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Much thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Helped clear things up a lot!

Your Ornaments & Crime has some possibilities for you. There's a Turing Machine mode built in with up to four outputs that can be quantized inside the machine. You can control it externally with the Maths module for convenience.

You can use the dual quantizer in O_C. Feed it an LFO or mix of LFOs attenuated by Maths or your A-138. You can trigger the quantizing via Pamela's New Workout running a Euclidean Rhythms pattern. Your Batumi can sync to a clock or reset from PNW, so the melody can be repeated.

In both cases, you're not having to come up with your own melodies but your system is generating them for you.

EDITED Feb 13th 2020, 23:29

I'll second that last bit from Ronin: split out your sequencing and control (and performance mixer...which you don't have YET) to open space for the stuff you missed. The present build has some good toys in it, but it's missing the "basics" that will allow them to really cut loose. Also, yeah, the module ordering/layout is really a mess; try grouping your functions together...generators, modifiers, modulators, controllers...and that will make for a more cohesive result, much easier to navigate.

BTW, this tale is a really good example of why I tell people to avoid the majority of synth videos on YouTube...at least, as a source of authoritative info. Remember: a lot of those are nothing more than commercials and the person waving the module at you and screeching about how AWESOME and INDISPENSABLE and [insert imperative adjective here] it is...well, they probably got the one they're waving around as an "accommodation", hence the added enthusiasm. But those things are designed to suck you in just as effectively as anything you'd see on TV for detergent or cars or deodorant or soda or or or...

You have 2 attenuverter with Maths (CH 2 and 3) so if you patch an LFO in one of these 2 channels you can attenuate the signal.

EDITED Feb 13th 2020, 22:40

Yes. It looks like you got a little bit of G.A.S. when picking out modules. No judgment. We all do it. But just looking over the rack briefly, this is what I'm picking up:

The rack seems weirdly organized. I'm trying to pick up on the logic of how things are organized. For me, I try to put like things together: oscillators, filters, effects, etc. I then try to organize the groups so things that are commonly patched together are in short reach of each other so I'm not patching cables from one end of the case to the other and then back again.

You bought some pretty specialized gear. But you're a bit light on some of the traditional "bread and butter" modules. Two true analog VCOs wouldn't be a bad thing in here. A pair of full ADSR envelope generators. A noise source and a sample and hold module. Those would be nice too. A four to six channel mixer would also be nice. Also, I didn't see any dedicated VCAs. It's hard to tell with a link to a picture of your rack rather than a link to the rack itself.

If you're not wanting to part with anything, I'd get a skiff and place your sequencing and control stuff in it. I'd then get some bread and butter modules and put them in the main rack as well.

Thank you Ronin!
And that's good, I also offer a bass drum

EDITED Feb 13th 2020, 23:04

Hi guys, well buying , buying stuff and now finally have my Eurorack case complete but as i am a little rookie here i am struggling to make some melodies and need some patch advice .

I do Techno and more minimal music

Also have a Beatstep pro that i use to start a session and its ok but i also need advice to make some nice movement etc. Dont get me wrong i have lfos etc and i patch it but sometimes its not very smooth

cheers

EDITED Feb 13th 2020, 18:59

Looks nice. I have a stereo Sir-Mix-A-Lot with six channels on it with an expansion port. This would be awesome for submixing drums.

Ronin—that makes a lot of sense, thanks. Tall Dog makes an 8hp O_C in silver that I've had my eye on—that would complement their uPlaits I've got in there. MD + Pam's + Steppy would give me plenty of sequencing capability to stay in the case.

Out of curiosity, what are some of your go-to modulation sources you enjoy alongside BIA?

-- aarontw

Just remember that Steppy and Pam's New Workout only offer triggers and gates... no pitch CV. Steppy allows for a lot of real time changes... Pam allows for more features and functionality. Plum Audio offers an Intellijel 1U version of Ornaments & Crime if you ever consider replacing the Steppy with something else. But being able to reconfigure your sequence on the fly is a powerful aspect of any type of sequencing.

2020 (PSU) 2020.02.13

Wanted to call this out for anyone who might be considering this one– I've just added the v2 of this mixer to my rack and am super happy with it; the size-to-feature ratio is fantastic and sound is very clean. It's the only mixer I could find at this hp with aux send/return, channel mutes and individual track panning. The creator was very helpful and friendly throughout the ordering process and receptive to suggestions. If it's got what you're looking for, I can't recommend it enough.

Ah, no, I'm not coming our of the modular direct, into a Yamaha MG8 mixer first. I need to experiment more, the audio I manage to record into the iphone is too quiet if plugging direct, it only gets loud enough via the iRig 2 adapter but then its just Mono.

Hi Arontwee,

I like your picture, it's good looking and especially your humour behind that is what I like: Do you really need that coaster? Does the rack/case get so hot? ;-)

Have fun with modular and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

Thx for the kind words, Garfield — ha, good eye ;-)
I like having a pad of some kind underneath my various instruments—in lieu of having a proper stand—so I can move them around on my (fairly crowded) desk and reconfigure as needed.

Cheers!

Ronin—that makes a lot of sense, thanks. Tall Dog makes an 8hp O_C in silver that I've had my eye on—that would complement their uPlaits I've got in there. MD + Pam's + Steppy would give me plenty of sequencing capability to stay in the case.

Out of curiosity, what are some of your go-to modulation sources you enjoy alongside BIA?

what kind of beautiful cool groovey sequence do you have while patches that don't get boring after hours of patching?

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

You are taking a direct output from Eurorack into your iPhone? If yes, then indeed that will be far too loud, ha, ha, Eurorack audio signals are at a much higher audio voltage level than normal audio lines. So get yourself a good audio interface module (for example the one from Intellijel) and that should solve your problem.

Keep up the good music but don't blow up your iPhone ;-) and kind regards, Garfield.

Edit: Removed typo.

EDITED Feb 12th 2020, 20:34

Hi Arontwee,

I like your picture, it's good looking and especially your humour behind that is what I like: Do you really need that coaster? Does the rack/case get so hot? ;-)

Have fun with modular and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks for the feedback & ideas, Ronin!

I hear you re: Maths—and get the appeal of a stay-in-the-case system. The current setup is a bit limited in being able to easily create melodic sequences internally. I could do some row rotation sequencing w/ Pam's and send that cv to the mk4 in a quantizer mode—that ties up two key modules pretty well, though.

I'm a fan of Mimetic Digitalis and its approach to cv sequencing—can I get by without using a quantizer with it? I believe it can do semitones. And any other compact cv sequencers that you'd consider for pitch sequencing?

I'd have another 10hp slot for one module to work with after that—the palette allows up to 12 modules, so that'd rule out an 8hp O_C AND a 2hp module. There is the Blue Lantern O_C at 10hp—though, I am tempted to get a Basimilus Iteritas Alter (10hp) in that slot ;-)
-- aarontw

It doesn't strictly adhere to pitch and definitely not to scale (apart from chromatic). The Mk4 does have a quantizer. But then you're tying up that module. That's why I recommended the O_C as well (dual quantizer onboard)... and get the one that is 8HP. Smaller is better.

The Basimilus Iteritas is okay. I own one. But it doesn't really play well with others and requires a ton of modulation sources to really get it to 'sing'. So it might not be a great module for a small case unless you're featuring it.

EDITED Feb 12th 2020, 19:23

Thanks for the feedback & ideas, Ronin!

I hear you re: Maths—and get the appeal of a stay-in-the-case system. The current setup is a bit limited in being able to easily create melodic sequences internally. I could do some row rotation sequencing w/ Pam's and send that cv to the mk4 in a quantizer mode—that ties up two key modules pretty well, though.

I'm a fan of Mimetic Digitalis and its approach to cv sequencing—can I get by without using a quantizer with it? I believe it can do semitones. And any other compact cv sequencers that you'd consider for pitch sequencing?

I'd have another 10hp slot for one module to work with after that—the palette allows up to 12 modules, so that'd rule out an 8hp O_C AND a 2hp module. There is the Blue Lantern O_C at 10hp—though, I am tempted to get a Basimilus Iteritas Alter (10hp) in that slot ;-)

Recently bought modules from @loopspool @dunk and @fredeke
Nice contacts and smooth transactions. All recommended sellers.

Kabler:
378881 2x the sssnake DD1060 (thomann)
378880 4x the sssnake DD1030 (thomann)

5 x 5ocm (gul) stackable cables Tiptop (Gear4Music)
Erica Synths Eurorack Patch Cables 10cm 5 pieces Red (g4m)
Erica Synths Eurorack Patch Cables 20cm 5 pieces Black (g4m)

tnp (sammenlign g4m, juno.co.uk og schneiders - andre?):
flame c3 mkII
happy nerding 3xmia
nebulae v2

EDITED Feb 12th 2020, 23:30

Thats waaay too kind, but thanks :) At the moment I'm finding getting Stereo audio into the iPhone in a loud enough state harder than it should be. I can get mono in via an iRig 2 adapter that is meant for a Guitar, but as far as i can tell it always comes out as Mono cos of the standard 1/4" Guitar jack socket. I never seem to get a loud-enough recording direct from my mixer without the iRig's pre-amp. I dare say I just need to learn more!

EDITED Feb 12th 2020, 08:00

My own personal tastes would be wanting a little more in on-board sequencing so that I can stay-in-the-case as much as possible. I find sequencing via the computer to really pull me out of my hardware zone.

I like Maths. But for the size of this case... it's just too big. You already have the Pip Slope for an AD envelope and the Joranalogue for mixing/VCAs.

I would ditch the Maths and replace it with a Mimetic Digitalis (10HP) and an micro Ornaments & Crime (8HP) and then find a 2HP module of your choosing... maybe a reverb or delay so the Disting isn't always on effects duty.

Agreed on the "module porn"...this has a long way to go before being properly functional. Also, putting a cased/powered synth into yet another case with power is an expensive mistake. If you take the cost of the Doepfer 3 x 168 ($1218 at Sweetwater currently), each hp space costs about $2.40...meaning that your 60 hp M32 costs an extra $145-ish to house in the Doepfer cab. Now, the current street price for the M32 is $649...which, once you add it up, means you'd be paying $794 en toto for it. Doesn't sound like a good deal to me...

Ronin is also quite spot-on on the size of this thing. True, it's convenient to have about 500 hp to build into, but try to NOT fill it up immediately. Fill one row, maybe two, but leave the third (or such) open for expansion, because as you start to work with a "reduced" version of this, you WILL get new/different ideas that need that space. And try and up your functionality per space; for instance, the Erica Black VCA v.2 is 10 hp wide, with one VCA. But if you can move up to a 12 hp space, then you can put in an Intellijel Quad VCA...and four VCAs are MUCH better than one! Especially with a mixer as part of the module. Another example: three buffered mults, but only two VCOs. You really only need one of those, and then only when you're trying to drive more than four (ish) modules with the same CV. Jettison those, and you get back 12 hp. And so on...

I'd suggest stepping back for a hot minute, taking a few deep breaths, and collecting your wits before getting DEEP into some study of similar builds by experienced synthesists on here. You'll know which ones I mean, as they tend to have less in the way of "sexy" modules and a bunch of things that seem boring and pointless (but which aren't!) like attenuators, VCAs, basic mixers, etc. In other words, they're INSTRUMENTS...not light shows. If you're going to drop a wad on something like the above, it's best to know how to drop that wad effectively.

Hey Wishbonebrewery,

Yeah, finally a new track from you ;-) As good as ever, I like that plinky-plonky stuff all right. Don't worry about that still photo, I like it, while listening at your music I have nice sweet time to look at your gear so I don't mind the fact you don't have a video. At the end it's about the music!

And music it is! I am still amazed how you come to these kind of results with relatively less modules. Nice job and I look forward in hearing your next track :-D

Kind regards, Garfield.

My votes here go for Superbooth and Knobcon...basically, the synth Big Shows for Europe and N. America. They tend to be both trade shows and huge meets for the enthusiasts, whereas NAMM is purely a trade show. Synthplex is a bit more of an enthusiast gathering, but they also have a lot of vendor/manufacturer sales at the event as well.

Hi Ronin1973,

How about the Superbooth 2020 in Berlin in April? ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi LutZek,

There are multiple conventions around the world that deal in synthesizer design. You'll find many manufacturers displaying their latest modules, synths, and ideas. You'll also find plenty of users and enthusiasts there as well. I would try to attend a couple of these if I was in your shoes. You'd probably have a lot of fun regardless... because the manufacturers love to talk about electronics!

Some upcoming examples are:
Synthplex 2020
NAMM 2020
Knobcon 2020

Here's a link to get you started:
http://www.vintagesynth.com/articles/biggest-music-conventions-around-world-synthesizer-enthusiasts

Once you acquire knowledge of the dark arts, you'll look back at this build and laugh. It looks nice. But there's no reason to build a system based on one manufacturer. Once you've developed a taste, you'll select modules that YOU like regardless of who makes it.

Start off small and functional. A semi-modular synth like the Mother 32 isn't a bad choice. Then add a skiff or a small case to it with some modules that compliment the Mother 32. You may even eventually outgrow the Mother 32 and that's fine. Just remember you'll be learning as you go... so don't go hog wild at first.

You won't get any serious comments on this build since it's basically module porn.

This one didn't turn out too bad...

"Yeah its a still photo again with a piece of audio behind it! Its all the things in the photo that are making the sounds, Eurorack Synth is all the plinky plonky stuff, then the Roland boutique SH01 is on the sort of noise-wash and the TB03 is firing off (both the boutiques are manually tweaked). Kinda Ambient generative from the Eurorack, as much modulation as my gear will allow, Noise Engineering Clep Diaz playing a blinder in LFO mode, going through 2hp Tune, 2hp Pluck and Bell, Disting on Stereo Tape Delay is a bit nice, Erica PICO DSP and 2hp Verb are the other effects, using the Mutable instruments Veils as a slightly modulated mixer with some slight effects feedback loops. Things brought in and out with the Befaco STmix. Pretty happy with this for a few mins of noodling, time to pull all the plugs ;-) Let me know what you think."

Next purchase is going to be a Monsoon Clouds, then just maybe a Instruo/DivKid Ochd, though almost definitely another source of modulation.

I’m new to EuroRack, I really like Erica Synths sounds so I picked a lot of their stuff. My main question for the pros out there, is this a solid rig? Am I missing anything? I plan on putting this in a Doepfer Case the A-100 (168u x 3 rows). Drones on the top, drums and bass lower right and moog for melodies. I’m into DooM style evil computer type of stuff. I’ll probably name it the Doom Machine lol. If anyone got advice that be great, I would start off with the Mother 32 obviously if I decide to do this. I really want to do this but I know this is gonna be years before it’s done.

Thanks for the input Ronin and Lugia. Those are great points, especially considering I am building this to play live...well just to myself in headphones. I'm only learning.

The grandmother has a modular level output, so it doesn't need to be preamped.

To expand a bit on Ronin...this is a situation where a suitable mixer is pretty essential. Instead of looking at them as a way to combine audio together, look at a performance mixer as a control point where you have several "instrument" patches like the above already prepatched and ready to shift from one to another by bringing channels in and out. This avoids your having to repatch constantly, makes the above concept work for both studio AND live.

However, I have some concerns about the size of the build. To get the above idea to work really well, you'll need to have space for a proper performance mixer, for a few extra modules (notably attenuverters...you can wring a lot of control power out of 'em, even if they're boring and unsexy) to assist in controlling activity in the subpatches, logic and timing modules to complicate the trigger/gate situation, and so on. It's an ambitious idea...but the fact is that 2 x 104 cabs are easy to get and cheap (often as cheap as some higher-end 1 x 104s), or you can add a bit more potential with a 7U cab that gives you some tiles and, potentially, cab integration if you go with Intellijel's 7U 104 hp case.

One last warning...don't think you'll be able to send the Moog's line output back into the Eurorack mixer directly, because you likely won't get a usable result due to the major voltage differences. It either has to be preamped first...or just don't do that, and mix it as per usual along with the modular on a typical small mixer. The latter is cheaper, fyi.

OK, let's answer the easy bits first...no, you can't control the response curve with a modulation signal. But then, that's not a really common musical usage, so you're not likely to need all four of the VCAs implemented in that way. But the response curves DO control response rate...

The difference between linear and exponential, math-wise, is the difference between 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 1, 4, 9, 16, 25. Very related (the second is simply the squares of the first) but not the same, function-wise. When translated to loudness, attack/decay values in linear VCAs rise and fall with a direct, linear relationship to the CV. Go up a volt with your CV, the output of the VCA goes up a volt. But with exponential VCAs, attacks and decays occur more abruptly...at least, as far as a voltmeter is concerned. Since we're talking human hearing here, though, the exponential response of the VCA is a closer match to how our hearing perceives the attack and decay of acoustical instruments, while the linear VCA would just sound like turning a knob up and down UNLESS it's fed with an exponential modulation signal source, such as an exponential envelope gen. So, when you change the response, you're adjusting this factor from the linear relationship to an exponential one, and thence everything in between. Now, why you would adjust this...OK, consider percussion instruments for a sec...

Take a drum...any drum is fine. Hit it with a stick, which gives you the hardest attack. Now a rubber mallet. Then a yarn one. And after that, a soft mallet (the fluffy sort). This is the sort of result you get from turning the response on a VCA from exponential (hard attack, fast decay) to linear (soft attack, easier decay). It's an odd effect, and while some VCAs can do that under CV, most don't. But if you really need this effect, it's actually simpler to send the VCA a modulation signal from a mod source that allows you to shape ITS curve.

Now, as for the Intellijel module...yes, it can act as a mixer. Or two mixers. Or a mixer and a VCA (or two). Or four VCAs. It all depends on how the OUTPUT is patched.

Since the Quad VCA uses an normalized but interruptible mixbus, you can patch an output from OUT 2 and also 4/MIX, and this would give you a pair of 2-input mixers. Or if you need just a single VCA for a certain function, you can take VCA 1's output alone, and then use the 4/MIX output for the sum of the other three VCAs. This is VERY useful if, for example, you have only a couple of audio sources that need summing, but you want some interesting modulation behavior that goes to some other parts of the rig. For that, you'd split out the first two VCAs via their dedicated OUTs, then use 4/MIX as a sum for the audio coming into IN 3 and IN 4. And, since you can change the VCA response, VCAs 1 and 2 in that example can be set to function linearly, while the audio in 3 and 4 can have the necessary exponential response. Versteh'?

It's also worth noting that the Quad VCAs CV inputs work in a similar manner. You have a normalized mult behind the panel (of sorts), so sending a single CV to the top of the input bus will affect all four VCAs simultaneously. But you can also patch different CV/mod signals in with the same sort of arrangement as you find on the module's mixbus. Just remember that these patchpoints have a "priority" to their mult behavior: bottom to top on the CV inputs, right to left on the mix, and any patchcord inserted at the lower/leftmost points will split the mult. Want the same CV on 3 and 4, but not 1 and 2? Simple...send 1 and 2 their own CVs, and send the paired 3/4 a single CV via VCA 3's CV in. Done!

Oh...also, keep in mind you don't have to mix ONLY audio with this (or any other DC-coupled mixer). You can also create complex, composited modulation curves by mixing mod and/or CV signals, and yes, these can also be under VCA control to gradually change voltage levels at the output. This is where the fun starts...

Better?

EDITED Feb 10th 2020, 22:05

Hi Lugia
I sincerely cannot thank you enough for taking the time to post the above priceless advices!
That brought notions i didn’t have and enlarge the scope of my research! Thank you!

I have few more questions which hopefully you know the answers to or guide me if thats ok?

Re vca & specially the intellijel quad vca.
Watching their video on module, tthe presenter goes on about tge fact that it can also serve as a mixer! Which in my modest 84hp would be a godsend it terms of space/functionality ratio.
But can it be a vca & mixer at the time or if cv plugged in, there is a chain or priority order (for lack of better terminology i have) where then ouput 1 for instance will be subject to the vca? I hope i am making sense??

Secondly do the curve knobs control how quick or fast the modulation occurs? (Sorry if this is a silly question)
Could i potentially control this curve with an
Lfo? I cannot picture the cable mapping to do this

Thank you for your time again

You might want to consider a dedicated mixing module. I would start with that and then add in other modules. I would suggest something with a stereo output as well as line level outputs. Trying to find a way to adhoc signals together with each and every patch is going to be difficult and cut into your creativity. Getting signal to a dedicated mixer will be much easier on you creatively.

This is why I never buy used gear online without some sort of intermediary agency, such as eBay or Reverb. In those cases, if you wind up dealing with a "bad actor", the company in the middle can (usually!) sort things out.
-- Lugia

It's a good practice. That's why I like the thread where you can leave feedback on people with GOOD trading habits. I spent over $500 getting two modules built by a guy on this site. I left positive feedback and would recommend him to others.

Well, if there's no brick-and-mortar dealers where you are, there's still ample ways to see what a module does aside of VCV.

First up, many of the MG listings have links to manufacturers, and they have rather detailed info a bit beyond what MG can do, plus some also have VIDEOS via YouTube. These are videos I 100% endorse, as you'll have the designers explaining the functions, tricks, etc of particular modules.

Also, check major dealers such as Perfect Circuit, Schneider's, et al as they also offer content on modules and systems that can be very useful. Stick with the modular-specific dealers, though; while "big guns" such as Sweetwater, Thomann, etc do carry modular gear, informationally you're better off with specialist dealers who know modular first.

A third possibility is to just ask manufacturers a question or two outright if the above two methods aren't getting you the info you want. But before doing this step, check their sites to see if they have user manuals available online. Many manufacturers do provide these in various forms, so it's worth taking a look.

VCV is good for explaining functions in modular synthesis and there's a few modules that DO emulate hardware there, but for the most part VCV isn't the best reference for hardware shopping. It'll give you an idea of what might work for you, but there ARE dissimilarities.

Now, as for VCAs...it's important to remember that there are TWO different kinds of VCAs, and they have two different purposes...

Linear VCAs, which are usually DC-coupled to allow CVs and modulation signals to pass, are for controlling/automating levels of those two types of signals. You CAN use linear VCAs for audio as well, but keep in mind that our hearing perceives apparent loudness as an exponential factor, so linear VCAs will just give a basic up and down to audio voltage levels but not an accurate volume increase/decrease.

To get accurate shifts in VOLUME...you use exponential VCAs. These have a response curve that fits how we hear sound better, because that curve tends to track our Fletcher-Munson responses whereas the linear VCAs are...well, linear in response. Also, exponential VCAs tend to be AC-coupled to prevent DC signals (such as modulation, CVs, etc) from passing. And this is important, as DC sent to an amplifier is not a good thing, and can lead to damage to the amp, your monitors, or both!

Now, there IS a "third" type of VCA, and it's those which can switch between these modes of operation. Some are simpler to use, like Malekko's Dual VCAs, where you have a switch between the two types. But others are more subtle, like the Mutable Veils or the Intellijel Quad VCA, both of which have a circuit that allows you to "tune" the VCA response to any sort of curve between pure linear and fully-exponential. These are useful...but it's important to remember that these modules are designed for both audio AND CV/mod use, ergo there won't be AC-coupling there.

BUT...it IS possible to block DC in other ways, with the very best being transformer isolation and balancing on your outputs. This not only stops DC at the very end of the modular signal chain, but it also isolates the modular from garbage that might be INcoming on your output lines, such as AC ground looping, RF crud, and other types of noise which, yes, can get in via the OUTput and be problematic. Lastly, these modules also drop your modular voltage levels back down to line-level which helps prevent overloading issues at the mixer. Happy Nerding's Isolator is a good choice here...it's small and cheap, but provides all the above plus ground lifts per channel and a master stereo level for your output. Very, VERY useful. And, also, a good example of how you can deal with one module's shortcomings with another strategically-placed module elsewhere in the system.

Kabler:
378881 2x the sssnake DD1060 (thomann)
378880 4x the sssnake DD1030 (thomann)
5 x 5ocm (gul) stackable cables Tiptop (Gear4Music)

tnp (sammenlign g4m, juno.co.uk og schneiders - andre?):
flame c3 mkII
happy nerding 3xmia
nebulae v2

EDITED Feb 10th 2020, 19:10

As I think someone on here mentioned, the Stereo Tape Delay on the Disting is rather nice :)

Hi GarfieldModular,

Thank you for your valuable feedback, you helped me a lot! :). And thank you for spending time on open questions, I appreciate it. I'll contact you in PM

Leszek

Just in case this would save you a few HP https://zlobmodular.com/product/vnicursal-vca/ even if it does look a little like turning those knobs may summon the evil hoards!

Hi Lugia & Garfieldmodular

Thank you both very much for taking the time to respond. Your inputs are so valuable to me.
Thanks for clarifying the mult purpose, i have a better idea now.
As for the vca, yes i am taking this in account for my ongoing build. Having read on this (unless i misunderstood) i picture vca as the equivalent of automations in a DAW, create variations which if i picture right i feel is indeed necessary to bring a rack to life with ‘movements’

On note, I am considering the intellijel quad vca, but must do a bit of research as i would like to maximise hp size vs functionality.
But are there any brands that you would recommend over intellijel? Size?

Yes Lugia you are 100% right in respect to what work for some might not for others. So i am definitely taking the time to learn the few modules i am getting .
Unfortunately i do not have dealers with showroom in the country i am living in..my only way is using vcv!

As for the mixers, the only thing i can think of is size constraints.. but not the builder so it’s just a guess.

Thank you again for taking the time to respond and provide your thoughts on this topic, it does help me a lot!

Hi GregSilvia / Jays,

Well about those mixers that was exactly my point, I don't understand it, so for me, if it would be my rack, it would not be okay. But for the original designer of this rack it's most probably okay. Since I haven't designed that rack, I really can't tell you why those particular mixer modules are in there.

That's exactly one of my points why you shouldn't take somebody's rack design and start with that because you/me/we just don't know what were the thoughts, the ideas and the design principles behind that to come with the rack just like that.

On the other hand there is nothing against it to use somebody's rack and take that as a starting point but I doubt if that's the road you should go. It's up to you of course but I wouldn't do it like that :-)

Please keep in mind the good advice of Lugia as well, he got a few very good points there.

Try to discover for yourself what you want and need. Did you went to a dealer and tried out a few modules, testing them, playing with them? If yes that should give you already a rough indication of where you would like to head at, if you haven't yet, I would strongly advice to go to your (future) dealer and play a bit around with a few modules. Just to get the first practice, experience and impressions and then I think it becomes already a bit easier and clearer where to go along this modular path.

Good luck and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Lutzek,

I filled in your survey and if you have questions or like to discuss something you can do that either here or send me a private message.

Good luck with your interesting project, keep us up to date with your results (as soon as you got a first module, please introduce it here) and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Finally, justice prevails. Refunded today. Paypal covered it. Took almost a month and 3 calls. (Paypal's customer service is pretty good).

I hope Paypal sues his PoS ass.

The scammer's supposed name is Ahn Durr, username ambientandambience.

And of course he left me bad feedback...

Case closed

EDITED Feb 7th 2020, 23:10

Buffered mults are more like "insurance" these days. They exist because, in past designs, there could be a certain amount of "voltage sag". Much of this was due to bad exponential converter design and/or lower-quality components, but these days many designers have front ends on their fixed CV conversion that minimizes this issue. But notice I said "minimizes"...it doesn't 100% fix it, as you can pile enough destinations for CVs onto the same CV bus that the destination modules will mistrack just like the "bad old days".

Rule of thumb: if you're splitting a CV with a mult that then goes to more than four other modules, you're probably better off using a buffered mult. Even if all of the modules on that bus have really good CV sag figures, if you stack enough of them on that one CV, you'll still be subject to sag eventually.

As for the VCAs...OK, sure, that one user in their YT video doesn't really have them in evidence. And while that approach might work for THEM, it's probably not a good idea. It sounds fine in this example, but let's say you wanted to do something that required both VCA control over audio levels AND over modulation levels. Now you have a problem. It might be nice for some synthesists to have a dedicated cab for a specific sound production method, but the vast majority of us don't have that luxury, and so we recognize that you have to have bread-and-butter modules such as VCAs for the times you might want them. And they are QUITE necessary...boring, yes, but essential. Building a rig without VCAs because they're "boring" and nowhere as snazzy as all those other modules with the blinkylights is sort of akin to building a car without a radiator. Radiators are boring, they just dissipate heat...but just try driving a car that doesn't have one but which does have a water cooled engine. You won't be going very far.

And a word about YouTube as a method of learning modular synthesis...

It needs to be said that there are a few synthesists on YT who absolutely know what they're doing. 100%. But like any other source of information on the Internet, there's also a lot of utter BS and nonsense out there, plus a lot of stuff that's sort of misleading. And this is a case of the latter; clearly, whoever is in the clip is experienced...and what they're using works for their purposes. But this DOES NOT mean that a copy of their rig will be something usable in the hands of someone beginning with modular synths. They have an approach that works, but it's not one that will result in a modular rig that's usable across a wide range of uses.

So, unless you like blowing through a lot of money and experiencing plenty of frustration, it's essential to be very careful about what sources of info are ones that'll work for your specific situation. A much better approach would be to look at a number of builds by a lot of different synthesists and see what elements you encounter that work for you and those which are dead-ends. And one of the biggest dead-ends is to copy a user's bespoke device, built for their techniques and methods alone. Those builds might make for showy YT clips, but they don't help beginning modular users.

For pitch CV it is suggested to use buffered mult but I never noticed a difference using tiptop stackable for splitting pitch cv.

Patching a clock generator into Steppy would work as far as syncing Steppy to a clock. But you have to understand what type of sequencer Steppy actually is. It sends out triggers/gates. Triggers and gates serve very well for percussion or triggering envelope generators. But they contain no information about pitch.

So you would need a sequencer that sends out both triggers/gates AND pitch (CV). Steppy can be part of a note generating set-up... like triggering a sample-and-hold circuit being fed an LFO or random source and then maybe into a quantizer. But that's a little bit beyond the scope of someone coming in at entry level.

I don't want to recommend anything at this point as I don't know what would suit your needs. What a rack needs to function depends on exactly what you want to do with it... which is always debatable.

But in VCV Rack, I would start with:
2 VCOs
1 filter (usually low-pass)
2 ADSRs
2 dual VCA modules (4 VCAs total)
2 Mixers
1 LFO
1 Noise Generator (white, pink)
1 8 or 16 step sequencer
and of course the output module so you can hear it.

Not every patch is going to use all of the things listed. But that's a very basic traditional monosynth set-up. You can get into other module types from there and see what you like as you learn.