower. My concern is whether the Ears's input preamp is capable of the necessary level of amplification...if it's designed for line-level input signals, it might not be. But both my Dean Markley and John Pearse contact mic/pickups do need that, so I'm basing my observations on those. There are a few that have high outputs (AKG makes one that I've used before to amplify a chalkboard through a Peavey stack via its guitar-level input), but they're not piezos.
And I should note...the next consideration is going to be what you plan to do with the envelope following function, since there's no VCAs here or, for that matter, much else that the envelope follower can interact with. And if you're planning to use this with drums, that consideration is key.
Thanks for your feedback!
I won't be miking the whole kit, but rather one or two drums at a time. It should be said that this wasn't the initial purpose of the rack and it is still not supposed to be solely a drum mangler, but rather a external sound processor for live sound and/or samples. What sparked the idea of using Ears for this purpose was this demo:
However If the contact mic+drum thing doesn't work we'll try something else and save that idea for later and then I will definitely consider getting a Kong!
You're going to be rather short on inputs if the idea here is to contact mic the entire kit. To do this optimally, EVERY drum needs to be fitted with a contact mic, each going to its individual preamp/envelope follower. Doing this with just one...well, if you're trying to create a single percussive effect device like a Syndrum or Clap Trap, that would be fine, but there's no decent way to make this work with a single Ears.
And for that matter, I don't think Ears is the right choice here. Something like Bastl's Kong, which is specifically designed for drum pickups like this and which also manages to cram two of the needed functions into 5 hp would be a far better choice.
A new single from our upcoming album is out now: https://wilderbeats.bandcamp.com/track/ryuichi
Track composed with modular synthesizer and Lyra 8. Hope you like it!
Me and a friend of mine are about to start a new experimental music project. The basic idea is that he’s gonna be playing drums and I'm going to use some contact mics to capture his playing and process it with my very-soon-to-be finished modular. Neither of us really know what we expect this to sound like, which is sort of the point. It will probably be noisy though.
I’m going for a pretty small setup to begin with, limiting myself to 84hp. Obviously this is never gonna be enough, but you gotta start somewhere. The modules in the rack are the ones I currently own, so there’s not a lot of room left. Only 14hp.
So, what do you suggest I fill the gap with?
I know I need an lfo and have had my eyes on the 2hp lfo v2 for some time. But I’m also considering a Peaks, seeing as it can do so many different things, is good value and the controls seem pretty straight forward.
sell;
Plaits 280 , DFAM 650 = 930
found sound
chords v2 469
maths 459
928
re: "veils is quite big for a quad"
saving space is not everything - playability is also inportant - I find larger modules easier to play
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities
Oh it also doesnt need to interface with VCV Rack, I did look at an ES-8 but I make better stuff with my actual hands than on the computer. What I meant was for playing stuff, I'm fine with that being on the PC with a Keystep.
get a quad vca (the one you have in the rack already seems ok, personally I'd go with veils)
-- JimHowell1970
Veils is big for a quad, I could get a Hexagram and have 6 VCAs for 2hp less. I was looking at the Malekko one which is 8hp, if I needed to squeeze something else in.
don't you want envelope and pitch following and gate extraction?!?
No, otherwise I'd get an Ears or something like that. I'm not looking to use the bass as something to control the system. I know you can set it up so you can do some really cool things, but for the type of stuff I do it's not relevant. Thank you for suggesting that though.
The intrfx has 3 channels, and I only have 4 pedals (2 of which are used together or not at all) so one will do me fine. It can do some fun feedback stuff as well. I'll only be using the bass at home, so permanently using up space for something that I can run outboard didnt seem like the way to go for me.
I'd want to go slowly and learn each module pretty well and how it interacts with other modules first
-- JimHowell1970
That's the plan, planning out a full system makes it easier for me to visualise and aim for something so I don't end up with random components.
I'll look into the Mantis for sure, I chose the mods because of the lower intial cost (about half the price of a Mantis) and because they'd be easier to carry around.
Thanks!
