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I just took a look at your rack - the public one in your profile
it's not just vcas you need it's utilities in general - in fact I would go so far as to say it needs nothing but utilities and maybe another modulation source - even if you take the dfam out in the future - there are enough feature modules and voices
good luck with the hunt for a quad cascading vca... might be worth looking for a used one and/or try wigglehunt.com! I just looked there are a few originals about new and used - the older version of veils is a great module if you can spare thee extra 2 hp (which you can!)
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Excellent. Going to look through the A140-1 review today.
You must be in the academic world in another life. Your reviews have all the signifiers of a dissertation. :)
On a related note, Garfield, I need to get your thoughts on the Doepfer monster cases. Will be upgrading soon and not sure which configuration I need. I know you are a Doepfer fan, so I’ll post a new thread soon with more context.
Thanks for your attention to detail in your reviews!
Change of plans.....VCA’s are the next purchase since I do need them. Problem is I couldn’t find any on the short term. I just bought a Doepfer P9 (3 x 84 hp and PSU3). Since I have limited space, it’s more convenient for me to have the DFAM in the rack. I know it’s 60HP but I use it a lot for different things. Last week I made a plan with the P9 and this rack seems much better. Still plenty of room for a couple of VCA’s and modulation stuff + some oscillators and an extra filter. Still thanks for opening my eyes about the VCA’s!
Hi there and I am new since last year with similar goals.
Here are my recommendations and tips:
Get at least one Harvestman/IME synth voice module like Piston Honda or Hertz Donut. Thank me later
Filters- I like Harvestman/IME Bionic Lester since it has lots of infinite tone shaping options plus use presets
as well as lots of filter types from high pass to band pass. Another candidate would be Dual Borg love that filter.
Sequencers- super important I found for melodic options. I have a lot and found something like Eloquencer or Black Sequencer or Vector to be ideal because you can create and save presets for your melodic patches as well as create random, reverse and quantized scales without needing a separate quantizer module.
Utilities/tools- the less fun but crucial modules. You want mults, VCAs, sequential switch, logic all key for crafting unique patches. I like the Mutable Instruments Kinks and Links pair of modules for this in a small setup. Our very own @JimHowell1970 here turned me on to these functional modules and I have zero regrets. Another fun support module that I like is Tool Box from WMD/SSF which adds spice in small rack as it has logic, rectify, compare and switch all in one small HP module! Attenuators are super useful especially when using percussion and melodic patches. I like my WMD 4TTEN module since it has 4 sliders that are super ace for live performance with patches that can let you play your modular controls like an instrument.
Mixers- I started with a small 8 channel external K-mixer and love it but once I got a mixer dedicated for in box eurorack, I was hooked! Nothing beats the flexibility and ability to mix cv and audio in your case. I am a big fan of WMD Performance Mixer and Befaco Hex mixer and been having fun with my XAOC Devices Praga mixer. For a small mixer, I like my Intellijel Mixup and you can chain them together as well for larger mixer.
As promised, I managed to create two new review reports for the Doepfer modules A-145-1 LFO and the A-140-1 ADSR EG; ready for download.
Just a very general and summarised view on my review reports, especially handy for those who don't want to read the entire approximately 70+ pages review report :-)
After the first head page, the contents tables and the introduction in chapter 1. The interesting reading straight away starts with chapter 2 - The module summarised. So if you don't have much time but just want to have a quick glance, you only have to checkout chapter 2.
In case that might have interested you into knowing more about the module, chapters 3 up till 6 can be read, and that's it. Chapter 7 is a large and extensive explanation of all the tables, parameters and characteristics used and mentioned in the previous chapters. Chapter 8 is the glossary. So it's actually only about chapters 2 up till 6, which are about twenty pages. So compared to 70+ pages, twenty isn't too bad, right? ;-)
Updated overview of the ready reviews for download:
Cool. I still want a real Buchla and Serge panel one day. Would be fun to combine with eurorack.
-- sacguy71
Yes, I would like a Buchla too. I'm quite taken by the Easel. It's expensive, and compared to what you could buy in Eurorack for the same money, expensive I suppose. But I'm drawn to how well it has been designed and sometimes less is more. Although sometimes more is more too, I guess...
Sounds great. Plaits shines here. Buchla is alien to me but I'm always blown away by what people do with it. For patch inspiration I've used the Madrona Labs Aalto plug-in, which is inspired by Buchla system. You can get great patch ideas just by noodling around with it. Aalto
-- JoePaige
Yep, I'm finding that it pays to persist with Plaits (sorry about the alliteration!) and when I modulate it I've managed to get some quite gnarly sounds out of it, which I like. I was a bit worried at first that my rack was basically digital but the more I learn about the few modules I have, the more I see that there is always a new way to patch them up and get something cool. Thanks for the tip about Aalto. I've had a quick browse and it looks really cool. I'm going to download the demo and try it out. Cheers.
@ural, nice yeah I am trying to decide between the Erica Synths Black Sequencer and Vector with expander for my next modular sequencer. I really like the workflow of my Winter Eloquencer and being able to see 8 tracks at once of patterns and quickly change them on the fly instantly as well as save presets, chain songs, and so forth.
This might be solvable with some ferrites. First up, these: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-csb31-525-5 These should go on the DC out from the Meanwell brick...open one up, loop the DC out line around it a couple of times right next to the brick, then snap it closed. That'll kill any RF on the DC line before it gets into the cab.
the power brick from intellijel already has that thing included might not be it.
but maybe I should get a new power brick
on the other hand there is still the noise in my girlfriend Intellijel 3 u /64 system :((
It sounds like you are doing all the right things to track down the noise.
One thing to be aware of is that if a module is dumping noise into the system that same noise can present at the output of other modules!
This can lead to a cascade of noise build up, the one problem becoming more amplified as more patch points are connected to the outputs.
The first time I encountered this it drove me crazy until I figured out what was going on, it just so happened that I had one module with a screen that was generating noise (as they do) right next to another module that was very prone to picking up noise! Who knew!!??
........I took out everything else changes rooms in the flats etc. Thats sadly no the problem
had this with the black mixer of Erica synths, it was picking up noises of the modular
Hey everybody who's following this
Thank u @Kel_, JomHowell and Lugia
The problem is the noise or peep is clearly in the signal chain.
if I use it as a comb filter or pitched delay the same happens with the peep, also its also there when turned fully dry, or in case of the Vermona out, also when its turned down . Same with the intellijel 64 case from my girlfriend.
The other pilot is the grounding. He said my case or few of the modules could have lost the grounding, as I just moved in, maybe there is a truth behind this. Or from the livestream performance at an other place idk..
The search continues. I am kind of a neurotic person now I am way more aware of the noise (and high Pitch tone) my
Morphagene has and the noise level the data bender has. xD its driving me nuts
A friend of me has a mutable beads by himself and a intellijel 104/ 7u (Bought 2018 as mine). He has found the same freq but way quitter is 4032 Hz. SO IT IS A GENRAL PROBLEM WITH THE BEADS AND THE CASE. But he said he could live with it mine is much louder, as he has heard in recordings I've sent him.
I´ve taken my beads and case to the studio I work at rn there is another beads too, but in a huge doepfer case.
Same frequency but way way quieter. I switched them, put mine in the rack. same freq but way quiter. So something I could live with.
had no time to listen to the other one in my case. But mine in my case had the same problem in this studio, so its no problem I only have at home.
Start with one of the basic oscillator "voice" sections (the Noise Reap one, actually...get used to all of the crossmod and sync possibilities there), plus the stereo submixer and probably the Linnaeus, as it'll have the steeper learning curve.
-- Lugia
Lugia,
I've taken your advice and gone with the Paradox, Linnaeus, and the Sub-Mixer as my first modules (along with an ES-9). The Linnaeus is certainly capable of so many things – just messing around with it is producing crazy stuff.
i have a dv and like it a lot, but it can only sort of be a delay at the lowest density setting. it’s mainly good for big washy tails and feedback. the sidechain is a nice touch. i use it on the distortion setting much of the time, and shimmer can be nice as well. it can be reflashed into a proper delay (Imitor Versio). i haven’t tried it but read mixed reviews - too many delay taps seems to be the consensus but of course that is personal taste.
personally i would love to have a mimeophon and think they would go well together. forced to pick one, i might go with the mimeophon just since it seems like it can do more overall. bigger and more expensive though, which is always the dilemma :)
I can't recommend using the X-Pan as a proper final mixer. It does what it should, true, but this probably needs more inputs plus some easier methods for panning. Instead, try one of these: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ph-modular-mixer-black You'd need to connect to the XOH via a 3.5mm TRS to a stereo split 3.5mm pair with this, but that's not too much of a problem. You'd have to lose the Links, but it's probably more sensible in a small build like this as you can accomplish much of what it does with inline mults. Then, after the ph modular goes in, you'll have 2 hp left, and for that I'd suggest a 2hp VCA, which gives you two more linear VCAs specifically for modulation control. With everything else in there, that would probably button this up; I don't see anything else that jumps out at me on this build.
This might be solvable with some ferrites. First up, these: https://www.dxengineering.com/parts/dxe-csb31-525-5 These should go on the DC out from the Meanwell brick...open one up, loop the DC out line around it a couple of times right next to the brick, then snap it closed. That'll kill any RF on the DC line before it gets into the cab.
Next, you'll want two of these: https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/LeaderTech/SA28B0071/?qs=70SGE8EoboRwQl%252BZe6ev%252BQ%3D%3D One goes on the ribbon cable near the busboard, and the other on the cable close to the module itself. This way, anything that CAN get onto the power line either won't make it off of the busboard, or if it's RFI inside the cab getting onto the ribbon itself, the ferrite by the module will stop that.
Love Harvestman stuff half my system is Harvestman and the other Make Noise. I am desperately after Double Andore MK1 and Bionic Lester MK1 if anyone has any leads, I got cash waiting to leave my pockets and based in UK
Depends, if you already have similar modules like Plaits or Rings and don't have the Mimeophon or Desmodus then go for the effect module. Picking between Mimeophon and Desmodus is more difficult which is why I ended up getting both. Mimeophon can do more but Desmodus is way easier to use as a beginner to modular. All three are great modules! I have Plaits, Rings, Mimeophon and Desmodus and now I really want Beads aka Clouds v2 so that I can feed it into Rings for the old muff wiggler meme.
If you could only have one of these which would it be.
Context: I have a minibrute 2s and am buying a rackbrute 6u next week and my first ever two modules.
One will be plaits the other will be a reverb/delay.
After hours and hours on YouTube and modular grid I have these three on my final short list. (Although I really liked the qu-bit prism too)
I know the practical thing would be to get a multi-fx like the Erica Synth Dual or the FX Aid XL but I am totally going for fun over practicality.
Which one would you choose?
You will note that A-180-9 has an unequal number of channels. 8 for the top and 6 for the bottom. So if you order the Intellijel companion 1U modules this gets a bit confusing. Channel A = channel 2 on the Intellijel, and I presume you lose channel 8. So you don't get the full 16 channels pairing 2 Intellijel with an A-180-9. If you need all 8 channels on every Intellijel you buy, then you need an A-180-9 for EVERY Intellijel module. The bottom A-F channels are wasted. Unless you connect the A-F channels between Doepfers and leave the Intellijel out of it. Another one of those reading the fine print situations. And another tidbit if you use the bottom six A-180-9 sockets... A = 2, B = 1, C = 4, D = 3, and so on. an annoying byproduct of Ethernet wiring presumably.
You will note that A-180-9 has an unequal number of channels. 8 for the top and 6 for the bottom. So if you order the Intellijel companion 1U modules this gets a bit confusing. Channel A = channel 2 on the Intellijel, and I presume you lose channel 8. And you don't get the full 16 channels pairing 2 Intellijel with an A-180-9. FWIW
Sounds great. Plaits shines here. Buchla is alien to me but I'm always blown away by what people do with it. For patch inspiration I've used the Madrona Labs Aalto plug-in, which is inspired by Buchla system. You can get great patch ideas just by noodling around with it. Aalto
I totally agree. 99% of the time I am going to set the thing to mode one (matrix mixer) which is actually quite intuitive to use having watched the tutorials and just learn the crazy button light show combo to turn on and set the right quantiser on each output for when I am using an lfo or sample&hold to create some random melodic sequence. Job done!
If there was a ≤16hp module or pair of modules that offered that functionality I would probably buy that one or those instead instead for the same money :-)
The AI008 is 10hp for a 4x3 matrix and the A-138M is 20hp for the 4x4 matrix alone (granted being all lovely and actually analogue!)
Then to have the same 4 channels of quantiser I would need something like the ADDAC207 which is another 10hp and cost the same just for that as the CVilization.
I think that like Jim has a disting that for 99% of the time has just a single setting (tape delay) in his rack this will be a similar thing for me with this as a quantising 4x4 matrix mixer and so actually quite easy to use (i hope!)
Please let me know if anyone has a really bad experience with the CVilization - although that might be a discussion for a different forum section?!
I had never heard of the CVilization so I checked it out. It looks super powerful, but I cannot stomach all of those hidden button combinations, and remembering what different colored lights signify, and short press vs. long press, etc. I know that I would never use 10% of its potential. That is definitely something to consider when planning your rack.
I'm like Jim. I tend to invest in modules that serve the function I use most in a multi-function module. When I'm recording, I like to be able to reach and just turn a single knob on the fly, not rack my brain to remember the esoteric button combos.
The CVilization is the same money and same hp as the ADDAC207 and is simultaneously not only a 4in 4out quantiser but also a Matrix mixer at the same time. I would get it for that alone without any other functionality. I know the 207 has other quantiser features too like CV transpose but all these things are compromises in a small case and for me it is about ending up with something fun to use that ticks as many functionality and 'oh i would like to try that and see what happens!' boxes as possible.
Eg with the Kinks module I would like to try multing a single lfo into all three inputs of the Kinks and taking all the outputs into all the different modulation inputs on the Basimilus to see what happens!!!
The Magneto sounds awesome and really authentic but also super expensive - I see why it is down on your wish list. I used to have a real roland tape space echo. That was such fun to play with!
I'd try to find out if anyone else with beads, the 7u intellijel case and specific psu (I think there were 2 options, but not sure) has the same problems
those intellijel psus are quite decent but are noisier than some especially at very high frequencies - which some modules may pick up - they are not for example suitable for video work
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I wouldn't buy a linear only vca as a first vca - as it infers that it was designed only for CV and not audio
Veils overdrives very nicely - and is smaller - so that would be my pick! mutable manufacture also seems to be ok-ish based on new releases being available - so I'd expect that to be easiest to find, but that might not be the case as I've not looked
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
Doesn't modular run a bit too hot for a normal line level mixer?
most modern mixers should be ok - attenuators can helpful if it's a bit hot - I used a 10 channel yamaha mixer for ages and had no issues whatsoever...
The CVilization seems really cool. Mode one (4x4 matrix mixer) and mode two (4x4 sequential switch) particularly so.
Thank you again for the steer to look at matrix mixers as I would have probably not looked into this functionality as deeply before.
If i find one of these modes invaluable then I could always get a dedicated module for that next. What is super cool about the Cvilization is that in either mode quantisation is an independent and additional function that can then be added to any output individually! And best of all does all this in 10hp!!
-- andyblondon
I know of at least one person who swears by the CVilization.... I'll have to check it out more! the fact that it does lots of things in 10hp may seem like a good idea to start with, but often turns out to be not so great - often you just end up using them for one thing and getting other modules to do the others - as you always want the multifunction module to do the 1 thing you really like on it - disting is a tape delay emulator for me 99% of the time - I should get a dedicated module - but the only 1 I really like is Magneto - it's on the list but at least 1/2 way down!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
I have a mixer but wanted to have a headphone out on the rack to not need to power everything on to just have a play with the synth. I know that envisioning this whole rack as a stereo channel being labeled as 'mod synth' on my console next to 'Lead Vox' or 'Bass G' is already probably flawed thinking in the long run :-)
I could just get a small Mackie mixer or the like and run the mix out from that into the main desk.
Doesn't modular run a bit too hot for a normal line level mixer?
The CVilization seems really cool. Mode one (4x4 matrix mixer) and mode two (4x4 sequential switch) particularly so.
Thank you again for the steer to look at matrix mixers as I would have probably not looked into this functionality as deeply before.
If i find one of these modes invaluable then I could always get a dedicated module for that next. What is super cool about the Cvilization is that in either mode quantisation is an independent and additional function that can then be added to any output individually! And best of all does all this in 10hp!!
The Malekko seems to be linear only instead of Veils and the Intellijel that also allows you to use an exponential curve. From what I’ve read the Intellijel can overdrive in a nice way, the Malekko does this too but sounds harsher. But availability is a thing.....already messaged someone for an Intellijel.
It sounds like you are doing all the right things to track down the noise.
One thing to be aware of is that if a module is dumping noise into the system that same noise can present at the output of other modules!
This can lead to a cascade of noise build up, the one problem becoming more amplified as more patch points are connected to the outputs.
The first time I encountered this it drove me crazy until I figured out what was going on, it just so happened that I had one module with a screen that was generating noise (as they do) right next to another module that was very prone to picking up noise! Who knew!!??
Also, I am sure you know this anyway, but for those who may not, check your gain staging.
Finally, some proper analysis tools can help enormously when tracking this kind of thing down.
personally I would try to keep functionality as separate as possible
so if in 6 months you decide you hate the quantizer, or just don't need it, you can swap that and still have the matrix mixer - plus I don't know if you can use CVilization as 2 things at once, which you will probably want with these 2 functions
AISynthesis, doepfer would be the matrix mixers I would recommend most - doepfer for ergonomics and price, AI for size
the only thing I've seen that I would combine would be vcas - but that starts getting quite expensive and big (4msVCAM)
do you already have a mixer? - if so I would try to do without the XOH - I tend to find output modules to be superfluous - unless you absolutely need balanced outputs or headphones - if you only need headphones - get a headphone only module! - otherwise a smallish external mixer (10-12 channels) is probably a better buy than an in rack mixer
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
the first 2 are definitely voltage controlled amplifiers!- so they can double as input modules - and potentially add some grit if needed - not sure about the malekko
most vcas, whilst technically amplifiers, have a max gain of 1 - so really constitute a different class of module - voltage controlled attenuators - which makes things as confusing as before as the TLA is still VCA!
I've got the older mutable veils - and I like that - no need to upgrade to the newer version, which I expect would be just as good if not better (and a little smaller) - so I recommend veils over the other 2 - but at the end of the day it's up to you: get the one you can find, at the price you want to pay, with the features you want!
"some of the best base-level info to remember can be found in Jim's sigfile" @Lugia
Utility modules are the dull polish that makes the shiny modules actually shine!!!
First I would remove the DFAM from the rack to recover 60HP!
And I would choose a good Quad Vca: not only for attenuation...
Then it depends on the music or sounds you want to produce.
-- Sweelinck
That’s what I mentioned, it would be better to remove the DFAM to recover some space 😇.
Thanks a lot for the advice people, looking for a good quality VCA right know. At the moment three are on my wishlist in the following order:
Intellijel Quad VCA
Mutable Instruments Veils
Malekko Quad VCA (the scanning feature seems nice)
Yeah, big thank you to you, Lugia! It's really nice, but also a little beast for me to tame. :)
The setup as of now is utterly amazing. There is still space left and I was able to patch up a full ensemble with thick Kick, nice HiHats, and paraphonic melody from the paradox. I'll try to sketch this up later after work.
Thank you Jim,
This gives me the confidence to take the plunge and that this small system could work for achieving the outcomes I am hoping for.
You are right that i need to stay open minded and be willing to change the plan as I go but I always find it a good idea to have a road map too of what i am trying to achieve.
I have not filled my case to the brim with my wish list so there is still a little room for growth if i feel that there are things I would like that I am missing (like a TM).
What would be your recommendations for the matrix mixer and more feature rich end of chain module?
here is my current game plan.
MARCH Rackbrute 6U, Mimeophon, XoH
APRIL Plaits, Bloom
MAY Veils, Stages
JUNE Kinks, Filter?, Links
JULY Pamela's New Workout, Lapsus Os
AUGUST Maestro
SEPT Basimilus Iteritas Alter
OCT ADDAC 207
