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What baffles me is the fact that certain people keep screwing around with other peoples work. ModularGrid is a wonderful tool and we can all enjoy it for free. At least have the courtesy to not ruin this place for others.

A bunch of kiddies seem to think they're in the resistance fighting for the good cause. Like Behringer actually care what goes on here.

A user named LYFoulidis has changed all Behringer modules to "blind panel" yesterday. Can an admin remove these edits?

Hi AndyGuelcher. You mention that you would like this to be a "performance" system. How do you envision performing with the modules you have selected so far? The WMD mixer and Voltage Block will probably give you some hands-on tweaking, but you may want to look into some extra utilities like switches (Acid Rain Switchblade is a fun one), an OR logic module like the Low Gain Short Bus so that you can combine triggers to tweak and combine beats on the fly, some of the SoundMachines touch plates (or the Make Noise Pressure Points), and my favorite: Future Sound Systems Makrow.
If you are really interested in creating a performance oriented system, you will probably want as many interactive and hands-on modules as possible. That is kind of how I have developed my own techno performance rack.
Also, the Javelin is really cool but I think you will find a need for a lot more envelopes and/or LFOs. I would get rid of the 2hp modules and Javelin to add something like a Quadrax or Noise Engineering Pons Asinorum. The Plasma Drive is taking up an awful lot of space too. Maybe consider the Erica Drum Mixer (with integrated compressor) and one of the Noise Engineering 4hp distortion modules. In my view, that would be a better use of space. This is still a fairly small system, and you will need to maximize every single hp.
Hope that gives you some ideas to consider.
Have fun and good luck!

All Behringer modules are showing up as "Blind Panel". I fixed the tags for some modules, but it seems that all modules have been changed.

it really depends what you are trying to aim for long term - this just adds a oscillator and a few basic effects

personally I would start by expanding the modulation capabilities some more

maths (see the 'maths illustrated supplement'), links, kinks, shades and veils (or modules that add the same functionality)

and then look at maybe adding another voice (sound source, sound modifier, modulation source) and ways to combine them more - a matrix mixer for modulation and an end of chain mixer (unless you have an external one already)

if you want to get the most variety out of your patches try to think in this ratio:

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

I would also suggest reading a load of other - 'how to expand my (insert name of semi-modular)' threads - they are all relevant
-- JimHowell1970

Thank you! I think what I'm interested in mostly at first is things to add flavor to the sequences that I make with the S2. That's why I thought of reverb and delay and stuff like that...but I also would eventually like my system to allow me to make sequences of sounds I like, but also generative patches so it basically plays itself and I can manipulate it with settings and effects.

So disgraceful... What baffels me is that there is still a market for a cheap plastic eurorackmodule line, like their 29€ pedals. Just get a small team, design your own cirucits and release a super low-cost set of modules....
-- Gemuesepfanne

Hello, I have a few of the Behringer modules and can confirm there is nothing wrong with the build quality. I recently bought the Behringer 140 which has two adsr's with two outputs for the envelope and one inverted envelope (excellent) and also a very feature packed lfo. I got all that for £70 so over the moon with that purchase.

I'd be interested if the experts here could build all that functionality in a smaller hp footprint and as competitively priced. It would be nice to have the lights on the sliders included like I have which look slick when the lights in my room are dimmed. I am even thinking of investing in most of the Roland line just for the sheer aesthetics of how beautiful it looks.

Also I bought the 914 filter back for £46 and when I was researching this I remember seeing one by AJH at £475 which seemed like too much money to invest in for something I wouldn't be using all the time.

Best :)

I enjoy the Malekko Voltage Block, a 16x8 CV sequencer. Very fun to use. It is 20hp, so it takes up some space, but I've found it very useful for modulation and tweaking arpeggios on the fly.

Thank you for your advice.

Could you recommend a dedicated 16x4 CV sequencer that you enjoy? Are we talking René, or is there something more cost effective and beginner friendly?

maybe look at 2hp for a kick and snare - maybe even a hats - do check for depth though - 2hp can be quite deep and the nifty case does not seem that deep
-- JimHowell1970

Just a heads up that any 42mm deep 2hp modules should fit just fine in the Nifty. I've had the VCO and the VCA in that case, and while it is tight, there is still a few mm of clearance once seated.

Maths/quadrax/pams is probably more than enough for modulation - what's your use case for o&c?

O&C is a great universal module. It can do duty as a sequencer, modulation source, quantizer, and so forth. It was a module I started with and would still recommend.

mimetic digitalis looks very fiddly for a sequencer - I would do some research - if possible try one out before buying - sequencers are quite important in terms of workflow - if you don't get on with your sequencer(s) you will not get one with your modular

I own a Mimetic Digitalis. It's nice for improv stuff. I find it preferable for modulations but for note pitch... not as much. But it's 16 steps by 4 channels in a small space. If you have the room for a dedicated 16x4... by all means. But for jamming, it's nice, especially hooking it up to a couple of Euclideans for advancing steps or jumping/resetting the sequencee.

also the lack of something to combine triggers would seem frustrating - euclidean circles and pams - maybe a trigger combiner - or a switched multiple

A logic module capable of "OR" is great for combining triggers. A Blue Lantern CMOS party is $80US.

-- JimHowell1970

Thanks again, this is very sound advice!

So disgraceful... What baffels me is that there is still a market for a cheap plastic eurorackmodule line, like their 29€ pedals. Just get a small team, design your own cirucits and release a super low-cost set of modules....
-- Gemuesepfanne

but that is effectively what they have done... from their point of view the aluminium faceplates may work out not that much more expensive due to economies of scale - and the sales of modules are no where near the numbers for guitar pedals - worldwide there are millions of guitarists, most of whom have some pedals - an existing market - whereas with synthesizers there may well be millions of synthesists - but only a small percentage of them have modulars - a much smaller existing market... and for the ones that don't have modulars, it's easier to sell them semis - as they don't require racks, power or sometimes patch cables

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 15:18

No problem

I think the best way to look at it is that it is as a long term project

get a minimum viable synth:

sound source (vco) - plaits is popular and versatile
sound modifier (filter, delay etc) - I'd go for a low pass filter probably - doepfer do quite a few different ones for a reasonable price
modulation source (lfo/env gen/functino gen) - maths - google - 'maths illustrated supplement'
a way to listen - you got it already -4ms module
a way to play - again already got it - Pam's - will do
a decent sized case - already got it - mantis

and ideally a few utility modules - I usually recommend links, kinks, shades, veils (or similar modules - mia instead of shades for example)

and start patching - give it at least a month to learn those modules - as you patch you will work out what you are missing - take note and research and ask questions - buy one of the modules that you are missing, whatever that is -

then buy modules slowly - and save for the next case by sticking (cost of case * hp of module)/ (hp of case) in a jar - when your case is full you will have money for the next one!

you can build up a decent sized modular that will do what you want (and that you will know very well) over as long as you want to take - even a budget of €50-100/month will fill a mantis in a few years - this gives you time to research each new module thoroughly and to learn it back to front in conjunction with your existing modules

in lots of ways this is much better than buying loads of modules at once as that method can be overwhelming and often leads to not knowing your modules that well

all publicity is good publicity - we are all talking about them - the more we talk about them the more people hear the name etc etc etc

there's an Irish airline called Ryanair - their CEO has a similar approach - so he's been known to suggest standing room only flights and charging 5€ to use the toilet

every time he comes out with one of these the share prices go up

-- JimHowell1970

My sentiments exactly. The only reason I have heard of this module is because there's a discussion here, not that there's any problem with that.

So disgraceful... What baffels me is that there is still a market for a cheap plastic eurorackmodule line, like their 29€ pedals. Just get a small team, design your own cirucits and release a super low-cost set of modules....

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 10:42

Thank you very much for your advice, it's really useful.

I'm becoming increasingly convinced, that a system this size will not be able to do all the things I originally imagined it would. I think I have to re-evaluate my plans. I'm glad I haven't invested much in parts yet.

just to add that in my experience it doesn't matter whether you buy used modules, new modules, cheap modules, expensive modules, DIY them yourself - you spend the same amount of money on modules - you just get more modules for your money (and possibly some tools - soldering iron etc and wood work equipment mainly - so you can build more cases)

distings can be used for lots of things - including almost everything I mentioned (not sure there is a granular algo) - I really recommend that you read the manual of every module you are considering buying before you buy it - otherwise you will be buying modules that do not do what you want them to - possibly confusing different types of module etc

but each disting can only do 1 thing at a time - unless you get the ex which mostly works as 2 mk4s - although some algos use all of it at once

for a complete basic synth voice you need:

a sound source (a vco), a sound modifier (a low pass filter), a modulation source (an lfo/envelope generator/function generator), a way to listen (I'd use a quad cascading vca such as veils to start with) and a way to play it (sequencer/midi->cv/cv keyboard)

I also strongly recommend links/kinks/shades as a great starter utility set

for a modulation source - I always recommend Make Noise Maths as it is a brilliant learning tool, mainly because of the 'maths illustrated supplement' it is a guide to self patching (patch programming) maths with 32 illustrated examples - a great way to learn modular thinking and patching - working your way through the supplement a few times is a great learning experience - in fact I'd usually recommend this as a first module to go with semis - it will replace both the doepfer dual slew limiter and function generator and add a second function generator and some other useful functions - and only take up another 4 hp

I'd much rather have Doepfer modules (I have quite a few actually) than behringer (I have none) - they are inexpensive, but have a much longer track record of manufacturing eurorack modules - Dieter invented the format - Uli seems to be an ass - not just because of cloning everything and anything (and sometimes in a dumb way - exact clones of early synth modules are not always totally compatible with other eurorack modules etc)

nb personally I wouldn't want a doepfer midi->cv module (I've heard some people have difficulty getting them to work - not sure which ones though) - I'd want more channels though

there are many other inexpensive brands - and some more expensive brands make modules that are more than worth the extra $/€/£ - due to combining functions cleverly

at the end of the day it comes down to do you want to support the big company with poor ethics, or a smaller company with (at least slightly) better ones - do you want to give your money to the original designer (if possible) or do you not care

personally I prefer smaller sometimes more innovative companies (Doepfer is 4 people in Germany, Mutable is 1 in France etc etc) behringer is 1000s mostly in China

behringer quality appears to be poor (nb this is based on watching a few videos and reading forums, I've never seen a behringer module in real life - although I have seen other products from them that were poor quality in the past) - they use stickers on their knobs that have a tendency to fall off, print on panels that is easy to remove etc etc

as always when something appears on the market and appears to be significantly cheaper than a lot of the competition - the 1st question should be how?

economies of scale - behringer can achieve economy of scale like no other synth manufacturer - partly due to their size, but also due to the fact that they own factories that manufacture a lot of 'reissue' chips - which they and other manufacturers use

quality of components - most module manufacturers use thonkiconn jack sockets - these have nuts for the front panel - and also use pots with nuts to hold them to the front panel (and put knobs on them that don't fall apart, see above) these hold the module together well - behringer uses neither from what I can see - they'd be much better if they had spent an extra 2$/€/£ on panel components and charged an extra 10$/€/£

cheap manufacture - behringer is effectively a fmcg company - all their manufacture is in china - most modular companies either build themselves in their garage or shed or attic - or get stuff fabricated locally - Mutable uses a fab in france for example

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 09:10

Thank you for all your honest opinions. Im just looking on a good deal on a Doepfer system with some basic modules, so I want to plan a system on this forum to get ideas and vision for the long way. I will also have to learn more about utilities and vcas. I will have to build up this system slowly, and maybe ideas will changes over time. Im just glad to plan a system on here, reading modules, and interacting with this nice community. Thank you so much!

however mostly when I think of ambient I think of delays and reverbs, vcas and sample and hold and to some extent granular - not really enough of these - unless you are intending to use the distings for this - in which case while disting is an excellent module - get dedicated ones of these - multiples in fact

What can I use the distings for this case?

what you have in actual modules is nowhere near being suitable as a synth voice.

Which modules should I go for to complete a synth voice with my basic modules?

And what are your thoughts on Behringer modules?
Thank you for your advices!

all publicity is good publicity - we are all talking about them - the more we talk about them the more people hear the name etc etc etc

there's an Irish airline called Ryanair - their CEO has a similar approach - so he's been known to suggest standing room only flights and charging 5€ to use the toilet

every time he comes out with one of these the share prices go up

EDITED Jul 6th 2021, 04:13

some of the fx aid algorithms do the mono->stereo thing too

you are trying to do too much of it in too small a space

I would pick either evolving ambient or faster electronic music to start with and also leave out the drums (drum machines are so much cheaper)

there are too many sound sources in the rack - and not enough support modules to get the most out of them

a good place to start looking would be mixing - try to imagine mixing the sound sources/modifiers in the rack - some of them are stereo - some are mono - not enough channels to manage all of it well - no mono->stereo sub-mixing to feed to the effects - your mixing solution needs a serious rethink - yes you could 'mix' everything - using veils etc - but your options are very limited and won't leave a lot of mising /vca channels for other things

you probably want a filter for the MCO

Maths/quadrax/pams is probably more than enough for modulation - what's your use case for o&c?

mimetic digitalis looks very fiddly for a sequencer - I would do some research - if possible try one out before buying - sequencers are quite important in terms of workflow - if you don't get on with your sequencer(s) you will not get one with your modular

also the lack of something to combine triggers would seem frustrating - euclidean circles and pams - maybe a trigger combiner - or a switched multiple

and speaking of multiples - I would get a few stackcables and/or headphone splitters as well as looking at a buffered mult or maybe 2 (often they come in pairs) - perhaps links - that has 2 - one of which can be used as a a 2in 1 out mixer/precision adder (for adding v/oct signals) and a second simple mixer - very useful - as is kinks if you can find one (3 useful utilities you don't have)

Fun times jamming with another modular synth enthusiast this weekend

H. L.g..,

DMT? Th.r. .s th.s f.nt.st.c pl.n.t th.t h.s m.ch b.tt.r st.ff th.n th.t. Tr. 2 go 2 planet DrgsAllUCn U53 ;-)

S.rry c.nn.ct..n .s dr.pp.n., g..d by. G.rf..ld.

I just wonder what sort of weirdass wiring in Uli's head makes him do things like this. One minute, he's reissuing synths and other devices that are legendary pieces of "unobtainium", and the next he's ripping off small manufacturers and insulting music journalists. When he's not putting out things that give modern players the ability to use classic hardware (to varying degrees of success), he's really giving his own firm a big black eye and making it embarrassing to own anything from Behringer. Doesn't seem like a sensible business model to me...

OK, Garfield...where'd you get the DMT?

Another fave, also 6 hp: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/frequency-central-stasis-leak-

The Stasis Leak has the ability to "stereoize" signals via its effects...mono in, stereo out, with your choice of tap delay, chorus, or reverb.

https://www.memecenter.com/fun/574238/please-dont-feed-the-trolls

Hi Wedoh,

Oh come on, you must be joking! This "Drifting through Space" is topping everything about space here ;-) Clicking for the 2nd time the play button. I got stuck on earthlings-date 03-07-2021 on planet Ioptraly 7Y5, that's considered still within the inner-hyper-space zone, hence the 3-alpha-digit code behind the planet. I wasn't able to leave Ioptraly 7Y5, your music was good enough to get me there but so far I never made it to go much further...

I am saying this because here in the inner-hyper-space zone Ioptraly 7Y5 is rather known (I didn't know that when I just arrived on the 3rd of July earthy year 2021) as a famous transit planet to go to the intermediate-hyper-space zone. You need something seriously strong to be able to do that, never managed to do that just yet. However now listening to your "Drifting through Space" that seems to be just that what I needed to go to the intermediate-hyper-space zone, what an experience!

I will tell you upfront (kind of spoiler), this is seriously scary, never experienced this before and I would say I am kind of intermediate experienced with hyper space travelling ;-) This intermediate-hyper-space zone where I am now... that's seriously scary. I am travelling for how long now already? Need to Zopple to see how long in earthly understandings... give me a minute...

Ah yes, what we called light years, I have travelled around 785 million light years now and... seriously never seen this, all the way through this distance/time I haven't seen a thing. Nothing, seriously nothing, this is scary! Normally you use to see a few stars or a planet if you are lucky but at least something, but here is just nothing, nothing at all and that for such a long distance/time!

Time is disappearing here too. Here on earth this message would take me hours to write, here in intermediate-hyper-space zone it's a matter of a few micro seconds or something. Yo.. d.dn t not.c. ye th.t th. Int.rn.t c.nn.ct..n is dr.pp.ng?

D.d I m.nt..ned .lre.dy th.t th.s is s.r...sly f..k.ng sc.ry? W.ll th.nk. a l.t f.r th.s gr..t .xp.r.nc. not s.r. w.en I w.l. b. b.ck. K.n. r.g.rd., G.rf..l.

Taking bets on us having a Behringer 'Algebra' by the end of 2021. A sub $130 takes on Maths, like for like in every manner, only they have scribbled 'fuck you' right where the make noise logo use to be.

a effects module that get reccommended alot here is the FX Aid XL(gonna get that one myself later this year)

Also if you wanna get a 2nd mantis case,and you are located in EU.i have one i dont use anymore,pm me if interested

There is a typo in the name it should be "Foul Play".

I tried to explain again but you’re only making yourself look even more childish. Whatever makes you feel good big boy, hope you enjoy.

“But the integrity!!” 😂
Go find a cause that matters.

Oh man…so much to think about. I dropped those modules in. I really like the Frap 321. I have to wrap my head around all of it. With the few modules I have…I go through the phase of just plugging things in and seeing what happens…to figuring out why that’s happening and then applying that knowledge to doing something planed out. I’m gonna have to take everyone’s advice and take out the DFAM. This has been super helpful. Gets me exploring other modules. Thanks!!!!

On trying to reply on posts regarding modules, I can preview my reply, but pressing 'submit' does nothing on W10 both Firefox and Edge.
-- tboy

Thanks for reporting, this should be fixed.

After I moved the module out of the rack into the scratch area, I was typing the name of another module into the entry field when I got a generic error message about something going wrong.
-- jreineke

Sorry for the trouble, there is currently a workaround: just disable the keyboard shortcuts. There is a slider above the rack to do that. One day there will be a real fix ...

Really nice work there :)
-- wishbonebrewery

Thank you so much! :-) Glad you like it! I appreciate your feedback.

Hi Wedoh,

Oh yes, you managed it, finally someone that managed to get me hyper spaced again. Wow, what a nice track! 6 minutes is the only negative thing I can find about this great track, this should have been 30 or 60 minutes! :-)

The last time I was hyper spaced here was by Troux on the 25th of January this earth year 2021, it took me a while to come back to earth, but having been far too long on earth, I have to thank you, Wedoh, on my bare knees, finally back into hyperspace ;-) Just arrived on planet Ioptraly 7Y5 (translated by Zopple), weird planet though, but hey, that's all part of this hyper space travelling, isn't it?

Ah come on, again your track just finished, going to press for the third time the play button, let's see if it can take me a bit further than Ioptraly 7Y5... in case you don't hear from me any more for a while... well that's because Wedoh's music took me too far away from planet Earth, no more Internet connection I am afraid...

Thank you very much Wedoh, hope to see you soon in hyperspace too ;-) Kind regards, Garfield.

P.S.: Don't forget to bring your hand towel!
-- GarfieldModular

Dear Garfield,

I don't know how to express my gratitude for your awesome appreciation. It makes me very happy to read your post, and it really makes me want to continue exploring. Thank you so so much!
Also i love the Hitchers guide to the galaxy references! :-)

Spacecraft really helped creating the spacey feeling. If you like tracks that are space inspired, you might like this track too:

In that track i use Clouds with maximum reverb and the NW-1 spectrum envelope to really space out slowly.

How’s that boot taste, snitches?
-- illiac

What are you, 12? What exactly did you not understand about the previous messages? Nobody’s saying they’re supporting Behringer (and even if someone is, that’s their choice). We’re supporting the integrity of ModularGrid’s information. Keep your hurt feelings out of the database.

Hello,

I'm trying to put a system together and I'm trying to take my time as much as possible: to be able to gather information and of course, to stay within my monthly budget.

All I have at the moment is a TipTop Mantis case, Pam's New Workout and the 4ms Listen Four. I also ordered the 3x MIA at Schneider's, but it's not on stock. I'm trying to make a system to be able to create evolving ambient with some interesting rythms, and maybe also some faster electronic music.

My current plan looks like this:

I'm thinking of getting Plaits, Mimetic Digitalis and Milky Way to start, and then slowly progressing further. I'm also thinking of adding an external Sequencer, like a Beatstep Pro at some point. I figure the Mindphaser would be among the last things I'll get.

As you can see, filters are missing. I'm pretty unsure at this point how many and which ones I should go for. As for effects, maybe I should also get another unit next to the Milky Way.

Thanks in advance for anyone giving their opinion.

EDITED Jul 5th 2021, 11:16

HI Broadpath

When I connected my ES6 to my ES8, I had all sorts of issues with the Mac defaulting to ADAT clock for the ES8. When I looked in Ableton the ins and outs from the ES8 and ES6 were not available to me. The workaround for me was to set the ES8 to internal clock which seems to have sorted my issue.

I have a UAD Apollo Twin, UAD satellite and Behringer ADA8200 and I think its my UAD Apollo that serves as my master clock.

Everything plays in time and works now with these settings, so I thought It might be useful for others reading this thread.

Thanks

full support for intellijel!
-- samuelddy

I support!

How’s that boot taste, snitches?

full support for intellijel!

Our Fearless Leader is, in fact, very correct here. ModularGrid is designed as a neutral reference document, and just like how encyclopedias contain information that's quite disturbing, that can happen here as well. It's not a ringing endorsement of Behringer for their modules to appear here, it's simply listings...just like any other. And this isn't the first time that there's been listings by controversial manufacturers or for controversial products.

Yeah, I'll admit that what Uli's up to with these two new modules is pretty despicable. And what separates those from their other modules is that, while the other modules are also copies (sorta) of no-longer-existing modules (or, in the case of Moog, not-really-available modules, as you can only get theirs in prebuilt systems), the new ones are copies of VERY MUCH existing modules that are still in manufacture by Mutable and Intellijel. If Uli would just stick to reissues of the "greats", we'd still hear about him "ripping off" the designs, but no one would have bread taken from their mouth by that.

But does that mean that Uli gets tossed from MG? No. All MG is for here is making sure that you know what the module is, what it does, what size and power constraints does it have...and that's about it. Just like everyone other manufacturer who has listings here.

I spent a lot on modular this year and last but I’m done buying modules for a while. I need to fund a bunch of home repairs so that blows my music budget for a few years. All good as it will take me that long to really master my modules anyways.

Nice FX!!
I just sold the little one to get the XL...
Escape from noise should still have some.

and it does not feel right to set a manufacturer lock on behalf of their name.
-- modulargrid

I already love ModularGrid to bits, but your integrity just motivated me to get a unicorn account.

Behringer has no manufacturer account on MG and it does not feel right to set a manufacturer lock on behalf of their name.
That is currently the only way to lock the entry. If the edits do not stop very soon we will implement a technical solution.

ModularGrid is a database, like a directory of modules, we just show what is there. Discussions about the module here in the forum are o.k. but please stop replacing the image of the module with other unrelated silly images. Especially don't change the power specs with fantasy values. That is not helpful and will lead to numerous copies of this module which are a pain to track and merge.