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Hello everybody,

I like taking inspiration from existing systems to decide how I should expand my own. I have an 84hp case and modify my setup regularly, taking from my box of modules (which has been growing with time) to suite my needs of the moment. But I've recently come to the thought that I would prefer to have all my modules in a bigger case to avoid all that (un)screwing and plugging of modules. The current state of my case is the one below, only the first row is "real", modules currently plugged are in the first row, and those in the box are on the second row:

I've been looking to many systems and the the setup that seems the most interesting to me at the moment is from the VST synth called Aalto by Madrona Labs, and so I was thinking it could be a cool idea to try to recreate it in eurorack format. The great surprise is that it does not necessitate buying many more modules than the ones I already have, only a Mimeophon, a 2hp Verb, and a 68hp case. This is what I'm considering:

What do you think of this setup? What would you add or change? What do you think I am missing?

EDITED Sep 16th 2020, 13:54

What Jim said :)

Use Bitraizer as optional LFO - clock sync?

most vcas with knobs have attenuators built in - doesn't necessarily mean you don't need attenuators too

for example - clouds cv ins benefit massively from attenuation - so I always want attenuators for clouds - do I always want to take up 2-4 of my vcas (some of which have attneuators) for this purpose? no

the same with sending modulation to my cv->midiCC converter - I need a lot of attenuation, but not necessarily VC Attenuation

the same with regular audio level modulation to lzx video modules - that use 0-1v - I need attenuation not necessarily VC Attenuation

in all these cases passive attenuators work perfectly well and are much cheaper than VCAs

Another option is to buy a prebuilt system that comes with the sound, modulation and utility support modules as well as the case/power for learning purposes. Some good ones are:

Doepfer A100 Basic System- this is how I started my modular journey and comes with all key basics like VCA, mixer, etc.
Erica Synths Black System- lots of great modules plus CV tools and mixer
ALM Busy Circuits System Coupe- this one just came out and looks like a fun modular jam station with sampler and goodies.
Make Noise Shared System Plus- west coast off the beat modular with tons of great all star modules like Maths and Rene
Endorphin.es Shuttle System- another funky west coast modular system.

I do recommend the free VCV Rack software, I still use it for trying route options out.

Was messing around trying to find some good acid textures and got distracted by this weird thing and thought I'd roll with it, happy accidents as they say!

https://stevehand.bandcamp.com/track/tuesday-lullaby

Made with:

I have Korg SQ-1 and Make Noise 0-ctrl for sequencers as well as Elektron Analog 4. But thinking long term of a rack for sequencers and FX like this:

I plan to add 2-3 more voices to the setup and remove the clock and sequencer for space purposes. Something like this as update

Thoughts? By the way, did you know that the Befaco HexVCA has attenuators built in? That eliminates the need to add additional ones.

How are you planning to control this? Aside from the lack of sequencing, the only potential issue I see is the lack of attenuators... maybe replace the scope with another mix/attenuator module (there are a million out there... Shades, Triatt, and on and on). Also not sure you need two filters, in a system with only two oscillators (not counting the drums).

LOL @GarfieldModular, I think that's a great idea, not to mention frogs are big mosquito munchers, good friends from my POV 🐸

Hi everyone,

Currently I have been using Varigate 4+, Korg SQ-1, and Make Noise 0-ctrl as modular sequencers. While they are functional, they lack the precision and control that I want for creating drum, bass and lead beats. What would be a good clock and modular sequencer that does not take up 40+ HP of space and does not cost a small fortune? I looked at Hermod, Eloquencer and 512 vector. Vector is super expensive and without the expander only has 2 cv/gate inputs/outputs which is weak. For clock, I am considering Shakmat Clock O'Pawn or Pamela's New Workout.

Hi Jingo and Troux,

Jingo: Thanks Jingo! I am glad to hear you liked them :-)

Troux: Strange, in the E-mail notification from this forum, your link works. He, he, quite some interesting sounds these frogs make and... not bad sounds at all to use in some of the possible future tracks... makes me think... Do I need to make a pond in my backyard and get some frogs in there? At the risk of getting complains of the neighbours but having some good frog-sound-samples? Difficult decision ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Exposure,

He, he, yeah it's one hell of a crazy space frog that is ;-) Thank you!

In this track I am kind of testing my "percussion", it's the Vermona - DRM1 - Mk III with trigger inputs. I wanted to wait till the Endorphin.es - Ground Control becomes available however after having waited for more than a year for the Ground Control and I got that DRM1 already for a few months now... I just couldn't wait any longer...

I kind of tested it with EGs and LFOs instead of using a real sequencer. Okay, I have to admit for the handclap I used the Centrevillage - C Quencer DLX sequencer, nice and interesting sequencer that is by the way, there is a fill knob where you can define how the 16 steps are being filled up (not extremely flexible but still nicely done), nice for live performances; nice if you want to get quickly some changes to keep it interesting, though I didn't use that knob during this track, I predefined it instead.

Well a good point you got there and that's why it took me 3 takes (and still not 100% happy ;-) ) before I was kind of willing to "release" this track (so what you hear here is the 3rd take/try). I do a bit of a mixture of what you are saying. I have now quite a few patches going on (it slowly grows and progresses) on my modular synth and try to keep them as long as possible, to "keep/save the sounds as long as possible" :-) Once I have enough of it, either finished the (test-) recording or just had enough of it, I remove all the cables and then it's bye-bye to this configuration that perhaps I could partly reproduce but this one I am not really going to write down, no. With the first ("real" and not demo) track I released, there I wrote down a few notes but I am afraid that would not be enough to get me the exact sounds back.

Well that's it with modular synths right? They forgot to think about a save button, so once you "cleared" your system, your patch is gone forever unless you have a very good memory or unless you are really willing to write down all the details, which I am not :-)

Thanks a lot for listening and your feedback and kind regards, Garfield.

Hey Garfield,

even if these are just demos, I just had a lot of fun listening to them. They made me forget everything around me and dive into another sphere :). So, my pleasure on your behalf :)! Thanks a lot!

Best,
jingo

Hi Jingo,

Ha, ha, thanks a lot for your kind words, much appreciated :-) But please keep in mind these are not really my music or rather noise tracks, just some try outs on some modules I am currently having a lot of fun with, testing and trying them out. So the last two tracks you saw/heard from me are rather demo tracks (of the indicated modules) then anything else. However and indeed, I had a lot of fun playing around with those!

Thank you and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Baltergeist and Troux,

Troux: Thanks a lot for that link to the Cocoquantus, an interesting device that is! :-)

Baltergeist: Wow, another nice demo with the Cocoquantus. That really gives a nice and interesting touch to your music. Whatever you sell, don't sell that one :-)

Thank you both and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Troux,

Ha, ha, no this whole frog thing is rather for fun. Pity, I am not able to use your provided link, did you made perhaps somewhere a typo in that URL?

Kind regards, Garfield.

kinks is not a matrix mixer - it's a rectifier/logic/sample and hold in 4hp - really useful for modifying modulation

matrix mixers on the other hand are really useful because: you can mix together n inputs to x outputs and lend themselves very well to feedback patching - patch one of the outputs back into one of the inputs - again adds variety to modulation

NP - have you checked out the maths illustrated manual - even if it doesn't inspire you to buy a maths, it may inspire some patching of the quadrapol/Delta-v combo!

I just had another look -

again - kinks and a matrix mixer (AISynthesis do a reasonably priced, reasonably sized one) will massively expand your modulation capabilities for a reasonable price

I'd probably also want some more audio mixing options - I see a 2hp mix for submixing the drums and a unity for audio and the quadrapol/delta-v for cv, but it doesn't really seem to be enough - maybe a quad cascading vca such as veils or intellijel
-- JimHowell1970

Hello again,

I've never heard about that illustrated manual but I just found a document by Demonam and the format looks very interesting.

TBH, I don't know how Kinks or any other matrix mixer be useful.

I will check both thoroughly over the weekend.

OTAH, for submixing, I almost always used quadraPol but if I follow your suggestions and use quadraPol/Delta-V combo to make function generators, I may need another submixer at some point.

Thanks for the tips, gonna keep you updated.

Best,
Sina

Well done! that frog gets really crazy towards the end of the track, and the percussion is fantastic too, what are you using?

Since you're not using a DAW and you have to redo the entire track if you want to change it, how are you dealing with the patch? do you leave it patched until 100% happy with the track or do you take notes so you can patch it again?

Anyway, great work on this track!

Heya,

as I can see and hear :)_, you start to release your tracks! I am excited and definitely like to listen to more stuff from your musical veins! Keep it up!

Best,
jingo

Here's another Cocoquantus noodle, this time with a loop of my bağlama, along with a little fretless bass, Tetrax, and Subharmonicon. Copious use of pedals - Meet Maude, a little Charlie Foxtrot, some Shallow Water, I think, and Avalanche Run. I might have used Randy's Revenge on the Tetrax.

EDITED Sep 15th 2020, 14:59

My pleasure, always happy to spread the good word about NLC! Andrew is a gent!

Great recommendations, thank you @baltergeist.

Triple Sloths, Ian Fritz's Hypster (slow chaotic modulation, and fast chaotic modulation - up to audio rates) - both are must-haves, in my opinion. The 8-Bit Cipher is GREAT for off-kilter rhythms, I love pinging Sisters with it. Though I don't have one, I hear the Plague of Demons VCO is excellent. Those are where I'd start.

Yep @baltergeist, it's a fair point. Lots of turmoil in the world at the moment. Totally agreed on Turkey though, incredible country at its core.

Re: Nonlinear Circuits, I keep looking at their modules and haven't pulled the trigger on one yet. Any recommendations? What's your favorite, or what would be most interesting?

@GarfieldModular, saw this today and thought of you, if you really wanna get serious about frogs! http://www.fonozoo.com/fnz_ranas_mundo2_eng.php

Thank you both! Yes, this was made with Ciat-Lonbarde instruments. They're banana-patchable stand-alone instruments rather than eurorack. I just picked up a Plumbutter and I'm looking forward to getting to know it too. I've actually sold most of my eurorack modules. I still have three of the small Doepfer cases that I use in conjunction with the C-L instruments, and a larger Pittsburgh rack where I keep the rest of what I haven't sold yet (can't seem to let go of my Nonlinear Circuits modules, those have their hooks in me).

I haven't been back to Nevşehir since I visited between high school and college almost thirty years ago. I loved Cappadocia, hell, I loved everywhere I went in Turkey. I want to go back, but I don't know when that will be possible, or advisable, at this point.

Great piece @baltergeist, and Nevşehir's a cool town too, visited in like 2010 I think. The drones in the background are especially nice. Kudos.

@GarfieldModular, Coquantus is made by Ciat Lonbarde, so it's not a Eurorack synth. You can learn more here: http://ciat-lonbarde.net/cocoquantus/

NP - have you checked out the maths illustrated manual - even if it doesn't inspire you to buy a maths, it may inspire some patching of the quadrapol/Delta-v combo!

I just had another look -

again - kinks and a matrix mixer (AISynthesis do a reasonably priced, reasonably sized one) will massively expand your modulation capabilities for a reasonable price

I'd probably also want some more audio mixing options - I see a 2hp mix for submixing the drums and a unity for audio and the quadrapol/delta-v for cv, but it doesn't really seem to be enough - maybe a quad cascading vca such as veils or intellijel

Hi Baltergeist,

Wow, this is very intriguing and special! The music is so special and at the same time builds up quite some excitement, listening it again now and for sure will have to listen a few more times to enjoy it to the full :-)

That anti-rhythm is indeed quite nice too. I can't find Cocoquantus here in the modules section, what's the exact brand name and model name?

Thanks a lot for this little jewel and kind regards, Garfield.

yeah - it's small, inexpensive, has 3 functions - if you have stackcables or enough mults, you can patch it to get 7 different, but related modulation outputs from a single modulation source

it's similar with matrix mixers - put mult x modulation sources in get x more related modulation outputs

once you've got a few modulation sources - things like these and cascading vcas, switches etc are generally less expensive for getting more out of them than getting more modulation sources and will lead to more interesting modulation -that's not to say never get any more modulation sources - it's more: there are other ways, as there almost always are in modular

Thanks Steve :-)

thoughts

weird size rack - I count 94 - and with an intellijel 1u? unusual but not impossible - unless you are using the intellijel cases 1u modules designed to connect to points in the intellijel cases are pointless - check the 1u - at least some of them are specifically designed to work with intellijel cases!!!

I think you are adding too many large functional modules (specifically sound generation and processing and modulation generation) and not enough utility - which is where you need to concentrate in order to make this more than a single patch wonder - not enough possibilities for the multing, modifying and combining of control voltages, no where near enough vcas

For the number of sound generators and modifiers you have, though I don't think you have enough modulation - take out the furmana and add kinks and a matrix mixer

How are you sequencing?

How are you mixing?

Personally I would abandon the concept of planning a modular at this stage in your journey

I would simply get as big a case as you can (Mantis is good, or whatever this is if you really want the 1u) a single sound source, a single modulation source, a single sound modifier, a way to listen and a way to play and learn to patch what you have inside and out before adding anything else - once you've done that you will probably know that you need a module to do something that you are missing, buy that and repeat - continue in this vein for 6 months or so - then take a look back at this and try to build another rack around these modules - it will probably be 50% bigger - and that's just adding modulation for the furmana!

It seems a big consensus about kinks :)

have i missed something here?

do you want suggestions?

if so modulation (Maths and stages perhaps) and utilities (kinks a matrix mixer) would seem like a good place to start
-- JimHowell1970

Hey, I have quadraPol with Delta-v to cover almost everything what Maths does.
OTOH, Stages look cool! Never considered it and it seems like can cover what I was planning to do with Ladik 4-step sequencer and even more . .
Thanks for the tip!

EDITED Sep 14th 2020, 18:43

Nice, thanks for sharing. I'll try and aim in that direction and see how it goes.

I'll try to provide some details when I'm done with the track I'm working on. Played with the shift settings quite a bit, not sure what they're set to. Mostly using the Octatrack to sequence it right now.
Right now got the scale set to Tet12 either fully CCW or one of the first four scales. Detune at 11-12 o'clock. Balance slightly past noon. Root at 9, Spread at 12, cross FM CCW, twist and warp somewhere between 9 and 11. Like I said, not sure about the shift settings and I also add CV to pitch, root, scale, twist and warp via Octatrack CC to CV and a heavily attenuated Ochd.

EDITED Sep 14th 2020, 18:13

do you want suggestions?

if so modulation (Maths and stages perhaps) and utilities (kinks a matrix mixer) would seem like a good place to start

1) OSCs
- SV-1b main OSC and second OSC
- Mangroove
2) Filter
- Three Sisters
- SV-1b Filter
3) VCA
- quadraPol has 4 VCAs
- Delta V has 2 VCAs
- Doepfer A-147-2 has a VCA
- SV-1B has a VCA with distortion
4) Mixer
- Unify
- quadraPol
- SV-1b
5) Envelope
- SV-1b has ADSR envelope
- Delta V has two VS envelope
6) S&H
- SV-1b
- Pamela's New Workout
7) MIDI interface
- mmMidi has 2 melodic, 8 drum MIDI outs
- SV-1b has 1 melodic MIDI outs
8) Gate Sequencer
- Euclidean Circles v2
- Stoicheia
9) CV Sequencer
- Mimetic Sequent
10) Clock divider/multiplier
- Pamela's New Workout

Missing units

11) Waveshaper?
12) Delay?

EDITED Sep 14th 2020, 18:42

one sound source - any of the VCOs
one modulation source - maths
one sound modifier - a filter
a way to play - either use the BSP you already have or get the es9 - up to you
a way to listen - quad vca

maybe add kinks to this

learn everything inside and out

add one module at a time - unless you realise you need more utilities to make it work properly - and repeat....

Two loops of a forty year old Hondo II POS acoustic guitar through the Cocoquantus 2, along with some Tetrax, and pedals. I'm really enjoying the cracked/anti-rhythms the Coco produces.

Hey Garfield,

thank You for your participation and your kind and nice words! Its not always as easy as it should be...

But as with all things we have to return to a "normal state" and go on!

In this spirit,
all the Best,
jingo

Hello all,

This is part of my morning jam sessions where i'm learning to play my modular better so that I can eventually do a live show.
For today I put in an new OSC for a bassline and I am working on trying to blend the voices, keep the jam going, and most of all have a good time doing it. :)

Have a listen if you like:

All comments/questions are welcome.
Thanks and may you have a great day today wherever you are.

A few notes:
1) the kick is coming from my Octatrack MKII
2) I have the Manis running into the clouds for the lead(ish) line
3) I am sequencing in two parts:
a) the O&C is running hemispheres with Enigma Jr.
b) the steppy

EDITED Sep 14th 2020, 13:16

One last question:
Do you have a recommendation which modules I should definitely start with?

Thanks again for your help!

other than ergonomics - no - but they are very personal - go slowly and expand slowly (with what you need, not just what you want) is the key to getting a playable and interesting modular

Thanks for detailed answer @JimHowell1970 and @Lugia
Indeed I need to change my way to procede. Looking for modules on Youtube isn't the best way to explore patches and trigger your creativity. You get easily seduce by sexy modules while being new. I totally agree

learning....

First yeah I have to take those moog modules out of the case to free the space in order to add a bunch of utility and logic modules (I haven't looked up for a matix mixer but now that I did, I cleary need one) I think I'll go for a joystick too (Planar² seems great fun)

yeah a matrix mixer and a handful of stackcables makes you modulation go a lot further - especially when paired with a kinks

For sound sources, it's clear that I need more. I was planning to get a piston Honda and some filters (one Polivoks filter for sure)

Not convinced - I count 6 in total (including clouds) already!

I was planing to get more VCAs (Hexvca Befaco) and a quad attenuator in order to throw a bunch of them in my patches to have more control of each patches and send them to my mixer Worn Soundstage. I believe this enough to have a good mix of all my patches, but I'm not 100% certain.

I would just go with 2 2hp trim modules for attneuation - and see if you need more vcas - you may not

I'm not planing to sell anything yet, I'll buy more modules and explore the patches. See what do fits the best and then sell what I don't need anymore.
Thanks a lot for bringing your expertise!

-- Angular_drift

I haven't sold a single module in over 3 years

Mind you in the last 30 years I have only sold 3 guitars and a bass - to fund modules - I still have guitars and a bass though

Bought modules from @Halfgeleider @x2mirko @hirnlego and @duda within the last few months. Smooth transactions all around. :)

EDITED Sep 16th 2020, 15:30

Thanks again for your feedback!

I distributed the VCAs in the rack and exchanged the hexmix with the quad vca. So I count 9 VCAs now.
I also added planar 2 as it seems to be a very interesting tool for me.

Still something crucial missing ?

@sacguy71:
I want to use the ES-9 for that and I already have an Arturia Keystep Pro with lots of cv output possibilites. But thanks for your idea!

Thanks for detailed answer @JimHowell1970 and @Lugia
Indeed I need to change my way to procede. Looking for modules on Youtube isn't the best way to explore patches and trigger your creativity. You get easily seduce by sexy modules while being new. I totally agree

First yeah I have to take those moog modules out of the case to free the space in order to add a bunch of utility and logic modules (I haven't looked up for a matix mixer but now that I did, I cleary need one) I think I'll go for a joystick too (Planar² seems great fun)

For sound sources, it's clear that I need more. I was planning to get a piston Honda and some filters (one Polivoks filter for sure)

I was planing to get more VCAs (Hexvca Befaco) and a quad attenuator in order to throw a bunch of them in my patches to have more control of each patches and send them to my mixer Worn Soundstage. I believe this enough to have a good mix of all my patches, but I'm not 100% certain.

I'm not planing to sell anything yet, I'll buy more modules and explore the patches. See what do fits the best and then sell what I don't need anymore.
Thanks a lot for bringing your expertise!

EDITED Sep 14th 2020, 09:42