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Here are my thoughts. I didn't read any others so there may be overlap.

Here are the different solutions.
1. Remove one ES Disting Mk4.

2. Remove the precision adder.

3. Buy a cloned version of Plaits that is 4HP smaller.

Do you mind sharing what you had connected to the various CV outputs for the sequencers and drum gates?
-- jb61264

Sure! Here are the elements I find most interesting.

The BeatStep Pro (BSP) drum sequencer is controlling a Boss DR-670 for those awesome 90's drums via the MIDI out. I use the roller pad to manipulate the IDM-ish drum patterns on the fly.

The Mother 32 provides the primary underlying melody for all sections. It runs through an Endorphin.es Milky Way for reverb saturation and is given that classic delay during the Berlin School style mid-section by an Erica Synth Pico DSP.

I had the idea of running the Joranalogue Filter 8 at audio rate for a really nice sub bass. The notes of this bass are drawn from the M32 KB out, and the rhythm is achieved by taking the gate from the M3 and running it through a Stoicheia euclidean rhythm module by Rebel Technology. This gives the gate for the envelope of the bass via one side of the Doepfer dual ADSR. I really like this effect because the bass and the melody are in sync and key, but the notes are not too often repeated on the same beat giving variation.

The SEQ 1 of the BSP sequences the Circuit Bent VCO, which provides the overlying melodies of the first and last sections. This VCO has a built-in filter, but I also run it through a Doepfer Wasp for that amazing color, which is best demonstrated in my view at the 25:05 mark. This then runs through the Mimeophon for stereo pread into right and left VCA mixers (a WMD Triple Bipolar VCA and a AI Synthesis Quad VCA). Note that when I use the roller pad to manipulate the drum pattern, it also glitches Seq 1. The second side of the ADSR envelopes the SEQ 1 melody on the BSP, which allows me to make the notes of the melody stay nice and tight or to stretch the notes out allowing the WASP to really shine. This is also best demonstrated after the 25:05 mark.

The SEQ 2 of the BSP provides accent notes with Rings, which of course goes into Clouds for reverb/delay and granular looping. The looping capture is triggered by the right side pattern of the Stoicheia which is clocked by the Kick cv out on the BSP.

Hope this gives some insight!
FF

Thanks @GarfieldModular. Sinofonion is one I've stayed away from for a few reasons. But I wasn't aware of the chaotic detune function on that. I'll take a closer look.

Really great. What is that 1U unit on top? It seemed to glitch out the running pattern, akin to the phonogene's gene shift knob/cv point.
-- FredFoxtrott

The sequencing is all through composed on the Nerd. The 1U is a Intellijel Quadatt used as a CV source to control a CV addressable switch. Some of the percussion is multed to various signal processing paths in parallel. The switch is letting me select between dry, various FX chains and muted. It will be eventually sequenced as well, but for now is under manual control. That’s why the bandcamp track sounds different, besides the better fidelity.

Hi Garfield,
many thanks for your feedback, really appreciate it! i've already uploaded more jams on my youtube channel and will pick out some of them which are worth sharing here:)

nice experience! now i also want to try something like this :)

very nice preview, will check out the finished version on your bandcamp! :)

The Es-9 will take up a lot of space in the rackbrute. I have a es8 + es6 which will give you 10 in which is a lot for a modular rig and also 8 out, This combo will give you an additional 4 hp back. Based on your Wishlist- you will be ok with an es8 to run your audio into Ableton on 4 separate channels.

Even if you want the keep your modular separate whilst you go through the learning curve, Having the e8 is extremely useful as a learning tool as you can use two of your outs with the scope in VCV Rack to view your signals. One equivalent of this functionality in eurorack is the mordax data which is big and will cost around £400

Very nice! I love all the different places this performance went...all the different sounds and drum parts worked very well together IMO. Love seeing that you're using the Beatstep Pro...I just bought one to use with my setup. Do you mind sharing what you had connected to the various CV outputs for the sequencers and drum gates?

I actually bought the QX at the same time as Quadrax. It was pretty cool for patching up some generative kinds of sounds, but it started collecting a little dust and I sold it as I became focused on a more deliberate hands-on approach. I'm not familiar with the CVilization. I'll check into it. Thanks for the suggestion.
I was using the slew limiter function on Disting a lot at first and upgraded to the WMD Time Warp. I'm very happy with my choice there. I use the Time Warp in most of my patches.

@jb61264 Haha. Honestly, you probably make far more innovative music with your 6U Rackbrute than I do with this monstrosity. Lol

I seriously doubt that, especially at this point in my modular journey where I'm still trying to understand how to use VCAs efficiently...lol...most of the cool stuff i'm getting out my setup at this point is from modulating parameters on my Hydrasynth but I've been having more fun lately with using O_C and Disting EX together in the last couple weeks.

Yes, I use Pam's to sync everything. For the most part, PNW is my "start/stop" button and it serves as a master clock. I don't always take advantage of everything it can do but it's probably the most important part of my rack. I mult a few clock signals to the sequencers to keep everything in sync, and use the Moffenzeef Mito, Zularic Repetitor, and Branches for weird clock multiplications, divisions, etc. to trigger envelopes and drums.

Good to know you can use Pam's that way...I'm considering a Rackbrute 3U build to add...Pam's would be the first module I add.
Right now, my Beatstep Pro is my start/stop button to clock sync the Hydrasynth and then I use a couple stackcables from the clock out of the Hydrasynth to clock my Rackbrute 6U.

I don't enjoy menu diving which is why you don't see O&C or Disting EX. I have a Disting Mk4 than comes in handy, but I've mostly invested in modules that specialize in what my favorite Disting algorithms offered in limited form. I'm mostly using it as a side chain compressor or tape delay now. O&C offers a few things that I would like to have, so that might be something to consider.

I'm considering the Disting MK4 to replace the Ladik Slew Limiter in my setup as I believe it has a slew limiting function should I ever need/want to use it...I guess I just don't know enough about using slew limiter yet to know if its something I need a dedicated module for in my smaller setup...for me in just a Rackbrute 6U, the swiss army knife modules seem to make sense.

Warps is my most recent purchase. I haven't settled on a favorite setting yet. I do have Parasites and I've been having so much fun just trying all of the different settings. The binaural doppler panner, crossfolder, ring mods, and frequency shifter have been fun. I've mostly used it on drums, and need to spend more time with it. I haven't even tried out the delay yet, and it's supposed to be really good. I'm shocked Warps doesn't get more love. It was an instant keeper for me, but I have semi-weird taste I think.

Warps is a module that I've probably had the most fun with so far taking out from Hydrasynth and combining it with the internal osc in Warps to get some cool sounds...just need to figure out how to get those sounds to 'jump around' better now.

I do actually have two modules that may be worth considering...one is the QX Expander for your Quadrax...I finally got one for mine after waiting for months for them to be avaialable. The other is a module that I've looked closely at but it might be another 'menu dive' module that you're not keen on...u-he CVilization

As always, you are so kind Garfield. I wish more people, including myself, were as generous and thoughtful in their remarks as you. Thanks for being such a great community member.

farkas

Mission accomplished! :)

lol

I still love my Behringer filters. :P I think I've handed over money to worse causes during my life to be honest.

I'm not suggesting not to buy them I'm saying think about it...
I'm sure I've given money to worse people in the past too, but not knowingly...

& I'm definitely not saying sell any you have - unless you want to...

just like with cars - it's much more environmentally friendly to run your car into the ground than it is to sell it and buy a brand new 'eco friendly' electric one

I was thinking about just how successful their eurorack clones are though as only the SYSTEM 100 140 DUAL ENVELOPE/LFO features on the page of popular modules on modular grid so despite them lauding the stats on Thomann as they do from time to time I'd be surprised if this database doesn't hold the lion's share of people planning their eurorack cases worldwide from experts to newbies alike.

It's hard to tell - I've no idea of the % of modular users who use modulargrid - I bet it's less than 50% - also remember a lot of user have multiple racks on modulargrid - so the most popular isn't necessarily that accurate (see Why We Bleep with Tony Ranaldo)

Let's say they do a Maths inspired module, would it really drastically eat into the market share of Make Noise. I'm not so sure it would.
-- greenfly

not particularly... Maths has already paid for it's R&D costs many times over and it already has a lot of competition from Befaco Rampage and Random*Source DUSG etc etc...

Really great. What is that 1U unit on top? It seemed to glitch out the running pattern, akin to the phonogene's gene shift knob/cv point.

another option is a passive switched multiple...

doepfer do one - Steevio, MylarMelodies and myself use these for combining triggers... in Steevio's words "I've been doing it for years... and it ain't broke out yet!"

I can confirm Farkas' description of the Polivoks II. It's a bit dirty and I can't get it to fully close, but it is quite versatile especially for gnarly bass or lead lines.
A hugely underrated filter in my view is the Pole-Zero by WMD SSF with integrated VCA. It's got a nice small footprint and affords a wide range of sounds from smooth to overdriven saturation. I find myself coming back to it in nearly every patch and use it mostly for polyphonic stuff or leads. The integrated VCA is a nice feature as well and it tracks V/Oct quite nicely.

Backbone of my rack

Am I right in thinking that you could take the rhythms from the zularic and mix them together to get different rhythms out at bus A and bus B dependent on which way you toggle the switches?

-- greenfly
Hi @greenfly. Yep, that's exactly what I use the Short Bus for. I have multiple gate sources that I combine in that module and switch rhythms or add fills by hand. It can lead to some really fun results. And it's a passive module!

-- farkas

might have to get one of those then - I'm using the quad switch at the moment - I take a rhythm out of child 1 and child 2 and toggle between them. I wouldn't mind swapping between them both as that one is passive too.

Thanks for the great suggestions @Jonau. I have REALLY wanted a Subharmonicon since it was released. I wonder what modules I could add to what I already have to get a similar experience. I can get subharmonic divisions with Maths and I have a few sequencers already. Hmmmm... I'm going to look deeper into patching a makeshift Subharmonicon. Great suggestion.
Also, the Sarajewo looks awesome. I have a powerful delay in the 4ms DLD, but something about the Sarajewo is very attractive to me. Thanks for sharing your experience.

I am mainly in Experimental Music.
I use 4 filters :
- (the gentle) Mutable Instruments Ripples (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/mutable-instruments-ripples);
- (the wild) Pittsburgh Modular Lifeforms Binary Filter (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/pittsburgh-modular-lifeforms-binary-filter);
- (the experimental gentle) NLC BBX291 VCF (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/nonlinearcircuits-bbx291-vcf);
- (the unpredictable wild) NLC Digital Filter Simulator (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/nonlinearcircuits-digital-filter-simulator).
They are used in series and/or in parallel depending of the desired result.

EDITED Oct 1st 2021, 08:28

Hi Farkas,
I can REALLY recommend that XAOC Sarajewo you've been eyeing anyway. When you sync it to your PAMs and then step modulate the delay time... man - so many interesting and harmonically rich sounds! And a very hands on unit with absolutely no menu diving involved - which I love!
If you want to put some polyphony into your rack (and maybe sell some of your "outrack gear") I'd recommend Subharmonicon - best inspiration and harmony machine ever! Though it's 60 hp and carries a hefty price tag... Instruo Harmonaig and Saich make a great pair as well. I find it pretty handy to have those polyphonic elements integrated in my rack, but I guess you are good with your external polyphonics, so never mind ;-)

Am I right in thinking that you could take the rhythms from the zularic and mix them together to get different rhythms out at bus A and bus B dependent on which way you toggle the switches?

-- greenfly
Hi @greenfly. Yep, that's exactly what I use the Short Bus for. I have multiple gate sources that I combine in that module and switch rhythms or add fills by hand. It can lead to some really fun results. And it's a passive module!

Hey Farkas

This rack is awesome, so many modules I've never heard of,

Am I right in thinking that you could take the rhythms from the zularic and mix them together to get different rhythms out at bus A and bus B dependent on which way you toggle the switches?

@jb61264 Haha. Honestly, you probably make far more innovative music with your 6U Rackbrute than I do with this monstrosity. Lol
Yes, I use Pam's to sync everything. For the most part, PNW is my "start/stop" button and it serves as a master clock. I don't always take advantage of everything it can do but it's probably the most important part of my rack. I mult a few clock signals to the sequencers to keep everything in sync, and use the Moffenzeef Mito, Zularic Repetitor, and Branches for weird clock multiplications, divisions, etc. to trigger envelopes and drums.
I don't enjoy menu diving which is why you don't see O&C or Disting EX. I have a Disting Mk4 than comes in handy, but I've mostly invested in modules that specialize in what my favorite Disting algorithms offered in limited form. I'm mostly using it as a side chain compressor or tape delay now. O&C offers a few things that I would like to have, so that might be something to consider.
Warps is my most recent purchase. I haven't settled on a favorite setting yet. I do have Parasites and I've been having so much fun just trying all of the different settings. The binaural doppler panner, crossfolder, ring mods, and frequency shifter have been fun. I've mostly used it on drums, and need to spend more time with it. I haven't even tried out the delay yet, and it's supposed to be really good. I'm shocked Warps doesn't get more love. It was an instant keeper for me, but I have semi-weird taste I think.

Yes, I'm using the HDMI/USB expander for the Nerd which gives the video output alongside a USB keyboard in.

A high fidelity preliminary version is up here: https://dspkills.bandcamp.com/track/thermilon

I was left with six blank patterns left out of the 175 available, partially because of my slightly inefficient programming.

I don't really have time to make any review videos or anything like that. I barely get any time to make music as it stands, with a day job and two young kids. And, honestly, I'm not really getting enough views to make it worth my time. I'd rather focus on making music when I can and sneaking a few lo-res phone videos onto YouTube for whomever might be interested.

M

EDITED Oct 12th 2021, 23:56

Wow, I feel so inadequate now sitting here looking at my Rackbrute 6U...lol
So much cool stuff in your setup, there's no way I could begin to make any real recommendations. I don't see anything like a Disting EX or maybe Ornament and Crime which may have some 'different' things for you to play around with since they have so many functions on them.

Couple of questions for you if you don't mind. How do you keep everything 'in synch'? I notice you have Pams, Eloquencer, Arpitect, etc...Do you use Pams to keep everything clocked together? Do you clock things separately but at the same time?...so not clocked from the same source?

Also, how are you using Warps? Do you have parasites firmware installed?

Yeah, I was really trying to channel pink years Tangerine Dream there.
-- FredFoxtrott

Mission accomplished! :)

Haven't shared much about my rack build progress since January I think, so here's a quick update for anyone interested.
Long story short, I started making music again in late 2019 after about 15 years away. Used to have a bunch of old hardware synths, some fairly desirable, and got really burnt out with computer recording so I just sold everything and didn't even miss it for a long time (except for my old Moog Rogue, dammit I miss that thing). I stumbled across some interviews with Genesis P. Orridge and Richard H. Kirk in late 2019 and got really inspired to make electronic music again, mostly just as a conceptual art project exploring repetition, noise, improvisation, and glitchiness. Got into modular because I always loved synths and had some disposable income throughout 2020. Tried a bunch of different modules and sounds feeling my way into eurorack-land, bought, sold, learned what I loved and hated, rearranged, added, removed, bought, sold, and rearranged again... and finally settled into a system I enjoy using. I've got just enough desk space (and cash) to add another 104hp and that should be enough for quite a while (famous last words, I know).
The sounds I really enjoy working with the most come from the years 1973-1983: pretty much simple primitive analog subtractive synthesis and recording techniques in the vein of Phaedra/Rubycon-era Tangerine Dream, Tin Drum-era Japan, Cabaret Voltaire, Depeche Mode, Klaus Schulze, Michael Hoenig, Ashra, Fripp & Eno, early Human League, post-punk and goth... you get the idea.
I don't really gravitate towards granular, "west coast," or digital FM. Basically, I could make the kind of music I like with relatively simple equipment.
So, the rack pictured is what I already have with a few things included that I will be picking up shortly. I am very happy with the layout so no complaints about that. I have some ideas to fill the empty 48hp eventually, but I'm not in any hurry and would welcome your ideas if you think there are any modules that you think might suit the direction I'm increasingly heading in. I already have polyphonic sounds covered with a Prophet Rev2, a B-company VC340 string machine/vocoder, and Roland JV1010. I've got sampling covered with an MPC, so no real need to add that to the rack. I've been window shopping the SSF Vortices "character mixer," WORNG Soundstage stereo field filtered mixer, and Xaoc Devices Sarajewo analog syncable delay. That new WMD Kraken looks pretty sharp too. But I'm totally open to suggestions.
Lord knows I don't NEED any of this stuff, but it's always fun to hear others' perspectives. Thanks in advance for anyone who read this far or has suggestions. Have a great evening.

Hi Fred,

Long time haven't heard from you and now you surprise us with a nice long jam! It's great and nice to see you at work in this video, creating this jam. Lovely percussion and drums parts, looks like I am still light years away from a performance like that!

Yes, Farkas is right, the interlude starting at 14:00+ is great, giving it that extra touch to track, the variety-break. Great moment to do that there, builds up the tension even more, the listener wants more, sitting at the tip of the chair! :-)

That build up just before/around 25:00 is fantastic too, love it! Ha, ha, as well as the short break-stop you make just before 26:00, nice touch too :-)

Thank you very much for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

I still love my Behringer filters. :P I think I've handed over money to worse causes during my life to be honest.

I was thinking about just how successful their eurorack clones are though as only the SYSTEM 100 140 DUAL ENVELOPE/LFO features on the page of popular modules on modular grid so despite them lauding the stats on Thomann as they do from time to time I'd be surprised if this database doesn't hold the lion's share of people planning their eurorack cases worldwide from experts to newbies alike.

Let's say they do a Maths inspired module, would it really drastically eat into the market share of Make Noise. I'm not so sure it would.

Hi Lugia,

Ah yes, Mr. Stockhausen :-) Still need to get a CD from him, it's still on my wish list. Nice to hear him here at work the Rohde & Schwarz UBM filter! Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Nickgreenberg,

The ACL - Sinfonion has a CV controllable Chaotic Detune function (and another Chaotic Note Shuffle function, CV controllable).

If I remember well then you can assign one of the potentiometers as a detune knob too. Download the ACL - Sinfonion manual and look for the details. Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Farkas,

No problem and you are welcome :-)

By the way, did you ever had a look at the Erica Synths - Black Dual VCF module? Great filter too! Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Liquidcolor,

He, he, great track this one (a pity that it is so short), lots of fun-sounds to be discovered and interesting to listen at! Did I see that correctly that you have an external display connected to your NordSeq? Looked pretty interesting, next video perhaps a bit more details on the NordSeq and it's external display? :-)

Thank you very much for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks for saying that. It really does mean a lot. Yeah, I was really trying to channel pink years Tangerine Dream there.

Hi Bleepadelic,

Ha, ha, funny and nice track. Quite amazing that self driving drone stuff coming from your Eurorack system.

Thanks a lot for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Audhentik,

Wow, that's a great nice little track! So beautiful played, nice relaxed yet intriguing!

I hope you post more jams and I can't wait for it to listen at them! Thank you very much for sharing this with us and kind regards, Garfield.

Great work @FredFoxtrott. Well done. I especially liked the 1400 moody interlude. Really enjoyed your performance.
Thanks for sharing.

HI All,

Thanks Farkas, Jim, Nick and Lugia :) I will file the suggestions and look into them further. Farkas it was after reading one of your posts that I got the idea for putting the links and kinks down the side of the case so thanks for that. I think that was a good shout in one of your previous posts.

For now, I think I have managed to sort out a compromise as I am not wanting to invest in another case. I think I may next year when the Buchla clones come out (thanks for posting about that Lugia) but for now I feel I have much more than I realistically need.

I normally use the second Intellijel case for melodies and bass and the first one for drums and percussion. That being said, I can normally get a lot of stuff going just playing with the the first Intellijel case. I can use the BIA for bass and percussion and a solid kick if need be, as well as melodies. I love that thing. The plaits for melodic lines or percussion and the squid for drums and rhythm and there is plenty of modulation opportunities in that case now I've reorganised it. I gotta say the 1u format is a stroke of genius by developers and really helps utilising space better. You can also do a lot with the squid on the last 3 triggers as they have 1v per octave for pitch if the samples are tuned right.

I have moved the mx-1 mixer to the weedy whizz cab and will patch into if it needed which means I can move the RCD to the second Intellijel case. I already have a mosaic mixer in the 1U row so will see how I feel using this more than the mx-1 which I found incredibly useful when patching the output into one of the inputs to drive signals into saturation.

I am using the Quantermain in the O&C for quantizing the different voltages but I also have scale effects in the Hermod for this if required. The metropolis can also be used to set scales but I tend to use the O&C if I am mixing sequencer CV's with random voltages or offsets to get everything quantized.

I don't like heavy wavefolding but can recommend the tanh for this if you like the wave folding to be subtle. The rubicon 2 has a the squish circuit built into it which can be light and I use this regularly and if I need it stronger its a case of setting a jumper on the back of the unit or a trim pot if I recall correctly from the manual.

I wanted to keep the Clep Diaz in the first case as I want to try to see how I can utilise the clep with the nin expander to step through lfo's and see what effect this has on the many envelopes in the zadar. I'm using the RCD a lot with the Quadra particularly with the rotate function which gives me the unpredictability that Nick was alluding to I guess. So for now, the two Intellijel cases look like this with 2hp to spare - any ideas what would be useful? :) I think I might get a 2hp cv mixer there I think.

I am yet to buy the matrix mixer in the weedy whizz cab which I think will be used to set up sends to my ACL delay and fx aid for reverb when I'm not using the ES8.

https://imgur.com/a/k15ySBQ

Regards :)

EDITED Oct 1st 2021, 00:08

Hey @Lugia - I know you know - but others such as @nickgreenberg & @Vow3ll didn't and neither do a lot of the newbies who are buying into the b-company products simply because they are so cheap - a lot of whom would probably not buy their products if they knew about who they were giving their money to - and there are other manufacturers who are making modules at similar price points, and of often better quality, but don't have the marketing budget that Music Tribe has , nor to a large extent do a lot of modular companies want

as I said they are making, in terms of circuitry, decent clones - they are just not going that one step further and actually making them fully eurorack compatible, which if they'd actually listened to eurorack users they could have done, as well as making the front panel furniture of comparable quality with other eurorack manufacturers and still make modules that were (almost as) incredibly cheap as they are doing because of the economies of scale that they can achieve - including getting components at lower price points due to manufacturing a lot of the components they are using themselves

yes he does seem to have shut up recently - I suspect the board of Music Tribe may have had a hand in this and good for them

but Uli shutting up after saying those things does not alter the fact that he said those things...

don't quite a few of the 100 series already exist in eurorack? - Tokyo Tape Music Center and Catalyst/Red Panel for example, ok they are much more expensive than either the b-company or the tiptop/buchla modules, but they are tiny companies in comparison, who can't afford to make huge runs of modules

don't get me wrong I think the availability of, especially, long out of production musical instruments at a low price is a good thing - I just think it's a shame that a company with such a poor reputation has done it... as you've repeatedly said korg deserve to suffer over the 2600... but so do the b-company over their practices...

I forgot one...and it's definitely a "holy grail" filter: the Rohde & Schwarz UBM. However, this ancient tube-driven bit of WDR Cologne's electronic music history (especially in Stockhausen's hands) is VERY screwy. Tubes, of course, are AUTOMATICALLY screwy, but whatever's going on inside these huge gray boxes (I have two) is NOT simple filtering. Push the input, and you get warm, wooly fuzziness. Run up the regeneration control, and the filter first acts LPF-ish, but then gets into a NASTY, ringy passband configuration with that Q rising as the control is raised.

What does it sound like? OK, it's all over this:

along with a few other filters, but the UBM handles the bulk of the load on this work. Frankly, I'd love to see one of the tube-oriented Eurorack companies take on a challenge like this...and it could be lucrative, too, given that there's only a finite number of these still in operation and when one pops up, the feeding frenzy gets INTENSE.

Thank you, thank you!

+1 on farkas' suggestion. Actually, these days it probably makes more sense to NOT use passive mults unless you're putting something huge together, because we now have inline mults, stackcables, and so on. With smaller cabs and skiffs, though, it's far more important to dedicate the case space to ACTIVE devices and leave passive mults as something better dealt with while patching, along with the cables.

Oh, believe me, I'm well aware of Uli's...uhm..."mindset". And he's still apparently on that cavalier attitude of his toward intellectual property. But when you're talking about the synth gear, you find some of the same names here on MG assisting B. in their module and synth designs. For example, you had AM Synths' head assisting with the B. 2600, double-checking the circuitry, functionality, etc to make sure it was dead-on to the original. And yeah...they did that. Aside of form factor, it's the real thing.

My hope is that there might be some changes to this. After the "Kirn fiasco", Uli's been a lot less noisy and/or visible, of which I approve. If Tribe's board of directors would step in to shut him up and curtail his nonsense, I think they'd find that their brands would have a lot more market viability.

Also, don't forget...there's a bunch of REAL modules in there, too...notably the upcoming Tiptop/Buchla collabs. Frankly, what I'd REALLY like would be a full-on 100/200 hybrid, especially since now they can make the 100 series circuitry comply with the de facto "standard" of +5V gate/trig, 1V/8va tracking, and the higher amplitude across the board (ie: no more split paths). Maybe if the docs turn up, we could get some of these to jam in with the 200s; yes, docs ARE the problem...some of the more interesting 200 series modules don't have engineering docs, and Buchla USA has no idea where in Don's archives they might be found. To say that he was a slob as far as records and documentation goes might be an understatement! Hopefully Todd Barton et al can get some of that sorted.

agreed - but don't think that you can avoid the b-company completely...
they make a lot of re-issue ICs etc - which are in a large number of modules, from a large number of manufacturers

EDITED Feb 27th 2023, 07:10

Thanks Jim, make sense!

@Ronin1973,

I hear you on the "superstacking isn't an effect but a design". But I want to unpack/examine that idea as there are some potentially important technical points for recreating this and similar effects.

If we say the goal is the sound of "unison stack detune with stereo spread" then I'm aware of 4 potential ways of getting this or close to it:

1. use a synth or OSC designed to do "superstacking" (as Ronin suggested). Lots of VSTs do this (or very close to it): Serum, Sylenth, Zebra2, Icarus2, etc. Some Eurorack OSCs do this: Chainsaw and a few others. Some hardware does it (Waldorf Quantum and others). One can do a basic version of this with any multi-OSC setup; Moog Model-D with its 3 OSCs slightly detuned sounds great.

2. use an Animator like AJH Wave Swarm or Ladik L-011 Animator. Ladik's text says "Think of it as VCO extension – exact tone tuning ensures your VCO and Animator creates 8 phase-shifted and endlessly moving waveshapes summed to Animator´s output. Sounds like 9 slightly detuned VCOs together, sounds simply FAT (8 shifted waves + 1 original from input). Contains 8 phase shifters drived by 8 LFOs at 8 different frequencies (34 opamps total)." SO, as far as I can tell, the "animator" technique is like mult (of original) plus phase shift, plus LFOs modulating phase shift at very slow rates. The Ladik module has no controls, the AJH module has gain controls and 2 channels (which would allow for stereo / spread effect).

3. use delay-based effects (chorus and similar). While I love chorus and use it a lot, I do not find the chorused sound or controls equivalent to the "unison stack detune with stereo spread" sound or controls. It is close-ish, but often not close enough. The "artificial double tracking" VSTS like Melda MUnison and Waves Reel ADT I am less familiar with, but my understanding is those are also delay-based, and I don't recall those giving a sound like technique #1 above either.

4. use a combination of 2&3 as found in Kilohearts Ensemble. That's the only VST I know of that gives a software implementation including technique #2 above.

So Ronin, I don't really disagree with your point above. BUT I am trying to answer essentially the question: can techniques #2 and/or #4 above produce a sound similar to that of technique #1, e.g. similar to genuine superstacking? OR is there some other great solution I don't know about yet?

Practically, I'm wondering, if I do a sound design session on my rack and come up with this complex OSC chain I'm loving, is there a practical way for me to get the "unison stack detune with stereo spread" version of that sound? I would blow my brains out if I had to try to get a slightly detuned version of a complex OSC chain in 3+ parallel Eurorack voices (e.g. try to manually do technique #1 in Eurorack). I'm hoping something from techniques 2,3,4 above could work. AJH Wave Swarm is top of the consideration set currently.

Thanks for your ideas everyone!!

EDITED Sep 30th 2021, 21:10

historically (and continuing) poor quality - since the start of the company - way, way before they started on synthesizers/modular - currently this goes down to using poor quality glue on card inserts on knobs that fall off etc etc

cloning everything that he can get his hands on - mostly 'authentic' clones - so not a great deal of thought put into it - ie to make them more eurorack compatible

cloning modules that are still currently in production...

anti-semetic etc etc

suing people for giving poor reviews

etc etc

if you want more there's a fantastic thread on modwiggler - it's well over a hundred pages iirc - started to stop people commenting on these sorts of things in the main behringer module threads - which I think is poor judgement on modwiggler moderators part - anyone wanting to find information on b-company modules should have a lesson in the ethics of the company before deciding to buy - it's fine buying whatever you want - but you should at least be informed enough to make a decision!

Would somebody give me (and others not in the know on this) the short-ish polite-ish version of why Uli / Behringer has some negative market perception? Is it just all the clone-gear, or is it more than that?