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Very cool...look forward to seeing more videos from this setup! Excuse the drool, so many sweet modules in there...been looking at Morphagene pretty closely for a while, be interested to hear what you do with that

Exactly right Lugia and Rene feels more like an expressive touch controller inasmuch as programmable sequencer. My other modular sequencers feel like programming a computer except for Stillson Hammer that has live slider controls. Really a unique and fun approach. Make Noise is a very clever modular group of genius inventors.

Hi Lugia,

Thank you very much for the additional information, very interesting!

It explains it perhaps also why I feel the high tones of the 4012 filter sound a bit harsh (not sure if that's the right word), now I know why :-)

Great info and kind regards, Garfield.

The engineering behind the differences in the 4012 and 4072 is pretty interesting...

The 4012 is, of course, the "lawsuit filter". This was the amusing stand-off between Moog and ARP, when Moog accused ARP of stealing their transistor ladder concept (they did), only to have ARP whip back around and accuse Moog of lifting ARP's exponential CV converters (and they did, too). More or less ended in a "agree to disagree" state, but ARP did redesign that filter...and screwed it up.

The 4072 is the "post-lawsuit" filter, and its mellower, less edgy sound comes from a circuit design mistake that rolls the response off between 12 - 16 kHz. It was released anyway, as the voicing IS actually pretty neat if you're shooting for a mellower result. But until the recent releases and DIY clones, you never really had the two VCFs side by side unless you happened to have two different 2600s. To my ear, the 4012 is the go-to for bass and really cutting leads, while the 4072 works great on pads and countermelodies.

Still kinda wish they'd put in the HPF from the Odyssey, tho...

Good point, sac...the Rene isn't JUST a sequencer. It's just as usable as a controller. Sixteen neat little touchplates...VERY West Coast!

Thanks Garfield! I wanted this system three years ago when I had a 0-coast but it was sold out for long time and I started my modular journey with Doepfer modules. No regrets as Doepfer and other modules taught me a lot about eurorack world and I still use them. This Shared System from Make Noise is a work of art dead sexy and sounds incredible. I love the hands on approach to west coast synthesis that Make Noise is based on mostly. The touch controllers are a very fun way to create music.

Hi Ryan and Lugia,

Ryan: Thank you :-) Interesting that you like it around six minutes, somewhere as from that point starts my favourite part of that track too!

Lugia: I forgot to reply regarding your filter comment. The above track has been done entirely using the 4012 rev. 2 filter :-)

At first I didn't hear much difference between the 4072 and the 4012, then I played a bit more with it, till I discovered that the 4012 is my favourite. Can't really put it under words why, this might sounds a bit silly, but I have the feeling that when I use the 4012 the Blue Marvin is somehow more communicative towards me and I feel the sound is a slightly bit more lively too. No huge differences, at least not with my untrained ears, however there is a subtle difference I am able to notice.

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sacguy71,

Wow, you received already your Make Noise Shared System Plus, that was fast! Nice demo video, it looks like you are having a good time with your new system :-D

I wish you lots of fun with the new system, enjoy and thanks a lot for sharing this with us. Kind regards, Garfield.

Wow! What a vibe here. Very evocative with a lot of mystery and intrigue created by just the sounds, and with the visuals supporting. It's incredible what worlds can be expressed through the interplays between harmony, dissonance, rhythm and tension. Thanks for sharing, I think it's really skilful.

Nice little banger here. I very much appreciate the contrasts in sounds I've been hearing since I became interested in modular music, from these fast and full sounds to more sparse ambient, to very noisy and chaotic stuff. All good, and I never know what to expect. Thanks for posting, I enjoyed it a lot.

I really like this. Nice work! Some very interesting visuals in the video, too. I'm not familiar with the work of Syd Mead, I'm going to check out some. Thanks for sharing!

Miaw! This cat module is very fun, except the hissing which is actually pretty scary, and perfect for Halloween!
Congratulations too on finding a Shared System. That's a fab looking instrument, and the one which first sparked my interest in modular.

Hi Garfield. Nice to hear your Blue Marvin! I especially like around six minutes, when it gets slow and very atmospheric. Beautiful tones :)

I have ordered a bunch, in the last few months from all over the US (I am US based), perfect circuit, detroit modular, control, sweetwater, chuck levins, and everything has arrived. I used the default shipping (whatever was marked as free) and honestly haven't paid too much attention, some things have been delayed a few days here and there but I always got what I paid for. While I can be as impatient as the next guy, frankly these are luxury items that have always arrived independent of what was used for shipping. This reminds me of the airline argument when people claim they will never fly again because only to find that in an imperfect world things just sometimes happen and all carriers can and will be at fault. I recently got a module from one of the vendors above all nicely sealed that clearly had rack rash, made a simple inquiry and got a new panel shipped from the manufacturer. My only gripe comes when something doesn't arrive/doesn't work or isn't as described and there is any issue getting a refund or a new item resent, luckily for me I haven't had this issue ever, I must be one of the lucky ones. International shipping can be a different issue as customs is quite a mess, though I have ordered a few things internationally and haven't had an issue here other than longer shipping times.

So.e time ago i ordered a module from central and it took nearly2 months to arrive in denmark

Slippery Slope mode engaged, have fun planning your expansion.

Arrived yesterday and spent time last night patching on my new Make Noise Shared System Plus. Such a fun powerful modular package! Here is a quick jam I patched with Rene v2 and Tempi for sequencing/clocking the DPO complex oscillator with Echophon and Erbeverb for pitch/echo and reverb effects. This will keep me busy for a long time and no need to buy more stuff for at least another year or two since I also picked up some support modules for my other case.

Since many people ask questions and ask for suggestions, I sometimes wonder what solution(s) they ended up chosing. So, I thought I'd finish this post with the results of my questions here and on Mod Wriggler, and show people what I came up with.

Firstly, thanks for all the suggestions, as you'll see below, I did finally put together my first rack. I decided to stay with the 104HP, as a way of focusing on what to pick for modules - although that will change/expand in the future (as we all know).

I decided to go/try the no Maths route, after all what you've never had you can't miss. I went with the Quadrax and a Falistri. They're both very interesting modules and I'm amazed at what you can do with them. I also dropped Stages and ALM Pam's New Workout due to availability (at the beginning). Since a friend of mine talked about Ornament and Crime, I wondered if it could be an alternative to Pam's, which when I looked into it, it seemed a more interesting choice, with many more possibilities/uses - Robin Rimbaud called it a Swiss Army knife of modular.

Lastly, most of the modules were chosen because of their multi functions. As an example, the Quadrax can do so many different things, and the Joranalogue Filter 8 is quite exceptional in being a filter, a VCO, LFO, a slew generator, etc.

Anyhow, here's the solution that I came up with - I should add once again, I have a Pittsburgh Mod. SV-1b, Make Noise 0-coast and a Synthstrom Deluge which I use to work with this rack.

Any comments and/or suggestions welcome as always.

EDITED Nov 3rd 2021, 10:16

Tempi and Rene are a great combo and it’s fun hands playable like an instrument. You can tap in tempo for the tempi channels to Rene and quickly change tempo and clock division for example in real time. I’m really enjoying Rene v2 has cool way of sequencing different than most sequencers plus touch based fun.

That’s a great tip on using scales, I will have to give that a go. I’ve been a more plug and play user of quantizers, select scale, use attenuators and mixers for stepped random voltages and let it run. I almost picked up the Addac quad quantizer but it is so expensive I used ornament and crime quad quantizer to program separate chord tones and switch between them, but I like this approach as well, solid.

Intellijel Scales is part of my setup because it allows me to constrain pitches to pre-set groups (e.g. "pitch class sets" or "PC-sets").

The basic setup is like this:
1. get a Scales unit
2. read the manual to know how to program your own pitch selections (PC sets) into Scales
3. use "Pitch B" to SELECT WHICH of up to 7 PC sets is currently active
4. use Pitch A input as the pitch signal quantized to your selected PC set
5. use Pitch A output as your quantized pitch signal to send to any units needing it

I send a sequencer signal to Pitch B to pick a PC set on a defined rhythmic plan (e.g. I'm setting the "harmonic rhythm") of the song, then I send any signal to Pitch A to pick pitches from the active PC set.

This setup allows for huge flexibility while at the same time constraining output pitches to a desired sequence of PC sets. Super useful for my purposes. It lets me do things like:
-- I find 3 chords I like in a sequence. I program those 3 chords into Scales. Then my modular can jam / riff / do arpeggios in ways that exactly fit that chord sequence.
-- ditto but programming in scales that fit with a chord sequence (as suggested by the "chord-scale theory" common to Berklee books)
-- I will be evolving this technique to allow "auto-counterpoint" though that is trickier in practice.

In summary, I think Scales could be a good fit for your need, specifically because you can change the active PCset via PitchB input. In a guitar analogy: in Scales used this way, PitchB is like the fretting hand, PitchA is like the strumming hand.

Good luck, enjoy!

A dedicated quantizer or a sequencer with built in quantization will help keep things in tune. Ornament and crime is great value with a quad quantizer built in, scales is a dual quantizer, but you have less control over the notes available to each channel. When paired with a matrix mixer and/or an a*b+c polarizer you get a lot playable improvisation. Now this helps with the no wrong notes, controlling dynamics and when voices play is a topic in and of itself and the options here are many, mutes are a easy cheap option to switch on and off voices during live performance.

A dedicated quantizer or a sequencer with built in quantization will help keep things in tune. Ornament and crime is great value with a quad quantizer built in, scales is a dual quantizer, but you have less control over the notes available to each channel. When paired with a matrix mixer and/or an a*b+c polarizer you get a lot playable improvisation. Now this helps with the no wrong notes, controlling dynamics and when voices play is a topic in and of itself and the options here are many, mutes are a easy cheap option to switch on and off voices during live performance.

Yep, the Tempi + Rene combo has a backplane connection that locks these up as sort of a "hybrid" single module with pretty elaborate clocking tricks. Also notice the dual logic module next to the Tempi, which allows you to majorly screw with how clock pulses get generated and from what. In theory, you could lock the Rene to the Tempi, then use two other clock modifiers to mess with how those interact in the logic gates.

If you don't know about Boolean logic, you'd better! Using Boolean gates to create complex gate patterns is a killer way to get even more out of a system than JUST having a clock. What Boolean logic is are basic operators and how they react to incoming gate signals...

AND only fires a gate when both inputs to a gate are active

OR only fires when there's a gate on one or the other input. These can also be used to combine pulses, which is why you see so many pulse adder-type modules

NOR only fires a gate when there are NO gates at EITHER input

and NAND only fires when both inputs are NOT active, but is on in all other states.

You can also get the "N" via using an inverter on the gate output so that the gate's resulting "high" state converts to zero, and vice versa. But these slightly-confusing Boolean gates kick the door off the hinges when it comes to creating complicated patterns...and all you need are a couple of gates to input. Now, as for the rest of the Pam's trickery, did you look at this?: https://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/fh2.html You'll note that the FH-2 isn't JUST a MIDI interface, but it ALSO has some sneak functions that kinda overlap with a Pam's. Have a look at that link.

Now, where to start for building...my suggestion would be to start with the top row and then you can work on how to optimally use the synth's voicing. Then the second row, which should be fillable at that point since Tiptop should have some of their Buchla "t" series modules ready. Get used to how the modulation works, and how it works together with the top row's voicing. THEN do the control row on the bottom. By getting used to the primary functions of each row one at a time, when you finally get to the point of implementing MIDI and a controller, you'll be very much up to speed.

I would be interested in how others from the forum build their rack if they want to play it completely live. Do you have a central module with which you control your system or do you have ready-made SEQUENCES? For example, melody, bass and drums?
-- FWGW

I don't think you're going to find too many people using "canned" sequence tracks or prepacked libraries around here...

As for how to play a modular "completely live", there's literally no guidebook to that process. A "live" system is just as likely to have some type of MIDI interface as a "studio" system. Plus, that's not the only way to control a modular via some sort of computer interface...you can use a DC-coupled digital audio interface or a purpose-built DAW to Modular module such as the ones Expert Sleepers makes.

As for my "modular sandbox"...there's no real "central module", either. That part of the studio is set up so that pretty much anything goes, given that modulars ALSO tend to fall into the "anything goes" zone as well. Sometimes I'll use some ad hoc clock distribution, but that's about the only "typical" thing I do.

Once again I totally agree. Thanks guys for your advices.

About mixing : For the moment I mainly use the 321 as attenuator / offset, and I plan to acquire a 3xmia for the same reasons because the voltage block suffers from a lack of attenuations (why malekko did not include this option ?? Why ??!!!). In addition to that, pamela is not bipolar, it will also be very useful to me to modulate its signals. I use my matrix mixer in combo of marbles (marbles 4 cv out, matrix 4 in, it looks like they were made to meet). Regarding tesseract and audio mixing, I think I overestimated my current needs a bit. On the other hand, I absolutely need to improve my stereo mixing capacity, so I think I will start with a single stereo module and drop the mono. The send / return will bring me a big plus to optimize the use of my effects / sidechains. For the rest, I don't have much left to buy to complete this project and it is indeed always a plus to have a little room to meet my future needs ... the maestro looks amazing !!!! I had heard about it without paying much attention to it. Just watched a video...this module looks totaly insane to perform on the fly! I want this !

Thanks again and sorry for my english wich is not my main language.

Cheers !

EDITED Nov 2nd 2021, 21:20

I discovered a possibility of extension to the M303 that might interest you with MI Warps + Soundmachines LS1lightstrip... see the Mylar Melodies video below.
Note the final budget, but you apparently will get a true enlargement of the 303 spirit. It’s very surprising...
For my part, I almost opted for the Behringer TD-3 simply, as I had indeed done with the RD-6. But, from my point of view, if drum machines (like mixers) are more obvious and tactile in a traditional desk solution, I have preferred 2 basic modules to combine with other tools I already have (like Optomix, modDemix, Synchrodyne, Bloom...). That's an inexpensive solution and takes little space too (6HP): Pico VCO2 + VCF1!

Wow Lugia!

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond in depth! There are a number of modules in there that I am not familiar with so I'll have to do a little research.

It looks like the Buchla stuff hasn't been released yet so I'll have to wait on exploring those, but I'm really excited to dig into you suggestions!

You only have the Trident in there for oscillators. Think that will be enough with that setup? I guess you are considering I have a Moog Grandmother too and the disting.

Are you mostly suggesting the Tempi over a PNW because it pairs with Rene? From videos I've watched I feel like i'm leaning toward PNW.

Last questions. Where would you start with your suggestions? I can't get everything at once and some have not released yet.

Again thanks for your time!

Supersaw oscillators are on my wish list since they are the core of trance music. Maybe in year or so. Looking at Acid Rain Chainsaw, Saich and others. Instruo modules are hella expensive and so may go with cheaper ones.
-- sacguy71

Cheap Chainsaw is nice to have sound allway gread!

Supersaw oscillators are on my wish list since they are the core of trance music. Maybe in year or so. Looking at Acid Rain Chainsaw, Saich and others. Instruo modules are hella expensive and so may go with cheaper ones.

I have been enjoying the saw coming from my Ts-L :)
One thing I wish modular builders would start doing is switching the dials they use for coarse vs fine adjustments. I think the fine adjustment should always use the bigger dial...IMHO

Hi,

I was wondering what filter would pair nice with the Qu-bit chords. I've tried to use both a roland vcf 512 and a system80 860 but the results where rather poor.

Anyone has experience with this module through filters?

Thanks
Mat

EDITED Nov 2nd 2021, 14:15

This IS a nishe supersaw,

If you loking 4 a analoge supersaw you will find no better solution jet (11.2021) (only Happy nerding supersawtor, but you need more that one module 4 a good sounding patch).
It takes a bit to patch one one Saich, but once you found you will get that this sound is analoge and push true nice filters or fx it get realy chilli!

There are some nice "performing" sequencers. Or you need a keyboard and play live some root elements.
I think you can't avoid one of these two approaches if you want to improvise with others...

the modules will be available in Sonic-sales in about 2-3 weeks

im definatly getting one,thanks Lugia for pointing my awareness to these modules

Quadrax with the expander is an incredible tool. Also check out the Maestro from Acid Rain Technology that gives you six programmable channels of complex modulation and you can save the presets for recall later. It’s a super fun module geared toward live performance.

Take a look at sequential switches and matrix mixers. Some let you create presets for recall. I’m having a blast right now using Livestock Electronics Maze that lets you build and save presets of cv control for recall later. So you can do cool stuff like fade in and fade out with patterns.

Build = $7110 on modules alone, add another $1200 for the cab, so $8310 or thereabouts. Maybe. Could be worse, actually.

Two Moog Matriarchs + Two Korg SQ-1s = $4658 street.

Result makes no fiscal sense at all to implement. Technically, the entire build itself is redundant.

What would be FAR more sensible would be to get the Matriarchs and SQ-1s (or wait for Uli to start kicking out the BCR32s), then use a smaller cab such as a Mantis to add modules to arrive at that "more functionality". Otherwise, this is a very expensive exercise in why one doesn't build polyphonic modulars unless you have a laundry hamper or two full of Benjamins lying around. The smaller build can also contain a number of modules that can let the Matriarchs link in various ways for a full-on eight voices with a lot of extra "trickery", plus extra FX processors to beef up their sound.

Also, keep in mind that while it IS bigger than the Quadrax/Qx pairing, we're getting the Buchla 281...same sort of idea, but with an additional quadrature function. My applications of the Quadrax/Qx are actually derived from using a 281 YEARS ago, and recognizing that that module was straight-up KILLER. Sure, it takes another 8 hp, but this is one of those times that the extra space is VERY justified.

Several things, but I've tried to get some of those back into the build.

OK...Row #1: I put in a Doepfer A-119 so that your input can also have an envelope follower, allowing you to fire gates and output the dynamic info as CV in addition to getting the sound into the box. Kept the buffered mult since there's a lot of potential pitch CV needs in this. Then Wogglebug, Trident, Veils, VCF-74...and then a different filter altogether. Since you had the 2hp vowel in there, which is sort of a restrictive module, I blew that open by adding Limaflo's Motomouth vocal formant VCF, allowing ANY sound to have vocal characteristics. The Minsk then takes the mono signal we've had through the voicing and allows that to be formed into stereo...with a few extra tricks such as being able to use a Mid/Side matrix to broaden the sound to OUTSIDE of the stereo field. Lastly, FX Aid and then the Clouds clone.

Row #2: Went nuts here. You needed random, so you got THE random source. Does about a bazillion things, which you'd expect from a Buchla module. Maths comes next, then there's this mixer/scrambler module from Modulaire Maritime that can process modulation, paired with a triple linear VCA for controlling mod levels. Then Buchla's fine 281t is there for a pile of functions. Envelopes, obviously...but way more than that, plus you can have quadrature pairs of mod signals. Kept the Magneto, also.

Row #3: Took out the other EXPENSIVE AF MIDI interface and went with a more capable and cheaper one from Expert Sleepers. Then I added a bit of logic via Tesseract's dual VC logic gates. And then...I think I've fixed your Rene problem; the Tempi module is designed to work as Rene's clock source as well as a complex time source, plus it opens up a few "hidden" Rene functions. This should make it a lot smoother to work with, and also eliminates the need for a Pam's. Annnnd...once that's fixed, the Triad/Arpitecht pair should be somewhat more straightforward to use. MUXslicer is next so that it can either work as an adjunct sequencer or an audio MUX, then your Disting EX is after that, right by the last Veils...which serves as a VCA "front end" for the Doepfer A-138s.

But yeah...some of the issues definitely came down to not having the paired modules in a couple of cases. Once they're in, it opens those modules up and that then frees the other modules up from you needing to worry about whether or not you've got the right modules. And that Tempi can also kick up the MUXslicer's game by providing a complex clock for it as well. This should be able to really tear up now.

just got a email from the EMW guys,they will send a bunch of sub-osc generator modules in their next shipment to Sonic-sales in germany
-- Broken-Form

Hellzyeah! These should be quite useful, as they're JUST the suboscillator and the two-position waveshaper. A lot of times, you'll find the suboctaves tacked onto other devices, sort of like an afterthought, but this is tailor-made for subbass.

Definitely check their other stuff...EMW's been a real unsung hero in cheaper modules. They seemed to go through a bad patch a few years back, but they're back on mission again, apparently.

And don't forget: tons of VERY capable computers are out there, too...thanks to corporations that constantly turn over their equipment, often due to tax purposes. The ability to snag a major-scale Xeon workstation for $1000 that can outstrip most any typical consumer-grade computer...there's nothing like it, really. True, they're not new, but they're often available in full refurbs via joints like Newegg or on Amazon as well.

Possible future plans to build essentially two Moog Matriarchs (with more functionality) in one all-Doepfer rack with two sequencers. Advice on potentially saving space for more modules in the future or getting rid of necessary redundant ones would be appreciated :)

EDITED Nov 2nd 2021, 00:53

Okay, well based on your use case outlined about, I would additionally suggest you hold off adding in-rack mix capacity till you know you need it. Mix modules appear (to me) overrepresented in your current build above.

BTW a few months ago I went nuts with getting in-rack mix capacity, more than I had proved I needed, and it is basically unused in my rack.

RE Stages or Quadrax+Expander, yes either of those would likely serve you well. I have Stages and love it BUT it can be hard to learn how to use without an Oscilloscope as it is very powerful and depends greatly on how it is patched. Quadrax I don't own but I've heard good things; I suspect that one might be a little more direct in usage vs. Stages. But both are good options.

Good luck, enjoy!

EDITED Nov 1st 2021, 23:13

I must give another shout out to Joranalogue Morph 4 for its ability to mix / morph / scan signals (CV or audio) even at audio rate. NOT a signal source, and not super cheap, but an interesting and powerful tool for experimental stuff & sound design.

Bonjour titifoufou et beinvenue
si vous voudrais communiquer avec des autres sur le forum, c'est plus bon en anglais
si vous trouvez cela difficile, peut-être que google translate peut vous aider - juste comme ça
excusez-moi ma francais - c'est la francais de un garcon d'ecole anglais

Hey everyone!

Thinking of selling and buying some modules for my Eurorack and would love some opinions.

My current setup is the Rack above and a Moog Grandmother.

I mostly use it for Acid like bass lines, drones, and other random things but I'd like to maybe sell a few things and buy some new ones.

Thinking of selling
Arpitech - because...its ok but I don't love using it.
Rene - I like it but maybe sell this for a Metropolix

Also, I have a lot of room for new things. Been thinking about a Pam's New Workout, Happy Nerding 3xMIA, HN fx aid, an X Y controller, Ls1 Lightstrip maybe another Oscillator or a Jove Filter.

What do you think is missing from this setup?

Le rainier en kick/snare rentre dans la FM lineaire du ZPO qui joue un arpege, le tout en polyritme

Another data point, for what it's worth: I ordered from Detroit Modular and Perfect Circuit when the Hallowe'en sales were announced on the evening of Oct 27. Detroit Modular free shipping was via USPS, which arrived the morning of Oct 30. It is Nov 1, and the Perfect Circuit order (also free shipping, but FedEx) is crawling across the country, currently in Iowa.

I know that Postmaster General DeLay is trying to ruin USPS, but if we stop using it, he will win.