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hmm - well it's your money! personally that doesn't work for me - having no money means I spend less money - not no space left in cases... I've got at least 300hp free space in my cases - blind panels and panels for diy backlog...

the rack:
too many sound sources in too small a case
ergonomic nightmare:- too many small modules together - disting is a pita with modules that have knobs or jack near the knobs, switch needs to move so that it's at an edge, for the same reason... filter knobs look unusable etc etc etc
steppy and pams - would lose steppy for noise tools if possible...
fx aid and the intellijel - probably wouldn't pick both in a tiny case...

how are you intending to sequence pitch???

hope this helps!

H Jim,

I know what you mean, but im trying to be conservative for now...
if i lock my self to a smaller space I'm less likely to splurge on more gear..

im trying to have bits of things that i can still experiment with. plus these could be great units in a future set up.
(long in the distance future).... HA HA HA..!!

what do you think of the new layout.. ??
after a lot or reading & watching reviews i think i could make some interesting grooves
plus i still have other outboard gear.

Cheers
BB

@Broken-Form

outputs to modulation inputs on other modules

adjust attenuverters to set ranges

turn knob (or use input - use attenuator as needed) to change value at output...

imagine the attenuverter for output 1 is set to about 9 o'clock - roughly -0.5

as you move the knob from fully counter clockwise (0) to fully clockwise (1), the value of output 1 will move from 0-> -0.5

etc etc

Yeah I think if that's what you want to do your best bet may be to sell the Black Sequencer and get something like the TipTop Z8000 instead. You may lose certain features but you'll then have multiple sequencers in one module and you may also come away with a few $ in the transaction.
-- adaris

Thanks so much for the tip on the sequencer. I’ll definitely check it out. In the meantime, I’ll add in my Dark Time to see what I can do. Do you by any chance know how he’s using that Matrix Mixer?

I think this is a very short term solution - so I'd still get the bigger case - yes it's going to cost a bit more - BUT - if you are like most people you will want more as soon as you can afford it - and this way you are prepared...

remember you don't need to fill the case immediately or ever, for that matter - blind panels are your friend...

@Broken-Form

4 modulation sources -> 4 inputs of seq switch
output of sequential switch -> modulation input of some module
some trigger source -> switch input

1 modulation source -> input of sequential switch
outputs of seq switch -> 4 different modulation inputs
some trigger source -> switch input

2 sequencers -> 2 inputs of seq switch
output of seq switch -> vco pitch input
some trigger source (possibly last or first step from one of the sequencers) -> switch input

remember to switch no of steps in the seq switch 2,3,4

remember that switch is bi-directional - inputs become outputs and vice versa depending on how it's patched

examples refer to the doepfer a-151 - but may also apply equally to other sequential switches

EDITED Feb 28th 2022, 03:36

Hey peeps,

after some great advice for JimHowell197o & farkas, on scaling back my ambition on case with 208HP of modules ..

A) cost..
B) getting to know a smaller amount of gear better ..

that all made sense it the light of day..
so I've scaled to a Intellijel Palette Case 62 HP
note: the very top 1U line is what comes with the case.

i welcome feedback & ideas ..

Cheers
BB

link here..

Another vote for the Livestock Electronics Maze, I got it yesterday for my new build - it's powerful for 12HP and I really like it.

-- Vow3ll

Right on! I love mine and create presets that let me do transitions and fade in/out cv control on my system. My other modular has 4ms VCA Matrix which is great module as well. Most of recent modules have been to beef up my support utility toolkit.

Could you post a video clips of this?

The Expert Firmware include the Verhulst’s logistic chaotic system.
Xaoc Github Link.

Random Waveforms Bank
New Quad Mode
Advanced Zoom Interface

I have the A1 synthesis matrix mixer.but need to figure out good ways to use it

I also have the FSS Makrow.but havent used it yet.as im abit baffled how i should patch it up.and there really isent any videos about it.

Thanks for the input Lugia.
I think I will part with the Furthrrr generator and get maybe 2 smaller VCOs for this setup.
The thing with the Queen of Pentacles is that I really fell in love with that kick drum and the hole module as per say . I was considering an external drum machine like the RD-9s but I would like to have all these things in my case. And so for the Ground Control as well, I really like it the workflow and then how it incorporates with the Queen of Pentacles.
For the Instruo Arbhar my idea is to make textures to keep the mood of the track in the back ground running.
I would say these tree modules is my main aspects of the idea of Techno case I would like to build.

For the utilities modules what should I be looking at more to make this integrate well with the concept?

Thanks so much for the input, much appreciated

I decideret to sell my hermod and the CV sequencer. Got a plaits.and a sequential switch adder to my system.for sub i have a sub101 duo coming from analog lab swiss.

So for now i use my korg sq1 with plaits.

One Thing im abit unsure about and havent wrapped my head around (need to watch some tutorials)is maybe getting rid of gran terminal and the expander.think its a Hard module to figure out.and maybe get something like erbeverb. Desmodus fx aid xl instead.
Also need to figure out a good way to use PNW in my system.

Can anyone give me some pointers in ways to patch the sequential switch ?

It's worth mentioning for posterity and because we here love chaos, that the Batumi echoey firmware implements what is called "Verhulst's logistics map" . Since Batumi vanilla is just regular LFO this may not be obvious but it is a pretty useful implemtation such that you can have the four generators running independent or phased versions of the chaos and will have corresponding frequency synced sin and square waves not to mention self modulating possibilities for frequency modulation of each generator. 😎
-- slippage

Could you post a video clips of this?

So, here is version 3:

Very basic setup with v/oct coming from the BSP to the oscillators and triggers from BSP to Zadar. Then a couple of effects and modulations. I replaced one of the bOSC with a Plaits for more flexibility.

Yeah I think if that's what you want to do your best bet may be to sell the Black Sequencer and get something like the TipTop Z8000 instead. You may lose certain features but you'll then have multiple sequencers in one module and you may also come away with a few $ in the transaction.

You get 4 channels of Pre-amp in this https://www.modulargrid.net/e/making-sound-machines-tausend-db

I recently picked up a Blue Lantern Booster Array which has 8 separate preamps in 10hp for under $100. I’m using it with the individual outs of a drum machine but it’s great with other line level gear too. Works perfectly. Highly recommended. I think it might be a limited run, but there were a few still available on Reverb last time I checked.
Have fun!

Well, check my latest post above. I get the what and why of what's needed here, I'm simply offering options so that it's more apparent that there's solutions OUTSIDE of the DAW environment, as well as VST solutions within it.

I must have missed that one. I know the TC Clarity quite well - I have several units at work where we use it for sound normalisation to EBU R 128 for TV broadcast. It's overkill for what I have in mind at the moment, but thanks for the suggestion. If I feel the need to upgrade, I will definitely consider it.

Hello friends.

If you would be so kind as to take a look at this horror I've been cooking up and judge me:

My lack of filters is where I'm hoping most of my mistakes are, and that you can help solve this!

Thank you for your time and patience from myself and all fellow newbs who post their mistakes here.

EDITED Mar 3rd 2022, 13:32

Hi all,

Following up on the advice I received from the previous post (https://www.modulargrid.net/e/forum/posts/index/11058). Is this new version nearer the mark? I tried to keep @JimHowell1970 's formula in mind this time. Is this distribution of modulators and utilities more reasonable? Any feedback or suggestions would be welcome!

Thanks!

I don't have any experience with either the Dot or the Black Sequencer, so take this with a grain of salt, but it looks there is just the one clock input on the sequencer, and the channels all run off of divisions or multiplications of that same master clock, so I'm not seeing how you can use two separate channels from the dot to advance channels 1 & 2 separately.
-- adaris

I see. That makes sense. Honestly, don’t laugh, on top of being a noob, I can be dumb, too lol. …but is there a way to like split a clock signal or whatever so that we could somehow work around this? Or would you suggest a secondary sequencer to do what I’m trying to do?

This is basically what I want to do. I do notice he’s using two sequencers together.

I don't have any experience with either the Dot or the Black Sequencer, so take this with a grain of salt, but it looks there is just the one clock input on the sequencer, and the channels all run off of divisions or multiplications of that same master clock, so I'm not seeing how you can use two separate channels from the dot to advance channels 1 & 2 separately.

Hi there,

So I’m building a somewhat basic setup with my Behringer neutron. I have doepfer A-180-2 Mult, a Doepfer A-138 mixer, Dnipro Dot, and a Black Sequencer.

I’d like to know how to patch my Dnipro Dot channels 1/2 into the channels 1 and 2 on the sequencer. Is this possible? Basically want to sequence/run each oscillator individually, but rhythmically with the Dot so that each step progresses with a trigger from the Dot.

Could you please tell me how I could patch this as I’ve experimented so many ways without any luck.

Grateful for your time!

Hi there,

As a guitar player who moved into modular some tips, first get the book Patch & Tweak such a great guide for beginners to modular! Next download a copy of the free software VCV Rack, it is super helpful to learn how modules and patching work.

I'm not quite sure what modules to start with. I know I need an oscillator, modulation source, sequencer and a VCA so I was thinking of Plaits, Maths, Marbles, and Intellijel''s Quad VCA

Definitely need a good sized case and power supply. I recommend 9u size at minimum and 12u if you can get that for the capable need to not exhaust space too soon. Amalgamod, Doepfer and MLDR make nice cases/power supplies.

Utilities are most important since you can get a lot of mileage with a single VCO and Filter.
You want VCAs, CV mixer, attenuators, mults, LFOs and so forth. I started with Batumi LFO, Doepfer VCO/filter, envelope generator/ADSR, and an Intellijel VCA that is great.

How would I be able to record into Ableton or perform live using a Focusrite 4i4?
Send output from mixer in modular system to an audio interface. I use a MOTU audio interface that receives output from my modular mixer and works well with my DAW and computer.

What are the best resources to get more comfortable with actually patching this rig

Download VCV Rack software on your computer and try building a modular system and patches!
The book Patch & Tweak is great as well.

I hope you're enjoying the Brenso. It's a lovely module.

Thanks for your post. I do have a nice set of monitors (DMAX SuperCubes) but this is besides the point of this thread. I'm looking to build an instrument, not to further expand my studio.
-- Arrandan

Well, check my latest post above. I get the what and why of what's needed here, I'm simply offering options so that it's more apparent that there's solutions OUTSIDE of the DAW environment, as well as VST solutions within it.

Here's a video for a recent track "Briefly" from a new album project.

Full album here:
https://solitaireousolidaire.net/listen.html

The track in the video is modular synth, guitar, and some stuff from Spitfire Audio libraries.
The modular is a lot of Serge Eurorack from Random*Source and Analog Research (NTOs, DUSG, SSG, VCM, VCFQ, ANC, Random, TKB) plus Elby Designs Chaotica and Matrix Mixer and a track from Arbhar as well and some other utilities.

All the best.

I am very open for inputs and comments. I was thinking as well what do you think of the endorphins furthrrrr generator? Is it maybe better to get rid of it and get some smaller VCOs because of the space limit here.

-- Melivora

The size is a definite drawback. As is the price. If you want to stay with the West Coast oscillator architecture, it seems far more sensible to go with the source of this idea: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/tiptop-audio-buchla-258t Same idea, but $578 cheaper and 12 hp smaller. Two of those would fit into 36 hp, which is the Furrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrthhh's width plus 6 more hp.

The other stumbling block here is the Queen of Pentacles. For one thing, it eats up yet another 30 hp. Secondly, it's got that same cost issue; if the 909 sound is what you need, just go and buy one of Uli's RD-9s and save $320, then lock it up to the synth's clock (or come up with your own clock distro solution). Plus, kicking THAT one out altogether will open up plenty of space to fix the "voice vs utes" issue here. You can also then go with a smaller sequencer that only handles CV/gate, instead of the extra drum channels here. Or, why not go with a Beatstep Pro or Keystep Pro? The former gives you two CV/gate channels and a pile of drum sequencing "lanes", while the latter adds a keyboard to that, more or less, and neither take any cab space that could be used for something NOT available as an outboard device.

The only reason you'd need an oscilloscope in a typical studio...and it's a BIG one...is to check stereo phasing on your mixdowns. (...)
Now, the other sort of display I'd recommend isn't a scope...but an RTA. Real-time Analyzers let you see the levels across the entire sound spectrum, and they can come in handy when trying to chase down hard-to-kill frequency "lumps" that're jumping out of the mix. And if you don't have a reliable set of monitors (and why wouldn't you? your monitor chain is probably THE MOST CRITICAL DEVICE in the studio), you can use the RTA to try and fix the discrepancies in the mix that your monitors are causing.

Hi Lugia,

Thanks for your post. I do have a nice set of monitors (DMAX SuperCubes) but this is besides the point of this thread. I'm looking to build an instrument, not to further expand my studio. So why the scope? I find it really useful to see what a filter, modulation or effect does to the waveform. As I stated, I'm a very visual person. I associate high frequencies with sharp angles on a screen. So when I put e.g. a low pass filter with lfo on cutoff frequency on a sawtooth, I see these ripples of higher frequencies come in as the frequency goes up and it starts to form the sharp sawtooth edge. It is the combined experience of seeing this and hearing it happen that gives me the full picture. It's a personal thing, perhaps, but it helps me. Also, of course, a realtime spectrum analyser is very useful for a variety of situations, particularly for mixing. So yeah, I'm looking to get some sort of visualisation on the phone for what the instrument is doing, even when not using it in my studio.

It would be neat to list which expanders are available for the current modules when editing a rack/viewing a module.
-- bofh

+1 on that. Granted, the expander info is in the module descriptions in a lot of these cases, but having an in-page link to the expander from its "parent" module would actually be pretty helpful. For one thing, it would clarify that there IS an expander in the first place, but I think it would also help with giving builders a clearer set of options about those expanders. The only drawback is that it would involve a lot of scrambling around in the database and setting up links, but this may well be worth the effort.

can;t both of these be handled in a DAW? and the phasing issues be handled (at least to a large extent) by checking the mix in mono? which especially for bass heavy dance music is a pretty important step - as most clubs sound systems are effectively mono...

-- JimHowell1970

They sure can...and if someone's more accustomed to the various display options that you can have in a DAW, then that's probably what they need to use. Me, I like the various displays right up in front, so what I use these days is a TC Clarity-M Stereo that gives me a phasescope, RTA, and a couple more tricks without robbing DAW processor cycles. It's definitely related to why I have a bunch of outboard processors along with the various plugins, as I can do a lot of that sound processing in outboard and then minimize the VST load in the machine.

Here’s how I ultimately went (the quad VCA goes into an external mixer for now):

Thanks again for all the help!

Ok, thanks Jim. Sounds like I might as well get a module to handle it instead. I can always screw it in/out if I only need it sporadically etc!

the pre-amp might help - but you will still be very quiet within a modular system

you may be able to get away with going straight in to the modular and skipping the pre-amp

you'll still need something to get up to modular level - an instrument interface or a vca that actually amplifies like veils for example

you'll probably also want an envelope follower, gate extractor and possibly a pitch follower

some instrument interfaces will include one or more of these - sonicsmith e1 has all of them and more, i believe

envelope and pitch following are available in the disting in the same algo - so available at the same time - definitely on mk4 and ex, not sure about earlier versions

gate extractor is basic logic - high when envelope is above a certain voltage...

nb pitch extraction is often glitchy - and very glitchy when trying to process anything other than clean single notes

Where is the Case???
-- Broken-Form

It may be here but yesterday all my links were garbage. If that link takes you to some Neutron in the bottom row of a 9U case then I have you the wrong link. I have no idea why this issue exists but it’s not an issue for me. My phone and computer have the accurate case and I can’t even find the mystery case this discussion is about without clicking a link in an email that yet again someone is making a comment about a rack that’s got sweet fuck to do with me or mine. It’s an eternal mystery.

Please see the link to my updated live Techno case.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/command_center/197880

I am very open for inputs and comments. I was thinking as well what do you think of the endorphins furthrrrr generator? Is it maybe better to get rid of it and get some smaller VCOs because of the space limit here.

Thanks

EDITED Feb 26th 2022, 16:21

Is there a way I can see better the modules names, can you maybe list them? Or is there a link to this case so that i can see the information on there? Would help greatly, thanks

Thanks gill909 for your version of my live case. I will check out these modules a bit.

Where is the Case???

I have a bunch of weird things like a kalimba wired to a delay, with a mini jack out, etc that would be fun to get into the rack but don’t want to have a dedicated module to do this.

Was thinking of something like an ART preamp. Is this a terrible idea? What do I need to watch out for/avoid? Thanks!

https://www.americanmusical.com/art-tube-mp-studio-microphone-preamp/p/ART-TMPSTU?src=Y0802G00SRCHCAPN&adpos=&scid=scplpART+TMPSTU&sc_intid=ART+TMPSTU&gclid=CjwKCAiAvOeQBhBkEiwAxutUVAhUj5qbdI91DhENRpTwuDSSdq8a4WY4FTXIT-G1KRzEFmC8vmK_JRoCMi4QAvD_BwE

EDITED Feb 26th 2022, 12:23

It would be neat to list which expanders are available for the current modules when editing a rack/viewing a module.

EDITED Feb 26th 2022, 07:50

I have loved using MG; thank you for building it!

I have three things I'd find really useful:

1. I really enjoy using racks to build/plan my "wishlist" of modules that I'd like to buy and figure out where to put the new ones... so some of the modules in my rack I own already (and they're in my Collection), but others I don't yet own. It'd be amazing to be able to dim them (e.g. put a 50% opacity solid black/white div over the image) as "placeholders". That way I can see where I'd like to put the modules I haven't bought yet, and at a glance tell which I have and which I don't have. A small add-on would be to show two total cost numbers for the rack: total, and total to buy (wishlist, or things not in my Collection). A toggle in the rack settings ("Dim things not in my collection") would let people opt-in to this display mode. I'd guess this could be based on the "in Collection" boolean/flag for each module.

2. The total-rack power values are great, but sometimes I toggle back and forth between the Data Sheet view and the Rack view to see row-by-row statistics (which are at the bottom of the DS table). It'd be fantastic to be able to turn on/off a row-statistics view to the side of the rack, aligned with that row. Module count (passive count, too, but not as important to me), and power consumption in the row. That would let me see things like a specific row has a lot of power-hungry modules and the row below/above it doesn't, so that I can move things around to balance that out. An add-on here would be to make the "consolidate space" button that rearranges modules take power-balancing into consideration, too!

3. Rack statistics, and maybe even Collection statistics: I am a bit of a nerd for how my rack (and my module Collection) is balanced: each module has tags for functions (e.g. Oscillator, LPG, etc)... what percentage of the modules in the rack are Oscillators? How many things that can be LFOs do I have? Do I have way too many VCAs (how could that even happen?)? A chart would be awesome, but even just a table showing counts would be fun. In the same way, what about manufacturer breakdown (This rack is 30% Instruo, 41% DIY, 3% Make Noise, etc), module widths, or other facts about the rack in aggregate? I am the type of person to build a spreadsheet to figure stuff like this out, but maybe other people aren't ... like that.

Thanks for asking for feedback/ideas!
-- gimbalgambit

These ideas are brilliant. I was hunting in here for an API discussion, as a few times now I’ve had to resort to copying from my rack data sheet to a spreadsheet and stripping out the text (“mA”, “mm”, “hp”) to better-arrange my modules according to power zones. Allowing some sort of API access like this for Unicorns, along with pull requests for other features that can be opted into for Unicorns, would circumvent this.

Would it be possible to display the current firmware version for modules where applicable..?

Would depend on the community/manufacturer to keep it up to date but would mean I look in one place
-- matt_was_taken

This could already be added into the description field by the community or manufacturers.

I have two feature requests of my own:

1. a few times I’ve had my panel changed when somebody had added an aftermarket version, most recently with Pamela’s New Workout - I was surprised to find I suddenly had a black panel. It may be a good idea to give a manufacturer-prefenced first panel option.
2. The current method of dealing with modules with optional 5V on certain modules is clunky at best (different versions for e.g. BIA, SMR, RCD) and broken at worst (no version for Mordax DATA). Is there a way an optional voltage flag could be enabled per-module?

EDITED Feb 26th 2022, 07:07

headphone dongle wont' really help except for audio - for low frequencies you'd still need a dc-coupled interface and a usb dongle for the phone - nb you only get 2 channels this way

I'll just get myself one of those dongles for €10 and see if it does what I need. I also noticed that my Zoom H2n has a built-in tuner, but that's microphone based.

having mostly been in the same situation for most of my adult life, I've never had an issue being in front of a computer for a bit longer in order to do stuff I want to do - use a DAW, etc and for a long time if I wanted to watch any tv or movies it was also in front of a computer...

I hear you! And I have done the same. I find it very tiring. I'm aiming to be a bit more "Look mum no computer". Even if I don't use it all the time, it'll still be there to turn ideas from the modular into songs.

Yes, but at least they're velocity sensitive, unlike the SQ-64.

not via the trigger outs they're not - via midi they are I guess - never used mine other than via cv though

Oh blimey. I was actually eyeing the Digitakt as well, also because it'll be a fun standalone machine that I can take to family holidays without taking over the whole car booth. One of the reasons I took it off my list is the velocity sensitivity.

With modulation, I meant wave modulation actually. I agree that LFOs are better kept separate. It's why I have the A145-4 in there. LFOs serve one purpose, VCOs another and as with my short rant about O&C, I don't like tools that mix up purposes.

I don't really see any wavetable oscillators - I think I'd want a more ergonomic quad lfo...

Good point about the quad LFO. It also doesn't have a sine wave. As for the VCO - wavetable isn't necessary to do modulation. There's ring and FM etc that can all be done with two VCOs. I might actually want lots more VCOs if I'm going that route!

temps utile, random triggers, clock divider and multiplier, buffered mults and harmonaig all seem a little superfluous - you have 8 trigger outs and 2 cv/gate/velocity outputs (all with probability iirc) on the BSP and no percussion and only 2 vcos in the rack...

I am going to do percussion based on the noise generators.

I was thinking of using the Temps Utile, clock & random bits to to the rythm, but you're right - all of that is in the BSP... It's going to be much easier to control it all from there instead of programming it on the modular itself! It seems like I was walking on two parallel paths at the same time. It'll save me serious money that I can put towards a Maths.

And the Harmonaig - yeah, I'll need more VCOs if I want to use that at all...

in the larger rack - the droid stuff seems to be in a similar place - the chipz I would replace with a Maths, the 2 dvcas I'd replace with a veils - and I'm not convinced of the need for 2 dplrs - and I'm not convinced about the mix solution - no panning and no send/returns...

Yeah, that stereo bit... Always feels like a good idea to me, but I'm starting to feel it's not in its right place here. I'm going to keep it mono and do the stereo part in the DAW afterwards.

Necrobump, but I agree. That 150mA on +12V is can be better utilised by other modules that are actually drawing it ;)

try refreshing your rack before re linking it
-- JimHowell1970

It’s fine on my end and that’s all I need it to be. I don’t know why the url that works for me does not otherwise. I don’t have any idea how to find the rack with the Neutron in it unless I link to it from my email notification that someone has replied to this. If I log in and go to the my modular feature there is no issue. These comments are not under the accurate case with no Neutron.

EDITED Feb 26th 2022, 16:48

try refreshing your rack before re linking it