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Will get that fixed @JimHowell1970.
-- troux

& well done everyone - not listened to everything all the way through yet - will do soon!!!

EDITED Feb 8th 2022, 19:31

yes you can you'd just need to have all sequenced notes starting above the threshold on the comparator and gaps between all sequenced notes with voltages below the threshold - it's a workaround and may not be optimal - but it would work

-- JimHowell1970

Throw in an offset and I think you'd be fine with the comparator. Example: Befaco Dual Attenuverter.

-- Ronin1973

I'm not convinced - but it might be possible - how would you patch it?

yes you can you'd just need to have all sequenced notes starting above the threshold on the comparator and gaps between all sequenced notes with voltages below the threshold - it's a workaround and may not be optimal - but it would work

-- JimHowell1970

Throw in an offset and I think you'd be fine with the comparator. Example: Befaco Dual Attenuverter.

I have read some comparator manuals and I do not think that the output from my sequencer can be used for creating trigger pulses, but I can be wrong.
With the linked picture I try to explain.
https://tinyurl.com/v8sz54g
Fig. 1 shows the output from my sequencer and fig.2 shows how I think the output must look like for creating comparator triggers.
-- Rookie

yes you can you'd just need to have all sequenced notes starting above the threshold on the comparator and gaps between all sequenced notes with voltages below the threshold - it's a workaround and may not be optimal - but it would work

Thanks Jim!
-- GarfieldModular

I'm looking for possible building blocks, which provides useful functions for larger racks.
VCOs, filters, effects and so on may be placed around these building blocks ...

I'm on the way to make a bigger studio eurorack, not for life performance.

-- rama1065

then start with a much bigger rack and try to think along the lines set out in my signature

I don't see a lot of what I would call basic building blocks of modular synthesis in the above racks

I see more 'synthesis with modules' as opposed to 'modular synthesis'

just to qualify the above (slightly)

I started of in modular because about 7 years ago* I was staring at my moogerfoogers and cp251 and realised that they were effectively part of a modular synthesizer - so I started researching modular synthesizers - about 2 years later I started building one

*this was over 30 years after first picking up a guitar and 20 years since I got into synthesizers/music production - although there have been a few gaps due to life!

EDITED Feb 8th 2022, 19:06

Hi toodee,

thanks for you input.
Yes, perhaps the question is too generic, I understand.

I'm on the way to make a bigger studio eurorack, not for life performance.
Thanks!

btw. yes, satelitte can be used stand alone. But you need a control forge in order to create own modulations.
-- rama1065

Cool, sounds like an interesting project :-)
And then by all means, do follow the advice given by our friendly Lugia and post the current state of your project to a new thread and get specific advice for your needs, making clear what you already have and how you use it, as well as what you hope to achieve moving forward. Then you can use that advice for more focused research, keeping in mind that it's almost always better to think in terms of function rather than specific modules IMHO.
Looking forward to read that future discussion (and learn from it, of course) !

Take care,
D

firstly I would go for a bigger case - it may save you buying a second case and therefore money in the mid-long term... the best bang for buck starter cases are either tiptop mantis or doepfer lc9 - if you are intending on more digital modules then I would recommend the mantis more (and it is more portable, if that's an issue) - however both are probably the best combinations of hp/cost/good power supplies from respectable manufacturers available

otherwise it's kind of an ok start, depending on what instruments you are thinking of processing...

if all you really want is some filtering and granular processing - I would seriously consider (ie spend a month or 2 thinking about it) whether you really want to go modular or whether a few effects pedals will suit you better - they will almost definitely be a less expensive solution

your starting idea of an input module with envelope follower and a sound processor is good (but see below)

if your sound sources are stereo then a second ears or similar module (pre-amp with envelope follower built in) is a good idea - mostly so that you can extract the envelope shape of both the L & R channels for use in modulation, rather than just one

if your sound source is mono, for example a guitar, then I would strongly advise the addition of an expression pedal interface (examples are available from ADDAC, Doepfer and 7 dials) to enable you to play the guitar (for example) and still control your effects - in fact you may want more of these - otherwise you would probably be better off with more effects pedals - a wah pedal instead of the filter and I'm sure there are granular synthesizers in pedal form these days

as for your module choice:

ears - owners seem to like it so it appears to be a good choice although I've never used one - I have a doepfer a-119 instrument interface module - which adds a comparator (a gate opens when the input signal excedes a set voltage) and adds grit, shall we say - and is slightly cheaper - there is also a chip swap (no soldering required) that can be done to reduce the grit but I have never felt the need - furthermore the gate output can be extremely useful as a replacement for or alongside a master clock - nb a lot of modules need steady clocks to operate properly - Pams doesn't work well for example, nor any modules that multiply clocks - dividers and modules that provide triggered lfos or envelopes tend to work much better

maths - great module - although I always recommend both downloading the 'maths illustrated supplement' and working your way through it AND replicating it's basic functionality in dedicated modules - maths is much greater than the sum of it's parts - and you will need those parts separately as well to allow you to use maths to it's full potential (which points us back to the illustrated supplement)

humpback - this is a DIY module - I don't know if you can buy built ones, I've never seen them - are you skilled and do you have the tools to build it? if not I would consider an already built filter - doepfer make a great selection of reasonably priced ones - based mainly on classic designs - or there are many more available at differing price points - if however, you intend to buy a soldering iron and build this - I would also suggest building some simpler modules to start with - a passive mult, an attenuator (thonk atatat) and some of the AI Synthesis range would make the learning curve easier and less frustrating for you - again you may find you want 2 filters or a stereo filter instead of this

clouds - are you intending on trying to find one used? or a clone? it has been discontinued for a few years and has been replaced in the mutable line up with beads - I would spend some time considering this - read reviews/watch youtube videos of beads etc - mutable support is fantastic, but understandably stops at 3rd party clones - most of which push it into poor ergonomics territory (eurrorack is already very small without miniaturization of modules) - supercell is a larger cloen with a few extra additions and may be worth a look

the vca - ok but personally I would replace it with a veils - it will initially work as a mixer too, but I think that you'll want more mixing - and particularly something that can handle stereo output (see erde-verbe section below)

erde verbe - great reverb for emulating 'weird spaces', but not a particularly good general purpose reverb - takes a mono signal and outputs a stereo signal - you may really want a stereo to stereo (to add more reverb to clouds) or a mono reverb (depending on the requirements of your output - stereo/mono)

Pams - hmm - not really a function generator as you described it - it's more of a master clock, clock divider/multiplier with some synced envelope generation/lfos - whereas function generators generally apply mathematical functions, such as slew to incoming signals and extract events from these signals - so in some ways similar to a function generator, but not really - note it's heavily synced to it's clock (internal or external) which may not suit you depending on how you intend to use the rack and how accurate your timing is with your instrument - I'm human and so a bit sloppy at the best of times - which can be both a good thing and a bad thing, depending on your point of view and what you are trying to do!

further effects processing modules - more filters - and I would look seriously at the happy nerding fx aid xl - very versatile - I would make this an early purchase as it can be used as a filter - as well as reverb, delay, lofi etc - if I was designing an effects processing rack I'd probably include 3 of these due to their versatility

utilities - you'll almost definitely want more utilities - seemingly dull inexpensive modules that appear to do nothing to alter the sound (they are the dull inexpensive polish that makes the expensive shiny modules actually shine) - they are incredibly useful for not only improving the patching possibilities - but also for solving problems - like (auto-) panning a mono signal into a stereo space, or switching between multiple inputs into a single output or vice versa, or reducing the amount of modulation that is sent to an input (especially useful with clouds - it's modulation inputs really need attenuators! I usually recommend a great utilitiy starter set of mutable links, kinks, shades and veils - or modules that cover their various functionalities - wmd/ssf toolbox and happy nerding 3*mia make good substitutes for some of these funcionalities

mixing - seriously consider how you will mix mono & stereo audio signals together and which modules have mono/stereo inputs and mono/stereo outputs - and the possibility of parallel processing - you will almost definitely need multiple mixers - some for sub mixing, one for end of chain mixing and some for mixing modulation sources - some of which should be voltage controlled - and this is on top of what you already have in the rack - I'd definitely recommend a matrix mixer - both for mixing modulation sources and for

moogerfooger - luckily these are some pedals that really don't need an effects pedal interface to reduce the signal down to guitar level and bring it back up to modular level and correct any impedance issues - I have 3 of them and have used them quite a lot with my modular - a lot of other pedals really need the interface to work properly

Hi toodee,

thanks for you input.
Yes, perhaps the question is too generic, I understand.

I'm on the way to make a bigger studio eurorack, not for life performance.
Thanks!

btw. yes, satelitte can be used stand alone. But you need a control forge in order to create own modulations.

EDITED Feb 8th 2022, 18:33

@Lugia: thank’s for these precisions, we can indeed travel very far in time and space.
By the way, originally, we all have an old relative called 'Homo habilis' who lived in Tanzania 2 million years ago. Under the milky lights of full moon nights, he probably sang strange and wonderful kind of drones, like 'plainsongs' mingling with those of other animals in the plain. (Etymologically, 'plain' comes from the Latin 'planus' which can be found in 'cantus planus', in French 'plain-chant'). Today, I think that we don’t do anything else with our drones: we still question ‘The Great Mystery’...
For my part, I prefer to focus on the History of Western music; starting with the Gothic Period, it's already a long way :)

@troux : thanks, I'll read it with pleasure.

Can the Rossum Satellite be used on its own ? I was under the impression that although it could be used without a Control Forge after presets are transfered, one would need the Control Forge to create at least one batch of presets, right ?

And with regards to the question at hand, I think it's really hard to come up with something generic because, well, it's modular, we all have different ways to patch and different needs.
For example, it's very likely that we would end up with at least one of the main cascading quad VCA, Intellijel or MI for example, but which one ? Some will prefer sliders and the slightly smaller footprint, some will prefer the Intellijel for the cascading CV or the boost switch, some like me will not be able to decide and grab both, there is no right or wrong there, so which one would you include in a generic build and how to indicate this can be replaced by X or Y or Z depending on the user's exact needs without that discussion turning into a book like Patch & Tweak ?
So it's a question of which functions rather than which module, right ? But which functions indeed ? It depends on what you'd want to interact with the rack, which is also very subjective. Live tweaking or pre-programming ? Modulating more with gates or LFO or random or agnostic ? straight clocks or shuffly wobbly ? Like menus or hate 'em ? Depending on the answers one is probably looking at different type/classes of modules.
I feel like this discussion, if it were to remain generic enough, would end up looking exactly like Jim's signature:

Utility modules are the inexpensive, dull polish that makes the expensive, shiny modules actually shine!!!
sound sources < sound modifiers < modulation sources < utilities

And even then, I may put an equal sign between "modulation sources" and "utilities" because that's the balance I like to have at hand. The best advice that can be offered to newcomers, IMO, is not really about what to buy:
1. RTFM & Research
2. Buy slow (ok this one maybe)
3. Plan bigger
4. Experiment & Explore

Nice comm and transaction with @freespace
Danke Kai !

Hello!

So I'm new to Eurorack although experienced with synthesis and processing.

This is what I was thinking of building for my first true foray into modular.

I plan to use the rack mainly as an audio processing device. I predominantly see it as a way of augmenting instruments - expanding the instruments' capabilities with reference to both the sounds they produce and the way that they are played. However I also want to build a rack which can be used as a processing tool in the studio.

Any thoughts on the modules I've chosen? Any suggestions?

I think I'll start by purchasing Ears and Clouds and go from there (need to save a bit!) - I've already got an SQ-1 and a Moog Mf-103 which I'll integrate with the rack. I'd eventually like to add a pamela's workout as another function generator and another module for signal processing; I was thinking something along the lines of Erbe-Verb - although this is a decision for which I could use some suggestions!

Thanks, already feeling very welcome in the modular community :)

EDITED Feb 10th 2022, 17:58

Thanks Lugia for your input.
btw. each row was to be meant as a building block, which stands for itself - not all three together.

Perhaps I should have better asked, which modules (LFO, EG, Mult, Atten., VCAs, CV generators) would you like to combine in 100 hp order to get a flexible, versatile and the most universally usable combination.

EDITED Feb 8th 2022, 16:42

For what is worth, I found out that feeding a pitch cv signal to a module like Befaco Rampage, or any other module that can generate a slew, and that can output gates of "Rising" and "Falling", generates very useful gates, whose period duration can be adjusted by fiddling the Rise and Fall time parameters of the slew processor.

In addition, I can send the gates of Rising and Falling to either a cv mixer or a logic OR module, to have gates for every pitch change.

A consideration about quantizers: some of them output "full gates", meaning that the gates last the entire duration of a new pitch, (basically like a midi note-on), and with those I lose the Release phase of any ADSR. This is why I prefer having control over the duration of the gates, independently.

Many thanks troux for taking the time and putting the collection together and to Greenleo for the assist! Much appreciated.

Applause to all the contributors—I listened trough when it was first posted, lot's of inspiration across genres. Nice work!

All the best.

Arrived yesterday evening! Now the fun begins ....

I have for sale modular addict stack and thin patch cables. Thin ones are perfect for dense modules where you want to be able to somehow put fingers between your cables to plug them in/out. Stackables are great as they save you form using passive mults.

Yeah. Fiiking brilliante. Instant fan base. Hoo!

Chomp chomp, chomp, more hunger. Yow. Me.

KALAMITY MOOFUH!!!

Mr. Kane

EDITED Feb 8th 2022, 11:40

The title! ❤️

And the melodic barn sale… Luv luv luv it.

High rankin’. Bennn skoop!

I JITSU!

EDITED Feb 8th 2022, 11:25

Love it! Brilliant.
Gives Chrome, ACR, and 23 Skidoo a run for their money!
Skoop!!!

None of them.

First up, when building a full system, working in "blocks" like this is going to result in a system that doesn't reflect your actual signal flow. It's best to group things by function than by what can be stuck together in these blocks. For example, if you've got something in there that could benefit from having a quadrature LFO (like "strumming" a Veils), well...since you've got these blocks but they don't have a quadrature oscillator with the exception of the Batumi/Poti pair...but at that point, you're using ALL FOUR LFOs in that to do what ONE module that's not in these is capable of. And that's just one example.

Secondly...what's with all of the buffered mults? You really only need these for distributing CVs to oscillators, filters, and other modules that need a CV without voltage sag. The sag results from having too many devices on the same CV source, so you use buffers to "regenerate" the CV. But you DON'T need six of them! In a small build, in fact, using 24 hp on JUST mults is a terrible idea; small builds are better served with inline mult widgets or stackcables, and if you have more than four modules that need properly-scaled CVs, THAT would be the only reason for using only ONE of those.

A far better approach here to building on MG would be to start with a fullsize cab that's larger than you need, populate that, then start paring things BACK. But work on the whole thing at the same time, not in chunks like these. Start with a 3 x 104 cab, then once it's populated, pare this down so that you wind up with TWO rows of 104 hp. It's 100% doable, and generally results in outcomes that are more usable.

If you're coming from a background that has a lot of "semi-modular" patchables or keyboard synths, I can see how this concept emerged. Keyboard synths are, after all, built in "blocks" like that. But this ain't your dad's Joop-6 here...this is an "open environment" that, while grouping modules will be a must, blocking out everything BEFORE the full build process is on just won't work out very nicely if one of these blocks can't "play nice" with the others.

First up, Braids is long-discontinued. Plaits is the official replacement from Mutable, but you can get Braids clones, although the "miniaturized" clones are often a total PITA to program, with tiny controls and tight spacing.

Second...yep, you get it. That Neutron should be back in its own case and on its own power. The case is for things that DON'T have those.

Third: this is a fairly small build. So trying to populate this with large modules will cause you to LOSE potential, as you'll not have space for various utility and "helper" modules that need to be in there. About the only "big" thing that should be in there would be the Maths; the rest can and SHOULD be removed and smaller alternatives (WITHIN REASON! don't go so small that you can't get at the controls when you need to) found that can do the same job.

Fourth (and related to the third part above): do you HAVE TO sequence from the Hermod, or would you be better off sequencing from your DAW and using something like Expert Sleepers' "soundcard" modules to send/return both control signals AND audio? Again, the Hermod is huge, but those ES modules are not. Same probably goes for the System 100m mixer, plus you can get similar stereo output mixers with ALL parameters under CV that can fit into a slightly smaller cab. See Toppobrillo's Stereomix2 for one example.

Best rule of thumb here is that you should have about 1/3+ of your modules as part of an audio chain, and the rest of the space should be controllers, modifiers, modulators, etc etc. And getting that balance is important to drawing out the power in the audio chain. Too many "helpers", and the synth will sound rather "meh", and not enough "helpers" results in a different sort of "meh" from not having internal motion in your sounds. Trust me on that; you want to sound like Klaus or RJD or so on, and NOT a microwave beep.

Hi all, I did a live set in December in collaboration with BK Voltage Lab and really liked the patches and sections, so I decided to record every sequence of every individual voice signal path for the 30 minute set. Then I clipped each recording, made loops, and reassembled the whole thing. Thought I'd share it.

Hi,

I'm looking for possible building blocks, which provides useful functions for larger racks.
VCOs, filters, effects and so on may be placed around these building blocks ...

I've created three alternative versions (each in one seperate row).

Which one's would you use and why? What would you change? More VCA's or other things?

Thanks and best regards,
Ralf

Will get that fixed @JimHowell1970. @Quantum_Eraser I checked my email and I never got a WeTransfer from you. If you can send one over to the email I sent you here we can slot it in.
-- troux

Thats strange. Anyway. I've sent you a Private Message with the Download URL for the File.

Thanks for listening, gang. I appreciate the kind words. Haven't had much time to make music for a while, so it's good to just press record and get something out there.
It's funny, I've gotten Cabaret Voltaire comparisons before. Those guys are definitely a subconscious influence, for sure. I did record a cover of "Nag, Nag, Nag" for fun a while back, but don't really set out to intentionally make music that sounds like them, but a lot of what comes out in this Cierny Vlk project does bear a resemblance. I think a lot of the ideas are probably coming from the same place.
Thanks again. Have a great week.

Thank you very much for taking the time to share your expertise. I have learned a lot from your replies - and took me down a deep rabbit hole of researching all your recommendations :-)

I probably took the wrong route by buying a case then trying to cram in enough modules. But as you said eventually I'll expand :-)

I like your ideas of mixing and compressing off-case and will probably also incorporate an external sampler/looper. Would an external 1010Music Blackbox be appropriate (at least for sampling, looping, and mixing)?

Your advice regarding every hp of sound plan 2-4hp of helper modules is one I'll take to heart from here on out.

The breadth and depth of modular is really intimidating for someone new like myself - I really appreciate advice from vastly more experienced people like yourself.

Thank you once again!

Nice one @farkas, whenever you get that Ohio warehouse rave gig booked let me know I'm definitely coming 🕺🕺

Have you used that one @GarfieldModular? I'm definitely curious.

@Lugia I'm thinking I want something a bit more flexible, the L-1 compressors come to mind and I'm also curious about Vintage Synth Labs AWM-3

EDITED Feb 7th 2022, 03:53

@M01C and @JimHowell1970 changes made! And thank you @GarfieldModular, happy to give a bit back here for all the great folks who've helped me along on my journey :)

@Sweelinck, you're talking Conrad's language for sure. If you're interested check some thoughts out here http://media.hyperreal.org/zines/est/intervs/conrad.html

Wrapping up an outstanding weekend with an adhoc jam session on the Moog stack.

Some technical bits...

Two Mother 32's are run through Mimeophon and Desmodus Versio. DFAM provides the kick. These days, I am doing all stereo balancing, eq, and compression in-modular with SoundStage, SCLPL, and MSCL. Audio is crammed right into YouTube by a Scarlett 4i4.

Hope you enjoy it!

Are there any kinds of disadvantages to smaller modules? I’m probably being a bit gluttonous, but in my filter section I’d like to have a little taste of a couple different filters, so I’ve found an assortment that fits my needs. Curious if someone would think that 1 18hp filter would be a better move than 3 6hp filters. Just a thought. Probably will stick with the smaller filters cause they still sound great. But like is there a different kind of power/goodness in the ajh 14hp vcf vs 6hp transistor ladder filter.

Also any thoughts on the rack, areangement always appreciated. I use this alongside ableton and a sampler/drum machine to make house music. Modular is mostly for stabs/bass/leads.

Oh, HELL yes!!! If Cabaret Voltaire had turned out to be a junglist group, it might sound something like this!

@troux, @Lugia
Decidedly, since the bids rise easily here, I will claim in my turn that, in the Western world, the 'drone' was born with the plainsong, in the sacred music, in the Middle Ages.

-- Sweelinck

But then, you have to take into account that Plainchant descends directly from the Grecian Modes. And with those, musicology isn't 100% certain of the lineage. Then you go backwards from there, across other Eastern Mediterranean region people, whose tunings and scales were somewhat more complex...and still are. But also, taking Alexander's conquest travels into account, we're probably looking at some sort of "polyglot approach" to encountered scalar, etc techniques, and those certainly got mixed in with the rest of the goings-on in that area.

But MY big point is that, if you go back to the point where music as we currently know it originated, you're dealing with the Central Asian region, and that back around 5000-7000 BCE their musical elements migrated with various peoples into these different sonic cultures. And back then and back there, the drone was PARAMOUNT. Entire musical styles emerged, with the best known of them being the Mongolian and Tuvan cultures where the drone is also important to the generated harmonic pitches that result in throat singing, which is where I and others think this starts. Given that the harmonic series' first several partials fit Western tunings, it would also explain early instruments that seem to be "close" to present-day tuning, so that these could match up with the harmonic pitches. It's also the source for Tibetan ceremonial music, the drone aspects of Persian and Northern Indian music, and on and on.

Thanks Jim!

Hi Troux,

The Waldorf CMP1 might be an idea, it's currently on offer. Waldorf stopped making modular modules, so if you are interested then better don't wait too long. Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Steve,

Thank you very much for all the work, making the compilation and I love the album cover with the modulargrid cat at the background looking through the window!

I am listening now and enjoying the music we made together in 2021 :-)

Great work and a big thank you, kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Everybody,
Trying to get started with a modular setup for generative/ randomised music and general sound design.
The neutron is eating up space at the moment, but just wondering what you all think of this setup I am thinking of moving towards.
I'd probably replace the neutron with things like a Zoia Eurburo, Winterbloom Castor & Pollux & Morphagene.
I definitely need some focused feedback though....

One other module to consider is the Happy Nerding FX Aid, which has several compressor and limiter algorithms.

I totally agree with @sweelinck :)

Excellent! Fierce and combative. Thanks for having shared this track here ;)

Lots O'Bleeps :)

Glitchy goodness, I need to try more stuff like this, almost self-playing as Marbles is in control until i plug in the clock outs from Mimeophon which then takes care of the clocking. More madness comes from live patching Clouds from the 2hp RND :)
There are some clocked parts in there but i turn those off as its running the stepped filtered bass part.

@troux, @Lugia
Decidedly, since the bids rise easily here, I will claim in my turn that, in the Western world, the 'drone' was born with the plainsong, in the sacred music, in the Middle Ages. And that it finds its own roots in the psalms of the synagogues, then at the birth of the Christian era. This spiritual or mystical 'sap' is the very essence of 'drone': from the origins to our days (cf. Radigue, La Monte, etc.).
It is a sacred music, not profane.
Who says better ? :)
Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva ?
Not so bad... :))

And don't forget the WMD MSCL...excellent stereo comp/limiter. The controls could be a little more user-friendly, but the results are worth the hassle.

I can't let a LaMonte mention go by without saying, Tony Conrad did it first and did it better!!
-- troux

Tony Conrad was probably instrumental in keeping La Monte's initial (ie: post-Darmstadt) ideas going, tbh. For one thing, some of the Theatre of Eternal Music releases in recent years (such as "Day of Niagara") were out of his tape library. Plus, La Monte was also engaged in certain...ah..."substance sales" off and on during the 1960s.

Also, speaking of Darmstadt, that same early 1960s course of Stockhausen's was attended by one Holger Schuring...but you know him better as Holger Czukay. Interesting, indeed!

Yep...it's always the simple bits that screw up production. I used to make my own cables years ago, but given the present-day state of the studio, I've had to put my trust in others peoples' solder work.