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Thats great. Lovely sparkling Sounds!

And, yeah I know that too when recording. I also get in this flow every time. I never look at a clock when recording, but usually I always end up at around 9 Minutes :-)

Thanks for the input, gang. I've got some more research to do.
I'll post any interesting experiments here.

Hey. Here is a new track I recorded live on my modular - maybe a bit over long?.....but you know how it is when you get in that synth zone! Time seems to disappear in to the aether.

Hi,

Mangu solved the issue.
You must power on the Sweet Sixteen after the Disting.
I've plugged it on another psu.
You can try this kind of thing:
https://www.modularsquare.com/shop/wmd/soft-start/
It's another solution.
I didn't try it.

Pull up enabled on the Sweet sixteen and disabled on the Disting.

Cheers

I have the same issue!
J

i have been buying a few modules on the marketplace recently from these nice fellow wigglers: @dillerfrans , @Zucker , @Tito , @talkboxert , @dork173 , @vingtdieux , @racooniac , @ulleks , @moody , @Zbigniew . thanks + thumbs up.

EDITED Apr 13th 2021, 16:19

I was nervous for my first time buying throw modulargrid, but thanks to @Grooveserfer patient and guidance everything went perfect. Finally got the erica synths sample drum in perfect conditions! Would definitely buy from him again!
🤓

TL:DR would you replace Xaoc Sarajewo with something? Comments about the rack?

For some time now, I've felt my larger modular system gives me so much possibilities to tweak sounds in all sort of manners that it's hard not to get stuck minding over the minute details of a patch. This coincides with a feeling that it would be nice to have a more portable system.

Summer's on it's way and I'm moving temporarily to a much smaller apartment, and I've been devising a smaller 104hp setup to keep me company. The goal of this rack is to have a self-contained system with depth to sequence voices in unorthodox manner, for instance, I love just intonation tuning, so a sequencer / voices with easily changeable temperament is a must.

Some notes about the setup: ER-301 is used as a flexible mixer with some DSP applications. Just Friends used interchangeably as an envelope / LFO / or additional voices when I need them. 1U Multi-FX is only included because the plate reverb emulation is one of the best I have heard, instant ambience generator.

What I'm mostly unsure about and would love feedback about is the Xaoc Sarajewo. I've heard so much great things about it, but it's hard to justify the space in such a tight setup for a mono delay. Any other clock syncable delays that would fit? Chronoblob 2? Experiences with one or both of them you can share?

EDITED Apr 13th 2021, 12:13

Apparent issues? I see zero with this build because none of you know what equipment I have nor my vision, I didn't ask for anyone to comment so I will make them all private from now on. You apparently got nothing better to do then to talk crap of other people's designs you know nothin about on a Saturday, so yes Trolls. And By the way everything you complained about it is in the rig if you looked harder.

EDITED Apr 13th 2021, 11:43

Here's my own attempt. Many ideas stolen from @troux.

Mixing solution :

• SSF Vortices is the main mixer, which is stereo. the main outs go into the MSCL (bus compressor) and then the Isolater for output.
• The four non-kick voices (BIA, Entity, Hats, Disting) get high passed by the Shakmat Hi-Pass and then multed into the Vortices' mono inputs, and also the two 2hp mixers (which are effects sends).
• The white 2hp mix goes to FX Aid for delay/reverb/etc and comes back to a stereo in on Vortices
• The black 2hp mix goes to the Kith Ruina for distortion and comes back via one of the stereo ins on Vortices (as mono). Not sure about this... maybe not filthy enough.
• The Kickall goes into the remaining stereo in of Vortices, (again as mono).

It's a bit perverse to use the stereo inputs for the things which I want dead centre but it makes sense.

Non-mixing additions :

• extra power!
• more passive switches
• I dropped the Takaab SMIX to make space.

I have tried to think about the cable routing, but there's only so much you can do with so much packed into such a small space. And of course I have no EQ anywhere which is not ideal. I was also considering a build around the Befaco Hexmix but, being that bit bigger, it makes doing anything sensible with the effects quite difficult.

@troux @garfield -- I think I will buy a PSU3 from Doepfer and swap out the PSU2. It seems to be pretty easy. But as it happens I have a spare "rack-wart" power module lying around that I can use to tide me over until then.

Exploding Shed has a Tool-Set for this as well -->
https://www.exploding-shed.com/shop-catalogue/tools/

However... they are based in Germany and do not ship everywhere I think...
Aside from the tool itself + shipping being already somewhat expensive...

I've been told by a representative of Cre8Audio that the following tools will work to remove the existing nuts on my NiftyCase :
Philmore NT500
Xicon 382-0006
Can anyone confirm this ? Is there a standard knurled nut bit set available anywhere ? Part numbers, source, weblink, etc ... ?
Thanks in advance.

Hello,
i wrote you a message but i'm not sure you saw it ?
About the hertz donuts.
Anyway let me know :)
cheers

Wowzer Lugia this was a super deep treatise on generative music and synths! I'd love to see a patch guide example to help budding self generative acolytes like myself apply this to our modular systems. My large system has plenty of LFO, VCAs, sequencers and logic modules and even a comparator now. I hope someday to see a book and video series on modular synthesis from you and I'd definitely buy it. I'm finding modules like Mutable Instruments Marbles, Acid Rain Maestro and WMD SSF Toolbox great items to help with self generative music creation on modular.

Hoot! Looking good

Yeah, as I look into it more (and now that I have my actual skiff today) I'm realizing I'm overworrying a bit. I know I'm a little out of my depth with the technical side of electronics, so I'm being super cautious in making sure I'm not overlooking something. Thanks for the link, I will indeed be bookmarking that.

Thanks @Lugia for a super interesting post above!

For others interested in this, you might check out these threads:
-- https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9673 ... see esp. middle of the post where, in response to some questions from me, Lugia posted a 9U 84HP rack and discussion of its generative capabilities
-- https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/9516 ... see esp Farkas's posted video on Generative, and Lugia's larger proposed rack build with comments

I'm interested in continuing to learn about generative modular / hierarchical musical control systems SO if anyone else knows of good threads, vids etc. on this topic, please do add in Replies below.

Great question Garfield,

I would have to wear each on a scale and find out. The MDLR feels heavier as it is solid birch wood than the Doepfer monster case.
The Doepfer base/monster were expensive together cost close to $2800 but with discount cost me about $2300 and not cheap but I figure for all those expensive modules the solid power supplies and case will be worth it. Now I won't have to buy another case for a while until I fill up the 300+ HP and 140HP in the 6u case free.

Hi folks,

Here is my current "midsize rack" design. It is intended for i) EDM lead / bass tones ii) learning modular iii) fun and exploration.

This is the round 3 design, after "just ideas" in February, and an earlier build mockup in March.

The basic design logic:
-- Row 1 is "voicing" with 2 oscillators, 2 filters, a wavefolder, and a little bit of mult utilities in the middle
-- Row 2 middle is "brains" with Vector Sequencer and Scales (quantizer) to the left. I did choose to keep a quantizer (in addition to the sequencer) in the design as I wanted an independent chain to sequence pitch class sets. And I went with Scales over a couple other suggestions as Scales better fits my thinking and workflow.
-- Row 3 is CV (Stages through Batumi) followed by VCA, effects, and signal out
-- tucked in a few other places are attenuator / logic modules (4MS SISM, ADDAC Sum&Diff, Triplatt) to control / mix CV signals; Doepfer narrow mix and steroe mix to let me have a couple chains through the OSC, filters, Wavefolder; and Kinks
-- modules are selected by i) what's inspiring to me ii) what modules will complement others iii) what is in stock (vs. having to wait forever) iv) to keep some "easier to learn" modules involved (vs. having huge manuals for everything)

Regarding layout:
-- I wanted Voicing on top row, the Sequencer in a nicely centered position, effects and signal out in the lower right
-- other items are arranged thinking how I might normally patch them, and where the HP is a good fit

I'm curious:
-- what do you think of this build?
-- would you consider this a deep / fun rack? If yes, why, if not, what changes would improve it?
-- are there clear ways to improve the layout?

Thanks to anyone willing to have a look & kick around some ideas on this. And thanks for the many helpful comments on my earlier posts!

Nicholas

Hi Sacguy71 and Lugia,

Sacguy71: So which case is heaver that Doepfer PMS12 thing or the MDLR 12U?

Lugia: Indeed expensive, hence why I prefer the A-100 LMB/LMS9 set instead, better affordable, but of course doesn't look as good.

Kind regards, Garfield.

So everyone on here is a troll, got it!
-- Hellseeker

No, not really. But if you're going to post a build, and it's got clear and apparent issues, you're going to hear about it. And this one fits right in there...

For one thing, there is an excess of audio modules here. I see several possible audio chains...except for the fact that you've only got five VCAs for this entire build, and you need VCAs for both the audio AND modulation. Five won't cut it. Then there's the envelope generators...as in, there aren't any. Sure, you can use the Maths for that, but doing so is sort of like using your Ferrari Dino to pop around to the Circle-K for some jerky and a Monster tallboy. Also, I see no submixing possibilities (and I refuse to count the Erica Mix/Splits here...mixing implies control over incoming levels, not "jam everything in with no control") at all aside of the three inputs on the Fusion VCF.

Then there's all the tubes. Tubes draw more current than solid-state devices, and tend to require beefier power supplies to deliver it. So, at present this build has a "calculated" draw of 2.4A. Then, to avoid inrush (and tubes do current inrush like nothin' else!) issues affecting the power supply, you would need a supply to deliver 3.2A on the +12V rail alone. And that's going to COST...

But what's here costs already...and unnecessarily so, as well. ARE the tube modules necessary? Are they present from the idea that "tubes = loads of noise" (not really true)? Couldn't you do better (and cheaper [and with less current draw]) with some regular-ish VCOs, a PROPER submixer, and a wavefolder to deal with the distortive waveshaping? Do you have to have these large modules eating up your valuable panel space? Panel space that NEEDS to be filled with all of the various utility and modulation modules that are necessary...but not present here for the most part?

There's a term around here for the problem this build has: "Sexy Module Syndrome". This happens when someone gets all hot-n-bothered about slapping "feature" modules in, mesmerized by the blinkenlichts und tvistenknobs to the point that they neglect the fact that those "sexy" modules REQUIRE a proper complement of the "boring" ones so that they can be used to their fullest. That's what utilities DO. It's VERY easy to build a build like this...but all you get in the end is a very expensive noisemaker, and not a proper synthesizer.

I'd strongly suggest looking at the builds on here that are done by experienced synthesists. There's plenty of them here. Note how they deal with this primary issue. Then, if that's not sufficiently convincing, get a copy of VCV Rack and try putting together a mockup of the above (as best as possible in VCV...although, you can get pretty close). See what it does and doesn't do. Then apply whatever knowledge you can glean from those example builds to the VCV mockup...and you'll notice that, all of a sudden, that VCV build is really acting like a synthesizer.

Thanks @Lugia,

Yeah love having it all in one place and infinite patch options. Now I can really sink my teeth deeper into modular and not buy another module for a long time. The Doepfer rig is quite portable and has great covers/handles to take on the road. I know a guy with two monster cases who does events and he has a very impressive rig. They are expensive but I bought mine on sale and Detroit Modular has point discount program so I saved over $300 for a new monster case. For large travel case, the MDLR 12u is hard to beat. I would however get a lighter case like the Amalgamod or NONO Lander Two 104HP 9U Modular Case for less money that still gives over 200HP for mobile power.

Not too shabby...plus, plenty of "hole" in which to put M0AR!!!

Also, don't be fooled here, folks...that Doepfer rig, even with 1000+ hp, can STILL be put on a backseat of your basic car. Yes, both cabs. I wish they weren't so effin' expensive, tho...

You're not even close to a typical current overload situation. Let's look at the math involved here...

Here's a very useful page...so useful, in fact, you might want to bookmark it: https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/watt-volt-amp-calculator.html All you do is enter two known values, and the calculator fills in the rest according to basic electrical physics. So, in the case of the 1 kW PC PSU, you'd enter 117 V for the voltage, 1000 watts for the consumption in watts, and you get 8.5 amps (and change).

Now, armed with that website widget, start calculating your TOTAL amperage draw for your ENTIRE music rig. Then check your breaker panel and make sure that whatever circuit you use is capable of handling the amperage load. My bet is that you're just fine; solid-state electronics such as what's in music gear doesn't tend to have much of a current draw when compared to motorized devices, devices that involve high voltage step-ups, and the like. In fact, your biggest "amp hog" is probably going to be the main monitor amplifier.

Hi Hellseeker,

Since everybody is a troll here, why did you became a member then? Or are you a troll as well? ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield (yet another lasagne-eating-troll).

Hi Lugia,

Wow, a big thank you for this great essay on generative music! Very interesting to read and very informative.

Thank you very much and kind regards, Garfield.

Kel, you really need to calm down. There's no "there" there. And eexee is 100% spot-on; the term, as I used it, is American "carny speak" for precisely the sort of person who someone pushing a $5k QMMG is looking for, just like carny barkers looking for an easy mark among the midway crowd. Nothing "xenophobic" about it.

Hi The-Erc,

If you buy nowadays a new Doepfer case, it comes with the PSU-3 and that one goes up till 2000 mA for the +12 V, that's in most cases sufficient. I agree with you that the PSU-2 with only 1200 mA for the +12 V can be challenging.

Or you could buy the PSU3 unit and replace that with your current PSU2, I do think that's possible but please check before doing so (in case you are interested).

Kind regards, Garfield.

Thanks Garfield,

I plan to keep the MDLR case next to the Doepfer monster case, and use the mostly empty 6u Doepfer case for jams and travel.
I can throw in Queen of Pentacles and Ground control in the 6u case and maybe a good mixer and some utilities and a complex oscillator and have enough to jam and do sets without killing my back carrying the MDLR case which is heavy! I do have a hand cart so could use that also for the MDLR case.

Hi Sacguy71,

Wow, that's a great nice looking and indeed large setup, the A-100PMB together with the A-100PMS12 standing on top of the PMB! So you have now 6*168 HP = 1 kHP ;-) 1008 HP nicely in one large overview :-)

The MDLR case, are you going to use that for when you are going to meet friends or when you want to move with your modules somewhere else (holiday, laying on the beach or on the hotel's room balcony, in one hand a nice drink and the other hand controlling the modules in your MDLR case)? ;-)

Looks like you got yourself a few nice guitars too! I even don't know how to hold one ;-)

Oh indeed, I agree here with Wishbonebrewery, only 300 HP left, that sounds like a serious problem, so next year you buy another PMB+PMS12 set? ;-)

Enjoy your new studio setup together with these new Doepfer cases, now comes the case-versus-module-planning... where to put which module ;-) Have fun and kind regards, Garfield.

I too wonder if this is a UK/US thing. I've never known anyone to take particular offense to the word 'rube' (in the US). Well ... at least not in any sense relating to xenophobia. And Lugia didn't even use it as an insult ... he used it to mean someone not educated or cultured enough to see through the marketing buzz and snakeoil. Which is what the word means. What would be a better word to use in this context?

EDITED Apr 12th 2021, 22:58

Pittsburgh Modular has some real beefy cases if you can make it work @the-erc, power for days. If not maybe we can get @Lugia to sign off on my Micro Zeus idea from the other day.

Thanks... not the answer I wanted, but better than fire and smoke!

Power Consumption: 963 mA +12V | 425 mA -12V
Doepfer PSU2 : Output voltages/currents: +12V DC/1200mA, -12V DC/1200mA

I still have so many hp left! Never thought uncle Dieter would let me down :(

What a post -- thanks @lugia!

Koan... I had a cracked version of that on my Win 95 PC back in the day. Never could make it do anything good :)

Welps compared to folks like @Lugia and @Garfield, and also modular friends in town, my setup is quite a bit smaller.
My friends have WALLS of modular probably 100k plus in gear. Still when one guy I know did a show he only patched a dozen or so modules out of the thousands in his collection.

It is supposed to be a dance night, but all I know about the venue is that will be "a small club". Unhelpful.

Kitting out the rack in mono will save a lot of hp. That said, unless although I add a second PSU per @troux's suggestion, I'm going to run out of juice before I run out of space!

EDITED Apr 12th 2021, 21:01

MASSIVE! and "only 300hp left" hahaha

EDITED Apr 12th 2021, 20:57

Thanks a lot :)

So everyone on here is a troll, got it!

Thanks, yeah it is huge and lot of room to expand. The great thing about Doepfer cases are that they have nice metal locking covers and handles so with a hand cart, one can transport them around fairly easily. I do have my Doepfer 6u suitcase for jams now so that can make life easier when I do jams at local clubs and friends' places. It also helps me stop G.A.S. to focus on mastering my gear and create fun tracks. Here is a quick ambient jam I made to test the case after moving modules over:

So even after moving my dozen or so modules from 6u case and base case to the monster, I still have 300+ HP left over to grow!
While I would love to get 4ms Spherical Wavetable Navigator & Spectral Multiband Resonator (SMR) plus Xaoc Devices Odessa & Belgrad and lots more, I will slow down and create patches with this monster and my MDLR case and perhaps add few modules at end of the year. I do need more long patch cables to reach between cases however. Also getting Mutable Instruments Beads/Blades would be awesome to feed into Rings and Marbles for ultimate ambient patches.

Great patch! Lot's of things going on, but it is not too busy or too long.

How is using a derogatory term, as defined by the link I sent, against a whole group of people not xenophobia?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/xenophobia

Why am I explaining this?

Why does degree of offensiveness matter?

Why be offensive like that, even just a little bit?

Thin edge of the wedge? Once one person is accepted as being okay to throw slurs around about groups of people, who's to say it's not okay for the next person? Where to draw the line?

I say just don't do it at all!

As I say, what was being said didn't require the use of xenophobic language and it still doesn't.

Someone has to stand up against this outdated and mind-numbingly pointless behaviour, no matter how small it is...

By all means start throwing around the n-word - there are groups of people here in the UK who seem to think that is acceptable, therefore everyone else should accept it right? Er... no!

In fairness to Lugia, that's not xenophobic. Derogatory, perhaps, but not xenophobic. 'Rubes' is pretty benign in the US, maybe not in the UK?

Nice! That thing is huge. I was thinking to get a large cabinet like that, but I am still wanting to keep some level of portability. I know eventually I will get something like that, but will also rethink my studio space to accommodate it.

Gates are sent from the Beatstep pro mult'ed out to the Erica Synths Sample Drum and MI Veils.

The two outputs from Veils are mixed in the Duatt and passed to the CV 1 of Sample Drum, which would be mapped to sample selection.

This should result in each gate from the beatstep pro triggering a different sample and an additional sample when both gates are triggered.

This is the nastiest post I have read on here so far... seriously? Please consider removing the xenophobic language!
-- Kel_

??? What xenophobic language?

-- Lugia

It's hard to believe you don't know...

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/rube

We are in the 21st Century now, we don't use offensive terms like this against whole groups of people in this way, I mean why not use the n-word? It's along those lines. Not cool.

I'd stop worrying so much if I were you

eurorack psu is similar in current draw to a laptop

you'll almost definitely be fine

My first skiff should arrive tomorrow, and while I've been doing the math to ensure I won't be overdrawing from my available onboard power, one thing I hadn't given much thought to were my surge protectors and keeping the PSU itself powered properly. I've seen uninterruptible power supplies online; is that worth considering, or are there other surge protector related tips/advice people have? I'm just getting into learning this stuff and don't have an especially technical background, so my knowledge of household electrical is pretty limited. I'll be moving into my own house soon, but currently I've got a near-always-running window AC, a high-end windows PC w 1000w psu, 3 external HD hubs (connecting 6 extra hard drives), two 2k monitors, a large Yamaha stereo receiver, a Yamaha MG10xu mixer, a Moog DFAM, Moog Werkstatt, and a few other miscellaneous 9V devices all going in the same small room, not to mention a space heater that occasionally is running (from its own outlet), and obviously a few lamps. Besides the AC/space heater, all this is pretty much connected via a trio of surge protectors across two or three outlets, I think they are pretty decent models and I've had them for years, but I don't know the specs on them offhand.

Is this something I should be thinking about more? I have an 84 hp Synthrotek 3u skiff coming tomorrow, and a double 3u in a couple weeks (though I'll be moving around then), so that's at least 2 modular PSUs added into what already feels like quite a bit of equipment for my little apartment room. Haven't had any problems thus far, I vaguely remember my landlord telling me the electrical for our place (shared multi-unit with his place) was pretty robust, but, trying to make sure I'm covering all my bases here.

EDITED Apr 12th 2021, 03:43

As for the $5k QMMG...clearly, this derp hasn't quite picked up on the fact that Make Noise's MMG is NOT discontinued
-- Lugia

Ah yes, but the CURRENTLY available ones don't have the ugly color scheme or the "good" vactrols.
-- eexee

Reminds me a bit of the snakeoil behind the idea that running a certain, specific green magic marker around the edge of your CDs will make them sound better. I tend to laugh my a$$ off when I run into someone these days who STILL believes this nonsense, especially after Wayne Green (W2NSD, the former editor of 73 Magazine and a shortlived sister high-end audio publication) finally told the story of how he and some of his other staffers cooked this total lie up to see how far everyone in the audiophile community would run with it.

EDITED Apr 12th 2021, 03:39