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@Lugia -- listening to some SPX90 demo clips.
https://www.vintagedigital.com.au/yamaha-spx90-multi-effects-processor/
You're not selling one are you?
-- the-erc

Oh, HELL no! I've got two at present, and my lab gear rig also has its guitar cousin, the SPX50D. I've been totally nuts over the SPX90 sound ever since they came out and caught everyone's attention in Nashville. That lower bitrate actually works in here, adds a little bit of "grit" that ups the character, especially on the reverb algorithms. But if you can't turn up one, here's some substitutes:

Korg DRV2000 (more or less Korg's answer to the SPX90; I also have two of these, one of them in the lab gear rig as well)
Ibanez SDR1000 (actually made for Ibanez by Sony, hence the lettering: "Sony Digital Reverb"...also has full stereo signal path!)
Boss SE50/SE70 (little halfrack thing...KILLER capabilities, plus there's a VOCODER hiding in it! The 70 is a bit cleaner, fyi)

None of these should cost more than US$ 150, tbh...

Oh, yeah...NO argument with those Pitt cabs! Their arrangement with Monorocket has yielded some AMAZING fruit!

There's nothing wrong with the Hydrasynth's keyboard that I know of. But then, "that I know of"...which is important because the reason I don't have one is because I had a particularly nasty encounter with one of ASM's US reps when I dared to ask when I could expect to get the one I'd paid for at Sweetwater three months previous. I immediately changed my order there to an Argon8 after that; I'm NOT going to deal with companies that have Type-A asshats as their user base contacts! I did get to futz with one some time back and I thought the keyboard feel was nice, but I still missed the CS-80's weighting and tab controls to mess with the keyboard response on the fly. Even so, I'd pulled the trigger on one...only to have to go and catch that bullet myself after dealing with ASM and re-aim it toward Modal (who, I should note, DO know how to behave themselves, answer user questions, and the like).

The only thing worse than having a bad implementation of some feature is having to deal with a company that offers you the "experience" of getting verbally punched in the face. I don't give a flying about how amazing the Hydrasynth is, therefore...I'd rather deal with a company that doesn't match their customers up with dysfunctional, screechy people after having dealt with people who have no idea what you're talking about due to the language barriers.

Also, you'll find these stompboxes on Amazon and Reverb. This might also be a suitable solution. Just keep in mind that if/when you see prices exceeding $50 for any Cuvave pedal, you'll get ripped off if you pull the trigger on those...since the normal prices for these are in the $25-40 range. Don't get snaked by the clipjoints!

Yep, an RTL-SDR dongle is very much on the "need to implement" list here, but I want some way to address the SDR software via Ableton FIRST. Two ways come to mind...

1) Build an SDR demodulator into a VST. Basically, a stripped-down implementation of typical SDR software, but missing some of the more typical bells-n-whistles in favor of having direct connectivity to the DAW. Or...

2) M4L object that's been programmed to address an existing SDR software package from inside Live.

I don't know of either of these existing at present. Which, frankly, is a bit surprising...

EDIT: Oh, as for shortwave antennas that DON'T span your entire yard (which I have, but then...de WX9T, so...yeah), I suggest a WIRE VERTICAL!

What you need is as follows: wire (duh!), one of those steel screw-in yard stakes for large dogs, a couple of egg insulators, a screw-in hook, eyebolt or some other top support, solder, and something to solder with (I use a cigar torch lighter when out in the yard...works like the blowtorch it really is!). You can also add a matching balun, but since the frequency use will be all over the map, that's not apt to be that useful all the time.

So...right outside a window or something else you can get a wire out of, screw the pet stake into the ground. Then attach a loop of wire to the top of the stake with an egg insulator at the end. This is your bottom anchor. Once that's in place, get up higher from this (about two stories is all you need, but longer is better...typical for a lot of things, really) and attach the hook to something. Put another loop and insulator on that, then attach the long length of wire that serves as the antenna itself to the other side of the egg. Drop the long wire from there, then go back down to the base. Tension, then attach the antenna wire to the base egg by wrapping the wire back onto itself and soldering the twist. Oh, yeah...do that at the top, too, if you can manage it.

Now, run two wires from the radio or whatever to the base of the antenna. One of these should be the ground, and this is what you'll attach to the metal pet stake. Solder this to the ring that you'd attach a leash to, then solder the other wire to the bottom of the antenna wire itself. Connect this wire to the ANTENNA terminal or whatever you use to get a signal into your receiver. And that's IT. Takes up about a square foot of space, but performs like it occupies 50+ feet. I used one for quite some time with my Icom 731S (Japanese-market 10W version of the Icom 735 amateur transceiver...I like a challenge!) and managed to work about 30 states and two provinces with that and only 10 watts of phone signal. The key is in the vertical element...it has a very low "angle of incident" (also the title of a very insane Van der Graaf Generator track), so distant signals come in better. And also, this won't work as well if you try it upside-down...that feedpoint MUST be at ground level.

Anyway, this is a solution for anyone who's got a tiny yard or has to deal with HOA types who also want to use a shortwave receiver in their work, or for those using the Evaton RF Nomad, the receiver in the Koma Field Kit, etc.

EDITED Nov 24th 2020, 03:12

Sounds like a new module idea @Lugia, "press a button and get a random Oblique Strategy" 🤣
-- troux

ONLY if the module draws 2A on the +12 rail. If you're gonna use the Strategies, you should have to sort out a technical problem like that first, to sharpen those brain muscles up!

Actually, since this mod removes the effects module, I would suggest hunting down an outboard unit that will allow you to "stereoize" the mono output. And for that, you can't do much better than hunting down a good ol' Yamaha SPX90. These days, they go for dimes on the dollar on Reverb, eBay, etc, and they have a great, character-filled sound and loads of "abuse potential". You WILL need some way to attenuate the output level, though, as synth-level signals are going to be too hot for the SPX90's front end.

One other thing: move the Malekko MIX 4 so that it's more usable with the Marbles. This way, you can also use four of the Marbles' individual outputs to put together complex composite modulation waveforms. Definitely a bonus, and the MIX 4's DC-coupling allows for that to happen.

This looks like I would have a lot of fun with that rig. One thing I see missing is a row or three of buffered mults.
-- zuggamasta

They're probably not missing. You only need buffered mults if you're splitting out a scalar CV to several VCOs, VCFs, etc, so that you can avoid detuning due to voltage sag, and even there, you can then passively mult the buffered CV signal to two or three destinations. Plus, with the advent of all of the inline passive mults, taking up space in all but the most massive systems for that function simply doesn't make sense.

Problem is, though, that absolutely NO ONE has come out with a poly-aftertouch keyboard that matches the feel and responsiveness of the CS-80's. I've used the Prophecy, and while it's got a lot going on, the keyboard is more like a typical synth. About the only thing that ever matched the CS-80 feel was the similarly-fussy Prophet T8, and that was only if you'd managed to get a "good" one. And there were plenty that came out of Sequential's factory that weren't "good". But as for the Prophecy, its real magic was in all of those extra expression controls; in retrospect, it's a good thing that it WAS only a monosynth, because even if you were playing the keyboard with the right hand, your left hand tended to stay camped out on those controls.

The Oblique Strategies is an INCREDIBLY useful mind-jogger in the studio. I was introduced to them back during my undergrad by the producer Mike Poole, when we were all at MTSU, back in the early 1980s. I definitely recommend having an offline version, though...try here: http://www.rtqe.net/ObliqueStrategies/ I also think I have a VST plug (or M4L object?) on the multitrack machine that allows you to embed them into your workflow for quickie consultations.

We'll see, I suppose. Honestly, if they were to reissue something of theirs from the past, I would hope it would be the Prophecy. No one really "got" this synth when it came out in the mid-1990s except for just a few people. One that I know of found that it was nearly perfect as a controller for their Oberheim Xpander...and given the complexity of the Xpander, that's sayin' something! Its MPE capabilities are off the chain, even for TODAY! But Korg felt it was something of a cross between an experiment and a failure (it was supposed to be a monophonic OASYS, actually...even used the MOSS synthesis implementation), so they retreated to "safe" things after that for a while. The Japanese synth companies are funny like that...when they come out with something that really needs exploration beyond what the company thought it was, they tend to think that these products "failed". The most egregious case of this was Roland's TB-303...failed mainly because Roland kept insisting that it was ONLY a bass synth, and people didn't get what it could REALLY do until 1987 and the release of Mr. Fingers' "Washing Machine". Then, even as the prices of the 303 continued on up toward the ionosphere, they kept proclaiming that "We'll NEVER reissue the TB-303"...

...until they did, in several clunky forms that weren't what people really wanted. And I'm NOT counting the MC-303 here; that device is an abortion of its OWN hideous sort! I don't think it's an issue of just "synth nerds", either; if that were the case, we wouldn't see all those people drooling over the Prophet-5/10 reissues. Players want and need things that work, that make sense, and that have loads of possibilities that require exploration, even 40 years on.

Quantizer sounds like a doable thing, yep...and if this is DIY, check this one out: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/kassutronics-quantizer Looks like trouble...12 user-definable scales, methods for shifting scales as part of a patch, etc.

So...how would you send an inverted envelope to your Sisters VCF?

Oh, snap! No attenuverters! C'mon guys...also, I would suggest some more VCAs be added, since this thing's got ample modulation sources but there's only four VCAs in evidence that can be used for either the audio OR the modulation/CV level control.

Now, while it might be possible to take this to a two-voice paraphonic system in a space of 2 x 84, this would work loads better in a 2 x 104. Something like a Mantis might be a better pick here. With the extra space, also, you can easily add some attenuverters, a bit of logic to screw with your timing, and make two PROPER voices with two VCOs each, their own VCFs and VCAs, summing down to a proper stereo mixer. And if you were to go with an Intellijel 7U x 104, you'd then have the tile row for some of your basic functions, such as audio I/O, MIDI interfacing, etc. That's what I would recommend, tbh.

Hey, no prob...info unshared is useless to everyone! BTW, another really odd Chinese pedal that the synth crowd might like is the Aural Dream Breath Delay. This simply looks like a basic ol' analog delay...but then, there's that "NO - GH" toggle switch and what IT does. And what that is is that it puts a sustain on the feedback path of sorts, and the result is that the delay tails stay at an even level and DON'T decay. Used properly (like, with a sequencer-driven line), the effect is just stunning! It's sort of like a Palmer Timepressor, but in the Breath Delay's case the tail compression is fixed. And it's loads cheaper than the Palmer! Aural Dream has a number of very odd stompboxes like that...I also have their Super Ring, sort of a tremolo...until you crank the oscillator in it into audio range and yeeeeeeeOW!

Actually, sacguy was talking about inline mults, not ones in the cab. In a small build like this, you have to optimize your space for maximum functionality (one of the huge reasons why small builds are VERY difficult to get right), and leaving the multiples OUT is one way to recover space. Instead of those, get some of the passive, inline type, such as what you see here: https://www.perfectcircuit.com/eurorack-modular-synths/splitters-hubs.html or some stackcables.

There's only a few reasons to have mult modules: having enough destinations for your pitch CV that you see "voltage sag" that affects tuning and/or scaling (and here, you'd need a BUFFERED mult, not a passive) is one. Another is because the build is large enough to have them without robbing space from functional modules. But beyond those, there's not a lot of solid arguments for them if you simply have a few of the inline ones on hand.

EDITED Nov 23rd 2020, 03:07

Even if you're doing an "aimless" jam, you're still doing some valuable practice. Since we don't necessarily have an electronic equivalent to Rimsky-Korsakov's "Principles of Orchestration", even random screwing around is going to result in some insights about what patches, textures, etc work together, and which don't. And, of course, even screwing around still hones your patching skills, makes the process of knobs-n-wires more intuitive.

Plus, not recording things can also be a mistake, even if it's obvious that the "screwing around" in those cases is just that. But at the same time, if you have the take in your DAW...well, hell, ANYTHING'S fair game once it's on the hard drive. So it doesn't work in of itself...but what if you dubbed a few more things onto it? Or what if you used it as a layer in some other work? Or chopped it into loops? Or, or, or... This is part of the rationale Brian Eno's used for many years...true, it's resulted in a HUGE library of tapes of all sorts that he keeps track of, but if you know what's on them and how to work with those recordings, they're golden. In fact, whole albums of his have come out of this, with the most notable example being "The Shutov Assembly".

Speaking of Dutch bell recordings, I really wish I could find some off the air recordings of various shortwave interval signals. So many of these seem to be disappearing (along with shortwave programming in general). The Dutch one was really striking, too...field recording of a carillon in (I think?) Hilversum. Add the static and fading, and it sounded MAJESTIC!!!

Yep...plus, I've been using the BSPs I've got for five years now. And Korg's just NOW coming out with an answer to it? Again, something's rotten in the Prefecture of Shizuoka...I would've thought they'd have been first with this, frankly, given their experience with the excellent Nano series open-ended controllers. And why do another be-all-end-all workstation like the Nautilus when you've got the Kronos out there already...except to sell "new stuff" to the gullible music public?

Winter NAMM (or whatever's going to serve as it) promises to be interesting this year in the Korg booth...I know that quite a few retailers aren't happy with them right now, and if they continue to make mis-steps, they'll start to find their dealers starting to jump ship, sort of like what happened with them c. 1990 and that period where they kept coming out with the SAME synth over and over and over again!

Yeah...I get the Steve Reich issue, mainly from having studied with Karlheinz Stockhausen right around 9/11. Stocki made this statement that was 100% a self-boobytrap, stating in a presser that he thought that the 9/11 attacks were "...the greatest work of Lucifer's art perpetuated upon mankind".

Self-boobytrap? Yep...because there was a axe-grindy reporter there from the Hamburg (I think) newspaper who quoted all of that EXCEPT the mention of Lucifer. Still a quote, if you're willing to go with the definition of "that came out of Karlheinz's mouth" alone. As a result, there was a MASSIVE surge of people condeming Stockhausen for "celebrating" the 9/11 attacks as a "greatest work of art". Which, natch, isn't what was said (thankfully, there WAS tape of this fiasco!). But it harmed him, and the reporter got the dig in at Stocki that he was apparently looking for. This did get straightened out...eventually...after it resulted in cancellations of concerts of his work in the USA that had been scheduled for 2001/02.

But yeah, I get it...there are definitely reasons to be skeptical of what figures of this sort are "saying", which might NOT actually be what they said! After all, Steve Reich's not the first people to make off the cuff moronic comments like that; I recall Elvis Costello's nasty, alcohol-fueled comment about Ray Charles while EC was on his berserk and bizarre "Armed Forces" N.Am tour. And yes, he caught a raft of crap for that...rightly so...but then, was it Elvis talking or the booze, tour-strain, etc? Eventually, it turned out that those were the culprit, and not Elvis Costello himself. So you have to take what musicians do/say with a grain of salt about the size of a cattle block sometimes. We're a strange lot.

Oh, yes...I have a nice "library" of stompboxes here. I've made sure to have DC supplies for them by each of the main routing patchbays in here so that I can "drop in" one if I need an extra something-or-another to a certain sound. Sort of like a VST...but hardware.

Love the Mood, btw...one of the best things Chase Bliss does. But there's a lot of CRAZY stuff going on down at the lower end of the price spectrum...there's quite a few Chinese pedals in the arsenal here now, and brands like Biyang, Aural Dream, etc are in there...along with several things from the Noisemasters of Beijing, CUVAVE.

Just get their FUZZ pedal. Seriously. Most anything that Cuvave's designed is somewhat off-kilter and weird, but the Cuvave FUZZ has "future classic" stamped all over it. I kid you not. I have two...and drum signals through these just sound like some sort of hideous industrial cataclysm. I even have a RAT R2DU (the dual rackmount version, original circuit), and the Cuvave can kick that device right to the curb! Before we get into some sort of moron-grade war with the PRC, you guys need to be scoping these Chinese pedals out...some of them are truly AMAZING.

Yeah...if you get the 10 hp Veils 2020, that opens 2 hp more...and what I'd suggest there is to swap out the 2hp Mix with a Doepfer A-138n instead. This opens up the space and makes that source mixer more tweakable when working with a patch. Otherwise, this seems pretty spot-on.

I rebuilt the example above to show how that would work.

EDITED Nov 22nd 2020, 01:31

The SQ-64 doesn't get me all that excited, tbh. It feels more like Korg's playing catch-up to everyone else with it, where there's already a big installed base of Arturia, Polyend, DSI, etc etc sequencers like it out there. And while some reviewers have pointed out that it has more tracks than the Beatstep Pro, that "more" actually amounts to "one", since track 4 on it is a trigger sequencer that only puts out 8 (16 over MIDI) pulse channels. Also, the BSP doesn't involve massive menu diving...and that Korg has one of those ominous, Roland-esque alpha displays on there, implying that it does.

The vibe I get from this is that it likely has something to do with the 2600 mess (three CV tracks, three VCOs...?), as it was intended for release in May of this year, and it would've filled the gap that not having the 1601 Sequencer reissued caused. But whether this indicates that Korg's preparing to drop the "2600 for the 'unconnected' peons" at whatever Winter NAMM 2021's going to look like, or it's just leftovers from that screw-up from 2020, it's hard to say.

Might make a good match for a Behringer 2600, tho!

Plus, the Qx module offers the Quadra functions that didn't make it into the Quadrax, notably the envelope start/end pulses that allow chaining EGs. And even with that, the Quadrax/Qx STILL fits into less space than the Quadra and its expander.

ENVF is difficult to find here in Europe.
-- frankbartoli

Looks pretty easy to me: https://www.planktonelectronics.com/store/envf/

Also, why add another set of inputs when there are these expensive Vermona ones already there? I can think of lots more sensible things to do with another 2 hp, and all that's needed here is JUST the envelope follower. No point in the rest of an Ears being in there.

EDITED Nov 21st 2020, 01:50

I still like the MS-20, frankly. Over the years, I've had four...two were the original version 1, with one of those being bought new back in 1980, and the other two are sitting on the other side of my studio right now, with those being Minis. You hear a lot of hot poop about how the Mini doesn't sound right, etc etc etc...

BUNK! What they sound like is a NEW MS-20, and NOT one that's been sitting around for 40-ish years. You have a lot of "VITNAGE RAR W0W"-types who claim that the Mini doesn't sound like it should. But lemme tell ya, if you went back in a time machine and unboxed a virgin, straight-from-Hamamatsu '20, it would sound EXACTLY like an MS-20 Mini. No lie.

Granted, yes, a proper modular is always better. But there ARE things that the MS-20 can do that modulars CANNOT. For example, that screwy input section that most people ignore. The idea was to offer a pitch-tracked input channel...but like Korg's other contemporary pitch-tracking device (the X-911 "guitar" "synthesizer"), it was utterly useless for that. BUT...that input section is made of pure, uncut ABUSE POTENTIAL, and a certain Mr. Richard James found that if you feed it UNpitched material, such as a TR-606, you make the MS-20 GO BERSERK with just a little bit of patching. If the TB-303 is the "lead" for ACIEED, then the mangly MS-20-processed drums is its complimentary backbeat.

Unfortunately, Korg continues to screw up...I just saw some demos of their new sequencer, and frankly, I thought it was a trainwreck. It might have ample connectivity, but it was obvious to me that certain parts of the sequencer implementation are not as intuitive as they need to be. It was like Korg was trying to either build a Beatstep Pro or a Polyend Seq, and wound up creating both...and yet, neither! Pft.

the-erc's got it, yep. By having a quantizer at the ready, there's a lot of interesting things you can do, such as scale constraint, deriving arpeggi from LFO curves, making more use of the Stages as a sequencer, and the like. It also functions as a useful on-the-fly transposition tool via its BIAS control. And, with a quantizer on hand, there's some glitchy things that becomes doable, sort of along the lines of using the MS-20's input section. By using the quantizer to "mistrack" incoming audio, and then also employing the Plankton ENVF to mess with the VCF in conjunction with that, this has loads of potential for Aphex-ish percussive glitching. Most people tend to associate quantizing with sequencers, but the fact is that they've got tons of abuse potential beyond that.

There's another twisted thing about those two modules: you can send the envelope gen's outputted CVs to the quantizer AND somewhere else...but one of those ENVF outputs is inverted, so this opens up another stage of glitching that the MS-20 cannot do. For example, you can have the quantizer deriving CVs from the inverted envelope, but FM the complex VCO via its modulation oscillator in the OPPOSITE direction. Pitch goes down as chaotic racket increases, and so on. And of course, if there's a sequencer in a future upgrade, the OP's set already.

OK...I had a go at restructuring this:

All of the previous modules are still in there. But the additions are all designed to work with other modules as "units".

For starters, I put a 2 hp quantizer right by the Complex VCO. This will let you use the sequencing function of the Stages with actual pitch data being outputted to the VCO. And I added a 2 hp mixer after the VCO to let you sum different waveforms, adding some more timbral complexity beyond what the Verbos VCO does.

Belgrad, then Veils...two of the Veils VCAs can then easily be used for VCO-VCF levels and for the level off of the VCF to the Frequency Central Stasis Leak. That, I chose because it allows you to send in a mono signal, but get stereo chorusing, reverb, or tap delay. This then makes full use of the stereo output capability. The ENVF is next to this, right by the audio input. This rework also puts ALL of the audio path on the top row for an easier signal flow, moving the modulation, etc down so that these signals "patch upward" to the audio modules above.

Bottom: Pam's, Plog, then there's a dual LFO with a LOT of additional functions, notably sample & hold, noise, and 120 degree phase shift for the LFO outputs so that synced-but-rephased modulation can be done with this. Maths, the dual VCA, then I moved the Qx to the left of the Quadrax so that it's a little easier to "abuse" it and the Maths in tandem by crossrouting start and end (and likely many other) signals between these two. Then a Roti Pola, which is there to screw really hard with four channels of that Ochd octal LFO, by combining, attenuating, repolarizing those signals (and others, potentially) into complex LFO curves for elaborate modulations while still leaving four more outputs free for elsewhere.

Lastly, I rehoused the whole thing in a Doepfer A-100 case, since you'd mentioned that above as being where this should all end up. This still has all of the original modules, therefore...but NOW, all of the support modules are amply present that rip the lid off of them, and bring the whole build up to speed. In fact, note that my additions all have to do with the functionality of OTHER modules...this is how you've got to think when building modular rigs. You WANT complex interoperability and functionality to be present, if you need it...but at the same time, the build needs to be straightforward and performable. I think this nails both.

EDITED Nov 19th 2020, 01:26

I'm so underwhelmed.

I just got an email from Perfect Circuit, saying that one of the RAR KARP 2600 FS UBERKOOL "limited" synths (plus stamped-out-of-dried-jello "road" "case") CAN BE MINE!

Nice. Uhhh...OK, so I needed to allocate space and budget for this about...ah...10 months ago. As in, when it actually came out, it should've been available THEN if Korg wanted my money. Not now. Not after I've completed the purchases for the studio with the sole exception of an ARP 2600...from Behringer. For a lot less. With no worries about availability. Or having to fight for one vs the people who Korg "decided" that should get one. Or a roadcase that makes it "special" while being utterly useless otherwise.

I reiterate: someone (or several someones) over in Hamamatsu needs to be chucked into a padded room and shot full of thorazine. Screw those bastards. I don't like giving Uli my money, but if they're going to step up where Korg massively stumbled, well...

Two modules come to mind...one would be a new offering from G-Storm: their Gyrinx VCF, which is a clone of the Synton Syrinx filter, well known for all sorts of wild modulation capabilities with a filter set that focuses on vocal formants. And the wavefolder...Tiptop's Fold offers a nice wavefolder, dual inputs, and a suboctave generator for massive square-wave bass with its own separate output. Dirt-cheap, too!

TBH, I don't recommend trying to patch with headphones...for the same reason that I don't recommend mixing with headphones. In both cases, the frequency response and the driver proximity are going to cause various alterations to your sound that, once the sound has been routed to a pair of speakers, will become glaringly apparent. The tendency will be to lower the bass and high end when listening to phones...leading to sounds that won't cut and won't pound. Never do this. The ONLY rationale for using headphones with any synthesizer would simply be for practice; never do that when you're playing live thru a PA (unless you need them for a cue send) or in the studio.

As for the build itself...sacguy's on the right track here. I would suggest the addition of an Intellijel Quadrax, also...this gives you four cycle-able two-stage EGs, which means you can loop them to make additional LFOs for modulation purposes. Make sure and add the Qx expander for that, which then allows you access to the start and end pulses for more complex composite curves...and you can still break out an ASR three-stage from this for the VCF and/or the output VCA. Oh, and you can have CV over rise/fall parameters here, too, since the Quadrax has a pile of routing possibilities (it's got a mod matrix hiding in it!). Makes a good match with the Veils! Plus, since the TAI-4 has no envelope followers (boo hiss!), adding one to track your drum machine's volume contour might be very worthwhile (auto-wah? ducking? all need this). Plankton makes a nice 2 hp one (you won't need to tinker with it much once it's set) for a bit under $100.

Oh, and sacguy? Good call on mating the Pam's with the Plog! All sorts of wacky timing possibilities with that pairing...

+1 on Jim's suggestion here. Without the additional utility and supporting modules, this is a nice accumulation of modules...and that's about it. Start with something pre-powered like a Mantis instead of these way-too-small skiffs.

The attenuator switches on the TAI-4 have nothing to do with the sort of attenuators I mentioned. In order to scale or alter CV and/or modulation signals, it's essential to have attenuator modules. Frequently, these also have the ability to repolarize signals...so if you want to send an inverted envelope to your VCF, and the EG has no inverted output, this would be what you needed. These also have mixer-type functions quite often, which then means you can mix different modulation signals to create bespoke composite modulation signals that can be quite complex.

Which gets us to mixers. You don't mix JUST audio signals in a synth. And, accordingly, there's two different types of mixers in modular (and most other) synths. One sort has a linear response, and this is what's needed for signals where scaling is important, such as with CVs and modulation signals. The other type (which you see often at the end of a signal path in a synth) are exponential mixers; since sound's apparent loudness (not signal level, but how WE perceive volume) follows an exponential scale, and these are pretty much solely for audio signal mixing. Plus, there's one other type of "mixer", and those are adders, which mathematically add signals together...so, if you wanted to transpose something up by an octave, you could have your CVs being fed via an adder, then use an offset DC source to add 1V to this...and there's the octave shift.

The 2hp VCA is fine for modulation level control. But since it's a linear VCA, it's not as useful for audio...unless you control it with an exponential-response EG. The real problem, though, is that far more VCAs than two are needed. You need two right off for controlling the output level and for any modulation uses, but since the rest of the synth is still very deficient, you can't see what the necessary VCA complement should be...but let me assure you, it's NOT two.

Stages is an envelope generator, true. But it has a lot more uses, and a lot of users use it as a CV sequencer of sorts. But in order to do that, you would need a proper envelope generator along with the Stages. Plus, envelopes are something that can be sent all over the place (along with LFO signals) to modulate other things; this gets us back into the "this build isn't complete" issue, since a proper build should have a lot more to it. But even with that, the Belgrad and the Verbos complex VCO are modulation-hungry things from square one, so having JUST the Stages isn't sufficient. Some proper AR and/or ADSR (better for filters and output VCAs) generators are sorely needed as well.

But the crux of the problem comes from the simple fact that this build is extremely incomplete. It's NOT a synthesizer yet. It's more akin to an incredibly expensive dub siren at this point. If that works, then fine, but I still believe you should build this out properly, especially after springing for some very expensive modules like you've done here. The difference would be like night and day.

Oh, and FYI...I'm a musician as well. But with 53 years of experience, 42 of which have seen me concentrating on electronics and electroacoustics, I might have a bit more perspective on this sort of thing. After all, they don't let you in the door to study with Stockhausen if you don't know what the hell you're doing...

I know exactly how that explosion in development happened. Originally, electronic music was viewed as a purely academic thing, and the majority of the R&D was being done by/for academic musicians and composers. One example that I can think of is the scanning polyphony method that E-Mu licensed to Sequential for the P5...the initial stab at that was done right across town in Urbana by Jim Beauchamp back in 1964. From that sort of research, it made its way to E-Mu in the early 1970s, was refined further, etc.

But what happened is that the focus for synthesizers changed from academia to pop. When it was obvious where the money was, synth companies changed their developmental paths from the academically-driven aspects to ones that were more aligned with working musicians. The annoying thing, though, is that while some academic studios were able to incorporate new developments alongside the older ones, many hide-bound academic music departments remained hopelessly stuck in their grant-writing cycles. This isn't where you want to be looking for new ideas if the objective is to create instruments for working stiffs, so by the mid-1970s, academia was just about DONE in terms of relevance.

In fact, I can cite a first-hand experience with this. Back during my undergrad, both I and my comp/theory prof "got it"...he was adamant that the future would be software-defined instruments, and I was working on adding relevant tech to the electronic music studio at MTSU (I opted to add a Memorymoog for starters...VERY smart move at that time). So when I got to Illinois and profs and grads were jizzing all over the creation of the hardware-dependent Kyma system...I knew in a flash that this was some VERY loud barking up the wrong tree! And while Symbolic Systems still puts out their DSP farm-reliant Kyma system for thousands and thousands of dollars, any one of us can go and buy an iteration of Arturia's spot-on Synclavier VST (no, really...it's PERFECT now that it has the resynthesis function), load it into the DAW of our choice, and wind up with what's essentially a bespoke Synclav Post-Pro system for a few hundred smackers! Would this have happened if, say, Michael Jackson hadn't made the original Synclav's sound an iconic part of "Thriller"? Probably not!

Starting over would be a good idea at this point. This isn't even functional as a synthesizer. Just like there's not much point in trying to resuscitate someone who drowned 8 hours previously, this isn't close to being at a "fixable" point. Plus, you've bought this stuff...so you've got your initial modules bought already, and this will force how you can build from this point...and that's always a BAD IDEA.

OK, so this build here is missing...

Attenuators
Mixers
A host of modulation sources
Proper envelope generators
Any effects
Sufficient VCAs
Power (unless you're using a powered cab here...at any rate, you can't jam 3U height modules into a 1U tile case)
Sequencing
Random sources/noise
Sample and Hold
Clock generator and modifiers
Logic

...and the modules you DID get are ones that are generally large, so this will force your hand on a proper build. And most notably, a SMALL build...you're not in the range where large modules sit comfortably throughout the entire build. That happens once you start into the range of cabs beyond 2 rows and beyond 104 hp per row. So if you're keeping those expensive modules, you're going to be pushed into a situation where they dictate the build...and NOT YOU. At least, not in ways you want.

This goes for everyone reading this post...and I do mean EVERYONE:

Just because you see some hotshot on YouTube building a small build DOES NOT MEAN that you can do this, too! Invariably, the synthesists doing this are experienced, and they're putting together mission-specific builds...NOT general-purpose synths that fit into 1 x 84 hp (and even that form factor is a PITA to work with). Unless you're trying to do what they're ACTUALLY doing...DON'T DO IT!!!! If you're starting in modular, build a proper all-purpose system FIRST. Leave the tricky stunt builds for LATER...once you've learned everything the general purpose build does!

Also, there's a lot of YouTube synth channels that I don't recommend...EVER. I've seen equipment being misused, false/inaccurate information being passed on, module demos where you can't see the module being demoed due to the patchcords or, very often, the YouTuber's hands, and sometimes just absolute, outright LIES because the YouTuber's doing their gig for the free swag and gear, and NOT as impartial information. YouTube's accurate info really only seems to come from a small handful of YT users, but moreso from the manufacturers themselves...and you SHOULD be watching THOSE. But that'll wind up excluding maybe...hm...at least 2/3rds of what's on the platform, if not significantly more.

If you want to sort this out before another rather expensive mishap, my suggestions would be as follows:

1) Ignore YouTube's various synth guys, for the most part. I would suggest Loopop as being useful, plus Hainbach, Sam Battle's "Look Mum No Computer" channel, Simon the Magpie (especially for interesting, envelope-pushing ideas), and one or two others...aside of the manufacturer clips, of course.

2) Get your info from users in the trenches. MG is a great resource, as are Muff Wiggler and Gearslutz, although some judicious "noise filtering" is necessary there.

3) Get a copy of THIS: https://vcvrack.com/ Get familiar with it. You'll see why almost immediately.

4) Make a zillion prospective builds on MG. Try doing this for a few MONTHS, carefully fine-tuning and critically ripping into builds on your own and with users of the forum here. Don't even THINK about further purchases until you've come up with something that includes what you already have AND which you can intuitively sense is THE build. Believe me, you'll know when that happens.

One last thing to consider: this isn't a video game. You don't get points for nailing your build on the first shot...because NO ONE can nail a build on the first shot. ModularGrid is here so that you have a resource for doing this over and over and over and over and...well, you get the idea. Get things right here...THEN pull out the Magic Plastic. BUT NOT UNTIL THEN!

Yep, that's a very serious overloading issue there. You don't want those indicators doing anything other than being on.

The problem here is that you're trying to run the power supply right up against (and over...we'll get to that) the current limits of those uZeuses. NEVER, EVER do this! First of all, heavy loading on a power supply leads to heat, and heat leads to a bunch of problems, such as component damage in the P/S, excess heat throwing settings and patches off, and potentially module damage if the P/S fails in a few specific ways.

Your rule of thumb with current loading in a synthesizer is to make sure that the P/S (the module's DC bus outputs, not the wallwart or power brick) exceeds the amperage load from the modules by at least 1/4th...if not more (I prefer 1/3rd excess amperage headroom)! This lowers the heat on the supply, which makes it work easier, but it also fixes a very sneaky issue that you've apparently seen first-hand here: inrush loading.

Inrush loading is a simple fact of the physics of introducing power to a circuit. In the first milliseconds at power-up, circuits can draw more than their rated amperage draw, and this inrush can exceed this by quite a bit if the circuit in question contains things such as tubes, major inductors, etc. Sure, it stops doing this in a tiny fraction of a second, but that's enough time to trash a compromised component, and the best way to get THOSE is to keep pushing the P/S too hard! And this is precisely why those uZeus indicators are yelling at you...it's trying to get you to STOP trying to blow it up!

Another way to push things too hard is to take something with a big current draw and stick it in a cab with OTHER things that ALSO have a huge current draw. These often tend to be patchables that fit the Eurorack standard, but which don't belong in a system cab...such as the Subby and the VRL. If those have cabs of their own...USE THEM. Eurorack cabs need to be used for things which DON'T have their own housings and power, because there's a whole lot of those, and it's infinitely easier to have something like a Subharmonicon out of the main cab and in its OEM powered cab than it would to have a few VCO modules or whatever laying loose on your workspace with a flying bus attached. It's also cheaper, since you're not paying TWICE to house and power those devices. You should probably step back, take a deep breath, and rethink what you're doing here. Try and define what the Eurorack cab should be used for in your workflow, your music, etc. What should go in there? What is that system supposed to do? Is this something that you'll change your mind on in a month's time, or are you good with this for a matter of several YEARS time? All of these and more are questions you should be asking before spending any more money WITHOUT a game plan for this...and you DO need to be sorting this out before you wind up damaging equipment or, for that matter, winding up with gear you thought you needed when you potentially DIDN'T need it!

Cool story! Much of my synth background comes from having grown up around music tech in Nashville. That's actually a hotbed of prototype development, because Nashville's studios are sufficiently laid-back that engineers and producers love to screw around with these things. So I got to see and/or use some crazy things, such as...

An ARP-badged Chroma (only 50 of those came out prior to the CBS buyout)
A DX-1
Peabody College's big Moog system (the one Gil Trythall used)
A McLeyvier (no shit! Valley People were a dealer for those!)
A 360 Systems synth that was actually the rebadged Basyn Minstrel (also at Valley People)
A few Vako Orchestrons (mainly because Vako was in Nashville...explaining Kraftwerk's own Music City connection!)
An Alpha Syntauri (I implemented that thing when it was in MTSU's electronic studio, added a Soundchaser later)
Woodland's prototype Jeep Harned pre-MCI archtop fader desk (it was at a different studio by then)
Monument's bespoke Flickinger desk
The prototype 1U version of the Quantech Room Simulator

And several devices that had been cooked up by engineers there. One that I learned much from was Jim Gilmore, who actually built his own desk from scratch in the early 1980s because he couldn't get a desk that would fit his workflow (advertising and voiceover work). Lots of gear was also modified, with Scully decks being prime devices for that. Definitely a very strange environment for a young musician to grow up in!

OK...let's see here...

CP8 = unnecessary. This is simply the power supply, and given that B. is working in Eurorack here, fitting a 1:1 for the CP8 would be pointless...and also, a real space-waste. Just use the B. CP-1A and feel the warm fuzzies that result from saving valuable panel space. Or, better still, if this is being built into B.'s 2 x 140 cabs, just use the onboard P/S.

CP3 = Behringer equivalent would be to pair the CP3A-0 and CP3A-M. This, however, is only a thing if you're opting to use the backside bussing for your control signals; if not, all you'll need is the mixer.

CP2 = No real substitute. The filters of the B. 923 would work here (albeit without the preset detented filter values...which, actually, is an improvement), and the rest of the module you REALLY want nothing to do with, as it's part of the original Moog "S-Trig" setup, and we don't use this because 1) it's Eurorack, and we don't use S-Trig there and 2) S-Trig SUUUUUUUUUUCKS!!!!! If you've ever used a modular Moog, it's the first thing you come to hate on the system, because if you put too much of a load on the S-Trig bus, the lack of input buffering will cause a voltage sag that'll have it triggering randomly and annoyingly. A hangover from the very beginnings of the Moog that almost no one adopted back then because the engineering shortcomings were even glaringly fubar in the 1960s. In fact, compare the Moog 961CP with the B. 961...the arrangement of V-Trig and S-Trig outputs is pretty much reversed, with the Moog having the ability to convert V-Trig to loads of S-Trig outs, and the B. doing the exact opposite, and that really only for a certain degree of "historical accuracy".

993 = Again, this has to do with the bussing system Moog used to "simplify" patching. In this case, it's a way to "backplane" the triggers and envelopes between a pair of EGs and the two VCAs. Not something essential, and in fact it's something potentially confusional. Frankly, the bussing on the expanded IIIc (the 55's predecessor) I've used in the past was something I found really pointless, as I prefer being able to patch ALL of the signals and not rely on "cheats".

EDITED Nov 14th 2020, 23:27

These are another solution...a bit easier to scatter around a build: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ladik-u-081

Haven was a thing quite some years back, but I think these days they're working more in a distribution role, not so much retail. Perfect Circuit and Noisebug seem to have picked up where they left off.

The other point about Detroit Modular is that it IS IN DETROIT. Normally, that would be a "so?" kind of point...but given Detroit's status in electronic music as one of the great origin points of techno, and that there's still piles of producers there...well, that's a really demanding crowd, to say the least. You wouldn't last long (and probably not physically, either...remember: it's DETROIT) if you ran a screw-up electronic instrument shop there!

I keep an eye on that Kosmo format and also the AE system. It's quite an effort to create a new format in the planner, so there must be more than just a few people to use it.
-- modulargrid

Sure...AE's moving right along, though. There's a couple of third-parties working in it now, plus AE collaborated with Dove Audio on the WAVETABLES oscillator. And Noisebug here in the USA just can't keep the Starter systems in stock! They blow out of there VERY rapidly. The other fun thing with it is that there's a HUGE embrace by DIYers...so much so that AE put out a module just for them, the protoboard-breakout BR(AE)DBOARD.

If anything, there's aspects about it that remind me more than a little bit of the FracRac format, which is also heavy on kit and DIY. Frac had a long headstart, though, thanks to Paia's and Blacet's initial efforts.

Also, don't forget that you can use the LPGs as normal, too...and that Chainsaw in the bass range + an LPG = plucky, poppy bass hits. In that case, you'd want to use a short but full envelope out of a channel on the Zadar, but believe me, that sound BANGS.

I do believe I've found the case solution: https://elevatorsound.com/product/damaru-x-elevator-sound-eurorack-modular-travel-case-7u-104hp-70mm-deep-black-w-central-1u-rail/ They have this arrangement in 84, 104, and 126 hp widths. I think they'll also pre-fit the power, as they have a "special order" 126 hp version with power installed. Probably best to drop them a line and see what they can do for you. My suggestion would be to go with the 104 hp at this point, unless you've got an expansion direction already sorted out.

Vactrols are cool...what they are is a sealed package that contains an LED and a photoresistor. So when you hit a vactrol with a +5V trigger pulse, it rises almost immediately...but then it tails off slower. Granted, that's "slower" in terms of milliseconds, but it's just right for feeding a trigger into its control point and a noise source through the filter/VCA combo to get a quick little "snap" in the noise color and with the filtering you want. The Tenderfoot module has three different response settings, also...a more "normal" LPF, a "darker" LPF, and VCA only, and when the vactrol tails off in the filter modes, it also rapidly sweeps the filter closed in addition to killing the audio by closing the VCA. Should result in some really neat "snappy" percussives...somewhere halfway between 1980s electro and weird Berlin dub clicks and pops.

Neat stuff...Sam's a true madman when it comes to electronic music. But the format really isn't a proper "5U", either...5U panels are roughly 8.75 inches, and Sam's standard height of 20 cm actually comes out to just under 7.9 inches. It doesn't work as a 4U (Buchla, Serge, etc) either, as that panel height is 0.9" too tall to match there.

There are other formats that aren't on MG, after all. I have a very big AE system (160 spaces), but the AE format isn't on here. Similarly, you don't see the Mattson Mini Modular format here, either...and there's a number of others, both present and historical.

Had some free time, decided to keep myself out of trouble by banging on this:

I decided to see if there were some stronger directions to go in with this. Turns out, there were!

First up, "voice" and "mod/control" are now separate (for the most part). I filled the tile row with "original" format tiles, because that allowed some major functional improvements. The logic gates on the left are to let you tamper with the gate/trigger signals coming off of the Nerdseq. There's also a comparator, which will allow you to pick off a gate based on LFO or EG signal levels, then add that to the timing mayhem. After that, you see two groups of attenuverter/offsets with a DC-coupled mixer and a DC-coupled linear VCA. Those are for messing with modulation signals...mixing, polarizing, imposing modulation, that sort of thing. And the final 4-in mixer is for audio, in case an extra mono sum is needed.

Note that I was able to jam a LOT of the standard tiles in that row...enough that it opened up a few things elsewhere. The Intellijel tiles are nice, to be sure...but the standard ones offer loads of "primitives", basic circuits that allow you to build up more complex subarrangements (like that DC mixer arrangement).

First 3U row: I shifted the Kinks to here to take advantage of the noise module added next to it. The Noise Rainbow there is supposed to be paired with the triple passive LPG next to it. Result: three more noise/filter-based drum sounds with those nice vactrol transients...you don't even really need to feed 'em envelopes, just fire 'em with the Nerdseq's outputs for rapid-fire percussives. Then...SampleDrum, Chimera, Entity, Chainsaw, Font, just like before...then we run across an Overseer VCF. The idea is ergonomic here; the Chimera is largely the same as the C4RB0N, minus the waveshaping (which you can easily do elsewhere, such as by running an audio signal to the SIGN section of the Kinks), but offers a few additional control tricks AND...it's larger. Since the main knobs that synthesists constantly tweak are usually VCF cutoffs, by going to this, I was able to open up the space around it AND the Font, making that playing method MUCH easier. 3xVCA next...then an Alyseum QMix, which gives you four mono ins with panning and a master trim, followed by the FX Aid XL...although if that works better with the main output mixer, it can be swapped with the Tallinn below.

Second 3U row: The little sliver at left is a Konstant Labs PWR Checkr...lets you keep tabs on the power rail performance. Very useful. Nerdseq next, then the Zadar and its expander. And then, yep, I had room to add a Batumi! This now gives you four more LFOs to keep the sounds moving and interesting. Got rid of the upside down mutes, went with Folktek's Quiet instead...for one thing, the form factor is right now, and also, the touchpads are lots more responsive than the buttons on the earlier version. Only one of these, though, and it's mainly for on/off control over CV/modulation paths. The AUDIO muting is on the Cosmotronic Cosmos stereo mixer, which has four mono ins with pans, two stereo pair ins, AUX send and stereo return, AND a nice overdrive that allows you to "crunch" the mix coming off of this...and yes, it does that selectively, since you can overdrive both stereo channels, or just one at a time if you want to run the Cosmos as a dual mono. And the Tallinn makes up the end of the row, for dynamic control of the Cosmos output.

Removed things: the Links (no real need for buffering in this, and it's cheaper to just use inline mults with that being the case), the Pico DSPs, the Matrix Mult, the Peaks, etc...there were just better ways of doing these things, and once the tile row got populated it started becoming apparent where to cut things, and what could go into the freed-up 3U space.

Now, as for the case...well, this is where problems crop up. Finding cases off the shelf that have the Pulplogic tile row in this size is not easy. You could go with rack rails and mount everything in a Gator or SKB road case...an 8U one would allow space for a power conditioner (lighted, even) on top, and this could allow you to switch your system on via that, leaving all of the DC supply electronics INside the case. And, in fact, this is probably far cheaper (and more practical) than the other options, which involves locating a case that either has the Pulplogic row (not easy) or building a bespoke case with it (not cheap). Perfect Circuit has the 4U Pulplogic rack frames, and for the other 3U, you can use the Tiptop Happy Ending or whatever works there. It's sort of halfway between totally custom-built and off the rack solutions, and it seems like it might be a proper solution here. The other nice thing about the rack frames is that you can CHANGE the row order and put the tile row in the center, where it would work better and make a helluva lot more sense.

The screenshot needs updating...go back to the build page and refresh that, then check the screenshot to make sure it and the "active" build are the same. Is this an Intellijel case, or is the tile row in the "original" 1U format?

Build snapshot seems to be missing...

I did a little work here to see where B.'s at with the presumed reissue. We're probably NOT going to see all of the lineup, for reasons that should be apparent in a minute...

Thus far, Behringer's got:

1003 Dual EG
1005 Modamp
1006 Filtamp
1016 Dual Noise/Random
1033 Dual Delayed EG
1036 Random/S&H
1047 SVF

Now, the remaining things that MUST be issued here are:

1004 VCO (either "p" or "t"...although having the "t" version would be optimal due to it having normal AND inverted outputs)
1027 10-step Sequencer (and yeah, Uli...it'd BETTER have ten steps and not eight. Stay true to the design!)
1050 Mixsequencer (already announced, but not out)

But wait...there's more modules than THAT. And yes, there are...but when you look at them, they're "denser" versions of these ones above. This list includes:

1023 Dual VCO (although, of these, THIS one hopefully will be forthcoming)
1045 Single Voice (nah...it's just a voice made up of the other submodules, and since these don't cost a gazillion bucks, well...)
1046 Quad EG (superfluous, kindasorta...it's the submodules of the 1003 and the 1033 behind one panel)

So, in truth, B.'s quite close to giving us a proper 2500 system. Although, yes, there's certainly some grousing about not having the matrix switch panels for patching (and let me assure you, you really SHOULD NOT be missing those! They were a bitch-and-a-half back in the day, and with age, they only got sloppier and leakier). But the solution to this...and a far better one that having to DeOxit the crap out of those sliders on a seemingly-daily basis...is to use a two-row cab, and then fill the bottom row with various mults, matrix switch mults, matrix mixers, and so on to emulate (and potentially extend the capabilities of) that sort of patching paradigm with 3.5mm jacks and patchcables. Kinda surprising to think that it's this close to being a thing once more...

EDITED Nov 8th 2020, 03:18

The TUNE and FINE TUNE controls don't set the root? I would think that that's typical for any basic quantized VCO...after all, the little keyboard in the SCALE isn't indicating actual notes, just the INTERVALS in each scale, and the actual root should be whatever you decided to tune the first degree of the scale to.

First up, if you're trying to build a proper two-voice setup, you need to be thinking NOW about a larger case. The build you're showing isn't close to this, and it only has 19 hp total for your utility modules, etc even at this stage. Also, I'm not aware of anything that's 2 x 62 hp. There are 62 hp Palettes from Intellijel, but they have a 3U and a tile row, and 4ms has one, but it's a single row. Either way, though, this isn't sufficient.

Also, in order to get a PROPER two-voice setup, you're looking at FOUR oscillators...not two. You need two VCOs per voice to do things like detuning, VCO sync, etc etc...things that beef up the sound from square 1 before you even get to the VCFs. Yeah, plural...unless you're thinking of two-voice paraphonic, where you can feed your two pitches through a single VCF. There's a lot of synths that DO do this, but real duophony requires separate VCFs for each voice.

Yes, I know you see a lot of these tiny builds on YouTube right now. They're NOT typical of what's considered a proper modular, though...they're more "bespoke" tiny systems designed by and for ONE person's use, and for anyone else, they're a wrong move...especially when starting to work with modular synthesis, because you'll be forced by the limitations of someone else, and though THEY might feel comfortable in that sort of build, the odds are that anyone else would NOT be.

Ahhh...that's a snazzy educational machine, then! I can see why there's less VCOs, then...you're trying to get the students to think a bit out of the box, plus you've got the other gear to crosspatch into. Reminds me of one of my assignments as an undergrad; I had to come up with a cluster of sine waves that panned and shifted pitch all as one. Problem is, the ARP 2600 we had as our teaching synth, as you probably know, only has a SINGLE sine output, on VCO2. The key to the problem was in knowing what you could do by 1) using the AR generator as a sine generator by driving it from VCO1's pulse output and some judicious programming and using the o-scope (the other thing that wasn't mentioned in the assignment) to check the waveform, and 2) feeding VCO3's pulse at 50% cycle thru the lag processor, and doing the same o-scope check there, too. Very interesting programming problem, that...and about half of the class (in 1981) couldn't figure it out.