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Hi ModLifeCrisis,

He, he, nice one! I am afraid I am too slow to get anything done within a half hour or so ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Ha, ha, a very good one from 2 HP

Hi Left4deaf,

Did you check already the connectivity of power cable on both sides, hence at the module side and at the power bus side? If no signal, nothing at all, it might be a power issue.

Good luck with the troubleshooting and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

Hi Jihel,

Thanks a lot for your reply. The shop in Greece indeed still sells them but at what price...? Wow!

The Thomann one the "Black Multi" that's the successor of the "Black 8 Multi" (Erica Synths told me). The Black Multi has only 3 outputs instead of 4, it has an octave/offset switch per multiple instead. I rather had the Black 8 Multi, the perfect (dual) buffered multiple...

I need to give the Greece shop a thought, thank you very much! Kind regards, Garfield.

Yep, nicely done 2hp. I love the video. They went all out.

Well, $2k won't cut it. For one thing, granular oscillators ain't cheap. Secondly, in order to get the modulation section to have "as many possibilities for a kind of 'controlled chaos' as possible", that required quite a bit of beef-up and some interesting modules that you don't normally encounter. And lastly, the 2 x 84 cab just wasn't cutting it as far as fulfilling either of those two points. So, I expanded the hell out of this by sticking the build into an Intellijel 7U x 104 cab, which then ALSO gave me a tile row for handling the end of the audio chain and putting in some extra attenuverters/mixing, their Noise Tools, plus a stereo audio in. The results:

OK, this thing kicks MASSIVE ass as far as stochastic-based work is concerned. And the audio chain...magnificent. Here's what's there...

Tiles: Stereo audio input (the jacks are on the case), Noise Tools, QuadrATT, two pair of VCAs, stereo submixer (allows you to fly the Beads or the Morphagene in over your stereo mix...very effective way to control that), then the stereo output.

Row 2: TWO Dust of Time oscillators, each paired with a dual VCA cloned from the Veils VCAs for their level control. 2xSAM then allows you to mix these two stereo feeds, or to control their levels manually without mixing. Then a Rossum Linnaeus stereo filter gives you thru-zero FM over your filter, plus loads of other modulation possibilities over the timbre. Beads is next, then a Morphagene allows you to loop segments of the audio at will, or under the stochastic control from the next row. The X-Pan then lets you mix all of your stereo sources in various ways, with CV over crossfading on the two stereo main inputs and CV over panning.

Row 3: This is where the magic happens. The Clank Chaos is at left for ease of access. Then a Modbox dual LFO gives you some basic modulation curves. Maths is next...then one key module, the 4ms SISM, which lets you reprocess and mix all of your modulation signals while having CV control over mixing, offsets, etc etc. After that is a Happy Nerding 3xVCA...DC-coupled VCAs for modulation level control. A Quadrax + Qx gives you four loopable envelope generators, with the Qx letting you cascade the entire EG complement if desired. The EOR/EOF trigger outs can also be used to trigger other modules. After that, a Dovemans Dual Window Comparator can pick off several gates from modulation curves as desired. Then a Klavis Caltrans quad quantizer lets you take modulation sources and, by using the various trigger/gate functions, pick off four different CVs from this. Lastly, there's a Greyscale Permutation stochastic sequencer with its Variant expander to allow the Permutation to generate two channels of CV along with its other duties.

So, no...it doesn't cost $2k. More like about $6k with the case. BUT...this is a super-comprehensive stochastic composition system with the granular synthesis you want, plus some audio extras to make the possibilities there go thru the roof! You won't (actually "can't") exhaust this, as there's so much potential in the modulation row to create endless variation and chaos-based activity that there's not really any way to create quite the same thing twice. And once patched, it'll roll right along with as much or as little input you want to utilize. More spendy...but with this, you 100% get what you're paying for.

168 hp was chosen as a limit for the non-Unicorn accounts mainly because the maximum width at that time was 168 hp, as seen in the Doepfer "monster cases". Since then, there's been some firms that have gone larger, most notably ADDAC System and their 197 hp (1 meter) cabs. Most starter cabs are below this width, so the higher width is really more of an "experienced user" requirement...hence why the widths beyond 168 hp are for the Unicorn users. But the Unicorn account is useful ALSO because you can create up to 60 separate builds...with that, you can build up multiple systems and then compare/contrast them to sort out the best approaches to your final desired result.

hi everyone!
I would like to build a rack for around 2k mostly for sound design purposes (but also for jamming a bit). I'd like it to be centered around granular synthesis, have decent audio quality and as many possibilities for a kind of 'controlled chaos' as possible.

I'm completely new to this and just been browsing, so naturally I don't know the best modules for this kind of thing ...

here's my first attempt:

Pretty sure I missed about half of what I'd really need. Happy about suggestions for modules/alternatives, etc.

Thanks!

EDITED Apr 1st 2021, 21:24

I thougt my 6U rack would be enough for me. Then I thought about a small skiff as a complement. But now I think I need about 6U more.
I am mostly into generative patches and would develop that further.
So I would be glad for some advice about new modules.
It would take some time before I can fill all the new 6U so it wold be fine with a developing plane with for example a start with 4 or 5 modules and then adding 3 or 4 at a time.

Hi there,

my TM seems not to be working properly: there is no more pulse coming out of the pulse out.
We agree that the pulse Led should be blinking according to the current pattern, right? I have no blink and it's impossible to trig anything from it, as I think I used to. (Whether I plug a cable or not into the pulse out, it doesn't blink.)(I already switched off and back on the whole rack, doesn't work).

Please see video here:

What do you think I should do?… Thanks!

for now i have ditched the ES-9(might add it again though)but i ordered a blood cells d.o.mixx https://bloodcellsaudio.com/products/domixx

that should give my multitrack recording.also ordered the acid rain navigator,next thing on my order list is the tetra and tete
-- Broken-Form

what are you using as an audio interface?

don't over look the mutable trio though - of links, kinks and shades! and don't worry if there's a bit of overlap - some things are good to have two of

I like matrix mixers and vcas a lot for mixing copies of modulation sources together and producing more complex ones - both are obviously also useful for other tasks - creating send/returns and feedback mixing for example

for a function generator I like maths - it's ergonomic and it's not overly complicated - also the illustrated manual is a fantastic learning tool - 32 patch programming examples - which hopefully also give you further ideas for patching other modules

I've not used others though to be honest though - rampage in vcv rack is the closest I've come - falistiri (or whatever it's called) just seems too cramped and all over the place - DUSG looks like a great idea - simple and workman like and AI are just releasing a single channel function generator - which might be a good buy - or a pip slope or 2 - add some utilities and you have similar functionality

unicorns can go bigger - 342hp

I would suggest just starting with a big rack (168hp by 4 rows is more than big enough) and work out what modules you want and what modules you need to support them, then get that checked by experienced modular users - by starting a thread with the url of your public rack for example (I think you can just comment on it) - this often takes several iterations and then once that is done, add a bit of space and power headroom for future expansion - add a further 30% to the power and then find a case or cases that satisfy both the power draw and the hp requirements

this way you can ignore the constraints of the case and power and concentrate on what you actually want to get from the modular and what you need to actually achieve it - it also stops you buying too small a case and then having to go and buy another one in 3 months when you realise that you "need" Maths (for example) and you only have 12hp left

good starter sizes for eurorack cases are 9u * 84hp (Doepfer), 6u * 104p (Tiptop Mantis) or 6 * 140hp (b-company go)

the doepfer and tiptop cases have been around for quite a while and have proven themselves to be solid and reliable cases and power supplies - the b-company one seems popular - I think it's a bit under-powered for the size personally

If I'm understanding you correctly you can add multiple rows to the rack:

Edit => Edit Rack => Rows

HaHa !
Fool Day !

On Todd Barton's Patreon site he set us a 1-minute performance-patch-composition challenge. I don't think I managed the 'patch' part, but there is a lot of fading in and fading out and something tricky with the Morphagene. I'm looping into the Strymon El Capistan, which is off camera. If anyone else fancies having a go at this, why not post the results here. Might be fun... :)

EDITED Apr 1st 2021, 16:27

Hi,

Thats an really good point, ive looked quite a while on the ssf toolbox so thats a great recommendation. Do you have some special function generator in mind? and other utilities? About the case and get another one, I will try at the moment to keep everything in the same case, in the future I maybe will get rid of the metron and get an octatrack but im not there yet

EDITED Apr 1st 2021, 16:12

Hello!
Im new to modular and planning my system, I´m going DIY for the case.
Im considering either 2 long rows, or 3 shorter.
I was wondering why is there a 168 HP limit in Modular Grid ?
168 is not enough for 2 rows. Is there any technical issue im not aware of?

thanks!

for now i have ditched the ES-9(might add it again though)but i ordered a blood cells d.o.mixx https://bloodcellsaudio.com/products/domixx

that should give my multitrack recording.also ordered the acid rain navigator,next thing on my order list is the tetra and tete

@ GarfieldModular

For the Erica Synths - Black 8 Multi, maybe you can find it in Greece :
https://www.synthesizer.gr/Erica-Synths/erica-synths-black-8-multi-v2

and at Thomann (the link don't work) :
Search "Erica Synths Black Multi"

EDITED Apr 2nd 2021, 10:36

I've replaced the LIP with a few useful utilities - alternatively the matrix mixer, links and a wmd/ssf toolbox would also work well

personally I would consider either an extra row almost exclusively for utilities and maybe a bit more modulation - a function generator or 2 perhaps or reducing the size of some of the modules by replacing with similar smaller modules - the mixer and the attenuator perhaps seem a little on the large size as does the sequencer (which could go into a control skiff)

a decent selection of utilities will massively open up the capabilities of your synthesizer, they are the inexpensive dull polish that makes the expensive shiny modules actually shine and stops them tarnishing

Hello,

This is my current rack and I really love my case and all the modules, I think a little bit to replace my Loquelic iteritas percido to something else because I feel that the manis and LIP is taking eachother out a little bit of its hardness and crazyness and thinking of maybe get rid of the LIP.

What would you do? Maybe to replace with a wavetable like PH MK3? or something else? What do you think missing?

It doesnt have to be a second voice such as PH, it can also be 20hp replacement of utilities, modulation, switched and such.

Thank you so much in advance,

EDITED Apr 1st 2021, 09:37

Some demos I made:

Same here and now that Endorphin.es Ground Control has finally launched that interests me more as a sequencer.

From my personal experience the only modular brand that has sucked in terms of poor support has been MALEKKO!
Everytime I called/emailed them there was ZERO and I do mean ZERO response. BOO! Not sure why they stink so bad?
Other modular companies that I contacted like Intellijel, Make Noise, WMD, and Noise Engineering always helped me patiently with my questions and support issues. Heck, I even had Scott Jaeger of IME/Harvestman and Rick Burnett of Erogeneous Tones reply to my emails directly. At least my Malekko modules still work. I love my dual Borg filter.

chromagnons still haven't shipped - that's just a place holder - sometime this summer would be nice

BeetTweek is a Eurorack format DSP module designed to give musicians a new way to interact with musical control signals (CV) with a force feedback knob. Rhythmic signal CV signals can be used to "pulse" the knob, giving the musician a unique feel for the music they are creating or parameter they are controlling. Knob rotation, speed and other parameters can be used to control other modules and generate interesting interactions that can be felt while turning the knob.
BeetTweek can be configured in many different ways, made possible with the built-in modes and variants, in addition to the modular nature of Eurorack!

webstore: https://submatrixaudio.com

EDITED Sep 11th 2021, 18:49

Thanks Garfield.
I've bought the MI Links, was a decent price.

Say, how are you liking your LZX chromagnon? (assuming you have it already, I seen it in your rack!)

Clones make sense to me...but only from a space standpoint. For example, if you're putting together a build in a 2 x 84 hp cab, it's probably not the best idea to go with a full-sized version...space is at a premium, and you need to maximize functionality over space requirements. But if the build in question is huge, then you can either choose the bigger (and usually original) versions, or stick with the formula above and have more space for...well, more.

to some extent yes - but let's face it it's better to start with the modules and then find a case based on the modules than the other way round

hey, THANKS everyone, this is just the kind of insight and guidance I was hoping to find!

Clones make sense to me...but only from a space standpoint. For example, if you're putting together a build in a 2 x 84 hp cab, it's probably not the best idea to go with a full-sized version...space is at a premium, and you need to maximize functionality over space requirements. But if the build in question is huge, then you can either choose the bigger (and usually original) versions, or stick with the formula above and have more space for...well, more.

Now, as far as QC's concerned...checking the MG Marketplace as well as the "good/bad sellers" threads on the forum is very useful. If you see a builder that appears to be a "problem child", then don't buy their stuff. Keeping an eye on whatever Muff Wiggler's calling itself at present is also very useful, given the concentration of modular users there as well. Between here and there, you should be able to find out about issues, should they exist.

Also, some stuff just LOOKS like refried ass in general. This sometimes indicates that what's behind the panel is substandard...but certainly not always. Noise Reap's stuff, f'rinstance, does have a rough look to it and one might be tempted to give it a pass...but that would be a mistake, since Noise Reap's cooked up some amazingly useful (and sometimes amazingly twisted) circuitry that most anyone can get an excellent result out of. So as far as they're concerned...they're doing something right, so take what they give, ugly panels and all. I wouldn't want them to change ANYTHING. And there's plenty more examples of this out there...

Again, this all gets back to the old "caveat emptor" issue...if you're going to be a customer, be an INFORMED one. Do the research, see what others say and have experienced, THEN proceed.

I messed with it for a hot minute, then gave up. I think you might need to go back and research the way you want your MIDI signals dealt with, as there's an awful lot of MIDI-specific things going on here that seem superfluous (such as, if you have an ES-9, why ALSO have a separate CV-MIDI converter module?). Also, I don't get the excess external preamps...especially since I don't also see an envelope follower, something which you will 100% want for picking off dynamics as CVs. Basically, the "if this were..." argument seems moot to me, as this isn't how I would've started in the first place.

I strongly suggest going back to square one here. If you have these modules on hand already, especially the ES-9, go back and see how that one module alone supplants all of these unnecessary MIDI-based things. Given that I have something similar in my modular "sandbox" here (a MOTU 828 mkii + Ableton CV Tools) I can confidently tell you that you're piling a lot of unnecessary stuff into this build. And if you must use MIDI over the more precise and modular-friendly CV/gate/trig I/O of the ES-9, just use its MIDI expander, which is already in the build.

hello
i am wondering if we can use the time warp module as a shuffle generator by sending a trigger in the input and have different value of swing by turning the corresponding rate knob?

thank you

Yeah sent them an e-mail in the meantime I've initiated an exchange for a new unit. Thanks again for the help!

could be - maybe it's time to contact ACL support see what they have to say!

Thank you for the help!

I just tried taking out all my modules except my vcos and lfos and output module, checked the ribbon cable, and still same. Would seem I received a lemon.

...You can usually get a good idea about the quality and reliability of very specific modules over on the MuffWiggler forum. I don't really think there are inherently good or bad manufacturers or modules.
...
I do tend to shy away from DIY modules that other individuals have built, probably unjustly. The clones I have gotten from After Later have been great, but I'm not sure I trust DIY from a random individual.
-- farkas

Yes to all of this.

I bought a few DIY modules that were faulty, in a non-obvious way. In most such cases I didn't research enough to have a clear idea of what to expect. There are a few respected builders here who deliver premium build quality. such as RTFM. No problem ever. On the other hand I bought a module from Russia that really looks home-made, rough and raw alu front plate with handwriting on it. And it, too, performs flawlessly since the day I got it.
Most problems I had came from a lack of research or bad judgement on my side.
Make sure to have buyer's protection if you are not sure if you trust a seller, DIY or not.

maybe sound sources at the top, modulation and utility in the middle and sequencers, mixing output on the bottom row, from left to right - but this is your modular - arrange it how you want it

seriously you have so few modules and so much space it doesn't matter at all - stop worrying about it and play with it - if you find that you want to patch x module to y module constantly consider moving them next to each other - no 3m cables needed - no panic!

have you tried taking everything else out of the case - except minimal modules you need to test the sinfonion with?

just to double check - when you 'checked' the power - you checked that the power cable was correctly made as well as inserted correctly at both ends

what case/power is it?

what else have you in the case? - post link to public rack url

same here

I don't much see the argument for buying clones in order to save money - you're not going to save that much from what I can see - especially in terms of the total cost of the modular (1 or 2%) - maybe a night in the pub or something similar - maybe it means that you have to wait an extra month to get the module - is that such a big deal - 1/2 the time you have to wait because there are none available anyway

I'm not american, but I do see it as similar to going into a restaurant in the US and when paying the bill shaking the waiters hand and thanking them very much for their service - but not leaving a tip - and not accidentally like a european who expects that person to be paid properly and not need the tip - but deliberately and knowingly

BUT that's just my opinion and I bear no ill will to anyone making clones - and I believe that at least some of them have offered money and had it turned down

space is also similar to a large extent - not enough space in the case - get another - you were saving your pennies (piggy bank for next case) when buying modules for the last case weren't you?

ergonomics is another factor - the number one rule of cloning seems too be make it smaller - well imo they are small enough already - the only clone that appears to have done this in any way that maintains the ergonomics is pachinko - and not having seen one in the flesh or played with one - I don't know but to me Marbles seems about the right size for Marbles, etc etc

there are ways to find reliable builders - muffwiggler's Music Tech DIY subforum Stickies

it's not that difficult to learn to solder - especially as there are online workshops - such as the Music Thing Modular Control build that Thonk hosted at the weekend - not perfect if you have to buy tools up front too - but actual events may start up again at some point in the future - I learnt at Dutch Modular Festival 2018 (i think) I bought a 50€ kit and built it there had a quick lesson and checked etc - I've now built about 60 modules - DIY does not save money - it means more modules for the same money, eventually

re: FR4 panels - they're not that bad really not got any big ones but small ones seem fine - and I wouldn't see that as a show stopper - it's actually a decent way of shaving a few quid off the costs - aluminium panels are not cheap!

in terms of quality of components - 99% of the time it will be the exact component as described in the bom or the nearest available (mostly identical) part from a major supplier most of the time - because that's what's in the BOM freely available and almost always selected as the cheapest part that will do the job properly - there are some end of lifed components - but most of these have similarly priced alternatives - the big area where worse quality components are substituted (and this is debatable to some extent) is the move from pots to trimmers - generally pots are bolted to the panel and soldered to the pcb - which massively helps in terms of structural integrity - trimmers can only be soldered and not bolted - but saying that I have a fair few reasonably high end modules that have pots and no bolts - but then there are almost always screws holding the panel to the pcb in order to compensate - but trimmers also often reflects a reduction in size which then makes the modules horrible to use... but it massively reduces the cost - from memory a trimmer is roughly a third of the price of a pot and knob

The only module that I have where I have 'issues' is Maths - neither channel 1 nor channel 4 function outs like being patched to non-buffered inputs (apparently all make noise modules have buffered inputs) - but not a biggie! like the issues with the 6hp endorphin.es modules - it may be power related...

I am maybe interested... but 100% busy with other things right now. Is there a deadline?
-- the-erc

Still 2 days left if you are interested.

Just following up on this. Comp is out April 2nd. Accepting tracks all the way up until the deadline.

Thanks!

I’m with Farkas, it’s mostly a matter of finding the right tools for the job. There are differences in quality, but that’s also a matter of personal preference. Take the panel: some builders use sturdy aluminium, others FR4 / plastic. The same counts for the chips, the pots, etc. But most top quality brands are twice as expensive as their alternatives, and pretty HP heavy. I’m afraid you’ll have to do your research for every module. And you’ll probably still have some surprises: not all modules play as well with modules from other brands. Eurorack is a bit of a wild west situation..
And about noise: don’t underestimate the importance of a good power supply! A power conditioner in the studio can also help.

Hi Nicholas. In my experience, it really does come down to personal wants and needs. If something is advertised as "lo-fi," it's probably going to sound and react "lo-fi", and it's up to you to decide whether that is right for your rack. Do as much research as possible to avoid spending money on things that aren't right for YOU.
You can usually get a good idea about the quality and reliability of very specific modules over on the MuffWiggler forum. I don't really think there are inherently good or bad manufacturers or modules. For instance, I like some of the Endorphin.es stuff, but many users have had trouble with noise on some of their 6hp modules. I have had no such trouble with my Milky Way 6hp fx. The Furthrrr Generator by the same manufacturer is outstanding and fairly well regarded. It may be a matter of consistency and firmware on their digital modules.
I do tend to shy away from DIY modules that other individuals have built, probably unjustly. The clones I have gotten from After Later have been great, but I'm not sure I trust DIY from a random individual. That's my personal preference. I know there is a semi-well-known Mutable clone builder (who shall remain nameless) that many have had trouble with. Not so much module quality, but actually receiving their modules from this particular builder. I ordered a Triple Sloths clone from this builder and received the runaround and claims of "lost in the mail" until I opened a dispute. Many others have had the same experience with this builder. I would lean towards supporting the original designer and manufacturer instead of buying too many clones. Of course, space is always an issue so the clone thing is a personal choice.
Overall, the only "bad" modules I've purchased have been the ones that I didn't research fully. They did exactly what they were supposed to do, but that specific sound/interface/function was completely wrong for my setup and workflow.

Hey All, thanks for your feedback!

Hello,

The Sinfonium appears not to be working properly. I followed the manual to a tee and no luck. I'm experienced user and have done all the typical trouble shooting.
1. checked power
2. double checked instructions
3. all my other modules are performing correctly, tuning v/oct, my other quantizers are working, my sequencer is performing as usual, envelopes, lfo etc.
4. The root knob doesn't do anything and the module doesn't respond to incoming lfo, tried different lfos , different frequency ranges but nothing changes
5. I check with my tuner and the sinfonium outputs do not pass any signal
6. the screen appears to work although I cannot navigate to all the different keys for instance it says to go to key of c and the knob range stops at d at the bottom left.

Help!

Hi folks,

As I'm getting into modular, I'm struck by an overall question: are there bad modules / brands / clones to avoid?

I've scanned the "most used" and "best reviewed" modules on MG. Also done some Google searches for best / favorite modules; those generally align with the MG rankings. I see a handful of brands bubble to the top of the "best reviewed, most used" modules lists. But as I scan Modular Grid and read posts / racks posted by much more experienced modular synthesists, I see a TON of various modules and brands being used, and quite a lot of clones, which provide some advantage on $, HP or availability.

I'm hoping to avoid "bad" modules -- "bad" might mean: i) unwanted noise ii) lacking important performance precision (e.g. poor pitch tracking, etc.) iii) poor durability / build quality / prone to failure iv) and maybe some other demerits.

So, what would you say to me and other newbies:
-- are there obvious brands to stay away from?
-- are most clones as good as originals?
-- or does a buyer really need to check every module for user ratings and press reviews?

Of course there is "bad" in terms of less-than optimal in $, performance, HP, or for a given use for specific purposes, but I expect I'll need to continue to research / evaluate modules for "strong fit."

I'll appreciate your ideas on this!

Thanks all,

Nicholas

link the actual build
-- Lugia

Should be fixed now. Thanks again!