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I’m with Lugia the Frap Tools modules make my head spin with the hieroglyphics labels and Instruo is like that to some degree as is Make Noise. I like the clear labels on Intellijel modules. Wish more makers could focus on clear easy to understand modules.

If you like Falistri, you'll like Brenso. You'll be familiar with the smaller attenuverters and the tiny switches. The colour coding, layout, and iconography are similar. These were among the first modules I bought, and I enjoy them a great deal.

LEFT = UP, RIGHT = DOWN. Control signals start on the bottom with sequencing, MIDI interfacing, soundcard I/O, etc, then go up on the left along with modules to work with them in that path. Generators (oscillators and their pals) on top, as they're less likely to be tweaked while playing. And filters + FX go above the final output mixer, sent down the right side from the top. Modulators, if left in the middle, can then branch out to anywhere in that circular flow with a minimum of cable-snarl. And putting the FX right near the final mixer makes them easier to add to the mix. So, even though there might be several "instruments" patched up on a single synth, you're able to follow what's going on with the patches more easily.
-- Lugia

Yup! That's exactly the layout that I've found has worked for me (and probably will work for others).

... or maybe I should just get a dedicated mixer module instead?

Probably the right move. Consider: a proper performance mixer offers VCAs for audio levels, panning, usually AUX levels, and sometimes a CUE bus, headphone preamp, metering, etc etc. Yeah, something like a Toppobrillo Stereomix2 is $400+...but it's got at least $400 worth of submodules hiding inside. However...

...and the CWEJMAN VCA-4MX QUAD VCA MIXER.

-- joesh

To have that module, you'll need sufficient money to afford it...and also, to afford a time machine to go back about ten years, as Woja's been dead for a hot minute. But by and large, charging brain-wrenching prices for stuff like that is more about...ah...well, why do people buy Ferraris when they KNOW they'll mostly be driven from home to the service garage and back again? Same idea...you're paying for a name when you really just need the module. Save your money.

To me, the Frap modules...save for some of the smaller ones...are an unintelligible mess. Yes, it might make them more internationally acceptable by using symbols only...but then again, English is pretty much the lingua franca for synths with only a few exceptions. For example, I can easily figure out what the Frap 321 is and does...which is one reason why I recommend it. But the Brenso? The Sapel? Nowayinhell. And this is coming from someone with 40-ish years in on electronic music.

Wait for the Tiptop/Buchla 258t to drop sometime around the first of the year, however. You could buy THREE of those for what one Brenso goes for and still have beer money. And the 258 is super-capable...which is why the Brenso is somewhat based on them. Plus...it's got WORDS on it. And words on control panels are a good thing.

Ornament and Crime (O&C) is really good and easy to use. Definitely easier than disting ex which is a pain to learn.
I have a micro O&C with base software and a second O&C with Hemispheres on the way.

Another option slightly cheaper https://www.perfectcircuit.com/lmntl-splitter-hub.html

I definitely talk about ergonomics on here, though. It seems to be the most-neglected aspect of system design, module design, and so on. And it's very important, because ergonomics goes hand in hand with successful instrument design. Ignore it, and you'll probably wind up with a nice and expensive closet-stuffer.

As far as modules go, the problems there are twofold: in some cases, there seems to be ZERO forethought that their hardware might be used in low-lighting situations. Like a live gig. So you get panels that look like refried ASS attached to modules that could benefit from a much better and more intelligible user interface. And the other issue, especially with the plethora of Mutable clones, is tiny knobs packed densely together. Now, I HAVE a modular system that uses these pretty much exclusively, that being a 180-space AE system...but the AE module designs are such that you've got loads of room to fit your fat fingers into when you want to tweak a patch. THAT works. But when you've got a pile of little controls, jammed in with the necessary jacks, and tiny writing on that...well, to me, this is sort of crappy. Yes, bringing certain modules back (Clouds, in particular) is a good thing, unless your remake is unplayable...then it's not. Seriously...you can't jam 18 hp worth of module guts into 8 hp without some sort of tradeoff...I get that...but that compromise probably shouldn't be in the UI.

As for systems, I follow a pattern that has "generators" on top, then filters on the right, and FX and output mixer below that (at least, in a 3-row cab). Then on the bottom, clocking and related processes, and above that on the left, modulation sources. Granted, I have to fudge that arrangement sometimes, but you can even manage much of it in something small like a Rackbrute. By doing this every time (or as close as possible), I'm hoping that the arrangements I come up with actually have a signal flow such as this for the user's ease:

LEFT = UP, RIGHT = DOWN. Control signals start on the bottom with sequencing, MIDI interfacing, soundcard I/O, etc, then go up on the left along with modules to work with them in that path. Generators (oscillators and their pals) on top, as they're less likely to be tweaked while playing. And filters + FX go above the final output mixer, sent down the right side from the top. Modulators, if left in the middle, can then branch out to anywhere in that circular flow with a minimum of cable-snarl. And putting the FX right near the final mixer makes them easier to add to the mix. So, even though there might be several "instruments" patched up on a single synth, you're able to follow what's going on with the patches more easily.

EDITED Dec 9th 2021, 02:15

Actually, I kinda like these: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MonoMultBk--black-market-monomult-1x5-splitter-hub-black Easy to get, for one thing...plus you get 1-in/5-out with these, and they come in several colors (I prefer the eye-shattering ones...helps to remind me that something in the patch IS being multed out).

Actually, the best way to deal with DC offsets is to have something in the final path that blocks it. Quite often, this'll be the VCAs in a performance mixer, but you can also grab a Happy Nerding Isolator for about $100, and this'll give you isolation transformers which you can overdrive slightly to get that "big iron" warmup. And a ganged final level, too, plus the transformers also work the opposite way to help decouple the modular from any crud trying to get into the instrument via the outputs...ground loops being a big culprit here.

I'm sort of like farkas in layout and generally agree with most of what he posted - although muscle memory is not there with this layout yet and I think I will probably change it around a bit

my main cases are similar to farkas' set up but for a total of 188hp/18u (2 * 9u 104, 2 * 9u 84)

by the side of those I have 2 6u 19" racks 1 is almost empty but the bottom 1 is mostly full of video synth modules

at a 90degree angle to those racks I have a desk on which is a mantis (video synth) with a 6u/72hp rack on a guitar stand with mostly modulation modules in it

thinking of moving more of the video stuff into the 19" racks so I can set up the mantis and the 72hp case in the living room to focus on learning the black sequencer (which I bought recently) more

Mutable Instruments Shades is great tool and other similar modules to what Jim mentions like WMD SSF Toolbox. Sequential switches are fun tools also.

I'd add a matrix mixer, fx aid xl and something that can do offsets and inversion (3*MIA, perhaps) probably replace all the new vcas with a happy nerding one too if this were my case

something like this

wouldn't be my case though - I have multiple problems with the frap tools modules, but that's just me - although I'm sure they are great... I think bresno is way too big for a case this size - as there's not enough room left over for modules to support it - add another row, though and it'd be substantially better

ALM Busy Circuits Tangle Quartet is another good quad VCA and mixer to consider.

Really good advice, thanks you both. I should say that I maybe gave the wrong impression - that I was getting rid of the Quad VCA. If so, I didn't mean that, I love the Quad VCA, it gets used all the time.

Good idea for the 2HP Mix, I hadn't thought about that (I imagine you mean this one: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/2hp-mix). The linear VCAs also seem a good idea too.

Just to put you in the picture, here's my rack at present. The modules on the bottom right are things I'm thinking over (you'll see all the VCAs and mixer bits + the Brenso which I'm hesitating about). What you can't see is a Pittsburgh SV-1B, a Make Noise 0-Coast, and a Synthstrom Deluge, which I use for drums, or sequencing, or triggering the bitbox, etc.

So, now you see my hand of cards, you can maybe make other suggestions too!

Thanks in advance.

EDITED Feb 17th 2022, 10:01

I will third the 4ms Ensemble Oscillator. You can get some really beautiful drones with it and then use CV to affect the spread and it just gets better.

I wish this was real, instead it just sits here teasing me, along with all the other lightstrip prototypes!
-- benirose

oh so this is vapourware like the Pulse tornado?

EDITED Dec 3rd 2023, 05:09

I have 208hp x 12u set up in a half horizontal/half vertical layout (picture 4 Mantis cases with brackets or something similar). I keep sequencing, mixing, and controllers in the front, with oscillators and filters at the top, signal flow mostly left-to-right. Most of the time I am sitting while patching, so this works well for me. I have been constantly tweaking and reworking my layout for two years, and have arrived at something that is almost exactly what I had hoped for. My muscle memory knows exactly where to reach now. It all makes sense to me, which is ultimately all that really matters.
As far as module ergonomics, I prefer large-ish modules with minimal menu-diving and button combos. Kind of a WYSIWYG interface for the most part, as I like to work fast. I've eliminated most of the modules that I just didn't enjoy using, and finally arrived at a rack size, layout, and module selection that has eliminated any serious GAS. I just can't think of much else I would ever want or need.
How about you?

tnx!

I discovered there is one to many passive mult on the top row and a Doepfer clock devider is missing.
The mults where there before i got the Klavis and the clock devider. Both do most of the multiplication.
Indeed the mults are an optimisation = more room = not making it easier :P

The Ornament & Crime is an interesting module. That's indeed something i wasn't looking for but it does add something new to the rack.
-- vnauta

Intellijel makes a mult called a "Hub". It's a little red box you can just toss in a drawer when not needed. It's 1:3 and the price is around $10. They are in stock at Perfect Circuit (just checked). They make more sense than chewing up HP. $20 for 4 extra HP of space isn't bad.
https://intellijel.com/shop/accessories/hub/

I'm hoping maybe the thread gets a pin put in it.

But something I don't see discussed often is ergonomics. What works best for you?
This is more oriented for permanent builds not portable ones.

I see systems that are vertically mounted and others that seem to be horizontal. What do YOU like best? What criteria do you look for in a permanent system? If you're going to spend hours working with your instrument, then this does come into play.

@Ronin, thanks for those suggestions. My first few checks showed "out of stock" but I can keep checking for availability elsewhere.

@TOMMI001 thanks for the news, maybe post again when the units are available? I am in the US, I'm not sure mail from your location in the Netherlands would make sense, but we'll see...

I am also considering ordering some perforated aluminum sheet such as https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/aluminum-perforated-sheet which is quoting about $5 per for 10 units of "custom cut" 1x5 inch panels, or $40-50 for me to get more than enough vented blanks as I would need, which is not bad. I've seen people in other forums say the cut tolerances are not exacting SO one might need to buy big and cut down. Do ya'll know what capacity metal sheers are needed to get clean edges / angles / dimensions on blank-sized metals? I don't have any such tools presently.

-- nickgreenberg

How would you mount the perforated aluminum to your rails? There's no guarantee that any of the holes will line up or be big enough to pass the threads of a screw through.

I wouldn't use sheers as they will probably curl your aluminum. Sheers (aircraft sheers are best) only make sense for rough cuts in my opinion. I'd use a small hacksaw. You can clean up your cuts using a deburring tool. Just do a search on Amazon for one.

A dedicated mixer module is where you should go. The quad VCA is great. But using it as a mixer AND a VCA at the same time is pretty limited. You can't adjust volume levels without opening the bias or sacrificing a VCA as an attenuator then plugged into another VCA to shape a volume envelope. I would think as the ability to mix as an EXTRA functionality and not a core. In my experience it's an either/or proposition.

I use a Quadratt 1U mixer/attenuverter for simple mixing duties. The Quadratt can be used for that, or individual attenuverting. But any small, monophonic mixer that's DC coupled will work if you don't have 1U rails in your system.

Keep the Quad VCA unless space is an issue. A 2HP Mix for $100 should do the trick... and it's 2HP. I don't like the knobs on 2HP stuff. But for this purpose, they are fine. It's generally a set-and-forget thing.

You may want to add a couple of linear VCAs... here's a dual set for $100.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/arcus-audio-dual-lin-exp-vca

So for $200 and 4HP you have a small utility mixer and a couple of linear VCAs... (that do exponential as well).

the bastl one seems easy to find:

https://wigglehunt.com/?query=Bastl+QUATTRO+FIGARO&condition=&stock_status=in_&price_min=0&price_max=5000¤cy_code=47&sort=price

what exactly are you trying to do? - maybe post a link to your rack - imo it's often better to get multiple basic modules that when patched together work how you want them to rather than struggling to find a particular module that works in a specific way - it's modular after all - and you may not want it to work that way next month, or even next patch

this is one of the reasons that bigger cases are better - there's space to add simple building block modules that can be patched together to do different things/behave in different ways - which is also why Maths beats most of the other DUSG based modules (especially for beginners) as it has the excellent 'maths illustrated supplement' as a guide to patch programming, which can be extended to patching in general!

Brilliant, thanks Jim that's interesting, I'll think all that over and try to replan my VCA ideas.

BTW, another couple of things I came up with are the Bastl QUATTRO FIGARO, shame it's also discontinued, but maybe not impossible to find, and I wondered if the WMD triple bipolar VCA could be interesting and work for me?

cwejman always were made in very small batches, (order and wait and wait), from what I can gather, and there's been a gap in production since Woja (Cwejman, the designer) died, apparently they are starting to be built again, but unless you want to get on the (quite long) wait list (expect years) then it's the used market only and as they are 'unobtanium', they tend to go for a lot more used than retail prices, especially quoted on modulargrid, would appear - supply and demand

I just checked on wigglehunt - there appear to be 5 available - ranging from $840-1100, all in the US, so probably + shipping and import duties etc - that's roughly 4 times the price of veils or the quad vca or the wmd

by simple 4 channel mixer I was meaning something in the 100-150€ bracket

keeping the quad vca you have (or swapping it out for a veils) and adding something in this bracket will save you a lot of money!

EDITED Dec 8th 2021, 14:23

The WMD is easy to find here - in Europe. I see it's only 2 channels though, so that's bad luck, and, buying two would just be the same as buying one Cwejman (I guess).

Strange the Cwejman's are so expensive, people talk about them in YT videos, but always add in that they are very expensive. From what I understand, the quality is incredible, but does that mean Intellijels are rubbish because they're cheaper, I think not. Or, are the Cwejman just made in very small batches maybe?

As for "keep the quad (or swap it out for a veils) and add a simple 4 channel mixer", sounds not so bad, but in the end you might as well just buy the Cwejman, which would come to the same price or cheaper anyhow.

Thanks for the suggestion(s).

well, you may actually be able to find the wmd - the cwejman, not so likely - unless you have super deep pockets (used) or exemplary patience (order)

sounds like you should keep the quad (or swap it out for a veils) and add a simple 4 channel mixer

tnx!

I discovered there is one to many passive mult on the top row and a Doepfer clock devider is missing.
The mults where there before i got the Klavis and the clock devider. Both do most of the multiplication.
Indeed the mults are an optimisation = more room = not making it easier :P

The Ornament & Crime is an interesting module. That's indeed something i wasn't looking for but it does add something new to the rack.

Thanks for the input all.

How about the veils (2020 version) instead of the quad vca?

When commenting on the Intellijel Quad VCA, in another thread, I was suggesting the Doepfer A-135-2. However, as Lugia quickly pointed out it's DC coupled, and linear.

So, maybe you have some/a suggestion(s) for alternative VCA modules that have similar functionality to the A-135-2's 'Selected' and 'All' outputs? I love using the Quad VCA, but I'm often frustrated when using it as a mixer, which as each output is normalled to the mix input of the adjacent one, you end up 'cutting' your signal chain when being sent to the 4th out - if you see what I mean.

... or maybe I should just get a dedicated mixer module instead?

BTW, a couple of ideas I had were: WMD MULTIMODE VCA, and the CWEJMAN VCA-4MX QUAD VCA MIXER.

Any suggestions or thoughts?

EDITED Dec 8th 2021, 07:29

@Lugia

Good call, I hadn't thought of that. However, if I understand what you're saying, so is (as an example) Veils DC-coupled, both ins and outs. Is that really such a problem?

EDITED Dec 8th 2021, 06:28

I would go with Batumi instead of Maths as it takes up way less space and easier to use.

@Ronin, thanks for those suggestions. My first few checks showed "out of stock" but I can keep checking for availability elsewhere.

@TOMMI001 thanks for the news, maybe post again when the units are available? I am in the US, I'm not sure mail from your location in the Netherlands would make sense, but we'll see...

I am also considering ordering some perforated aluminum sheet such as https://www.onlinemetals.com/en/buy/aluminum-perforated-sheet which is quoting about $5 per for 10 units of "custom cut" 1x5 inch panels, or $40-50 for me to get more than enough vented blanks as I would need, which is not bad. I've seen people in other forums say the cut tolerances are not exacting SO one might need to buy big and cut down. Do ya'll know what capacity metal sheers are needed to get clean edges / angles / dimensions on blank-sized metals? I don't have any such tools presently.

EDITED Dec 8th 2021, 02:21

And I'll toss my 2 cents in and suggest some Boolean logic plus small clock modulators, especially if this is a companion to the 2S. Plus, Ronin's advice on the mults is spot-on; in a small build like this, the ONLY mult module that should be in there is a buffered mult, and that only if you've got enough (over three is my usual rule of thumb) destinations for a single CV that must be replicated precisely so that all of the modules controlled by it (and those are usually VCOs or similar) do exactly the same thing. Otherwise, what they are are 6 hp that could be used for any number of other things. As for mults, I'd suggest some stackcables or inline multiple widgets, as neither require ANY panel space.

Careful, though...the A-135-2 only offers linear VCAs, plus it's DC-coupled. Given those two facts, it's something that should be "deeper" in the modular...with the best location being somewhere in the modulation environment to control modulation amplitude.

What's needed for audio paths...especially end-of-chain situations...is exponential VCAs that are NOT DC-coupled. For one thing, our hearing doesn't follow a linear curve; the decibel scale is exponential, and that's how we perceive "apparent loudness". Also, DC to your amp...I love that thumbnail pic...well: Sort of explains it all, really.

Get rid of the two passive mults in the top row (+4HP). Passive mults as modules are a waste of space in a small build.
With your 16HP buy a Disting EX and an Ornament & Crime Micro.

It's two modules. But it's Christmas and your worth it. :)

EDITED Dec 8th 2021, 18:12

Just to confirm a few ideas that have already been mentioned.

If you want something that has a lot of possibilities, you should definitely get Ornament and Crime. It does so many things from sequencing, LFOs, and much more. You can change the firmware to make it (using Teensy) into a drum/rhythm module even.

Secondly, as @Ronin1973 mentions, a VCA could be useful in many situations. I have a Intellijel Quad VCA and indeed it gets used a lot. However, I noticed that Doepfer have what looks to be an even more (useful) VCA with the A-135-2. Although I don't have this (yet) it looks as though it has a more interesting set up. It has attenuators, like the Quad VCA, but more interesting two extra mix outputs, 'Selected' (takes the signals from Inputs, provided they've not been diverted via an Output) and 'All' (all signals going to the Inputs). This can/could be particularly useful, and the Quad VCA doesn't have this possibility.

It's also a lot cheaper too.

get rid of the a-138 and put a cosmotronic cosmix there

Dear all,

I've got 12 HP left. And I'm treating myself for Christmas another module. However I don't know what. I'm not really missing any function. My rack goes together with a Minibrute 2s for sequencing.
The 12 HP doesn't need to be filled completely. Budget i haven't determined.

On a longer term I want to get a better mixing for the four sound sources. Not sure if this is in the box or outside of it. I miss some basic EQ and easy volume control.

cheers,

Hi, made some in 4hp and they are on their way and soon in my shop.. :)
www.etsy.com/shop/bearmodules

EDITED Dec 7th 2021, 19:28

A minimal piece with Instruo Ts-L, Mannequins Mangrove and Disting Ex. Basic patch info in the video description.

The gated clock IS the output of the And gate. One and the same. So again this will cause a reset on each transition of the (gated) clock, and no division will occur.
-- jamos

I think Random is right and you're conflating the patch example with the normalled functionality. The webpage isn't laid out very well.

Buy some inexpensive aluminum blank panels. Drill some holes in them. Rough up whichever side you want to be face-down with course sandpaper, then superglue some wire mesh (like screendoor material) to the bottom. Leave enough space so you don't interfere with mounting the panels to rails.

Now you have the airflow you want and a barrier to stop any loose items (like screws) from falling into the drilled holes.

Also, these two premade panels aren't that expensive:
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/steady-state-fate-ssf-8hp-vented-blank
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/endorphin-es-42-blind-panel-cable-holder

EDITED Dec 7th 2021, 19:17

@JNH-83 thanks for that Shapeways suggestion! They look like good candidates, IMO they are also a bit $ for plastic, so I may continue to look for some other alternatives. But I'm happy to have at least 1 good pre-fabricated option here!

@wishbonebrewery, yeah, how is it vented blanks are not more widely available and used?

I suppose we may as well compile a few of the better DIY options in this thread, such as preferred materials, potential preferred BOM vendors, dimensions, etc. A few weeks ago I'd found a good vendor and dimensions BUT I seem to have not noted that (sigh)... I'll post more on DIY options when possible.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but any steel or aluminum with (appropriate sized) vents would be a candidate material right?

I read the original post and I'm going to come at this from the angle that your current workflow isn't going to change but you just want more options. So I'd recommend adding three modules:

Noise Engineering Mimetic Digitalis
My thought is to add a Mimetic Digitalis from Noise Engineering. It's a four channel 16 step sequencer. You may or may not use it for pitch. But where it should shine for you might be four channels of stepped CV modulation of four different parameters in your set-up.

Intellijel Quad VCA
I'd also add a true VCA module (the Mix 3 doesn't have individual outputs). So something like an Intellijel Quad VCA would work. That way you can either attenuate the amount of CV coming from Mimetic OR use the Mimetic to modulate the amount of CV coming from another modulation source (like an envelope or LFO).

Blue Lantern CMOS Party (discontinued but still available on Amazon)
Finally a logic module. Any generic logic module should work that has at least OR and AND outputs. Being able to take two patterns of gates/triggers and derive a third pattern is always useful. There are other logic outputs that also might be interesting when comparing.

I think between these three modules you'd be able to add some dynamics to Plaits or Marbles timbres that would make for some good sample fodder.

This is something I keep thinking about too, something in maybe 3 and 4hp, so you can get a bit of air flow with a couple at the bottom and a couple at the top. Electronics do last better when kept cool don't they?
I'm sure I could make my own but I'm not sure it would end up looking very tidy marked out and drilled by hand!

Should probably add some sort of EG…Zadar or Doepfer A-140-2…more modulation is always good, maybe Quadrax…ornament and crime adds a lot of functionality as well but some don’t like menu diving

Hi folks,

This is the current state of my Rack. I started building it a few months ago and have already had some good fun playing with it in its current state. I guess it's rather basic. I mainly use the Marbles or the Pam's to generate random tunes that I send to the Plaits. I like to jam on it trying to get some sounds and loops I enjoy. Eventually I record those for later use when I produce music.

Now, I would like to expand it somehow but not sure yet what to get next.
Do you have some tips and ideas on how you would improve/use this rack?

Made a new video for the final track «Iris» from my debut solo album «Still Life».
Romantic polyphonic composition for modular synthesizer based on subtle melody and dreamy strings.
Better to listen with headphones. More explanations on YouTube.

Just got the TUL by rides in the storm, this has offsets built into the 2 channels itself that can be enabled by a switch. And another switch to change between nuation/nuversion ;) This made much more sense to me and want to get more to replace blinds/shades. With blinds it can be hard to get a true zero value, and on the shades it takes 2 channels to add offset, the problem also mentioned above. Cheap and perfect companion for stuff like grand terminal/vortex or rampage etc. that don't have the maths CH2/3 section.