Nope...that's a 4 x 22sp Dotcom format there. Not a bad base for a build, but I'd have to say that there's a shortage of VCOs...only six here that I see right off.
Sorry you had a bad experience, that's nothing like mine - quite the opposite!
I think it's just random, you are very direct, like me, I like that very much, but I also think it gets us in trouble when actually we mean no harm ;)
-- Kel_
Maybe. But at the same time, when I contacted Sweetwater to change the order, my sales engineer actually knew who I was talking about when I mentioned the incident...named him right off the bat without me mentioning it, and when I switched the order to the Argon8, his comment was "well...I can understand why you wouldn't want to put up with them". Another colleague who I've worked with for about 20+ years was totally perplexed by the mess, since he always dealt with Glen Darcey himself and not whoever this rep was/is.
It was a really weird encounter, and like I mentioned, it triggered a great deal of distrust in me, to the point of not wanting their synth anywhere near my studio. Modal's people, on the other hand, were the diametrical opposite...I had questions, they cordially answered them, and even gave me a heads-up on the MPE and a few other implementations in the V.2 firmware. But ultimately, I'm pleased with the Argon8...ESPECIALLY after the V.2 update. Modulatable waveshaping on wavetables? Wild! So it's not necessarily a loss here...having the onboard poly aftertouch and the ribbon would've been nice, true, but like I've mentioned, I can get my poly aftertouch and ribbon controller nut popped on a regular basis with my trusty CS-80. And if something goes wrong with the Argon8, I don't have to cringe at the thought of contacting customer service and getting some pissy jackass...because Modal don't play that. Consequently, Glen might want to do a little personnel research on his reps, because if Sweetwater's had issues...well, that is the LAST damn company a synth manufacturer would ever want to piss off!
My advice is...
If you like FM ... buy an ASM HYDRASYNTH instead ;)
-- Kel_
Just don't talk to anyone FROM ASM, as you stand a chance to wind up dealing with the same jackass I did. Not fun, and it'll put you right off that synth. I had mine on order for three months, paid, at Sweetwater and after that fiasco, I cancelled the order and switched it to an Argon8.
Yup...treat it like the "poor man's ARP 2500 Mixsequencer". Of course, we should have the ACTUAL poor man's ARP 2500 Mixsequencer before long, so I'm told.
Why plan for a bigger case? I'd suggest scrapping the 84 hp skiff and moving up to something MUCH bigger. This would be good: https://www.ericasynths.lv/shop/enclosures/studio/1x126hp-skiff-case/ Has ample power, still fits the 1 row form factor. But at that price point, you could also step on up to a 2 x 104 hp Mantis, which is also powered but is even beefier on that aspect than the Erica. Plus, Tiptop has a mounting bracket that allows you to tandem TWO Mantises into a four-row configuration. This seems more sensible because of that as well; if you find that you want to expand the Eurorack to more than just a sidecar for the Moog, this sort of advance planning is critical at THIS point in the process...don't try to retcon your case configuration in mid-build!
Oh, and if you do go to something larger, DON'T put the M32 in it. That's a waste of money, tbh, since the Moog already HAS a case and power...and those Moogs work nice together, so keeping it in its 60 hp cab for later Moog expansions would be a smart move.
My AE is quite infested with sequential switches...with the big purpose being to automate the generation of sequential structures that have more or less infinite iterations, or at least, damn close to infinite. And yes, there's several sequencers that make that go, but without the AE 3VCSWITCH, this sort of thing would be undoable.
Magnificent...and as a modular demo, it also excels. For one thing, we can CLEARLY SEE what's going on...the patchcords aren't matted all over the patchpanel like some sort of spaghetti-related debris. And another...and IMPORTANT...point made here is that the patch doesn't have to stop at the edge of the Eurorack cabs!
Love the frenetic percussion...about all it lacks would be a Minipops-type "fingersnap", but that's a matter of personal taste...
One warning: the Syinsi tiles use the "original" format, and Intellijel's tiles are based on a slightly different spacing. They WILL NOT work in an Intellijel-spaced tile row...and vice versa.
Much better approach. Now, some questions...
1) What do you see yourself doing with this build? What sort of music, what functionality, etc?
2) What do you see yourself doing with this build in five years?
3) What limiting parameters need to be in place, ie: money, space, portability/studio-only?
4) What background in electronic music do you have already? What gear are you comfortable with and/or found intriguing while getting that background?
5) What sort of learning curve do you envision here?
I'm not so much into making money off of this, mind you. For me, it's important to help people from making drastic mistakes...and there's PLENTY of drastic mistakes that can happen in modular. I just hate it when someone piles a bunch of expensive stuff into a case and then discovers that they paid thousands for an underpowered system...or worse, one that's inherently crippled to the point of uselessness. While this certainly leads to lots of eBay/Reverb/MG used gear cheapness, it's not the way I (and lots of others) would rather see those bargains emerge.
Well, I sure as hell don't see that balance. Frankly, this is a mess. First of all, you're overrunning the rack limits...which would tend to indicate that you should've started with a MUCH larger cab from the beginning. Plus, this is very poorly implemented; ONE envelope generator? Two buffered mults...for WHAT? And these HUGE modules...dude, this isn't a build size that can support having so many big panels. Shrink this stuff down.
Have you considered any of the following:
1) Do you know your own music well enough to specify what should go into a device to make it more optimally-suited for that music?
2) Do you know how the sounds in the music you're trying to emulate were generated in the first place?
3) Do you understand synthesis well enough to put the basic components together to do any of the first two?
Until those questions have definite, concrete answers...you're far more likely to build a boxful of expensive 'n' useless, NOT a synthesizer.
Two suggestions:
1) Get a patchable FIRST. Not only can such synths work as the core device in a modular system (sort of like what you're aiming at with the A-111-5), they also clearly show what's required for a system of your own design. And you'll discover what you can do with less superfluous junk as is here. Even a couple of simple-seeming tandemmed devices, such as a Make Noise 0-Coast/0-Ctrl pairing, would be much better for a starter than what's above.
2) VCV Rack. LEARN the basics before pulling out the Magic Plastic. VCV Rack is free, and has ample modules...some of which are even really accurate emulations of existing Eurorack hardware. Get used to using it and building up systems in it. Hang onto this rack design, then play with VCV for a few months. Then, come back to this design and re-evaluate it. I guarantee you'll be hitting "Delete Rack" fast enough to break the sound barrier! https://vcvrack.com/
I wouldn't build that. Not for a minute. First of all, I really have a major hate for panels that look like eyestrain waiting to happen. And the first time you take that rig out and gig live with it, in typical live gig lighting, you'll hate them too. Second of all, although it's a theoretically "complete" build from MG, that still doesn't make it a correctly-implemented build. Whoever cooked this up did a decent job on sources, decent enough on modulation, and just sort of screwed off where it comes to the utilities and other support modules. As a result, what you have here is a box of noisemakers, but scant else to turn those into a proper synthesizer.
One other point: what you want to do with this one box is probably beyond the scope of this one box. This is why quite a few of us who've been around this for a while keep saying "work the build out on MG FIRST...THEN start playing with the money!" So...you sold your gear off (save for the Pulsar) before sorting out how to proceed. Of all of the mistakes thus far, THAT is the biggest one. Before, you probably had everything you actually needed, but fell into the "familiarity breeds contempt" trap. It's not possible to stay viable in music...especially not these days...and make impulsive decisions. This one quote here actually describes the situation you feel you're in, and it speaks volumes: "I just copied a modulargrid from a googlesearch, as I said I want more of a complete system that someone else will choose for me because otherwise I will just read about all modules that exist and never buy anything."
Soooooo...you're perfectly content with other people coming up with your music for you, defining your work parameters, and such? That doesn't sound like a sensible plan, and bluntly, I wouldn't want to hear what you're doing if this is the case. Learn to do YOUR music, sort out YOUR hardware issues, and so on. Otherwise, you're wasting your time.
You might want to START the rack, first off. Eurorack modules DO NOT go in an API 500 series "Lunchbox".
OK, looking at Mouser's site as well as Taiwan Alpha's, these don't appear to be sealed pots. They should have SOME sort of opening to the resistor and wiper, according to what I'm seeing.
Get this first: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/DeoxIT--caig-laboratories-d5s-6-caig-deoxit-contact-cleaner-5-percent-spray-5-oz And frankly, if you're doing any sort of electronic music work, you really should ALREADY HAVE this on hand, and the knowledge of how to use it.
But we're going to presume that you don't know how it works. So here's how to use DeOxit:
Put little aimer tube on the nozzle.
Aim tube into an opening in a pot that's being difficult.
Spritz a TINY BIT into the pot.
Exercise the pot for 15-20 seconds.
If there are still issues, repeat.
If you're using anything with analog controls, you will find yourself doing this A LOT. Learn how now! You're using equipment that, by its very nature, is prone to develop scratchy pots and the like, and if you don't know how to clean these, you'll either be doing a lot of scratchy-sounding stuff...or if you can't bring yourself to do this, then perhaps you should try building a synthesizer out of sticks, rocks, and other objects that don't require routine maintenance by the user.
Lugia: Ha, ha, LOL! Okay what I am going to tell you now you most likely even less believe than my previous (first) explanation to Troux. But all right: Let's start with the costs, it's about twenty bucks a year, cheap right?! The good news is, you can get that "what I am on" here on earth, no hyper-space travel needed. I guess you now want to know where to get it, right? ;-)
Oh, THAT! That's easy enough here...and LEGAL, too! ;-)
It's this forum, Unicorn account at Euro 20/year (but even without Unicorn it works pretty good) and that's all you really need and you guys as patience listeners ;-)
Oh, THAT...and not THAT! OK...yep, MG does work great w/o the Unicorn, but the rack limits are a bit of a hassle if you're doing a lot of builds, doing bigger builds, etc. However, for those exploring, the basic freebie account is BEYOND an excellent asset! MG, even without the ongoing perpetual "clinic" that the forum offers, has likely saved synthesists many thousands of $$$ by letting them entertain ideas without resorting to hardware.
Here's the acid test for legibility of panels:
If you take the module in question into a room that's lighted like you'd find onstage in a basic gig situation and you can't figure out what the HELL is going on with the panel markings, then you probably need to find a module of that sort from a manufacturer who understands more about what working musicians need than they have this compulsion to do snazzy designs that fail under those working conditions. If you have any of those newfangled app-controlled colored LED bulbs, just drop your lighting to about 25% of normal, then change the color to a deep red and/or a deep blue. If you CANNOT read the markings legibly enough to make patching and control decisions at the pace your music requires, then you probably need a different module for that function.
One note about subjective analysis of your own work: you are, inevitably, the worst critic of your own work. If something seems "too long", it's probably not long enough. Too "bright"? Try increasing the bright-ish controls. And so on.
Never second-guess in the lesser direction in what you create unless something's GLARINGLY wrong. Otherwise, just push the HELL out of that envelope...go as far as you can. This is how you discover what you're creatively capable of...and how what you create becomes clearly yours. And you're far less likely to be pegged for "lifting" someone else's style.
I gave the Iridium a look-over. It's nice...gives you the Quantum engine, etc in a desktop package, and it's cheaper. If you've got a good controller already, or just want to drive it from a DAW, it's not a bad choice. The other desktop Waldorf did recently, though...the Kyra...is REALLY interesting, but my concerns with it are that while it may have 1,000+ oscillators, there's no factory editor that allows you to get under the Kyra's hood, so to speak. And from what I can tell, there's only one third-party trying like hell to sort that out...and even THEY don't have a full-on functional version. Damn shame, really, but it's not the first time Waldorf's created an "orphan" synth.
If there WAS a fully-featured Kyra editor, though, I'd say to get THAT synth. FPGA arrays are super-potent...but they NEED a good UI front end that's way more capable than just the OEM front panel itself.
Little update here on the Nobsound passive 4-1 mixers...I got some email back from Nobsound, and while I didn't get any feedback on whether or not these can pass DC, the designer says that these LOVE higher voltages...you can safely pump 10VRMS thru 'em and they'll be happy as a clam! So at the very least, they'll function admirably as drop-ins for audio paths.
Harvestman stuff is...just not right! I love it...if you want "normal", it can do that, but where these shine is on utterly bats**t racket generation. Modules like the Zorlon Cannon, Tyme Sefari, etc are optimized for sonic wreckage. But it's also worth noting that Harvestman was on the Polivoks tip before most everyone else, plus they had one of the first Euro MS-20 interfaces out there.
Only thing I don't like is that new, nondescript name. C'mon...we ALL know this stuff as The Harvestman, and it got its deserved sonic notoriety under that name. Change it back...the old name sounded odd, was memorable, and had a few hints of eldritch bad craziness ala "The Secret of Harvest Home", "The Wicker Man" (albeit NOT Nick Cage's hilarious version!), etc to it.
I'd have to say that you've already managed to paint yourself into a corner. Even if you piled utility module after utility module into that tile row, you'd STILL be screwed. Don't rely on that space to hold ALL of the various utility modules that this build is demanding already...because it can't. Honestly, go back to the 3 row version...you can cram more function into a 3U row than a 1U one. Tiles are really more like "convenience" devices...they're nice, but they're also not a real replacement for fullsized modules, except for basic functions.
Also, modulation sources...well, there's a Maths and a Stages. That's a good START, but if you look at how much modulation the rest of the build really needs to make it do what it can do, you're not even close. Either add more modulation, or back down on the "Sexy" modules.
And one other point: basing the practical operation of your build on a certain aesthetic is, invariably, a huge mistake. The Instruo modules sure do look great, I'll admit...but once you've got the music made with them cut and mixed, no one's going to give a rat's about what your rig looks like. This is leading you down the wrong track, both functionally and fiscally. Instead of going with these expensive-as-hell choices in ALL cases, consider alternatives. You will probably find that you can shave a lot of the costs on this WAY down, and you're also apt to find modules that work as well or BETTER than these spendy things. Put some more time into this, preferably by clearing the decks on this build and starting from the very basics above. Trust me, you'll wind up in a better space than where this is headed right now.
Populus postulo aliquis modus stabilimenta. Feh. JUST GET A CAN OF DEOXIT AND CLEAN THE EFFING POTS!!!! LIKE ANYONE ELSE HERE WOULD DO!!!!
+1 on farkas's comments above, plus consider: if it's difficult enough to do a single build function in a 1-row build, you shouldn't even THINK of trying to jam a second function in there.
Stop now. Back up a bit and do TWO different 1-row builds...one is the monophonic voice itself and the other is the electric bass FX chain. This time, also, consider your space carefully and, if you can jam in modules that have multiple functions (ie: instead of one ADSR EG in 8 hp, jam TWO in via a Doepfer A-140-2. Or have two AD EGs with their own VCAs with an A-142-2...that sort of idea), do so. Make ABSOLUTELY SURE that you're optimizing space vs functions like that when working small!
Then once you have them all sorted and optimal...mash 'em together. Obviously, this'll require a bigger case, for starters...but moreso, you can start to identify redundancies, eliminate those, and add MORE NEW functions that both signal paths can share.
One caveat about the audio input: definitely get something with an envelope follower. Bass is pretty expressive, and with an envelope follower, you can output voltages based on incoming amplitude and, if you want a real "peeeeoww"-type hit when you pop strings hard, that'll be the thing that gets it out of the VCF for you. Doepfer's A-119 is something of a workhorse module for this exact reason.
And, of course, VCV Rack is super-recommended as a way to wrap your head around the whats and hows of modular before dropping big buxx on hardware: https://vcvrack.com
Garfield...whatever you're on, let me know where to get it and how much it is! ;-D
Yeah, the MS-20 reREissue with the goofy colors for twice-plus the cost of the electronically-identical Mini is another one of those "Korg's lost their damn minds" indicators I think I mentioned. WHY DO THIS!? My two Minis sound and behave exactly like the MS-20's original version did out of the box back in 1980. True, some people do bitch and moan about how the Mini doesn't sound like an original-build MS-20...but that original one's had 35-40 years of age on it, and electronic components DO age. But if you had a chance to pull one out of the box and styrofoam back in the day and compare what THAT was like to the Mini...no diff, really.
I'd have to say that their peak achievements were the Volca Modular, and the 'Logues before the revisions. After that, Korg started heading off into "bats**t insane" territory. They WERE really kickin' for a while, but at this point a lot of what they're up to is strange and seemingly pointless. I won't touch another new Korg product at this point until
1) the synth community gets either an explanation or an apology from Korg for the KARP 2600 FS fiasco, AND
2) whoever is coming up with these marketing strategies there gets handed their walking papers, AND
3) put that effin' 2600 out so EVERYONE can have one. Or at this point, everyone who doesn't bop out and get Uli's version. For cheaper. A lot cheaper. As in "actually competing with Behringer cheaper", because if they don't answer that call NOW, they stand poised to lose both sales and cred. I mean...c'mon, we don't NEED that stamped out of pasteboard "road case", Korg, just GIVE US WHAT YOU TEASED FOR YEARS!
Is there a quick or easy way to check on the Argon8 itself to check the firmware version?
Kind regards, Garfield.
-- GarfieldModular
Yep...get into the Settings menu, then go to Settings-General, and you'll find the firmware indication.
And yes, DO read the V.2 manual first! https://www.modalelectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/argon8_MANUAL_v2.pdf (there should be underscores before and after MANUAL, fyi...but the forum had other ideas). This has a lot of updates from the V.1 firmware, and there's some interesting things there. The synth LOOKS really basic...but the fact is, there's some major horsepower under the hood on this thing, and it's pretty easy to access. And one of the biggest 2.0 changes was the addition of MPE capability...so if you have an MPE controller on hand, this effectively kicks one of the Hydrasynth's bigger draws to the curb. No ribbon still...but hey, that'll just take a little more ingenuity to work around...for now.
Garfield: if you can locate one at a dealer that has the latest firmware revision, that's the one to check out. Plenty of neat surprises in there...
Yeah, I agree. But you're NOT the Internet Police. If there's a dispute with a user here over a transaction from the forum, take that to the MODERATORS. That's why they're here.
Yep...that statement has everything to do with the pricing on the Cwejman stuff. If I'm going to drop $800-ish on a Eurorack filter, it needs to do EVERYTHING...up to and potentially including making coffee and kissing me in the morning. These are prices that I would associate with the expensive end of the West Coast, like Buchla, original Serge, etc. Not Eurorack.
Sure, there ARE some Eurorack modules that cost piles 'n' piles, but they're usually things like the Sinfonion, which are super-complex and pretty unique. But the RES-4 is so akin to the Jurgen Haible resonator...which tends to go for a lot less when you find it...that I think that dropping that much is a mistake. It's sort of like buying a Rolls-Royce: sure, it's expensive...but just like any other car, its value drops by 1/3rd when those tires hit the street for the first time.
Still a smart addition. Even without a sequencer to pair the switch with, there's loads of possible uses for a 4 x 1 steppable switch in this. Bouncing between Kermit outputs, f'rinstance...
The Argon8? Lots of things...
1) Form factor. This thing's only about the general size of a Roland SH-101, but it's way more potent. Makes it a live MUST.
2) The rev.2 firmware. There's a few interesting surprises in there that really let you dive into the wavetable architecture, and more besides. Still exploring that...
3) Not as gimmicky. One screen for the UI, which is ultimately less distracting. Of course, this means that you lose the ribbon and the poly aftertouch, but I already have a fine old CS-80 for satisfying that itch. Or there's also the CME Xkey25 here, which is part of my multitrack DAW rig. And it's worth noting that the Hydrasynth's poly aftertouch feel was rather different from the CS-80, which I consider the "gold standard" for that, and that was offputting.
4) Modal apparently doesn't have total a-holes working as their regional reps. Also, requests for information from Modal don't result in "thank you for interesting in our suplime product of musical"-type form emails which convey less than zero info, which then necessitate further inquiries that wind up triggering one of the aforementioned a-holes.
5) I actually feel like the Modal does a better job at being closer to a pure wavetable machine than the Hydrasynth, and some of that is clearly due to a smarter UI. It's simple...just like the good ol' PPG Wave 2.3 I had was, and makes a nice complement to the Sledge 2.0, which is also VERY PPGish but...different.
And the clincher...6) It can take a dive to the floor from about 3 1/2 feet up and not only still work, but look as if nothing happened to it at all. Had a bit of an accident while reconfiguring the Jaspers vs Ultimate frankenstand, didn't faze the Argon8 one bit! To say the least, I'm impressed.
The Argon8 does require a good bit of getting used to, true. But so does the Hydrasynth. I'd just prefer to vote with my money as to what I'm willing to put up with out of a manufacturer, and Modal gets that.
Do WE need to hear this? This appears to be an issue between you and someone you dealt with, and nothing beyond that. Leave the rest of us OUT of this!
You mentioned: "Uli has (I can't believe I'm actually SAYING this) EVERY RIGHT..."
Ha, ha
I also can't believe you are saying that, knowing you are usually quite critical about Uli's stuff ;-) But fair enough, if indeed Behringer's 2600 is in real as good as it looks (from video's etcetera) then I look forward to buying and using one!
-- GarfieldModular
Actually, I'm hard on most anything that crosses my path. I don't have the time or money to screw around with screwy companies. This is also why you don't see a Hydrasynth in my studio, but you DO find a Modal Argon8 instead. Act like a lunatic in response to a perfectly legit question about upcoming supply, and you're gonna lose me...and ASM's rep did just that. Very crazy, very dumb.
The thing that started changing my opinion about B's stuff was probably the Pro-1. Before I opted to get one, I'd heard from a colleague that Dan Bell (the legendary Detroit techno producer, and a Pro-One fanatic from way back) had A-Bed one against the real thing...and found NO difference in sound quality and performance. Now, yes, it uses the reissued Curtis chips, which would make it really difficult to screw that design up...but even I was rather impressed with the Pro-1 when it arrived. Build was good (NOT something I would've expected from B. given some of their past junk), and the sound was immediately recognizable when I dialed in some fave settings.
When the B.2600 arrives, I won't buy mine right off, even though I'm in line for a unit from the first batch at Sweetwater. Instead, I'll actually take a day and GO TO Sweetwater and sit down with it and then give it a real thrashing! If it performs like the synth that I learned modular synthesis on at the very beginning, then it'll be going home with me. Otherwise not.
Oh, and this doesn't let Uli off on his shitty behavior (don't think I've forgotten the Trump-grade slurry BS of the "KIRN" synth...how's that brown shirt collection goin', Mr. Ear?) and his long past of thumbing his nose at intellectual property laws and rights. Those are definite MINUSES in my book. But as long as Uli fucks off somewhere else in his giant Shenzhen factory and lets more sensible heads run the show, hopefully we'll see more "on-track" behavior and less of...well, what made Behringer Behringer in the first place in the eyes of a lot of people, myself included.
I don't understand why someone just rated it with one star - an explanation would be nice.
-- airic
Internet-itis. A weird motor control issue that afflicts certain users who feel a compulsion to click on lots of crap they don't know anything about. Ignore 'em.
Well, that's certainly a pile of modules. But that's ALL it is. You're missing things that can make this build stand up and howl, such as attenuverters, submixers, logic and other clock modulators, and so on. There's also a lot of audio sources and modifiers, but the modulation sources are pretty lacking. And WHY are you taking up 8 hp in a small build like this with a BUTTON? Put something useful in that space!
Also, that's the wrong sort of input module for external signal processing...it's JUST a preamp. You need something with an envelope follower to really make that work optimally, so that you can do things like opening/closing filters with your volume level, etc. And two Distings? If you have a problem with menu-diving, especially on a minimal-feedback UI, you're really going to regret that. I like the idea behind the Disting, but I think the implementation is cryptic and crummy...not anywhere as immediate as you'd expect from a modular synth.
One more thing: if you're all about the DIY thing, DON'T build your tile row for Intellijel spacing! You'll find a much better selection of tile modules, including a pile of DIY ones, if you stick with the "original" 1U row spacing.
This is why, when I did my "classical training" in theory/comp (which was a bit looser than hardass conservatory definitions of this, mainly because where I did my undergrad was far more open to things other than the typical "serious music" and what that entails), I thought it was CRITICAL to get some audio engineering under my belt, in addition to my required electronic music coursework. These sorts of things aren't what I'd view as "electives" anymore; composers in this century need to know how to work with this technology, given what's been replaced by it. F'rinstance, I haven't scored anything with a pen since the mid-1990s...using scoring suites is so much better, plus I can check my work instantly; previously, doing a playthru check would entail sticking paper in front of a bunch of players who'd probably not looked at their parts until that very minute...in short, a real nuisance! Composers these days ignore tech, popular musical forms, etc at their peril!
Could you explain what you've tried thus far? There's a few ways to use these, but unless we can see what you've tried already, we could wind up rehashing things you've done already. Or, conversely, if you HAVE done this right and still don't get a proper result, that could indicate a fault with the module or whatever you're using to get a clock from the PC to the sequencer.
Neither of those. Try this on instead: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/percussa-mssp
the Mixsequencer is comeing! it is one of the more interesting modules that are comeing in the 2500 series !
-- musiqueconcretelover
Oh, HELL yes! That one module has a lot to do with the 2500 sound; in a way, it's very much the antecedent of recent modules such as Intellijel's (discontinued) Linix or Mutable's Frames. But it has quirks that those don't have...and hopefully, if AMsynths was true to form on the redesign, those will still be in there.
But a 2500 clone without the Mixsequencer? That'd be like having a Minimoog with no LPF!
https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/new-products
Oh, lookit this! Amplified Parts is a DIY and parts supplier here in the USA, and recently, they've added product lines for Eurorack stuff in addition to a plethora of DIYer fun. But in this latest round of new additions...well, just LOOK! Not only do they have the Spin FV-1 in stock now, if you look further down...yep, the SSM clones!
Now, for those of you who don't know, Solid State Music was a 1970s-80s firm that, similar to Curtis Electromusic, created an iconic synth chipset. The lushness of those early Prophet-5s? You can thank SSM for that...but when they went under, that only left CEM...and even they left the market for a space. But recently, the CEM circuits were revived and now they're easy to get. As for the SSM set, that was elusive, and people had to rely on NOS supplies until Sound Semiconductor revived it.
And now, Amplified Parts carries these in an ample supply. But the REAL fun is the price! The NOS stuff was getting psycho-spendy...but now you can have that SSM 2044 VCF smoooooooothness for only...
...hang onto your brain...
$6.50!
Pretty jazzy...now, hopefully we'll start to see a lot more DIY activity using this chipset too! Sure, the SSI versions have been around for a little while now, but this makes 'em SUPER easy to get...and they even do bulk pricing! No reason to risk an expensive-as-hell NOS SSM chip now!
farkas: Read that...quite interesting. Takahashi-san almost seems to be of a split mindset about the general direction of electronic instruments. On one hand, he's worked with Polyend to develop amazing new things there. But on the other, he also seems to understand the gravity of keeping older synths, and reissues of them, out of reach of the general public, and how this can be a problem.
His statements about Korg itself, though...also a bit telling. He mentions how Korg is able to take risks...and also, how Korg is a family-run firm that keeps a foot in tradition. That's a bit of a dichotomy, and it makes me wonder what he'd say OFF the record about Korg. This pretty much confirms my suspicions about Korg, actually...it's felt like there's been quite a bit of infighting there in recent years over the company's direction, with very forward-thinking ideas (the Volcas, for example) sitting side-by-side with some pretty egregious f**kups (the KR55 reissue comes to mind...an excellent redux with one GLARING flaw that's doomed it: no sync I/O, and this from a firm that WAS fastidious about having clock sync on most anything).
I don't think we're going to see the end of this mess anytime soon. And the fact remains that Korg angered the HELL out of many people with the KARP 2600 FS stunt; my sales guy at Sweetwater, for example, said that there's been a firestorm of interest in B.'s 2600, and many have mentioned that they'd felt screwed-over by Korg's "Ain't it neat? But you can't have one!" crap. Korg may have actually lit a fuse on the powderkeg they're sitting on with how that was handled, and Uli has (I can't believe I'm actually SAYING this) EVERY RIGHT to burn Korg to the ground with their version, IMHO. If a company makes such a massive miscalculation as Korg did with the not-really-a-reissue, they deserve whatever happens to them next!
Right...take the release of the Wavestate. OK, it's cool and all...but at the same Winter NAMM they were touting that, they ALSO had an algorithmic FM polysynth that, from what I saw, fixed the obtuse user interface issues that have long plagued FM synths. Did they put that out? No...they put out the Wavestate, which is a retread of their older Wavestations, of which there's buttloads on the used (and NOS new) market.
So instead of doing something that would be welcome, and also something that synthesists would fall all over themselves to get, they opted for rehashing old turf. That's not just annoying, it's also fiscally irresponsible. But it's just another bag of trash on what seems like it might be a bit of a dumpster fire over in Hamamatsu as far as Korg's concerned, I suppose.
Nope. Not the same instrument at all. Although I'm in line for the initial shipment to Sweetwater at this point, having both a 2600 and 2500 side by side at one point was really revealing. The 2600 works like pretty much any other patchable from this period (such as the EML 101) and was designed to take on the Minimoog. Very straightforward architecture...3 VCOs, LP VCF, etc.
The 2500, though...that thing is the "OG 0-Coast". It has filters...AND LPGs in the form of the Filtamp. Then there's that Mixsequencer...sheer brilliance, and key to a lot of the 2500's mojo. And on and on with the divergent architecture, which was presumably to position it as the "Moog alternative", but which also made it pretty unique...there's not really been a lot of stuff since it came out that replicates what a 2500 can pull off. Plus, the matrix switch setup, though buggy and prone to crosstalk if you didn't keep the contacts in the sliders clean, allowed routings that were simply not capable on anything at the time; it would be a few years later, when Serge Tcherepnin cooked up his system, that you had that same "route it to everything" sort of capability.
There's definitely reasons why those 2500 main and wing cabs go for prices that rival the GDP of some third-world countries on the used market!
Interesting. This is a problem I've also been at work on, but in my case I'm trying to add onto just a Subharmonicon and a DFAM:
In this case, I DID want the quantizer, because it allows me (along with the clocking utilities) to alter curves coming off of either the Maths or Quadrax into scalar voltages. But with this, the two Moog skiffs with the Eurorack modules aren't intended to be capable of creating sound in of themselves...they're "addenda" for the Moogs. Very nice of Moog to cook up that four-tier skiff frame...
Anyway, the two Euro-populated skiffs are pretty mission-specific...upper is mainly for clock manipulation of the DFAM and Subby sequencers, the lower adds extra mod sources + a pair of VCAs for those.
Actually, I find that the early investigations of AI-generated (Open AI Jukebox, specifically) pop by a few vaporwave producers is pretty interesting. For one thing, it eliminates the copyright law worries. But more importantly, it provides a sort of template in which there's certain known factors that appear in the result while, at the same time, it also features loads of uncanny valley-type results that are more difficult to predict. As such, it still acts very much like a "proper musical instrument" since it has its own variants on leaky pads, sticky valves, or a gnat down your throat due to the nature of the process.
As for the "is it artistic" point...well, consider this: an AI algorithm is just as capable of being a "composition" as is a score by Mahler, et al. The architecture is very different...but I was always taught that creating a scored work is very much analogous to writing program code. The "computers" might be different, but the underlying cybernetic process is essentially the same.
Well, if the goal is to replicate an ARP 2500, yeah, much of the synth WOULD be mults! I should note that Uli has issued a couple more 2500 modules, also...but the Mixsequencer is still not among them.
Yup the Arp 2600 and Korg MS20 are staples in synth history.
-- sacguy71
Which is one reason why I really went off the hinge when the truth about the KARP 2600's not-really-availability emerged. It, the MS-20, the Minimoog...ALL of these have what you'd call "performance practices" at this point, playing techniques specific to those individual synths, which means you'd be inclined to treat them as specific instruments and not merely "a synthesizer". I thought it was one of the most short-sighted decisions, and I still think how that was handled was a total botch-job. That's why, at this point in time, I'm NOT buying anything else by Korg. They're behaving weirdly...going from the zenith of the Odyssey, the MS-20 Mini, and the Volcas to this fiasco, the chronic issues that the Prologue had, reissuing the MS-20 in several Uli-esque colors for over twice the price of the still-available (and basically identical) Mini, and the retconned "improved" Minilogue XD, etc. That's not a good developmental arc.
More like six, actually...
A big part of the problem is that it's not branded, so these wind up in the "Other/Unknown" column...and when that happens, users tend to avoid checking for duplicates because "Other/Unknown" is simply HUGE. However, a couple of things do help here...one is the "duplicate alert" that pops up when creating a listing, and which users posting modules need to pay attention to so that this sort of thing can be avoided. The other thing is that posters need to use that word search function in the module searches. It works...otherwise I wouldn't have known about the other three dupes here.
You should probably worry more about whether this build is playable first. Technically, there's NO VCAs in here (save for the Optomix's gates, which are only sort of that, and which WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY on CV or mod signals). And all of those 2hp modules jammed together aren't going to be fun to work with. Very serious "Sexy Module Syndrome" at play in here. Worry about the power loading LATER; there's far more problems with the whole thing in general!
Hah? No Cluster? "Zuckerzeit" rocks my shiznit 299%!!!! And it was very much part of the proto-techno intake by the Belleville Three...tracks such as "Caramel", "Heisse Lippen" and "Rotor" are very much part of techno's DNA!
I've always thought that every home should have an ARP 2600, frankly...standard gear, like a fridge, stove, toilet, etc. Thankfully, SOMEONE agreed with that who doesn't work for Korg! But yeah, 2600s make for magnificent "system cores", aside of the fact that they may well be the best thought-out teaching synth in history, PERIOD.
First off, be VERY careful about your current loading if you intend to only use one uZeus. This size of build can easily get into the zone where a single supply like that can be very inadequate, and it might've made more sense to calculate the build first, THEN settle on power options based on your needed current load. At least with uZeuses, it's not quite so disastrous to add a second one, although it burns 4 hp that could've been saved for functionality.
And about 2 and 3 hp (and really jammed 4 hp) modules...they're great for things you don't have to/need to tweak a lot. But if you're talking about things such as VCFs, VCOs, etc etc, these can be a huge PITA unless you've got fingers like chopsticks. And another point to consider: they cost more, even if the price seems to be comparable with other, larger modules. The reason for this is because, if you calculate the hp vs cost on them, you get some alarming numbers. For example, the 2hp MMF: this goes for $119. Now, this might seem like a bargain. Compared to something like Doepfer's A-121-2 at $160, this would be a good inference...but it's wrong, because you're not taking into account the cost to fill spaces.
Huh? OK...take the cost of your cab + the power hardware, then divide that by the number of hp in the cab. That result is the cost per hp of your cab. The closer you can aim your build's module costs to that will mean you're coming in at a more economical result. Now, let's do the same for both of those filters...
2 hp MMF = approx $60/hp
Doepfer A-121-2 = $20
So, this adds up. Eventually, it makes the difference between the same cab coming in at $5k versus $15k or something equally hideous. Slim modules make for good slot-fillers, to be sure...but I wouldn't build a system (or a subsystem either) solely with them, despite what Erica did in that respect.
Anyway, couple of other things: you can lose the buffered mult, for starters, unless you feel a need to try and cram four or more VCOs into that cab. And even then, I'd still question the need for it if you're using VCOs that have good input buffering. Small builds like this probably shouldn't be taking up function space with mults...use the inline variety or stackcables instead.
Second, when using the bigger modules, there's something of an INVERSE to that cost-per-hp thing. Take the Erica Black VCA you've got...it's $185. That means 1 VCA = $185 there, and that VCA has two CV ins, variable curving, and the rest is the usual stuff. Now, an Intellijel Quad VCA costs $189, is 2 hp bigger, and you lose the 2nd CV but gain a boost function for low-level signals AND a breakable mixing function, but everything else is pretty much what you'd expect in a VCA. But THESE VCAs only cost $47.25 each! And you get a 4-in MIXER to boot! Soooooooooo...
OK, yes, "why do they make modules like that Erica VCA, then?". Simple...some people DO have the space for 1:1 function:module situations, or there are users trying to make specific bespoke builds for a certain purpose. But in a small general purpose build, there should be NO reasons for using modules of this sort. Unless a module has a VERY SPECIFIC FUNCTION, it's definitely NOT a good idea to put 1:1 modules into a small build. If anything, you need to increase the functional density per module, NOT reduce them! Besides, using 1:1 for VCAs is a great way to paint yourself into a corner with a paucity of those essential modules.
...and speaking of essential modules...utilities. I don't see any. I don't even see any in that pile of 2hp modules. No attenuverters, no secondary mixers, no clock modifiers save for one lone Boolean 2 hp, no, no, no. Sure, they're not snazzy...but just try and program a modular synth WITHOUT them! If you haven't ripped all your hair out over the span of an hour or so out of sheer frustration, consider yourself lucky!
I really, really, REALLY hope you didn't get this cab already. This process doesn't appear to be anywhere close to where I'd suggest that someone jump on to hardware and $$$. Some of the danger shows in that last paragraph...
"...I really like what I've seen in videos on YouTube..."
YouTube is a mixed bag. There ARE a few creators who do a good job at demonstrating SINGLE MODULE FUNCTIONS (which are the demos you SHOULD be watching!!!), and then there seems to be a raftload of people who manage to look good on camera while holding up a Eurorack module like any other typical prop in their set-piece studios. Avoid those latter videos; invariably, they do things in their vids which look AWWSUM...but which wind up showing you absolutely ZERO about module function, interconnection with other modules, etc. If you click on a "module demo" and see a huuuuuuuuge cab bristling with patchcords with the module in question semi-buried in amongst that...AVOID. Like the plague, in fact! Instead, you want the VERY BORING module reviews where there's NOT a maze of wires, NOT a patch where you can't clearly hear the module at work, etc. They might be dull as dishwater, but you'll wind up knowing how that module can work for you if its explained effectively. But by following the really glitzy advice source, you risk running headlong into the unwanted "Sexy Module Syndrome" zone, where you've built up a kewl-lookin' box of lights and knobs and wires and etc etc...that can't make a sound that's any better than an Arturia Microbrute, but which costs MANY times more!
