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Ahhh, OK...hm, what I'd do would be to drop the Pam's right off the bat, because you don't really need timing and/or more modulation with that Maths in there. Instead, you need a proper input module and something isolating for an output because, if you're using external inputs, you have a higher possibility of AC leakage and other sorts of crud coming in on the outputs.
So...drop the Pam's. Then, you need to get a Nonlinearcircuits Envelope Follower (which also contains an input preamp and a 1/4" input jack) and a Happy Nerding Isolator. This leaves 2 hp (like it has now), and for that, my suggestion would be York Modular's Lockhart Wavefolder, which would also give you some selective distortion capabilities.
The envelope follower will output a modulation CV based on the input amplitude, which you'd find useful with either the Rings or the Wavefolder. And the output module features transformer isolation, which means you've got some "iron" in the signal path which would play nicely with a bit of overdrive to it, adding some nice euphonic warmup to the outputted signal.
Those two aren't really for percussion, though...instead, that pair of 4 hp modules are ones I selected so that you can have massive, slab-cracking BASS. The two slightly detuned VCOs plus that suboscillator will have the capability of generating POUNDING low-end. Also, when you're dealing with that sort of bass sound, you want simpler waveforms which will have more kinetic energy at their fundamentals. Think "Miami bass", but taken to a more violent level.
VCO makes sense, but I'm more prone to suggest taking that further. Instead of just one VCO, try a Zlob Dual VCO (4 hp) and tandem that with a Ladik O-410 suboscillator (also 4 hp). That way, you get two VCOs for detuning (sounds bigger) AND octave division (major bass) that tracks one of those VCOs. Now THAT would BANG!
Since you're in a module-dumping mood, I decided to push that a bit further...
A lot of the original is still in there, but I altered the layout for a bit of coherence and ease of use. The Quadnic now has its own summing mixer, as does the Plaits, A-110 and A-115. Then, a new thing from Alright, their Zzzorb state-variable and VCA combo is before the Rings. Then a proper pannable stereo mixer ends that row.
The bottom row has the modulation components. I started with a Kinks, so as to add some basic logic for timing to mess with, a bit of a rectifier/waveshaper, and a sample and hold with a white noise source. Marbles, then Ochd, then a Triatt for summing some of the Ochd outputs, or mixing those with the Maths (got rid of the Contour...why have one when two is better?). A pair of ADSRs for more straightforward envelope use, then the new Veils which brings the VCA total in here to five. The uBursts is next...and then there's the OUT. That last thing is super useful because not only does it give you isolated stereo outs, it has a second stereo IN with a ganged level control, which would be perfect for mixing the stereo out from the uBursts "voice" into the general mix. And you get a headphone preamp, too. And metering.
I did kick out the passive mults (use inlines instead...makes more sense with this small a build) and all of the Intellijel audio mixers because they just didn't seem to be a good fit here. Instead, the Triatt allows polarization of mod signals in addition to mixing, and the ability to invert mod signals was pretty lacking here in the first place. And the HN PanMix jr. DOES allow stereo panning whereas the Intellijels didn't. By and large, though, this retains much of your needed signal paths while adding some extra functionality to push the build even further. In cases such as the Doepfer mixers, I simply shrunk them. Plus, the Zzzorb will give you way more timbral flexibility than the A-120 ever could.
So, yeah...if you go further here on dropping modules out, this might be a good direction. Denser functionality, for one thing, will push the build way past what it was capable of previously. As for other changes, the Plaits/A-110/115 combo still kinda bugs me (the A-110 is pretty deep by present-day standards, and there's smaller octave dividers out there) and that would be what I would look at next, perhaps by going with smaller Plaits clones (2 > 1, after all), a different VCO (double?), and a proper waveshaper + divider combo with Tiptop's Fold Processor or some such. Although, the rectifier and logic sections of the Kinks can also serve as very useful waveform manglers in their own right, so maybe just a divider would work there.
2 x 104 makes a LOT more sense, especially since it's commonly and CHEAPLY available thanks to Tiptop and their Mantis case. Also, one best-kept secret might be found by checking out Erica's cases; they have a 3 x 126 for about $550-ish with beefy power. It's a little shallow, but as long as you stay under 45mm on depths, you're golden. Plus...the guitar can still go into the modular via the A-119. You lose the stereo return, but the "abuse potential" there is pretty massive with its envelope follower. Run the guitar through something like a Dynacomp to pull the level up on sustain, then just mix it like another "oscillator" while using the envelope follower to control VCF/VCA behavior.
And following on farkas' lead, here's this:
Again, the 0-Coast is NOT in this build. Keep it in its own cab. I left it here so that its functions can be evaluated alongside the actual build itself.
Top row: THREE oscillators; I figured that if the room's there, why not have BOTH Mutable oscillator clones? So there's a uBraids and a uPlaits, plus the Dixie2+. Next to that is a screwy Recovery device, their Motomouth, which is a cross between a ring mod and a waveshaper, then a 3-in mixer for summing oscillators. Added a second Cinnamon, then the PanMix is where you'll find the audio VCAs...just use the channels in manual pan mode. Then...yep, I KEPT the Magneto! After that, there's a Happy Nerding Isolator, which I really like for stereo outputs because it isolates the synth from any crud that might come in via the output lines.
Bottom row: I moved the P/S here; if it's possible to move it there, this keeps it away from the audio chain somewhat. If not, simply reverse the top and bottom rows. Then everything's the same as farkas' version until you hit the Kinks, which adds some basic waveshaping, logic, a sample and hold, and a white noise source. After that...a Noise Reap uLOAF, which is a twisty dual LFO with some crossmod capabilities. The 3xMIA is next, then the Maths, 3xVCA, Quadrax, and I added the Qx so that the Quadrax's envelope gens can be chained.
The "voice" part might seem a little short, but it's actually pretty well-featured with three oscillators, waveshaping, ring mod, summing, two SVFs, and six VCAs with panning in the PanMix. Pretty much everything you need...for TWO voices, if you felt like it, even! And then it all goes thru the Magneto. Where this really shines, though, is in the modulation row on the bottom. I was thinking ahead there, also providing modulation sources that could be broken out to the 0-Coast. Plus, the build is designed so that it integrates the 0-Coast better while keeping it out of the main cab. And this should ALSO play really nicely with the 2s; pairing this with a sequencer is pretty damn close to perfect now. It doesn't address the modules that are already ordered, but if you go with those in this small of a cab, we're back to square one with big modules and nothing to make them really GO. In this sort of space, smallER (not small, period) is better...even if I did manage to keep the Magneto in the build!
Thanks for the insight Lugia! Any particular utilities that weren't already mentioned in mind that you think might be worth swapping in?
-- enlargedgarbage
See above...I added a major variation to your initial build there.
So lately I've been trying to create patches with this thing solely inside the box. I understand that it's a small rack, and limited in capability in many areas. But I've seen so many videos of people who seem to be pulling much more interesting stuff out of similarly sized setups. I'm thinking of switching a few things up. But before I do that, I wanted to pick the brains of the much more experienced here and just kind of get some idea on how y'all would go about patching something up using only whats in the box here.
-- enlargedgarbage
Actually, I wouldn't...at least, not without some significant changes. The most likely reason why others are getting more out of their similarly-sized builds is because those contain the proper "utility" modules alongside these others. Without those, you're drastically limiting what the main modules are capable of.
The other issue here is that you've opted to put a bunch of very large modules into a small box. This never ends well. Invariably, the utility modules and other little boring-looking widgets get crowded out by the big "sexy" stuff, usually because...well, utilities are boring, they lack lots of lights and such, so they're generally the first to (incorrectly!) go. On the other hand, I'm NOT advocating that you should jam a bunch of 4 hp and down modules in here. But you've also noticed that this is a problem, apparently, since you're opting for chucking some of these. Hm.....
OK...what I opted to do here is to follow your ideas of what needed removing, then I went further and rethought how the degree of functionality could be upped to the level where you've got a REAL laptop troublemaker. And this is that, I think...
Many things got changed, partly to avoid leaving out various utilities, but also to shrink/alter a few things so that there's more going on. Plus, I added an external processing bit so that, if you're feeling like adding some external creepy noises and then screwing with them, you can. So let's start there...Doepfer A-119 + a Happy Nerding TriTone parametric EQ with CV control. You can send things into the synth with this, extract envelopes and gates from the audio signal, and then mess with this timbrally via the EQ. Grabbing a contact mic would be recommended, also.
After that, we get into the synthesis section...the first thing there is a Cavisynth Bufflide, a buffered mult (needed now) plus a slew limiter for portamento effects. Then the big bank of VCOs, courtesy of a Doepfer A-111-4 Quad VCO. Four VCOs is nice, especially if they're matched so that you can do some neat detunings. But I wasn't content with that, so next to it is an Antimatter Crossfold. This is a very interesting waveshaper/folder/combiner module that can take TWO oscillator outputs and more or less slam 'em into each other for radical timbre changes before you even get to the VCF. Right after this is a little 4-in mixer to sum the VCOs/Crossfold down to send to the VCF.
The VCF here is a very versatile, complex one...Xaoc's Belgrad. This thing loves external modulation, has lots of different modes, and can do vocal formants and some odd crossmod and internal feedback, in addition to being a dual-peak multimode VCF. But I wasn't content with JUST that, so for some percussive sounds I put in a Make Noise Optomix, which gives you a pair of lowpass gates. These can be fed by the noise generator for electronic percussion sounds, or you can process most any other audio source with these, plus they sum down to a single output if that works for a given situation.
I put in a Codex Modulex clone of Veils next so that you can actually have a degree of VCA control over audio levels going into the Doepfer A-138s. Then the audio path actually moves down to the Mimeophon (replacing the Morphagene, which loses a bit of functionality but which allows for more space) and the uBurst (replaces the fullsized Clouds clone) before it goes to the Happy Nerding Isolator for a stereo output level + transformer isolation. The nice thing about that, also, is that you can overdrive the transformers for some extra warmth. The idea here, though, is that these three modules are after the A-138s above them, and you can control the balance between effect and dry via the wet-dry controls on the modules themselves.
Bottom row: added a Doepfer A-118-2 so that you now have a noise source, plus a random voltage source and a sample and hold. I left the Maths (why not, right?), then added another little Doepfer module with four free-run LFOs. And right after it, there's a Tenderfoot attenuverter/mixer that allows you to break out each attenuverter, if needed. But the next thing is just nuts...
That next thing is an After Later BLEND, which is just nuts, really. It's a dual VCA, but it also contains a minimum/maximum discriminator and a comparator, all of which has plenty of abuse potential. Then, envelopes...I opted here for an Intelljel Quadrax with its Qx expander, which gives you four AR, or ASR, or looping envelopes with several shapes, plus the Qx allows these to be chained in different ways to add yet another complex modulation source.
Now, you'll notice that most of what WAS there now ISN'T. And a lot of that comes down to those modules being just too damned BIG. Especially in a 2 x 84 cab. With a situation like that, it's necessary to squeeze things majorly in order to get everything needed in there, to say nothing of trying to add functionality. I also got rid of some things that were rather unnecessary, such as the Strymon AA. But the major thing that was removed, and which I had some misgivings about removing, was the Hermod. I really did NOT want that out of there, but it's such a huge honker that if I was going to set up any sort of workable modulation chain, it needed removal. My suggestion with it would be to either put it into a powered 4ms Pod of an appropriate size, or consider going to a different outboard multichannel sequencer, or perhaps even a sequencer/controller combo such as an Arturia Keystep Pro.
Now, if this were in a 2 x 104 cab, things would be rather different in what could stay and what would have to go. That might allow the Hermod back in, allow the Morphagene instead of the Mimeophon, etc. But I'd still strongly recommend eliminating the Clouds clone in favor of the uBurst and adding the u4xVCA instead of a Veils because the space saved here would still be useful for other things. And as for the Quad VCO, the Doepfer VCOs might be a little basic-sounding, but with the Crossfold plus the Belgrad, they won't sound basic at all. And you get an external in with some CVable timbral control so that you can mic up acoustic sources. Like I mentioned earlier, these things are excellent with contact mics, and you'll be surprised at just what creepy and weird sounds are lurking right at hand, all ready to be fed into this thing. Lots of possibilities here now...
Now that's a micro build done RIGHT. The whole basic path is there, plus there's a careful selection process at work because certain things in here (the two halves of the Rampage, for example) can work as several different things as needed. The Rampage (which is sort of like Maths in that it's 'cored' around a pair of Serge Universal Slope Gen clone circuits) is a good example of this...you could use it as an oscillator, an LFO, an EG, and on and on. There is one teensy (it'd have to be to fit in 2 hp!) thing that might work really nice with that 2hp Sine...and that's this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/york-modular-lockhart-wavefolder Timbre, baybee...yeah!
As for the other build...OK, this needs to be a backpackable solution with one "voice". Hmmmm...let me think about this...
Hot damn...OK, this actually fits in a backpack, but you oughta get Intellijel's snazzy custom gig bag for it.
This uses an Intellijel Palette 62, which gives you the advantage of having onboard (and NOT under the modules, either) power as well as a tile row where I've put a clock, random source, noise gen, sample and hold, slew limiter, a 2-input mixer/attenuverter pair, a one-channel MIDI interface, and a ganged stereo output level. The case itself also gives you a pair of buffered mults, a MIDI over USB connection, and a stereo 1/4" output pair. Having all of that really blows doors open on the 3U row, and it allowed me to go a lot farther than even I'd expected.
How far? Well, lessee...2 LFOs, 4 VCAs, 3 VCOs (one pair of these can crossmodulate, the other single VCO is a Plaits clone), a pair of 3-in mixers (by splitting the Bastl ABC), and even a stereo FX processor that can take your audio chain from mono to stereo. Much of this relies on subfunctions within the various modules for the space-mushing voodoo...
3U row, left to right: Konstant Labs PWRchecker (good to have a visual feedback about your power condition), WMD Modbox (2 LFOs with CV, plus some other modulation sources), an After Later TILT (can either be an ADSR EG or it functions as half of a Maths...yep, a Serge USG clone of sorts), Doepfer A-140-2 dual ADSR (your main envelope workhorses), an Antumbra Dual VCA (which is really half of a Mutable Veils, where these sorts of variable VCAs are explained better) and the Bastl ABC in the middle. The idea there is that the ABC inputs are for mixing modulation sources, while the DEF ones are for mixing your audio sources. The VCOs start the audio chain next...and there's a Noise Reap Paradox and an Antumbra KNIT. Now, both of these are definitely NOT "normal" VCOs...the KNIT is a 6 hp clone of the Mutable Plaits, but the Paradox is actually a set of two VCOs which are set up to crossmodulate in various interesting ways.
But wait...the mixer is over on the left? Well...it CAN be...or you can use the 2-in mixer on the G-Storm Delta VCF. This is a clone of the Korg Delta filter, with both LP and BP capabilities in either 2 or 4-pole depths. Also, if you use the Delta VCF's mixer, this then frees up the ABC to act as a six-input mixer, or you can still use it as two 3-ins, but entirely for modulation. Right after this, another Dual VCA, and then a Frequency Central Stasis Leak...which gives you either reverb, delay (with tap tempo) or stereo chorusing, and this is the thingamajig that takes what WAS a mono audio path and "stereoizes" it.
Like I and others have said, it's not easy to build one of these little-bitty builds, but it CAN be done if you choose and proceed carefully! This rework fixes a lot of the latent hassles present in the original build. Some of this is directly attributable to the case, though...a thing which many modular builds ignore at their peril. By going with this Intellijel skiffy thing, I've eliminated the need to take up more 3U spaces with important functions, putting them into either the tile row or as part of the cab altogether. Result: a pretty decent thing that does what you want (and a helluva lot more...this has some real power to it) and fits your form factor needs aptly. The sole problematic thing here is that the Antumbra Dual VCAs are kit builds, according to the database...but with a little research and some extra $$ to a skilled module builder (if, in fact, you're not comfortable with soldering and such), they're very doable.
Also, this is a good illustration of what I talk about when I mention "functional density". This build is VERY dense, function-wise...but by trying to avoid anything below 4 hp and above 8 hp, that 62 hp row is chock-full of raw power while being easily worked manually. It's a dicey balance...but again, it IS doable. Plus, as noted by others, menu-driven modules are really a pain in a dense environment, so the effort there was to AVOID those, but to still maintain a hefty level of functionality. It works, I think.
When you exercise the pots with the module patched into an audio chain (in this case, preferably patched directly to the output) and listen to the output, do any of the pots exhibit "jumpy" behavior or, with audio path controls, cause any noise in the module's output? I'm sort of entertaining a theory here that there might be some sort of contaminant in one of those pots, could be something like a stray speck of metal in just the right wrong place...
Actually, one thing I would suggest is that you use the extra space to get rid of the 2hp modules. They're great in smaller builds, but if you're adding another 2 x 104 here, it's high time you made those functions easier to use by going with modules that are easier to work with. For example, you're considering more ADSR envelope gens...you could remove the 2hp one in favor of something like a couple of Doepfer A-140-2s, and that would up your ADSR count by three while only consuming 14 more hp. Also, the tile row could probably use another Quadratt...or perhaps a couple of Duatts...since there's a shortage of attenuators and polarizers. You could also go with a second Plaits (or a smaller 3rd party version) so you can have some nice, fat detuned sounds rather than just one single oscillator.
I should note, also, that the ochd has all of its LFOs ganged to one rate control. A better solution might be 4ms's QPLFO, which gives four independent LFOs with tap timing...and rates that can range from midrange audio all the way down to over an hour. That sort of slow rate is great for VCFs, lets the timbral results shift imperceptably over time.
Oh, and even though there's an FX Aid in there (good call), you might consider Intellijel's MultiFX tile as well...the chorusing would be useful for "stereoizing" signals, since it can take a mono input but gives you a stereo pair out.
This isn't a bad strategy at all, just be very careful to make sure there's ample space for utility-type modules.
Start with all of your controls zeroed. In this case, this means that the two CV controls are at dead-center, and everything else is down. Then send it triggers as you slowly move the controls off of their zero points. My suspicion here is that you don't have the "Pitch Decay" and/or the "Amp Decay CV" set properly...the latter one, especially, since not everyone expects a control like that to be capable of polarization. However, since drum pitches do tend to change as the sound decays, those attenuverter-type controls are necessary here.
Sooooo...where are the VCAs? And I suppose you could press the Pam's or the O&c into service for modulation, but that seems like a waste of what they're capable of. Attenuverters? Space for expansion?
Frankly, I would like to find out who's influencing people to make these pointlessly small builds...and kick their teeth down their throat!!! These clowns are causing people to waste a lot of time, effort, and money on builds that will not and CAN not function on par with the expectations of the people duped into making them. Thinking that something like this would be usable as a proper synth is along the same lines as thinking you can learn to drive on a tricycle. Yeah, sure, I get the "convenience" point of having something small, but that'll get outweighed VERY rapidly by the extreme limitations that using a cab like this causes.
I'd suggest getting VCV Rack and then trying to build an equivalent of the above in it. The problems should be glaringly obvious very quickly. Then start over with something like a Mantis (2 x 104) instead.
You ORDERED this? First up, you have things in here that will NOT work in this configuration. The Doepfer "mixer", for example, isn't going to mix ANYTHING without the output stage. This is also VERY dependent on the 0-Coast in there (where it really shouldn't be, since 0-Coasts have their own cabs and power) for filtering, proper envelope generation, and so on.
This is "sexy module syndrome" taken to the usual, horrible extreme. What boggles my mind is that you admit that you don't know what you're doing, BUT YOU BOUGHT THIS ANYWAY! Yep, you'd better be anxious...because it's probably going to take ANOTHER Rackbrute 6U to house modules that can make this build work. Far as I'm concerned, you've made a grave mistake in dropping a wad on this and then expecting to get a workable synth. You won't. The only thing in here that's useful is, in fact, the 0-Coast...which you might've just gotten in of itself and learned loads more than this rack will provide.
If you can cancel the order, I'd suggest you do so.
Yuppers...open case spaces might look a little "unfashionable", but if YOU get a new idea with all of those "holes", you're primed to drop modules in to explore that idea! This, to me, is one of the big plusses of ANY modular system...and one of the biggest mistakes I repeatedly see right now revolves around people trying to make their case size a "final result". It won't work. Period.
Systems get bigger. It's a super-basic FACT. And one that new builders need to keep in mind....
It looks to me like you're not thinking ahead here. If you're keeping the M32 in its case, then I don't see why you wouldn't go with the Moog stand + some Moog extra skiffs for the sake of convenience. Plus, if you went with a four-row Moog bracket, that would allow one or two more Moog patchables along with a compliment of Eurorack. All you'd need is power for those skiffs.
When considering modular synths, always plan to go further. Getting stuck on a certain size paradigm in modular has really screwed a lot of people over...until they realize that, in order to get any new modules, etc into their systems, they HAVE TO go bigger, then this expansion tends to go against the rest of their planning which revolved around the modular not changing...which is sort of a violation of physics! ALL modulars undergo change! And it's far better to have open space in which to work into than painting yourself into a corner with a "fixed" build paradigm.
Bigger cab, for starters. This is a pretty good start, but if you want to get REALLY deep into generative, you're going to have to go way further in.
Example: you've got a neat stochastic sequencing setup there. But you DON'T have any logic, no comparators, no mix/maxes, etc etc to work with its timing signals. So while there's some good options for generative sounds, this isn't even close to where it could go as far as generative processes can take it. By adding some of those...even if, yes, they look boring...suddenly you've brought your clocking and sequencer trig/gate aspects into the generative domain. And with a few comparators + Boolean logic, you can cook up LOADS of results that are based on your modulation source states.
So, I wouldn't concentrate on the sound generation SOLELY. Instead, figure out how to extend the generative concept AS FAR AS POSSIBLE...then pare that result back into a build that works with your capabilities and budget. You'll be pretty amazed as to the results. And yeah...if you've got VCV Rack, you can see how a lot of this should work.
Or, a better way of putting that would be to say that if you're busy making your "studio" look like a "stage set", then perhaps your musical priorities are getting kicked down to Priority #2, and being some sort of YT "influencer" is more important to you than knuckling down and digging into the difficult task of being creative...because being a tour guide for an acre of blinkenlichts und tvistenknobs is CERTAINLY easier than being creative.
But yeah...same methods in use here, too, sacguy. Find a sound and run with it. See where things lead. The "dots 'n' lines" composition crowd will probably get salty about that...but it's worth noting that that method was what Stockhausen and his ensemble were up to from 1964 ("Mikrophonie I") to the early 1970s (the "Fur Kommende Zeiten" pieces). Dude was correct, though...if you're prepared for it, the music itself will tell you what to do!
You're expecting way too much out of a tiny build like this. Yes, it's got a VCO/VCF/VCA chain to it, which makes up a basic voice. But in the process, there's a lot of compromises made in creating these things. Small skiffs like this aren't the sort of thing that can "...get fat sounds out of the modular, perhaps same for some leads, and to also delve into more ambient and general craziness that I can use for intros/outros". There simply is NOT enough there.
If this build is limited on the basis of money, I would suggest just getting a patchable system or two. This system will probably cost about $2.5k once it's cased and powered. At this point, I would like to point out that a Buchla Easel minus the controller comes in at only $500 more...but I'm NOT advocating that (very expensive!) device here. For "fat sounds" (bass, I'm assuming), you could get a Poly-D, leads would point toward something like a Microbrute or Minibrute, and for your weirdness something like a Kilpatrick Phenol...and the amount you'd be spending would be $600 or so LESS (assuming you get a Minibrute 2; a Microbrute instead would shave close to a grand off of this).
If money isn't the determining factor, though, I would strongly suggest that you do two things...
1) Get a copy of VCV Rack. Get used to how modular synthesis works...and DOES NOT work.
2) Scrap this build AFTER spending some time with VCV, then either build a PROPER system that can accomplish your aims, or go back to the option above.
Fact is, there's loads of people that think that a modular synth can "fix their music". Bollocks. If there's a problem with your music, NO PIECE OF EQUIPMENT WILL HELP. That falls more under the rubric of "user error". And there's this other mindset that you have to have a modular to be "serious". Also bollocks. Sure, it'll make for a wild time on Reverb and eBay for those of us who DO "get modular" in a couple of years. But that's not how I'd like to get my bargains. I'd rather see modular synthesizers get used CORRECTLY, which also means building them correctly in the first place, which THEN means that you need to know YOUR MUSIC well enough to determine exactly what sort of modules would go into an expensive bespoke build that you can live with and expand on for a number of years...perhaps a decade or more.
If you're not sure about that last part, if you're NOT ready to know what exact elements will make your music go together, don't do this. Get some time with VCV instead FIRST...since it's free. The rest of this is far from it!
Went nuts...because I'm GOING nuts in quarantine! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA....
OK, now that that's out of my system, I beat on this for a hot minute before lunch, and wound up not only finding how to keep the Queen of Pentacles in the system, I wound up majorly expanding on the original build! Check this out:
Hot damn! OK...this actually does have much of the original in it! But what I did here was to jettison as many of the full sized Mutable modules when possible/practical, and this reclaimed a BIG chunk of space. So, when you got space, you do the logical thing...
First up, I shifted the entire layout so that audio is on top, modulation (and effects) is in the middle, sequencing and mixing and drums and such is now on the bottom, which should also get the umbilicals from the BSP to the endorphin drums out of the way of everything else. Audio row is left to right from sources to VCFs, with the final audio VCAs actually residing in the Toppobrillo Stereomix II at the bottom.
Top row: I added a Konstant Labs 1 hp power monitor (always useful!), then your STOs now have a Pico Ring (with its own sine VCO) between them, hinting that you might want to "unitize" this as an initial voice. It's also got its own submixer there. Next to this, I mashed the original Plaits into TWO Beehives, which ALSO have a very wild waveshaper/crossfolder for THEIR intermod thingamajig. And again, another submixer. In case you've not noticed, these two pairings with their mod circuits and mixers are now a bit more "West Coast-ish" in how they can interact. Telharmonium's in next, then the 10 hp NEW version of Veils provides VCA mixing of all subsections of tone generation before we get into the filtering. And for that, I changed things up a bit.
Filtering in this version is a lot more complex. First up is a very versatile G-Storm multimode VCF (and 2 to 1 submixer) that replicates the Korg Delta's. After that, I dropped in Doepfer's twisted version of the MS-20 Sallen-Key VCF pair. Why twisted? Well, because this thing's got an insert point in the resonance path...so instead of just having it filter things, you can run the filter's audio feedback through something else, such as the nanoRings next to it, a leg of the Polaris, etc. Oh, yeah...the Polaris is now down below this, alongside a Pico DSP which, actually, make a nice pairing since the Polaris has a mono out, and the DSP has a mono in and stereo out. This is important later...
Middle row: buffered mult, right above the MIDI interface. There are definitely enough "destinations" for CVs in this that it's prudent to add one. I got rid of the passive mult, also, because those are still a little bit much for this build size, and you should probably use inline mults or stackcables. Next, I added a noise/random source with an independent S&H/T&H, this all being there to work along with the Marbles. Stages is in next, since it works with clocking, together with the previous two modules as well as the sequencing below. I added four free-run LFOs after this, then the shrinky-dink version of the Tides. This has a Roti Pola next to both of these to allow mixing, attenuation, and polarization of mod signals. After this is another new Veils, the Zadar (which now has its expander), and then a Quadrax for AD, AR envelopes OR looping of these for up to four more LFOs if needed. Next to this are the effects, with one of these also posing as a "global" filter (the Polaris). These are just above the AUX send/return points on the Stereomix 2 for easy patching.
Annnnnnd...the bottom row: MIDI interface stayed the same, then I put in a New Pam's, which makes more sense here than the Tempi, since the Tempi is really at its best when used with the Rene mkii, while Pam's is better in a "mixed bag" timing situation such as this. NerdSEQ and the drums are next, then the Stereomix 2. Now, this thing is a BEAST...four mono inputs with CV over level, pan, and AUX send level, plus mute and cue sends. But the killer thing here is that you also get a mono AUX send and stereo return, allowing you to patch your effects (more than likely, the Pico DSP will stay parked here) and mix them properly. This also has a killer monitor section, with the cue function being great for live patch adjustments. And last, a balanced stereo pair with some nice transformers to add a little warmth if you push 'em a bit.
This SEEMS better. The layout makes far more sense, and should result in less of a snarl on the patch panel. The thing that's really wild, though, is that you now have three "voices" onboard alongside the drums. Pretty beefy, I think...but with a case this size, it really did teeter on the "could I keep that?" line, and I went for it instead of ejecting it. Results seem to have born my suspicions out this time!
Which A-138? You've got two, and only one of those should be for audio, the other (linear) one is tailored for CV/modulation mixing. They deal with gain differently...the exponential one raises and lowers levels in a way that our hearing deals with apparent loudness (the Fletcher-Munson curves...look 'em up) and the linear changes gain in a purely linear manner across the entire input pot taper.
The layout is sort of crap, also...very confusional as to signal flow across the patchpanel. I'm going to tinker with that...
EDIT: OK, hopefully this build will actually show up. The "screenshot" function is acting pretty wonky right now...
Aaaaaaaand nope, it's not showing up. This'll have to wait until that function starts working properly again. However, I did a major-type rework of the build; since you mentioned you were considering tossing the Doepfer modules, I really dived in on this and tried for more functional density. UNFORTUNATELY ModularGrid is having other ideas here...
(Monday evening) Ahhh...the screenshot function is working again! So...
BIG reworking on this...the main thrust was to boot everything that didn't have sufficient functional density. If you're going with a 2 x 84 cab, then it's imperative that you maximize the amount of function you can cram in. So this thing got MAJORLY changed around...let's have a look...
Top row: first thing there is a neat little Cavisynth slew gen + buffered mult. And yes, this will likely have enough CV destinations that the buffered mult IS needed. Like, for the Quadnic...still there, but now paired with a little Doepfer 4 x 1 mixer that'll allow you to sum the Quadnic down with total control over the levels of the oscillators. Yeah, it's got a summed output, I know...but this offers more subtlety. Original Plaits = gone, replaced with TWO 3rd-party builds of the same. And beside this is both a waveshaper AND a suboctave divider in the Tiptop Fold Processor. Dreadbox mixer/multimode VCF next as an "in general" VCO mixer + VCF (highpass is super-useful here), then there's G-Storm's version (with another 2-input mixer) of the original ARP Odyssey VCF, and a Nanorings...yep, another 3rd party Mutable module, saving more space. Last up is the 10 hp version of Mutable's Veils for CV-controlled final mixing.
Bottom row: kept the A-118, Marbles goes next (because it uses the A-118 for random signal sources), and then I dropped in a 4ms Quad Pingable LFO. These are way nifty...they have a maximum cycle period of over 70 minutes and on the top end, they clock up to 500 Hz, so if you needed an AF mod source, there you are. Roti Pola next, mainly for mixing and polarization of your QPL. Beside that are two Antumbra VCAs (identical to the Veils VCA). Then the envelope section...I went with a Quadrax for the 2-stage loopables, and an Intellijel Dual ADSR for your four-stage envelopes for the final VCA and your VCFs. The very end of the audio chain is next to this...the Stasis Leak offers reverb, chorus, and a tap delay, plus it's a mono-in stereo-out device that can "stereoize" your signal...which goes right to the Happy Nerding Isolator, which also has your final stereo level control, and which has transformer-balanced 1/4" outs.
Now THAT'S got some beef! By yanking a lot of the sparser Doepfer stuff and shooting for more interconnectivity between SETS of modules, this is now one helluva potent 2 x 84. There's now ample modulation sources for the upper audio row, you have FX, stereo out, more VCAs...well, just MORE, really, which was the point of this rework.
An LDR array...pretty neat. Basically, this uses light-dependent resistors to generate CVs based on incoming luminosity levels. NLC made this for smartphone screens (putting the phone face-down on the array allows the array to "read" the light levels onscreen), but you could use it with a lot of things...a laser pointer set up like a pendulum would work too, and be REALLY interesting, more than likely.
In a very real sense, it's sort of an "analog UPIC".
Yep...the name of the module you're looking for here is a "diode OR"...it actually fits into the "Logic" category, as it passes a gate when any one of the inputs receives one, but it's not a "true" Boolean gate. There's also another similar module for combining CV/mods...adders, which have the fun capability of doing what the name means. For example, let's say you've got your pitch CV, but you want this to glide up and down in pitch instead of staying static. One way of doing this, natch, is to mult out a modulation source and send individual signals to each VCO's mod inputs. Which can sort of work...but it's messy and you have to adjust ALL of those mod input levels just right.
But the OTHER, more elegant solution would be to send the mod source to an adder along with your pitch CV. Combine, connect the VCO CVs as per normal. This cuts down on patchcables and hassles in general, and ALL pitch CVs are moving at exactly the same rate without futzing with the individual mod input levels.
...unless that 1A figure is the inrush current, in which case you'd better pay attention!
First up, I don't advocate putting synths (which this is...it's NOT a module!) into Eurorack cabs when they already have a case and power. This is costly, and wastes space that should be used for actual modules that have NO housing and NO power. And it makes the thing you've DEcased and DEpowered for this more expensive; case in point, let's look at a Mantis...
These cabs are pretty ubiquitous and not all that expensive. But when you put a Model D, etc into one, you're actually making that synth cost MORE than you paid for it. Each hp in that case comes out to a cost of $1.61. 70 hp = $112.70. So that Boog actually winds up costing you $411.69...instead of the $298.99 street you'd paid for it. Sure, it's convenient...but can you afford that sort of convenience? Sounds a bit extravagant to me...and ultimately, impractical.
Next, let's explain inrush currents...when you turn on ANY circuit, there's a period of a few milliseconds where it draws more current than when it's in normal operation. This is just basic E.E.-type physics at work. But that tiny interval of time is long enough that you can POP the P/S if the inrush current exceeds the P/S's current capacity. And also, trying to run a P/S at right near its maximum rated current damages the supply slowly over time, mainly due to heating effects on the components. The last thing you want to deal with with a modular is a power supply issue, especially one that could ALSO fire an overvoltage down one of your power busses. And, of course, heat in general in a modular synth is a cause for concern, as excessive internal heat can throw all sorts of things out of calibration.
This is yet another reason why I tell users to NOT put these in their Eurorack cabs. Also, keep in mind that while synth module makers are very fastidious about current specs (because of this exact reason, in fact), other companies often don't know or CARE how much of a load they're putting on your P/S. Case in point: Roland's AIRA modules...each of which draws 450 mA on the +12 rail. Users quickly found that trying to put the entire AIRA module range into their rigs was a huge no-go, since that would draw a grand total of 1.8 Amps just among those four modules alone. And these were released back when we didn't have some of the beefier power options that exist today...which explains a lot about why those things got discontinued.
The fix that I always tell people to do is to OVERSPEC their power needs. If your power needs on the +12V rail comes out to 1500 mA, then have at least 2000 mA on the rail...and preferably more...to avoid inrush issues. B.'s spec here actually comes close to my 1/3rd-more rule-of-thumb if, in fact, the 1A figure is the inrush and 600 mA is the "stable" draw. But this is why you have users who figure that 1500 mA would be the right amount in this example...and explains also why a sizable number of Eurorack users wreck their P/Ss. ALWAYS overspec! Always!
Regarding the 19" rack idea...do you have any idea how much 19" rack gear there IS? Or that the format goes back to around WWII for audio gear (like cool old Collins and Federal comp/limiters, passive EQs like my Cinema Engineering one, etc)? This would make the site into a NIGHTMARE for the admins, make it more expensive for the Unicorns because this would eat up loads more database item space on the server, and so on. I mean...hell...I'm sitting next to 90U of processing gear RIGHT NOW, and there's not a whole lot of repetition in those racks!
And also...where do you stop with this? Effects processing? Lab gear? Tape machines (I have two rackmounted ones staring me in the face as I type this)? Power conditioners? Patchbays? Buehler? Anything you can stick onto a rack shelf, so that we eventually arrive at an endless panoply of stereo gear, home appliances...sure, it seems like a good idea...but it really IS a potential bottomless data pit in the end-analysis. I vote NO on this, if simply for protecting the admins' sanity!
First up, it's a pretty bad idea, when starting in modular, to copy the rig of an experienced user. I would STRONGLY advise against doing this! You would probably find that you didn't understand how the system was meant to be used, resulting in wasting money and effort. BUILD YOUR OWN RIG. And don't try and make some miniskiff, either...putting something like that together and making it function nicely is a very tall order, and requires considerable experience with modular synthesizers to arrive at a useful result. In short, farkas is dead-on when he's saying that it'll be difficult to build something versatile in (actually) 75 hp...because that's what you REALLY have, as the P/S takes up 5 hp right off and your A-119 occupies 8.
Next up: there are not a bunch of different Morphogenes. There's THE Morphogene, and then its sibling the Phonogene, both from MakeNoise, and both initially derived from analog tape devices created by Pierre Schaefer. There ARE other sampling modules similar to the Morphgene...but there really is only ONE of those specific things.
You seem poised to make a bunch of huge mistakes here, most notably by jamming big modules into a tiny cab. Again, if you don't leave space for the various "boring" modules, you'll be left with an expensive and rather unsatisfying noisemaker...NOT a synthesizer. I would suggest two things...
1) Get a copy of VCV Rack. Use it. A lot. This will give you some experience regarding what modules do...and not individually, but in groups and subsystems, which is how you REALLY unleash the power in a modular. Plus, it's free, which is always a good thing.
2) Spend a lot more time doing builds, rejecting them, honing down the ones that work until you arrive at THE SYSTEM. Remember: this is NOT a video game, there is NO score, and there is NO time limit. Plus, absolutely NO ONE gets their initial build right...hell, most of the time, users still don't quite have it on build #10! Polishing your skills at building modular systems is one useful thing you get out of rerererererereREREworking these...and as that skillset improves, you get closer to that perfect build that says "pull out the Magic Plastic". And GO BIGGER...like I've noted, you really DON'T want to do this in a 1-row cab that only has 75 hp remaining. farkas says you can, with considerable effort, and this is true...but from my 40-ish years in electronic music, I can tell you right off that you do not want to do this.
As for what to do with the Rackbrute 3U you've got already...I'd suggest using it with a MiniBrute 2s, then using the Rackbrute to expand that device's functionality. That would then give you a proper sequencer, plus you can use the space (after removing the A-119, which would be useless here) to build up a subsystem to screw with timing, add perhaps a trigger sequencer, put in some logic, etc. That sort of thing...which would be a GOOD use of that Rackbrute. The other build, though...nah. Go with something that's got some ROOM...a Mantis, one of Erica's 126 hp-ers, etc etc. In the long run, it WILL wind up costing more...but then, you'll wind up with something to keep, instead of sticking it on eBay (which is what happens with a lot of users who think they can cook up something usable in a small cab, then they realize they'd basically conned themselves into a waste of time, effort, and ca$h).
Since you didn't mention that you had the cab for this, I went ahead and pushed that up to 2 x 104 hp (Mantis, etc). 84 hp was just too tight to make using the synth any fun in a lot of ways. Once I did that, the design REALLY opened up. Retaining your in-hand modules, I came up with...
OK...so what happened here? For starters, I moved the buffered mult (yes, this DOES need one!) to the left end of the "audio" row, then added a Doepfer Quad Precision VCO so that there's ample oscillators here for both audio output AND audio-range modulation. Your STO is next, then out of sheer experimentation weirdness, the next two modules are one of Noise Reap's bonkers crossmodulating dual VCOs and a Happy Nerding FM Aid, which allows thru-zero modulation behavior in addition to a lot of other crossmodulation functions. The idea there is that you'd wind up with a VERY complex little FM set without too much expense and the advantage of total user-definability. At the end of the VCOs now (of which you now have SEVEN, not counting any other "sneak" oscillator features), there's a 4-in MIX from 2 hp for summing VCOs.
Filters: Forbidden Planet is first up, then the next thing is a After Later build of a Mutable Rings, which now gives you a resonant object simulator. Then there's some REAL strangeness...a Limaflo Motomouth, which is a vocal formant filter...sort of like the Sisters that was there, but on steroids. Veils next, then I added that Cosmotronic Cosmix. Now, right below that, you'll see where I placed the Erbe-verb and the Echoz, and the reason there is that the Cosmix has an AUX send and two stereo input pairs that function nicely as FX returns. This swap now allows you to deal with your effects processing as part of the mix, instead of tinkering with wet-dry balances on feeding your mix through the effects individually. Last up in the audio row is a Happy Nerding Isolator...because it's always nice to have some transformer isolation to help with noise and crud, and to have a little "iron" in the output path that you can overdrive and saturate a bit, plus it offers you a master volume for the stereo output AND the appropriate step-down in levels.
Similarly, I went nuts on the mod/control row. Yarns first, then a Kinks to add sample-and-hold, noise, a bit of logic and waveshaping via rectification. Then a Triatt allows polarization and mixing of three channels of CV/mod signals, then the Wogglebug. The lack of really meaty LFOs prompted me to drop in a Batumi after that, which should play nice with the Maths. Added three VCAs there, which can also serve as a mixer and another polarizer. Then, for the VCFs and audio VCAs, I put in one of Doepfer's new little dual ADSRs. Last bits are the Echoz and Erbe-verb.
The changes I made actually come in at around $800 over the original build, but the amount of functionality added due to that additional space addition is pretty significant. Here's a rundown:
VCOs in the original = 3 -- VCOs in revision = 7
LFO in the original = 2 -- LFOs in revision = 4
VCAs in the original = 6 -- VCAs in revision = 7
Filtering in original = 2 -- Filtering in revision = 3
...and so on. A pretty good example of "go bigger than you think you need", actually. Also, one module in particular had to be eliminated right off, that being the Doepfer A-110-4. Given that this has a 60+ mm depth and most smaller cabs tend to top out around 50 mm or so, this didn't seem like it would work out well. So the revision is missing the quadrature function, plus the Megaslope, but the additions make up for much of this.
Seems better. Layout's definitely better, and there's some sneaky bits in there (like the Noise Reap + FM Aid possibilities) that promise loads of wild sound manipulation possibilities. Some superfluous stuff got tossed, also...such as the passive mult (it makes more sense to use in-line mults for passive splits anyway). Have a look, see what you think...
This would produce pretty much nothing, tbh. There's an Arbhar there...but no sound producing modules (as such...I'm not counting the Disting's audio capabilities here, namely because they're a minor part of what the Disting can do) NOR any way to get external audio into the Arbhar itself, since you have no input preamp. Then that negates having any of the OTHER modules; it's not a bad modulation set, but that doesn't help the other glaring issue of no audio generation.
Better idea, I think: first yank the Kinks and Links and put them in the main cab. This opens 8 hp in the control skiff, into which I would suggest this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/expert-sleepers-fh-2-factotum, probably placing it at the left end of the skiff to keep the cables out of the way...but to also allow the controls in the skiff to manipulate any of the CV, etc coming off of the FH-2. You could also pull the current MIDI interface in the larger cab in deference to the FH-2, plus you could easily drop the skiff in behind a small MIDI controller (Keystep, perhaps? the FH-2 is USB Host-compliant) and still get excellent ergonomics.
It also supplies some functions a basic MIDI interface doesn't do...check the listing for it. Alternately, one of Expert Sleepers' ES-8 USB interfaces (direct USB to/from CV/gate/trig) would work nicely here, PLUS you can use two "return" channels on it to track the modular directly with your DAW, since the ES-8 is a soundcard-type interface and can easily have two audio channels going back to the DAW while the DAW is busy controlling the synth parameters.
I went ahead and picked up the Cuvave fuzz, can't go wrong for the money. How does one pronounce it, though? Covfefe?
-- baltergeist
That's an interesting thing, actually. Apparently, the company pronounces it "kyu-VAEV", but the guitar crowd actually goes for "kyu-VAH-veh" after 60 Cycle Hum on YT called it that...then Cuvave actually made him some custom-marked pedals that has the Cuvave logo, but with an umlaut over the U and an accent over the E, so I suppose it's now the latter one.
EDIT: actually, I rather LIKE the "kyu-VAH-veh" pronunciation. It sounds like you should have Ricardo Montelban saying it in a sentence that also includes "rich Corinthian leather". ;-)
Hi Lugia, thank you for your answer! I'm aware of the four-tier rack (I own a two tier) but IMO that's not portable and/or secure for touring: it's simply huge, because of the form factor when having the 3 Moogs in a tier rack with an extra skiff on top. That's the main reason I'm looking for a case: to put them flat with a lid (with the added possibility to keep 'm patched in the case).
-- 3SGCC
I think you might want to poke around this website for a while before dismissing the quad-tier idea: https://www.plattcases.com/ Platt almost certainly has a case available in their many lines that will make a quad-tier VERY portable. And, depending on the line you choose, pretty damn close to smashproof. Or, you could just go 100% bespoke here and put some rails, distros, and a suitable P/S in one of their off-the-shelf cases.
I gig out as well, sometimes. But this has less to do with that and much more with the idea that you can't 100% rely on music retailers for music solutions. Remember: they sell the majority of their gear to the usual MI crowd...which we pretty much AREN'T part of. And that determines what's available in their inventories. So, the sooner you get used to working outside of that set of constraints, the better, because your available options to solve technical issues go WAY up once you're able to do that effectively. Honestly, the amount of "sweat equity" one outputs in music these days NEEDS to include time/effort spent in researching potential options; with electronic music, good technical research goes hand in hand with the usual musical points of practice, performance, and study.
A few things...first up, this thing is NOT going to behave the way you think it will. You're missing far too many of the various utility-type "non-sexy" modules here. Sure, it'll make sounds and such...but so will a kazoo.
Second, this doesn't appear to be very specific, and I see a lot of "let's jam ALL the functions in this box" going on. Given that this is actually a rather smallish build, you don't have that luxury...unless you like the idea of conveniently-housed noisemakers. It's far more advisable to pick a functionality...and then stay in that lane. If this were something in a huge Doepfer Monster case, sure, yeah, go ahead and put the drums AND the bassline AND the lead AND the effects, etc etc, in one box. But this isn't that.
Third, you don't have the luxury in this space of adding "superfluous" modules. Lose the LINK, lose the Paratek meters, and lose anything else that doesn't fit into a tighter definition of what this build should be. For example, you've got 58 hp dedicated to drum modules; if you can fit that into HALF the amount of space, it would make more sense to retain the drums...but right now, given the relative absence of modulation sources, the lack of any VCF at all, and so on, the smart move here would be to scrap this build (not a bad thing...NO ONE gets an initial build right -- EVER) and step back for a few. What does your music NEED from a modular rig? Are there other solutions that make more technical AND MONETARY sense? How do I set up a very basic patch? ALL of these...and buttloads more...are questions you need to sort out before ever getting a build close to a physical purchase. If not, you stand to lose a pile of ca$h on a box that you'll discover pretty quickly is NOT ALL THAT.
Before picking this back up again, I'd also suggest you spend quite a bit of time with VCV Rack, which is a pretty accurate "virtual" Eurorack system implemented in hardware, and is a very good tool for sorting out what one needs when they get around to hardware. Plus, it's free...which is EXTREMELY useful if you get it to avoid making costly mistakes later on. https://vcvrack.com/
Oh yeah, pedal talk! I'm admittedly a bit of a cork sniffer, but I'm very curious about those pedals Lugia mentioned. Quality for cheap is excellent! Chase Bliss is awesome, no doubt, though I've sold every CB pedal I've owned. Haven't tried the Mood, though.
I'm a huge Fairfield Circuitry fan. Speaking of fuzz/distortion on beats, I have a used Zvex Box of Metal inbound that I'm dying to run one of my Double Knots through. Could be cool on the Plumbutter too.
As an aside, Lugia, I picked up a Moffenzeef Kricket. Thanks for the recommendation, it's fitting in nicely!
-- baltergeist
Good call on the Moffenzeef...their stuff all seems to be designed using ultra-wacky EE methods designed to get everything BUT a "proper" electronic percussion sound...which is GOOD!
OK, Chinese pedals...aside of the GLORIOUS Cuvave rip-yer-face-off Fuzz (PUT IT IN A EURORACK MODULE, CUVAVE!!!), there's a lot of not-so-expensive goodness out there. F'rinstance, the Joyo Classic Flanger...sonically, there's a lot there that I remember from the old MXR plug-it-in-the-wall Flanger, but there's settings that the Joyo can get at that the MXR couldn't...it's especially good at long, rubbery sweeps with a lot of really extreme resonances. Or the really weird Aural Dream pedals which all seem to have settings that start where the source for that "clone" end.
Others...Daphon comes to mind, although their boxes are getting harder to find. Daphon was the OEM for Ibanez's 1980s-vintage bulbous-looking plastic-coated pedals...and they continued the production on these under their own label for a while. But the Daphons I dig are all housed in this unsmashable hammertone steel housing that resembles an industrial machine control pedal; the phaser is SO nice...not very extreme, but more in that "just right" pocket. And then, there's "it does something else"-types...like the Mosky Spring Reverb, which supposedly reworks the Malekko Spring Reverb...but DOESN'T, because when you turn the "dwell" up too high, the box will start to self-resonate and create some rather controllable feedback. On a synth.
Sure, some of these are, at worst, really mediocre. I don't have anything here (I don't THINK) by Kmise, for example. But even those you'd dismiss on appearance alone can still whip out surprises, such as some of the ugly, tiny Azor "tombstones" (their Delay in this line is just as solid as any other basic delay...but costs about $20-ish). The nice thing is that they're cheap enough that if you DO get something you just can't get happy about, it's not like you're out $200-400 (or worse!) for some boutique stomper. Or if you feel creative with something that turned out to be "meh.", you don't risk a lot of expense if you pop it open and start having at it with a soldering iron (provided you're used to SMDs...a lot of these use those).
Is there any reccomendation for signal hottnes when going towards the pedal? I'm using the outs of my befaco output, but always checking with my interface that the signal doesn't peak etc. How would a pedal I/O module modify the signal (except from also accepting somethingback from the outside)
-- zuggamasta
Pedal send/return modules (if designed right) do TWO things. One of these, of course, is level matching; modular and "instrument" levels are VERY different, and as a rule, a direct output to something expecting the sort of level that would be incoming from a guitar pickup would result in a lot of distortion...and even if you could deal with this appropriately, there's the OTHER issue: impedance.
Impedance differences can majorly screw with your sound. They can skew frequency response, mess with level matching, and/or potentially introduce noise into a patch (some of that depends on the stompbox in question, though). So a properly-designed S/R module needs to address both the level AND impedance mismatching to be optimally effective. The only time you might want to circumvent this would be if you're shooting for a really nasty, overloaded sound...and if you do, I would STRONGLY recommend running a compressor as the first thing in the stompbox chain to get some control over the level swings. Still doesn't fix the return levels, though, unless you've got an actual input module.
Technically, yes, it'll work. Expense-wise, not so much. The minute you take the Moogs out of their powered skiffs and put them in a Eurorack case, you're paying to house and power those Moogs twice.
Instead of making an expensive mistake in the pursuit of portability, see here: https://www.moogmusic.com/products/mother-semi-modular-multi-tier-rack-stand Now, right there on that page, you can see the REAL solution: a four-tier rack ($100) and an empty Moog skiff ($89) which deals with housing the Eurorack additions. As for portability and casing, there's loads of potential solutions for that...such as getting the right foam to put this into a large ammo transport case that's essentially the same as most instrument cases these days...hell, SKB even makes their own line of firearms cases!
Now...TWO Disting EXs? No. The menu diving will drive pretty much anyone insane, and frankly, it negates the immediacy of working with a modular synthesizer. Plus, one is JUST FINE given what just one can do! And the Pitt Lifeforms System Interface has a lot of compromises to it that I feel limits its usability. A better choice (in the same space) would be Catoff's MIX4 set...which is only $50 more, gives you full controls on ALL channels (not just three only), has TWO AUX send/returns, balanced 1/4" outs, metering, headphone preamp...and if four channels isn't enough, just buy a few more of the XIN expansion channel modules.
However, I would stress that, in the space we're talking about here, you need to be looking at SMALLER modules for your primary Eurorack functions. True, the Arbhar IS NICE...but it's large, and this build can't support having these huge things. Given what the Arbhar IS, wouldn't it make more sense to use the pretty-much-the-same-thing Clouds in its various shrunk-down 3rd party builds? It would definitely be CHEAPER. And for that matter, if you can do without the AUX setup, you could jam a 4ms Listen Four 1/4 into half the space of either the Catoff OR Pitt.
Mind you, I do think this idea has merit...I've even messed with a four-tier 60 hp build on here with a DFAM and my Subby as two tiers and two open skiffs for Eurorack, and may well do this at some point in the next year-ish. But there's also pitfalls here, too...so be careful, otherwise this can and WILL get needlessly pricey.
Ah, I see...it's a Frames clone. Well, yes, there's VCAs in it, but given the implementation, there's a lot more that it can do beyond just being a set of four VCAs. Quite a few users like it as a substitute (for now) for something like the ARP 2500 Mixsequencer, or for its morphing capabilities.
When I'm talking about VCAs, I'm talking about VCAs that have a minimum of bells 'n' whistles attached. In other words, something more akin to Mutable's Veils or the Intellijel equivalent, the Quad VCA. When you're using these as modifiers for CV and/or modulation levels, you don't want anything else going except for that one function. And you also need VCAs that function as single VCAs. Example: you only have the Plancks here...so let's say you need to impose an envelope on a modulation signal. Now, this won't have a sound to it, but there's definitely a signal there. But given that the Plancks CANNOT break out individual VCAs (or at least, not easily), you're using part of it to do audio, and part to do modulation, and this won't sound decent at all if you try and Mixsequence the output...because the "inaudible" modulation signal has to be part of the Plancks' "mix". This results in a "hole", audibly...but if you have DC-coupled outputs on your modular (which you just might have...Ladik's info says nothing about the outputs being isolated in any way) and pass DC to your amp. Then, if that's DC-coupled, on to your monitors...and then it's possible you'll get a result kinda like THIS:
Not good. So, yeah, while the Plancks can deal with audio just fine...that's not the only thing you need VCAs for.
Yep...look at it this way: if you already KNOW that 84 hp isn't sufficient, and if larger cases are readily available, why do this? After all, what you have here is missing quite a few of the utility-type modules necessary to get the ones that're in this build to really shine, in addition to farkas's excellent observation about the crap-level ergonomics.
And I won't even get into the total absence of VCAs here...
Maths is useful enough that there's not really a "not ready for" point to it. You'll get results from square 1, to be sure...and then, you can grow with it and sort out some of the other ridiculous amount of things it can do. Joe came up with a solid winner with that thing.
As for negative and positive voltage values...keep in mind that those terms can be a little deceptive, because you can shift a "negative" into positive voltages by adding a DC offset. The real importance here is that you can INVERT positive-going signals into negative-going ones. And those inverted signals have some amazing uses...
My JP-6 has inverted envelope settings. And those are, quite often, key to getting that Jupiter-6 sound. By modulating the VCF with a negative envelope instead of a positive one, this inverts the cutoff behavior...allowing attacks to LOWER the cutoff instead of raising it. And if you want a wild, sweepy thing to happen when you RELEASE the keys, that's how you do it. In modular, this just ups the abuse potential. For example, let's say you want to pan something...but you haven't got a panner in the rig. The proper fix would be to use two VCAs, an LFO, and an inverter so you can get a 180-degree negative of the LFO's output. You'd split the LFO's output, with one going straight to one VCA's CV, but the other wouldn't get a straight CV, but one routed through the inverter. The result is that as one VCA is opening up, the other is closing in perfect sync, and if you hardpan those VCA outputs to the left and right...well, there you go!
Whenever you run across something that's very much on the "basics" level such as that, you can bet even money that that's a functionality that MUST be in a rig...no matter what it's intended for!
Yep...it's a secondary power inlet, so that if you don't have the appropriate 9V adapter, you can plug the nasty little thing into USB. Pretty effin' smart...and Cuvave does this on most of their boxes, which is one of the things that separates them from the other Chinese OEMers.
How about this: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ladik-s-186-dual-delay Since you're running a KS37 in the rig, having a pair of trigger delays allows for offsetting and screwing with timing, lets you create crossrhythms, flamming behavior, etc. Useful with that clock divider, too.
Two Plaits is much more necessary than you think. True, there's plenty of synths that only have one VCO...but then, when you have TWO, you can then detune one ever so slightly and get a much fatter, beefier result. When I put those together, my intention was to aim things toward a VERY big, massive bass sound there. That's physics at work...the detuning causes all sorts of extra sonic phenomena due to the two oscillators phasing against each other. When the phasing is nice and slow, then you get phase reinforcement...sort of the sonic equivalent of 2 + 2 = 5 Or, with some of the Plaits waveforms, that's more like 2 + 2 = 17.6! Trust me on this one...I've left a nice "body count" of damaged subs, broken windows and such, and even some minor structural damage over many years in the wake of some of my bass patches.
First of all, if you're considering pairing this with a 2s, go on and get the Rackbrute. You'll be much happier with the resulting form factor, and you'll also find that it "gigs" better because it's much easier to transport both this AND the 2s as one unit.
Second, that's one expensive DFAM you've got there...because you're housing and powering it TWICE. Once with the skiff Moog put it in, and the second time if/when it gets stuck in here. Don't do this. Not only does this BURN UP 60 hp that should be used for devices that don't already have power and a case, you've also not added something like Erica's MScale to correct certain "discrepancies" between Moog and normal Eurorack CV behavior. This is also likely a huge part of what's keeping you from using a Rackbrute 6U.
Then beyond those points, I can tell you right off that what you have here isn't going to work like you think it will. The entire build is missing submixers, attenuverters, and so on. And it's also majorly lacking in modulation sources, which are essential to getting these other modules to do what they're capable of. You CANNOT build a decent modular system without sufficient modulation sources. Period. And that, minus utility modules = unworkable expensive box of circuitry.
If the idea here is to pair this with a Mini 2s, a far better way to proceed would be to figure out ONE MAIN THING you want this to do...either an actual complement to the 2s, or a sequencing addon, or...well, the upshot is that you can't make a small build like this do loads of things. Pick a lane for it and keep it there. And then, any functionality you get beyond that...that's gravy.
One other piece of advice...you still seem to be in flux about where you want your music to go. And if you're trying to build a modular without that key piece of info, you're much more likely to wind up with a box of costly bits...NOT a musical instrument. You're pretty well-equipped right now, tbh...my suggestion would be to get used to crosspatching all the stuff you've got NOW (especially the SE-02 + Minibrute 2s + DFAM combo) and getting used to how signal flow works there, what you might SPECIFICALLY need to take the present gear forward, and the like. And in the process, you'll have more room to sort out where a modular would work or even whether or not you really DO need one.
This was getting close, so I opted to throw down on it. Vide:
The layout is still the same, although I put the audio out on the bottom row so that all cables to/from the rig will be on the lower tier. Otherwise, this retains the "audio up/mod down" layout.
I reworked the audio row considerably. The Morphing Terrarium and Mangroves now are set to submix (or not) through the Optomix LPGs, and I replaced the Plaits with two 3rd-party builds of it. But these now are set to feed through the Samara, and the LPGs can ALSO go through this for various mixing + waveshaping transformations. Filters next, then I tossed in one of Doepfer's new micro series dual VCAs (one per VCF) before the stereo performance mixer. And "spring" reverb got added, with the Purrtronics Purrvrrb spring emulator; you'll likely feed this through the mixer's AUX out and then return it to one of the non-AUXed stereo channels. Once the audio mix is set, this then feeds down to the transformer-isolated stereo out.
Modulation row starts with a little 1 hp sliver...that's a Konstant Labs PWR Checker, gives you visual feedback on your power rail status. VERY useful as an early warning if something might be going awry with your P/S. Then starting with the Poti (the expander for the Batumi), things get entertaining. I put the Roti next to this so that you have it handy as an inverting mixer for the Batumi specifically, and anything else in general that you might mix with it. This allows fast programming of weird, nonrepeating LFO curves. I then paired the Maths and Quadrax by putting the Qx between them so that they can actually play off of each other if desired. A dual ADSR follows for your audio VCF/VCA purposes, and there's one of Mutable's new 10 hp Veils revisions there so that if you need any of it for audio, it's perfectly situated...and if you need them for modulation level control, they're convenient for that, too.
What's nice about this is that it's turned out that you have a solid audio path and a solid modulation complement...but in both of those paths, you can get VERY complicated with your patching and turn each row into its own gigantic "composite module" if you felt like it. In the end, this now seems to be a solid instrument...in a very real sense!
Tetrapad + Serge TKB? That would sound like the win of all wins! Handle the pitch signals with the TKB, then employ the Tetrapad as a left-hand "expression" control with all the user definition you can stand!
A lot of my work starts as various levels of screwing around...sitting down at a keyboard synth and poking around with various parameters until a sound pops out and says "OK...here I am, you bastard...USE ME!" At that point, I'll start looking around the studio and sorting out where complementary sound spectra can be cooked up...both reinforcing and conflicting. Eventually, there's a tipping point of sorts that appears, where the "uphill" of the messing around turns into the "downhill" of a new work coming together.
Where it gets dicey again is when I start to mix down and construct the mix's processing, gain structure, and so on....so there's another shorter "uphill" that happens as I transition the process from the synths to the desk and processors, but just like before, there's yet another tipping point and the mix just starts gelling together.
It's worth noting that this is a method I've used for decades, so I'm very accustomed to the workflow it requires as well as the nuances of the process itself. But I shouldn't think that taking the time to get used to one's own workflow patterns should be considered "time wasted". Instead, it needs to be viewed as just another method of musical practice; mixers and processors don't have "performance practice" in of themselves as a rule, so it's up to YOU to sort out that aspect of your work and make it part of your musical "fingerprint". And if it takes a week of hammering away to suss out four measures in a Schubert lied, it shouldn't be all that surprising that electronic music composition/performance/production ALSO has similar requirements.
What you need is LESS. And less attempts to put too many functions into a small case would be a good start. Less sizable modules would also be good. And then, less of the "sexy" modules and more of the boring stuff that actually makes the other expensive stuff WORK.
One thing you DO have less of is modulation sources...and in this case, you need MORE. And as for VCAs, ANY would be a good move at this point, because there's not any now.
Get those drums out of there, for starters. Frankly, unless you've got massive space in your cab, trying to build up a "drum machine section" never works out nicely. The modules wind up being space-hungry, and also require a good trigger sequencer in addition to whatever else sequential you've got. Don't do this...get a proper syncable drum machine instead and lock it and the Hermod up to the same DAW clock. And why have Rings AND Elements when the latter has the former in it? Seriously, get some proper FILTERING...having a good, punchy LPF is key to making bass that wrecks subs, NOT a physical resonator.
There's a lot you might get out of https://vcvrack.com/ before trying this again. You need to understand what attenuverters, VCAs, logic and clock modifiers (ESPECIALLY if you plan on a lot of sequencer work), and so on actually do and how/why other modules NEED what they do. Also, the "go bigger THEN reduce rule applies here", like Garfield mentions; start with a rack that you KNOW is too big...because, in the end, you're going to find out that what you knew about that build size was 100% wrong. If you begin with too much space, you have room to scale back FROM once you have a module complement that you know will work. But right now, that last part is a real stumbling-block. Do some work to actually see for yourself how this should function, then come back to trying to do a hardware build. Your credit card will thank you later.
Hey sacguy...have you thought about adding some sort of touchplate controller to the "bottom" row of the base case? While it's not cheap by a long shot, I have to admit that ARC's version of the Serge TKB would make this thing really HOWL. Not only do you get a set of touchplates, you ALSO get a multirow sequencer on top of that, which can be patched to be manipulated in real time. Chuck it in between the Metron and the Befaco stuff, and there you go!
