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Hi Wishbonebrewery,

Oh yes, very relaxing, great! Pity you can't be arsed ;-)

Ha, ha, just kidding. I was listening and suddenly it was quiet and I didn't really know what happened to me, till I realised that your track came to a stop and that was the reason why suddenly the world stopped around me... So, this track could have been twice or thrice its length and it would still have been too short for me.

Thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Thx - that 4 row rack is just too expensive as would filling it with stuff!!

Als0, not sure I need the flat row as most of my controller options are external anyway. But the sloped EP-270 is near the top of my list. Or just a rectangular one that I could always lay flat or tilt back.

Also, I'm wondering if I might do a plain case with a flying bus power for a few modules and then just use the wall warts for the two moogs. I know it would be a somewhat short term solution. But that would be good enough for a while.

Hi Jingo,

Oh that's great news and I have overlooked that Direction thing on page 4 :-(

Whoops, that means Five12 - Vector + Jack Expander increases once again of being my main sequencer :-) It's the price that keeps me away from it otherwise I think I would have ordered it already...

If my wife wants to divorce from me because I sold the house to be able to pay this sequencer, I am going to blame you for it, all right? ;-)

Okay one last question on this sequencer to be really sure :-) How's the menu diving, not too extreme I hope? Because if there is something I don't like then that's (deep) menu diving! One level okay (Sinfonion has for example most of it just one level), in certain cases two levels might be all right but that should be it, so please let me know.

Thanks a lot for the information and trying to convince me (you almost got me convinced)! Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Farkas,

I love the Sinfonion. If you are interested I can recommend to download the manual from ACL's website. The manual is easy to read and here and there a bit humour has been added, so it's not "dry-stuff" you are reading, I feel it's one of the better manuals out there under the Eurorack modules.

Then the Sinfonion itself, well most I told you already in my above post. Though it's a fantastic module, one has to keep in mind that it is a serious black hole that sucks up any module that's nearby located. You are really going to need almost every module you have in your setup (at least in my case) because you need tons of modules to keep all those channels "happy". 3 voices, chords (4 voices/oscillators would be nice, with 3 it can be done too) and an arpeggio, so preferable you need at least 8 oscillators then plenty of LFOs, EGs, large mixer or several mixers, VCAs, filters modules, etcetera (well you know the drill) to keep the entire thing going and working the way you like it. That's why I call it the black hole of my setup, all modules are being "slurped up" by the Sinfonion ;-)

In the far future, I might even consider a second Sinfonion however that costs yet another fortune, so I am not too sure about that at all.

Kind regards, Garfield.

Great info. With 2020 being what it is, it's definitely a good time to get back into making some music. I love Amon Tobin and Fever Ray.
Well, let's think about your proposed rack. You have a few different sequencers (Mimetic, Steppy, Euclidean), all with different strengths, weaknesses, and learning curves. Have you considered combining these into a single, more powerful, full-featured sequencer? I would recommend a master clock like Pamela's New Workout for sure (It can do gate sequencing, Euclidean rhythm stuff, LFOs, etc. with 8 outputs, 12 if you get the expander). The sequencer itself is a matter of taste, but I would try to whittle it down to one good one that can do multiple channels of gate and CV.
Again, a matter of taste but, I feel like there are better options for drums beside the Queen of Pentacles. It's getting very mixed reviews, and for that kind of money I think I would choose an outboard option like the Roland TR8s, TR6s, or something similar. You would have access to every great drum machine sound of the past, sample playback, fun and intuitive sequencing, and some effects. I think the TR8s also functions as a USB interface as well, but you may want to check on that. I have Endorphin.es prior drum machine (Blck Noir), and it's a love/hate thing. I rarely get exactly what I want out of it. I also have Endorphin.es Milky Way effects module, and I would HIGHLY suggest you consider replacing it with a Happy Nerding FX Aid XL. Similar cost and only 6hp, and it's a much more versatile multi-effects module. It may even diminish your Erbe Verb GAS.
Basimilus is fun. Arbhar looks like a blast too. Maths, Ochd, and the stereo mixer are good ideas. I would recommend looking for modules that have CV inputs though, so you can modulate all of the parameters. That's the whole fun of modular. It doesn't look like you can control volume or panning via CV on the mixer you've chosen.
You have the Optomix low pass gate, which is great, but I would recommend adding a complex oscillator to have fun with that. Something like the DPO, Furthrrr Generator, Verbos, etc. will be so versatile for melodies, percussion, and general wacky bleeps and bloops.
Finally, utilities like VCAs, mults, sample-and-hold, submixers, logic, and the like will be very important too, and you don't have a lot of that stuff. Mutable Instruments' Links and Kinks are small invaluable utility tools that should be in a smaller rack like this.
Those were my first thoughts as I looked over your rack idea. I'm sure others will have some good ideas too.
Have fun and good luck!

Thank you for your reply @farkas.

I'm not very good at sticking to a genre but in general glitchy beats, dark atmospheres, samples with some warble.
Inspired by artists like Murcof, Amon Tobin, Burial, Fever Ray for some tonal examples.

I'm interested more in the generative possibilities that in sequencing but I'd like a bit of both as it's nice to have some steady elements to root things while the generative aspects dance around.

Gear wise: I played in live bands from the mid 80's to early 90's and collected the basics of a studio with gear at that time. Then transitioned to making music on the PC for the remained of the 90's.
After that family and career (I'm a software engineer) cut more and more into my music time. I was planning to move internationally in 2020 before the pandemic hit and so sold all of my old gear over the last couple years in preparation. So as of right now, it will be this modular and some headphones. If things go well I will eventually need some additional gear and an interface with my computer but I'm in no rush.

My intention for the modular system is a creative outlet away from the computer screen that I can nerd out on. In the past I mostly worked alone but I see there is a modular store that seems to have fostered a local community that I would like to get to know. Pandemic has this introvert missing humans.

Budget-wise I have enough resources to go really nuts but considering this is a hobby and not my career there is an upper bound to what is reasonable. Of course when GAS kicks in I'm sure my idea of what is reasonable will slide upwards. But as a starting point I think $5k is a reasonable place to be. I have spent a lot of time looking at the Make Noise shared system. I like a lot of what is included in the shared system but I know I'd almost immediately want to get all the modules above that are from other companies.

Also as a noob that knows he is a noob I realize that I have a learning curve to climb and taking the the time to do so slowly gives me time to explore each module and how it can interact with its neighbors. Too many shiny things all at once can be counter productive.

Let me know if I can answer further questions and thank you for the help.

EDITED Oct 11th 2020, 19:41

Looking to add some utilities from 2hp: Buff, Mix, VCA

this is great!! Top stuff.

hey @mog00 that first track is lovely :)

Hmmm... I have a lot of thoughts here, but first, what kind of music are you hoping to create with this, and do you have any other synth/sequencing/drum gear already?

I'm putting together my first rack. This is more aspirational road map than exact blue print. I have plenty more modules I would like to add but have left some space for the feedback I get here. I could buy all at once but I suspect starting in the top left and working my way across a few modules at a time to learn is more realistic.

I would like this to be a stand alone box as much as possible.

Thank you for your feedback. I hope my first attempt isn't too painful for the seasoned pro's.
-Garymon

No patch notes, I can't be arsed, hope you find this relaxing :)

Made a patch based on these three mighty modules.

Oh, that's right. I forgot you had a Sinfonion. One of these days I would love to try one of those out.

Nice one. Knowledge in this ocean is amoeba level so if this site can help. Thanks luiga

Hey Garfield,

I can confirm that it can run other than forward.
But you can also read it in the manual on page 4, sequence controls:
DIR: Direction: Forwards, backwards, alternate with or without repeating
the ends, or run randomly.

You can't do anything wrong with this sequencer ;)... Except become broke when buying it.

Best,
jingo

Hi Farkas,

What you describe about the Voltage Block, those things, in a way, I have that functionality already in the Sinfonion (from ACL). Sinfonion is fantastic and I wish I can find a kind of main sequencer that can co-operate nicely together with the Sinfonion.

Sinfonion has a bit different setup as the usual sequencer (not in a bad way, by the way), so that's why I am looking for yet another sequencer. The Sinfonion, from my point of view at least, focusses more on arpeggio and chords, which is by the way fantastic and of course has yet another 3 channels available for melodies, though real classic sequencing is for those 3 channels kind of limited or not possible, the focus on those 3 channels is to get a kind of melody out of it, which is superb!

For a good reason the Sinfonion is called a chord progression sequencer; I therefore look for a classic (but good and not too limited in possibilities) sequencer to go along with my Sinfonion.

Thank you and kind regards, Garfield.

Hey Jingo,

Thanks a lot for those links, weird I thought when I checked the Jack Expander here at ModularGrid that there were no HPs indicated but now I see it's 12 HP :-)

Of course I downloaded the Vector user guide already (v1.4 indeed), but unless I overlooked it, I don't think this sequencer can do anything else than running forward (or can it go backward, random, ping-pong, etcetera? If yes, where can I find that in the manual)?

I saw a few bits of Loopop's video already but I need to have a quiet moment and then watch the entire full video. Yeah... Five12 chances are getting higher now ;-) I want to wait till end of October to see if the Ground Control will be released finally by Endorphin.es.

Meanwhile, I will still look around for other ideas and sequencers, more reading, more watching videos and let's see what it is going to be :-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

The original listing looks fine...just update the text/specs. Even though the image is of a digital mockup, it's still good. And if the panel change is significant enough, just do a front-on photo and drop it into the original listing.

Damned interesting module, btw...ARM based AND cheap? You oughta go talk to Robert over at AE; they did a collaborative with Dove Audio, and this might be a nice fit under the MDF, too! https://www.tangiblewaves.com/

Hi Mog00,

He, he, yeah nice noodling around with the BIA :-) Do you have the same experience as I do, that once you start "noodling around" with a patch (especially a patch like in your above example here) that you just can't stop it and continue want to keep "noodling around" with it? I love that feeling and that urge to continue not being able to stop :-) One of the pros of modular in my opinion.

Oh yes, especially the first one or two minutes your track reminds me far away a bit of the Kreidler music :-) So nice one!

Please continue to enjoy modular and thanks a lot for sharing this, kind regards, Garfield.

I wouldn't suggest hemming yourself in with a small cab just yet. Fact is, you've got some big modules in that...but lots of missing utilities and such. And a honkin' BIG buffered mult...which 1) you don't need in this small a build and 2) is so frickin' HUUUUGE that it's utterly ridiculous. I like EMW and all, but some of their utility designs leave a lot to be desired, size-wise.

But about that cab size...OK, you want to explore chaotic processes and sound design. 6U x 84 hp ain't gonna cut it, unless you use lots of tiny modules...which would make the whole mess a real PITA to control. Fact is, generative-type processes require quite a bit of modulation and modulation-dependent modules to achieve some really amazing results. And trying to shoehorn that into this cab isn't going to be fun. One other point, also: the P/S draws 4A from the wall socket...but there's NOT 4A inside the cab. Power conversion is a lossy process, so what you ACTUALLY have is 1500 mA on the 12V rails and 500 mA on the +5. Just pointing that out; never use the mains current figure to base actual module draws on, always use the internal P/S's rail currents instead.

Now, about those modules...it's not a bad selection if you're looking ONLY at "feature" modules. But the lack of many of the necessary modules to REALLY do chaotic processes is a big crippler here. And without those, you can have all the sexy modules that exist...and the rig will STILL sound like crap and be more akin to a VERY expensive noisemaker.

My suggestion here would be to STOP. As in, now. Instead of trying to suss out modular synthesis based on YT clips and windowshopping on MG, go instead to this site: https://vcvrack.com/ Get what they have, and load it with all the modules you think you need. Observe. Then start adding VCAs, attenuverters, mixers, logic, mod sources, etc etc etc...and observe the results AGAIN. You'll notice that even though those ute modules are booooooooriiiiiing looking, they're the sauce that makes the dish edible. Take them out, and you're back at noisemakers again. Get some real experience (yep! VCV is a Eurorack emulator, has many modules based on physical hardware) and get cozy with how to optimize a build between size constraints AND musical requirements, THEN come back to modular hardware...with that experience, doing a build should be a LOT easier.

Otherwise, this is gonna get expensive.

Hey Garfield,
please have a look at those links below, loopop´s video and the manual can help to make a decision :)

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/five12-vector-sequencer

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/five12-jack-expander

https://loopopmusic.com/five12-vector-eurorack-sequencer-review-and-in-depth-tutorial

http://45.56.118.96/VectorUserGuideV1.4.pdf

Best,
jingo

Hi everyone,

Im delving into the world of modular hardware, as I'm looking for more experimental sound generator and the controlled chaos that my synths cant emulate.

My line of thought was to go for the Hermod to be the brains and control centre which I can sync with my Mac and use midi if and when I choose. Plus the Euclid generator and effects for control of the "Chaos".
Sound generator - Polygogo
Filter - SE88 multimode filter
LFO - Antares Dual Analogue Modulator (Dual LFO)
EG and VCA -D&D Modules Dual ADSR / VCA
Output Interface - Befaco OUT V3

(future addons - Mixer, 2nd Osc, strymon magneto)

6U 84hp to give me room to add to the above.

Im looking at the EOWAVE 6U 84 -
- 6U in 84HP and 104HP
- 6cm Deep
- With power
- 4A supply included

All advice appreciated, if I am missing anything let me!

Ben

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1342620.jpg

Hi Banjofox,

I plan to buy this module,and I read the manual already ;)
Could you give a feedback about the wavetable editing section please?

Thanks

here's another, same patch just noodling with the BIA, what a fun module.

single voice BIA through the LXd modulation via Maths and clep diaz.

I am still exploring this module but so far I like it :) It feels intuitive, but I didn't realize that there were more menus (push the knob next to the OLED screen) until looking at the manual. Probably need to go read more to see what else I am missing :)

I had a suspicion it wasn't but at the time I didn't have any other photo's. Also at the time the module didn't yet exist, or appear publicly at least. After I created my page, I reached out to the designer about adding it so that's probably why the other one exists?

Either way I am okay with removing my page.

Yeah the Eloquencer, 512 Vector and WMD Metron look super awesome for a master sequencer. I plan to get a much larger case to add one of those and the WMD Performance mixer in the future. One guy I know has 4 Winter Eloquencers in his mobile setup! That is crazy.

I use the Eloquencer for more precise sequencing and the Voltage Block for experimenting. It's not really like the Varigate aside from the Malekko brand and imprecise sliders. What I like to do with the Voltage Block is program in arpeggios and short sequences (you can choose pattern length between 1 and 16 steps) quantized to a scale, and then rearrange the patterns on the fly. You can repeat a single step by holding down the button for the desired step, or hold down a few buttons to pick a few steps of a longer sequence to bounce between, as well as traditional up/down/up-down/random. If quantized, the sliders become a little easier to use. I have used the Baseck/Basimilus Iteritas Alter combination too with some crazy results. It's a fun little box with some valuable tools.

The mimetic is great for experimentation not as a main sequencer. Currently I do most sequencing with my squarp since I have a bunch of external gear. I may in my next case do more modular sequenencing only time will tell.

I am dealing with similar issues to Garfield in terms of finding one end all be all modular sequencer. I like the simplicity of my tiny Korg SQ-1 for creating beats and the touch pad of my Make Noise 0-ctrl but hate the lack of complex features like song chaining and pattern creation that my Elektron sequencers have for creating entire tracks of presets to use for sets. I hate the Varigate 4+ it is garbage. I read manuals and watched videos but it is so bad at creating patterns and the least precise sequencer as it just makes a jumbled mess of anything that I connect it to. Hell even LFO does better job of consistent beats. If Voltage Block is as bad as the Varigate 4+ then I'd avoid it. The Stillson Hammer looks fun as well but for $600 there are better sequencers out there.

Thanks Garfield,

It really is fun exploring sequencing beats and patterns with the Korg SQ-1 compared to Varigate 4+ and Make Noise 0-ctrl as well as using LFOs and Quadrax. Long term, when I have a larger setup, I'd like to get an all in one master sequencer and mixer to have full sets possible. I see folks using a combination of things like Tip Top Audio Circadian Rhythms plus Mimetic Digitalis as well as multiple Eloquencers and so forth.

Garfield thanks so much, short answer to a long story. I gave up music over 20 years ago to raise a family. I have had many a false start but never committed. Thanks to the latest planar conditions I have delved head first into music and am having a blast, but this has been the first piece of music ever produced and released (not counting playing live gigs as a percussionist in college).

Thanks again for your kind words, motivation enough to keep plodding through.

EDITED Oct 10th 2020, 01:12

Hi Farkas,

Ah yes, the Voltage Block, forgotten about that one, to be honest, so thanks a lot for reminding me. I am not too sure though...

I tested last year the Varigate 8+ at my local dealer, it was okay but I wasn't overwhelmed I must say. If I remember well (so please do correct me if I got that wrong) then there were sequence settings that once you left them, go for example to another track/channel and then go back to the previous one, you "don't get automatically the values back" of what you did before, if you adjust it then and it might not fit too well, if you get my point, or is it from a practical point of view not too bad?

Did you tried to combine the Voltage Block with the Varigate 8+ or did you straight away went for the combination of the Voltage Block and the Eloquencer?

I am curious after your experience with this one, so if you like to share some details or pros & cons with me that would be nice. Does the Voltage Block supports ratcheting?

Thank you very much, have a good weekend and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Mog00,

Ha, ha, you are still figuring out "what the hack you are doing?" ;-) Well for the fact that you have no clue on what the hack you are doing, you come up with a pretty nice track here, wow! No, rather WOW! I seriously love this, and this is your first ever track? My goodness, can't wait for your next few tracks then.

You blew me here away and I was worried about this coming weekend but with your fantastic track, I am going to have a serious good entrance into this weekend! Thank you very much for that and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Hi Jingo,

Are you saying that the Vector does have different running direction modes other than forward? That would be a pro indeed. Do you have the Jack Expander? If together with the Jack Expander, one has then 6 channels/tracks - outputs? Can the Vector do ratcheting, oh yes 2, 3 or 4 times, right?

Hmm, let me think of it, you might be right, this might be indeed the sequencer to go for, can I use your credit card? ;-) Joking of course, but together with the expander we are talking here about some serious bucks...

How many HP wide is the Jack Expander?

Thanks a lot for reminding to me the Vector :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

Nice demo/jam you got here with your Korg - SQ-1 and I like the sounds that you are able to get with the Basimilus Iteritas Alter module.

Thanks a lot for demoing those interesting items, have a good weekend and kind regards, Garfield.

Picture is not up to standards, also duplicate module.
original: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/other-unknown-pyxis-wavetable-lfo
duplicate with bad picture: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/other-unknown-pyxis-audio-wavetable-lfo

Well, OK then! Actually, if there's space, cram SOMETHING in it! Just make sure to not pop the P/S with all that module-cramming...

Right...also, another method for the gate delay would be to create "flams" on percussives. Since they delay any pulse, you can combine a "raw" trigger pulse with a slightly delayed one, and (using an OR gate) sending the result to something like a lowpass gate. Result: that classic rapid-fire "fadap!" drum lick, pretty much on anything you like. These pulse delays have LOADS of abuse potential, depending on where you send the output.

Don't go smaller YET. One of the best methods for getting a build right is to start in a case that you think is "too large"...because, invariably, it's NOT too large once you get the "feature" modules in alongside the "boring" stuff that's there to make the former set of modules really do their thing.

Three rows of 90 hp? You just described the Pittsburgh EP-270. But you didn't mention the BEEFY power capacity it has, which is a huge plus! Plenty of space, too...the angled front leaves ample internal space for deeper modules. However, it's not exactly set up for controllers, given the lack of a "flat" row. But you could also go with their EP-344, which also has the 1U utility row as standard, 5 Amps on each of the 12V rails, plus a "flat" row that's made for controllers, performance mixers, etc. More expensive, true...but as a long-term project (which all modular systems SHOULD BE viewed as), it works with its 4 x 86 hp form factor...still small, but still spacious.

complete noob, still figuring out what the heck I am doing, but figured I would start sharing to get feedback.

First ever track.
Squarp Pyramid master clock and blackbox 1010 sequencer
BIA main modulated by clep diaz bi-polar out fed into kinks, passing through a LXd (12dB) using the strike input (got to say I love the sound of the BIA through the LXd).
Vox and keys sampled via a blackbox 1010 fed into clouds modulated via Maths LFO mixed with clep diaz uni-polar and Freeze modulated using a gated sequence from my Pyramid.

Recorded live into Ableton, very light processing. Still a work in progress as I have other voices I am still working on mixing into the sequence.

AISynthesis
Doepfer
York Modular

all do inexpensive matrix mixers

I think it you want small go for the AISynthesis, if you want nice ergonomics go for the doepfer

I bought both the Boolean and the Gate Delay after your recommendations, so I hoped you would leave a comment.
And so you did :-)
Thanks a lot for the tips about how to use them. I look forward for checking out the patch ideas.
I am not aware of the 88/89 ”debate”. But the rack in Modulargrid is exactly how my rack looks IRL.
When I mesaures the Rackbrute and the MB 2S I find that the width of both is 455 mm.
So there is actually room for 91 hp!

Hey Garfield,

after reading your last post I can't stress enough to have a look at the vector. It does bring the features you describe. You'll also have to shell out 1k to get it with its expander, but I think it's worth every cent! And as I already wrote: Jim does a real good job and cares about his sequencer!

Best,
jingo

Thanks!

I did a fair bit of research on the Voltage Lab and came to the conclusion that I didn't really want the entire VRL system with their touch controller - just the module.

I definitely am considering leaving the moogs out of rack. Then I could do a smaller rack which would be nice. I'm also considering one of the moog skiffs and bolting it all together with those moog side panels. But one 60hp with the Pittsburgh doesn't leave much room.

I could possibly add a second empty moog 60hp and go 4 tiers. But in my closet like space two or three rows of 84 or 90HP would fit better. That's what kept pushing me towards a box of some sort.

I like clouds too!!!
Even Rings into clouds from time to time
Emilie says there are 2 modules left for mutable - I'm more interested in the other module than clouds 2 (or whatever it will be called), especially if it is something new and not just a new (smaller) version of another module
-- JimHowell1970

sounds interesting,regarding matrix mixers,been watching some youtube videos,but abit unclear what brands to look into for those,my first thought is something not to expensive

Garfield, have you checked into the Voltage Block? It might have some of the repeat step functionality you mentioned earlier in this thread. I use it with the Eloquencer, and really enjoy the combination.

I like clouds too!!!
Even Rings into clouds from time to time
Emilie says there are 2 modules left for mutable - I'm more interested in the other module than clouds 2 (or whatever it will be called), especially if it is something new and not just a new (smaller) version of another module

I think the sound of clouds is obvious if you use it in obvious ways - particularly running rings through it!!
also lots of people use it as an end of chain reverb
more interestingly you could load something into the buffer and use it as a vco!!
-- JimHowell1970

im interested in seeing the replacement mutable will come out with.personally i like the sound of clouds,

I know right... and a totally awesome case from EricaSynths too! I am tempted to build one on spec and hope t sell it, but it's a lot of cash!!

I have 2 VnIcursal built and ready to go, they are very nice, super dense builds. I actually like making these things, so satisfying. I would just recheck and calibrate again before sending :)