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I am interested in moving into Eurorack and am looking for critical feedback on my setup design so far.

My Goals: I am a hobbyist with some experience with synthesis. My current gear includes Synthstrom Audible Deluge, PO-33, and a Keystep. I enjoy song-making but am self-taught and my efforts are not yet notable. I enjoy the spectrum of EDM and IDM. Sound design is where my interest in modular primarily comes from, and my thinking for now is to use the Deluge and/or PO-33 for drums, the Deluge for an additional option for sequencing, etc... BUT! I have been pretty inspired by Ricky Tinez's minimalist 62HP/4U setups, and would love to play with sound design, create a happy accident then add some drums and jam for a while. Ultimately I know I want rich sounds play with and good options to modify and shape and reshape the sounds.

I chose a larger case than I think I need (seems to be common feedback here) but am not attached to the case size. Someday I might make my own, but most likely will start off with either an Intellijel (I have a pared down version of the above that will fit into their 4U/62HP Palette (using nRings and a 1u Steppy instead of PNW and a couple other sacrifices) or more likely I will stick with this design and have found some cases on Etsy and/or something like the Dopefer A-100P6 or Erica Synths 6u (super open to case-recommendations if you have any).

Here's what I think I've collected.
* 2x VCOs (and I am pretty enamored with both the Rings and Loquelic)
* 2x Sequencers (I really like how the Mimetic can randomize to create new rhythmic textures; and Pamela's seems to be a versatile module with many applications) (note: the Deluge has 4x gate-out and 2x cv-out in addition to midi out/in)
* 4x Filters (2x Clep Diaz, Filthy LPF/HPF/BPF, and 0chd)
* 2x ADSR envelopes/VCAs
* 2x quantizers to keep the sounds in-scale (do i need these?)
* 1x 4-channel mixer with L/R out
* 1x USB/din Midi

Please offer opinions! I am new to this and my local synth-shop is not open to the public due to COVID. You are my only hope, modulargrid-won kenobi!

EDITED Jun 24th 2020, 19:04

https://m.soundcloud.com/jingo-f/fall-asleep

thanks for listening

hi there
ive been having fun watching videos and learning recently, but i think i've hit a point where feedback would be useful
i dont have any of this so far, and i have a few questions.. hope this isn't frustrating for regular users. im not planning to build anything soon but i thought itd be good to hear others thoughts on what ive been picturing in my head
i'd like to build towards a 7u 104hp intellijel case, and i'd like to do it slowly. but i also wanted to have an idea in mind to work towards, and look forward to (obviously subject to change..)
i would be planning to sequence with a squarp pyramid hence the lack of sequencing in the case, and that would be the primary use of the fh-2. i haven't included something like Scales for that reason as well, but is that a mistake? most effects processing would be taking place externally but i thought between the disting and the springray id have some good options in the case as well.

i like the idea of having a complete voice to begin with and love the sound of the atlantis/sh-101.. the harmonic oscillator a totally different approach which appeals as well. id like to be working with interesting resonances, harmonics, textures and timbre in addition to conventionally melodic ideas, with the possibility to work with chords. the two filters seem very different and it seems like id get a lot out of the belgrad self oscillating. i thought i probably had noise source covered between the atlantis and the disting? rings is in the case primarily to work with external instrument signals
is there anything here that would be completely redundant? im wondering if maths, batumi and planar2 are all necessary, and i was wondering if id find it useful to have something like Mutamix in the case..
would it be more useful for me to have the synth voices and oscillators in the bottom row, and the utilities/function generators in the top by the 1u modules?

Cool and soothing, as always!
As far, as I understand, you changed your mind about selling me Soma FX? :)

I'll try to see if we can get @modulargrid to make the Panel Selector option more apparent. It would solve a lot of issues I think if more people started using it.

Using the Panel Selector doesn't change the image for everyone. Editing a module and adding yet another image does, BUT the users can then use the Panel Selector to go back to the previous panel they had. It's still there so it's not so much of a problem.

I know how this works. But you're right, it may be irritating for other users. Especially those who don't know about the panel selector. Not really a problem, though. At least not as much as dozens of duplicates.

Use the Panel Selector feature.

Duplicating modules is something we should be avoiding not indulging. How many instances of Monsoon or Clouds are really needed? 15 Monsoons? Really? Would it hurt to use a different black/silver/white/xxx panel instead of the one you own? Can't you upload it in private if you really need yet another alternative? Do you really need anything more than the power specs for a module you have in private?

But doesn't that change the default image for everyone? While I wished people would stop adding separate "whatever panel" versions to the database, I'm not sure the current implementation is sufficient. Or am I missing something?
-- senor-bling

Using the Panel Selector doesn't change the image for everyone. Editing a module and adding yet another image does, BUT the users can then use the Panel Selector to go back to the previous panel they had. It's still there so it's not so much of a problem.

Having the same module 10+ times is more of a problem, so if you really have to choose, it's better to edit an existing version than adding yet another iteration of the same. Unless it's a different manufacturer (e.g. some of the clones have different manufacturers, meh), so pay attention.

At some point I'll merge most "Other / Unknown" duplicates into one and write "USE PANEL SELECTOR" in the description :)

EDITED Jun 23rd 2020, 09:31

Done.

Hello,
i'm looking for modcan A modules, if you want to get rid of few ones, please let me know
Best

Made a new sketch based on drones, pads and strings.
I continue to study delicate distortion of Soma Lyra8 FX module.
The solo string part is from Intellijel Plonk.
A significant role here plays pitch shifting from Happy Nerding FX Aid.
Better to listen with headphones at high volume.

Interesting thread!
And thanks to Chaos215bar2 (what a lovely name :) for having posted his comment and making rise the subject again.

'...I'll pause videos just to stop and work out what's going on (and look at what modules they're using), and videos with cables going offscreen the whole time are a big turn off for me...' (chaos215bar2).
Same method... and print screens, and notes :))

Ok, I need to think a bit before returning with something useful here... See you soon.

Too many people watching Youtube videos and liking the sounds that they are hearing but not doing enough research into HOW those sounds are actually being generated. There's such an unsexy side to Eurorack consisting of a lot of modules doing utility work so a few featured modules can do their thing. That's always glossed over in demos with those modules off screen or connected via a maze of patch cables. Anyone who's not familiar with the Eurorack ecosystem would just assume that the featured modules are all that's needed to get "that sound" as if each module was its own synthesizer rather than being a module.
-- Ronin1973

Just came across this thread, and wanted to throw a little encouragement all of your way.

1) The guide you're proposing sounds awesome.

2) I found the quote above kind of amusing. It's these flashy videos that got me interested, but more often than not, what's most interesting to me is everything else going on to drive the module they're showing off. I'll pause videos just to stop and work out what's going on (and look at what modules they're using), and videos with cables going offscreen the whole time are a big turn off for me.

Your audience is out there, even if they're not the ones making the most noise. (And just for the record, all my racks are purely conceptual at this point, even if I think a couple of them are pretty decent.)

EDITED Jun 23rd 2020, 03:56

Thanks for the help @defragmenteur and @lugia. It seems like this might not be an easy fix for my at my beginner stage. Ill look around the city to see if I can find some local help. Feel free to link me to some helpful youtube videos that might be able to walk me through the process.

Ambient has become such a wide concept nowadays... But the importance of space (by means of depth and panning) seems to remain quite constant. So, if this can help, two remarks:

Beyond uBurst/Clouds and some Disting algorithms (Btw I do approve Defragmenteur), it seems to lack of reverb/delay, or some more sophisticated fx here. Do you plan to use any pedals (blueSky, Afterneath, etc.) or other external fx?

How do you mix? External gear? Software? So about panning: same questions... But a little stereo mixer inside the rack (I personally use a Doepfer A-138s including for control signals) could be a convenient submixer in any way.

DO NOT attempt to align or scale a VCO without appropriate test gear! Sure, you might be able to get the VCO in the ballpark as far as tracking goes, but unless you have access to a multimeter and a frequency counter (or its software equivalent), you're likely to have a very frustrating experience. You'll first need to make sure that a 1V step actually IS 1V by finding an initial reference voltage, then going up an octave; never discount the possibility that the A-111-2 is actually RIGHT and that other things are the mistracking culprits...make sure of this before doing anything else.

For the money, my bet would be on the Takaab 2Multi. $34-ish, dual 1-in/3-out. These are simple circuits, no need to pay a premium for them.

However, keep in mind that unless you're trying to feed a single CV to more than 3 or 4 modules, which has the potential to cause voltage sag and detuning, you can make do with a regular passive mult. Buffered mults are for correcting that sag issue when you're trying to get several VCOs, VCFs, etc under that single CV control, but if that's not an issue, they're just spendy.

Also, if the above is the case AND you're doing a smaller-sized build, you should probably avoid mults that take up panel space altogether, and use inline mults, stackcables, etc. In builds that range from 2 x 104hp and smaller, your panel space is better used for actual functions; anything you can remove from that will open up space for more active modules.

Yeah, well, that's all Mults, not just buffered.

The best value is probably the Intellijel Buff Mult 1U. But, like it says, you need a 1U row for that.
The Doepfer buffered mults are rather cheap, but occupy 4HP. Erica Synths have a Pico 3HP one. Personally, I think in 3U land, a buffered mult really shouldn't be more than 2HP wide. So the cheapest option there is DIY. If that's for you, check out a DIY store in your country and build yourself one. That's the best value. Other than that, maybe go with Malekko or Intellijel.

:-)

Glad to hear that you managed to get one of your dreams come through and can work on the next one on your list, well done!

Hi Farkas,

He, he, nice effects and funny video, very creative!

Ha, ha, after thousand years or so people find this back on an electronic scrapyard and they feel by then pity there is so less left of the video material; not knowing you did this on purpose ;-)

Looking forward to your next creativity! Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Broken-Form,

You can find all that information on this ModularGrid.net website :-)

Go to Modules site then at function select Multiple and below click on Price to have it sorted by price :-) Or to make it even easier, here the below link should do all that already:

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/modules/browser?SearchName=&SearchVendor=&SearchFunction=14&SearchSecondaryfunction=&SearchHeight=&SearchTe=&SearchTemethod=max&SearchBuildtype=&SearchLifecycle=&SearchSet=all&SearchMarketplace=&SearchIsmodeled=0&SearchShowothers=0&order=price&direction=desc

383 of them, so still a bit to search for :-) Putting a filter on a few of your favourite brands or HP width should narrow down that a bit.

Good luck with the multiples and kind regards, Garfield Modular.

@damir501 sold me a broken module then refused to give me a refund or even look at a video of the fault.

im looking for 1 maybe 2 buffered mult modules.whats the best value for money out there??

Thank you very much, I'm thrilled you enjoyed it! Not sure I'll go through the mixing and matering process again given the cost, but it was so worth it to do it at least once. I can now cross this off my bucket list.

I can't recommend Hugo Paris for mixing enough, and of course, Nathan Moody at Obsidian Sound for mastering.

Adjustment procedure can be found in the technical manual. Can be intimidating if you never done that before so maybe someone who build modules in your area can calibrate it for you.

Thank you, GarfieldModular. I appreciate you taking the time to give some solid advice. I will be checking back in soon...

Hey! Quick question. I am having trouble matching my pitch of my A-111-2 VCO to other oscillators that I have. I am using a Beats Step Pro to sequence it, and it is not follow pitch very well! Does anyone have any advice for me getting the pitch to follow a typical 1V/oct? My Rings Modular follows the Beats Step Pro fine, so I know the problem lies with the A-111-2 VCO. I am going straight from BSP to the VCO to out. Tested with different VCOs and only this one has the problem.

Some abrasive improvised modular drums with an accompanying analog glitch video I put together today. Should have mixed the bass a little higher, but whatever... It was recorded on the fly.

Hi Aphew Goodman,

Wow, that's super cool! I love the percussions in this track, however beside your nice percussions, the other sounds, those make me smile and here and there I had to laugh :-) It doesn't happen many times that I have to laugh during listening music (which I do see positively) but you can make that happen! So many nice and happy sonic surprises in your music!

Well done and kind regards, Garfield.

@lugia thanks for your response. Good to know you are sticking with Hosa.

Hi Sunchylde,

Holy smoke! You got tons of albums already released with fantastic music! I am listening now at your Modular Synth Jams, lovely music. The next time when you do a concert please let me know, if I can make it, I will try to be there. Not a promise but I will give it a try.

Thanks a lot for sharing that link on bandcamp! Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Lugia,

Since you took care of your speaker cables, I am already less worried :-)

And of course spending hundreds or thousands for cables or certain equipment but still having somewhere a "weak" device in the loop, then that doesn't make sense indeed. But something tells me that you took care of that too ;-)

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Frenchili,

You are welcome.

It's difficult to advice you on "is it not worth it to expand on the o-coast"... For one, I don't know you well enough and your current setup though you gave me already a good idea of it, on the other hand... of course Eurorack is a lot of fun but before the fun comes you need to really go deep into it with reading, checking, investigating the pros and cons, just a lot of home work to do. Since you actually already got such a nice equipment, is that really want you need and/or want? I think you should ask yourself that very honestly.

Don't get me wrong here, I don't want you to move away from Eurorack but with your current nice setup you really need to be sure that you want to go into Eurorack because it just doesn't come cheap and I don't want that you spent several thousands on Eurorack and after a year or so being frustrated with what it provided you. It might not go that way, you might love it like hell like I do. So there is, to copy someone's phrase here, no right or no wrong, either way will work out.

I don't know how good you know the Zoia already? With the Zoia you can do a lot what you can do in Eurorack as well but in a much smaller device, much, much cheaper than Eurorack. So why not diving a bit deeper in Zoia first (in case you haven't yet) and then ask yourself again: "Okay I love the Zoia, I like what I can do with it but here and there it might have limitations, so am I now ready for Eurorack?" And if then the answer is yes, yeah go for it :-)

Sorry, can't advice you much here, you need to figure that out for yourself and answer yourself that question.

Above all, take your sweet time for that, don't force yourself, at the end the most important part is that we enjoy it :-)

Good luck with the decision and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Jeff,

Yeah fully understand your point 1 now. Point 2, yes, control centre might be still right here and indeed the MiniBrute 2S can be used for that. Point 3, ok, understood; as well as point 4.

Okay fair enough, you use the MiniBrute 2S in a way I used the Neutron (from Behringer) and it's similar like your situation that it has 2 VCOs, a filter, 2 EGs and (only) 1 LFO but please keep in mind that once you go for your Eurorack that you usually not using everything from that Hybrid Modular system (i.e. your MiniBrute or mine Neutron). I still use once and a while the LFO and the two VCOs, but that's usually it.

So your plan is clearer now and from that point of view it's okay. I still do think that 2 * 88 - 5 HP = 171 HP in total is going to be a bit too less on the medium/long run, on the other hand I have seen a beautiful setup here who does the same as you the Minibrute connected to an empty rack of Aturia. It goes quite nice together indeed and it looks pretty nice, so from that point totally understood. But please don't be surprised that after a year or so you will start considering a second rack ;-)

Still my advice stands to not buy everything in one go, instead do it step by step, a few modules in one-go as a maximum, get some experience and understand the modules you bought and then add some more, etcetera.

Yeah go for it, have fun with it and if you have particular questions about modules or other stuff just shout.

Good luck, Garfield.

Edit: removed typo.

EDITED Jun 22nd 2020, 20:56

Actually, I went through all of that decades ago back in Nashville, when the whole "super-premium wire" thing got up to steam. Like a lot of other engineers down there, I did those A/B tests...and like a lot of other engineers down there, I didn't see a qualitative difference that would translate into something that would justify the prices. The problem is this: no matter how high-end your own stuff is, what you're creating will be pumped through lowest-common-denominator playback gear 99% of the time. So if you get a small incremental benefit, this then gets wiped out at the consumer end, or when it gets uploaded to a content aggregator that uses mediocre compression algorithms.

But with speaker cables, there IS a major difference that you gain from stepping up your wire gauges, having a higher amount of conductors in the cable, etc. Big wire = less resistance, which lets your amp loaf a little better, which means it's not being overtaxed by big transients. And lots of little conductors in the wire means that the higher frequencies have more "skin" to move along, since "skin effect" is gradually more important the higher you go in frequency. And this one is something you DO benefit from, since monitor clarity is critical to knowing what you're doing. But there's a BIG difference between a line level or synth level signal and the output of a power amp...higher voltages, more current, etc, so reducing the resistance has a payoff at the amplifier levels, but you lose some of that benefit at lower signal levels as you're not trying to pump a massive signal through a tiny wire there.

So while I do advocate cheaper cables for line level signals, I use 14 and 12ga fine-stranded speaker lines here, with the gauge depending on the amp power (the Crest FA601 gets the 12s...it has a VERY high slewing rate, and clearly prefers driving a load with the bigger conductors). No voodoo or hype there, though...just good ol' basic EE at work.

Drums by Disting Ex (SD Multisample algo.), wailing synth by Mangrove. Also starring were: Rossum Morpheus, Divkid-Instruo ochd, Instruo Céis, Mimeophon, Erbe-Verb, Pam's NWO, o_C, Wogglebug, Maths...

Hi Garfield !

Thank you very much for your honest opinion and for the advises !

So if I understood you correctly you think it is not worth it to expand on the 0-coast ? Of course I want to go full modular at some point and get a nice case with VCOs, VCAs, etc. but as you said I would like to start simple. That's why I thought adding some extra functions to the 0-coast like an additional voice such as plaits that I could mix into the balance section of the 0-coast or getting stages for modulations could be a nice introduction and learning experience.

Thank you very much for your insights.

Yes, it's rather old school indeed ;) The early Jarre is a big number in my books for sure...

If you want here's a lot more on my bandcamp: https://suryakrispeters.bandcamp.com

There's one modular EP for free DL (or donation). More in the future ...

Cheers :)

EDITED Jun 21st 2020, 15:08

Absolutely spot on!!! I had it hooked up like this initially, but hadn't heard the envelope properly as I had it too open! Thanks again!

The CV Ins on the TQ is the Level input of each channel.

Gate goes to ADSR Gate Input,
ADSR Env out goes to TQ Level of ChX
Audio Goes to TQ In of ChX
ChX (or Mix) Out is the result

EDITED Jun 21st 2020, 12:12

Hey folks,

I am trying to create a simple synth voice...I have these modules sitting in a Niftycase with a Din Sync RE303 sending MIDI (which the Nifty converts to CV and gate), while I can play notes no problem, I just cannot get the ADSR to work...I am assuming the Tangle Quartet is the issue as it does not have a CV in?

https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_401192.jpg

Any assistance greatly appreciated!!!

Thanks

Stewart.

Thanks for replying (and the welcome), GarfieldModular - I really do appreciate it.

A few things:
1. The Minibrute would be in it's original case with the RackBrute 6u attached. That is just for display purposes.
2. What I mean by control center is keyboard and sequencer - maybe control center isn't the right word.
3. The RackBrute is 88hp, though one row needs a 5 hp power unit leaving 83 hp in that row...
4. I agree about the oscilloscope (and speaker). While they are somewhat important to my final vision, space will be too high of a commodity with only 6u.

What I like about the MiniBrute is that for $450, it gives me not only a nice sequencer and a mediocre keyboard, but also 2 vco's, a vcf, 2 EGs (AD & ADSR), and 2 LFOs. I also like that it is attached to the 6u system so it's one cohesive unit.
I think my new plan is to start with this set-up (MiniBrute 2s attached to RackBrute 6U with shuttle system), but to be prepared down the road to expand to two 6u Rack brutes for a total of 12u (that attach together) (342 hp after power units). What do you think of that plan?

Hi Baltergeist,

That's great, one complete album! The Tides you let us start with is a nice kind of ambient track I like but then I peak at Automata and what you deliver there is one big impressive piece of music, wow! I like that song the most I think.

Calling is pretty nice too, I like the effects there. Having said that, Cuttlefish is for me the track with the most pleasant and interesting sound surprises and you finishing off the album with the more experimental Rounding a Digital Cape.

Nice work you got there! I look forward in hearing more from you and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Sunchylde,

Wow, this is some serious fantastic stuff! It's so nice :-)

At the beginning I heard some JM Jarre stuff then you moved over to Tangerine Dream kind of sequencing stuff and at the end I had a bit of a Klaus Schulze feeling, all my favourites :-)

I could easily listen to many more of such material, so keep it coming and thank you very much for sharing this with us.

Kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Wishbonebrewery,

Oh, that's a beautiful demo! Thank you very much for that, so nice to hear the 103 in action here!

Now you have played a few times with the 103, do you miss those CV inputs (hence 104) or are you happy with your choice because of the easier user interface?

I look forward in hearing your next demo :-) Kind regards, Garfield.

For me it's a test function module. If the function is cool I will buy a dedicated module. Actually its' my tuner.

EDITED Jun 21st 2020, 11:55

Great, thank you for the advice.
This module is like a Swiss army knife.
I guess I'll buy a two or double version.
I suspect you can build the whole setup only with these modules.

Hi Mowse,

Yeah, that's good, that's nice :-)

I don't get it... when I receive a new module I read the manual first, one day gone ;-) Then try to install it in the rack another day gone because I blow the fuse because the red strip was connected wrong, so the next days I spend on buying a new rack and new modules that I manage to blow up. Then after perhaps a month or so, I would be happy if I get one tone out of a new module...
Okay, I am overdoing this here "a little bit" ;-) But you get the point I guess.

But you? You get the module the evening before and the next day you got already a video with a fantastic sound ready for us! That's great! I am just jealous ;-)

Keep up the nice demos and kind regards, Garfield.

Hi Lugia,

I don't know the brands Mogami and Gotham Audio stuff but if you take for example Audio Quest and you go to a HiFi shop and ask them to demo the cheapest audio cable of Audio Quest for you and the most expensive one of also Audio Quest; perhaps add a mid range cable from the same brand too. Just to get an idea of the difference between them then you seriously wouldn't believe your ears. I just recently (Autumn 2019) heard a demo for power cables for audio devices, not even the usual audio speaker cables, no just the power cables, just the standard strip that's packed with the device (amplifier for example) and the top line of Audio Quest (I think that cable costed Euro 60+k for just one cable! I know totally ridiculous) and a few of their (Audio Quest) mid line cables.

The funny thing was when they started to demo with the cheapest cable and after that the next (low) range power cable, you didn't hear much of a difference and you thought: "What a nonsense, I don't hear much difference and pay a few hundred for just a cable?" BS (bullshit)! Same for that next level from low level to medium level cable (around thousand plus), still didn't hear much difference and people started to walk away because they felt that was so much BS they couldn't believe it. I decide to stay a bit longer and took one of the places in the middle of the stereo spot where just a few people left (because where I stand before wasn't very good but the room was full, the demo's of that person are well known here in Germany from Stereo magazine). Then up to the top level cable, yes you could here a bit but of course that's not worth that 60k.

But now it comes... then they went back from the 60k cable to that "cheap" included cable that came with the device, suddenly the difference was so huge, you had to puke to listen to that standard cable. Technically almost can't be explained but there can be a huge difference. That 60k cable was a kind of fun but of course not realistic for most of the people so they went back to a mid range cable and then back to the standard cable and going back in quality you can hear the difference much better than the other way round.

Hence the same for audio cables.

The problem is that like me, you and billions of other people, you just don't want to believe it, it's technically difficult to explain (well one of the explanations is the copper quality, it's close to 100% copper that is ridiculous expensive and the insulation is complicated and expensive too) and you just can't understand it. But please do yourself a favour and go to a HiFi shop and ask for a Audio Quest cable demo (or any audio top brand but Audio Quest most HiFi shops have) and after that, I am sure, you will update your above comment :-) No, please don't be stubborn, just go to a HiFi shop and follow a demo ;-)

But for your wallet it's better to keep believing this is all BS and don't do that demo, because once you have heard that it can be better, you also want that few hundred or few thousands cable and you are seriously thinking of selling your house... so... yeah better don't do that demo ;-) It's better for your wallet!

But of course for a patch cable that's not all worth it, I agree. However for your speaker cables you might want to check this out.

Kind regards, Garfield.

Buy a disting. It can do side chain compression, envelope follower and 88 more functions. It's a must have if you want to test different functions before buying dedicated modules.

Side chain compression

Envelope follower

EDITED Jun 21st 2020, 01:17

I was thinking about the compression module with the sidechain option.
I also miss envelop follower, it's probably useful with drums.
Probably also maths but as I said I am at the beginning of the road in the modular world

Here is new screen shot with updated modules
https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/modulargrid_1247083.jpg
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SCREEN UPDATED

EDITED Jun 21st 2020, 00:59