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@jasper_t I saw the name check accidentally (try @ before the name and notifications kick in)

guidelines/rules of thumb - if they work for you great - but whatever may work for you!!! :-D

I'm sure there's a lot of people out there with modulars that are made up of a bunch of vcos and filters and a mixer - everything controlled by hand - and they're probably happy wiht it - but in general this

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

will give most newbies a better modular experience - the point of it is to try to stop people thinking that they need a lot of voices to create interesting music with a modular - you don't!

start with a vco, mult it a few times and process differently - different filters, frequency shifters, etc through different vcas and modulated differently will produce more interesting tones overall than a lot of sound sources with some sound modifiers, little in the way of modulation and almost no utility modules - which are in my opinion the most important modules you can get as they mult, modify and merge the really important stuff (CV) that makes the shiny expensive modules (vcos, filters, effects etc) actually shine and not tarnish after a short time

which is what newbies generally come up with unless they have spent a lot of time (and I mean a lot of time - months/years not minutes) researching and thinking about the subject

bu there are utilities and there are utilities - I don't see much point in format jumbler modules, that I see in your rack - just buy the correct cable!!!

if outside North America or Japan - chances are you don't need an output module - but if you are in those territories then you probably do!

isn't the rompler a voice too ?- I would consider it such!!! so 5 not 4!!

as for the modules that you are looking at -

MISO - yeah or shades or a host of other modules that do effectively the same thing - they are all good!

Doepfer Matrix mixer - again brilliant choice - but in this size modular you may find you want something smaller - you already have a lot of big modules - but if ergonomics are important to you this is the one to get!!!

Verbos Random Sampling - no idea - it looks great, but I think I'd rather have the functionality parted out over different modules

I'm kind of a control freak myself so I've tried a lot of module for that purpose. I really like joysticks. The intellijel planar is great especially because of the built in motion recorder. The doepfer is also pretty nice. A bit more coordinates that are covered but unfortunately without the recording. And with a huge knob. Not really suitable for a portable case. The one from Flame wasn't really my cup of tea but I heard good things from other people.

Tetrapad+Tete are great too. They are not as hands on as the joysticks, but if you take your time with them you get a lot of functionality of of them.

As dedicated mutes I use the Addac 305 and the lpzw schleußig. They're both great. The 305 has 4 buttons who control the 4 inputs. And 4 additional buttons for a fixed +5v gate signal. On the schleußig on the other hand, you can mute in sync to a clock. Lpzw has a new module afaik, as an addition to the vpme euclidean circles. It has basically the same functionality as the vpme six switches but with the added sync function. I'm still waiting for my order, but I'm pretty sure it will be great.

One module that should be mentioned but isn't necessary a control module is the Acid rain technology - Maestro. It's an 6 channel lfo, but it is well designed and I have my hands on it all the time.

Focus will be on darker sounding cinematic/ambient

EDITED Mar 12th 2021, 18:56

Hi mate,
I guess the word you are looking for is subtraction. Maths does that with ease. Maybe you want to look at this fine piece of work that someone put together...
Maths illustrated supplement (Page 15 should be about right)

In my opinion it's a must read for maths users. On the other hand there is the Addac 216 that has the subtitle sum&difference. If you fancy a dedicated module for that purpose.

Have fun

EDITED Mar 12th 2021, 15:54

I'm looking for a way to get the difference between 2 input CVs. For example, CV1 = 1V, CV2 = 1.5V, Out = .5V
Ideally, it would work with negative output as well, CV1= 1V, CV2 = -2V, Out = -3V
I think what I'm looking for is a comparator but all the modules I find seem to have outputs that are either low or high when CV2 is compared to CV1. I'm not sure what the name is of what I'm looking for, or if there is a way to do it with modules such as Math?

EDITED Mar 12th 2021, 15:32

No problem!

Others will have a deeper take, but I googled a bit and think you might find what you're searching for if look at this MuffWiggler thread: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=190728

For your sake going forward, different filters have different sounds based on their design or topology, which is generally named. By identifying the topology, in this case Steiner Parker filter, you can look for similar filters in Eurorack.
-- troux

thanks!

Others will have a deeper take, but I googled a bit and think you might find what you're searching for if you look at this MuffWiggler thread: https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=190728

For your sake going forward, different filters have different sounds based on their design or topology, which is generally named. By identifying the topology, in this case Steiner Parker filter, you can look for similar filters in Eurorack.

EDITED Mar 12th 2021, 14:32

Hi there,

I've been looking through this forum and slowly building my own rack for only about 4 months now. I've been working with synths otherwise for a long time. This rack is not even close to complete in real life, but I've been enjoying playing around with future "goal" racks. Would love to hear any thoughts or suggestions.

Quick explanation: This is a Doepfer A-100 (9U/84hp) and an Intellijel Palette (4u/104hp). The 1u row will be mostly attenuverters (8-16 in total). The Palette is the "control" skiff, ER101/102 is driving the 4 voices. Circadian Rhythm will be driving another rack dedicated to drum modules. The 4 voices consist of: Mannequins Mangrove, Verbos Complex Oscillator, Recovery Jupiter Spirits, and Mungo G0, which all go through a filter/vca to the ADDAC mixer, and then multitracked out for more processing.

The music I'm making is pretty beat oriented and intentional, so I'm not really going for a "generative" build. I want to tell it what to do, with some extra random wiggling. Not to say that those types of utilities are not necessary as well.

Modules I do not have that I thought might be useful:
- Tiptop MISO
- Doepfer Matrix Mixer
- Verbos Random Sampling

Ultimately, I'm pretty sold on the rest of the rack, especially as far as oscillator+filters go. I am now trying to figure out how to squeeze the most utility/modulation into the remaining portion of the rack. I always hear the advice (I like the way JimHowell puts it I think), sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation < utilities... something like that.. and while I do not have the same feelings he does yet, I'm pretty sure he's closer to right than I am! Regardless, the bones of this system which I do have has been working out really well for me! So just wondering here how to continue thoughtfully growing this case.

Thank you all.

EDITED Mar 12th 2021, 14:30

Hello!
I'm new to modular and come from hardware synths.
I want to produce a sound that i´ve been doing with my hardware synths,
here is a sample:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/attachments/electronic-music-instruments-and-electronic-music-production/940742d1611176634-how-program-synth-sound-kitaro-quot-aqua-quot-quot-cosmic-love-quot-snh-filter-b.mp3

(it's not the drone, but the Glittery on top).
It's done with a Sample and holds LFO at fast rates (between 5 and 10 Hz) into the frequency of a self-oscillating filter.

I did this sample with either an Arturia Minibrute or Minibrute 2 and I really like how it sounds, but I want to make the modular version, so it takes less space, more parameters can be modulated and it frees the arturia.

I brought my first modular filter which is a Tip Top Forbidden Planet, and though it sounds great for filtering, I tried the Glittery sound and its too harsh. It clicks with every step. I used the Minibrute SnH LFO to modulate it, and it does not reach the sound im after. Also, a little slew maybe could solve it, but the Arturi by themselves archive it, so I think it can be done with the appropriate filter.

I was wondering if there is another technology of filter I need for this sound?
What are the filters that archive this sound?

Any input is welcomed , thanks!

do you have a tv in your studio? most seem to like crts (if you can find one with component in jump on it) but I use lcds - a different 'vibe' but looks great to me (all my instagram footage is lcd filmed on an iPhone - hence the crappy audio!)
-- JimHowell1970

Jim, I was wondering how you film your Instagram posts. They always look great.
I've dipped my toes into the circuit-bent glitch video world, but have not gone down the video synthesis path (yet). I've been using a Sony WEGA CRT. It seems to mostly avoid cutting out with the glitch processors without a time based corrector. Otherwise, I'm just using an Edirol V4 and a few handmade glitch effects I picked up on etsy. Your video rack and productions are impressive.
Take care.

I agree with everything discussed above. I feel like Harmonaig (as cool as it is) is complete overkill in this rack. I would be more inclined to include a uO_C instead to get some chord sequencing and a lot more in a small package. I am not smitten with the Clouds/Monsoon sound or user interface, so I would also encourage you to wait for Beads if that is the type of thing you are going for.
Finally, I believe the black panel Maths was only included with one of the Make Noise package systems, so it is not readily available. If you do actually find one for sale used, you will pay a premium just for the perceived rarity. I would recommend just getting the standard silver panel version. If you really need a black panel version for the aesthetics, I think there are some aftermarket options available. Everything else looks like a great start into the modular world.
Have fun and good luck!

a few doors!
-- the-erc

A few ? Hmmmm, I think you’ll be positively surprised, I personnally would not have purchased the Tetrapad if it wasn’t for Tete :-)
I recommend spending time with CV assignment and thinking how Tete’s outputs can be reused in the rest of the patch and how you can influence the Tetrapad itself by feeding stuff from your patch into its X/Y/Z inputs.
For using pressure output, attenuation and/or slew works for me. Another use I think is cool is using it with one or more comparator to start bringing in elements when pressure is high, or take away when its low...

Have fun ;-)

even after a few months!!!

missed the Harmonaig - not familiar with Instruo to be honest

I agree not much point in a case this size - especially with the marbles and VB - unless it will allow you to generate chords - but then you really need at least 4 voices

but saying that in a bigger case with more voices it might make sense - I have a sinfonion, which I use as master quantizer and chord pattern sequencer - but I do have a lot more voices - see the "pretty big re-arrangement" thread if you want to check out my racks!!

What is the use of the Harmonaig ? Both Marbles and VB offer quantized outputs, and I feel like such a best of a quantizer would be a lot of overkill for a relatively small build, but I may be missing something...
Also, +1 for Beads but it might be my own desires masquerading as advice.
Pretty good build overall though, I’d have fun with this. Definitely do what Jim suggests, having a look at old plans after a few years can be funny, and even insightful...

@Lugia

voltage is 0-1v in lzx ecosystem - and it's just electricity - above or below will clip, so no damage, but maybe not as expected - saying that I do it all the time!

what you do have to pay attention to a bit is frequency - goes up to multiple MHz... so if for example the 'audio' module has slow op amps, you can get smearing - although layering the smearing and blending can be quite nice

I've tried running video through most things in the rack!

for examples see instagram - #lzxveurorack - where I post examples of 'audio' modules being feed video signals - and check out my feed too if you like (same user name)

iirc most if not all the passive mults I have are normalised like those seismic industries ones - to a greater or lesser extent

do you have a tv in your studio? most seem to like crts (if you can find one with component in jump on it) but I use lcds - a different 'vibe' but looks great to me (all my instagram footage is lcd filmed on an iPhone - hence the crappy audio!)

if the answer to the tv question is yes - then look out for the chromagnon videos when they come out - maybe time to jump on the pre-order then as they will undoubtedly go up in price - that'll be one of the best starting points for video synthesis for the next few years at least - and can be used standalone or racked (yes, yes I know, racked = expensive case) - or go digital with hypno or structure - I like the analog much better than digital to be honest

another option would be to get something like lumen if you have a mac (Windoze version is on it's way but might be years) and connect that via cv-> midi for modular control

anyway - anytime you want to chat/ask questions - you know how to find me!!!

cheers

Jim

looks fine

starting with a decent sized case is always a good move

if you are thinking about beads - then I wouldn't bother with the monsoon - just pre-order a beads from the second batch

plans change over time - it's easy to get sidetracked by shiny new(ly discovered) modules and important to get the modules you actually need! (only your experience will shape this) - but it looks reasonably good as a goal - save that rack now and compare what you have in the actual case when it's full with what you thought you wanted...

well especially for performance I think I'd want function per module rather than a super disting!

and more utilities would work better for me - some switches and a matrix mixer - great ways of altering what modulation goes where for example

but if you are happy with it that's what counts

Thank you all so much for such great advice. I will pause on getting any newer modules and focus on a more balanced ratio. I can't express how grateful I am for the help!
-- marcomixtle

NP... glad we could help!

If I may applaud from the cheap seats, as someone still working my way through the newbie stage, Jim and Lugia's wisdom is mighty welcome. That priority/ratio model is a helpful guide.

It's good to feel appreciated - thanks!!!

I quickly discovered that the Synthesis Technology E370 needs a veritable army of modulation signals to live up to its full potential). I can't claim any intelligent foresight for this, but as a pleasant change, my ill-guided bumbling through life worked out rather nicely in this instance.

-- oldandintheway

there are a lot of modules out there (mostly shiny expensive ones) that really need a lot of modulation to get them to work best - often needing attenuation on the way in (clouds is a good example)

I don't think any of us can claim any form of intelligent foresight - it's just what we've picked up along the way - often from making those mistakes ourselves in the process

start with too small case - check
not enough modulation - check
not enough utilities - check

4, maybe 5 years later - experience in how to build modular synths that are worthwhile and usable - in my case both audio and video - and pretty much any size

Thank you all so much for such great advice. I will pause on getting any newer modules and focus on a more balanced ratio. I can't express how grateful I am for the help!

I don't have one but I'd love to get a Steve's MS-22
If you want an example of the cleaner sounds, check out the sound sample that's part of Steve O'Hear's review

-- tverscho

Yes it does sound very nice, thanks for the link. Also sold out at Three Tom. Guess I'll keep an eye on eBay...

-- the-erc

I think you'll have more success sending me an e-mail at info [at] threetom [dot] com instead of waiting for one to pop up on Ebay :). AFAIK, only one MS-22 has ever been offered on the second hand market in the past year ;).

This is my performance system I'm building. I often program in Max so the Daisy Patch is open to any kind of module (I have made compressors, fx, synths, drums, sequencers).

The idea is that I use the Clank Chaos for generative sequencing, driving most of the melodic stuff and a TR8s for all the drums.
All sounds are plugged into the ES-9 for further mixing via iPad running AUM with heaps of AUs.

That screaming you hear later tonight will be me.

If I may applaud from the cheap seats, as someone still working my way through the newbie stage, Jim and Lugia's wisdom is mighty welcome. That priority/ratio model is a helpful guide.

I meandered from 5U into euro and wound up with a hybrid rig in which the lower-functional-density 5U modules often serve as support players for the higher-density euro devices (e.g., I quickly discovered that the Synthesis Technology E370 needs a veritable army of modulation signals to live up to its full potential). I can't claim any intelligent foresight for this, but as a pleasant change, my ill-guided bumbling through life worked out rather nicely in this instance.

Awesome... thank you @jimHowell1970, I really appreciate and respect your comments and suggestions.

Yes, I’ll be sequencing from the Minibrute and listening via mixer outputting to a pair of powered monitors.

Thanks again.

Hey all,

I've started planning a case to supplement my Moog Mother-32/DFAM/Subharmonicon system. I'm thinking of getting a TipTop Mantis.

I think the ultimate goal would be for the system to function standalone as well, so in that vein I'm thinking I'll need the full signal chain from voicing to modulation to sequencing and some effects. After reading around, the advice I'm hearing is to start with the essentials and here's where I'm at:

For master clock and S&H there's Marbles
For the first voice there's Plaits
For utility there's Maths and then Links/Kinks/Shades and a mult
The filter is the Ikarie
First VCA is Veils
Microcell for some spaciness

If anybody has thoughts on this I'd love to hear, anything I'm missing for for routing to get the sound out or any limitations.

Also, I've been toying with 'the end goal' and I would want some additional voicing, sequencing w/ CV for pitch, additional LFOs, more modulation, several more VCAs, more mixing (including a matrix and I think a final mixer to pipe it all into my interface) and a nice delay/way to play with echoes and time (like maybe the Mimeophone or Beads).

To that end, I've also put together this rack below that I think includes all those elements:

If I'm connecting the dots right, this would cover all the bases for a standalone system with some flexibility, also keeping in mind I've got my semi modular system to supplement.

Appreciate everyone's time, feel free to critique or suggest alternatives!

Ahhh...didn't know the "normal" modules were already functioning at video voltage levels! Changes things a bit, although I still think my layout for those cabs works there. It puts the most obvious "hands-on" devices as the bottom "controller" row, all of the LZX stuff with similar control paradigms in the next, then all of the "normals" above that.

Also, those Seismic mults have a sneaky feature that allows you to break out the second mult set there; if you don't patch that, they can function as 1-in/7-out, which can be pretty useful for distributing control (non-scalar) signals to many destinations.

Gave me quite a bit to think about, also...one objective here within this decade is to implement a video synthesis studio as well, although that's going to have to go in a different room here.

Jim's spot-on, yet again...without the "boring" modules, the expensive stuff you have here can't operate to its fullest potential.

Synthesizers aren't just made up of things that make noises...you MUST have all of those utility and other sleepy-looking modules there, because without them, you have no way to directly influence modulation behavior over the other modules. If I were you, I wouldn't order or install ANY other modules at this point...instead, remove what you've NOT got on hand already, then try and rework the build to allow those. Otherwise, all you're building here is an expensive noisemaker...it won't have any of the nuance and controllability of a properly-implemented build.

The MG cat must remain forever. It haunts us, even in our dreams.

mostly looks good

you could drop either the sto or plaits - at least initially, although a simple analog vco and a digital vco are both nice to have

how are you going to play this? sequence from the minibruute?

how are you going to listen to it? via external mixer - NB if you are in an area of the world with unbalanced

I would replace the pico dsp with a fx aid xl - same chip - more options - more modulation inputs

be careful not to overdo it with sound sources and modifiers - I'd try to limit it to 2/3 voices in a case this size

I think:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation (about 20% of case/number of modules) < utilities (30% of case)

as I think it allows the most variety in patching

so maybe another modulation source would be a good addition - have a play with envelope generators and lfos and coombiiniing them with maths to make more complex modulation - remember to check out the maths illustrated manual - and work your way through it a few times - and keep going back to it every so often - it's a great primer for patching modular synths!

good start all round though!

well bigger case, fewer modules always seems to make more sense to me, but each to their own!

enjoy the VCA and Mult!

Hi Jim,

Wow, nice rack! I agree here a bit with Farkas, if you reach a certain size as well as complexity, and your rack size and complexity has reached that I would say, though Lugia took the fantastic effort to still give it a try :-) , then it becomes rather a personal taste how you like to (re-) arrange your modules. It looks fantastic though!

Thanks!

I also agree with Farkas!

I'd already made a start on re-arranging... moving the video modules (and the doepfer modules I run them through!!!) into 2 cases instead of being spread around 4... and the mixer into a better spot etc! and then I hit re-arranging the cases to be more practical... video will be in the middle and the 2 84hp cases will be side by side.. definitely not ideal - so I just hit a wall for a bit and thought someone might give me a bit of a push in a direction - thanks again @Lugia - I think the re-arrangements should be done over the weekend and the final case parts will be here within a couple of weeks

Can't we make your rack stickied on top of this rack forum for beginners? Saying, look, if you consider to start into modular synthesizers, this is about the minimum size to grow towards to otherwise it makes more sense to buy a ready synthesizer instead ;-)

hahaha.... not that bad an idea - maybe remove the video racks, though... don't want to scare them!

Thanks a lot for sharing this, very interesting and kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular

a pleasure!

also, the problem with ditching the Vnlcusrer VCA and Multiple and replacing the space with a Veils is that id use up all my space and have 13/14 slots filled in my bus cable. So I think ill stick with the Vnlcurser VCA and Buffered Mult just for utility purposes.

EDITED Mar 12th 2021, 00:18

2 0f 2 is going to be my case that I build probably next year after I've assessed all my needs with my first skiff.
I do realize that I should have gotten a bigger case, but I was on a budget and just wanted something small to start out with seeing how this will be my first ever eurorack.
The cool thing about having a second 104hp skiff though is you can daisy chain 2 Row Power 45s together and I felt like that would be a better option for my wallet.

Hi. Been lurking for a while now. Ton of great info here, soaking up (drowning in) the knowledge. Have a Minibrute 2s & Drumbrute combo (with an external mixer plus a few guitar effects pedals on hand) and ready to take the deep dive into modular.

So, for your collective critique, my starter RackBrute 6U... Anything obviously awry or just plain stoopid?

Cheers

Hi Jim,

Wow, nice rack! I agree here a bit with Farkas, if you reach a certain size as well as complexity, and your rack size and complexity has reached that I would say, though Lugia took the fantastic effort to still give it a try :-) , then it becomes rather a personal taste how you like to (re-) arrange your modules. It looks fantastic though!

Can't we make your rack stickied on top of this rack forum for beginners? Saying, look, if you consider to start into modular synthesizers, this is about the minimum size to grow towards to otherwise it makes more sense to buy a ready synthesizer instead ;-)

Thanks a lot for sharing this, very interesting and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks for all the responses!

I should mention that I'm specifically looking to be able to record in longer gate lengths via midi-cv conversion (or from within the eurorack sequencer itself like CV Key Rec Mode in the Eloquencer) for the use longer sustained envelopes where I'd like the gate length to be the amount of time that I've held a key or touch interface of some kind.

My problem currently with my Eloquencer, although I will be keeping it as it lends itself to results that I otherwise would not come up with is that I'd still like to be able to express a pattern that is in my head and the limit to gate lengths and number of steps is preventing me from doing so at the moment.

Has anyone encountered a similar situation? What did you end up doing, are there any sequencers in general, eurorack or other that will allow me to interact with my systems gates/envelopes etc in such a way?

I don't have one but I'd love to get a Steve's MS-22
If you want an example of the cleaner sounds, check out the sound sample that's part of Steve O'Hear's review

-- tverscho

Yes it does sound very nice, thanks for the link. Also sold out at Three Tom. Guess I'll keep an eye on eBay...

+1 one the Short Bus, especially in combination with Pamela's New Workout. I'm also using an ST Modular Switched, which is just a switched multiple. More often using it to send two sequences a few destinations, but it can also serve the wrong way round, just try not to have 2 sequences feeding the same bus at the same time!

I've had the Tetrapad for a while and I feel I'm probably under-using it. In particular the pressure has never been all that usable. I just got the Tete which might open a few doors!

I was on the fence about a matrix mixer, but you've really convinced me that it's just something I really need that can exponentially extend the possibilities. You are absolutely right, it would get boring quickly.

I've updated my rack with your recommendations and dropped QPAS and BAI.

Thanks - I try to help!

a good place to start:

mutable links, kinks, shades (or any other modules that cover their functionality) - multiples of this (or parts of it) are extremely useful - either as identical modules or different ones

a matrix mixer - one of the most powerful tools in the modular synthesist's toolbox - use them for combining modulation sources, setting up feedback loops, adding send return functionality to mixers without it etc etc etc

Great feedback! I will definitely focus on what support modules can help with what I have now. This makes sense.

looks like a fun rack to play with - but not a long term solution, at least for me...

too many voices/big shiny, expensive feature modules - not enough modulation or especially utilities (more variety of these needed to imo) more vcas is a good start - as is anything that can be used too mulltiply, modify and merge modulation

I prefer

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation (20%+ of the rack) < utilities (at least 30% of the rack)

because you can get much more variation that way

utilities are the inexpensive, dull polish that stop the expensive, shiny modules from tarnishing and makes them shine

personally I'd postpone the modules you think you want - until the next case - and get the modules you need to support the ones you've already got

EDITED Mar 11th 2021, 20:38

Giving anyone a reason to chuckle is a satisfying day's work, and it helped me recover from being traumatized by a demented stalker kitty :)

Another little 4hp module that is interactive and handy is the Acid Rain Switchblade. It's just three switches that you can either gate or manually switch with a button press, but I find myself using it all the time to switch between sequences on the fly. More useful than it looks.

Tetrapad + Tête is a super powerful controller combo, it can be configured in a number of different ways to control your rack, and it offers an internal sequencer, looper and configurable CV I/O. From what I can gather, TetraPad+Tête+Planar2 is even better, but too much for me ATM.

@oldandintheway this post made my day, that cat really is a jerk!! 🤣🤣

EDITED Mar 11th 2021, 18:20

Still missing some of the modules that are harder to find like QPAS, Panharmonioum, disting EX.

The next three modules I'll pick up are Noise Engineering BIA, Noise Engineering MI, Erica Synths Dual FX.

I have every other module already installed.

Any thoughts or ideas on this? The big candidate for replacement is the Doepfer A-143-2 Quad ADSR (I love this thing so much tho). Also with the remaining 3hp in the bottom, I was thinking of a 2hp VCA.

for a mute module i got one that is called Quiet,but havent used it yet.
also considering the Makrow Module