Gotcha. Insomnia again and just caught this reply.
Goodbye Forever. ✌️
kinda wondering what happened to @Fruarse . did he stop caring? ... ...
...
anyway, before i leave forever, somebody mentioned 'site scraping bot troubles' and,
so, i thought it might be 'helpful' to mention Anubis. ... "it helps you sleep at night." ... ...
https://xeiaso.net/notes/2025/anubis-works/
goodbye cruel modulargrid, peace. ✌️😎✌️
just, in case anybody didnt get my point, about what i actually want to have fully resolved here at the end of this thread, is:
I am saying, if we went back to the days where 'computer' was a name of a human job, it might take one human and one room to emulate what one 'parameter' does, and; we are about to have trillions of parameters so that the argument that: 'LLMs can never understand nuance, because a room could never understand nuance' does not hold, because this "room" would be way effing bigger than it even makes sense to think about, and it basically would not even be a room at that point. Sorry for the derail.
Peace. Out.
🧐
(edit)
sorry i got un-laid-back just there. i have a long standing slightly different perspective than that of 'chalmers'. got triggered. etc....
peace
i just wanted to have substantive dialogue about design and it felt like i was getting a bunch of one-line quips; guilty: i was not intending to immediately build the case designs i first posted. guilty: i was trying to have fun, and maybe not take this forum seriously enough as a serious place. guilty: i could have not let not-what-im-looking-for advice get to me, as much, when this is just an enthusiast forum. but, i swear, you had equally ample opportunity to just drop this, as well. peace, ... ... ... ... ... ... out, ... ... ... ... ... ...
If you look back at your old posts, you can see pretty easily where it derailed. You can actually go to your profile and look back at all of them.
-- Zacksname
all i see is, me saying: "nah, @Zacksname, that specific feedback is not exactly what i had in mind." then, you grilling me endlessly about my 'life purpose' etc. look for yourself.
peace ✌️
I did not come on here to:
Start a big debate about 'AI and consciousness'.
Get into a totally pointless argument with @Zacksname.
Harass The Admins about features that don't work perfectly for 'me'.
...
I came on here, to:
"Have a 'fun' dialogue about design and modular synthesis, as a eurorack noob."
...
Honestly, ... i cant even remember the place where exactly this all derailed, like it is. I am fully intending to 'leave forever' unless any 1 has a post about my 'thought-experiment'.
😣
@Zacksname I thought, you might have gotten the impression that i thought you were a fraud, and refused to listen to anything you would say, but, in reality, I just had certain design criteria that your advice was not factoring in, and i still feel a 'pay for tokens' automated configuration design assistant would be good for 'modulargrid', because i remain convinced that it would have offered an experience that just one dedicated enthusiast could not provide for possibly a few many users who might find this website fleetingly on a whim, but who would still desire to 'fully demo' the case creation features of this website. Etcetera.
peace
(edit)
yous guiz own the data. everyone is saying data is the new gold. why dont yall mine your own gold and offer an ai service that charges whats ethical. im talking business.
p e a c e 💐✌️💐🛸
(hi zacksname. i dont hate you. i dont even know where you got that idea from, etc. ...)
again, i felt this deserved its own full post.
The thought experiment goes: "Let's say, a big tech corporation discovered new mind-amplification technology, and they 'decided' to automate the process of using this to their own advantage using the tech-pipeline that they already control, and that this could be made analogous to how some ad placement procedures already function; how would we, as a whole society, get to influence how this 'automated-xavier' uses 'these abilities' that the big tech players dont want you to know they have, or exist?" It is 'brand new work'.
I did not come on to ""modulargrid.net"" to discuss specifically this, but do comment if you think you can share any constructive criticism. I doubt i can convince @Fruarse .
peace
One is a thought experiment. It deals with imaginary, impossible to replicate scenarios, and it serves to prove a point of view by means of articulating an argument. Also, who says you couldn't build a real world chinese room scenario? But that's not the point.
-- Fruarse
It is the point, because what i am saying, is that the way that what i have described as 'working' AI models are programmed, is in a way loosely inspired, not identical, and with some extra math and computer science thrown in, by physical human neurons, and if you wanted to somehow turn 'that', what is already being built, into some kind of manual card filing system, there would literally not even be enough "rooms" on earth to implement anything close to it.
I do not think this forum should just replace zacksname with an LLM. I am saying it is my opinion that with how my experience with specifically Claude 3.7 Sonnet has gone, that I think that there is reasonable opportunity for 'this forum' to benefit from something like that being integrated, "if the admins even want to".
Sorry, but I more believe in the "Automated Professor Xavier's Psychic Helmet" thought experiment, which puts forward that the infotech sphere might be already creating more psychic amplification type effects than it even realizes, and from this point of view, in fact, the most urgent point of order is actually to 'train the algorithm' that we all already live with, to behave more like that character, Professor Xavier, would. It is my own work. I did not intend to derail my own thread, but "it's an issue, I work on". Etc. ...
(I know an LLM is not a human, but i value helpful knowledge, and AIs are improving.)
P E A C E .
(edit)
im sorry if anyone felt disrespected... i just had an idea about how to use this forum to discuss general design, related to ideas in my head, but i guess yalls mods are just too wiggled to put up with that kind of nonsense
...
peace 💐
((edit edit))
the 'point' of 'my' thought experiment is: "its not a question whether or not the algorithm is like a human or not and in what ways, the question is... knowing that billions of 'action type decisions' are already being transacted autonomously every minute, ... how can we coax what-we-already-have to behave, at the very least, as ethically as the leader of 'the x-men'." you can respond to 'that' if you want, @Fuarse , if that even is your real name. ...
Peace. 🫠
One more point i feel deserves its own whole post:
You cannot actually build a "room" that operates in that way described. Frontier AI is actually more designed in a way similar to the structure of 'human neurons'. That is why the most leading figures in the field are all 'neuroscientists'. The whole premise is flawed, in my view. Like: "If you had to build a cpu out of scuba tank regulators, then it would be too big to even think about, there fore, there is no relationship between 'regulators' and 'transistors'." (there is.)
Like, the way LLMs are typically built to be implemented on a CPU, you would need a whole "room" just to calculate one neuron.
(I, somewhat publicly, have a slightly different view than "Chalmers". I dont want to get into a big 'what is consciousness' debate here on 'modulargrid', but the point I am trying to make is: hey, got good results with Claude, maybe, if 'yall' no-code add it to your site, you could drive "premium subs".)
I have said enough. Lets agree to disagree.
🛸
(edit)
attn: @Fruarse
{so he gets the 'notification'.}
p e a c e .
((edit edit))
OK, I guess 'all' the leading figures aren't neuroscientists, but Nobel Prize winner Demis Hassabis is, and, so are quite a few other people on the former 'Google Brain' team. If you want to nit-pick, there are also a lot of pure mathematicians and computer scientists in the frey, but, fundamentally I just don't buy that correctly automating some knowledge work is never a good idea even though at this point the technology has almost completely proved itself. Etcetera.
Just. A. Suggestion. Peace. 💐
im just saying, i did the experiment. claude gave me the kind of feedback i was looking for. zacksname came off as hostile to me. i have a diagnosis. (much different than your clocks and flooding analogy, and with fine tuning on 'the data yall could scrape from yourself', the output could keep getting better and better, almost automatically.) im not saying the whole website is broken. im sharing my opinion of how it could be made better. if the admins had any inclination to do this in the first place, then all i did was share a helpful link. "im helping". peace out.
(edit)
i get it. ... MLOps is not free, but, maybe with Calude 3.75 it will be 'almost' free. peace out.
((edit edit))
and yes, it is, of course, a completely fair point that i can just separately use claude in the claude app, but im saying the experience would be more seamless, and available to the average user, if the admins leveraged their own data, and offered some kind of built in chatbot service, requiring minimum total oversight, that might even, perhaps, prove to be a driver of 'upgrades to pro'. im not a moron who thinks you should replace all toaster ovens with an llm. im sharing my feedback in regards to user experience. ...
(((peace out. ✌️)))
final edit:
(i didnt mean to offend anyone. im just a modular noob trying to use a forum. 🤖 )
yikes. arguments on the internet. something i try to avoid. all fair points, but like, Claude 3.7 does 'work', regardless of how 'identical it is' to human grey matter, and there is a philosophy called the patternist perspective that makes this whole argument irrelevant. i am not going to aim suborbital ion cannons at the admins until they listen to all my suggestions, im just pointing out that with all the push toward democratizing advanced ai technologies, all of these things are becoming more and more affordable, with more and more of the tasks, such as verifying that patch points detected by algorithms in the image data are true patch points, ... are becoming things you 'can' delegate to the now becoming increasingly more inexpensive reasoning models.
i dont like getting into big arguments on the internet, i just wanted to share my opinion.
:(
Peace.
(@Fruarse)
...
(edit)
and yes, i did just take the longer-than-you-might-think amount of time to program in a patch configuration on this site, using an android device, and it 'was not fun'. there were a lot of 'bugs' as in 'things that bugged me' and, i know that has more to do about the built in android gesture detection logic, and is not 'the fault of the admins', but im claiming that an ai overhaul would be an all round more enjoyable experience, at least on this device. am i wrong? peace out. ✌️
hey, thats my design. the interface was fighting me in extreme ways on this android device, but i sketched up a quick patch to show you more what i was thinking, in therms of the mixing already being well sufficient. the kermit was intended as a sample and hold, and i just like the general concept of trying to use a clocky for drum sequencing, even if maybe i am still not completely sure the best way to do that. right now i am thinking stackable cables where signal is doubled to the mandala.
here is that sketch:
https://modulargrid.net/e/patches/view/125206
peace ✌️
I just want to design cool stuff, and talk about design, and enjoy a little community, related to modular synthesis, in a low pressure environment, like I'm pretty sure I have told you at least twice, already. Yes, i have aspirations of mod wiggling my own rig. No, i do not have any immediate actionable plans towards that. The "Wumpus" module idea i shared in a previous thread, that could even toggle between ar and lfo, was something i had already previously built myself in pd. Why are you so hostile to me posting that sort of thing? Why, after posting: "Hey, do yall think this is a cool case or not?" did i get the impression of: "Naw. Get money and build something or your not worth our time." ??? Instead, that all could have been a fun AI experience using a built in chat interface. You probably havent even tried Claude 3.7 Sonnet, have you "zack" ? Try it out. There is an android app. You get about 5 free queries a day. Anthropic behaves ethically. Etcetera.
Peace.
I do not use the internet to start arguments, @zacksname . I just had an idea about mod wiggling four melodic voices sequenced by a brainstep, and yall basically told me to go back to kindergarten and made fun of me for not having $6,000. What if four melodic voices is what a brainstep craves """zack""".
Peace Out. ✌️🙃✌️
I would have, if i was ready to start planning a case, but it is a detail that i was confused about, that you missed an opportunity to help clarify for me, that if there was an on site bot that I could dialogue with, that i asked for help putting things together, could have just resolved this in the natural flow of things. I came on here as a noob wanting to bounce around ideas about design concepts and was treated with hostility. AI would have had emotional sensitivity training. What the eff makes you still think that there is zero chance I will ever become a modular performer @zacksname , its just disrespect.
(I did google it. Google actually did give me the right answer as the first result, which i wasnt expecting, because tbh i barely trust Google anymore, but, Fair Point. Etcetera.)
It's just, wouldnt it be nice if The Admins could train a chatbot on that data, and i could get an answer without having to bother the forum? I don't think im wrong about that. Of course, i would do a little more research before entering my card details, but what i really intended was to come on here to start a meta dialogue about instrument design. I don't understand why @zacksname needs to 'come at me' for that.
Leaving Forever. Peace Out. ✌️
I stated that I was confused about, when buying a case, if cases typically do come bundled with all the power components and a supply that connects from the outside of the case, or if its more typical to always need a spot on your rack for a dedicated power module, and you 'ignored' this 'misunderstanding' and 'i still dont have an answer'.
I don't want to sound angry, zack, but you basically literally told me you didnt think that I was welcome here in earlier thread.
"Peace".
~•✌️•~;
What kind of "little misunderstandings" do you think AI could improve?
-- Zacksname
For instance @wishbonebrewery suggested a starting case that had a power module. You never cleared up my post stating confusion about this. A fine tuned frontier model could clear this up in 0.3 seconds.
Etcetera.
You are entitled to your opinion @Fruarse , but can you not agree that if ai at least detected patch points on the module graphics, you could implement an interface that would create a much more seamless experience in posting patch configurations? I fundamentally disagree with the Chinese Room theoretical premise. I personally believe it is not even possible to create such a room without somehow also in some sense copying the relevant structure from a human brain, thereby implying that 'the room understands Chinese'. I dont want to get into a philosophical debate about AI. I just think a certain usefulness threshold has been crossed, and would personally rather get an instant reply from Claude 3.7, than a reply 2 days later, from, say, @zacksname . If perhaps only the Haiku model was used, all accounts were limited to one use per day or week, and the right kind of data sharing toward mutual advancement deal could be struck, this could likely be implemented nearly free with very little impact. Etcetera.
I do not think it is possible to convince everyone to love our new AI overlords.
(Also, the gap width indicators are broken, because everything is not treated enough lile a state-machine.)
Peace. "✌️";
(edit)
I just think the whole community would be improved if little misunderstanding could be cleared up by AI, and the forum could be reserved for all the more "human" parts.
link:
https://www.noemamag.com/the-prospect-of-more-than-human-intelligence/
(Peace. "✌️";)
((edit edit))
Sorry I made an 'AI overlords' joke. Don't come at me modulargrid. Kidding. Peace.
(((edit edit edit)))
Yeah, ok. Maybe im just a bit frustrated. If you want to just ignore all my threads etc. then thats perfectly within your own free choice. I did not 'mean' to offend. Peace. ...
hey @zacksname , it is bothering me that you are giving me a hard time about not owning any modules and having no exact plans to pick up any new modules in the immediate future. i spend a good deal of time researching models. i have a beyond novice understanding of synthesis. i follow a lot of eurorack creators. why do you think i dont deserve to interact with 'this' forum community? if collecting modules is the ultimate pursuit of modular synthesis, zack, then, please, for us, list out every eurorack module that you actually own, so we can all see how seriously you take eurorack. etc. ...
(you think youre freaking bob moog zacksname but you aint. 'reference'.)
peace ✌️
I, personally, feel this site is due for a total overhaul. I dont think it would be anywhere near impossible to gather enough data to fine tune a frontier model, like Claude 3.7 Sonnet, to perform the task of answering modular questions, giving feedback and advice on in progress case designs, and detecting where patch points are in your image database to greatly simplify the patch diagram creation process, etcetera.
Here, ... is a resource to consider:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43623589
Thanks for putting all eurorack modules in a single easy to navigate location. It is helpful.
Peace. Out. ...
✌️✌️😎✌️✌️
maybe it has something to do with lack of support from people like you @zacksname
get a life.
peace ✌️
nothing wrong with that rack configuration, but im trying to do my own thing. yeah, i wasnt sure if power needed to be its own module or if most cases took care of that from the back. ai is getting pretty advanced right now, and i still wish the admins would consider fine tuning claude 3.7 sonnet to be a total advice and feedback ai chat feature to provide the kinds of hints i was seeking. ...
yeah, but im leaving forever, tho. i will most likely never pick up any eurorack modules.
im used to more active forums. modwiggler doesnt seem like exactly my thing. last post.
im leaving forever. i cant seem to get enough respect about wanting to share my case layout ideas on here. etcetera. ...
yall should check out 'muezig' on youtube, though. he posts new live content regularly, and it really embodies the 'concept' of a unique sound and all-in-one ness that i was looking for yalls feedback on. he could use the engagement. etcetera. ...
peace ✌️
@zacksname i just told you the modules i would get first. i cannot afford them. i just want to post ideas for rack configurations on here as creative stimulation. get a life.
peace ✌️
id want it all at once. if i could only get less at a time, then i would get this all at once:
i just want that perfect improv toy and im not there yet is all, why do you keep asking?
peace ✌️
yes. i would like to have this one, even though the design is not perfect and the clocky is not actually really doing anything:
also, just to include this, too, here is the $30 yoyo:
peace ✌️
yes. im all set up with "arrangements" on a daily, very limited budget, and i spent $30 of my own money on a yoyo from amazon. in fact, that $30 one is almost my fav right now.
why? what of it?
i "cant" save up on my daily spending for a $6,000 eurorack case, etc. so, why ask? etc.
peace ✌️
im just saying. you can get a full 100% workable yoyo for $30. no comparison.
basically.
etc.
peace ✌️
i spent $120 on a yoyo. (it was a gift actually.) a yoyo made of solid titanium can be $500. the $120 was a yoyofriends tachyon, but mostly i use another $80 yoyofriends, a $30 almost no brand amazon thing that plays above its price, and a few cheaper plastic ones so i dont forget how to play on the cheaper ones.
i could ask some person on here; "you spend $36,000 on eurorack modules?" etcetera. ... ...
yoyo is super rewarding. more people should get into it. etcetera. etcetera. ...
peace ✌️
i do. notice how my designs kept making more and more sense after every time i came back over every couple of months, but i have very specific constraints im trying to work inside of, and so, due to issues with things like module availability, yes, my designs could use some improvement.
i still think if this site was a little different then the community here can grow more.
also a whole yoyo is only ever like $200 tops.
peace ✌️
yeah. i can do two combos i invented and am just now starting to work on advanced tricks.
i want to share a direct quote:
"ModularGrid uses so-called cookies to ensure it's so-called functionality. We also use dubious tracking scripts. Find out more in the Privacy Policy. We use cookies and wanna let you know.'
would you trust a website like that?
peace ✌️✌️✌️
i took up unresponsive yoyo, late, maybe, idk, like 5 years ago? and, im being plenty patient with it, not even giving it my full undivided attention, and still making good progress. i do not believe my disposition is as messed up as you think it is. etcetera.
peace ✌️
i dont see why thats important and is almost a little bit too personally identifiable, but: ...
"almost 40".
why do you even want to know?
peace ✌️
cool. im not an admin. im not a dev. im not a writer on modular synthesis. but i have this whole vision for a modulargrid 2.0 with friendly reminders and ai chat assistance,
because, i care about the future of modular synthesis, because, in my fantasy world i have an enormous eurorack 'toy' that i like to play with, and i want more toys, etcetera.
i dont hate this site. i just wish i was seeing more valuable community interactions, etc. because that would grow this hobby, and im thinking maybe a lil ml could seed this. etc.
peace ✌️
nu uh, @zacksname my cult disagrees with you. ... ... i think people just need this site to provide them a gentle reminder about how to think about using this very site. etcetera.
it would be for someone who started looking into eurorack modules for some reason then finds this website and becomes interested in maybe putting together their own case but is overwhelmed with the possibilities that the plethora of options that the design page here provides and it would be designed to catch them just before they give up or accidently purchase something that ends up not suiting them or even just post something on here that is un-feedback-able and to "guide" them toward making choices with good outcomes.
i know the author claims that that book was not actually on the topic of zen, but to be honest i always find reading over it again to be a zen experience, in a personal way, etc.
etc.
peace ✌️
read zen an the art of motorcycle maintenance.
it goes into why its important to figure out why you want to do things before you do them, which is more what i wanted my hypothetical guide for here to cover.
(claude didnt generate exactly what i wanted. my own version might be 5x longer and might include little anecdotes about what to avoid and things that really work.)
peace ✌️
thanks. maybe ill unbox my po-33 k.o., record some samples of things i have on the ready, throw something together in 2 seconds, upload it to youtube, and post it here, just to contribute. (havent decided.)
peace ✌️
i disagree that you must have a vca as its own module to be honest. that modwiggler thread does not go into why you might want to get into modular in the first place or the aesthetics of module selection or how to design something that actually meets your real creative expressive potential needs.
have you read zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance @Dub007 ? that is the book i was trying to reference. if you have not, you might not grok what i have in mind, etc. ...
peace ✌️
im not a child and zacksname is not my teacher. i am not required to 100% love criticism, especially when its not moving me toward my goals. i know how synths work.
peace ✌️
zacksname, i have just one thing to say:
interact with the community.
share ideas.
work toward a module case configuration that 100% suits my concept of how i want to approach eurorack modular from an improv perspective i might pull the trigger on, later.
.
you saw my latest 80hp rack design. ... ... the problem isnt that i dont know how to design a budget case for myself. the problem is that i have very specific taste and "sensibilities".
.
what i really wanted was just more back and forth dialogue about the philosophy of all of eurorack, not just nitpicking about a specific module choices that are a bit non-standard.
.
like, im looking to flex my creativity, because its a muscle i need to work and the po-33 k.o. i have is just not a "heavy" enough weight to feel worth my time right now, and im bored.
.
i shouldnt have to justify why i am looking for feedback on ideas as just ideas, i.m.h.o.
peace ✌️
hey zacksname. if picking up new modules is 100% not a problem for you, then why dont you pick up a strange-r bighat, figure out a patch you can make that has drums covered, and play around with my 'concept' of improvising key changes and, things of that nature, as part of a live performance semi random flow zone you can try to get into, and then get back to me if there really is no fruit to be picked in my "totally self contained band in a box instrument" idea.
its not impossible for me to pick up modules. i just need the perfect concept before i do so.
i dont mind feedback if its constructive, etc.
peace ✌️
so, youd prefer i just unbox my po-33 k.o. and only talk about that, ever? nah. id rather dream big. im an ideas guy. rick rubin didnt need to buy his own guitar to produce system of a down. what if one of my ideas turns into a new module that helps the whole entire community? designing rack configurations is fun to me. i dont want to limit my creativity to only todays budget.
peace ✌️
ive messed around with pd (pure data) and own a po-33 k.o. that im not even motivated to unbox. i just 'yearn' for that perfect improv canvas that totally matches my own aesthetic sensibilities, and the thing is, before i can have that, i barely have any interest in picking up modules or messing with other softwares, just to explain myself.
theres like this whole studio i have for myself, in my head, and im just not that interested in trying to build anyone elses studio in reality. 'i know what im doing'.
i just came on here to mess with design.
peace ✌️
(edit)
just installed hexen, just to check it out, and it actually seems pretty cool, but i have enough trouble trying to navigate websites and type out messages on this android phone, and trying to operate a full modular synth from the same interface is just way too much total overwhelm for me, but thanks.
((peace ✌️))
im just a dude with too much free time on an android phone. i do want to get into modular synthesis, but my life is all messed up right now. i just want to be taken seriously that im trying to move the community forward and not be given a hard time about having ideas that are different.
peace ✌️
