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Thanks for the tips been playing around a bit more with your advice in consideration and came up with the following. Maybe still doubting abit between uRings and uO_C

Also shoud've mentioned that the sax will go through a boss RC20XL loopstation so i will have time to play with knobs . Not all the time but quite often and could probably set up an aby pedal so i could switch my pedaltrain of doom from my bass rig to the eurorack.
And once I fill out the rackbrute I was considering ordering a Caixa 104 case to fill at a slower pace. especially because it comesz with quite the nice package of built in utilty.

1 more question there was mention of some unethical companies, could you maybe elaborate a bit? new to this world as you'd expect by now and not completely up to speed here.

Greetings F

EDITED Jun 12th, 22:27

There seems to be three goals going on here at once:

1. Play saxophone through modular tools and effects to alter its sound.
2. Play saxophone and have it trigger samples and synth sounds in the rack.
3. Play saxophone alongside synths and samples being triggered/played by the rack itself.

If your goal is to do all three of these, I would focus the first row (at least) that you try to put together entirely on goal 1. The Minibrute 2S can cover sounds for now, and I can't imagine you not having another easier way to do samples for now. For now, think about a) getting the sax sound into the modular in a way that sounds acceptable to you and b) modulation. The last one is the main thing missing here: the main reason to do this instead of pedals is the way modulation moves and shapes the sounds in unque ways. I would save extra synth voices and samplers for later and just focus on getting the sax and Minibrute 2S to play together. As for input, also think about emvelope following - turning the amplitude of your sax signal into modulation is a huge part of the potential fun here.

This one has some promising elements. The Barback and Knit are probably unnecessary, but could come in handy for later. Instead, that space might be better served by a Maths, a quad/multi VCA and attenuator, some logic stuff, a mult - the stuff that sounds boring but kind of makes systems workable and flexible. You also may want to look into something to convert modular voltages so they're safe for pedal expression inputs - if you already have pedals, there are many ways to bring them in on the fun here.

I saw you put the Meta-Module in there. Have you tried this concept in VCV Rack yet? Or even with an Empress Zoia or Poly Effects Beebo? Not necessarily as an alternative, but even just as a place to demo patches/module concepts, experiment with them, and potentially cover some ground that would be difficult and expensive in modular (that met. Especially since you'll be busy playing saxophone and not turning knobs as much. I had a Beebo and not only does it have a lot of ports of Mutable Instruments stuff like Plaits, Rings, Marbles (all stuff you have here), but you can use it as a MIDI controller to send Eurorack-style modulations to different MIDI CCs on stuff you may already have.

OK

Generally I think you're trying to do too much in too little space in the 3u racks... by that I mean not enough support modules per voice - & rememeber your inputs are also a voice..

general thoughts on micro versions of mutable modules - poor ergonomics kill enjoyment + trying to tune modules with trimmers is a hopeless and horrible task...

O&C - what do you think you will use this for? I'm not a big fan of these all in one multifunction modules - you can only use 1 or 2 functions at once and the UIs are compromised - simple functional modules are better everytime imo - although using htem as I method for working out what modules you actually need and then replacing that functionality is a valid method of learning - but then I would recommend having the free space in the rack to allow for that - which you haben't - & yes I do own a disting mk4 - it's almost always been used as a tape delay

notes from 1st rack (starting at the top):

Not convinced about the ADDAC input module... you mention both sax and bass... you'll need a mic for the sax, won't you? in which case I'd look at the befcao instrument interface... it can handle mic (including +48v phantom power), line and instrument level & has useful functionality like envelope following and gate extraction... disting ex is also useful here as it has one of the better pitch extractoin algos...

erica black output is way too big (and possibly completely unnecessary) for this size case - takes up way too much valuable rack space - but then so does the rack wart (a pet hate)

in a rack this size, if you want to use things like overdrives and compressors - I'd get a pedal interface (AI synthesis for example) and guitar pedals - potentially cheaper and don't waste rack sppace that'd be better used for more modulation, more filters, and most importantly utilities!!!

notes from 2nd rack:

as above where relevant plus - no envelope follower in disting mk4 iirc, maths - great module but rack too small for it imo, mixer also takes way too much space... other modules are too small on average... remember 1hp =0.58mm or 1/5" of an inch!!!

notes on 3rd rack:

as above where relevant plus - I really don't like these digital modular in a module modules - they're the absolute antithesis of modular synthesis to me - which tends towards knob per function & discrete modules that you patch together with patch cables etc - if you want something like this a laptop and vcv rack is a much better option in my opinion - even if it is connected up to the modular via something like an es9

notes on 4th rack:

same as above where relevant plus - kind of better in that it's bigger - but way too many sound sources!!!! see my signature!! read it, think about it for a considerable period of time... then apply what you have learnt to this rack...

and seriously consider your options when buying modules - you can give your money to known bigots (I believe the modern american term is edgelords - but I'm old and British) or you can give it to people who aren't - one modukle in this rack is from a company owned by a known bigot, infamous for making rape jokes in online forums... but it's your choice... most modular manufacturers are not in this category - as far as I know it's just 2 manufacturers...

also experience with fx aids - great modules - but imo the xl (or regular versionl) isn;t very practical without a cheat sheet - the pro is usable without a cheat sheet and if you set them up correctly the pro can be used as a cheat sheet for one or more of the other fx aid modules... screens are far better than leds for determining what algo you are using!!!

notes on 5th rack:

same as above where relevant plus - nothing that makes sense in terms of an actual modular synthesizer - all of this could be done cheaper and probably better in pedal form... nothing that leverages what modular is good at - modulation and utilities - or in terms of the effects - not a lot of modules that take modulation well or are that interesting... modulatable granular, delay reverb etc...

again see my signature: read it and think about it until you understand it... then apply to building a rack...

as a start: a sound source (instrument interface), a sound modifier, a modulation source (maths is great, see below), a quad cascading vca (you can never have too many vcas & the above racks are bereft of them) & some utilities - at a minimum something like a happy nerdiong 3 * MIA and some patch cables - buy no more than this to start! and add very slowly and with careful consideration

maths: download the 'maths illustrated supplement' work your way through it multiple times paying specific attention to how what and why it is doing what it's doing - as well as just using it as a dual function generator - it'll really help with your patching in general - not just self patching maths!!

Woo is it really have 4 voices?

EDITED Jun 12th, 21:31

So I am quite new to modular synthesizers. And was wondering if these are viable options to start having fun. Or do you think i've overlooked some things?

OK better... so what's the question?

then these two together

copy & paste the urls of your public racks... much easier for us to help you with than fuzzy jpgs...

mouseover infomatics & clickthrough really help when there are 12k of modules to choose from

So I have a saxophone that i've been playing since 6yo. and have the crazy idea to put it through eurorack in combination with synthesizers. I also play bass guitar and have twin yamaha heads so could put out stereo with my stacks even put my pedalchain in my effects loop since my 12 ch mixer is a 6.3 mm vintage studio beaut. The idea is top create somethin in between doom, synth-wave and dark soundscaping these are some of my ideas. I already own a minibrute 2s and rackbrute 3U . Thoughts???

EDITED Jun 11th, 22:22

having built a few 0604 smd, I wouldn't consider 0402 smd... far too fiddly... I have some 0604 boards still to build, but increasingly poor eyesight keeps me away from them!!

I'd just buy a clone... they're only about 40-45 per channel, which is quite reasonable...

veils won't do inversion - the combination of vcas and manual attenuators/attenuverters is very complimentary...

as for an output module - in my 8 years or so of having a modular I've never had one - although the first mixer I bought had a headphone out built in... and I still have that and another mixer with headphone out... otherwise I've often just gone straight into an old yamaha mg10 mixer, without any issues... if I needed balanced outputs from the modular (and you only really need those for longer runs - especially if you are in the UK or EU and the power is decent) then I'd get an output module - otherwise as far as I'm concerned they're an unnecessary waste of both rack space and cash!

EDITED Jun 11th, 17:06

A very quick one today,quickest ever, a passive attenuator/mixer from Zlob. Since it’s passive (no power) it’s just some jacks, pots, and three resistors.
Works as you would expect, controls the voltage of the signal, you can pick up each signal or get the sum. Since it’s passive there is some signal loss.
This would be a very handy unit if you’re really squeezed for power in your portable rack, say, since it just takes space, no milliamps.

Fine build. Good first build if you want to get used to soldering eurorack modules.

Build

the force does filters, effects and mixing.

Thanks for the tip... I thought about the Mutated Veiled that is a Veils 2020 clone but the populated board is out of stock in Pusherman and I don't feel confident soldering 0402 SMD...Might wait a bit if it gets restocked.
When I thought about the 4 VCAs, I thought exactly on using them as attenuators for the Clouds. Will look into the MIA but I understand Veils can do a similar job, right?
I'm trying to not rush into anything so learning as much as I can is the priority now :) Maybe I need an output module too to plug into speaker/headphone/line.

what do you miss?

Maybe it works with your akai force but its seems very uncomplete to me.
I dont get the idea at the moment.

in general:

too much voices and to less of everything else

5 voices and 1 filter?
to less modulation
to less utility like attenuverters and stuff

you mix and master in your laptop?
you use external fx?

I'd skip the single VCAs and invest in a quad cascading one such as a veils clone ... you can never have too many vcas!!!

and I'd add some attenuators/attenuverters - clouds really needs them - specifically for reducing modulation from fulll voltage range to 'tiny little bits' - less really is more when modulation sources talk to clouds! Happy nerding 3 * MIA is a good example...

take a look at my signature... spend some (& buy some I mean considerable) time thinking deeply about it!!!!

it's really helpful for steering newbies into good practices...

I'd tackle this build in 3 phases...

1. Dice(Marbles) + Monsoon(Clouds) + 1 DIY uVCA + Power and Case (TipTop Audio Happy Ending?)
2. Tryfello LFO + 1 DIY uVCA
3. Pixie(Plaits) (or another voice) + Add(replace?) Tryfello with Ochd

I will upload all of the Wiard modules in as high resolution as I can manage. I'm doing rack planning in OmniGraffle right now for my mixed FRAC / Wiard 300 system, and there has to be a better way (this site, this site is the better way). The multi-format rack request is so that I can have Wiard rows and Frac rows saved to the same rack...I assume some other folks with several different formats would also like the ability to show their whole studio on one saved rack? Anyway. I'll do my part, just need the ability to do so.

I'm playing live for the first time this summer. This rack is connected through the es9 to an Akai force wich does sequencing, eq/mix, filtering and effects. What is missing?

The organization of the modules can also change, im not married to it.

Better still, just use proper ISO8601 format everywhere: YYYY-mm-dd

-- igloopoo

Let's start with the marketplace long list!

Any experience with this module?

EDITED Jun 10th, 12:58

Do you mean Effect, OSC/Sound generator, Sampler, or Utility module?

EDITED Jun 10th, 12:56

https://modulargrid.net/e/joranalogue-audio-design-transmit-2
Is it a good module to convert mono OSC to stereo
Is it good for some sort of mixing?
Thanks

ok thanks so match

The Nerdseq. It turned my modular stuff into a proper setup rather than just a collection of bits I liked, but it did so without making my music too unnecessarily normal.

Morphagene

.
...Better still, just use proper
ISO8601 format everywhere: YYYY-mm-dd

-- igloopoo

one size to fit them all. IMHO.

EDITED Jun 8th, 20:23

Does anyone know if there is a varient of a MakeNoise / Mutable Instruments style knob that would replace a straight shafted Davies knob?
I have the lovely M1 Mixer from DPW but my clumbsy fingers get in the way of the tightly spaced knobs.

Cheers

I think all my effects will normal a mono input but some effects will further Stereo-ize.
Mimeophon has some nice ping-pong style features and it will also put the delay in the opposite channel to the initial signal.
Clouds has a knob for stereo seperation.
ZVERB is only mono-in but Stereo out.
Veno Echo does all sorts of stereo fun from a Mono input.
Pico DSP is mono in and Stereo out, think that depends on the mode you have set.

It really depends on how the designer has implemented it, and works on a module by module, and algorithm by algorithm basis...

you really need to read the manual for the specific module

usually the left input doubles as a mono input... some stereo algorithms on some modules (often reverbs) will only take a mono input (and some will use the right input for something else - clocking for example)

some modules will output a signal only on the left output, others will just make a copy of the mono input and send it to the right output (this potentially means that they work as a dual mono output - the same signal is sent to both the L & R outputs) and others will 'stereoise' the mono input (usually by adding a slight delay) - so that the diffeent signals are output from the L & R channels...

samples
-- robinhase

I'm also concluding that the bitboxes are just for manual clip launching... so basically the only thing interesting is maybe what the er301 is doing?

I am new for modular synthesizers. The question is what will happen if the mono OSC is connected to the stereo effect. Wet sound at the output will be mono or stereo?

We uploaded another session on our soundcloud.

This is about an hour long. This one has some wild and epic vibe.

And yeah, I suck at keys, but it was real fun

https://on.soundcloud.com/fsxDmgrxu5Y8J65Y9

EDITED Jun 7th, 06:17

Date Formats.

I'm not in the USA but date format in the marketplace long listing is USA format: mm/dd/YY.
Only two countries use this!

As the site already automagically senses TZ could it use that to format the date to suit the TZ?

Better still, just use proper ISO8601 format everywhere: YYYY-mm-dd

Oh, that Cizzle does look like a useful module. I was looking for the dual tones for the rack theme. This was just my first patch using the Casor & Pollux, def want to get into some of the dreamy synth lead lines next.

I dread to think what would happen if i picked a guitar up, probably a bar of 'Smoke on the Water' !

Nice, I ended up selling my Castor & Pollux I think I was/am chasing different sounds, quite fancy the ALM Cizzle.

Cheers @FredFoxtrott

This is awesome! Nice build.

A sequencer would be very low on my list to add-on to this synth,
-- ku14
Point taken, thanks for yoir feedback

For me so far it's easily been Mannequins' Just Friends. It's my first Mannequins and man, the thing is amazing. It squirts out all kinds of different sounds depending on how/what you modulate it with, or it can be a flexibile modulator itself. It reminds me a bit of the Joranalogue Orbit and the Mutable Instruments Tides, but I find it way more fun than either of those ... I just always seem to get it to spit out something that sounds cool to me. Looking forward to trying a Mangrove.

Any favorite pick ups from the first half of the year?

Although their claims obviously haven't been verified in a court of law, I'd imagine most of these "intellectual property" snobs have downloaded music or samples and have not paid the artist who made them, but apparently that's different. Typical hypocrites. If they want to overpay for items to seem "cool", bless their hearts. I'll keep the extra money in MY pocket where it belongs :)
-- AlphaGrayWolf

Not overpaying, simply investing in small passionate companies who don't have Behringer's resources but who have actual vision and HQ products, instead of a corporate behemoth that's openly ripping them off. The history of Behringer being a generally amoral and all around sucky company is well documented if you look into them, I wouldn't pay them a dime. Be a corporate simp and buy up their cheap-o knock-offs if that's all you can afford, but Xaoc has my support 100%. Good company, good customer service, quality innovative products. (And yeah btw, downloading music and not paying the artist IS different and a lousy analogy, but that's a whole other tangent/discussion).

A sequencer would be very low on my list to add-on to this synth, I mean how much time have you put in with the Matriarch's onboard sequencer so far? I was originally thinking "brand new to this synth" and the follow-up questions have me thinking "brand new to all this stuff in general." What do you find lacking or hindering when you sequence the Matriarch right now? I wouldn't buy another sequencer without being able to answer that question, and appreciate the fact that you're about to more than triple the total cost of this Moog set-up through filling 300HP of modules, so you should really hesitate to grab $600 or $1000+ modules that you're feeling wishy-washy on. There are a lot of extremely nice external sequencers in this price range that run circles around anything in eurorack.

No experience with the Metropolix. You could use voltage adders and switches to get chords going from a single sequence and quantizers may have this built in. That Sinfonion is built off the Harmonaig, which would be closer to "making sense" with the Matriarch if you must have your chords generated from a racked module and not the keyboard or something else. Just remember that the synth's keyboard isn't going to behave normally while you're sequencing the oscillators. Look at the Behringer 1027 as a much cheaper option.

I would stick with the more basic toolbox modules mentioned above and then see how you feel after a month or two. The Matriarch's magic is coming from the base component modules. You could go nuts with envelopes and mixers and companion VCO's and make it behave polyphonically if you wanted to but you'd be halfway to the price of a moog ONE with 1/4th of the voices. So really imo at this stage it's better to get some time with the synth and see what you keep reaching for while patching rather than to whiteboard it to death if you're submitting things like the Sinfonion as a question.

If I had to come up with a partner 120hp row to permanently sit on the Matriarch it would look something like this. These modules tend to get the most mileage with the synth.
-- ku14

Awesome, thanks for that response....I happen to just order a Matriarch case for mine from Erik Needham Woodworks....it will have three rows of 150 HP....2 x 3U and 1 x 1U....I'll have the Zorx Electronics 1U CV Bus and Bus Expander...as well as their 1U Through module which does what that Back 2 Front module does...I considered adding the ST Modular Toolbox 1U to fill in that 1U row.

Definitely looking at Batumi and considered Triple Sloths (and maybe another cool NLC module).

Any thoughts on what might be a good sequencer to throw in there? I was considering Metropolix

Also considered (if I could find one) a Sinfonion...maybe overkill for using with the Matriarch?

If I had to come up with a partner 120hp row to permanently sit on the Matriarch it would look something like this. These modules tend to get the most mileage with the synth.

The rear panel module is very useful and is so cheap that something equivalent should have been included with the synth.
She desperately needs more mults and attenuators/attenuverters.
Chaos/random CV (I use Wogglebug and Sloths).
More LFOs or envelopes and a VCA/mixer or two to help with those.
Ring mod if you like it, imo much better with something external to free up the built-in modules.
A high pass filter so you can run mixer -> hpf -> stereo lpf.
Your favorite stereo effect or a pedal interface module like strymon's AA.1. Patching from the filter -> your effect -> back into the matriarch's delay is a dream for example.
Lots of options for this since the Matriarch feels so "finished" in most ways to me, really depends on what you are doing with it and where you want to go. A Pam's might be an easy suggestion for some people but I don't really sync up that much modulation with the Moog in practice. It does so much work on its own that I find myself mostly using "the more basic stuff" to augment it.

Comments Go Here

Wondering if anybody else here has a Matriarch that they use with their eurorack and if so, what modules do you feel really go well with it?

Voice Patch Notes

Moog Subharmonicon to Steady State Fate Dipole [with incoming cv from Xaoc Zadar] to Intellijel Quad VCA [to use as pre stereo attenuator] to Qu-Bit Aurora out to Left and Right channels.

Winterbloom Castor & Pollux to Joranalogue Compare 2 to Arcus Audio VCA [with incoming cv from Xaoc Zadar] out to Canter channel.

Guitar into Boredbrain Injectr to Schlappi Engineering 100 Grit toMutable Instruments Clouds to Endorphin.es Milky Way out to Center channel.

Mother 32 out to Center channel.

Here is my new spectral harmonic three tier rack featuring a Subharmonicon, Qu-Bit Aurora, Castor & Pollux, Injectr, and Dipole. I absolutly love it. Please come check out my first sketch using them together. Premiere today at 2PM EST:

Hi everyone,

I have some substantial bills coming up and need to move some gear, wouldn't normaly ask and I hope this is okay, I don't want to be annoying so I will only ask once.

Please take a look at my items for sale, I am open for sensible offers and yes I guess you could take advantage of my vulnerable position if you are that way inclined.

I also have a Roland R70 for sale - recently replaced the internal battery and gave it a good clean - there are one or two spots where the control labels have worn off but otherwise in excellent full working condition - perfect for those early Autechre drum rolls - you know the ones - very siliar to the R8 they used - £350

And a norns clone - Fates - brand new - lovingly built by my own hands to a very high standard - thoroughly tested. Currently has three knobs but has the capacity for a fourth knob for compatibility with other operating systems. Smokey grey acrylic case. Looks super nice! £400

If you are looking for some new music, I have a tryptych on bandcamp. The 3 LPs kel, mettle and scope are a complete work and stand listening from beginning to end if you like this kind of thing. I have had excellent reviews from the few folk who have taken the time to settle down and give them a good listen. It's kinda 'got to be in the mood' music I guess, but it is all live takes of performances on modular synths so 100% at home here. Please check it out, the whole discography is only £13.65 and if you want a discount on that you can get 20% off with the code 'modulargrid' without the quotes.

There is also a hint at future work in the Frozen Fractures release, separate from the 3 LPs.

https://kelaudio.bandcamp.com

Despite everything, I will still honour the charity release cash going to the food hub if you just buy that!

Any support is very much appreciated.

If there's nothing for you here then I sincerely wish you well and hope you have a great day