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A note on the trig sequencer: a valid contender to replace the Gibbon ALAK (funny little device, it seems) would be the Robaux LL8, loads of power hidden in there, I recommend having a look
-- toodee

Very true...but then, this is why I dropped the Pam's in there. By coupling the user-defined trigger sequencing that Pam's is capable of to a four-channel CV/gate step sequencer, things get kicked on up into the bonkers range.

Are there any sequencers in eurorack format that allow for recording gates of arbitrary length? Longer than 16 step sequences?

Hello,

Currently own the Winter Modular Eloquencer which is a fantastic tool! Although there are two things which I wish it could do..

So I'm wondering if there are any sequencers that can

1.) Record in longer gate lengths via external midi or internally? In order to program longer sustained envelopes

2.) Have more steps per pattern for more slowly evolving sequences?

Cheers!

Hi Mowse,

Sorry, I can't tell if you have been listening a lot to Stellardrone because I don't know what it is or does...?

Anyway, still great and fun to listen at jam you got there! Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Lugia,

"Oh, you mean one of these?: O0YAAOSwQnpezCL2" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Soundcraft-Vi6-digital-mixing-console-mixer-upgraded-w-racks-church-owned/133599376656?hash=item1f1b24b510O0YAAOSwQnpezCL2 ."

Oh yes! That would be something, for 1500 bucks fully functional and in perfect undamaged state ;-) I would say yes, then I clear out the living room, then I wouldn't care any longer what wife or son have to say ;-) Living room will then be the new studio, yeah!

Dreaming is nice... though back in the reality... it's tough to find a good mixer but hey, that's with everything: the perfect synth or perfect sequencer or perfect mixer just doesn't exist, so one almost always ends up with doing concessions. Cheers, Garfield.

Hi Mowse,

Oh, those first few tones, so tense, so nice, I am getting goose-bumps here! It also reminds me a bit of Jean-Michel Jarre's Waiting For Cousteau (original 1990 release), track 2 "Calypso - II" when that starts around 1:00+ minute.

Nicely done Mowse! Thank you very much for sharing this and kind regards, Garfield.

Can't we asked Anna to make one rack (one row will do for this purpose) full with only VCAs and we and Anna should keep that secret from JakoJako. Then when he "surprises" her with the no longer secret rack, she counter-surprises him with a rack full of VCAs and tells him:

"Well you know darling what they say on ModularGrid, you never can have enough VCAs!" :-)

Man, I wish I could help here. This is a great thought exercise, but I feel like once a rack reaches a certain size, the arrangement all depends on highly personal choices and workflow.
Personally, I'll be maxed out on space at 832hp soon, and had to make some recent arrangement choices that may be odd to some of the folks here but make perfect sense to me based on how I use the thing. I really just looked at what I wasn't using and asked myself why. If it was because the module didn't fit into the concept/sound I was going for or if I hated the interface, I pulled it completely out of the rack (goodbye Clouds and Phonogene) and opened up that space for something more practical. No use for me to eat up time and space with something that is just not working. If I wasn't using a module because of where it was placed in the rack, I moved it closer to the modules I use most often. That was actually the case with Maths for me. I wasn't getting the most out of it, but now I use it all the time simply because I moved it closer to where I have my hands most often.
I have spent way too much time scratching my head, configuring, and reconfiguring my rack here on MG before making any real-world changes, all the while being mindful of how I actually work (which is probably way different than your approach). Then I finally took a few hours on a Sunday and actually completed the "Great Rearrangement", but I still spent time over the next few weeks moving a few modules. Now, I'm really happy with my arrangement, and getting the most use out of everything.
I think if you follow the general guidelines we've all offered to the novices here (e.g. maintain a sensible signal flow similar to a hardwired synth architecture: osc -> filter -> modulator -> vca -> effects, keep similar module functions together or separate them out into multiple voices, etc.) but on a larger scale, it still applies. But give yourself an allowance for having certain modules in seemingly odd places because that's where it makes sense for you.
Have fun with it. I wish you luck!

Yeah, JakoJako probably has this figured out already. :)
-- farkas

probably - had no idea - most racks I see like this are newbies!!!

Seeing as how I'm in love with the Basimilus Iteritas Alter, I just had to have it in my rack. So I revised what I'm after and tried to make smart useful choices.

I have a Moog 104hp skiff, and that's not very much room, however, I knew that I wanted something not too overwhelming, and something that wasn't going to take up much room on my desk. I felt that if I got a powered Mantis case, I would be overwhelmed with the question, "How the hell am I gonna fill this thing up?" I felt better knowing I could come back to that question at a later date after I've had some practice with the simple basics, not to mention I was just trying to be cheap(ish).

so you have one case - not 2 - you have multiple threads in the latest posts section - all with similar name - it is a bit confusing!!!

That raises the real question; Just what am I after in my rack?
I come from making and listening to progressive house, trance, industrial, idm, just all sorts of electronic music. So I knew I wanted variety. I knew I wanted something to engineer my own kick drums piece by piece. I wanted to make some melodic plucky moog-ish synths like Deadmau5. I knew I wanted some grungy crunchy percussive sounds like Nine Inch Nails. But I also want to practice more experimental things I could record to expand my productions and style. One other thing I thought about is this all has to go into my computer for editing, but I also want the option to externally sequence things with midi coming from my computer as well.

good that you are asking yourself that - good long term goals

you are not going to achieve all you want to, to any level where it is worthwhile, with a single row, nor probably 2 for that matter!

decide on one thing that you want to do and focus on that - you may find that you manage to do it!

So, in summary, here's what I chose to achieve just that:

uMidi - This is going to mainly be for external sequencing melodies, arps, kick drums, all from Ableton Live

Pamela's New Workout - I want to use this with the Sequencer I chose but also for the inputs of Basimilus, the trigger for Maths, and possibly to clock the uMidi. I alos love that i have 8 different outputs I can change with Euclidean rhythms and clock deviders/multipliers.

PNW will not clock the uMidi - read the spec clock is out not in!

Disting MK4 - I was recommended this module specifically for having more options in functionality. I like all the randomness it holds, as well as the amount of control and modulation it offers. Perfect swiss army knife with MANY options. I don't even know what ill use it for but I'm sure ill find something. What's important is having and learning about my options and unlocking functionality. And Disting is PERFECT for that.

Varigat 4+ - I knew I wanted a pretty standard sequencer with a cool balance between CV and Gate triggering, but I also found it useful that it comes with some scale shifting, quantization, different sequencing modes, and much more. I know I can also quantize it with Disting MK4 as a plus.

don't waste disting re-quantizing an already quantized note from the varigate - remember that whilst disting can do a shit load of things - iut can only do 1 at a time!!!!

BIA - Basimilus is just bad ass sounding. That's it.

uBraids II - I like the original Braids by Mutable Instruments. I had the option of playing with the digital version in VCV rack. I like that it has some preset sounds that I can use to my advantage in making my house tracks, with the option of slightly modulating their sound.

ONA - I wanted a standard oscillator with a few more wave forms, but what really drew me to this module is that it has an LFO setting, and octave shifts.

ONE - MAYBE 2 voices at most per row

3 is too many - you will not be able to fit the support modules you need in order to get the most out of them - sub mixers would be useful!!! maybe levit8 can manage to be a

if you want mulitple different tones use a single vco and multiple filters for variation

Maths - because who doesn't need a Maths? Ill primarily be using it for an envelope generator, but I'm sure ill use its other functions somewhere along my experimentation sessions.

download the illustrated manual - work your way through it multiple times

Polaris - I wanted this module because of its options. I wanted a filter that was useful in making some good plucky synths out of its frequency modulation, and some good drones with the bandpass setting. Seems like a good choice.

FX Aid - its got 32 different effects. sounds good to me. I also have the option to change the firmware to my wants.

go xl if you can - much better ergonomics and more modulation inputs - one of the joys of modular!!!

Levit8 - I chose this for the sake of having a mixer with many inputs and outputs. It seems like a great utility, and fairly simple with lots of functionality. Something useful.

So there you have it. Something simple, efficient, and wonderful to behold. It will be great for practice, and hopefully give me an idea for my next case.

-- Nabroc

& WTF - NO VCAs!!!!?????!?!?!?!?!?!

Yeah, JakoJako probably has this figured out already. :)
.

The result is very pleasant.
Continue.

if you specifically want an adsr - get a doepfer one - they are inexpensive and will do the job perfectly well

otherwise the quadrax seems like a good deal - envelopes and lfos - which you also have in maths (but this is a good thing)

I'd get a matrix mixer next to experiment with combining different modulation sources (and some stackcables so you can use the original modulation source too)

Pretty sure this is a test, hehe.

external sequencing?
external mixing?
mostly 'popular' feature modules!
too many voices for this size case
no utilities?
consider swapping echophon for an fx aid xl - more versatile and a lot smaller!

if the case is one of the palette 104s, I'd seriously consider swapping it for a mantis - if you can find one - cheaper and more space - yeah I know 1u tiles are cute and all, but an extra 3u row is way more useful - and it's still portable - unless GF is very small and weak!

Don't forget a https://www.modulargrid.net/e/2hp-mult-love-panel

it's the patch cables - I think people associate analog and patch cables to some extent

Sieht Anna das nicht?

I love the Erica stuff, but I would probably lean towards the Quadrax for an EG/LFO module as you are starting out. It has four separate EGs with CV control over programmable parameters.
If I remember correctly, the Erica EG is only a single ADSR envelope.
Have fun and good luck!

Seeing as how I'm in love with the Basimilus Iteritas Alter, I just had to have it in my rack. So I revised what I'm after and tried to make smart useful choices.

I have a Moog 104hp skiff, and that's not very much room, however, I knew that I wanted something not too overwhelming, and something that wasn't going to take up much room on my desk. I felt that if I got a powered Mantis case, I would be overwhelmed with the question, "How the hell am I gonna fill this thing up?" I felt better knowing I could come back to that question at a later date after I've had some practice with the simple basics, not to mention I was just trying to be cheap(ish).

That raises the real question; Just what am I after in my rack?
I come from making and listening to progressive house, trance, industrial, idm, just all sorts of electronic music. So I knew I wanted variety. I knew I wanted something to engineer my own kick drums piece by piece. I wanted to make some melodic plucky moog-ish synths like Deadmau5. I knew I wanted some grungy crunchy percussive sounds like Nine Inch Nails. But I also want to practice more experimental things I could record to expand my productions and style. One other thing I thought about is this all has to go into my computer for editing, but I also want the option to externally sequence things with midi coming from my computer as well.

So, in summary, here's what I chose to achieve just that:

uMidi - This is going to mainly be for external sequencing melodies, arps, kick drums, all from Ableton Live

Pamela's New Workout - I want to use this with the Sequencer I chose but also for the inputs of Basimilus, the trigger for Maths, and possibly to clock the uMidi. I alos love that i have 8 different outputs I can change with Euclidean rhythms and clock deviders/multipliers.

Disting MK4 - I was recommended this module specifically for having more options in functionality. I like all the randomness it holds, as well as the amount of control and modulation it offers. Perfect swiss army knife with MANY options. I don't even know what ill use it for but I'm sure ill find something. What's important is having and learning about my options and unlocking functionality. And Disting is PERFECT for that.

Varigat 4+ - I knew I wanted a pretty standard sequencer with a cool balance between CV and Gate triggering, but I also found it useful that it comes with some scale shifting, quantization, different sequencing modes, and much more. I know I can also quantize it with Disting MK4 as a plus.

BIA - Basimilus is just bad ass sounding. That's it.

uBraids II - I like the original Braids by Mutable Instruments. I had the option of playing with the digital version in VCV rack. I like that it has some preset sounds that I can use to my advantage in making my house tracks, with the option of slightly modulating their sound.

ONA - I wanted a standard oscillator with a few more wave forms, but what really drew me to this module is that it has an LFO setting, and octave shifts.

Maths - because who doesn't need a Maths? Ill primarily be using it for an envelope generator, but I'm sure ill use its other functions somewhere along my experimentation sessions.

Polaris - I wanted this module because of its options. I wanted a filter that was useful in making some good plucky synths out of its frequency modulation, and some good drones with the bandpass setting. Seems like a good choice.

FX Aid - its got 32 different effects. sounds good to me. I also have the option to change the firmware to my wants.

Levit8 - I chose this for the sake of having a mixer with many inputs and outputs. It seems like a great utility, and fairly simple with lots of functionality. Something useful.

So there you have it. Something simple, efficient, and wonderful to behold. It will be great for practice, and hopefully give me an idea for my next case.

EDITED Mar 10th 2021, 13:38

After some back and forth I got an FX Aid from Schneidersladen and YES. So good. I also went with a passive dual LPG, which might not be as versatile as the pico LPG Lugia recommended, but the Skiff is just... full. No place for cables or modules deeper than 2cm. Which is alright because this small Kit just... works!
I streamed/recorded a session with the thing and ORCA last night. Best thing? I haven't even touched the Disting, which I want to add tonight.

A note on the trig sequencer: a valid contender to replace the Gibbon ALAK (funny little device, it seems) would be the Robaux LL8, loads of power hidden in there, I recommend having a look

I find it interesting that people associate "analog crazy shit" with a rack composed exclusively of digital voices. Not that they're bad, just not ... well, analog.

what do y'all think about the erica synths black eg? I want something pretty simple to start with honestly. i want to explore with making my own synth voice for a little while. i have the erica synths wavetable vco already. i'm waiting on the a-106 doepfer x-treme filter, and the intellijel quad vca as soon as my next check comes, or stimulus money. but anyway, this should get me a pretty simple synth voice i presume? any advice or opinions are greatly appreciated as i tend to learn the more i read everyone's replies, etc.. -justin

Can you tell I've been listening to a lot of Stellardrone? I hope so. One of my biggest sources of inspiration.

Garfield: Oh, you mean one of these?: O0YAAOSwQnpezCL2" target="_blank">https://www.ebay.com/itm/Soundcraft-Vi6-digital-mixing-console-mixer-upgraded-w-racks-church-owned/133599376656?hash=item1f1b24b510O0YAAOSwQnpezCL2 Well, this one's going for $13k, so the prices on the large-format DIGITAL stuff is coming down...ish. Give it another ten years and my bet is that these will drift down toward the $3-5k range. And how did I find that ML3000? Years of Nashville experience gets you in that super-scrounger groove, baybee. You haven't LIVED until you've dumpster-dived (in ACTUAL dumpsters!) the alley between 16th and 17th Ave. S. and pulled out "obsolete" gear (by early 1980s standards) like Altec "Birdcages" or CBS Volumaxes. Being able to parse German helps, too.

Nickgreenberg: Yeah, I learned on large-format. I'm used to it. Plus, I tend to create elaborate 'composite' sound sources that can necessitate having a pile of "hot" faders, plus I'm running a 32-channel Antelope Orion32 which allows me to use the FIVE in a huge split mode...24 ins feed to the Orion via directs, and the other 8 ins are from the groups. Then 24 outs from the Orion32 have their own strips, with the last eight being capable of direct out via the routing patchbay. But another nice thing about large-ish format desks in a more normal electronic studio is that users can normalize their setups...each instrument gets its own strip, and the user can keep that configuration more or less permanently, which cuts down on all of the connecting and disconnecting business.

Now, my studio isn't set up like that...mainly because my workflow needs TOTAL flexibility, as different works require rather different setups. Also, there's some "subsections" in here...modular/patchables are all in a "sandbox" environment with its own small mixer (original Mackie 1202), then there's a "classic studio" rig that uses test gear and this also has a stereo submixer (Alesis Studio12R), plus a set of shortwave receivers that ALSO get their own very basic stereo mixer. Everything is routed here via two MASSIVE patchbays, so if I need to change configurations, it's super-easy. And as if that's not enough, I have a pair of Rane SM26B mixer/distros (one in each patchbay cab) and a Studio Technologies 1-in/8-out stereo distro amp that lets me do parallel routing for FX send/returns. The total patchability paradigm is actually based on how a certain studio at Syracuse U. is set up...and given that that setup was designed in collaboration with Dr. Bob, the usefulness of it was VERY apparent just on a cursory examination. Originally, I had this with a Topaz-24 at the mixing position, but that desk was just not up to the task, given where my composition skills have gone over the past 20 years...it only allowed 4 AUX sends in post-fader, the EQ had some irritating limitations, and I never liked the sound of the FX return channels. The FIVE, otoh, gives me a massive amount of sonic control, and lets me entertain sound creation methods that would've been utterly horrific to try and suss out on the Topaz.

Here ya go... https://www.modulargrid.net/e/ai-synthesis-ai008-eurorack-matrix-mixer Even fits in the hole left by the o-scope with a couple of hp to spare.

Still seems like there could be some improvement here, though...give me a bit...

Haw!

OK, so sue me...I "cheated" a bit by using an Intellijel Palette 104 cab for starters. This gives ALL your I/O jacks, mults, MIDI via USB and power right off the rack, though. And this'll be a common theme in this build; why put in single function devices when you can double up your functionality in the same space?

Tiles: MIDI interface, Noise Tools (noise, clock, sample and hold, slew limiter), dual linear VCA, QuadrATT, Multi-FX, Stereo out.

3U row: Pam's (eight channels of clocking and/or sequencing), Wogglebug (fun with randomness), Batumi + Poti (4 LFOs), Zadar + Nin (4 envelope gens), Gibbon ALAK (4-channel step sequencer), 2 x Klavis Dual Waves (dual VCOs with internal quantizing), Veils clone (VCA submixes to the VCFs), G-Storm Delta VCF (multimode w/ 2-ch input mixer), G-Storm SH-101 VCF clone (LPF, also with 2-ch input mixing), Antumbra 1/2 of a Veils clone VCAs, Happy Nerding FX Aid.

Now, take a closer look here...there are very few single-operation modules in this. Everything in the 3U row (except the Wogglebug and the FX Aid) either does multiple functions, or can output multiples of the same function. The tile row lets you move the attenuator/mixer OUT of the 3U space, along with letting you use a number of other things that you also wouldn't necessarily have room for in the 3U row. And likewise, this is capable of operating in a true 2-voice mode, or one massive single voice with FOUR oscillators. Four channels of CV sequencing, eight of trigger sequencing and/or clocks, plus a NINTH clock as an overall master in the Noise Tools. Two different FX paths (mono-to-stereo and true stereo), two different VCFs that can also sum down two VCOs each (via their VCAs, natch), and so on. Relying on additions such as tiles (when doable) and multifunction modules allows this...even in 104 hp! So, yeah...you CAN build a single row skiff that's VERY workable, it just requires a very different "eye" for the right devices, and a very different mindset about how to pick the right modules as opposed to a larger build.

EDITED Mar 10th 2021, 02:54

Had a feeling...

im having a hard time finding a "matrix mixer"

@JimHowell1970, sure, this is my actual Nifty Case:

As you can see it misses a lot of stuff, but I'm slowly expanding it. The things I'm planning to get next are LFOs and VCAs, precision adders, attenuators and maybe a complex filter.

@troux thanks, I considered getting the Palette too. Maybe it's too expensive for me at the moment, but it would be a nice addition for sure.

Sure thing @Lugia, for the future I'm planning to build a way more complex setup, but for this time I just wanted to get to grips with these few hp. I know the sound you get is very limited but it's really what I'm looking for haha.

This is a very simple patch with a lot going on.

XAOC Odessa, MI Plaits, MN STO, MN Telharmonic, and a Mother 32 create ambient pads and arps while WORNG Vector Space provides all modulation of oscillators, filters, and effects.

Points of modulation include: Odessa 'Density', 'Warp', and 'Harmonic Factor, Mother 32 'VCF Cutoff' and 'Mix CV' (noise), Plaits 'Harmonics' and STO 'Shape', and Ripples 'Freq.'

WORNG Vector Space is my new best friend.

replace the oscilloscope with a matrix mixer

if you feel you need an oscilloscope - just get a dso150 and work out how to connect it to the modular without taking up rack space!

Okie Dokie.
Got rid of the sound sources, added some better choices as oppose to the fuckery I had in my last build.
This should be a better half for Beep Boop hopefully.

Hi Nickgreenberg,

Yeah fair enough :-) One thing I forgot to mention: I try not to use the computer too much hence I try to avoid the DAW option. In the future I might not exclude it but for the moment I try to "survive without DAW" :-)

I have soon for sales a Behringer 16 channel mixer, nice small and cheap, interested? ;-) Just teasing! Kind regards, Garfield.

Lol, no worries.

Thought I'd mention it though, as in the last 18 months or so I learned a good workflow for DAW mixing with a modest sized mixing controller. I have yet to see a project that I couldn't get to work well with 10 or less groups (stems) and 10 or less channels per group; that means a session with up to 100 tracks can be handled efficiently on small format mixer (in this case, with 10 channels). This has worked out well for me lately, and I thought was worth passing along! Hybrid / stem mixing is pretty slick!

But if I had space and $ and priority for a larger format mixing desk, would I want one? Yeah probably : )

Hi Lugia and Nickgreenberg,

Lugia: Dewey setup that can hold 2 1/2 TONS per unit. It ain't goin' NOWHERE! --> ha, ha, yeah good one, nobody is walking away with a 200 kg mixer, you don't need to worry about it get stolen or something like that! :-)

Thanks a lot for the BenchPro link, pretty interesting stuff available there!

I don't know how you do it but you just had a look at it and found already here in Germany an Allen & Heath - ML 3000 for me; great! :-)

As I mentioned I have a rather modern house and that's not always a benefit, yes it's good insulated so in the winter you don't need much heating and bla, bla, bla, but the bad thing of modern houses within a reasonable pricing region is that the house and its allocated rooms are pretty small... :-( What I am trying to say is, at my current location in the attic my studio shares my working space and that means there is not much space left. I am thinking of somehow create some space but no matter what I can come up with, I would never have decent (!) space enough for such a beautiful mixer... so I am afraid I need to look more at a modern mixer that's compacter and that's with a digital (smaller) mixer easier to realise.

Having that all said... If now these ML3000s and Five series are available at "dump prices" so to speak... how many years do I need to wait before an Allen & Heath - dLive S7000 or a Soundcraft - Vi7000 becomes available in that reasonable priced region? Both are beautiful modern mixers, bit smaller than their older analogue brothers but unaffordable to me for the moment ;-) Just nice to dream about them. So when would these "digital beasts" be affordable in 10 years time (perhaps that's something I can wait for) or would that take longer? :-(

Nickgreenberg: Well, at least for me, isn't it allowed to dream a bit ahead of what is affordable either price-wise or weight-wise or size-wise? At least the latter two are an issue for my current house and non-available space ;-)

You asked: Do you want / need a ton of analog mix channels? Well, that's actually the point I guess... Do I need it ... no most probably not... do I want it ... most probably yes! :-)

On the other hand, you know the "drill" and motto here of this modulargrid.net website, right? You never can have enough VCAs! In that same pattern, at least in my opinion, you never can have enough inputs and outputs on a mixer (or on any device)...

It's the same for a Eurorack, it can never be too big, it only can be too small ;-)

Both: He, he, funny and nice discussion and I hope you allow me to dream a bit ;-) Thank you and kind regards, Garfield.

@troux - couldn't agree more regarding small focussed cases - especially when they're pulled out of larger cases - but as starter modulars I'm not convinced they are a great idea at all
-- JimHowell1970

Agreed on the starter point for sure @JimHowell1970.

@Traxy

all great reasons to go for a tiny case in you situation - although I am with troux on 62 hp probably being a better fit

tbh based on what you have said - I would not bother with the pod at all - I would just take stuff out of the nifty case make or buy some blind panels (cereal box cardboard is fine) and see if that helps - add the modules that you need to do your minimal generative setup and put the case money to one side - either towards a smaller case or a mantis in the future

this way you could just buy a quad cascading vca (if you don't already have one) I like veils for a multitude of reasons - and use that as a mono output module - that way you can explore what you can do with the O & C - with a bit more space - which may make it a bit more playable

I think it really depends on why you find it unplayable now? uncontrollable or un-ergonomic or too complicated

maybe share the nifty?

troux makes a very good point here, as does Jim...the idea of building a "generative" system in 42 hp is VERY impractical. Having done work with those methods since...ah, crap, I dunno HOW long...I think I can safely say that you'll be lucky if you can get it to behave like a basic off-the-shelf monosynth. And while you apparently have other modular gear to interface this with, the idea that you can use only this live for generative ambient work in of itself is a pretty big stretch of the imagination.

20 more hp here would make more sense. 166 more hp would make a LOT of sense. You'll need it for the various modulation sources, control modules (comparators, anyone?), submixers, etc etc etc to arrive at a truly generative result. In fact, of all of the various modular paradigms, generative tends to require the size and diverse modular complements to be as MAXIMAL as possible, at least if you're trying to realize a schema that has multiple channels (as in an installation work), consists of a few different "lines" in front along with a "background" layer, and has a diverse palette of sounds that it can generate.

But here's how you can see how this'll work: build this 42 hp thing, and patch it up and let it run. If, after an hour, you've been driven insane by the limited sound palette and want to kick the skiff across the room at that point, DO SO. Then build a real generative setup.

Hi TumeniKnobs,

Oh this is fantastic, you are not only making great music, you "deliver a great music service" as well, meaning you updated it! :-) Superb!

The birds sound now even nicer, clearer, all-in-all it sounds as if you got your mix in pretty nice shape now, beautifully done!

Your birds sound really lovely, nice singing tones really. I got at the side of my house regularly meetings held by 50 or 100 sparrows (and sparrows only), making tons of noise but whatever they discuss during their meetings, it's not that nice singing concert stuff your birds are capable of! :-)

Beautiful and thank you very much! Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi TL,

Sounds to me that there is something rotten in the state of Denmark ;-)

Good luck with the troubleshooting and kind regards, Garfield.

@troux - couldn't agree more regarding small focussed cases - especially when they're pulled out of larger cases - but as starter modulars I'm not convinced they are a great idea at all

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 23:07

Lugia, Sacguy71, how many channels are you needing to handle for recording / mixing?

Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm surprised to see a discussion of large-format desks. My understanding was these are really only called for in large / professional studios.

I took some good mix & mastering certificate training recently. Everybody involved (myself, the teacher-engineer, and the other students) were all basically using "hybrid" (digital + analogue) rigs consisting of: DAW of choice, interface of choice, select external hardware (incl. analog summing for me) and select control surfaces. RE control surfaces, for me a Softube Console1 and Faderport1 work great: good build quality and hands on control, great DAW integration, enough channels (especially by setting up with stem or group mixing).

So I'm surprised you would opt for a big console vs. a hybrid setup. Am I totally not understanding your intended use case(s)? Do you want / need a ton of analog mix channels?

That said, IF I saw a desk like Lugia found, with big functionality, pedigree and in great condition, and IF I had the space for it and wasn't concerned about the huge weight (which I am), then I would be tempted to get one!

Thought I'd ask about your mixing use cases and suggest a "hybrid" mix setup for those with smaller space / budget etc.

I checked the other half too before posting!
your hopes are unfounded Lugia!

hi all,

this is my actual physical rack - 5 cases - plus a case I need to build - to hold the DIY backlog and some other modules I want - really only needs power before I build it - I'm ordering the power this week!

over time modules have more or less been added wherever was free or where they got the best power (video modules) and it's a bit of a mess so as I add the 6th case, it feels like time to rearrange it

I'm not looking to add any more modules or swap out anything at all at the moment - although I can always see applications for more utilities, envelope generators and video modules, maybe even a couple more filters (I can fill the next case too) - so whilst suggestions are welcome this thread is primarily about re-arrangement

If any one who can is up for the challenge, please have a go at rearranging

a bit of further explanation (it might help)

the black blind panels and big gaps etc are meant to divide it into the 5 soon to be 6 actual physical racks that I have

upside down modules are either DIY backlog (mutable, blue lantern, synthonie) or to be purchased over the next few months (magneto, chromagnon, crossfader, deckard's voice, optomix, doepfer matrix mixer) - but for the purposes of this can be taken as in the case

the left 2 racks are 9u/104hp DIY case and a mantis - they are primarily video modules with a few analog utilities

the middle 2 racks are a 9u/104hp DIY case and a 6u/72hp bastl case - the bastl case will serve as an audio pull out - so this could be built as a separate instrument - hence the tm/tune/mixer with headphones etc

the right 2 racks are both 9u/84hp DIY - one of these rack is not built yet - but will be soon!

actual case arrangement is similar although the 2 84hp cases will be side by side, instead of on top of one another

the 84hp racks are in front of the tv and the other racks are to the left, the top 2 are on guitar stands

there is some scope to move the cases about a bit - I'm thinking of swapping the left and middle cases around - but then it would be mean that patching the audio modules over the video case - I could try to move the video modules to the 84hp cases but I've not looked into that for power reasons - I don't think there are any easy/optimum solutions:

for example a lot of the issues could be solved easily by having the 2 of the 9u case horizontally in front of the other 9u (where the 6u are now), but then I think it would be difficult to reach the ones on the guitar stands - and I would probably have to kneel - these cases are on the floor - but it would mean that a lot of the video modules would be straight in front of the TV

all the DIY cases have a befaco excalibus 1.2A +/-ve 12v (not sure what 5V is but overall 5v is negligible) the 104hp also have a frequency central psu in them, which is a further 500mA on +/-ve 12v rails

mantis is 3A +ve, 1.1A(?) -ve and something on the 5v

the bastl is 1.5A +ve, 0,5A -ve and I think it also has some 5v

modules that are in the video path are constrained to the mantis and the befaco power supplies (which seem clean enough)

chromagnon is to be powered externally and may get moved outside the case in the future (as it has it's own case - like a mom32) but it is better in the rack if possible

TL/DR

here is my audio/video modular - it is messy and needs re-arranging - please re-arrange, offer suggestions etc as you see fit - I think I need more envelope generators, utilities and video modules - but that is for sometime in the future

Jim's spot-on. The other half of this build had better be stuffed with nothing but mixers, attenuverters, VCAs, timing modules, etc etc etc...otherwise, all you're making here is a VERY expensive noisemaker, certainly NOT a musical instrument.

I'm a fan of small focused cases, knowing the limitations. Looking at yours it's hard to argue with some attenuators but I can see a few other routes too:

1) add a 2HP Clock Divider and a 2HP Sample and Hold, this lets you add changes that sustain over longer durations and that add a bit of structure if they are impactful enough
2) add a filter of some sort that fits in 4HP, IMHO filters are close to the funnest part of eurorack and a good analog filter always sounds great with a digital oscillator
3) pivot and get a 62HP Intellijel palette, more expensive but the extra HP would go a long way here and you could do all of the above, including attenuators pretty easily.

Listening now, great stuff as always @mowse.

Hi Jim, thank you for your in-depth thoughts!

So, first of all yes, I already own some of those! I own the Plaits, the O&C and the Monsoon. At the moment I have a 84hp 3U cre8audio Nifty Case, but it's almost full and hopefully I'm gonna upgrade it to a nice 104hp 6U Tiptop Mantis case very soon!
So, why the Pico Case? Well... it's mainly for "organisational" reasons with my other gear. I make ambient music and I'm really happy with my Synthstrom Deluge as the core for my system... modular is also nice for ambient sounds, but I find it a bit unplayable in a live situation. I use my modular to sample sounds and then I arrange them with my Deluge, or i prepare cassette loops... but I'm not really able to play it live, too many cables and patching, it's very unpredictable, requires tuning and you never really get the same results.

So, since I still love eurorack and I like to keep things minimal, I decided to make a really small system with a limited range of features I can easily tweak live. I got some really cool results modulating Plaits' harmonic in chord mode and Monsoon's pitch and density with my Marbles, so it's something I already kind of tried... I planned this system with the idea of creating some easy-to-make generative polyphonic ambience while I play my Deluge and the other stuff.

So the modules I was planning to get are the Doepfer LFO and the utilities (which are missing in my bigger case too haha). I thought that having 4 LFOs could be nice to make slow, constant variations on Plaits and Clouds with the off-phase thing. Marbles is a bit too on the "step" side, and it's also bigger. But maybe the Doepfer one is too limited, and I shoud consider something more complex... Batumi maybe?

I totally overlooked the VCA depth!! Haha sorry for this, usually I'm very careful to depth and power specs when I plan my racks XD
So I could remove it and put in something like the ALM Tangle Quartet! Four VCAs in 8hp, it fits perfectly, and I would also get the two additional VCAs.

O&C - yes, I was thinking of installing the Hemispheres for that exact reason! To use it more like a swiss army module than a quantizer on steroids. But - speaking of playability - it could be the wrong choice here (lots of menu diving).
I'll take a look at the 2hp modules you suggested me! Somehow I have to rearrange this.

Thank you so much!

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 20:18

way way too many sound generators not enough of anything and everything else

imo

sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

with at least 20% of the case for modulation and 30% for utilities

is always going to get better and more interesting results than anything else

in smaller cases probably even more utilities are actually needed (and are almost never there)

there are reasons why we usually suggest 1 voice per row, not 5!!!

please read the first post of this thread (on muffwiggler) https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=245154

EDITED Mar 9th 2021, 19:22