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I'd suggest some utilities like a Befaco A*B+C. Adds a flexible Attenuverter, Offset generator, Ringmodulator or even two times linear VCA to your system :) I use mine in every patch I make.

All computer operating systems prioritize audio over virtually everything else including midi - want a solid clock from a computer - use an audio click track

This is because most users will notice and complain if replaying audio is jittery - in reality very few computer users actually use midi

-- JimHowell1970

What is an audio click track? Would this be for example in Ableton using CV Clock Out (CV tools in Ableton) as the clock source?

-- jb61264

a sample of a kick drum, for example on every 16th note on an audio track - this is what I use from Logic - works perfectly no jitter

My case suggestion would be Case From Lake. See here: https://reverb.com/shop/casefromlake

They do some pretty solid cabs, and you'll notice that they can make extensive bespoke modifications...adding tile rows, different panel space, choices between beefy Meanwells and Doepfer's current A-100 supply. Bus boards included, too. Not as cheap as DIY, true, but they do make things far simpler.

I'm actually going to suggest TWO modules, both 4 hp in width.

The first one is the Ladik S-186, and the other is Tesseract's VC Logics. The first one is useful to shift gate/trigs rhythmically and then move them off of the beat. And then with the second one, you can take both processed and UNprocessed clock signals and run them through a Boolean gate, which then outputs gates based on the given logic states at each Boolean. The VC Logics also allows you to switch Boolean logic per gate by CV, which can be fun as it has the ability to really alter the build's behavior.

I ordered from Ladik several times in the last months and shipping from Czech Republic to Hamburg, Germany always was super fast (even faster than from Berlin to Hamburg). So my guess is on Covid (very high numbers in Czechia) and the usually huge amounts of parcels around this time of year. My fingers crossed for you sacguy71!

Actually, something like a Branches clone (Mutable's is discontinued) could be fun. These are Boolean gates which, depending on probabilistic variables (CV controlled ones, too), route a gate/trigger to one of two outputs. So if you routed sequencer clock pulses through this and only used one output, you'd have a stochastic clock skipper. Or route a raw clock between two different clock modulators with random swaps. Or a whole lot of other entertaining tricks.

New Sounds from the rack, take a listen here:

I added Kick ALL and some more modulation to the rig with Stages, and I couldn't be happier. This is still stock Stages firmware as the other one seemed a little too overwhelming. If I had to get something righ now (I don't plan to), I'd grab either another module that can quantize CV to free the Disting, an Buffered Mult or some more Attenuverters. But that's for another day (year).

Also: Thank you Lugia, I watched a lot of NUTONE demos when you told me about them. But more modulation & utilities first!

EDITED Dec 17th 2021, 08:48

The granular synth is limited because you can only have one grain.

-- ModLifeCrisis

Ahhhh...OK, that's pretty restricting. Looks like my instinct to use Grainstorm for granular work (on an Android tablet: Samsung Tab A) was the right one after all. Now I have to figure out how to tie that in so it can talk to Ableton.

Oh. 4ms is based a 20-minute drive from my house.

This could get expensive.
-- ProggyBoog

Ya think? 4ms has created some AMAZING shit over the years, with my faves being their ridiculously long modulation times available on the PEG and QPLFO. Plus the SISM is an excellent and CV-controllable modulation screw-with-er. The only ding I've give them might be the module sizes, but when you notice how well you can screw with the controls, you realize that that's ergonomics in action.

There are also rolling shortages for parts as well as long delays in delivery... it's not a good time to be a manufacturer, especially in boutique electronics.

I'm not excusing anyone or their business practices. Every case is different. But I do try and factor in issues with supply chains into delays.

big thanks to both of you 😊

-- Dub007

for case parts and module kits (including the excalibus) - exploding-shed.com is really worth checking

if you do get a excalibus then you'll need a rug wart - basically a laptop power supply - you should be able to find one that will work perfectly online for 20€ or so

All computer operating systems prioritize audio over virtually everything else including midi - want a solid clock from a computer - use an audio click track

This is because most users will notice and complain if replaying audio is jittery - in reality very few computer users actually use midi

-- JimHowell1970

What is an audio click track? Would this be for example in Ableton using CV Clock Out (CV tools in Ableton) as the clock source?

Hope this covid crap ends soon.
-- sacguy71

highly unlikely until everyone worldwide is properly vaccinated, unfortunately... which isn't going to happen soon, for a number of reasons

I'm playing around with Sequins on o_c into my Disting (which is in multisample mode) and getting some really cool results. However, I'm trying to have Sequins start at the beginning of the sequence each time I stop/start the clock. There is a reset/mute option where you can specify a trigger channel to do this, but I am having a heck of a time finding something that I can create a trigger from that will do this in my setup.

I was hoping there would be some way that o_c itself could just generate a trigger whenever it started and stopped and send that to the channel I'm specifying as the reset but there doesn't appear to be a way to do this. I have Quadrax but have not been able to figure out a way to just have it send a trigger once upon start

Here is what I have for modules that I'm working with...

looking for any suggestions on how I could generate a single trigger when I start my clock (using Beatstep Pro as master clock start/stop). Tried to work through this over a couple days and have reached that point where I'm stumped and hoping someone else might have a recommendation.

EDITED Dec 10th 2021, 20:15

Side note...I don’t know about you guys but I’ve always had issues with midi clock when using Ableton with hardware synths and drum machines. One thing I can say for sure which I was totally taken aback from is that using Pams as the master (ext) clock is solid AF! After all these years trying to get all that midi synced, offsetting nightmares in Ableton’s MIDI settings, or even using track delays to get audio or MIDI to line up, again, PAMS is seriously solid! I have the modular on a stereo channel, Digitakt using overbridge, and Maschine all running rock solid now...finally. I hope that may help you guys in return and those out there who have these nightmares too.

Thanks again for you help peeps, much appreciated 🖖🏼🙏🏼
-- HybridWaveform

All computer operating systems prioritize audio over virtually everything else including midi - want a solid clock from a computer - use an audio click track

This is because most users will notice and complain if replaying audio is jittery - in reality very few computer users actually use midi

I'd get a sequential switch to send Math's and Pam's modulation through so that you can quickly wreck and change the routing of your pitch/control/modulation around the case very quickly. It encourages spontaneous finding of results and not keeping static while you explore your system sometimes. Depending on the one you get, you also get a new pitch or rhythm sequencer source to build a patch around.
-- DrFrunkensteen

@DrFrunkensteen The sequential switch mode is what I've been focused on using since I got CVilization a few weeks ago...so much fun. I have been messing around with sending the output of my Hydrasynth into a buffered mult and then taking the four outs from that into each of the inputs on CVilization and then routing each out to an input on my Cosmix mixer getting all sorts of interesting craziness not only by modifying the CVilization but also mixing in and out each of the inputs on Cosmix. I know I'm only scratching the sequential switch surface so to speak...

I'm interested in your comment about using it with Math's (which I have)...you are saying to route the output of Maths in to the sequential switch? Can you elaborate a little more on that?

and unsurprisingly me too...
-- JimHowell1970

Not surprising. I based that signal flow partly on the ARP 2600's design. It's somewhat different, but that flow is very much part of what makes IT easy to work with.

-- Lugia

exactly!

I'd get a sequential switch to send Math's and Pam's modulation through so that you can quickly wreck and change the routing of your pitch/control/modulation around the case very quickly. It encourages spontaneous finding of results and not keeping static while you explore your system sometimes. Depending on the one you get, you also get a new pitch or rhythm sequencer source to build a patch around.

NI makes an incredible one. ALM also has the Boss Bow Two, highly recommend. For smaller footprints, PUSH by ST Modular is a 5 step sequential switch in 4HP! I personally have the Bizmuth chaotic signal router which is a little more esoteric. Guarantee adding a piece like this will give you results!

I've been planning out a matriarch expander for some time! I bought the small intellijel case too, mostly hoping to add utilities and a few envelopes. Just dug up this forum after I came up with what I think my final skiff will look like, and it seems like we have similar ideas on what to include!

Here's what I have now:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1694848.jpg

And here's what I'm thinking the final skiff will look like:
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1772099.jpg

Maths is awesome, I use it for slew, pitch envelopes, and extra attenuverters all the time. Massive upgrade for the matriarch on it's own.

I'm hoping to use Pams, The EG's, and LPG's to generate some tempo sync'd goodness while leaving one voice to play around with on the keyboard. The Ladik ADSR's are listed as 45mm deep, and my case is listed at 45.5mm, so hopefully things end up fitting. Twin CV controllable envelopes will be fun for stereo drone patches.

Bi-Fold hopefully will add a bunch more timbers to Matriarch's base sound, seems like a no brainer.

Sloths also seems like an awesome modulation source to add, I've been trying to sum triangle waves and noise to get interesting swells but the sloths seems to do this better.

Couple questions:
Do you use your disting often? I know its very flexible but I am hesitant to incorporate menus and do no need see a great need for effects. If you think it's a lot to learn I may stay away from it.

Are you liking the sloths? The Pams and matriarch both have a lot of modulation generation capabilities, but it seems like the sloths has something unique and worth the HP even in the tiny case.

If you have any opinion on what you would include vs not I'd appreciate the input!

I own a Temps Utile. If I had to do it over again, I'd get Pam's New Workout instead.

Oh. 4ms is based a 20-minute drive from my house.

This could get expensive.

I will third the 4ms Ensemble Oscillator. You can get some really beautiful drones with it and then use CV to affect the spread and it just gets better.
-- xnax

Modulating Spread and Root (and balance just for levling) makes indeed beautiful drones.

Big thanks for the insights and advice!
One correction right off the bat… and I do apologize. 84hp or 114hp.
The 114 was from here… which is an option still to be honest =https://www.ginkosynthese.com/product/758573/wooden-diy-case-114hp
100% = the Mantis is brilliant.

Regarding power… a MeanWell kit from ModularSynthLab… was at the top… but, looking at the Excalibus… may rethink. Even if I have to add a second for whatever reason.
I’m sold on the 1U row vs eating 3U HP. I may build for it now and add rails later for example when needed.
Rails are most likely coming from MDLR Case… I like their 3D printed bits… if they are still in stock.

I appreciate the insight on the modular manufacturing world. I knew they were all small… but didn’t fully realize it.
I see similar mentions in other posts. I do plan to build a few modules as I go and 100% put my money where it’s due… unless it’s second hand.

I’m using a pretty cheap 6 channel mixer right now… but I move things around and wanted a way to play this thing on my terrace for example. The HPO does look like an acceptable alternative.

The FX aid was one of the first things I added… I had no idea they are the same platform… didn’t research enough on this one. Price was another factor.. but…

Ergonomics was a topic I was just reading about… and I agree. It may have been one of you that wrote it.
Going to relook at the Picos and Knit… part of the fun.

Again, big thanks to both of you 😊

I've looked at this, and the only thing I would wish for is a separate unit that's just the synthesizer itself. It's very capable, but sticking with JUST tracker mod clips really sells the synth inside short. Even so, this is way faster than using an old-skool mod tracker on something like an Amiga.
-- Lugia

My experience of the Tracker is that the wavetable function is fun. The granular synth is limited because you can only have one grain. Hopefully they could update that if they can squeeze more out of the processor.

Yeah I did that, got to the paypal payment and couldn't see anywhere to paste the code.

Not to worry, I've already spent enough on Christmas!

I understand but did file claim in case lost or stolen package. FedEx delayed package today as well. Hope this covid crap ends soon.

To be fair, I shipped some stuff to Eastern Europe a while back and it took months to arrive. Between customs and other countries' postal services, there is a possibility for error and huge delays.

Thanks for your comments and insights guys! You have helped me come up with a solution with some slight tweaks and here’s what I’ve changed/added...

Sorry, it’s not showing the updated version of the modular, I’ll try again later. Go on to my profile to see the completed system.

Changing the filter to a multi mode filter as mentioned, and adding the O&C for tons of additional uses, and with 3HP I thought I’ll try out a switch!

I’m happy with these choices and thanks again for your input! I would say that this setup will endure plenty of noodling and jamming fun before I even think about switching out modules. I’m sticking to this size case as preference and believe this combined with Ableton and Maschine should do me wonders!

Side note...I don’t know about you guys but I’ve always had issues with midi clock when using Ableton with hardware synths and drum machines. One thing I can say for sure which I was totally taken aback from is that using Pams as the master (ext) clock is solid AF! After all these years trying to get all that midi synced, offsetting nightmares in Ableton’s MIDI settings, or even using track delays to get audio or MIDI to line up, again, PAMS is seriously solid! I have the modular on a stereo channel, Digitakt using overbridge, and Maschine all running rock solid now...finally. I hope that may help you guys in return and those out there who have these nightmares too.

Thanks again for you help peeps, much appreciated 🖖🏼🙏🏼

EDITED Dec 10th 2021, 12:43

I'm assuming that is on specific products as there is nowhere to put the code on my basket.
-- wishbonebrewery

If you proceed to checkout, there is a place for the code. It worked for me.

EDITED Dec 10th 2021, 01:33

It's probably a good idea to remember that, right now, big swaths of the EU are going bonkers over vaccine mandates, and stuff's not all that stable right now. Shipping especially, since you not only have the protests, but in a few places rioting has broken out.

Yeah it sucks because VJ at Ladik tried making excuses instead of just issue me refund. Now I have to deal with bank and credit card company over it. Other modules arrive from many other places.

Well was interestingly cool...would you say the Polyend Tracker is relatively easy to get started with? Was watching you triggering the various buttons. Maybe the most time consuming part is getting all your samples loaded? Thanks for the video!
-- jb61264

Hi - thanks for the comment. So far I’ve found it pretty straightforward to load samples. There’s a bit of “housework” but nothing like as much as other samplers I’ve tried.

I've looked at this, and the only thing I would wish for is a separate unit that's just the synthesizer itself. It's very capable, but sticking with JUST tracker mod clips really sells the synth inside short. Even so, this is way faster than using an old-skool mod tracker on something like an Amiga.

Smart, yep...I even think that the O&c is better than the Disting in several aspects. The better UI is just one example; one gives you a one-digit display, the other has an actual OLED screen with proper menuing. I know what I would want to work with!

EDITED Dec 9th 2021, 22:58

I'm going to guess...is this built into a "hacked" IKEA cab? The length dimensions seem to suggest that. My suggestion, if you're fitting this with 114 hp x 6U, would be to NOT add the tile row in deference to having 6U of normal Eurorack modules. That way, you'll get the tile functions as well as more capability.

+1 on Jim's take on the picos, too. The big problem with them is that their control space is so tight that it's easy to nudge a control on an adjacent module. It's not just a "small knob problem", but the layout of those modules as well. Circuit-wise, they're all that, though. Frankly, if you wind up with a 228 hp cab, you'll have ample space to do a proper build AND avoid using 2 or 3 hp modules UNLESS you've got a hole that needs filling...and even then, you still might be better off by shuffling things around and clearing space for something 4 hp and up.

hello ! drill some big holes into the back of your case at the top and the bottom. glue some mesh against them to prevent getting dust inside.
-- mrsupersubsonic

Definitely another way to do it! And this actually makes sense, because you'll have your cooler air entering at the bottom, warmer out of the top, and all of the cooling would be passive and convective, ergo no need for a fan, etc. I do note, though, that it might make more sense to use "slots" rather than just holes...something along the lines of 1" high and 6" across for a typical 84 to 104 hp cab. Two in the bottom of the cab's back panel, two in the top, add some mesh (just glue it in) and you'll be SET. Plenty of airflow, and that'll help keep both drifting and weirdness AND component thermal stress under control.

EDITED Dec 9th 2021, 22:45

I had the same thing happen with an order for a Ts-L I placed with Control (here in the states)...they kept saying it had shipped for four weeks, after sixth week they said it looks like there was a shipping error we'll refund your money...sigh...I ordered one from Analogue Haven and it was on my doorstep in a week...smh

and unsurprisingly me too...
-- JimHowell1970

Not surprising. I based that signal flow partly on the ARP 2600's design. It's somewhat different, but that flow is very much part of what makes IT easy to work with.

I'm assuming that is on specific products as there is nowhere to put the code on my basket.

well if Ladik takes your money and never send module it is bad deal.

I quite fancy one of these sometime https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ladik-e-480 fingers crossed your delivery arrives.

I want to share a message we have got from reverb.com

From now through the end of the year, your audience can get $10 off of any purchase of $50 or more, using your exclusive coupon code at checkout:

MG10OFF50

It would be nice to have the total HP listed for a rack when displayed...seems like it shows everything else (Power Consumption | Depth | Price | Number of Modules) could be useful to show total HP and total HP occupied by modules if possible.

Well was interestingly cool...would you say the Polyend Tracker is relatively easy to get started with? Was watching you triggering the various buttons. Maybe the most time consuming part is getting all your samples loaded? Thanks for the video!

Definitely clears things up. I always forget about the LFOs from Pams and I'm not familiar with the Behringer modules. I would probably second the 0_C as a multi function module to fill that space and fill any role you need in a pinch, or maybe a triple sloths to add subtle movement to your patches. You can get two sloths with the o_C using the Lo Rentz app though, so that might be the better fit still.

whilst the mantis is a brilliant case and really quite reasonably priced, especially compared to other cases that were around when (and since) it was launched, building a case is a great idea and can save a little money - if you can use a saw, a drill and a screw driver then they are, at their most basic, incredibly easy to build - I should know I've built 4, so far! my average build time is a couple of hours, so I wouldn't really call it a project, as such, but then I don't really bother sanding, staining or varnishing etc

88 & 114 hp are weird sizes - ie not standard rails sizes are you going to use wood rails? - I've tried this and personally I wouldn't advise it - when using aluminium rails (and preferably threaded inserts - seriously much better than sliding nuts) it's much easier to stick to standard sizes!!

what power supplies are you considering - I like the befaco excalibus, myself - it's an easy but tedious DIY build and provides a decent amount of very clean power (clean enough for video which needs to be cleaner through much higher frequencies than audio - otherwise it is visible in the output)

as for 1u - as you are building your case yourself, you will come to appreciate that the cost of housing 1u modules in a row is identical to that of a 3u row - and there's really nothing compelling in 1u that can't be achieved with a 3u module, in a much smaller hp footprint, the only thing that 1u really does is save you 3.5" (8.9cm) from the height of the case

as you have more space - I would suggest getting rid of the micro versions of modules - their ergonomics sucks!

as you seem to be into open source, I would also suggest either to build yourself or to support the person who made them open source in the first place and not cloners, where possible (hint buy plaits, not knit)

Emilie is a truly fantastic person and deserves your money, way more than anyone who shrinks one of her modules to child size and I can assure you any product support that you do need will be excellent

almost all eurorack manufacturers are very small - other than the obvious evil that is the b-company I don't think many are more than 10 people:

Doepfer, outside Munich, is 4 - & Dieter "invented" the format
Mutable Instruments, Paris, is 1

for example (nb both of these outsource their production - Doepfer to China, iirc, and Mutable to a company in France

what are you currently using for mixing your existing instruments? you may not need the output module - if you desperately need headphones then I'd suggest something like the ALM HPO - which is made, kind of locally to the EU, in the UK

I'd probably also go for a fx aid xl instead of the milky way - Igor adds more and more algorithms to it - so it's significantly more versatile than the milky way - whilst being built on the same platform

I'd probably replace the pico filters, for the mostly same reason as the knit - poor ergonomics, better suited to children than adults - with Doepfer modules that are bigger and have more space - I have a pico seq - which is kind of annoying for this reason and also the lack of a reset jack (resetting is horrible and really requires space around the module to achieve) - I have other full size erica modules, both DIY and bought, and they are excellent

Noise, mixers (as xnax mentioned above), quantizer, attenuverters???

Both filters in your set-up are low-pass only. So you're pretty limited there.

Also, is this a dream build or do you already have all of these modules? Clouds isn't in production anymore. You can buy a new clone of Clouds or hope for someone willing to sell the original (not cheap).
-- Ronin1973

1. Yes I’m missing noise, do I really need it? Mixers, the two voices used with Tangle Quartet, master to QOP Aux in. Master out to Outs. Bloom covers scales for Quantizer duties, though perhaps you’re right that a dedicated Quantizer could come in handy.

2. I was originally going to get the Wasp filter as it does HP and I think even BP if I’m not mistaken. The filter on the QOP can do both LP and HP, which is great! I do have a limitation with the depth of my case (ALM 6U 84HP). The Mum M8 is a thin module so it can fit. Though it’s a good point of maybe having that dedicated filter for the NE oscillator to do HP or BP. More searching for filters for me there.

3. I have most of the modules except for the Mum M8, and the NE oscillator. Fortunately I got hold of an original Clouds a year or two ago from Reverb.com.

Thanks for your reply!

How are you mixing all of this? How will you be modulating all of this? How will you be utilizing all those Midi inputs?
-- xnax

Thanks for your reply. So I currently have it setup for the Tangle Quartet to mix the two voices. The mix output goes into the Aux in of the QOP so it’s filter is a master filter. The output of the QOP goes into the Intellijel Outs as a master output/headphone output.

Modulation can be covered by the B140’s LFO. And extra modulation from Pams. The mult comes in handy here too.

I should have clarified the Midi. I wanted to be able to sequence this system two ways. 1, by using the Mutant Brain mapped to use my Digitakt or Keystep Pro as a sequencer for the drums, the 2 channels of the Bloom to sequence the two oscillators.

The other setup, is to use Pams to get interesting patterns with QOP and keep using Bloom for the oscillators.

I hope that gives a bit more clarity. 👍🏼

ornament and crime might give you some good bang for the buck with that remaining 8HP
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/after-later-audio-uo-c-black-gold-panel
-- jb61264

This is a solid suggestion a ‘Swiss army knife’ solution for the space and functionality. Something I would certainly consider. 👍🏼

maybe you could benefit for a FX Aid
-- Broken-Form

That is a good suggestion, though Clouds and Milky Way including the filter on the QOP offer enough FX for my liking. Thanks